PDA

View Full Version : Why the recruiting will continue.



Steve Savicki
01-29-2007, 01:24 PM
http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,123574,00.html

In an action branded a backdoor draft by some critics, the military over the past several years has held tens of thousands of Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen and Marines on the job and in war zones beyond their retirement dates or enlistment length.

It is a widely disliked practice that the Pentagon, under new Defense Secretary Robert Gates, is trying to figure out how to cut back on.

Gates has ordered that the practice - known as "stop loss" - must "be minimized." At the same time, he is looking for ways to decrease the hardship for troops and their families, recruit more people for a larger military and reassess how the active duty and reserves are used.

"It's long overdue," said Jules Lobel, vice president of the Center for Constitutional Rights and lawyer for some in the military who have challenged the policy in court.

"It has created terrible problems of morale," Lobel said last week. "It has in some cases made Soldiers feel that they were duped or deceived in how they were recruited."

Gates has asked the chief of each service branch for a plan by the end of February on how they would rely less on stop loss.

The authority has been used off and on for years and was revived by all services to some extent after the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.

As an example, the Army revived it in early 2002 to keep people with some skills or specialties deemed critical to the fight against terrorism and later used it to retain whole units, according to an Army chronology of the policy.

Pentagon officials provided no figures on how many people the policy has affected. Yet just in the Army, it is in the tens of thousands.

The Army Times newspaper reported in September that 10,000 Soldiers were being held in the service at the time. That compared with 25,000 at one point in 2003, according to the account.

The Navy stopped a few hundred Sailors from leaving in the year after the terrorist attacks and used the policy again after the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq in 2003.

The Marine Corps used it from January through August of 2003 and at the high point had some 3,400 active duty troops and 440 reservists held in service under the authority, said 1st Lt. Blanca E. Binstock, a spokeswoman.

The Air Force did not have statistics immediately available.

The Defense Department says the main reason for the policy is to keep units whole for deployments, regardless of whether service time is up for some individuals in the unit.

"It's based on unit cohesion," former Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld once said when a Soldier questioned him about the policy during Rumsfeld's visit to the staging area in Kuwait that is used for troops going into Iraq.

"The principle is that - in the event there is something that requires a unit to be involved in, and people are in a personal situation where their time was ending - they put a stop-loss on it so cohesion is maintained," Rumsfeld said.

Rumsfeld said the policy was "something you prefer not to have to use in a perfect world." He said it was basically a sound principle and well understood among Soldiers.

A half-dozen lawsuits have unsuccessfully challenged the policy. Courts have agreed that the Pentagon involuntarily can extend deployments if the president believes the practice is essential to national security.

Though families dislike the policy and some troops oppose it, others accept it as a fact of life in wartime.

Others, including lawmakers who have pushed for years for a larger military, have criticized the policy as a method for increasing the size of the force through back channels at the detriment of those who volunteered.

Reversing previous administration thinking, President Bush said last month that the military should be larger.

One of Gates' first major decisions upon replacing Rumsfeld in December was to recommend that the Army's troop strength be increased by 65,000 Soldiers, to a total of 547,000 worldwide and that the Marines grow by 27,000 to 202,000.

Gates' effort to stop keeping troops in the service after their commitment expires is part of a wider effort - laid out in a Jan. 19 memo - that also ordered new incentives for those who deploy early or often or are extended.

The more widely noticed parts of that memo said Gates wants to limit involuntary mobilization for reserve forces to a year at any one time and make it a goal to limit active forces to a year deployed and two years at home base in between deployments. Most only get a year at home base now.

Besides extended service length, I believe soldiers were duped already coming into this war.
Is this enough to slam the Repubs hard?
How is Sonny going to comment on this one?

Nitro Express
01-29-2007, 03:43 PM
I almost joined the military out of college but I refused to sign anything because I didn't like the clauses in the contract. Talk about a high pressure sales group. I wanted guarentees on certain issues and they wouldn't give those guarentees.

They opperate like a cross between a used car saleman, a mortician, and a loan shark.

They even went so far to call me a coward. No a coward is someone who doesn't fight for their country when they are REALLY needed. It's a sucker who signs a contract they don't understand.

It's deal making and to the people they are avfter, caveat emptor!

