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View Full Version : Democrats Plan Symbolic Votes Against Bush’s Iraq Troop Plan



Nickdfresh
01-10-2007, 05:49 AM
January 10, 2007

By JEFF ZELENY and CARL HULSE

WASHINGTON, Jan. 9 — Democratic leaders said Tuesday that they intended to hold symbolic votes in the House and Senate on President Bush’s plan to send more troops to Baghdad, forcing Republicans to take a stand on the proposal and seeking to isolate the president politically over his handling of the war.

Senate Democrats decided to schedule a vote on the resolution after a closed-door meeting on a day when Senator Edward M. Kennedy of Massachusetts introduced legislation to require Mr. Bush to gain Congressional approval before sending more troops to Iraq.

The Senate vote is expected as early as next week, after an initial round of committee hearings on the plan Mr. Bush will lay out for the nation Wednesday night in a televised address delivered from the White House library, a setting chosen because it will provide a fresh backdrop for a presidential message.

The office of Nancy Pelosi, speaker of the House, followed with an announcement that the House would also take up a resolution in opposition to a troop increase. House Democrats were scheduled to meet Wednesday morning to consider whether to interrupt their carefully choreographed 100-hour, two-week-long rollout of their domestic agenda this month to address the Iraq war.

In both chambers, Democrats made clear that the resolutions — which would do nothing in practical terms to block Mr. Bush’s intention to increase the United States military presence in Iraq — would be the minimum steps they would pursue. They did not rule out eventually considering more muscular responses, like seeking to cap the number of troops being deployed to Iraq or limiting financing for the war — steps that could provoke a Constitutional and political showdown over the president’s power to wage war.

The resolutions would represent the most significant reconsideration of Congressional support for the war since it began, and mark the first big clash between the White House and Congress since the November election, which put the Senate and House under the control of the Democrats. The decision to pursue a confrontation with the White House was a turning point for Democrats, who have struggled with how to take on Mr. Bush’s war policy without being perceived as undermining the military or risking criticism as defeatists.

“If you really want to change the situation on the ground, demonstrate to the president he’s on his own,” said Senator Joseph R. Biden Jr., chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee. “That will spark real change.”

The administration continued Tuesday to press its case with members of Congress from both parties. By the time Mr. Bush delivers his speech, 148 lawmakers will have come to the White House in the past week to discuss the war, White House aides said Tuesday night, adding that most met with the president himself.

While Mr. Kennedy and a relatively small number of other Democrats were pushing for immediate, concrete steps to challenge Mr. Bush through legislation, Democratic leaders said that for now they favored the less-divisive approach of simply asking senators to cast a vote on a nonbinding resolution for or against the plan.

They also sought to frame the clash with the White House on their terms, using language reminiscent of the Vietnam War era to suggest that increasing the United States military presence in Iraq would be a mistake.

“We believe that there is a number of Republicans who will join with us to say no to escalation,” said the Senate majority leader, Harry Reid of Nevada. “I really believe that if we can come up with a bipartisan approach to this escalation, we will do more to change the direction of that war in Iraq than any other thing that we can do.”

On the eve of the president’s Iraq speech, the White House sent Frederick W. Kagan, a military analyst who helped develop the troop increase plan, to meet with the Senate Republican Policy Committee.

But Republican officials conceded that at least 10 of their own senators were likely to oppose the plan to increase troops levels in Iraq. And Democrats were proposing their resolution with that in mind, hoping to send a forceful message that as many as 60 senators believed strengthening American forces in Baghdad was the wrong approach. Democratic leaders said they expect all but a few of their senators to back the resolution.

In an interview on Tuesday, Senator John W. Warner, Republican of Virginia, said he was becoming increasingly skeptical that a troop increase was in the best interest of the United States. “I’m particularly concerned about the greater injection of our troops into the middle of sectarian violence. Whom do you shoot at, the Sunni or the Shia?” Mr. Warner said. “Our American G.I.’s should not be subjected to that type of risk.”

But the Senate minority leader, Mitch McConnell, Republican of Kentucky, said Congress could not supplant the authority of the president. “You can’t run a war by a committee of 435 in the House and 100 in the Senate,” he said.

The White House press secretary, Tony Snow, criticized the Democrats’ plans. “We understand that the resolution is purely symbolic, but the war — and the necessity of succeeding in Iraq — are very real,” he said Tuesday night.

On Thursday, Democrats in the House and Senate will open a series of hearings on the Iraq war. Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates and Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice are among those who have agreed to testify.

Senator Carl Levin, the Michigan Democrat who is the new chairman of the Armed Services Committee, said that if he was not satisfied that Mr. Bush’s plan has sufficient incentives and penalties for the Iraqis, he might support a resolution or amendment to cap the number of American troops in Iraq.

“We have got to force the Iraqis to take charge of their own country,” Mr. Levin said at a breakfast meeting with reporters. “We can’t save them from themselves. It is a political solution. It is no longer a military solution.”

Lawmakers said Senate Democrats appeared broadly united in opposition to Mr. Bush’s approach during their private luncheon on Tuesday. While there were a few senators who favored cutting off money for any troop increase, a handful of others expressed uncertainty about challenging the president on a potential war-powers issue.

“We have to be very careful about blocking funding for any troops because we don’t want to leave our troops short-changed,” said Senator Mary L. Landrieu, Democrat of Louisiana.

Yet a large share of the House Democratic caucus supports a stronger stance against the plan. It remained unclear whether a resolution would satisfy constituents.

“Twice in the past 12 months the president has increased troop levels in a last-ditch effort to control the rapidly deteriorating security situation in Iraq,” said Representative Martin T. Meehan, Democrat of Massachusetts, who proposed a resolution opposing a troop increase. “Rather than cooling tensions in Baghdad, the situation has descended further into chaos.”

Link (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/10/washington/10capitol.html?hp&ex=1168491600&en=ce88834dd053e588&ei=5094&partner=homepage)

Thom Shanker, Sheryl Gay Stolberg and Jim Rutenberg contributed reporting.

Hardrock69
01-10-2007, 02:42 PM
You realize that vy trying to send 20,000 more troops over there without the authorization of Congress themonkey is in violation of the War Powers Act in such a manner that the penalty for doing so is impeachment.
:D

Warham
01-10-2007, 02:53 PM
He was given authorization four years ago.

Nice try.

Diamondjimi
01-10-2007, 03:46 PM
Go get that oil Dubya...

Moron !

Lqskdiver
01-10-2007, 03:53 PM
Originally posted by diamondjimi
Go get that oil Dubya...

Moron !

What the hell do you call that shit that's running the electricity in your home and the engine in your cars!

Moron!

:D

Diamondjimi
01-10-2007, 04:10 PM
Originally posted by Lqskdiver
What the hell do you call that shit that's running the electricity in your home and the engine in your cars!

Moron!

:D

Dinosaur goo. An outdated fuel source not worth dying for!

Moron !
:D

Lqskdiver
01-10-2007, 04:27 PM
Originally posted by diamondjimi
Dinosaur goo. An outdated fuel source not worth dying for!

Moron !
:D

So what, you telling me you jerked off a dinosaur??

;)

http://www.costumesgalore.net/costume_pictures/animals/barney_costume_purple_dinos.jpg

Diamondjimi
01-10-2007, 04:32 PM
Originally posted by Lqskdiver
So what, you telling me you jerked off a dinosaur??

;)

http://www.costumesgalore.net/costume_pictures/animals/barney_costume_purple_dinos.jpg

The intelligence quotia of this thread just bottomed out........nice work!;)

Lqskdiver
01-10-2007, 04:40 PM
Originally posted by diamondjimi
The intelligence "QUOTIA" of this thread just bottomed out........nice work!;)



:D :lol:

Warham
01-10-2007, 04:42 PM
Of course it's 'symbolic'. I'd love to see the Democrats self-destruct by having a legitimate vote on this, but they won't, because that's political suicide.

Nickdfresh
01-10-2007, 07:09 PM
Originally posted by Warham
He was given authorization four years ago.

Nice try.

He was given "authorization" to "use force" IF the UN inspections failed --which apparently they didn't...

It was not a declaration of war, nor was it in anyway an excuse for half the shit Bushleague hoisted on it, such as domestic spying...

