First Private ER Opens in Canada

[LoungeMachine]

First private emergency room opens
Dec. 1, 2006. 05:40 PM
CANADIAN PRESS


VANCOUVER — Canada's first private clinic to treat emergency patients has opened against a backdrop of opposition and a strong government warning the for-profit facility could be shut down if it's illegally charging for services already paid for under the public system.

"We've got a wonderful thing here," Dr. Gordon Bird, the facility's medical director, boasted today before leading several packs of media on tours of the clinic.

Bird is among 24 doctors who work in emergency departments around the Vancouver area and are also employed by the Urgent Care Centre, which treats broken limbs, lacerations and other conditions requiring "prompt attention."

Bird also works in the emergency department of Delta Hospital.

"That's one of the principles of our organization, that all physicians continue to practise in the public system," he said while conducting the tour.

"Isn't that dual practice, Dr. Bird?" asked a reporter.

"We'll continue, we'll have more questions later," said Bird, appearing flustered.

Prime Minister Stephen Harper has chastised an Alberta government proposal of so-called dual practice that would allow physicians to bill the government for public funds while also making money from private facilities.

"Dual practice creates conflict of interest for physicians as there would be a financial incentive for them to stream patients into the private portion of their practice," Harper said in an April 3 letter to Alberta Premier Ralph Klein.

"Furthermore, dual practice legitimizes queue-jumping as it provides an approved mechanism for patients to pay to seek treatment at the front of the line," Harper said.

B.C. Health Minister George Abbott is warning of potential legal troubles for the clinic if it is in violation of the Canada Health Act because it charges for services covered under medicare.

On Thursday, the government proclaimed legislative amendments giving the Medical Services Commission the power to audit the centre and seek an injunction to shut it down.

But Carole James, leader of the Opposition NDP, said Abbott could have prevented the clinic from opening in the first place if he hadn't ignored a letter Godley sent to his ministry in January about his plans for the facility.

"All of Canada should be watching British Columbia right now, and watching and paying attention, because in my view British Columbia has a lesson to tell the other provinces," James said.

"And that lesson is here's what happens when a government neglects our public health-care system and basically has opened the door to private providers and you do end up with two kinds of health care — health care for those who can pay and health care for the rest of us."

Abbott has said he doesn't know what happened to the letter Godley sent and that the matter is being investigated.

James said Abbott has been blindsided on several other issues, including queue-jumping by people who paid for their own MRIs instead of waiting for the procedure in the public system.

Dr. Mark Godley, the operator of the "state-of-the-art" 10-bed clinic, has said the clinic will help ease overcrowding in emergency wards where people have to wait too long for treatment.

Godley did not speak to reporters as the clinic opened, apparently on advice from his lawyers.

His representative, Sherry Wiebe, insisted the centre meets all the legal requirements, not only provincial accreditation but city zoning and licensing regulations.

"We're on safe, sound legal ground and our counsellors, our lawyers, will speak to that," she said, declining to provide names of any lawyers.

"Everybody is aware that there are some questions about the legalities and we've got legal counsel, as does the government, and they're all looking at these concerns together," she said.

Wiebe focused on the $10-million facility's equipment, saying the clinic will have an advanced MRI, the first of its kind to be used in a clinic in Canada.

James Green, who made a failed bid for mayor of Vancouver, walked into the clinic just as one group of reporters was finishing a tour.

"I don't believe these types of illegal clinics should be open in British Columbia," Green said as he accused Wiebe of pushing him.

"These people are lawyered up with all kinds of cash and are able to do this only because the government's afraid of the law," he said.

"They shouldn't be open until we are sure that they, in every way, meet the standards of the Canada Health Act."

The Urgent Care Centre charges a range of fees for various procedures, including an evaluation fee of $199 and $50 for blood tests and $70 to set a cast.

Dr. James Woollard, spokesman for Canadian Doctors for Medicare, said the facility creates a class system for the wealthy.

"This is not just scare mongering," Woollard said. "This is exactly what's happened in Australia, it's exactly what's happened in Britain."

Woollard said he disagrees with Godley that the clinic will provide faster access to health care for everyone if patients are bypassing emergency departments and coming to his clinic for urgent conditions.

"People may get closer to the front of the line but the line will be slowed down," Woollard said, adding Godley's poaching of doctors from emergency wards means there will be fewer physicians in the public system.

Woollard also called on the federal government to enforce the Canada Health Act, which he said was established in the late 1960s to provide fairness for everyone.

"It comes down to a fundamental issue, that we believe as a nation that people's access to care should be dependent upon what they need and now how much money they have," he said.

So far, there are no consequences for provinces interpreting the Canada Health Act as they please, Woollard said.

"The Godley example that we have here is so obviously a step too far if it proves to be what it seems to be."

Federal Health Minister Tony Clement was not available for comment.

His spokesman, Erik Waddell, said it's a provincial responsibility to investigate whether any such clinic is violating the Canada Health Act.

"We are very much in favour of the Canada Health Act being enforced across this country in every province and being enforced equally," Waddell said.

"We do have confidence, though, that George Abbott is doing everything in his power that the Canada Health Act isn't being breached in this case."

[DrMaddVibe]

Socialized medicine...HA!

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by DrMaddVibe
Socialized medicine...HA!

We have socialized medicine in this country, mensa.

Were you unaware?

[DrMaddVibe]

Yeah halfwit, but not to the low levels that Canada has or that Hillary wanted!

[blonddgirl777]

Beware of socialized Medicine!!!
Things CAN go wrong... very wrong...

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by DrMaddVibe
Socialized medicine...HA!




Originally posted by DrMaddVibe
Yeah halfwit, but not to the low levels that Canada has or that Hillary wanted!


Then what does your first post even mean? :rolleyes:

Think before you post sometimes....:cool:

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by DrMaddVibe
Yeah halfwit, but not to the low levels that Canada has or that Hillary wanted!

I went to a "Free/Medicare" hospital in S-F... not because I didn't have insurance but because I wanted to see what everybody was complaining about...
Trust ME, Medicare ain't so bad!

Reallity is that here, people that have *money fly to Boston, N-Y or Europe to get operated and treated...


* Unfortunately... one needs LOTS of money...

[DrMaddVibe]

You halfwitted fuck!

Even a Canadian posted in here about the evils of their medical system and YOU still don't get it!

I implore you to go to ANY border state with Canada and look at the license plates in ANY hospital parking lot. They take up almost 70% of the parking spaces!!!

Now why do YOU suppose that is? You have the audacity to call me mensa when YOU don't even know a real healthcare crisis!

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
... Think before you post sometimes....:cool:

Haaaa... I'm having cofee and that subject gets me all worked up...
Ho, you're not eaven talking to me!
I should think before posting... :p

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by DrMaddVibe
... real healthcare crisis!

I am more scared of having to go to a hospital in this province than of the hillness itself!

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by DrMaddVibe
... They take up almost 70% of the parking spaces!!!...

The E.R. is a hang out spot for a lot of bored (not eaven sick) elderlies, wellfare lazy ass and people who just want a paid day off... :rolleyes:

[blonddgirl777]

Haaaa... got to go.... I'm gonna get sick!

[LoungeMachine]

Here's my point.....

YES OR NO.

Shouldn't universal healthcare be a basic BIRTHRIGHT, if not at least a high priority of the world's richest nation??????

We have socialized police, fire, and military defenses. Why? Because we believe every citizen has the right to be protected.

We have "socialized medicine" for select groups in this country. Let's at least make CHILDREN one of those select groups.

Because of the way our Health System is set up now, many cannot afford basic healthcare. And I think that is a crime.

[DrMaddVibe]

STFU mensa halfwit!

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by DrMaddVibe
You halfwitted fuck!

Even a Canadian posted in here about the evils of their medical system and YOU still don't get it!

I implore you to go to ANY border state with Canada and look at the license plates in ANY hospital parking lot. They take up almost 70% of the parking spaces!!!

Now why do YOU suppose that is? You have the audacity to call me mensa when YOU don't even know a real healthcare crisis!


Oh, now I see your point....

If Canada can't get it right, well then we're fucked :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


I LIVE in a border state, moron. I know much more about this than you do. :rolleyes:

Do you think Canada is the leader in this field?

Do some research between oil changes today, skippy.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by DrMaddVibe
STFU mensa halfwit!


LMAO

It's Monday.

Don't you have a job or something you need to go to?

:D

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by DrMaddVibe
STFU mensa halfwit!

First page and you're already out of original insults?

lame as usual.


What do you even know about the thread topic, bright eyes?

[LoungeMachine]

Sweden's infant mortality rate is 1/3 of the US, with socialized medicine.

Our own healthcare system is corrupt.

Pharmaceutical companies and the insurance industry are ripping off the system with the HELP of our government.

