Tomb Of Jesus and His Family Discovered in Israel

[Hardrock69]

Damn....I always said Jesus was a pile of bones, but I never expected anything like this to happen....

No..this is NOT a joke.

Story from Time magazine's website:

February 23, 2007 6:55
Jesus: Tales from the Crypt

Brace yourself. James Cameron, the man who brought you 'The Titanic' is back with another blockbuster. This time, the ship he's sinking is Christianity.

In a new documentary, Producer Cameron and his director, Simcha Jacobovici, make the starting claim that Jesus wasn't resurrected --the cornerstone of Christian faith-- and that his burial cave was discovered near Jerusalem. And, get this, Jesus sired a son with Mary Magdelene.

No, it's not a re-make of "The Da Vinci Codes'. It's supposed to be true.

Let's go back 27 years, when Israeli construction workers were gouging out the foundations for a new building in the industrial park in the Talpiyot, a Jerusalem suburb. of Jerusalem. The earth gave way, revealing a 2,000 year old cave with 10 stone caskets. Archologists were summoned, and the stone caskets carted away for examination. It took 20 years for experts to decipher the names on the ten tombs. They were: Jesua, son of Joseph, Mary, Mary, Mathew, Jofa and Judah, son of Jesua.
Israel's prominent archeologist Professor Amos Kloner didn't associate the crypt with the New Testament Jesus. His father, after all, was a humble carpenter who couldn't afford a luxury crypt for his family. And all were common Jewish names.

There was also this little inconvenience that a few miles away, in the old city of Jerusalem, Christians for centuries had been worshipping the empty tomb of Christ at the Church of the Holy Sepulcher. Christ's resurrection, after all, is the main foundation of the faith, proof that a boy born to a carpenter's wife in a manger is the Son of God.

But film-makers Cameron and Jacobovici claim to have amassed evidence through DNA tests, archeological evidence and Biblical studies, that the 10 coffins belong to Jesus and his family.

Ever the showman, (Why does this remind me of the impresario in another movie,"King Kong", whose hubris blinds him to the dangers of an angry and very large ape?) Cameron is holding a New York press conference on Monday at which he will reveal three coffins, supposedly those of Jesus of Nazareth, his mother Mary and Mary Magdalene. News about the film, which will be shown soon on Discovery Channel, Britain's Channel 4, Canada's Vision, and Israel's Channel 8, has been a hot blog topic in the Middle East (check out a personal favorite: Israelity Bites) Here in the Holy Land, Biblical Archeology is a dangerous profession. This 90-minute documentary is bound to outrage Christians and stir up a titanic debate between believers and skeptics. Stay tuned.


http://time-blog.com/middle_east/


Here is the official website...it goes live at 11:30 AM EST on Monday the 26th:

http://www.jesusfamilytomb.com/

Here is the official website of the film-maker who made this with James Cameron.....he is otherwise known as the "Naked Archaeologist" on the History Channel:

http://www.simchaj.ca/

http://i19.tinypic.com/2ccntj7.jpg

Another story at Israelinsider.com:

Film depicts discovery of coffins of Jesus, his son Judah, and two Marys

By Israel Insider staff and partners February 23, 2007

The cave in which Jesus was buried has been found in Jerusalem, claim the makers of a new documentary film -- including a coffin containing his bones.

If it proves true, the discovery, which will be revealed at a press conference in New York Monday, could shake up the Christian world as one of the most significant archeological finds in history.

The coffins which, according to the filmmakers held the remains of Jesus of Nazareth, his mother Mary and Mary Magdalene will be displayed for the first time on Monday in New York.

The documentary, titled "The Burial Cave of Jesus," is a joint production by Israeli-born Canadian documentary maker Simcha Jacobovici and three-time-Oscar-winning Canadian film director James Cameron (Titanic, The Terminator).

The film tells the exciting and tortuous story of the archeological discovery. The 2000-year-old cave had already been found in 1980 in Jerusalem's Talpiyot neighbourhood. In it were 10 coffins, six of which bore inscriptions, which -- translated into English -- included the names "Jesus son of Joseph," twice "Maria," and "Judah son of Jesus."

The second Maria is hypothesized to be Maria Magdalene, while the tomb bearing the name Judah could indicate Jesus had a son. That's what the filmmakers claim.

If true, the find could be one of the most significant in the history of archeology and shake the Christian world.

But the senior Israeli archaeologist who researched the tombs after their discovery, and at the time deciphered the inscriptions, cast doubt on the claim.

"It's a beautiful story but without any proof whatsoever," Professor Amos Kloner, who had published the findings of his research in the Israeli periodical Atigot in 1996, told Deutsche Presse-Agentur dpa Friday.

"The names that are found on the tombs are names that are similar to the names of the family of Jesus," he conceded.

"But those were the most common names found among Jews in the first centuries BCE and CE," he added.

Kloner dismissed the combination of names found in the cave as a "coincidence."

The Israel Antiquities Authority (IAA), which is keeping the caskets in its archive in the town of Beit Shemesh near Jerusalem, declined to comment on the documentary, saying it had not researched the caskets and that its duty was only to safeguard them.

The IAA nevertheless sent two of the caskets to the news conference in New York.

Decades of research
The findings in the cave, including the decipherment of the inscriptions, were first revealed about ten years ago by internationally renowned Israeli archeologist Professor Amos Kloner.

Since their discovery, the caskets were kept in the Israeli Antiquities Authority archive in Beit Shemesh, but now two have been sent to New York for their first public exhibition.

Although the cave was discovered nearly 30 years ago and the casket inscriptions decoded ten years ago, the filmmakers are the first to establish that the cave was in fact the burial site of Jesus and his family.

The film, which documents the stages of the discovery, is the result of three years labor and research. It will be broadcast on the international Discovery Channel, Britain's Channel 4, Canada's Vision and Israel's Channel 8, which also took part in the film's production.

According to the filmmakers, the film's claim is based on close work with world-famous scientists, archeologists, statisticians, DNA specialists and antiquities experts.

http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Culture/10764.htm

The official book publisher's webpage at Harper-Collins:

http://www.harpercollins.com/books/9780061192029/The_Jesus_Family_Tomb/index.aspx
http://www.harpercollins.com/harperimages/isbn/large/9/9780061192029.jpg


So.....here is a bit about the documentary and book release and broadcast dates:


Apparently the documentary film will .be shown on various TV broadcasts soon On March 4th, American cable televsion's "The Discovery Channel" will air the broadcast. It will also air on the "international" Discovery channel. In Britain, the program will be shown on Channel 4, while in Canada it will air on "Vision" and in Israel on Channel 8 which took part in the production of the show. It is as yet unclear whether or not the film will be broadcast simultaenously or on different dates. The news conference will likely clarify that point on Monday.
The book describing the discovery of the tomb, the investigation thereafter and the making of the film is set for release in America to the public on Tuesday, February 27th. The book will not debut in Britain apparently until April 7th. The book is being published in America by Harper-Collins.


I decided to post it here in the Front Line due to the volatile nature of this subject.

This is gonna be a hornet's nest for sure.

Jimmy Swaggart is REALLY gonna be sobbing after this comes out:
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/38691000/jpg/_38691859_swaggart238.jpg

[Nitro Express]

Christianity is waining in the rest of the industrialized world. Look at Europe. The US is the strongest Christian haven but I think it will wain here as well as time goes on.

If the Jesus most modern Chritians believe in existed, he would have returned back to earth in the mid 90's since the Roman calender runs around a half decade late. Maybe the born again Christians I know aren't worthy because they haven't been raptured yet.

[Va Beach VH Fan]

I'm not even close to be what one would consider a religious person, but I took a tour of the Stations of the Cross in Jerusalem several years ago... It was a fascinating tour, not only in the different stations, but just watching the emotion of the other people there....

[LoungeMachine]

Jesus wasn't ressurected?

Shit, next someone's going to tell me Adam and Eve was a jewish play, and the Story of the Ark was all a parable.....

The Burning Bush was ganja though, right?

whew...:cool:

[Nickdfresh]

Oh c'mon!

The War on Terrah signals the rapture is near as we are fighting in an end times struggle between Christianity and Islam as to which religion is the true word of God/least corrupted with total bullshit...

[WACF]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine


The Burning Bush was ganja though, right?

whew...:cool:


Shit...I always thought the Burning Bush was a hot redhead!

[Hardrock69]

Hey I will accept either one!
:D

Gimme a hot redhead and some kickass ganja, and I will be screaming "Oh God!" for real!
LOL!
:D

[FORD]

Originally posted by Hardrock69

But film-makers Cameron and Jacobovici claim to have amassed evidence through DNA tests, archeological evidence and Biblical studies, that the 10 coffins belong to Jesus and his family.



Ummmm..... DNA tests??

Based on what?

Did God send Cameron a sample of His DNA?

What exactly are they going to compare to the DNA of these bodies?

[frankenshit]

Isnt cameron promoting a movies. Hard to believe this so called evidence hasnt been brought to the attention of the media for 27 years. I also have a hard time believing this BS considering its not front page of every print and tv media. And he has DNA, what DNA does he have to prove its Jesus. ANother left wing hollywood fuck trying to disprove christianity.

[FORD]

Originally posted by frankenshit
ANother left wing hollywood fuck trying to disprove christianity.

Left winger??

Nope. (http://www.newsmeat.com/celebrity_political_donations/James_Cameron.php)

$5,000 to the Repukes, and the only "Democrats" he supports are hardcore DLC'ers.

That would make him a Republican, posing as a "centrist".

No left winger would ever use a Celine Dion song to sell a movie. :cool:

[DLRdelight!]

Originally posted by FORD
Ummmm..... DNA tests??

Based on what?

Did God send Cameron a sample of His DNA?

What exactly are they going to compare to the DNA of these bodies?

the only dna testing i could think of jesus to his mother mary???

[frankenshit]

Ford isnt celine canadian and has voiced her opinion about her dislike of bush? in my opinion the hollywood left would put her on their soundtrack. who knows, anyway, i think this is another attempt to discredit christianity.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by frankenshit
, i think this is another attempt to discredit christianity.

Christians do a fine enough job of that on their own...

They don't need Hollywood for that. :rolleyes:

[frankenshit]

hows that? i dont understand how christians do a fine job. perhaps hypocrisy by not living the word and teachings but i dont see how they going around saying jesus isnt lord and is nothing but bones,

[PlexiBrown]

hows that? i dont understand how christians do a fine job. perhaps hypocrisy by not living the word and teachings but i dont see how they going around saying jesus isnt lord and is nothing but bones,

It's like the "born again" christians who think that all you have to do is accept Jesus as your personal lord and savior but they still act and behave in a way that is not very "Christ like". They also like to use certain bible passages that at the time fit their purposes and agenda without even knowing what they are rambling about. They think God is some separate entity that lives "out there" somewhere. They equate God to "the big surveillance camera in the sky" who is going to punish you if you don't obey certain rules. Then they pick and choose which rules to obey anyway. Catholics do the similar crap with their, "as long as I confess my sins I get a fresh start so why bother changing and practicing what I or "they" preach". It is also safe to say that many of these "religious" people have never even read the bible cover to cover let alone understanding it and living it. Then long ago religions needed something to keep everything even more fear based so they invented a cosmic satan. Now they can really try to hold the "afterlife" over people's heads and increase memberships. Hopefully people will realize that they don't have to accept beliefs that they inherited from other people (family, friends and churches) who didn't know any better in the first place.

[glensfallspaul]

It always amazes me how many potshots are taken at Christianity -- but then again, that's what politically correct right now. James Cameron wouldn't dare to try to debunk the origins of Islam.

[hideyoursheep]

*Maury Povich*

...."When it comes to baby Jesus.......


....Joseph,.........

You are NOT the father..

* the chase backstage/ editing beeps*:eek:

[frankenshit]

Yea well confession alone will not save you. In order to receive forgiveness yes you have to confess your sins but you also must change your ways that you originally asked forgiveness for. Equate like being married. You cheat on your wife and ask her to forgive you. If you continue to cheat than you cant blame her for packing your hbags and telling you to hit the road. PLEXI, i agree with you 100% that some christians like to qoute scripture but do not live the true word and discipline. Other than tithing which the critics will point out is payment for placement in heaven can you honestly say that the commandment and teaching of the bible is bad where people are suppose to live in peace and love one another?

[sadaist]

Originally posted by FORD
Ummmm..... DNA tests??

Based on what?

Did God send Cameron a sample of His DNA?

What exactly are they going to compare to the DNA of these bodies?



Just for the sake of argument, let's suppose that these DNA samples ARE from Jesus, and that Jesus was the son of God.

What happens if scientists use that DNA and create a clone?

[gunsnmotley]

people are hypocrites, thats not a reason to hate christianity?? whats so bad about trying to be a good person and treating others as you would like to be treated?? TO me it seems like basic ways people should act.

[hideyoursheep]

Originally posted by frankenshit
Yea well confession alone will not save you.


Not true according to some branches of christianity, which is why it is difficult for me to accept 1 religion over another. The baptists are a perfect example of 1 doctrine with disagreement.
It's ALL a matter of faith, no one knows the absolute truth.

And many a war have been fought and millions if not billions have been killed over someone's interpretation of a truth that they themselves do not know.

[hideyoursheep]

Originally posted by sadaist
Just for the sake of argument, let's suppose that these DNA samples ARE from Jesus, and that Jesus was the son of God.

What happens if scientists use that DNA and create a clone?

If DNA can clone the son of GOD, but can't convict Orenthal, I'm moving to Saturn. :eek:

[hideyoursheep]

Originally posted by DLRdelight!
the only dna testing i could think of jesus to his mother mary???

....and Joseph?

[FORD]

Exactly my point. Neither Mary, nor Joseph, nor God, or Jesus Himself have DNA on file at the Jerusalem police department database. So what is the purpose of doing a DNA test on these bones when it cannot possibly prove or disprove that these are the remains of Jesus Christ or any members of His family.

[sadaist]

Originally posted by gunsnmotley
people are hypocrites, thats not a reason to hate christianity?? whats so bad about trying to be a good person and treating others as you would like to be treated?? TO me it seems like basic ways people should act.

Exactly. I actually went to a Christian High School for a while, but switched back to public school due to the way they said I HAD to believe. I don't care what religion anyone is, or even if they don't believe at all. People can choose what's best for themselves.

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you

[FORD]

Originally posted by sadaist
Just for the sake of argument, let's suppose that these DNA samples ARE from Jesus, and that Jesus was the son of God.

What happens if scientists use that DNA and create a clone?

Doesn't matter.

Because if Jesus were in such a grave, it would mean that he didn't resurrect himself from the dead, and that would mean he wasn't the son of God.

Which is exactly the conclusion that Cameron is trying to buy here. Though the DNA tests cannot possibly prove the answer one way or the other.

[PlexiBrown]

whats so bad about trying to be a good person and treating others as you would like to be treated??

There is noting bad about this. What is bad is that most of the religious people in the world claiming that their religion is the "right" one and if you don't follow their religion or their beliefs you are going to burn in some place called hell forever. Most of these same people don't practice what they claim to believe of preach either. These are the hypocrites.

[Hardrock69]

Look people, it is simple:

1. DNA can prove if Jesua is the son of Joseph and one of the Marys...

2. DNA can prove if Judah is the son of Jesua and the other Mary

That is the main thing concerning DNA testing.

Anyone who thinks they can compare DNA to someone alive today and it will actually mean something are out of their skull.

Though if they can determine which haplogroup they belong to, a person might say they belong to the same haplogroup as the people in the tomb, for what that is worth.

The DNA thing is only part of the story.

We will see what they say tomorrow, and then Tuesday I will read the story for myself when the book comes out.

My interest regarding Christianity has always been the historical aspect (meaning actual evidence), and this is just another discovery in that realm.

I will leave all the arguments about religious and supernatural crap to those who want to argue about it.

[PlexiBrown]

It always amazes me how many potshots are taken at Christianity

Not at christianity.....just at the phoney hypocrites who claim to be born again christians. All of these phoney people who claim to love Jesus. Imagine how Jesus feels knowing that all of these people are claiming that they love him when in fact most of them are saying it out of fear or because they were told they had to from a very young age. Then they go out trying to "save" everybody. Most religions are just as bad and full of hypocrites.

[Hardrock69]

Good call.

My intent has not been to destroy people's spiritual values, but merely to point out that simply saying you believe in something does not mean it really ever happened or existed.

Just because some ancient writings state someone was resurrected and rose up to the sky one day does not mean those statements should be taken literally. The Bible is FULL of allegory...much stuff that was not meant to be taken literally.

And if said story applies to someone like Jesus, where there was no physical proof he ever existed at all, it makes it even further removed from reality.

I would rather people have beliefs in reality, not in stories with no (or limited) basis in fact.

Reality vs. Fiction

It is a conflict as old as the human race.

IF this is all true...Christians all over the world should be happy, as it would be ACTUAL physical proof that he did exist.

So those who say he never existed can be proven wrong.

[BITEYOASS]

Originally posted by FORD
Exactly my point. Neither Mary, nor Joseph, nor God, or Jesus Himself have DNA on file at the Jerusalem police department database. So what is the purpose of doing a DNA test on these bones when it cannot possibly prove or disprove that these are the remains of Jesus Christ or any members of His family.

Yeah, they took a few swab samples off of the crucifix. :rolleyes: Those scrolls should be on file somewhere.

[BITEYOASS]

James Cameron is gonna make himself the hollywood nutball. He'll probably take some pressure off of Mel Gibson.

[Jesus Christ]

Verily, it would seem that some work so hard trying to deny Me that it would be easier for them to believe. Mr. Cameron needeth to examine his own motives for his quest.

[BITEYOASS]

Originally posted by Jesus Christ
Verily, it would seem that some work so hard trying to deny Me that it would be easier for them to believe. Mr. Cameron needeth to examine his own motives for his quest.

Verily Lord, Mr. Cameron's motives in this project are of controversy in order to increase his Greed and Vanity. Similar to all of the other overpaid pig executives in Hollywood.

[shaggydoo]

So it seems like this may be a tale of resurrection after all...



















... the resurrection of a washed up has been film maker's career!

[Nitro Express]

I spent a year in Israel as a student. Jerusalem draws nutballs like shit does flies. All these people come there high on thier own spiritual grandure. The place is a tottal armpit in my oppinion. An old, ugly rocky place. I'll take a Maui sunset over that shit anyday.

[Nitro Express]

Christianity was forced apon me. I had no choice of religion when I was a kid. I would have had to run away from home to be free from Jesus. Deep down I always felt it was bullshit. I don't believe in the resurrection or the return of Jesus but there are some good moral lessons in the four gosphels. Jesus deffinately wasn't prejudice and was amazingly non judgemental. If anything, the gosphels point out how corrupt a organized religion can become and in the end, it was the Jewish leadership that sent Jesus to the cross.

What kept Christianity going is it altimately became a tool for the politicians to keep the population in line.

[DLRdelight!]

Originally posted by Nitro Express
Christianity was forced apon me. I had no choice of religion when I was a kid. I would have had to run away from home to be free from Jesus. Deep down I always felt it was bullshit. I don't believe in the resurrection or the return of Jesus but there are some good moral lessons in the four gosphels. Jesus deffinately wasn't prejudice and was amazingly non judgemental. If anything, the gosphels point out how corrupt a organized religion can become and in the end, it was the Jewish leadership that sent Jesus to the cross.

What kept Christianity going is it altimately became a tool for the politicians to keep the population in line.

same feelings here nitro

[Jesus Christ]

And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.

But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

My children, it saddens Me to hear that religion was forced upon you in My name :(

If ye know that this is not My teachings to do so, then continue to believe in My teachings and not the doctrines of man.

I hath a feeling that many millstones will be handed out on the day of judgment.

[Hardrock69]

Originally posted by Jesus Christ
Verily, it would seem that some work so hard trying to deny Me that it would be easier for them to believe. Mr. Cameron needeth to examine his own motives for his quest.

Oh so you are saying that they are going to announce they do not believe you ever existed?

What is the point of the press conference then?
:rolleyes:

[Blackflag]

Scholars, clergy slam Jesus documentary

AP - Jerusalem —

Archaeologists and clergymen in the Holy Land derided claims in a new documentary produced by the Oscar-winning director
James Cameron that contradict major Christian tenets. "The Lost Tomb of Christ," which the Discovery Channel will run on March 4, argues that 10 ancient ossuaries — small caskets used to store bones — discovered in a suburb of Jerusalem in 1980 may have contained the bones of Jesus and his family, according to a press release issued by the Discovery Channel.


One of the caskets even bears the title, "Judah, son of Jesus," hinting that Jesus may have had a son. And the very fact that Jesus had an ossuary would contradict the Christian belief that he was resurrected and ascended to heaven.

Most Christians believe Jesus' body spent three days at the site of the Church of the Holy Sepulcher in Jerusalem's Old City. The burial site identified in Cameron's documentary is in a southern Jerusalem neighborhood nowhere near the church.

In 1996, when the BBC aired a short documentary on the same subject, archaeologists challenged the claims. Amos Kloner, the first archaeologist to examine the site, said the idea fails to hold up by archaeological standards but makes for profitable television.

"They just want to get money for it," Kloner said.

The claims have raised the ire of Christian leaders in the Holy Land.

"The historical, religious and archaeological evidence show that the place where Christ was buried is the Church of the Resurrection," said Attallah Hana, a Greek Orthodox clergyman in Jerusalem. The documentary, he said, "contradicts the religious principles and the historic and spiritual principles that we hold tightly to."

Stephen Pfann, a biblical scholar at the University of the Holy Land in Jerusalem who was interviewed in the documentary, said the film's hypothesis holds little weight.

"I don't think that Christians are going to buy into this," Pfann said. "But skeptics, in general, would like to see something that pokes holes into the story that so many people hold dear."

"How possible is it?" Pfann said. "On a scale of one through 10 — 10 being completely possible — it's probably a one, maybe a one and a half."

Pfann is even unsure that the name "Jesus" on the caskets was read correctly. He thinks it's more likely the name "Hanun."

Kloner also said the filmmakers' assertions are false.

"It was an ordinary middle-class Jerusalem burial cave," Kloner said. "The names on the caskets are the most common names found among Jews at the time."

Archaeologists also balk at the filmmaker's claim that the James Ossuary — the center of a famous antiquities fraud in
Israel — might have originated from the same cave. In 2005, Israel charged five suspects with forgery in connection with the infamous bone box.

"I don't think the James Ossuary came from the same cave," said Dan Bahat, an archaeologist at Bar-Ilan University. "If it were found there, the man who made the forgery would have taken something better. He would have taken Jesus."

Although the documentary makers claim to have found the tomb of Jesus, the British Broadcasting Corporation beat them to the punch by 11 years.

Osnat Goaz, a spokeswoman for the Israeli government agency responsible for archaeology, declined to comment before the documentary was aired.

:fu:

[Blackflag]

Originally posted by Hardrock69
Look people, it is simple:

1. DNA can prove if Jesua is the son of Joseph and one of the Marys...

2. DNA can prove if Judah is the son of Jesua and the other Mary


Now how are you going to do that when you can't prove the identity of any one of those bodies? You don't have confirmed dna from any one of those people.

You're right...that is simple.

:alien:

[Hardrock69]

If you go dig up a skeleton that is 10,000 years old, what his name is or who he was does not matter. All you have is a skeleton with some DNA.

The official website is now up and running, but there is one thing not clear, and that is how many bones/skeletons or whatever were found. I found mention of 3 skulls. Also they say on the website they compared DNA from "human residue" from the ossuary of Jesus and the ossuary of one of the Marys, and found there was no match. That would be the case if they were married. The DNA would match only if they were siblings.

However, since I obviously have to spell it out in great detail, here is the perfect scenario:

IF they had bones in all of the principle ossuaries, or were at least able to extract DNA from "human residue" (whatever the fuck that means) from all of them, then the following should be true IF it were to comply with what was written in the New Testament:

1. Jesua should have the DNA of both Yosef and one of the Marys. A child does have DNA from both parents, right?

2. DNA from Judah would have the DNA from both Jesua and the OTHER Mary. As the inscription on the ossuary of Judah reads something like Judah Bar Jesua (Judah son of Jesua), there should be DNA from both parents.

IF they had DNA from all of these ossuaries, and the above scenario were true, then DNA testing would prove they were related in the above manner.

Follow me so far BlackFlag? Or do you need to learn how to understand English?


In another related story, the ossuary of "James brother of Jesus" has been declared authentic by a noted German expert in the field, and of the 10 ossuaries originally in the tomb, one is missing from the group (the James ossuary). Oh, and the patina on the James ossuary matches identically the patina on all the other ossuaries in that same tomb.

The odds against finding a tomb with ossuaries with the names Jesus, Joseph, two Marys, and an ossuary with the name "James Brother OF Jesus" on them with them NOT being the Tomb of Jesus is hundreds of billions to one against.

This says on a statistical level that it very possibly is the tomb they claim it is.

Now, one thing is also certain....even if the DNA returned matches in the above scenario, there would still be no proof that these were THE family of Jesus (God knows there are thousands and thousands of tombs scattered around Jerusaleum, ALL with 10 ossuaries, ALL of them with the names on them of Joseph, Mary, Jesus Son OF Joseph, Mary, Judah Son of Jesus and James Brother of Jesus, right BlackFlag?).

Perhaps BlackFlag can enlighten us using his extensive knowledge and expertise in this field.
:rolleyes:

Seems to me the 3 skulls mentioned on the website might be the only human remains found.

But then, for more details, I will just have to read the book when I buy it tomorrow.

[bastardog]

This is my opinion........shoot all you want....it is still my opinion:

The DNA can proof all of the individuals in the tomb are related.
That "Jesua" is in fact son of Mary and of Joseph
That "Jesua" is the father of Judah.

But it does not proof on anyway that this "Jesua" is in fact the Jesus of Nazaret the the Bible is talking. As the first post mention at some point: "those were the most common names found among Jews in the first centuries BCE and CE"

So in the end the DNA only proved that they are related between them but not that they are the ones referenced on the Bible.

Again......this is my opinion.....but everyone can take shots at me....I don't care

[Jesus Christ]

1. Jesua should have the DNA of both Yosef and one of the Marys. A child does have DNA from both parents, right?

Yes, but Joseph was not My father. So why would I have his DNA?

[ELVIS]

A skeptics fairytale, nothing more...


:elvis:

[Blackflag]

Originally posted by bastardog

That "Jesua" is in fact son of Mary and of Joseph
That "Jesua" is the father of Judah.

But it does not proof on anyway that this "Jesua" is in fact the Jesus of Nazaret the the Bible is talking.

Exactly - that's all I am saying. DNA proves nothing when you don't have a reference of who you're trying to match it against.

That's not your opinion, "bastard dog," that's the logical fact.

Moreover, the tomb doesn't say "Jesua" on it, because it's not in English. As the above article points out, archaeologists aren't sure what it says.

There will always be people who believe, and always people who don't. Nobody will know the truth until it's all over.

Until then, save your $20 from buying this asinine book and buy yourself a tinfoil hat.

:mad2:

p.s. James Cameron is a whore.

:heyfu:

[Hardrock69]

Originally posted by Blackflag
Moreover, the tomb doesn't say "Jesua" on it, because it's not in English. As the above article points out, archaeologists aren't sure what it says.

No they are certain it says "Yeshua Bar Yosef".

Yeshua was the Aramaic name given to the guy everyone shrieks about when they fall over in church foaming at the mouth.

Jesus is just the English variant of the original name.


Here...this direct from the official website:

"Of the ten ossuaries pulled from the Talpiot Tomb, one went missing, three were “plain,” and six bore inscriptions.

The first inscription, written in Aramaic (an ancient dialect of Hebrew), states: "Yeshua bar Yosef", “Jesus son of Joseph”. "

But then, this is all an elaborate hoax pulled by James Cameron.

Sure....Out of all the Jesuses running around Jerusaleaum in the first century BCE, there were only a few whose father's name was Joseph.

And out of all the billions of those Jesuses....there were only a few million or so that had a brother named James.

And then, out of all those, I guess there are only several hundred thousand who would have 2 different women named Mary in the family......

And of course we can't connect any of these names to anyone in the Bible now can we.

That would be blasphemy, and anyone who believed such a thing will burn in hell forever.


You are right. It is too impossible to believe. Even more impossible to believe any of those characters actually existed.

You win.

Jesus, Joseph, Mary and Mary Magdalene never existed, so these ossuaries could not possibley have been theirs.

It is all a hoax....back in the first century BCE someone decided to spend weeks carving these out of solid rock and then putting these names on them just to fool people 2,000 years on down the road.

Admins, go ahead and delete this thread. It is fake.

I made it all up.

None of this is real.

[PlexiBrown]

Christianity was forced apon me.

Exactly my point. At very young ages many kids are forced into a religion and this is the beginning of the brain washing. The catholic church even says, "give us your child until age five and we will have him for life".

[Blackflag]

Originally posted by Hardrock69

Here...this direct from the official website:


Well, if it's on a website, it must be true!

"Stephen Pfann, a biblical scholar at the University of the Holy Land in Jerusalem who was interviewed in the documentary, said the film's hypothesis holds little weight.
...
Pfann is even unsure that the name "Jesus" on the caskets was read correctly. He thinks it's more likely the name "Hanun.""


On the other hand, James Cameron did Terminator, and that movie just fucking ruled...so I think I'd sooner believe him.

:mad2:

[Hardrock69]

Why don't you learn to read?

The whole thing is a lie.

I told James Cameron to lie to everyone, and I went over to Jerusaleum and planted those ossuries in that cave back in the 70s and then covered it up.


The whole website was created by me and that Naked Archaelogist guy is a fraud.

[Hardrock69]

Anyone with half a brain would not believe one bit that the Bible is real, and certainly they would not believe there could possibly be a cave with real ossuaries in it that belonged to fictional characters.

[Blackflag]

Yeah, same here. I made up the name "Stephen Pfann." I mean...what kind of a name is "Pfann??"

[PlexiBrown]

Anyone with half a brain would not believe one bit that the Bible is real

There is a theory that the events and characters in the bible were a psychological drama and that the people in the bible didn't physically even exist. It's all "mind stuff". This is not to say that it didn't have meaning, just not the meaning that the masses are brainwashed into believing by people who don't know what they are talking about.

[bastardog]

Did you know how many Josephs, Maries and Jesus are in latin american countries?..........
Maybe we could find a hundred family tombs that the father is Joseph, the mother is Mary and the son Jesus (and even that jesus could had married another Mary). We can do some DNA sample on them and.....you guess it.....they are related. So maybe Jesus could be Mexican or Colombian.....Hey! maybe could be Puertorrican.

How many Jews where living at the jesus time?.....just 1000? or could it be posible that there were like in the millions?
Why can't be posible that this tomb names were just pure casualty?.........

[Jesus Christ]

Originally posted by bastardog
Did you know how many Josephs, Maries and Jesus are in latin american countries?..........
Maybe we could find a hundred family tombs that the father is Joseph, the mother is Mary and the son Jesus (and even that jesus could had married another Mary). We can do some DNA sample on them and.....you guess it.....they are related. So maybe Jesus could be Mexican or Colombian.....Hey! maybe could be Puertorrican.

How many Jews where living at the jesus time?.....just 1000? or could it be posible that there were like in the millions?
Why can't be posible that this tomb names were just pure casualty?.........

The Spanish speaking countries got their names from the tradition of the Catholic church. And it's usually Jose and Maria and opposed to Joseph and Mary And they pronounce My name as "Hay-zoos".

Not that there is anything wrong with that, of course.

But of course, the name "Jesus" never appeared on my drivers license either. In Hebrew, My name is actually Yeshua :)

[bastardog]

You got me on that one
come on! I will have to talk to your father YHWH about this name thing

[Hardrock69]

Originally posted by Jesus Christ
But of course, the name "Jesus" never appeared on my drivers license either. In Hebrew, My name is actually Yeshua :)

Well what in the Hell is your name doing on that bone box then?

It is simple...I put it there.

[Golden AWe]

Originally posted by Hardrock69
Anyone with half a brain would not believe one bit that the Bible is real, and certainly they would not believe there could possibly be a cave with real ossuaries in it that belonged to fictional characters.

Exactly...

Very interesting subject.

[Matt White]

I'm always fascinated when people go to such great lengths & spend so much money trying to disprove something they don't believe in......

Would they waste so much time & money on the tooth fairy?:confused:

Or Bigfoot???

The Loch Ness Monster?!?!?

I'm surprised that it's taken this long for someone to advance a story like this.......

What it really displays is the wanning of Religion in general.....

[hideyoursheep]

With or without DNA matches, IF this is Jesus, wouldn't there be some detectable damage to the ribs, feet and WRISTbones?.....

[Blackflag]

Originally posted by Matt White
I'm always fascinated when people go to such great lengths & spend so much money trying to disprove something they don't believe in......

Exactly. A Catholic priest doesn't really care that much if you believe in Christ or not. He would like if you did, but if you tell him you're Jewish, he doesn't start trying to convince you otherwise.

Anti-religious people, on the other hand, are really fervent about their belief. Try to show you proof, and write books, and make movies... whatever.

It's kind of weird and creepy. :uck:

[hideyoursheep]

So other than this being nothing more than the second coming of Al Capone's vault,at the end of the day it's still about faith.

Believers will still believe, and doubters will still doubt.

Neither side should be offended by the other.

[Blackflag]

True.

But then the non-believers will still be beating their fist on a table and saying how "brainless" the believers are.

Take a fucking pill, non-believers. :uck:

[hideyoursheep]

Originally posted by Blackflag
True.

But then the non-believers will still be beating their fist on a table and saying how "brainless" the believers are.

Take a fucking pill, non-believers. :uck:


That's a two-way street.

What amazes me is how puritan and anal retentive this country has become over the countries that our forefathers left behind.

[Blackflag]

Originally posted by hideyoursheep
That's a two-way street.

But it's really not. Every time I turn around, there's somebody trying desperately to convince people there is no God. I turned on Penn Jillette the other day, and spent the whole hour explaining why religious people are stupid. Fine, whatever. (and I dig Penn if he can get off his pet topic.)

When is the last time you heard the opposite. I mean, I don't care that much if you believe in God or not. Dig up bones, post on "blogs," whatever. No skin off my nose.

Bottom line - the anti-religious crowd doth protest too much. If you know what I mean.

:eatit:

[Hardrock69]

Not nearly as much as the Christian Zealot Crowd....

I find it hilarious they run around shrieking "JEEZUS LIVES!!!!!!", but show them one piece of possible evidence he actually existed, and they become irate and claim it is impossible.

I thought Christians would be the first to believe Jesus actually lived, but current situations demonstrate that exactly the opposite is true.

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by hideyoursheep
That's a two-way street.

What amazes me is how puritan and anal retentive this country has become over the countries that our forefathers left behind.

I sometimes wonder if that's related to the fact that a lot of your forefathers were the religious nuts of the old world.:)

Church attendence in the UK is down to about 6%. I regularly drink in bars which are old converted churches.

It's the 21st century for fuck sake.

I agree with the Christians that this latest find is meaningless.

Where I disagree is that some proof of Jesus's non supernatural nature is required, The fact that there is no evidence that he did exist is enough. You can't categorically prove a negative just like you can't prove categorically that there are no invisible pixies at the bottom of your garden...

[ELVIS]

Originally posted by Hardrock69
Not nearly as much as the Christian Zealot Crowd....

I find it hilarious they run around shrieking "JEEZUS LIVES!!!!!!", but show them one piece of possible evidence he actually existed, and they become irate and claim it is impossible.

I thought Christians would be the first to believe Jesus actually lived, but current situations demonstrate that exactly the opposite is true.

What the hell are you talking about...

Jesus lived, you moron...

There are many other factual accounts of Jesus outside of the Bible...

[FORD]

Originally posted by ELVIS
What the hell are you talking about...

Jesus lived, you moron...

There are many other factual accounts of Jesus outside of the Bible...

His presence in this very thread, for one.

[hideyoursheep]

Originally posted by ELVIS
Jesus lived, you moron...


Preach, brotha.


:lol:

[hideyoursheep]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
I sometimes wonder if that's related to the fact that a lot of your forefathers were the religious nuts of the old world.:)

It has alot to do with it, I think.

Especially in the southeast where the Holy-Roller Evangelicals began the fire and brimstone fear shows in the early 1800s.

"love Thy Neighbor",and "Do Unto Others" evidently didn't apply to an already religious native population.

[FORD]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
I sometimes wonder if that's related to the fact that a lot of your forefathers were the religious nuts of the old world.:)



Funny thing about it, Sesh, is that a lot of the immigrants who settled in the South (where most religious fundamentalism is) were Scottish & Irish.

Guess that makes some of them YOUR relatives? ;)

[hideyoursheep]

Originally posted by Blackflag
But it's really not. Every time I turn around, there's somebody trying desperately to convince people there is no God.
When is the last time you heard the opposite. I mean, I don't care that much if you believe in God or not. Dig up bones, post on "blogs," whatever. No skin off my nose.

Bottom line - the anti-religious crowd doth protest too much. If you know what I mean.

Penn Gillette never knocked on my door, handed me a pamphlet and asked me if I "knew if I were going to heaven when I die",

YOU could have changed the channel...

[hideyoursheep]

Originally posted by FORD
were Scottish & Irish.

Guess that makes some of them YOUR relatives? ;)

My wife and her family for sure!

The red hair, the temper, the last name.....

And she has big bagpipes!

[hideyoursheep]

Originally posted by Blackflag
Exactly. A Catholic priest doesn't really care that much if you believe in Christ or not. He would like if you did, but if you tell him you're Jewish, he wants to perform a visual inspection.

It's kind of weird and creepy. :uck:




Yeah, it is.:eek:

[LoungeMachine]

The irony is that "Christians" who hear this will scream "PROVE IT"

They will REQUIRE irrefutable [sp?] proof before buying this, all the while laughing at us for not believing the immacualte conception, the resurrection, Noah and The Ark, parting of the Red Sea, et al...

And I obviously run with a different crowd than those who hang out in Yakima.

It's the BELIEVERS who cluck and look down upon those who are doomed to hell...

Us Agnostics are pretty "meh" about the whole thing...

Believe whaterthefuck gets you through the night, just stop STARTING WARS because you feel YOUR God is the ONLY God. :rolleyes:

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Blackflag
Exactly. A Catholic priest doesn't really care that much if you believe in Christ or not.


No, he just wants to know if you want to sleep over, Timmy.

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by FORD
Funny thing about it, Sesh, is that a lot of the immigrants who settled in the South (where most religious fundamentalism is) were Scottish & Irish.

Guess that makes some of them YOUR relatives? ;)

Yup and we sent most of the rest of the insane ones to Nothern Ireland...

3 of the 5 pricks that formed the KKK were of Scottish descent.

Why do you think Holland is such a laid back liberal society(until the recent muslim influx at least.)

All their crazies went to South Africa...

And of course the Van Halens moved to Cali...:)

[hideyoursheep]

You guys gotta knock that shit off - you're upsetting nature's balance.:cool:

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by ELVIS
What the hell are you talking about...

Jesus lived, you moron...

There are many other factual accounts of Jesus outside of the Bible...

Examples please?

[Nickdfresh]

Well Sesh, the Roundheads weren't exactly secular humanists...

[Seshmeister]

That was earlier was it not?

Anyhoo it's just a theory...:)

I'm not alone in finding the huge amounts of religious superstition in the most technologically advanced country in the world extremely odd.

[Seshmeister]

BTW what the fuck does Rustoffa's quote in your sig mean.

Did I miss the early days of this site when it was pre digital?

Did it used to be a fucking chain letter or something?:)

[Nickdfresh]

It is an interesting paradox...

[svrwthr]

After all this, I'm still trying to figure out what DNA samples are going to prove?!

Do they have a direct descendant of Jesus? More than likely, NOT!

Maybe a glimpse of speculation if you believe in the Mary Magdalene theory of her being Jesus's wife and if they had known direct descendants of her living today. I guess if Jesus was the bastard child of God and Jesus fucked Mary Magdalene and she bore his children before they crucified her, then the offspring and their offspring and their offspring and their offspring would have the DNA of every human being on Earth since God had sex out of wedlock (thou shall not doink thy neighbors wife) and she bore God's son Jesus passing onto Jesus, God's DNA. Which should be the DNA of every living thing on earth.

I believe there existed Jesus and such but yet I don't. The Bible is full of fact and fiction and there are alot of indescrepencies in the Bible and one is that of God insemenating Mary, wife of Joseph, Mother of Jesus, possible mother in law of Mary Magdalene, when there is a commandment condoning such acts.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by svrwthr


there are alot of indescrepencies in the Bible

alot of wha???

Is this one of those flammable/inflammable things?


The Bible is a 2,000 year old copy of READER'S DIGEST.

About as accurate as a Dick Cheney soundbite. :rolleyes:

[hideyoursheep]

I'm going to the boob thread.....

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by svrwthr
After all this, I'm still trying to figure out what DNA samples are going to prove?!

.


Jesus killed Nicole and Ron.

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
The irony is that "Christians" who hear this will scream "PROVE IT"

They will REQUIRE irrefutable [sp?] proof before buying this, all the while laughing at us for not believing the immacualte conception, the resurrection, Noah and The Ark, parting of the Red Sea, et al...


I don't think irrefutable proof would make a fuck of difference. There are dozens examples of irrefutable proof that the bible is BS and they just plain ignore it.

Here's another one. Jonah lived inside a fucking whale for how long? Most whales can only swallow something the size of an apple and the Sperm whale which might just be able to swallow someone would melt them in minutes with it's gastric acids. The word of god....

There are reasons that Christianity emerged out of a dozen similar religions of the time as the winner none of which has anything to do with facts.

The resurection is a case in point. Fucking genius. People go and worship at the empty tomb in Jerusalem with the warped logic that because there is nothing there, i.e. no evidence at all, that proves that Jesus flew up to heaven.

For 1500 years or so they didn't even translate the fucking book into language that people understood because they knew it was a crock and eventually people would start to ask some questions...:)

It's the 21st century for fuck sake, time to move on. Hopefully then the Islamists will follow later.


Cheers!

:gulp:

[svrwthr]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
alot of wha???

Is this one of those flammable/inflammable things?


The Bible is a 2,000 year old copy of READER'S DIGEST.

About as accurate as a Dick Cheney soundbite. :rolleyes:


It isnt even that. The Reader's Digest atleast has truths. I think it more like the National Enquirer.

[Seshmeister]

It's worse than even that.

It's like if some people chose half of the parts of National Enquirer they liked, then translated it 5 times through various languages over a period of a thousand years in such a way as to help them control the population and make money.

Actually even then...

[Blackflag]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
alot of wha???

Is this one of those flammable/inflammable things?


The Bible is a 2,000 year old copy of READER'S DIGEST.

About as accurate as a Dick Cheney soundbite. :rolleyes:

2000 years from now, they're going to find your body...and say, "this is that guy that wrote "She's only 17.""

Then they'll take a dump on you and relocate you in the "Milli Vanilli" crypt.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Blackflag
2000 years from now, they're going to find your body...and say, "this is that guy that wrote "She's only 17.""

Then they'll take a dump on you and relocate you in the "Milli Vanilli" crypt.


Is this some of that "intellectual stimulation" you've been looking for? :rolleyes:

Remember, you're in a forum I mod now, so if you want to turn this into a flame war, you can't win.

By the way, what is this obsession you have with people and "dumps"?

Seems to be a focus of many of your posts.


I know you were just trying to be clever, and show off for the other posters in this thread, but they're all Front Line Regulars.

You'll have to do much better than Kip Winger references and shit jokes.

Fucking hypocrite. :rolleyes:


Go ahead, try to fight with me in here. I haven't had a good post edit in a while. :D


Stick to the topic of the thread, or go find another forum.

[Matt White]

Don't forget...the IRISH invented Western Monasticism:p

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Matt White
Don't forget...the IRISH invented Western Monasticism:p

And falling down drunk at weddings.

or was that the Scots, too?

:gulp:

[FORD]

I thought Jesus invented the "falling down drunk at weddings" thing.

Not that He drank that much Himself, but by providing an unlimited supply of wine at parties, He made it easy for everyone else to do so.

[Blackflag]

My ovaries hurt. :(

[Matt White]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
And falling down drunk at weddings.

or was that the Scots, too?

:gulp:

50/50


Celts + Booze = TROUBLE

[Blackflag]

I live in Yakima, this is all I have.

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by Matt White
Don't forget...the IRISH invented Western Monasticism:p

You sure it didn't start in Egypt or even pre Christian?

http://mb-soft.com/believe/txn/monastic.htm

The thing I find interesting/funny about monks is that in the Middle Ages, doctrine was that in order to avoid going to hell if you were responsible for killing someone there were set amounts of prayer time you had to put in.

In England for example it got to the point that in order to avoid hell kings and nobles paid monks to do the prayers for them because there just weren't enough hours in the day for them to do it. This became insane as kings might start a war in France whereby 40 000 people were killed so had to pay staggering amounts of cash to the church in order to have literally thousands of monks praying for their souls. Over time this meant that the church was much richer than the state until it reached a tipping point whereby the king would sack the monastries on some fatuous premise.

[LoungeMachine]

The monastic life was quiet, and full of beer however.....

But what is it with Christianity and the GUILT over sex??

How could they expect to make more monks?


:gulp:

[hideyoursheep]

Originally posted by FORD
I thought Jesus invented the "falling down drunk at weddings" thing.

Not that He drank that much Himself, but by providing an unlimited supply of wine at parties, He made it easy for everyone else to do so. :rofl:


The baptists frown upon drinking, and when I brought up the water/wine topic,....:rofl: They tried to tell me...:rofl: "well, it wasn't REALLY wine, it was gra...:rofl: it was grape juice...:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

But I say," -"wait! I thought you guys take the bible literally?"

As long as it doesn't conflict with their doctrine, I suppose...:cool:

[Blackflag]

Please pay attention to me....

I'm out of crack money, and the arcade is closed.

[Matt White]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
You sure it didn't start in Egypt or even pre Christian?

Western Monasticism in Egypt.........hmmmmm

Good ol St. Columba

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04136a.htm

[hideyoursheep]

Originally posted by Blackflag
Please pay attention to me....

I'm out of crack money, and the arcade is closed.


I believe someone is being baptized right now.......:p

[LoungeMachine]

I warned him.....

You want to try that tired old shit in MY house, that's what you get.

It's no longer about the thread topics with him.

Fuck him/her.

:gulp:

[ELVIS]

Originally posted by hideyoursheep
:rofl:


The baptists frown upon drinking, and when I brought up the water/wine topic,....:rofl: They tried to tell me...:rofl: "well, it wasn't REALLY wine, it was gra...:rofl: it was grape juice...:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

But I say," -"wait! I thought you guys take the bible literally?"

As long as it doesn't conflict with their doctrine, I suppose...:cool:


It was wine...:rolleyes:

[FORD]

Originally posted by ELVIS
It was wine...:rolleyes:

The Baptist church I grew up in tried to claim the same thing. They only passed out Welch's grape juice at communion time, not the fermented kind.

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
The monastic life was quiet, and full of beer however.....

But what is it with Christianity and the GUILT over sex??

How could they expect to make more monks?


:gulp:

Ahhh you're missing the point. Forbidden fruit.

I don't know if it's still true but in the 1990s there was a survey here that showed that 25% of strippers had gone to an all catholic girls school. Given that maybe less than 1% of girls went to somewhere like that it starts to make sense.

Wrong is sexy. Combine that with no contraception and you get your future customers paying for the priests and the golden chalices etc etc

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by ELVIS
It was wine...:rolleyes:

How do you know that exactly?

Because it was in the bible or at least the bits of the bible that made the final cut. In the same way as Jonah lived in a whale?

How do you know it wasn't sperm?

[FORD]

Originally posted by Seshmeister


How do you know it wasn't sperm?

Because it wasn't a gay wedding?

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by ELVIS

There are many other factual accounts of Jesus outside of the Bible...


Still waiting....

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by FORD
Because it wasn't a gay wedding?

Even if Jesus existed.

Even if the stories are true.

As an unmarried 30 year old Jew at the time he would have been ostracised. It was almost unheard of to be unmarried at that age at that time and completely at odds with the Jewish culture.

Everyone would have assumed he was a rampant homo, giving foot massages to his exclusively male pals kind of reinforces that.

[Seshmeister]

Effectively if the story is true then Mary Magdalen was a fag hag and Palm Sunday a Gay Pride march.

You'll notice that Jesus never once, not even a little bit at any time even in passing mentioned homosexuality.

Yet most Christian leaders get very upset and uptight about it.

They think this guy was the main man, god on Earth who talked about loving your neighbor but never had an issue about men sticking their cocks into each other.

Why is that?

[Hardrock69]

Originally posted by Seshmeister

It's the 21st century for fuck sake, time to move on. Hopefully then the Islamists will follow later.


Cheers!

:gulp:



Well, if the timetable holds up we have 600 years to go before Islam has been around for 2,000 years...

[Hardrock69]

Originally posted by Blackflag
2000 years from now, they're going to find your body...and say, "this is that guy that wrote "She's only 17.""

Then they'll take a dump on you and relocate you in the "Milli Vanilli" crypt.

LMFAO!!!!
:D :D :D

[Hardrock69]

Originally posted by ELVIS
It was wine...:rolleyes:

Elvis knows!

He was there!
:D

[FORD]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
Effectively if the story is true then Mary Magdalen was a fag hag and Palm Sunday a Gay Pride march.

You'll notice that Jesus never once, not even a little bit at any time even in passing mentioned homosexuality.

Yet most Christian leaders get very upset and uptight about it.

They think this guy was the main man, god on Earth who talked about loving your neighbor but never had an issue about men sticking their cocks into each other.

Why is that?

God never said anything about homosexuality either. Just a couple of know it alls who claimed to speak for Him did.

Besides, if Jesus were gay He wouldn't have trashed the Temple, He would have redecorated it.

And the hymns people sing in church would sound more like show tunes.

[Hardrock69]

I said something to someone here only a couple of months ago.....something like

"If you can come up with physical proof Jesus existed you will be the most sought after interview in CNN history!"

Well....look what happened.

They have not even proven it 100%...and the news media is going apeshit.


If it was just some cave with ONE ossuary in it with someone's name on it, it would not be worth a fuck as far as news.

It is the group of names in that one cave.....

CNN was going nuts talking to James Cameron tonight drilling him about the fact that apparently the ossuary with Yeshua's name on it had bones in it....

There is gonna be some big black headlines in the paper tomorrow.....


:cool:

[Hardrock69]

Originally posted by FORD
Besides, if Jesus were gay He wouldn't have trashed the Temple, He would have redecorated it.

And the hymns people sing in church would sound more like show tunes.

http://amandawardon.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/.pond/meetmeinstlouis.jpg.w300h203.jpg

Clang Clang Clang went the trolley....ding ding ding straight to hell.....

:D

[vanhalendlrband]

There's so much wrong out there. I don't know if this is true or not, all i have to say is a few things. I'm not really religious anymore, but i use to be. Here's a few things i'd like to add.

1. about the DNA thing. Like Jesus said, that god was the father. So if they do look at the DNA they should find that Jesus is only related to the mother not the father, and his brother would be a half.

2. About god conflicting his own "Sex before marriage act" i believe (if i remember correctly) that god was prophesying this right from the first few chapters of the bible long before the ten commandments. Also i doubt he would've actually had sex with her, he probably just pulled a Q and snapped his fingers. At least thats what i hope god would do, otherwise to know god would disobey his own laws would be pretty freaky to me.

Also, i can understand how a lot of you hate religions. SO much bullshit some of those religions put out there. Like the doctrine's of the middle ages, none of those were from the bible and the last scripture of the bible (or near the last) states that any additions made on behalf or to the bible is in direct violations of god's word.

So all of these would technically be against gods wishes:
Hell (not even in the bible, just hades which is the ground)
Trinity, if god was truly three beings like that, wouldn't he have talked more about it then just one vague scripture?
Christmas, almost everybody knows this tho, as well as encyclopedias.
Easter, the whole egg's and bunny's are a direct descendant of a pagan holiday for sex, nothing more. Why Jesus is associated with this day is beyond me, it sure isn't his exact memorial date.

And we could go on....

Then again, i question the whole thing to begin with. Also i do not know whether i believe the bible is truly gods word or not, but from what i know (like talkin about episodes of family guy) certain things were just not a part of the bible and some religions insist that it was or try to make it that way.

I also think it is really unfair of whoever is in power right now to confuse us with all these religions when life is already hard enough as it is, how the hell are we supposed to know? And espescially when he knows it gets forced on us by our parents and so on, and if you leave th faith, or even for another faith some families will disown you, which is completely lackin of all rationality to do that to a family member. Why does our short lives mean so little to him?

I would really love to have a hunger strike with the entire world, of all religions. If Humanity is on the brink of extinction due to a hunger strike, wouldn't god force himself to act and at least say hey, i'm god and this religion is the one and yea peace. Thats all he has to do, although i'd like him to do more than an appearance (like me wanting VH and DLR to do a studio album instead of just a tour) and help us out, clean this messy world up and tell us why things are good and bad, not just that they are y'know what i mean?

[Satan]

Originally posted by vanhalendlrband

Hell (not even in the bible, just hades which is the ground)


Ah, not so... and I would know since Hell is both my residence and my place of business.

But don't take my Unholy word for it. Ask JC Himself.........

From the 16th chapter of Luke's gospel

22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

23 And in Hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.


So there you have JC himself, not only clearly establishing the existence of Hell, but also revealing the nature of my adopted homeland as a place of torment.

See ya when you get here! :cool:

[Hardrock69]

Hey Satan, you are doing great work down here in Tennessee!

The Jesus Tomb story did not make it onto the front page of any section of this morning's paper. In fact, it was briefly mentioned on page 4A, with a little paragraph and a small 2 X 3 inch photo of the ossuary with the name Yeshua on it.

Guess people in Tennessee are not as Christian as I thought. Apparently one of your servants is the publisher of the local newspaper!
:D

[bastardog]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
Here's another one. Jonah lived inside a fucking whale for how long? Most whales can only swallow something the size of an apple and the Sperm whale which might just be able to swallow someone would melt them in minutes with it's gastric acids. The word of god....


You are talking here about Pinocchio story??? in the Bible?

[Seshmeister]

Book of Jonah, chapter 1

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=jonah+1:1-17



13 Instead, the men did their best to row back to land. But they could not, for the sea grew even wilder than before. 14 Then they cried to the LORD, "O LORD, please do not let us die for taking this man's life. Do not hold us accountable for killing an innocent man, for you, O LORD, have done as you pleased." 15 Then they took Jonah and threw him overboard, and the raging sea grew calm. 16 At this the men greatly feared the LORD, and they offered a sacrifice to the LORD and made vows to him.

17 But the LORD provided a great fish to swallow Jonah, and Jonah was inside the fish three days and three nights.



I'm skipping over the fact that the LORD didn't know that a whale is a mammal...:)

[nosuchluck]

Taxonomy is the devil's work.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
Book of Jonah, chapter 1

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=jonah+1:1-17



I'm skipping over the fact that the LORD didn't know that a whale is a mammal...:)


Or that the MOON isn't a second source of light. :rolleyes:

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by nosuchluck
Taxonomy is the devil's work.

As is tax.:)

[Hardrock69]

So far I have yet to hear anything that proves it could not be the tomb of Jesus and family.

So-called experts are only able to say "Oh those are common names from the 1st-century in Jerusaleum".

Ahh...so they are common names.

And how does that conclusively prove it is not the tomb of Yeshua?

According to the discovery.com website dealing with this matter, tests that were run on the patina of the ossuary of "James, brother of Jesus" show it to be an exact match with the patina on the other ossuaries. Not only that, but examination of the tomb itself revealed a space where the 10th ossuary likely once was, as it was the exact same size.

Not only that, the researchers discovered a second, as-yet unexplored tomb about 65 1/2 feet from the Talpiot Tomb. During the documentary, they introduced a robotic camera into this second tomb, which captured the first-ever recorded footage of an undisturbed burial cave from Jesus' time. The team speculates that this other tomb could contain the remains of additional family members, or even disciples, though further examination and analysis are needed.

More updates as they become available.

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Or that the MOON isn't a second source of light. :rolleyes:

Or that the Earth goes around the Sun not vice versa...

The bible’s primitive astronomy provides a longer day to complete the killing of all the Amorite men, women, and children.

Joshua realized that he wasn’t going to have enough time to completely slaughter all of the Amorites (even with God helping by throwing boulders from the sky to crush the people that were fleeing) so he commanded the Sun to stand still in the sky over Gibeon and the Moon to stand still over the valley of Aijalon.

The author of Joshua like everyone else in his day was unaware of the earth’s rotation and thought the Sun went around the earth and that the Sun and Moon were only a few miles up in the sky, hence the command to make them stand still over certain topographic features of the earth.

These same verses were used by the Church against Galileo when he suggested that the earth turned instead:

(Josh 10:12-13 NRSV) On the day when the LORD gave the Amorites over to the Israelites, Joshua spoke to the LORD; and he said in the sight of Israel, "Sun, stand still *at Gibeon*, and Moon, *in the valley of Aijalon*."

And the sun stood still, and the moon stopped, until the nation took vengeance on their enemies. Is this not written in the Book of Jashar? The sun stopped in midheaven, and did not hurry to set for about a whole day.

[Steve Savicki]

Gentlemen,

I do not believe the sales of this would match that of Titanic.

[Blackflag]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
You want to try that tired old shit in MY house, that's what you get.

His what...? His "house?" He didn't really say that, did he? :rolleyes:

[Blackflag]

Originally posted by Hardrock69
So far I have yet to hear anything that proves it could not be the tomb of Jesus and family.

You can't prove the negative. You could find a pile of bones anywhere, and there would be no way to prove it's NOT Him.

No way to prove it is, no way to prove it isn't. (Not that logic is the strong suit of yours or this forum.) :confused:

[Satan]

Originally posted by Hardrock69
Hey Satan, you are doing great work down here in Tennessee!

The Jesus Tomb story did not make it onto the front page of any section of this morning's paper. In fact, it was briefly mentioned on page 4A, with a little paragraph and a small 2 X 3 inch photo of the ossuary with the name Yeshua on it.

Guess people in Tennessee are not as Christian as I thought. Apparently one of your servants is the publisher of the local newspaper!
:D

Hey, I've been running Nashville for years! I expanded to the rest of the state just in time to make sure Al Gore lost his home state in 2000.

[Steve Savicki]

Originally posted by svrwthr
It isnt even that. The Reader's Digest atleast has truths. I think it more like the National Enquirer.
That sir, is true and funny.:D

[Golden AWe]

Originally posted by Blackflag
You can't prove the negative. You could find a pile of bones anywhere, and there would be no way to prove it's NOT Him.

No way to prove it is, no way to prove it isn't. (Not that logic is the strong suit of yours or this forum.) :confused:

Others discuss, you live in denial.

Weak...

[Hardrock69]

Originally posted by Blackflag
You can't prove the negative. You could find a pile of bones anywhere, and there would be no way to prove it's NOT Him.

No way to prove it is, no way to prove it isn't. (Not that logic is the strong suit of yours or this forum.) :confused:

The tomb is not "anywhere", fool.

Not that logic is the strong suit of yours.

[Hardrock69]

Actually there are already 4 different tombs of Jesus. 2 In Jerusaleum, one in Japan, and one in India.

The experts are all gonna deny the validity of this one, because it would ruin the income of tourist dollars at all the other ones.

Never mind that the Church of The Holy Sepulchre was founded at a location that was dreamed up (literally) by the mother of the Emperor Constantine.

Now THERE is a scientific method that cannot be denied. :rolleyes:

But then, since when did Christianity rely on science?

Or the real world for that matter?

Fairy tales don't require any basis in fact.

[Blackflag]

Originally posted by Hardrock69
The tomb is not "anywhere", fool.

Hmm...how do I break this down to the level of a 3 year old?

You could have a tomb underneath the Church of the Holy Sepulcher with a sign with His name on it. It is not possible to prove is it NOT Him.

You could have a grave on Fiji with the name "Tony" on it, and you can't prove that's NOT Him.

You can't prove the negative. That's logic 101. If you think I'm wrong, explain to us how you prove it.

Meanwhile, I'll lament the decline of american education. :alien:

[Satan]

Tony??

Tony Christ???

**Laughing my pointy tailed ass off**

[Hardrock69]

Black Flag is grasping at irrelevant straws again.

I am convinced.

Read the book.

[Hardrock69]

Only a little over 200 pages.

Yes it is entirely possible that this is NOT the tomb of Jesus and family.

But the odds still drastically favor it being the tomb of JEEEEZUSSSS-AHHHH!!!
(hallelujah!)

They discovered that each tomb in Jerusaleum has it's own unique patina signature by getting many samples from other ossuaries found in the area.

All of the ossuaries' in the Jesus Tomb had a patina with the identical chemical fingerprint as samples taken from the walls, floor and ceiling. One that was different from every other tomb in the area, and was unique ONLY to that particular tomb.

They got a large number of samples from ossuaries found in other tombs, and basically discovered all tombs have their own unique patina signature.

Not only that, it has been determined the James ossuary IS real, and came from the same tomb as the other 9.

In fact, as the inscription on the James ossuary reads "James, son of Joseph, brother of Jesus", if you include the James ossuary in the statistical analysis, the odds are something like 2 and a half million to 1 in favor of it being the tomb of Jesus.

Meaning, the combination of names, the names themselves, and many other mitigating circumstances mean only 1 out of 2.5 million tombs would have identical names, in one tomb, with identical inscriptions as this one has.

The use of ossuaries lasted for only a century, ending rather abruptly during the Jewish Revolt around 70 A.D.

During the entire 100 year span ossuaries were used, the entire population of male occupants of Jerusaleum is estimated to have been at most 80,000.

It is like in a modern day murder case where they say that the odds against it being someone other than the suspect are 1 in 8 quadrillion....when the entire population of earth is only 7 billion or so.


Also, a MAJOR part of this whole thing are the politics of the archaeological establishment in Jerusaleum.

When the tomb was first discovered in 1980, and the archaeologists called to the scene read the names on the ossuaries, they did NOT want to make waves. The Jewish archaeological community there wants to IGNORE anything that might be of any importance to Christians.
Certainly if it would cause explosive ripples in the religious fabric of the world.

It is like scientists can lose their career if they start talking about UFOs.

If an archaeologist in Jerusaleum makes some discovery with MAJOR implications like this (certainly dealing with Christianity), it is better for them to shut the fuck up, or they could lose their career.

One archaeologist and collector was under house arrest for a year, because he was accused of playing a role in faking the inscription on the James ossuary. Had his ass kicked a buncha times by the police too. Even though the inscription is real.

They have no sense of humour over there when dealing with such stuff, apparently.

This is why a couple of archaeologists who were in the book, are coming out saying this is silly, there is no way it could be what it seems, etc. But then they do not want to wind up being a laughingstock. So of course they are denying having anything to do with this, as they do not want their reputation's sullied.

Christ. :rolleyes:

There are a lot of other details I am not bothering to repeat here.

I have been seeing ads on TV tonight that they will broadcast a "Director's cut" of the documentary next Monday night with scenes not in the Sunday premier.


I think Christians oughta celebrate.

Nutshell version: Is it possible it is NOT the tomb? Yes.

Is it probable?
Hell no!

Have a nice week everyone.

I shutteth mine pie-hole now. Much to BlagFlag's happiness I am sure.

:cool:

[bueno bob]

Prior to reading this thread, I hadn't heard a peep about it from anyone. After all the countless "Here's the truth!" forgeries over the years I doubt anything will stir the nest much (the last thing I remember being his brother's tombstone supposedly being found, that was proven a forgery in a month...2001? 2002?).

DNA testing won't prove shit. All it'll prove is that somebody's in the tomb, no telling who. Unless of course you have God's DNA on hand, at which point you might be able to discern something. Short of that, all you've got are some stones that say, essentially: "Here lies John, Jane, Jimmy, Jeff, and Judy, respectively".

I don't think it's going to break anybody's faith, honestly.

[Hardrock69]

No. James ossuary was never definitively proven to be a fake. In fact, it was shown to be authentic from the word go, but for some reason the Israeli Antiquities Authority would not give it a vote of confidence for politicial reasons. In the past 12 months it has been proven to be authentic, and could only have come from the same tomb as all the others.

It IS interesting how mainstream media does not seem to give a damn about it.

Expect some more ruckus though after the broadcast of the documentary on Sunday, but it the current non-ruckus is any indicator, nobody will give a fuck about it then either.
:cool:

[Hardrock69]

Yup. Here is the current state of Christianity in the world.

No relation to reality.

Oh....wait a minute....

HERE is the reality about Christianity.....an image of "Virgin" Mary in a pizza pan....the sad thing is there are ignorant fuckers out there who believe this shit:

http://www.aolvideoblog.com/2007/02/27/virgin-mary-on-a-pizza-pan/

[nosuchluck]

That reminds me...

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b218/frood/1172473450185.jpg

Look closely :D

[LoungeMachine]

The things religious zealots of all stripes choose to believe never ceases to amaze me.

The LIES they try and spread are scary.

To think our Commander in Thief claims God told him to invade Iraq, and there'd be no casulties...... :rolleyes:

When raised around chronic lies, they become adults who can't help but lie.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by nosuchluck
That reminds me...

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b218/frood/1172473450185.jpg

Look closely :D


LMMFAO

I dont even want to know how they came to find this :(



"there I was, about to mount fido, and Jesus came before me"

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by Satan
Tony??

Tony Christ???

**Laughing my pointy tailed ass off**

He usually uses the surname Blair. I thought you two were pals?

[vistadelrey]

"I know the resurrection is a fact, and Watergate proved it to me. How? Because 12 men testified they had seen Jesus raised from the dead, then they proclaimed that truth for 40 years, never once denying it. Every one was beaten, tortured, stoned and put in prison. They would not have endured that if it weren’t true. Watergate embroiled 12 of the most powerful men in the world—and they couldn’t keep a lie for three weeks. You’re telling me 12 apostles could keep a lie for 40 years? Absolutely impossible."

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by nosuchluck
That reminds me...

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b218/frood/1172473450185.jpg

Look closely :D

And what is DOG spelt backwards???

IT'S A SIGN, IT'S A SIGN!

[Hardrock69]

Originally posted by vistadelrey
"I know the resurrection is a fact, and Watergate proved it to me. How? Because 12 men testified they had seen Jesus raised from the dead, then they proclaimed that truth for 40 years, never once denying it. Every one was beaten, tortured, stoned and put in prison. They would not have endured that if it weren’t true. Watergate embroiled 12 of the most powerful men in the world—and they couldn’t keep a lie for three weeks. You’re telling me 12 apostles could keep a lie for 40 years? Absolutely impossible."


That is the lamest piece-of-shit excuse I have ever seen to explain JEEZUSSS-AH!!

So Richard Nixon was the Anti-Christ....that is what you are whining about?
:rolleyes:

[FORD]

Originally posted by Hardrock69


So Richard Nixon was the Anti-Christ....that is what you are whining about?
:rolleyes:

Seems like a reasonable candidate to me. Except he was only in power 6 years, not 7. And that would make the Second Coming about 30 years late.

[Hardrock69]

Ya know, the second coming has just occurred.

JESUS HAS COME BACK!!!

Though his bones are kinda distintegrated by now....

Don't think he will be able to turn water into wine anytime soon lol.

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by vistadelrey
"I know the resurrection is a fact, and Watergate proved it to me. How? Because 12 men testified they had seen Jesus raised from the dead, then they proclaimed that truth for 40 years, never once denying it. Every one was beaten, tortured, stoned and put in prison. They would not have endured that if it weren’t true. Watergate embroiled 12 of the most powerful men in the world—and they couldn’t keep a lie for three weeks. You’re telling me 12 apostles could keep a lie for 40 years? Absolutely impossible."

That's the most crazed reason I've ever heard.

1) Whats your source for this 40 years of 12 men being beaten and tortured?
2) 12? Judas too?
3) They all lived into their 70s in those days under those circumstances? Smells a bit of the usual superstitions of long lives in the bible like Noah living for 600 years or Adam 900.
4) People can be brainwashed. Look at 9-11 does that make fundamentalist Islam true?

[vistadelrey]

It's a good question actually. If Jesus isn't risen than how is it that we've got this here story sitting in our laps? Did it just spread like wildfire from a high brow group hell bent on spending their lives succesfully creating a lie that yields no rewards for their efforts?

At the very least don't expose yourself by trying to suggest that this is not a good question again. You and others are either cynically shut down on the subject or you're open to critical thinking.

[Seshmeister]

It's very simple. There were a dozen religions and messiahs around at that time. Christianity was the best one. It won by adopting and incorporating all of the pagan superstitions.

For example look at the Nativity story. The whole born in a stable thing was stolen from the Mithras people. Making it the 25th of December was to keep the Pagan gift giving festival going. Even staunch Christians accept that the story doens't work at that time of year.

There was no census that made Joseph and Mary go to Bethlehem.

We know this for two reasons

1) Romans were quite anal about that kind of stuff and we have records of all the census's they did at that time. There was one in around 7AD but none as described in the bible.

2) Why in the name of fuck would the Romans make evryone go to the town where their great great great great great ancestors were born for s census.

All that crap was added later on to fit with the long held tradition that the Jewish mesiah would be born in Bethlehem.

[Hardrock69]

Note there is no record of anything having to do with Jesus Christ in Jerusaleum even while he was running around stirring shit up against them. The Romans were meticulous record keepers. If multitudes were flocking to see him, following him wherever he went, etc. there would surely be a mention.

If nothing else, the Trial of Jesus would be written down somewhere, as it was a kind of official action, eh? Certainly when the defendant is gonna get his ass kicked heavily and then nailed up to a large wooden crucifix...

But no....they had no real reason to write anything down about him, I guess.

I saw someone on some other website ask "How could his own family go around preaching he was resurrected if he was buried in the family tomb?"

They did not preach that. That was the invention of the Apostle Paul. In fact, after Paul converted himself, and traveled back to Jerusaleum, he got his ass kicked by the people there because he was spreading such stuff, and THEY knew the truth of the matter, being his family and all.....

One thing is for sure, he has had more of an effect upon the people of this world than just about anyone....for 2,000 years no less.

Makes him one of the greatest celebrities of the entire recorded history of Mankind!
:cool:

[Hardrock69]

Originally posted by vistadelrey
"I know the resurrection is a fact, and Watergate proved it to me. How? Because 12 men testified they had seen Jesus raised from the dead, then they proclaimed that truth for 40 years, never once denying it. Every one was beaten, tortured, stoned and put in prison."

Uh....they were stoned and THEN put in prison?

The punishment of "stoning" a person usually meant throwing large rocks at them until they were like...DEAD...

So you are saying they would take their dead corpses with the caved in skulls to the local prison?

Why?

Do you think that being sent to the slammer after they had their head crushed by rocks was somehow going to be a worse punishment?

You need to stop huffing that gasoline, son....it is giving you brain damage....

[vistadelrey]

well good for you guys and your impenetrable understanding of the world. seems as if you've got it all figured...

good luck.

[Hardrock69]

Answer the question, son....

[Blackflag]

Originally posted by Hardrock69
Note there is no record of anything having to do with Jesus Christ in Jerusaleum even while he was running around stirring shit up against them. The Romans were meticulous record keepers.

If you'd research the issue a little past "James Cameron," you'd find out there are Roman records. They're housed at the Vatican. I mean, you're being a little selective in your research, don't you think? :rolleyes:

But I can't believe you're even still talking about this...am I the only one that thinks it's strange that you're more interested in Christ than the Christians here. :rolleyes:

"son" Ha. Dumbass.

[Hardrock69]

No, there are no "Roman records" at the Vatican.

The only written records that exist of Jesus are those that were composed decades after he died.

No written records exist that were written during his lifetime.

Prove me wrong, smartass.

Now...
http://bittertongues.com/uploads/shut_the_fuck_up.jpg

[Blackflag]

Originally posted by Hardrock69
The only written records that exist of Jesus are those that were composed decades after he died.

That's a really cool graphic. :rolleyes:

Try researching the issue before you take a position.

"We possess the statements of Tacitus that the Founder of the Christian religion, a deadly superstition in the eyes of the Romans, had been put to death by the procurator Pontius Pilate under the reign of Tiberius; that His religion, though suppressed for a time, broke forth again not only throughout Judea where it had originated, but even in Rome, the conflux of all the streams of wickness and shamelessness; furthermore, ...."

There's more out there, but I don't have time to be your fucking tutor. Isn't there a library in your town? Ignorant asswipe... :rolleyes:

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Blackflag

There's more out there, but I don't have time to be your fucking tutor. Isn't there a library in your town? Ignorant asswipe... :rolleyes:


Ah,

Stimulating intellectual discourse.


You were right. We're all so beneath you.

:gulp:

[FORD]

Well, you just can't compete with the Yakima Public Library for repositories of knowledge.

[LoungeMachine]

Yakima.

Yuma without the view.

Does anyone actually live there by choice?




Although his IP traces to DC.


Yakima might be a cover. ;)

:gulp:

[Blackflag]

Do you know what a proxy is, or are you too old for the technology?

On the other hand, I'm sure you have a first rate education...having been in "Winger" and all. :rolleyes:

[hideyoursheep]

Originally posted by Blackflag
Do you know what a proxy is, or are you too old for the technology?

On the other hand, I'm sure you have a first rate education...having been in "Winger" and all. :rolleyes:


...AND she's OFF!......... :rolleyes:

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by hideyoursheep
...AND she's OFF!......... :rolleyes:


LMAO

I love watching the BF brand of "intellectual stimulation" though :D


Brings a real Algonquin Roundtable feel to the forum. :rolleyes:


:gulp:

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Blackflag
Do you know what a proxy is, or are you too old for the technology?

On the other hand, I'm sure you have a first rate education...having been in "Winger" and all. :rolleyes:


Yes, and yes,

And go Wildcats.

Oh wait, that's Ellensburgh.

Does Yakima even have a college?

[Blackflag]

Why don't you tell us all where you went to school, Kip? :rolleyes:

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Blackflag
Why don't you tell us all where you went to school, Kip? :rolleyes:


LMMFAO

Oh, hit a nerve there.


Good jab at misdirection there, BF.

You really turned that one around. :D


It's 10:30 on a Friday night in DC

No date? :confused:

[vistadelrey]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
That's the most crazed reason I've ever heard.
People can be brainwashed. Look at 9-11 does that make fundamentalist Islam true?

Within the same line of reason as mentioned before...

The Islamic martyrs on September 11 proved that some will die for a false cause they believe in. Yet to be a willing martyr for a known lie is insanity. As Paul Little wrote, “Men will die for what they believe to be true, though it may actually be false. They do not, however, die for what they know is a lie.” Jesus’ disciples behaved in a manner consistent with a genuine belief that their leader was alive.

[Blackflag]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine

Good jab at misdirection there, BF.

You didn't ask a question, so how could it be misdirection?

Don't tell me... community college? You must have some degree, right?

[vistadelrey]

for fear of toe headed derailing I'll simply state that I'm not interested in debating the Koran on top of everything else we are addressing. the point here is not to discount or disprove Islamic beliefs. I hope you cynics can pick up on the point here. again... good luck.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Yes, and yes,

And go Wildcats.

Oh wait, that's Ellensburgh.

Does Yakima even have a college?



Originally posted by Blackflag
You didn't ask a question, so how could it be misdirection?

Don't tell me... community college? You must have some degree, right?


I didnt ask a question?

"Does Yakima even have a college?" isn't a question?

Follwed by your "tell us where you went to college, Kip"



:rolleyes:

Your reading comprehension skills need work, BF

:gulp:

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by vistadelrey
for fear of toe headed derailing I'll simply state that I'm not interested in debating the Koran on top of everything else we are addressing. the point here is not to discount or disprove Islamic beliefs. I hope you cynics can pick up on the point here. again... good luck.

Are you still on topic?

We're watching BF flail here, bub.

Keep up. :cool:

[Blackflag]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
I didnt ask a question?

"Does Yakima even have a college?" isn't a question?



Sorry, I thought that was rhetorical. Ok, answer: I have no idea, because I don't live in Yakima.

Wow, that was funny. You got me there.:confused:

[Blackflag]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine

We're watching BF flail here, bub.

Who started it this time, Kip?

Who starts it every time?

It's stale, man...why not just let it go already? :confused:

(And I'm still waiting for you to tell us about your degree, or lack thereof.):rolleyes:

[hideyoursheep]

Originally posted by Blackflag
You didn't ask a question, so how could it be misdirection?

Don't tell me... community college? You must have some degree, right?

Now it's the famous "I'll show you mine if you show me yours" cock-off.

Go now and save the world with whatever "degree" you may have,Blackfag.

OOps! Not PC.... I mean, GrayAiken.

[Blackflag]

Originally posted by hideyoursheep
Go now and save the world with whatever "degree" you may have,Blackfag.


I don't...I dropped out of Yakima CC after two semesters. But I suspect quasi-erudite Lounge is in the same boat.:p

[hideyoursheep]

Originally posted by Blackflag
I don't...I dropped out of Yakima CC after two semesters. But I suspect quasi-erudite Lounge is in the same boat.:p

When was that ever a requirement for registering @ Rotharmy? Who cares? Let it go, man. So you disagree- big fuckin deal...

It's always the Winger jokes......why? How's that "on topic"?

[Blackflag]

Originally posted by hideyoursheep
It's always the Winger jokes......why?

Am I the only one that thinks it's hilarious that there's somebody from "Winger" at a VH site? What next, Justin Timberlake signs up? :p

[hideyoursheep]

I never knew...

I still don't know....

It doesn't matter to me if he's from Montgomery Gentry.....

Well, maybe the last part.....I'd have to tease him about that fenced-in bear he killed..

But not every day.

Let's continue........

[Blackflag]

Originally posted by hideyoursheep

But not every day.


Again, peacemaker...go back and tell me who started insulting whom here? :confused:

Dude's fucking obsessed with me, then he cries when he gets his feelings hurt.:confused:

[vistadelrey]

Originally posted by vistadelrey
for fear of toe headed derailing I'll simply state that I'm not interested in debating the Koran on top of everything else we are addressing. the point here is not to discount or disprove Islamic beliefs. I hope you cynics can pick up on the point here. again... good luck.

...or whatever the fuck else you bungholes are yammering about. so now that all the flailing and derailing has dissolved can we get back to the topic of God?

No one has adequately explained why the disciples would have been willing to die for a known lie. But even if they all conspired to lie about Jesus’ resurrection, how could they have kept the conspiracy going for decades without at least one of them selling out for money or position? Moreland wrote, “Those who lie for personal gain do not stick together very long, especially when hardship decreases the benefits.”

[hideyoursheep]

Now you're fucking up.

Who's doing the obsessing now?

[Blackflag]

Originally posted by hideyoursheep

Who's doing the obsessing now?

There's only one thing I'm obsessed with...and it's a carbonated beverage...

[hideyoursheep]

Originally posted by vistadelrey
...or whatever the fuck else you bungholes are yammering about. so now that all the flailing and derailing has dissolved can we get back to the topic of God?

Yeah, looks like you need it.:rolleyes:

[Blackflag]

Originally posted by hideyoursheep
Yeah, looks like you need it.:rolleyes:

Did he just call me a bunghole? :mad:

[hideyoursheep]

Originally posted by Blackflag
Did he just call me a bunghole? :mad:

Yeah.

Fire away.

[vistadelrey]

Originally posted by hideyoursheep
Yeah, looks like you need it.:rolleyes:

need what? that doesn't even make sense. can't you yardapes go monkey fuck with some other thread?

[Blackflag]

Originally posted by vistadelrey
you yardapes go monkey fuck

What the hell..? :mad:

[FORD]

What this thread needs is some Black Flag.

The REAL Black Flag, that is.....

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/wHk7zahvDFI"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/wHk7zahvDFI" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

[hideyoursheep]

Originally posted by vistadelrey
need what? that doesn't even make sense. can't you yardapes go monkey fuck with some other thread?


What?

And let your retarded ass have all the fun?


Fuck you Daisy.

[Blackflag]

Originally posted by FORD
What this thread needs is some Black Flag.

The REAL Black Flag, that is.....


That's what I'm talking about, my fine yardape!!

(Was that dude insulting my racial heritage?) :(

[FORD]

Originally posted by Blackflag
That's what I'm talking about, my fine yardape!!

(Was that dude insulting my racial heritage?) :(

How the fuck would I know, when I don't know what your racial heritage is? :confused:

Never heard "yardape" before. Is it supposed to be racist like "porchmonkey"??

[Shuey]

Baaa Baaaa! All this hoopla is over the selling of a tv show & a book.

For one thing, Jesus was never called son of Joseph! He was called son of David. If you could test his DNA you would only find 1 match, Mary.

People need to do “there homework” before they start preaching there beliefs or disbeliefs on others, we all believe, whether it’s in a God or not. Make sure you have you’re facts straight before you open you’re mouth on what you believe. Goats on the left please, All sheep on the right.

“#1Fact on Christianity” for the preacher’s out there preaching there Gospel.

How is one saved? By Faith or works or both?

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God Not of works, lest any man should boast.

The bible teaches you are saved by trusting in Jesus work on the cross Alone! Its not what he did plus what you can do. If it was, the Law could save you. The law couldn’t save you, there for he died as the payment for all.

[jhale667]

Originally posted by Shuey
Baaa Baaaa!
For one thing, Jesus was never called son of Joseph! He was called son of David. If you could test his DNA you would only find 1 match, Mary.


Oh, Jesus. :rolleyes: So let me get this straight: You're suggesting there would only be ONE person's DNA in the "Jesus" corpse? Wouldn't that suggest he was a (male) CLONE of his mother? Or would we suddenly have a sample of Mary and GOD'S DNA? Think about that one...let's say he hypothetically WAS god-like and everything EXCEPT the resurrection stuff was somewhat true...wouldn't the DNA be UNIQUE among humanity??!?! Hmmmm? :D



People need to do “there homework”

"There"?? Oh, fer Christ!!

[Shuey]

Ha-ha ..Ya there!..seems like you got it all right!

Their ya go. Baaaa

[jhale667]

Originally posted by Shuey

Their ya go. Baaaa


http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h217/jhale667/sheep.jpg

[Shuey]

Originally posted by jhale667
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h217/jhale667/sheep.jpg


http://biology.clc.uc.edu/graphics/taxonomy/animals/mammalia/domestic%20goat/DBF%20970501%20David%20Feeding%20Kids.jpg

[jhale667]

Originally posted by Shuey
Farm sex.

OK, now that's just wrong. ;) But what about the "Jesus" DNA, huh? If it did have "unique" properties, how long do you think it'd be before some nutbag tries to CLONE him?!?! I'm just sayin'....

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h217/jhale667/zombie-jesus.jpg

[Hardrock69]

Originally posted by Blackflag

Try researching the issue before you take a position.

"We possess the statements of Tacitus that the Founder of the Christian religion, blah blah blah woof woof, etc., etc.; furthermore, ...."

There's more out there, but I don't have time to be your fucking tutor. Isn't there a library in your town? Ignorant asswipe... :rolleyes:


Oooh I am soooo impressed.

:rolleyes:

NOT....

Let me guess....you are getting ready to graduate from the third-grade?

Please explain to everyone here how Tacitus could write anything at all during Jesus's lifetime, when Jesus died in approximately 33 CE, and Tacitus was not even born until 31 years later?

He gives a brief mention of a "Christus" in his Annals (Book XV, Sec. 44), which got written around 109 C.E....76 years after Jesus died (according to the Bible).

Try researching the issue before you take a position.

Who is the ignorant asswipe now, asswipe?

[Hardrock69]

Originally posted by Shuey
Baaa Baaaa! All this hoopla is over the selling of a tv show & a book.

For one thing, Jesus was never called son of Joseph! He was called son of David. If you could test his DNA you would only find 1 match, Mary.

People need to do “there homework” before they start preaching there beliefs or disbeliefs on others, we all believe, whether it’s in a God or not. Make sure you have you’re facts straight before you open you’re mouth on what you believe. Goats on the left please, All sheep on the right.


Jesus was descended from the house of David. Through his father JOSEPH.

If the father of Jesus was actually GOD, he could not have been a "Son Of The House Of David".

Being called a "Son Of The House Of David" simply means you are descended from the Davidic line.

Since he was a Son Of The House Of David, that is proof that Joseph was his dad.

But wait.....

SO you say he would only have one source of DNA....Mary's?