Nickdfresh
01-10-2007, 07:11 PM
Originally posted by Warham
Of course it's 'symbolic'. I'd love to see the Democrats self-destruct by having a legitimate vote on this, but they won't, because that's political suicide.

Oh, and the Iraq War wasn't? Why do you think they were elected?

Seshmeister
01-10-2007, 08:56 PM
They were less bad?

Did the Democrats not vote for the war and the Patriot Act?

They're spineless money grabbers.

Nickdfresh
01-10-2007, 09:48 PM
Originally posted by Seshmeister
They were less bad?

Did the Democrats not vote for the war and the Patriot Act?

Democrats did vote, to "authorize the use of military force," not to declare war on Iraq. Semantics of course, and many are guilty of not calling 911 when they heard the screaming of the Constitution being raped...


They're spineless money grabbers.

Who? All of them? next you'll be be making other blanket-generalizations. Many are afraid to be called spineless "cut and runners" no doubt, but look at Labor, they're 100-times fucking worse!!

In any case, that's in the past, the constituency has spoken --and many Republicans now oppose this War...

Lqskdiver
01-10-2007, 10:14 PM
Many Republicans now oppose the DIRECTION the war has taken...more of your semantics.

And YOU least of all shouldn't be accusing someone else of blanket generalizations.

Nickdfresh
01-11-2007, 05:38 AM
Originally posted by Lqskdiver
Many Republicans now oppose the DIRECTION the war has taken...more of your semantics.

And YOU least of all shouldn't be accusing someone else of blanket generalizations.

UhuhuuhUHUHHuhuhuhuhuhuhhu!!

Seshmeister
01-11-2007, 07:15 AM
Originally posted by Lqskdiver
Many Republicans now oppose the DIRECTION the war has taken...more of your semantics.


The direction of getting your asses kicked?

Seshmeister
01-11-2007, 07:19 AM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Who? All of them? next you'll be be making other blanket-generalizations. Many are afraid to be called spineless "cut and runners" no doubt, but look at Labor, they're 100-times fucking worse!!


I'm not sticking up for Labour politicians but there were at least a significant bunch of them against this(20/30%) against this. The conservatives made them a non issue by being pro war.

Seshmeister
01-11-2007, 07:24 AM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Democrats did vote, to "authorize the use of military force," not to declare war on Iraq. Semantics of course, and many are guilty of not calling 911 when they heard the screaming of the Constitution being raped...



Unforgivable. What exactly are Democrat politicians for?

They universally voted to allow Bush to be able to choose anyone in the country, lock him up with no trial or contact with legal representation, and then torture them until they say they are a terrorist.

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition...

Warham
01-11-2007, 07:24 AM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
He was given "authorization" to "use force" IF the UN inspections failed --which apparently they didn't...


Yeah, how many times did the inspectors needed to be kicked out and let back in before the inspection process was considered a success? Five, six? Too many.

Warham
01-11-2007, 07:33 AM
Originally posted by Seshmeister
They were less bad?

Did the Democrats not vote for the war and the Patriot Act?

They're spineless money grabbers.

That won't stop the libs here from defending them.

FORD
01-11-2007, 08:12 AM
Originally posted by Warham
That won't stop the libs here from defending them.

I've never defended anyone who voted for that fucking war, and I never will.

I don't defend the Constitution Shredding Act of 2001 either, but it was shoved down everyone's throats without much time to read it, let alone debate it. They should have known better, but it was probably some fucking "symbol of national unity in the face of a tragic attack on this country" or whatever.

Bottom line is that NO bill should ever be brought to a vote without adequate time to review it. And I'd go as far as to say that you aren't allowed to vote on it unless you can prove you read it. Or at least had enough of your staff read it so you know what the fuck it does.

Lqskdiver
01-11-2007, 08:59 AM
Originally posted by Seshmeister
The direction of getting your asses kicked?

Exactly....

Lqskdiver
01-11-2007, 09:11 AM
Originally posted by FORD
I've never defended anyone who voted for that fucking war, and I never will.

I don't defend the Constitution Shredding Act of 2001 either, but it was shoved down everyone's throats without much time to read it, let alone debate it. They should have known better, but it was probably some fucking "symbol of national unity in the face of a tragic attack on this country" or whatever.

Bottom line is that NO bill should ever be brought to a vote without adequate time to review it. And I'd go as far as to say that you aren't allowed to vote on it unless you can prove you read it. Or at least had enough of your staff read it so you know what the fuck it does.

You criticize too much from the sidelines, man, and that's your problem. Everyone is entitled. But you raise yourself as the Lone VOICE of reason along with the other extreme leftists talk radio DJs.

If you feel you can really make a difference, start getting involved and volunteer with the local government officials to get your voice heard. It wouldn't be hard for a man in YOUR currrent position to squeeze into the campaign of some elected official to start your journey as a let's say, a congressional page. Now that Foley is out, I'd say you have less to worry about.

Bottom line is that you can be the man behind the scenes...an Architect of sorts.

And maybe, your voice will be heard where it really counts...in the actual political arena...not on some internet message board.

Not that I'm siding with you, but your influence would give our side a challenge and help keep us on our toes...and out of mischief.

I'm not just saying this, Dave. I really believe you have the capability. You've been able to turn this forum into your pasture with sheep bleating the same bullshit you've been spouting for the past 3 years.



Think about it.

Seshmeister
01-11-2007, 10:12 AM
Your problem is that you see it as sides.

Even if your team fuck up you feel you need to defend them.

That's what US 'democracy' is built on. Sheep on both sides criticising the other side instead of stepping back and realising they are being used.

Guess what, you're not in the team.

FORD
01-11-2007, 10:16 AM
Originally posted by Seshmeister
Your problem is that you see it as sides.

Even if your team fuck up you feel you need to defend them.

That's what US 'democracy' is built on. Sheep on both sides criticising the other side instead of stepping back and realising they are being used.

Guess what, you're not in the team.

Not so. In fact, there are a lot of so called Democrats whom I have absolutely NO use for at present, and it would take a Hell of a lot of effort on their part to make me change my mind.

Most of them are in the Senate unfortunately. I won't defend anyone who supports this sickening treasonous agenda.

Seshmeister
01-11-2007, 10:37 AM
I was talking to Lqskydiver and his sort on both sides who use words like 'we' when talking about political parties just because they vote at their primaries.

I think that's the big difference. The primaries act as a glue for a lot of people meaning you get less floating voters in the US than elsewhere.

Just a theory...:)

Lqskdiver
01-11-2007, 10:44 AM
Originally posted by FORD
Not so. In fact, there are a lot of so called Democrats whom I have absolutely NO use for at present, and it would take a Hell of a lot of effort on their part to make me change my mind.

Most of them are in the Senate unfortunately. I won't defend anyone who supports this sickening treasonous agenda.

I think Shlesh was addressing me...not sure

Still, I don't feel the need to defend anyone. I don't think any of my posts indicate that. There's been too much ACCUSING THE OTHER SIDE around here, mostly warranted. But mostly overkilled. It's partisan bickering and it's unproductive.

I'm about a solution to the CURRENT problem. Not the past. We need to end this conflict there. And I do think we need to HELP in stabilizing the region. I feel it is an important national as well as a world security issue.

If any one else has a better proposal...aside from troop withdrawal and leaving the region to it's demise....please come forward.

Because many democrats and republicans alike are saying the same thing. No surge...no pullout. That just tells me that the consensus is stay the course. Well....then what??

I ask for a solution and not a defeatist resolution.

Again, please come forward. The president and I are all ears.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1500000/images/_1502540_bush150.jpg

Hardrock69
01-11-2007, 12:15 PM
Originally posted by Warham
Yeah, how many times did the inspectors needed to be kicked out and let back in before the inspection process was considered a success? Five, six? Too many.

That is irrelevant.

It WAS considered a success.

Therefore themonkey had no authorization.

Warham
01-12-2007, 08:48 PM
Originally posted by Hardrock69
That is irrelevant.

It WAS considered a success.

Therefore themonkey had no authorization.

No, it was an abject failure.

Saddam had enough time to book first-class tickets to Syria for all of his chemical supplies in between the several times they were removed/kicked to the curb/etc.

Nickdfresh
01-12-2007, 09:45 PM
Originally posted by Seshmeister
Unforgivable. What exactly are Democrat politicians for?

They universally voted to allow Bush to be able to choose anyone in the country, lock him up with no trial or contact with legal representation, and then torture them until they say they are a terrorist.

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition...

No Sesh, they didn't "universally allow" the above, they had no real power to stop it...

And Bush is about to get "The Waxman Inquisition!"
http://www.fpp.co.uk/online/03/09/images/Henry_Waxman_2.jpg

Nickdfresh
01-12-2007, 09:48 PM
Originally posted by Seshmeister
Your problem is that you see it as sides.

Even if your team fuck up you feel you need to defend them.

That's what US 'democracy' is built on. Sheep on both sides criticising the other side instead of stepping back and realising they are being used.

Guess what, you're not in the team.

Unlike those civil, gentile British Parliamentarian meetings.:)

FORD
01-12-2007, 09:53 PM
Originally posted by Warham
No, it was an abject failure.

Saddam had enough time to book first-class tickets to Syria for all of his chemical supplies in between the several times they were removed/kicked to the curb/etc.

And when the PNAC armies invade Syria and the weapons aren't there, THEN what will your excuse be??

Nickdfresh
01-12-2007, 09:54 PM
Originally posted by Warham
No, it was an abject failure.

Saddam had enough time to book first-class tickets to Syria for all of his chemical supplies in between the several times they were removed/kicked to the curb/etc.

Yeah, and 9/11 was an "inside job" too, huh War?:rolleyes:

Everyone loves a good politically expedient, self-serving conspiracy theory that is complete bullshit and has no basis in fact nor evidence.

Whatever helps the chickenhawks sleep in the roost at night...

Nitro Express
01-13-2007, 03:07 AM
I have a friend who just did 1.5 years in Iraq. He's a litle worried he's going to be called back up. I just joked that him and his wife are fluent in Spanish so go to Costa Rica instead. LOL!

I've always been of the attitude that soldiers should follow orders but if Bush calls more troops up, I wouldn't give a rat's ass if all of them had a big "Fuck You!" sit in and then we started impeachment proceedings on the president.

What kind of message would this send? Our troops can thing for themselves. The world knows the US can fight and they respect what we can do militarily. They just don't like us abusing that power. Pulling out of Iraq won't look defeatist at all. We took something that sucked so bad, we gave it back. LOL!

Nitro Express
01-13-2007, 03:29 AM
Originally posted by FORD
I've never defended anyone who voted for that fucking war, and I never will.

I don't defend the Constitution Shredding Act of 2001 either, but it was shoved down everyone's throats without much time to read it, let alone debate it. They should have known better, but it was probably some fucking "symbol of national unity in the face of a tragic attack on this country" or whatever.

Bottom line is that NO bill should ever be brought to a vote without adequate time to review it. And I'd go as far as to say that you aren't allowed to vote on it unless you can prove you read it. Or at least had enough of your staff read it so you know what the fuck it does.

The day 9/11 happened I was more scared at what our own govt. would do since they now had the excuse to whittle are freedoms away in the mass frenzy

Nitro Express
01-13-2007, 03:32 AM
Many of the Republicans just voted "yes" on the Patriot Act without even reading it. Of course the thing was as thick as an accordian so what the hell, let's just vote the party line. What's scary is how much of that goes on.

Warham
01-14-2007, 09:46 PM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Yeah, and 9/11 was an "inside job" too, huh War?:rolleyes:

No, I don't believe that crap.

If it was an inside job, Clinton was in on it.

:D

Warham
01-14-2007, 09:47 PM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
And Bush is about to get "The Waxman Inquisition!"
http://www.fpp.co.uk/online/03/09/images/Henry_Waxman_2.jpg

All symbolism and no substance.

If the Democrats REALLY wanted to stop this war, they would have an ACTUAL vote to cut off the funding altogether.

Why won't they do that??

FORD
01-14-2007, 10:52 PM
Originally posted by Warham
All symbolism and no substance.

If the Democrats REALLY wanted to stop this war, they would have an ACTUAL vote to cut off the funding altogether.

Why won't they do that??

Unfortunately, too many of them are on the AIPAC payroll.

And AIPAC is a branch office of Likud Zionfascism Inc.

Steny WHORE, Rahm Immanuel, and Holy Joe Liarman want Iraq permanently occupied and Iran invaded as much as Chimpy does.