[DrMaddVibe]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Shouldn't universal healthcare be a basic BIRTHRIGHT, if not at least a high priority of the world's richest nation??????


We are not the richest nation in the world, and there's no monarchy in this nation. One has unalienable rights to the way our nation governs. We don't have birthrights. Save that for Queen Elizabeth!



Originally posted by LoungeMachine
We have socialized police, fire, and military defenses. Why? Because we believe every citizen has the right to be protected.

We pay taxes for these things.


Originally posted by LoungeMachine
We have "socialized medicine" for select groups in this country. Let's at least make CHILDREN one of those select groups.

The "socialized medicine" system is corrupt and abused by immigrants and leeches too lazy to educate and support themselves.


Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Because of the way our Health System is set up now, many cannot afford basic healthcare. And I think that is a crime.

This is not a problem that anyone wants the government to fix.

[DrMaddVibe]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Oh, now I see your point....

If Canada can't get it right, well then we're fucked :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


I LIVE in a border state, moron. I know much more about this than you do. :rolleyes:

Do you think Canada is the leader in this field?

Do some research between oil changes today, skippy.

Then drive your ass through the parking lot of any major hospital! If you truly live close to the border of Canada that is.

Canada took a bold step into a failed liberal approach that a government can take care of a person from cradle to grave. They can't.

Sounds like you want to suck off Big Brother!:eek:

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
...If Canada can't get it right, well then we're fucked :rolleyes: :rolleyes: ... Do you think Canada is the leader in this field?...

Sorry but I have to NOT mind my own business here... :D

Sure, you guys could get it right... and yes, it is a crime that not everybody (especially children) can afford to get proper medical care.
I sure hope that we are not the leaders or role models in this field because humanity is fucked!

According to Doctors and other medical workers, in Europe, they have it figured out much better. They know how to invest their money properly.

BUT Make sure that you get it right!

Make sure you can afford to pay your specialists properly. One other down side of our socialized medecine is that people studdy that field here (with the big financial help of our gvnmts) and go to work anywherelse, where they can make decent money and get their 8 years (minimum) worth... So we are stucked with "what's left" and have a lack of specialists. The best of the crops are all moving to the U-S and Europe.

One good solution is to still keep at the same time, a private system for those who can afford it. That's what we need, here.

The U-S is still a rich country and for sure, they can figure out how to make things a little more equal for everybody!

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
... Our own healthcare system is corrupt...

Be careful... the more money you give your gvmnt (out of your wallet) to play with...
The more corruption there will be!

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by DrMaddVibe
...The "socialized medicine" system is corrupt and abused by immigrants and leeches too lazy to educate and support themselves...

That's true but don't forget the growing population of elderlies (not the bored hang out ones) that totally diserve to be treated for "free"...

And although we have a vast amount of too lazy ones that suck up the system (thanks to another bad $ administration), not everybody who couldn't afford medecine is lazy...

The average salary in our province is 40K/year... that's the price of a by pass surgery!

[DrMaddVibe]

Originally posted by blonddgirl777
That's true but don't forget the growing population of elderlies (not the bored hang out ones) that totally diserve to be treated for "free"...

And although we have a vast amount of too lazy ones that suck up the system (thanks to another bad $ administration), not everybody who couldn't afford medecine is lazy...

The average salary in our province is 40K/year... that's the price of a by pass surgery!

I'm not saying that the abuse is totally the problem. There's blame to go around, but I don't see how ANY government entity can be held as some Santa father figure to dole out whatever everyone needs for free for one's entire life.

If you want healthcare here in the US...get medicaid, your own private plan or one that your employer uses OR there's the one that our politicians use and don't pay ANY taxes on that douchemachine thinks they're entitled to because he wants to keep voting in the same liberal stooges that rip off the system!

Another avenue is that doctors and hospitals were being sued for bullshit reasons and their insurance had to go up. I'm not saying that they shouldn't be sued, but I would hope that there would be a just and fair amount associated with the damages. Doctors and lawyers do a decent job of weeding out the bad ones within their craft, but innocent's pay the price.

Also, like you stated...people are living longer putting a strain on our government system. Seems like they didn't think that plan all the way through, but then again they NEVER invested the money...it sits there like a piggybank!

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by DrMaddVibe
I'm not saying that the abuse is totally the problem. There's blame to go around, but I don't see how ANY government entity can be held as some Santa father figure to dole out whatever everyone needs for free for one's entire life.



So you're for the abolishment of The Veterans Administration then?

[LoungeMachine]

So let me see if I have AssPipe's reasoning straight.

Guaranteed Healthcare to all citizens, including CHILDREN is a bad idea because we can't trust ourselves to elect uncorrupt people to administer it, and because Canada sucks at it....

Jesus :rolleyes:


How about another approach.


WE COME UP WITH THE BEST SINGLE PAYER SYSTEM AVAILABLE TO ALL SO THAT HEALTH DOESNT DEPEND ON YOUR SOCIAL STATUS IN THIS COUNTRY.

I'm happy with my tax money going to schools, defense, fire, and infrastructure........why not my neighbor's children's HEALTH

[DrMaddVibe]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
So you're for the abolishment of The Veterans Administration then?

That's covered by their military enlistment. Every American (like YOU) didn't serve so, they're entitled to it.

Think of it as paying your dues. Something YOU know nothing about!

[DrMaddVibe]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
So let me see if I have AssPipe's reasoning straight.

Guaranteed Healthcare to all citizens, including CHILDREN is a bad idea because we can't trust ourselves to elect uncorrupt people to administer it, and because Canada sucks at it....

Jesus :rolleyes:


How about another approach.


WE COME UP WITH THE BEST SINGLE PAYER SYSTEM AVAILABLE TO ALL SO THAT HEALTH DOESNT DEPEND ON YOUR SOCIAL STATUS IN THIS COUNTRY.

I'm happy with my tax money going to schools, defense, fire, and infrastructure........why not my neighbor's children's HEALTH


You really are an idiot!

You've been proven to be an idiot by your comments in this thread on this matter. Stick to what you're good at...Bashing Bush. You suck at everything else!

What are you going to try to give away next? Mansions for everybody? Ferrari's for everyone?

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by DrMaddVibe
You really are an idiot!

You've been proven to be an idiot by your comments in this thread on this matter. Stick to what you're good at...Bashing Bush. You suck at everything else!

What are you going to try to give away next? Mansions for everybody? Ferrari's for everyone?


Mansions and foreign sports cars = healthcare :rolleyes:

God, you're pathetic.

Good to see Jiffy Lube lets you have Mondays off :cool:

You're too stupid to even understand how stupid you are.

Top that. :rolleyes:

[DrMaddVibe]

Its your thread and YOU don't even understand it!

Talk about your slow kids!


Psssst...get nikki or frod to help you out. Leave the thread starting to the "big table" people!

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by DrMaddVibe
That's covered by their military enlistment. Every American (like YOU) didn't serve so, they're entitled to it.

Think of it as paying your dues. Something YOU know nothing about!


You don't get my point.

It's socialized medicine, moron.

IT DOES WORK.

:rolleyes:

Fucking minimum wage moron:rolleyes:

[DrMaddVibe]

No it doesn't!

Go see for yourself this holiday season. Spend a little time there and you tell me how well its working.

Just stop the bullshit, you're in Waaaaaaaay over your head. Stick to living in your pretend world.

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
... I'm happy with my tax money going to schools, defense, fire, and infrastructure........why not my neighbor's children's HEALTH

I would be happy too, if OUR money would all go to that (like we are promised at every elections) but in our world... it doesn't!
There is so much waiste and useless expenses that there is not enough left for the important programs...

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by DrMaddVibe
You halfwitted ####!

Even a Canadian posted in here about the evils of their medical system and YOU still don't get it!

I implore you to go to ANY border state with Canada and look at the license plates in ANY hospital parking lot. They take up almost 70% of the parking spaces!!!

Now why do YOU suppose that is? You have the audacity to call me mensa when YOU don't even know a real healthcare crisis!

How many uninsured children are there in the US? How much more money does the US end up spending on health care per capita than almost any other nation, yet we have one of the highest infant mortality rates in the developed world...

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
... Guaranteed Healthcare to all citizens, including CHILDREN is a bad idea because we can't trust ourselves to elect uncorrupt people to administer it, and because Canada sucks at it....

You sure could succeed at it...

BUT;

1- Make sure you keep on electing the right people with the right admin. (years after years)...
2- Make sure you keep that wellfare system as it is (not remotely as fat and appealing as the one we have)...
3- Make sure you keep those laws on immigration tight and keep being as selective at the door...

Orelse, I tell ya... you'll be screwed, after a while!



I hate spending time talkin' about politics but frankly, I admitt, I always end up doing it. Or at least, I end up listening to what people have to say...