After seeing family members and friends come home from Vietnam all fucked up when I was a kid, I have always had a high distrust of the military and the govt. Sometimes you have to do your duty, but don't let these used car salespeople shame you into it. First they will hit you up with the adventure card, then the greed card (we will pay for your college and even give you $20,000 up front), then they will try and make you look like a coward and a quitter. Con artists play the same mind games.

Steve Savicki
01-29-2007, 03:47 PM
If I were in Iraq, I'd leave as soon as my time was complete.

I bet Rummy will be getting the blame for all this disorganization of the military he's responsible for.

hideyoursheep
01-29-2007, 06:39 PM
Originally posted by Nitro Express
I almost joined the military out of college but I refused to sign anything because I didn't like the clauses in the contract. Talk about a high pressure sales group. I wanted guarentees on certain issues and they wouldn't give those guarentees.

What sort of clauses were you expecting, Nitro?

LoungeMachine
01-29-2007, 07:37 PM
Originally posted by Steve Savicki
If I were in Iraq......

allow me to finish that thought.....


you'd be a victim of fragging. :rolleyes:

Nitro Express
01-30-2007, 12:21 AM
Originally posted by hideyoursheep
What sort of clauses were you expecting, Nitro?

What I wanted was to be a commercial piolet and the military route is one you can take. Ask anyone who has joined the military. Everyone negotiates a contract and not all the contracts are the same.

I wanted a guarentee if I didn't qualify as a piolet, I was out. I was warned by a commercial piolet that they would try and get me to sign something that would put me into another assignment and if being a piolet was not in the agenda then not to sign something that would make me a weapons officer or a recon officer.

They wouldn't agree to my terms so I said "latter".

It's all what you want out of the military and I'm not knocking people in the military. Everyone knows you can be called up but like every contract, you better know what's in the fine print. Many people don't. Heck, one journalist said they went to Iraq with Donald Rumsfeld and during a refueling stop in Ireland, most of the military people at the base there didn't know who he was. I find that amazing.

hideyoursheep
01-30-2007, 03:33 PM
Originally posted by Nitro Express
What I wanted was to be a commercial piolet and the military route is one you can take. Ask anyone who has joined the military. Everyone negotiates a contract and not all the contracts are the same.
I wanted a guarentee if I didn't qualify as a piolet, I was out. I was warned by a commercial piolet that they would try and get me to sign something that would put me into another assignment and if being a piolet was not in the agenda then not to sign something that would make me a weapons officer or a recon officer.
They wouldn't agree to my terms so I said "latter".

That's what they call "reclassification." In other words, you're getting paid for us to train you to be a pilot,and if you can't meet our standards,you will be reassigned to a position that we need filled. That's also done with Ranger and SF trainees as well.You could have had a good career as an officer in any other capacity-shouldn't have let that stop you.WOC (Warrant Officers Candidate)school is also an option for enlisted members with no college to become pilots or serve in an officer capacity of some kind (usually chopper pilots).From what I've heard it ain't no cakewalk.
BTW, there's nothing wrong with being a recon officer!

:gun:

Nitro Express
01-30-2007, 05:39 PM
It all worked out for the better. Commercial piolets are either out of a job now or they are flying making 30% of their regular pay.

That just didn't work out so now I'm in real estate doing quite well actually. I'm not knocking anyone or recon officers.

I'm just making a point it's good to know what you want out of the military when you talk to a recruiter and deffinately read the contract and don't be afraid to negotiate. They don't own you until you sign up.

I have a civilian piolets license.

LoungeMachine
01-30-2007, 05:54 PM
Originally posted by Nitro Express


Commercial piolets .

Is that a ballet dancer who gets paid?

hideyoursheep
01-30-2007, 06:08 PM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Is that a ballet dancer who gets paid?


:lol: You're relentless.

hideyoursheep
01-30-2007, 06:09 PM
Originally posted by Nitro Express
It all worked out for the better. Commercial piolets are either out of a job now or they are flying making 30% of their regular pay.

That just didn't work out so now I'm in real estate doing quite well actually. I'm not knocking anyone or recon officers.

I'm just making a point it's good to know what you want out of the military when you talk to a recruiter and deffinately read the contract and don't be afraid to negotiate. They don't own you until you sign up.

I have a civilian piolets license.

I know you weren't knockin'.It's :cool: