What makes a great guitarist?

[Shaun Ponsonby]

The age old question. An argument I've been having for a long while, with a friend of mine. He believes it's just skill, and nothing else. I think thats the wrong answer, it has to be more than that.

They have to have a combination of...

*Skill
*Soul
*A certain amount of songwriting ability
*To play solos that suit the songs
*To have the ability to make somebody totally lose themselves in the music.

Discuss...

[Coyote]

And the ability fuse influences into something completely different and unique.

[Shaun Ponsonby]

Exactly, exactly

[Mr Badguy]

I don`t know if there is an answer to that question.

It`s a pretty intangible quality that makes someone great.

If there was a textbook for it then we`d all be doing it, right?

What makes Jimi Hendrix making a racket with feedback and a whammy bar genius rather than some dumbfuck who can`t even play making a noise just like it?

It`s all in the way he does it.

[Shaun Ponsonby]

I'm really just asking for people's opinions, there is obviously no real answer.

[ThrillsNSpills]

Originally posted by Mr Badguy
I don`t know if there is an answer to that question.

What makes Jimi Hendrix making a racket with feedback and a whammy bar genius rather than some dumbfuck who can`t even play making a noise just like it?

It`s all in the way he does it.

That's a grate question and I think it's a bunch of attrbutes but in Jimi's case if you can remember the solo in Freedom (studio) one thing he does when soloing is just play a c-hair after the beat. I think that's part of the magic in his phrasing.
Or in the octave climb in All Along the Watchtower which is probably a better example.
It's hard to know if it was a calculated move on his part or if that was just how he did it. (or if he stole it from Miles Davis)

[Mr Badguy]

Originally posted by ThrillsNSpills
That's a grate question and I think it's a bunch of attrbutes but in Jimi's case if you can remember the solo in Freedom (studio) one thing he does when soloing is just play a c-hair after the beat. I think that's part of the magic in his phrasing.
Or in the octave climb in All Along the Watchtower which is probably a better example.
It's hard to know if it was a calculated move on his part or if that was just how he did it. (or if he stole it from Miles Davis)

Absolutely.

If I were to use a couple of examples:

"Star spangled banner" from Woodstock: To the untrained (or uneducated) ear, a cocophanous racket, but in reality the destruction of the National anthem for the times. I`ve got the tab book, but it`s so much more than a guy abusing the whammy bar on his guitar, you can play the notes but you can`t caputure the essence.

"Machine gun" from "Band of Gypsies": A man using a guitar to play notes from his very soul. Shit, you can feel it. Again, you can play the notes but there is something deeper that isn`t on the paper.

[Terry]

It's one of those things that's hard to itemize or describe, but you know it when you hear it.

[Jimmy Jingles]

To me...Stevie Ray Vaughan

Talk about someone pouring everything they have in them every fucking time he picked up the guitar.

The guy was fucking incredible.

[Panamark]

Any guitarist that you experience "feeling" when they
are playing, is a good guitarist.

Anyone can play a first position "D" chord..
Yet real players can pour their entire heart, soul
and feelings into that same simple chord.
And you can feel it !

Some of those old Blues guys with open
tunings and one finger chords were phenomenal.

Its all about the emotion produced by the playing..

Well to me, anyways..

[Coyote]

Vibrato plays a pretty important part here, too.

One can add some serious expressional power to a note.

[binnie]

To me, a great guitar player is like a great singer: as soon as they start to play you just know its them, even if you've never heard the piece of music before.

An example. Years ago I bought a collection of covers Sebastian Bach had done, and when the solo came round in "Communication Breakdown" my ears pricked up and I thought "damn that sounds like Slash". I checked the linear notes, and I was right.

To have that recognizability you have to have something unique beyond skill, beyond being able to play with feeling (which is more important that skill) or energy. Its the ability to communicate a unique character, just like a great voice does, that makes a great player.

[Panamark]

Yeah, both good points..

Our old friend EVH is instantly recognizable..
First time I heard "Beat it" I knew it was Ed.

Although I can counter this a little, Ive heard
songs by Satriani and Vai that were obviously
them, but didnt seem to have any emotion
in them.....

Would you still classify that as greatness, Binnie ??

[Panamark]

The solo to "Stairway" gets me everytime.
The amount of feel and emotion Pagey got
out of those basic blues scales, is phenomenal...

[Panamark]

Same goes for Dave Gilmour...

(On the less is more trip)

[binnie]

Originally posted by Panamark


Although I can counter this a little, Ive heard
songs by Satriani and Vai that were obviously
them, but didnt seem to have any emotion
in them.....

Would you still classify that as greatness, Binnie ??


mmmm....


If Vai and Satch both aired new material, and I had to guess which was which, I bet I couldn't do it.

Having said that, you've got me thinking about emotion and feel now, maybe they are essential too....

[Matt White]

What makes a great guitarist?

1.) A KILLER VIBRATO

2.)Taste....knows that what you DON'T play is as important as what you do play.....

3.)Style...the absorbtion of a wide variety of influences...all repackaged into something new.....

4.) TIGHT PANTS

[binnie]

Originally posted by Matt White


4.) TIGHT PANTS

The crucial factor.

[Matt White]

Originally posted by binnie
The crucial factor.

It's what they all have in common....

helps stimulate good circulation............