So far what I hear is:

- The Americans saying: "If we'd have this, if we'd have that "socialized" and all but mostly, there are no bitterness or major frustration (like the kinds that will take people out on the streets)...
Everyone can feel somehow satisfied and comfortable with what's offered, while still enjoying (and having control of) the majority of the fruit of their labor.
Of course, I am talking about legal citizens with jobs.

- The Canadians (especially the most taxed ones) are the ones that are mad, frustrated, want to (and do) move elswhere because they are tired of constantly paying huge amounts in exchange of mediocrity!

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by DrMaddVibe
Its your thread and YOU don't even understand it!

Talk about your slow kids!


Psssst...get nikki or frod to help you out. Leave the thread starting to the "big table" people!

God you're a fvcken child. Seriously, are you really 40-something?

Maybe you should stick to Aiken for Clay...

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
How many uninsured children are there in the US? How much more money does the US end up spending on health care per capita than almost any other nation, yet we have one of the highest infant mortality rates in the developed world...


He wouldn't know or care......

He thinks it's all about sports cars and mansions.

If it's not on American Idol, well.........

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by DrMaddVibe
Socialized medicine...HA!



Originally posted by DrMaddVibe
STFU mensa halfwit!




Originally posted by DrMaddVibe
That's covered by their military enlistment. Every American (like YOU) didn't serve so, they're entitled to it.

Think of it as paying your dues. Something YOU know nothing about!



Originally posted by DrMaddVibe
No it doesn't!

Go see for yourself this holiday season. Spend a little time there and you tell me how well its working.

Just stop the bullshit, you're in Waaaaaaaay over your head. Stick to living in your pretend world.



Wow, you really know your shit, huh Lube Boy?

Good thing your wife has medical insurance for you and your ankle biters, huh?

:rolleyes:

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
... He thinks it's all about sports cars and mansions...

No it's not, ALL about sports cars and mansions and NO, the coasts beaches are not full of Baywatch babes but you guys have A LOT more rich people (that are a lot richer) than we have here...

You have more possibilities (easily obtainable or not) and a lot of Canadians are "America dreaming" about that!

On the other hand, I wonder about comparison on the poverty level?
I don't know the statistics on that...

[LoungeMachine]

Not my point, bg....

The sports cars and mansions are being bought BY THE INSURANCE COMPANIES AND PHARMACEUTICAL COMPANIES that are ripping off the system here.

But ASSPipe knows nothing of that.

[ppg960]

This was bound to happen. I only thought that Alberta would be first.
Being the richest province by a long shot.
As Canadians, we should be able to choose what we want. If an individual can afford private health care, by all means do so.
Many Americans I've met over the years thinks our Healthcare system is perfect.
Believe me, it's not!

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by ppg960
... As Canadians, we should be able to choose what we want. If an individual can afford private health care, by all means do so...

THANK YOU!!! :o

[DrMaddVibe]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
How many uninsured children are there in the US? How much more money does the US end up spending on health care per capita than almost any other nation, yet we have one of the highest infant mortality rates in the developed world...


YOU look it up nikki! You gotta save your man!

Say, what's with the #### and the fVck? Can't type curse words at the school board office?:p

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
... The sports cars and mansions are being bought BY THE INSURANCE COMPANIES AND PHARMACEUTICAL COMPANIES that are ripping off the system here...

The few sports cars and mansions that are being bought here are almost strictly by those kinds of cies. as well but at least, you still have some individuals that can afford them (I've seen it happen)!

I don't personally care about that but a lot of Canadians do. The attitude thowards wealth is different... lots of people are jealous.
AND NO, I AM NOT POINTING OUT ANYONE HERE!!! (Seriously).

[blonddgirl777]

Haaaaa... let's play "Swaping Countries" for a while!

Who is game?

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by DrMaddVibe
YOU look it up nikki! You gotta save your man!

Say, what's with the #### and the fVck? Can't type curse words at the school board office?:p

Why would I be posting from school board offices, Aikenblower? And no, I can't type curses Ms.AnalVibrator.

And why would I have to save Lounge from owning your sorry ass.


By the way, my car takes 0W-30 Castrol SYNTEC bitch, hurry up!

[Nickdfresh]

http://members.tripod.com/300m_site/images/0w30_front.jpg

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by blonddgirl777
Haaaaa... let's play "Swaping Countries" for a while!

Who is game?


You know I'll swap anything with you, hun.....;)

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh


By the way, my car takes 0W-30 Castrol SYNTEC bitch, hurry up!


LMMFAO

Hey, Grease Monkey.....

You heard the man....:D

[DrMaddVibe]

Funny thing...nikki makes less than I do, and you don't even work!

PS:I don't work as a mechanic!


This was from a local paper yesterday...ironic.

http://www.heraldtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061204/NEWS/612040410/-1/xml

For aging veterans and new ones alike, battle brews over benefits

By CORY REISS
H-T WASHINGTON BUREAU
reissc@nytimes.com

WASHINGTON -- Gil Gresham of Port Charlotte went decades without tying bouts of depression, insomnia, irritability and anger to his service in Vietnam.

Turns out he has post-traumatic stress disorder, or PTSD.

Now unemployed and in his third marriage, Gresham said his symptoms got worse in the last three years with the carnage in Iraq.

"It's like a big flashback," said Gresham, 59. "We've got body counts every night on the news and pictures of the war. And it brings back a lot of stuff."

Last summer, Gresham sought help from the Department of Veterans Affairs for a heart ailment, and doctors recognized his psychological problem. He now attributes to PTSD troubles that led to him leaving his job in a data center for the Sarasota Herald-Tribune before the diagnosis.

Gresham filed a disability claim for service-connected PTSD in August 2005 and received a 50 percent rating that pays him about $750 a month. Last week, he filed an additional claim for his heart condition, which Gresham attributes to stress from long-term, untreated PTSD.

Gresham is part of a surge in disability claims and appeals that is expected to send disability and survivor entitlements soaring by more than 81 percent in 2007 over 2000 levels, an increase of $15.4 billion. The VA predicts these payments will hit $59 billion in 2016, up from $34.3 billion in 2007.

Budget numbers are often cold and inhuman, but these figures show troubling trends for veterans and their health.

Veterans groups and congressional aides say the rise in disability compensation reflects the aging of Vietnam veterans, the effect Iraq has on PTSD victims from prior conflicts, an influx of Iraq and Afghanistan veterans, and a system that in many ways encourages veterans to appeal for more government money.

The House and Senate have passed a $78 billion veterans spending bill for 2007, with barely a word about an additional $4 billion for disability compensation, but have yet to send it to the president's desk. Little attention has been given to what the trend suggests about the veterans population and the future of the VA budget, even though lawmakers frequently criticize the VA for backlogs in processing these claims.

Veterans, lawmakers and President Bush have sparred annually about increases for health care, which next year will have increased by almost 70 percent since 2000 and yet still will trail increases for disability checks. Veterans, a vocal constituency, have fared well in recent budget battles with a wartime Congress.

Unlike medical care, which is funded at Congress' discretion, disability compensation falls on the side of the ledger called mandatory spending, akin to Social Security or Medicare. Congress can do little about the cost without changing the policies.

"If someone truly was injured while serving our country, I believe they need to be compensated," said Rep. Ginny Brown-Waite, a Florida Republican on a veterans disability subcommittee whose district brims with veterans. "Do I think we should have an open checkbook? No, I don't. But there's a process in place."

The VA estimates disability rolls will top 2.9 million veterans in 2007, not including benefits to spouses of deceased veterans -- up from 2.3 million in 2000. Average annual payments, including cost of living increases, will have gone from $6,750 to about $10,300.

The VA, in a written statement last week, attributed the growth to a 39 percent increase since 2000 in disability claims that have also become more complex, and to better outreach to active troops before leaving the service.

Congress created a special commission in 2003 to examine the VA disability system and recommend changes. The panel is already late in producing a report now expected next fall.

Meanwhile, claims continue to mount.

Rick Weidman, legislative director for the Vietnam Veterans of America, said the war in Iraq stirs memories in Vietnam veterans like Gresham and fuels growth in disability claims for PTSD and appeals for higher ratings.

"It's reawaking, because of the similarities, PTSD symptomology in Vietnam veterans, some of whom had never ever sought help before," Weidman said.

Iraq and Afghanistan are adding to disability rolls. In October, the National Security Archives obtained a July memo from the VA under threat of litigation that shows one in four discharged veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan, or nearly 153,000, had filed disability claims since 2001.

"We're sending these men and women over there to fight," said Joe Violante, legislative director for Disabled American Veterans. "We've got to take care of them."

Experience from past conflicts suggests the VA will not know the true cost of these wars for decades.

The service-connected disabilities of Vietnam veterans are getting worse with age, leading to new claims and appeals. Veterans also admit there are financial incentives for seeking disability status or higher ratings as they near retirement.

"You're going to continue to see these counts grow as the veterans population ages," said Quentin Kinderman, deputy director of legislative services for the Veterans of Foreign Wars. "This is a cost of war."

Veterans say they are under-compensated at the low end of the scale, prompting some to appeal. For example, a single veteran with no children who is 100 percent disabled receives $2,393 a month, but only $690 for a 50 percent rating.

Congress also in 2003 allowed some disabled veterans who retired from the military to collect both their pension and disability checks at the same time, an issue known as concurrent receipt. But the new rule only applies to veterans who are 50 percent disabled or higher. Experts said some with lower ratings seek increases to avoid having their disability subtracted from their military pensions.

Wartime helped veterans gain traction in their fight to win concurrent receipt for all retired veterans with disabilities, but the expensive proposal prompted a rare fight over disability benefits.

Republicans concerned about the cost suggested redefining the term "service-connected" to narrow eligibility, which drew howls from veterans. Congress rejected the idea, approved a compromise concurrent receipt bill for veterans with ratings of 50 percent or higher, and created a commission to study the entire disability system.

That 13-member panel, the Veterans' Disability Benefits Commission, is knee deep in analysis. But under heavy lobbying by veterans groups it has rejected one idea that would save the VA large amounts: a lump-sum payment.

The panel will consider other steps that could limit benefits, narrow eligibility or increase payments for some vets. Ray Wilburn, the panel's executive director, said the commission is not on a mission to cut costs.

"That is absolutely not true," he said.

Veterans groups would likely fight proposals to rein in benefits if they survive commission debate. Moreover, with Democrats in control of the House and Senate next year, veterans are expected to again press for concurrent receipt for all disabled retirees.

Wilburn said it is likely that some recommendations from the commission would reduce costs, while others would increase them.

"If they come up with anything very draconian," Brown-Waite said, "I don't see Congress legislating anything to accomplish that."

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by DrMaddVibe
Funny thing...nikki makes less than I do, and you don't even work!

PS:I don't work as a mechanic!

"

I know ! [exclamations needed?]

Mechanics require training, and make decent money.

You change oil.


Many people like me who no longer "work" make more than you, it's The American Way. Don't be bitter.

Can ya check my wiper fluid while you're at it?

[DylanLeeRoth]

I'm infested with Herpes Sores..who cares

[knuckleboner]

Originally posted by DylanLeeRoth
vancouver is infested with chinks..who cares

racial slurs? you should just stick to jocking sammy...

[DrMaddVibe]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
I know ! [exclamations needed?]

Mechanics require training, and make decent money.

You change oil.


Many people like me who no longer "work" make more than you, it's The American Way. Don't be bitter.

Can ya check my wiper fluid while you're at it?


Your thread has relegated to the low levels of your attempted humor.

You have no real understanding of the Canadian healthcare system, much less our own here in the US. Your infantile comments about birthrights, public education, civil and military defenses and redistributed wealth have shown that you're not worth talking to. Your an idiot with a bad sense of humor.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by DrMaddVibe
Your thread has relegated to the low levels of your attempted humor.

You have no real understanding of the Canadian healthcare system, much less our own here in the US. Your infantile comments about birthrights, public education, civil and military defenses and redistributed wealth have shown that you're not worth talking to. Your an idiot with a bad sense of humor.


:hula:

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by DrMaddVibe
Funny thing...nikki makes less than I do, and you don't even work!

Oh yeah! I forgot you're an internet rich biotch that drives a Ford F-150 and you're just going to oWn me...

I guess you'll be kept confortable in Milwakee's Best, Porkrinds, grits, and a gated trailor park with the supersized wife and puppies for the rest of your natural born life!!

LMFAO!!:p


PS:I don't work as a mechanic!

Oil changers aren't mechanics...



This was from a local paper yesterday...ironic.

http://www.heraldtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061204/NEWS/612040410/-1/xml

For aging veterans and new ones alike, battle brews over benefits

By CORY REISS
H-T WASHINGTON BUREAU
reissc@nytimes.com

WASHINGTON -- Gil Gresham of Port Charlotte went decades without tying bouts of depression, insomnia, irritability and anger to his service in Vietnam.

Turns out he has post-traumatic stress disorder, or PTSD.

Now unemployed and in his third marriage, Gresham said his symptoms got worse in the last three years with the carnage in Iraq.

"It's like a big flashback," said Gresham, 59. "We've got body counts every night on the news and pictures of the war. And it brings back a lot of stuff."

Last summer, Gresham sought help from the Department of Veterans Affairs for a heart ailment, and doctors recognized his psychological problem. He now attributes to PTSD troubles that led to him leaving his job in a data center for the Sarasota Herald-Tribune before the diagnosis.

Gresham filed a disability claim for service-connected PTSD in August 2005 and received a 50 percent rating that pays him about $750 a month. Last week, he filed an additional claim for his heart condition, which Gresham attributes to stress from long-term, untreated PTSD.

Gresham is part of a surge in disability claims and appeals that is expected to send disability and survivor entitlements soaring by more than 81 percent in 2007 over 2000 levels, an increase of $15.4 billion. The VA predicts these payments will hit $59 billion in 2016, up from $34.3 billion in 2007.

Budget numbers are often cold and inhuman, but these figures show troubling trends for veterans and their health.

Veterans groups and congressional aides say the rise in disability compensation reflects the aging of Vietnam veterans, the effect Iraq has on PTSD victims from prior conflicts, an influx of Iraq and Afghanistan veterans, and a system that in many ways encourages veterans to appeal for more government money.

The House and Senate have passed a $78 billion veterans spending bill for 2007, with barely a word about an additional $4 billion for disability compensation, but have yet to send it to the president's desk. Little attention has been given to what the trend suggests about the veterans population and the future of the VA budget, even though lawmakers frequently criticize the VA for backlogs in processing these claims.

Veterans, lawmakers and President Bush have sparred annually about increases for health care, which next year will have increased by almost 70 percent since 2000 and yet still will trail increases for disability checks. Veterans, a vocal constituency, have fared well in recent budget battles with a wartime Congress.

Unlike medical care, which is funded at Congress' discretion, disability compensation falls on the side of the ledger called mandatory spending, akin to Social Security or Medicare. Congress can do little about the cost without changing the policies.

"If someone truly was injured while serving our country, I believe they need to be compensated," said Rep. Ginny Brown-Waite, a Florida Republican on a veterans disability subcommittee whose district brims with veterans. "Do I think we should have an open checkbook? No, I don't. But there's a process in place."

The VA estimates disability rolls will top 2.9 million veterans in 2007, not including benefits to spouses of deceased veterans -- up from 2.3 million in 2000. Average annual payments, including cost of living increases, will have gone from $6,750 to about $10,300.

The VA, in a written statement last week, attributed the growth to a 39 percent increase since 2000 in disability claims that have also become more complex, and to better outreach to active troops before leaving the service.

Congress created a special commission in 2003 to examine the VA disability system and recommend changes. The panel is already late in producing a report now expected next fall.

Meanwhile, claims continue to mount.

Rick Weidman, legislative director for the Vietnam Veterans of America, said the war in Iraq stirs memories in Vietnam veterans like Gresham and fuels growth in disability claims for PTSD and appeals for higher ratings.

"It's reawaking, because of the similarities, PTSD symptomology in Vietnam veterans, some of whom had never ever sought help before," Weidman said.

Iraq and Afghanistan are adding to disability rolls. In October, the National Security Archives obtained a July memo from the VA under threat of litigation that shows one in four discharged veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan, or nearly 153,000, had filed disability claims since 2001.

"We're sending these men and women over there to fight," said Joe Violante, legislative director for Disabled American Veterans. "We've got to take care of them."

Experience from past conflicts suggests the VA will not know the true cost of these wars for decades.

The service-connected disabilities of Vietnam veterans are getting worse with age, leading to new claims and appeals. Veterans also admit there are financial incentives for seeking disability status or higher ratings as they near retirement.

"You're going to continue to see these counts grow as the veterans population ages," said Quentin Kinderman, deputy director of legislative services for the Veterans of Foreign Wars. "This is a cost of war."

Veterans say they are under-compensated at the low end of the scale, prompting some to appeal. For example, a single veteran with no children who is 100 percent disabled receives $2,393 a month, but only $690 for a 50 percent rating.

Congress also in 2003 allowed some disabled veterans who retired from the military to collect both their pension and disability checks at the same time, an issue known as concurrent receipt. But the new rule only applies to veterans who are 50 percent disabled or higher. Experts said some with lower ratings seek increases to avoid having their disability subtracted from their military pensions.

Wartime helped veterans gain traction in their fight to win concurrent receipt for all retired veterans with disabilities, but the expensive proposal prompted a rare fight over disability benefits.

Republicans concerned about the cost suggested redefining the term "service-connected" to narrow eligibility, which drew howls from veterans. Congress rejected the idea, approved a compromise concurrent receipt bill for veterans with ratings of 50 percent or higher, and created a commission to study the entire disability system.

That 13-member panel, the Veterans' Disability Benefits Commission, is knee deep in analysis. But under heavy lobbying by veterans groups it has rejected one idea that would save the VA large amounts: a lump-sum payment.

The panel will consider other steps that could limit benefits, narrow eligibility or increase payments for some vets. Ray Wilburn, the panel's executive director, said the commission is not on a mission to cut costs.

"That is absolutely not true," he said.

Veterans groups would likely fight proposals to rein in benefits if they survive commission debate. Moreover, with Democrats in control of the House and Senate next year, veterans are expected to again press for concurrent receipt for all disabled retirees.

Wilburn said it is likely that some recommendations from the commission would reduce costs, while others would increase them.

"If they come up with anything very draconian," Brown-Waite said, "I don't see Congress legislating anything to accomplish that."

Thank Ms.BiotchVibe for posting an article telling what a fooking ass licker you voted for that cuts veterans benefits whilst sending them to War, one you voted for and fully supported.

Nice stab in the back you Judas cvnt....

Typical ultrapartisan Republick-it!

"We believe gov't doesn't work, so let us take it over and show how it doesn't work by appointing patronage hacks and incompetents."

http://www.annoy.com/img/covers/mission_accomplished_sp.jpg

[LoungeMachine]

Oh, shit........

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
... Many people like me who no longer "work" make more than you, it's The American Way...

Now THAT, is something to be jealous of... (but not bitter)... :o
I say: Fuck the "Canadian Way"!
The only way for a Canadian to do that, is to be on wellfare and have different identities & home adress...

Now wait a minute... Emerald City... isn't that close to Ottawa??? ;)

[DrMaddVibe]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Oh, shit........

That's all nikki is...shit.

[Angel]

Originally posted by blonddgirl777
I say: Fuck the "Canadian Way"!
The only way for a Canadian to do that, is to be on wellfare and have different identities & home adress...

Bull fucking shit!!

As for our health care, yes, it needs help, however I'm alive because of it, and last year there was a report put out by the American Journal of Medicine that Canadians received better care than our American counterparts.

BG, I still think you need to get your ass out of this country... you're not deserving.

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by Angel
... BG, I still think you need to get your ass out of this country...

I know... we're slowly working on it!
I would prefer to raise my son in the U-S (beleive it or not)...
My friends and family think we're nuts but, what can I say? It's a legitimate choice!

[blonddgirl777]

I am proud of the fact that Canadians have good intentions for offering fair medical for everybody...
The idea is fundamentally good.
But I just think that it doesn't work well, as it is!
Especially in this politically messed up province...

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by Angel
... BG, ... you're not deserving.

As for what I deserve...

My family, my husband and myself have worked all our lives and paid our dues (without hiding a penny)...
I think I deserve to get back the little bit that I get, for everything I've put in!

As a tax payer, I deserve to complain and claim more (if I feel like we don't get enough back) and I don't need to say "Thank You"...
Hell, I don't get a "Thank You" note, when they cash my cheque!

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by blonddgirl777
As for what I deserve...

My family, my husband and myself have worked all our lives and paid our dues (without hiding a penny)...
I think I deserve to get back the little bit that I get, for everything I've put in!

As a tax payer, I deserve to complain and claim more (if I feel like we don't get enough back) and I don't need to say "Thank You"...
Hell, I don't get a "Thank You" note, when they cash my cheque!


So in your opinion, Angel;

WHO would be, a true deserving citizen?
What makes YOU (for exemple) more deserving than myself?
And
What does someone has to do, to deserve ALL that you claim is so great about this country?

[Angel]

IMO, if you're not willing to lose your life for your country, you're not deserving...

That goes for Americans in the US, Canucks in Canada, Afghani's in Afghanistan... you get the picture.

I'd put my life on the line for this great nation in a heartbeat.... would you?

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by Angel
IMO, if you're not willing to lose your life for your country, you're not deserving...

That goes for Americans in the US, Canucks in Canada, Afghani's in Afghanistan... you get the picture.

I'd put my life on the line for this great nation in a heartbeat.... would you?

Ho absolutely NOT!
(I consider my contribution to be more than enough... y'all don't need my blood)...

I was just listening to this radio political program and the host said that after a survey, the results was that only a very small (VERY small) purcentage of people in the western world are willing to die for their countries and religion...

The military forces have no problems fighting for freedom but a lot are re-considering the principal motives of certain wars...
Their lives being on the line for money profits only, they are disapointed...

As for you, willing to loose your life over your country... what does it mean (in concrete actions)?
If you think that the majority of citizens here are willing to do that, well... think again!

Deserving (in reallity), is putting the efforts for this country to go on, economically and I DO THAT!
In Canada, we don't need to worry about our freedom... yet...

[blonddgirl777]

And don't forget Angel...
If EVERYBODY is willing to loose their lives for a country (to deserve anything), there will be, no more country!

[WACF]

My wife and I just had a baby 5 weeks ago.

Things were a bit rough and she ended up getting a C-Section because the boy's heart rate dropped like a rock.

She was wheeled from the labour room into surgery in no time...I was holding my son within 20 minutes.

I can not bitch about how they were cared for on bit...thank God for our system.

A few years back I was involved in a near fatal rock fall at work...I was taken in and cared for very well...it was good to know I was not going to be facing a medical bill.


I see why we need some reform...I hope it comes.

BUT...our system is good...it needs fixing but does not need to be thrown out.

We already have priviate clinics doing blood work, X-Rays ect....I do not see where a private clinic doing minor procedures would be a problem.

AND...to some degree...if you are rich enough and want your own clinic to take care your needs is it so bad?
Former Liberal PM Martin went to a private clinic for all his needs...seem hyprocritcal considering his stance does it not?

[WACF]

On a different note.

Our media is a bloody mess when it comes to Afghanistan.

Do not watch, read or listen to only one brand of news...you will get a very narrow story.

This blog actually tells a different story...and there are many other sources for more acturate stories.

http://toyoufromfailinghands.blogspot.com/

This site gives a bit more information than the MSM.

http://www.mediaright.ca/

Read the new stories every day and see what you are missing from the news.

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by WACF
... I see why we need some reform...I hope it comes.

BUT...our system is good...it needs fixing but does not need to be thrown out.

We already have priviate clinics doing blood work, X-Rays ect....I do not see where a private clinic doing minor procedures would be a problem...

Last summer, as I got pregnant also with a boy :), I had a rough begining...
I was bleeding with cramps and the nurse on the "hot line" told me to rush to a hospital... wich I did.

I was held in the E.R. sitting/laying on a dirty floor (lack of chairs and beds) for over 6 HOURS , before a doctor could see me!
Everything came to places by itself... Thank God!

Now, I will give birth in 10 weeks... I am scared to death (not of the pain) but that if something goes wrong, I will not get the proper care...

This is just one (the latest) of my Medical horror stories... and this is just mine (not the various ones of people I know)...

Bad luck and malpractices happen in every countries but to constantly hear that we need more and more money... it is outragous!

Yes, we need a "fix up" in that system and I am tired of hearing the same old excuses from our politicians...



What is eaven more outragous (in Québec anyway), is that the P.Q. people are constantly fighting against a parrallel private system!
Their version of a socialist system is NOT GOOD at all!

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by WACF
... Do not watch, read or listen to only one brand of news...

Personally, I don't...

[WACF]

Don't be scared.

There is a big difference from the ER to Maternity.

Believe me...the ER does not want you having your baby there...especially when the Mat ward is just a short elevator trip away.

Our care was outstanding.

When our son's heart rate dropped they did not fuck around.

They wheeled her to the next room while I put on scrubs.
They took her at 10 PM....I was holding my boy at 10:20.
Very proffesional...we were not nervous one bit.
My wife and son where very well taken care of.

To speed things up for you make sure you have your admission forms filled out before hand.

I dropped my wife off at the ER and went to park.
When I got there she was waiting in a wheel chair for me and they had already called anit-partem to let them know she was comming up.
It really speeds things up.

As far as your experience with ER went...that is not good.
The problem with ER is your work load is up the public and what they get into.

That is where private clinics or more medi-clinics could take some pressure off.

[m_dixon1984]

Another thing to remember about our country is that although "universal" health care is guaranteed at the federal level it is left up to the provinces to implement it. This can lead to significant differences from province to province. Unfortunately for Quebecers I've heard more complaints about their system than I have any other. My brother lived in Montreal for 5-6 years and hod nothing but bad experiences for his sports injuries. A bleeding pregnant woman had to wait 6 hours for help??? I was in the emergency room just a few weeks ago in Ottawa for a minor head injury with no bleeding, I was in and out in about 90 minutes.

M

[WACF]

Yeah, you are right.

The thing with Quebec is that they do not listen to the feds for where to allocate the money they are given.

The other provinces are told how much money is to be put where from Federal transfers.

Quebec does their own thing.

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by WACF
... To speed things up for you make sure you have your admission forms filled out before hand.

I dropped my wife off at the ER and went to park.
When I got there she was waiting in a wheel chair for me and they had already called anit-partem to let them now she was comming up.
It really speeds things up...

Wow... I am starting to get nervous now!

I have been envisualizing everything to go just fine... since the bigining.

I am going to the best rated hospital in this province and I know that mothers and babies (dads too) are well treated there...
Besides, I have a very good "old fashion" doctor that will be paged as soon as it all starts and will get there to personally deliver that boy.
And HE is great and very passionate about his work!

At least, the newborns are well treated, so they can get a good start in life...
That is, a positive point!

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by WACF
Yeah, you are right.

The thing with Quebec is that they do not listen to the feds for where to allocate the money they are given.

The other provinces are told how much money is to be put where from Federal transfers.

Quebec does their own thing.

This is embarassing...
I hate so much the fact that we are so distinct from other provinces!

Where did it all go wrong?
What did we not sign up?
(I know some of the answers to this...)

My husband and I (and other friends from Ontario) always say that the problem is not Canada... it's Québec!

Haaa... that's a hole 'nother debate wich if I get into with my die hard "Parti Québécois" friends, they have me on a stick! :rolleyes:

[WACF]

What happens in Quebec is that in order to pay for your social programs...for example 24 hour $7/day daycare...the money comes out of the Federal Transfer payments.

In order to make these programs work the money needs to come from somewhere...that is why Quebec medicare is in trouble.

That is one thing Gille Duceppe does not tell you....with Quebec taking up to %44 of the Federal money divided between provinces the Belle province can not afford to seperate.

The whole national daycare debate is joke too...it was just vote buying on the Liberals behalf.

They could not even fund national medicare properly yet they want to fund a national daycare.
I say fix what you have then bring in more programs if you can...but...talk is cheap and votes are easy to buy.

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by WACF
... social programs...for example 24 hour $7/day daycare...

Correction;
Daycare centers are only open from 7:00 to 18:00, week days... and the places are limited.
A lot of people have to hire in private...

Nonetheless, you're absolutely right...

What we are hoping for now, is that a household that makes 200K/year gets to pay more that $7.00/day... more than the minimum wage people... leaving space for the onesw really in need.
THAT, in itself, would be a start!

[WACF]

Originally posted by blonddgirl777
Correction;
Daycare centers are only open from 7:00 to 18:00, week days... and the places are limited.
A lot of people have to hire in private...

Nonetheless, you're absolutely right...

What we are hoping for now, is that a household that makes 200K/year gets to pay more that $7.00/day... more than the minimum wage people... leaving space for the onesw really in need.
THAT, in itself, would be a start!

Thank You for the correction...just goes to show you can not believe everything you read is correct.

Here is something I had a problem with...the Liberal plan.

Best case senerio it was something one out of sixteen kids get the chance at subsidized daycare under the Liberals.

I work shift work and have a couple days off during the regular work week.
Because I want to raise my child and not send him to daycare on my days off a couple days during the week, I am now NOT entitled to use the government daycare.
Even though my tax dollers are funding it...and I would be forced to pay out of my pocket for the 2 and a half days I would need daycare...so really I pay twice.

I will be more than happy to take the $100 Harper is going to send my way...at least I am getting something I can use...versus getting nothing at all.

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by WACF
... I work shift work and have a couple days off during the regular work week.
Because I want to raise my child and not send him to daycare on my days off a couple days during the week, I am now NOT entitled to use the government daycare.
Even though my tax dollers are funding it...and I would be forced to pay out of my pocket for the 2 and a half days I would need daycare...so really I pay twice...

There is a lot of that, happening...

My cousin makes about 100K/year and her husband (I would say) around 150...

They have 2 boys that they sent to public daycare centers before they reached school age.

On the other hand, an assistant of mine was making 28K/year and her husband, minimum wage.
Because they live in a crowder area, they had to send their baby to a private daycare center (tax deductable because of their low income, sure) but... how fair is that?

The idea behind a socialist system is so everyone gets a chance...
Right now, as it is... it DOES NOT work!

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by WACF
Thank You for the correction...just goes to show you can not believe everything you read is correct...

L.O.L. Reminds me...

Once In California, this guy said to me "Hey, you're Canadian? Let's get married and move to Canada where we will both make 60K/year on wellfare"...

I asked him if he truely beleived that 60K was what they make?
And he said "Yes, I heard it on the news"...

The only thing I can think of is that he heard that someone that is on wellfare gets a "salary" and a lot of other benefits for free... on top of that, some of them work (non-declared) so it can come up to 60K/year...

I know some handy men that are pretty well off... on Canadian wellfare!

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by DrMaddVibe
That's all nikki is...####.

Much like your brains...

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by blonddgirl777
... I know some handy men that are pretty well off... on Canadian wellfare!

Ho, and I know a girl on wellfare (by choice) that brings her child everydays to a public daycare...
She stays at home all day yet, needs daycare!
L.M.A.O... (although it's NOT funny)...

No wonder why there is nothing left for medical purposes!

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by blonddgirl777
Ho, and I know a girl on wellfare (by choice) that brings her child everydays to a public daycare...
She stays at home all day yet, needs daycare!
L.M.A.O... (although it's NOT funny)...

No wonder why there is nothing left for medical purposes!

Sounds like the kid is better off away from her while in daycare...

[blonddgirl777]

NickDfresh,

Is that you, on the left... in your signature's pic.?

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Sounds like the kid is better off away from her while in daycare...

Ho, that is for sure... she is a basket case!

[Nitro Express]

Originally posted by blonddgirl777
I am proud of the fact that Canadians have good intentions for offering fair medical for everybody...
The idea is fundamentally good.
But I just think that it doesn't work well, as it is!
Especially in this politically messed up province...

I hate Socialism. The US used to work just fine with the healthcare and public education. All of it started going to pot when parents got uninvolved in the public schools and we graduated too many lawyers.

What's killing the US is greed and that greed will drive prices so high that the people will want Socialism.

Everyone wants a handout now or the corporations are screwing us. We need another Teddy Roosevelt.

[Nitro Express]

Socialized medicine means the middle class and poor have poor healthcare and the rich will still have their private clinics and hospitals.

I'm afraid socialist healthcare is comming to the US because too many don't have healthcare due to our horrific insurance prices.

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Sounds like the kid is better off away from her while in daycare...

Previously, I answered "Yes, she is a basket case" but that was a fast answer...

I said she was a basket case when in fact, she is just a lazy and selfish individual;
She is fully capable of working (smart with a degree, lots of talents etc...) but choses not to.
She is completely adequate for taking care of her child full time, but choses not to, as she claims that she needs "time for herself"...

1- If the wellfare laws would allow the agents to do their jobs, they would investigate and find out that she does not DESERVE to get money for nothing and force her to get a job...

2- If the daycare laws would be that anyone that is on wellfare and capable of taking care of their children should do so, she would have to take her responsabilities and raise her son...

Children are always better off with their natural parents (unless those ARE real basket cases) and given the fact that our daycare system is suffering, everyone that can afford to stay at home with their children and chose to do so, should do their own babysitting jobs instead of taking advantage of what they don't really need!

The majority of couples can't afford a "stay at home Mom." (women have to work)... they are the ones who deserve the benefits of the public daycare!

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by Nitro Express
Socialized medicine means the middle class and poor have poor healthcare and the rich will still have their private clinics and hospitals.

I'm afraid socialist healthcare is comming to the US because too many don't have healthcare due to our horrific insurance prices.

Poor healthcare is better than NO healthcare at all...
Waiting 6 hours at the E.R. is better than not going at all!

But this is not a 3rd. world country and we are rich enough to have better services...
The money in the bag just has to be better distributed , damnit!

[Nitro Express]

Originally posted by blonddgirl777
Poor healthcare is better than NO healthcare at all...
Waiting 6 hours at the E.R. is better than not going at all!

But this is not a 3rd. world country and we are rich enough to have better services...
The money in the bag just has to be better distributed , damnit!

Whenever politicians get involved in wealth distribution look out! Look at the US healthcare system in the 1960's. Lyndon Johnson did even include pharmacutical drugs in Medicare because they were so cheap. Drugs cost pennies to make and I don't want to hear the R&D argument. Intel spends three times as much on R&D as the average drug company but we get a better product for less money.

In the 1960's the average American could choose their doctor and usually pay the bill themselves.

Now we have people flying to India to have opperations because it's so expensive here. We need to find out what's driving these high prices and make some regulations. How about loser pays lawsuits to reduce the amount of frivalouse lawsuits.

Where we are going is how much you make determines how healthy you are going to be and whether you live or die.

We don't need socialism. Capitalism worked pretty damn good in the US in the 1950's and 60's. Our services actually started going downhill whith Johnson's socialist programs.

[Nitro Express]

We have what's called the working poor in the US. They are the people who refuse to go on welfare and they work. But the welfare rats enjoy healthcare and bennefits that the lower middle class people can't afford. It pisses me off.

Convicts on death row have better healthcare than the average US citizen now. If you are chronically i'll here, rob a bank and get arressted. Then you will have access to healthcare that was unafordable when you were playing by the rules and working.

[Nitro Express]

Many self-employeed can't afford healthcare because the govt. takes 12% in it's F.I.C.A. tax. Add state and federal income tas, property tax, gas tax, phone tax, sales tax ect.. and more than half of your wad is shot. We pay a lot of taxes but get little govt. bennefit from it. That's of course if you work and are off of welfare.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Nitro Express
I hate Socialism. The US used to work just fine with the healthcare and public education. All of it started going to pot when parents got uninvolved in the public schools and we graduated too many lawyers.

What's killing the US is greed and that greed will drive prices so high that the people will want Socialism.

Everyone wants a handout now or the corporations are ######## us. We need another Teddy Roosevelt.

Read some more about Teddy Roosevelt and his "Square Deal" (http://www.answers.com/topic/square-deal-u-s-hist-in-encyclopedia) reforms. Many would call him a "socialist" for them today...

[DrMaddVibe]

And many would still elect him as a 3rd party candidate!!!

[Angel]

How much would this cost in the US? - I've had this since 1989:

Numerous tests to determine the need for a cardiac pacemaker (stress tests, holter monitor, etc)
2 Pacemaker implant surgeries
1 surgery to replace pacemaker leads
Pacemaker test and ECG every 3 to 6 months
Echocardiogram every 4 years

I probably wouldn't even be able to get insurance in the US, because of my heart condition...

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by Angel
How much would this cost in the US? - I've had this since 1989:

Numerous tests to determine the need for a cardiac pacemaker (stress tests, holter monitor, etc)
2 Pacemaker implant surgeries
1 surgery to replace pacemaker leads
Pacemaker test and ECG every 3 to 6 months
Echocardiogram every 4 years

I probably wouldn't even be able to get insurance in the US, because of my heart condition...

Holly shit woman!
Sorry to hear that... :(
You are one unlucky Kanuck (but lucky to be here)!

[blonddgirl777]

My friend's 60 (somethin') years old father had to be on a waiting list for over 6 months, in order to get a bypass surgery...
My friend was outraged and scared he would dye before he got a chance to be operated...

Heart attacks being still the #1 (or so) killer in this country, the big debate is now; should smokers that refuse to stop (eaven after surgery) be put at the end of those waiting lists???

Serious question...

[Nitro Express]

Whether you are in Canada or the US it still boils down to this. The rich will always have access to better healthcare and the poor won't.

Angel, here in the US all those heart issues would be covered for 100% and you would get good doctors but you have to be in prison to get it. Our prison population has better healthcare than our middle class working law abiding citizens do.

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by Nitro Express
Whether you are in Canada or the US it still boils down to this. The rich will always have access to better healthcare and the poor won't...

Our politicians (some of the same thay advocate public medecine) and the richest ones don't fuck around in the crowder E.R.'s and with the waiting lists...

The fly down to the U-S!

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by Nitro Express
... Angel, here in the US all those heart issues would be covered for 100% and you would get good doctors but you have to be in prison to get it...

Now THAT's a good reason to commit a crime! :rolleyes:

[Nitro Express]

Why do you think the US imprisons more people than any other country? Everone is losing their health coverage. Rob a Maverik store and you are now covered.

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by blonddgirl777

Heart attacks being still the #1 (or so) killer in this country, the big debate is now; should smokers that refuse to stop (eaven after surgery) be put at the end of those waiting lists???

Serious question...

Yup the minute they remove taxes from cigarettes.

If they did that then the average smoker could easily go private since they would be saving a few thousand bucks a year.

In fact smokers should be put the the top of any public healthcare waiting list since they already paid for their op.

Cheers!

:gulp:

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Here's my point.....

YES OR NO.

Shouldn't universal healthcare be a basic BIRTHRIGHT, if not at least a high priority of the world's richest nation??????

We have socialized police, fire, and military defenses. Why? Because we believe every citizen has the right to be protected.

We have "socialized medicine" for select groups in this country. Let's at least make CHILDREN one of those select groups.

Because of the way our Health System is set up now, many cannot afford basic healthcare. And I think that is a crime.

Having coverage from the government for select groups is not socialized medicine. It's given to those [people 65 years of age and older, some disabled people under 65 years of age, and people with End-Stage Renal Disease (permanent kidney failure treated with dialysis or a transplant)] whose treatment would be extremely expensive. I guess it's just a matter of semantics.

Anyhow, the national government was never intended to provide fire or police protection, only national defense. Fire and Police protection is a local issue.

That being said, I do believe everyone is entitled to health coverage, but not everyone should be covered by the government. Laws should be made that companies should provide health coverage if they employ so many people, take in so much revenue, etc.

Health coverage provided by the government should go only to those without employer mandated insurance and with strict limits. I had my kid in a Military Treatment Faciity ER with a 103 temp a month or so back. He was seen right away (ear infection) because sick children (over a 101 temp) have priority. On the other hand, the ER waiting room was filled to capacity with people that had no other complaint except minor cold symptoms. They go to the military facility because they are entitled to.

We don't want that in all of our clinics and hospitals...people showing up with minor symptoms just because they can. It would bankrupt us all paying for that.

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
... We don't want that in all of our clinics and hospitals...people showing up with minor symptoms just because they can. It would bankrupt us all paying for that.


Minor symptoms and doctor's note, to get a paid sick day...


Trust me... IT DOES happen... (more than we want to) and I don't think that Americans would be more responsable than us in that matter!

As much as people like myself hate the sight (and smell) of an E.R., you would be surprised on how many others "get off" on it!

At least, if they would ask for a small amount of $ that the citizen would pay out of his pocket on each visit (as small as it could be), it would stop some of those E.R. abusers...

[Angel]

Originally posted by blonddgirl777
Holly shit woman!
Sorry to hear that... :(
You are one unlucky Kanuck (but lucky to be here)!

No, I'm not unlucky, I'm fortunate that a fellow Canuck invented the pacemaker. :D
Pacemaker's always need replacing, as well as leads... I expect I'll need another one in 2008.

As for ER abusers.... THEY are the main reason why our health care is in trouble.....

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by Angel
No, I'm not unlucky, I'm fortunate that a fellow Canuck invented the pacemaker. :D
Pacemaker's always need replacing, as well as leads... I expect I'll need another one in 2008...

Now THAT's the spirit!
And to say that some people complain when having a cold... :rolleyes:

I didn't know that Canadians invented the pacemaker?

I heard yesterday that (another Kanuck) just invented the Artificial Heart...
It is a mechanical heart that replaces the real thing but the batteries still have to be replaced every 3-4 hours... They are still working on that problem...

The patient was an "experiment" and very happy to have it because he wouldn't be alive today.

The heart will have to be replaced in 10 years and since the man is no millionnaire, HE also IS... one lucky Kanuck to be here!

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Having coverage from the government for select groups is not socialized medicine. It's given to those [people 65 years of age and older, some disabled people under 65 years of age, and people with End-Stage Renal Disease (permanent kidney failure treated with dialysis or a transplant)] whose treatment would be extremely expensive. I guess it's just a matter of semantics.

Anyhow, the national government was never intended to provide fire or police protection, only national defense. Fire and Police protection is a local issue.

Really? Where does it exactly say that? That's an extremist interpretation actually...

And what if the military needs firefighters? What about military police? CID? Or the FBI?


That being said, I do believe everyone is entitled to health coverage, but not everyone should be covered by the government. Laws should be made that companies should provide health coverage if they employ so many people, take in so much revenue, etc.

Health coverage provided by the government should go only to those without employer mandated insurance and with strict limits. I had my kid in a Military Treatment Faciity ER with a 103 temp a month or so back. He was seen right away (ear infection) because sick children (over a 101 temp) have priority. On the other hand, the ER waiting room was filled to capacity with people that had no other complaint except minor cold symptoms. They go to the military facility because they are entitled to.

We don't want that in all of our clinics and hospitals...people showing up with minor symptoms just because they can. It would bankrupt us all paying for that.

I'd like to see actual proof that people go to hospitals anymore for minor colds under a gov't mandated health insurance program than they do when they are fortunate enough to have employer provided health insurance.

BTW Brian, I've been in Buffalo's pristine VA Hospital and have not noticed guys there for just "minor colds" anymore than any other ER I've ever been in.

I have seen plenty of aging veterans dying of cancer though...

And isn't the idiot mother that demands antibiotics for viral infections such as colds as a much a problem under our system as it is any others?

[WACF]

Originally posted by Angel

As for ER abusers.... THEY are the main reason why our health care is in trouble.....


Yes...very true.

What is a good solution?

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Really? Where does it exactly say that? That's an extremist interpretation actually...

No, it's not. It is fact.


And what if the military needs firefighters? What about military police? CID? Or the FBI?

I think that comes under the heading of national defense. Military Police and firefighters have cognizance on military bases only. That would be national defense.

The FBI is another matter. There is no constitutional statute requiring it.



I'd like to see actual proof that people go to hospitals anymore for minor colds under a gov't mandated health insurance program than they do when they are fortunate enough to have employer provided health insurance.

I think our Canadian friends have nicely answered that one.


BTW Brian, I've been in Buffalo's pristine VA Hospital and have not noticed guys there for just "minor colds" anymore than any other ER I've ever been in.

I have seen plenty of aging veterans dying of cancer though...

The VA only handles cases directly related to military service.


And isn't the idiot mother that demands antibiotics for viral infections such as colds as a much a problem under our system as it is any others?

True enough. The clinics I go to will refuse to prescribe antibiotics unless infection is actually present. Some doctors and facilities, however, will still do so because they are afraid they will lose patients. I think you'll see that less and less in the next few years.

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by WACF
Yes...very true.

What is a good solution?

"Moderating Tickets" or a small fee (to be paid by the citizen) at the E.R....

[blonddgirl777]

[i]... I think our Canadian friends have nicely answered that one...[/B]

I am not making that up (and I'm sure that the other Kanucks here are not either)...

I don't hang out at the E.R. but the times I've been, I saw some people that where almost "partying" in there!

The doctors, nurses and volunteers that work at the E.R.'s are publically denouncing that problem...
Some people actually LIKE being there;
Some need the attention, some are hypochondriacs, some are just the kinds that pretend to always suffer more that they actually do...

There is all kinds of people and some like to just take advantage of something they assume to be "free"!

And the ones that you would think might be good candidates for that,(like homeless people in search of a roof
at -35 degrees) are not the ones seen there... they actually don't eaven use our system, eaven less abuse of it!

[WACF]

Originally posted by blonddgirl777
"Moderating Tickets" or a small fee (to be paid by the citizen) at the E.R....


Yes...I can see that happening.

Here is what will happen though.

It has already been determined that low income people are the biggest abusers of ERs.
Low income people will never have to pay a user fee...you and I will pay it though.

That is the problem with a socialist approach...the middle class will pay for the lower class in situations like this....with no accountability on abuse.

Something needs to be done though.

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by WACF
Yes...I can see that happening.

Here is what will happen though.

It has already been determined that low income people are the biggest abusers of ERs.
Low income people will never have to pay a user fee...you and I will pay it though.

That is the problem with a socialist approach...the middle class will pay for the lower class in situations like this....with no accountability on abuse.

Something needs to be done though.

I think that the low income are not the abusers either... I think it's the "free tagers" that are already used to be abusive (of every programs) that fuck things up... mostly by refusing to contribute!

[WACF]

You know...refusing to contribute is perhaps an option users should not have.

It is a tough one though...the people doing well do have an obligation of sorts to help those that are in need.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
No, it's not. It is fact.


Yes, it is a fact that you're an extremist that "cherrypicks" what the federal gov't should fund and what it should not fund. Yet you present no verifiable arguments nor criteria as to why the gov't should fund the Pentagon, but not education. But instead rely on a series of radical, mythical reinterpretations of the nature of the Constitution based on the "kook" theories of one Joseph Epstein. A New Times artticle on his extremist views and how they relate to arch-conservative justices can be read here (http://www.rotharmy.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=42493)...

It's called Constitution in Exile (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_in_exile) "movement."

http://www.tpmcafe.com/story/2005/7/8/215738/7751

http://volokh.com/posts/1113766638.shtml


I think that comes under the heading of national defense. Military Police and firefighters have cognizance on military bases only. That would be national defense.

And the Constitution also says you can only own guns if you're in the Nat'l Guard too...


The FBI is another matter. There is no constitutional statute requiring it.

There's also no Constitutional statute against the FBI either, as long as they do not violate the laws of the land...


I think our Canadian friends have nicely answered that one.

Really? Many have also stated the positives of universal health care, and yet you cherrypick the situation in Quebec, when in fact that is the worst province in the deliverance of health care, when if fact most provinces have no such crisis.

Besides, the Canadian health care system is not necessarily the model for universal health care...



The VA only handles cases directly related to military service.

Wrong! They provide health care to ALL veterans.

I've had health care provided by them while I was in college, and none of it was "service connected."

I'd think you'd know that with the claims you made here...


True enough. The clinics I go to will refuse to prescribe antibiotics unless infection is actually present. Some doctors and facilities, however, will still do so because they are afraid they will lose patients. I think you'll see that less and less in the next few years.

So, you admit that health care in this country is fukked up?

[Angel]

Originally posted by WACF
Yes...very true.

What is a good solution?

Who the hell knows? Possibly ER's should be able to turn patients away and tell them.... "this is not an emergency, go to a walk-in clinic".

Last time I was in the ER, I was in and out in under 2 hours. Some guy with a sore toe bitched that he had been there 8 already, and he should have gone in before me...

I told him that if he had been there that long, obviously the triage nurses had determined it wasn't an emergency. Mine was, as I had an allergic reaction, and my blood pressure was dropping, as well as my airways were closing. The nurse agreed with me. I was in one of the countries busiest ER rooms... the way I see it, if you're there for that long, you don't need ER...I've NEVER had a wait that long in ER... probably because when I go, it's a genuine emergency!

I recently had someone ask me if I went to the doctor when I mentioned I thought I might be coming down with a cold... blew my mind! I have NEVER been to a doctor for a cold or flu, waste of their time and mine...

Canadians need to stop thinking that we have "free" healthcare. We pay for it through our taxes, etc. They need to find a way to "punish" the abusers....

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by Angel
... I told him that if he had been there that long, obviously the triage nurses had determined it wasn't an emergency...

Then, you hear people bitchin', screamin', and throwing fits right and left...

They complain out loud about the E.R. staff, they are too stupid and arrogant to realize that those people are swamped and overloaded with work and of course... they are doing their best (with little time and sometimes, poor conditions).

If you walk in there holding your left arm, you will (here too) be treated immidiately but it's those sore toes and "might be coming down with a flue" ones that are abusing! Although directing them to a wakk-in clinic will solve the crowded E.R.'s situation, it will still be costly (especially if that person could have just gone to a pharmacist and solve his problem himself)...

The time I waited 6 hours (pregnant, bleeding "there", sitting on the floor) was because I didn't know that my case had been considered "not urgent"...

I really thought it was. In reallity, there is nothing anyone can do, if a 2 months ambrio decides he wants to drop and 40% of pregnancies end up in misscariages within the forst 3 months anyway.

But my husband and I where desperate, I wanted to die and we really thought they could save our baby... but fortunately, baby saved himself and hopefully, he will always be that strong so he won't need to visit the E.R. too often...

[blonddgirl777]

Happy B-Day Angel!

Health, happiness and all the good stuff to ya!

[blonddgirl777]

:hula: :birthday:

[Angel]

Thanks Doll!

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh



And the Constitution also says you can only own guns if you're in the Nat'l Guard too...

Not so. It does not say that and the second amendment is not decided law.




Wrong! They provide health care to ALL veterans.

I've had health care provided by them while I was in college, and none of it was "service connected."

I'd think you'd know that with the claims you made here...



Technically, you are correct. The VA will turn away vets, however, if the particular facility is overcrowded. Disabled vets have priority.

Most vets, however, opt for a military based health coverage.

BTW - I'm glad you were able to get your mammograms and pap smears while you were going to school. :D

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Not so. It does not say that and the second amendment is not decided law.


thanks for proving my point cherrypicker...



Technically, you are correct. The VA will turn away vets, however, if the particular facility is overcrowded. Disabled vets have priority.

Well, thanks to you for voting for douche bags like George Bush that cut veterans benefits while exposing them to wounds both psychological and physical...


Most vets, however, opt for a military based health coverage.

I have no idea what this means.


BTW - I'm glad you were able to get your mammograms and pap smears while you were going to school. :D

Thanks. With all that college pus$$y and tits in my face, I really needed them!

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
... Thanks. With all that college pus$$y and tits in my face, I really needed them!

See Brian?
Everyone benefits from THOSE tests!

[Nitro Express]

I sure as hell don't remember much of what I learned in college but I still remember all the pussy I got there! Ahem. Anyone going to a higher institution of learning and not getting any, is from the planet Vulcan.