...the little Girls understand...."

[binnie]

"We have armadillo's down out trousers. The size, it's frightening...."

[katie]

I know ed gets slammed alot but i loved the way he used to OWN & WORK the stage,
Especially with Dave when they used to play Little Guitars live.
Not many guitarists have those showmanship qualities.

Katie

[Steve Savicki]

Gentlemen,

A great guitarist can be anything from a guitar legend to music recorded on a 25 cent brand-new-still-sealed cassette found in a budget bin.

I happen to listen to both.

[Shaun Ponsonby]

I think the emotion is very important. Its hard to get the emotion right when playing guitar. You've really got to lose yourself in it and, to borrow a cliche, "let the music do the talking". Knowing when to do a solo properly is important.

Listen to "Big Trouble"-as technically good as that solo is, I've always thought it was out of place on the song, it didn't fit with the tone of the song in my poinion, and thats probably because Vai is more concerned about moving his fingers fast then he is about making great music that makes sense.

[binnie]

Originally posted by Shaun Ponsonby
and thats probably because Vai is more concerned about moving his fingers fast then he is about making great music that makes sense.

Bingo.

however, in Vai's defence I think he is the best of the fret-wankers. He does use melody quite reguarly, which often help hold his pieces together.

Far more so than Satch etc....

[nosuchluck]

Originally posted by binnie
Bingo.

however, in Vai's defence I think he is the best of the fret-wankers. He does use melody quite reguarly, which often help hold his pieces together.

Far more so than Satch etc....

Doesn't sound like you've heard either guitarist...

Vai is a great musician - not all his music is to my liking, but he isn't making the music for me. When Ed Van Halen tried to do that (since we seem to be comparing guitarists), he came up with VH3.

[Shaun Ponsonby]

I'm not questioning Vai's technical ability...my Alan, he can fookin' SHRED the FUCK out of most.

BUT...

He seems ro have no emotion in him whatsoever. I'm pretty sure if his entire family died in a massacre after being held hostage by raving lunatics, he would just go "ah, well...these things happen".

[binnie]

Originally posted by nosuchluck
Doesn't sound like you've heard either guitarist...

Vai is a great musician - not all his music is to my liking, but he isn't making the music for me. When Ed Van Halen tried to do that (since we seem to be comparing guitarists), he came up with VH3.

All I was trying to say was is that for me Vai is the most musical of the fret-wankers. He has an ear for melody and the sense of how to return to it throughout a piece of music, which a lot of similar guitar players lack.

Having said that, I still don't feel that he is a great guitar player, more of a great guitar technician.

Just my preference, nothing more or less...

[nosuchluck]

Well, that's a lot of conflicting opinions on Vai.
I wouldn't put myself down as a Vai fan, but to dismiss him as merely a "technician" smacks of not having heard enough of his discography. Moreover, personally I think his 'shred' technique is overrated.
But surely we can agree to disagree.

Guitar driven instrumentals are far too often dismissed as 'wank-fests'. That's ok, I suppose - it's not a genre that many people can get into.

And Binnie, Joe Satriani has an excellent ear for melody.

[binnie]

Originally posted by nosuchluck


And Binnie, Joe Satriani has an excellent ear for melody.

Well, I must be missing something.

But I think agreeing to disagree is a good idea, or we could go round in circles....

[MAPRamone]

Originally posted by binnie
mmmm....


If Vai and Satch both aired new material, and I had to guess which was which, I bet I couldn't do it.



You haven't been listening much to either have you? Their tones are easy to distinguish from one another.

[MAPRamone]

Originally posted by Shaun Ponsonby
I'm not questioning Vai's technical ability...my Alan, he can fookin' SHRED the FUCK out of most.

BUT...

He seems ro have no emotion in him whatsoever. I'm pretty sure if his entire family died in a massacre after being held hostage by raving lunatics, he would just go "ah, well...these things happen".

I hear the 'lack of emotion' criticism of Vai often and i can't help but feel that a lot of it stems from the fact he is not a bluesy guitarist. When you compare him to SRV, sure he comes up short in that style. However i just think he's expressing emotions in a different vein or expressing different emotions altogether. I can certainly find emotion in his stuff, but when you approach his music, keep in mind he's a Zappa protege. That's where the weirdness comes from, and like in Zappa's case i relish it.

[nosuchluck]

Exactly. Well said.

[fe_lung]

Restraint. Never use 30 notes when one will do.

[Shaun Ponsonby]

Originally posted by MAPRamone
I hear the 'lack of emotion' criticism of Vai often and i can't help but feel that a lot of it stems from the fact he is not a bluesy guitarist. When you compare him to SRV, sure he comes up short in that style. However i just think he's expressing emotions in a different vein or expressing different emotions altogether. I can certainly find emotion in his stuff, but when you approach his music, keep in mind he's a Zappa protege. That's where the weirdness comes from, and like in Zappa's case i relish it.

There's been plenty of non-blues guitarists over the years who have had emotion of any sort. I've yet to feel it from Vai. Robbie Krieger is a flamenco guitarist for ALAN's sake. Plenty of metal guitarists get the emotion in a song (whether it be aggressive or softer) perfectly...and less and less of them are coming from blues backgrounds. Even Zappa got his emotion right ("Yo Mama" for example).

Vai rarley does (at least as far as I can tell).