So in other words, God fucked Mary and had Jesus, right?

Isn't that "Committing Adultery?"

The penalty for Adultery at that time was DEATH!

So please explain where in the Bible it says they stoned God to death for fornicating with Joseph's wife.
:confused:



People need to do “there homework” before they start preaching there beliefs or disbeliefs on others, we all believe, whether it’s in a God or not. Make sure you have you’re facts straight before you open you’re mouth on what you believe. Goats on the left please, All sheep on the right.

[Hardrock69]

LAFF MY FUCKING ASS OFF @ ZOMBIE JESUS!!!

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h217/jhale667/zombie-jesus.jpg

[Shuey]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by jhale667
[B]OK, now that's just wrong. ;) But what about the "Jesus" DNA, huh? If it did have "unique" properties, how long do you think it'd be before some nutbag tries to CLONE him?!?! I'm just sayin'....

Well...if there is a God, I don’t think he would let some Nutbag clone his son. Do you? Well now that I think about it!!! Heck, that might be the second coming! ha ha ;)~

[Shuey]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Hardrock69
[B]Jesus was descended from the house of David. Through his father JOSEPH.

If the father of Jesus was actually GOD, he could not have been a "Son Of The House Of David".

Being called a "Son Of The House Of David" simply means you are descended from the Davidic line.

Since he was a Son Of The House Of David, that is proof that Joseph was his dad.






'DO YOU'RE HOMEWORK!' Ill help you! I.E Mary..1 more hint.. Book of Ruth!

Come back when youve done what is required of you.
http://shinma.shrub.com/art/creatures/goat.jpg

[Shuey]

Well Hardrock69 didn’t do his homework; Ill do it for him, he just blabbed some babble he read along the way, here is some food for thought for those that want to know! & if anyone wants to attack the word virgin in the Hebrew I’m up for the task! Just please know what you’re talking about before you do.



Why a Virgin Birth?
by Chuck Missler



Every Christmas season our thoughts turn to the birth of Christ and to his mother, Mary. To some extent, we all take the nativity for granted. But why was Jesus born of a virgin? One answer, of course, is to fulfill the prophecy of Isaiah 7:14: "Behold the virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel."
But that's more descriptive than causal: why was it necessary in the first place? There are, of course, many profound theological issues inherent in the virgin birth. One way to view this issue is to address one of the problems it solves.

The Problem

God announced very early that His plan for redemption involved the Messiah being brought forth from the tribe of Judah1, and specifically from the line of David2. The succession of subsequent kings proved to be, with only a few exceptions, a dismal chain. As the succeeding kings of Judah went from bad to worse, we eventually encounter Jeconiah (also known as Jehoiachin), upon whom God pronounces a " blood curse" : "Thus saith the Lord, Write ye this man childless, a man that shall not prosper in his days: for no man of his seed shall prosper, sitting upon the throne of David, and ruling any more in Judah."(Jeremiah 22:30)

This curse created a rather grim and perplexing paradox: the Messiah had to come from the royal line, yet now there was a "blood curse" on that very line of descent! (I always visualize a celebration in the councils of Satan on that day. But then I imagine God turning to His angels, saying, "Watch this one!")

The Solution

The answer emerges in the differing genealogies of Jesus Christ recorded in the gospels. Matthew, as a Levi, focuses his gospel on the Messiahship of Jesus and presents Him as the Lion of the Tribe of Judah. Thus, Matthew traces the legal line from Abraham (as any Jew would) through David, then through Solomon (the . royal. line) to Joseph, the legal father of Jesus3.
On the other hand, Luke, as a physician, focuses on the humanity of Jesus and presents Him as the Son of Man. Luke traces the blood line from Adam (the first Man) through to David -- and his genealogy from Abraham through David is identical to Matthew's. But then after David, Luke departs from the path taken by Matthew and traces the family tree through another son of David (the second surviving son of Bathsheba), Nathan, down through Heli, the father of Mary, the mother of Jesus4.

Zelophehad

One should also note the exception to the law which permitted inheritance through the daughter if no sons were available and she married within her tribe5.
The daughters of Zelophehad had petitioned Moses for a special exception, which was granted when they entered the land under Joshua.

I believe it was C.I. Scofield who first noted that the claims of Christ rely upon this peculiar exception granted to the family of Zelo-phehad in the Torah. Heli, Mary's father, apparently had no sons, and Mary married within the tribe of Judah. Jesus was born of the virgin Mary, of the house and lineage of David and carrying legal title to the line, but without the blood curse of Jeconiah. [I believe that every detail in the Torah -- and the entire Bible -- has a direct link to Jesus Christ. "The volume of the book is written of me." (Psalm 40:7) [For a more detailed discussion, watch for our new book, Cosmic Codes -- Hidden Messages from the Edge of Eternity, presently in publication.]

Earlier Glimpse

This was no afterthought or post facto remedy, of course. It was first announced in the Garden of Eden when God declared war on Satan: " I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel."(Genesis 3:15)

The "Seed of the Woman" thus becomes one of the prophetic titles of the Messiah. This biological contradiction is the first hint -- in the early chapters of Genesis -- of the virgin birth.

John also presents a genealogy, of sorts, of the Pre-Existent One in the first three verses of his gospel6. The Prophet Micah also highlights this: " But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting."(Micah 5:2)

[FORD]

Originally posted by Hardrock69


So in other words, God fucked Mary and had Jesus, right?

Isn't that "Committing Adultery?"

The penalty for Adultery at that time was DEATH!

So please explain where in the Bible it says they stoned God to death for fornicating with Joseph's wife.
:confused:



1) Joseph and Mary were not married at the time she got pregnant. They were "betrothed" which means about the same thing as "engaged", apparently.

2) With the possible exception of the Mormons, no church teaches that God actually fucked Mary. If He did, she wouldn't have been a virgin anymore, and that would have ruined the whole story. This is where the term "Immaculate Conception" comes in.

3) If you saw the movie "Dogma", you'll notice that this process occurs once again at the end of the movie when the "Voice of God" impregnates Jesus' great-great-great-great-great-great-etc. grand-niece Bethany.

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by Shuey
Well Hardrock69 didn’t do his homework; Ill do it for him, he just blabbed some babble he read along the way, here is some food for thought for those that want to know! & if anyone wants to attack the word virgin in the Hebrew I’m up for the task! Just please know what you’re talking about before you do.

Why a Virgin Birth?
by Chuck Missler

Every Christmas season our thoughts turn to the birth of Christ and to his mother, Mary. To some extent, we all take the nativity for granted. But why was Jesus born of a virgin? One answer, of course, is to fulfill the prophecy of Isaiah 7:14: "Behold the virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel."
But that's more descriptive than causal: why was it necessary in the first place? There are, of course, many profound theological issues inherent in the virgin birth. One way to view this issue is to address one of the problems it solves.

The Problem

God announced very early that His plan for redemption involved the Messiah being brought forth from the tribe of Judah1, and specifically from the line of David2. The succession of subsequent kings proved to be, with only a few exceptions, a dismal chain. As the succeeding kings of Judah went from bad to worse, we eventually encounter Jeconiah (also known as Jehoiachin), upon whom God pronounces a " blood curse" : "Thus saith the Lord, Write ye this man childless, a man that shall not prosper in his days: for no man of his seed shall prosper, sitting upon the throne of David, and ruling any more in Judah."(Jeremiah 22:30)

This curse created a rather grim and perplexing paradox: the Messiah had to come from the royal line, yet now there was a "blood curse" on that very line of descent! (I always visualize a celebration in the councils of Satan on that day. But then I imagine God turning to His angels, saying, "Watch this one!")

The Solution

The answer emerges in the differing genealogies of Jesus Christ recorded in the gospels. Matthew, as a Levi, focuses his gospel on the Messiahship of Jesus and presents Him as the Lion of the Tribe of Judah. Thus, Matthew traces the legal line from Abraham (as any Jew would) through David, then through Solomon (the . royal. line) to Joseph, the legal father of Jesus3.
On the other hand, Luke, as a physician, focuses on the humanity of Jesus and presents Him as the Son of Man. Luke traces the blood line from Adam (the first Man) through to David -- and his genealogy from Abraham through David is identical to Matthew's. But then after David, Luke departs from the path taken by Matthew and traces the family tree through another son of David (the second surviving son of Bathsheba), Nathan, down through Heli, the father of Mary, the mother of Jesus4.

Zelophehad

One should also note the exception to the law which permitted inheritance through the daughter if no sons were available and she married within her tribe5.
The daughters of Zelophehad had petitioned Moses for a special exception, which was granted when they entered the land under Joshua.

I believe it was C.I. Scofield who first noted that the claims of Christ rely upon this peculiar exception granted to the family of Zelo-phehad in the Torah. Heli, Mary's father, apparently had no sons, and Mary married within the tribe of Judah. Jesus was born of the virgin Mary, of the house and lineage of David and carrying legal title to the line, but without the blood curse of Jeconiah. [I believe that every detail in the Torah -- and the entire Bible -- has a direct link to Jesus Christ. "The volume of the book is written of me." (Psalm 40:7) [For a more detailed discussion, watch for our new book, Cosmic Codes -- Hidden Messages from the Edge of Eternity, presently in publication.]

Earlier Glimpse

This was no afterthought or post facto remedy, of course. It was first announced in the Garden of Eden when God declared war on Satan: " I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel."(Genesis 3:15)

The "Seed of the Woman" thus becomes one of the prophetic titles of the Messiah. This biological contradiction is the first hint -- in the early chapters of Genesis -- of the virgin birth.

John also presents a genealogy, of sorts, of the Pre-Existent One in the first three verses of his gospel6. The Prophet Micah also highlights this: " But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting."(Micah 5:2)

No cut and pasted here dude this is straight from my amazing brain...:)

A number of things come to mind.

1) Mathew and Lukes bloodlines do not match. So someone is talking shit.

2) If you take the Luke line then that takes you into the whole total fucking nonsense that the earth is only 6000 years old.

3) The nativity story DID NOT HAPPEN as outlined in the gospels. We know this because.

a) There was no census. From memory I think there was one in 7AD. We have records of all Roman census.
b) The Romans would try and get everyone to go to the home of their distant ancestors. That's juts fucking crazy and the romans were very practiical and money obseesed. You think a governor of Palestine would make people do this so hugely reduce the output from the province for weeks as everyone moved around for no reason? Absolutely no fucking way. Governerships were a chance to make cash for Roman aristocrats.
c) There was no slaughter of male babies by Herod. He wasn't even in charge at the time. It's just plain bullshit.
d) Sheep are not put out to pasture in the middle of Winter.


4) There are two reasons for the creation of the nativity story As a new religion Christainity had to fulfill the old Jewish prophesies including the birth of the messiah being in Bethlehem from a virgin. The whole census story is just a device to get Jesus there. Secondly in order to grow quickly Christainity chose to mimic a lot of the popular existing pagan religions hence the copying of the successful Mithras cult which since 300BC had Mithras born in poor circumstances(in his cas a cave) on the 25th of December, as a sun god known as the truth and the light. Ironically the Christians later persecuted and killed the Mithras people.


5) We know that Mary wasn't a virgin because she gave birth to a child. That's pretty basic biology, you should have paid more attention at school.

6) So no nativity. What else do we have? The crucifixion never happened as outlined in the story. The tradition of giving a pardon on a religious day did not exist. Also again there is no Roman record of the event. We know so much of of that period in Roman times through contemporary writings. Nothing about Jeuss though until much later.


A couple of months ago I chatted to my Mum who is a lifelong Christian outlining the above and she seemed to became an athiest on the spot. I'm not sure I should have done that at her age given that the supertsition perhaps gives some comfort. I dunno.


Oh and Blackflag I have two University degrees in Law and IT but they never taught me anything about Christian superstitions. And the Winger thing is a running joke you dummy.


Cheers!

:gulp:

[Seshmeister]

The Old Testament is full of fucking nonsense both scientifically(Noah etc.) and morally(God going around killing thousands of innocent people).

Then you lose the Nativity story as per my previous post.

Then you lose the crucifixion.

The Bible being the word of god is long gone unless he's some sort of lying murdering cunt who coincidently no longer involves himself in human affairs now that we can explain natural phenomena.

What are you left with exactly?

Thats why I'm an atheist and correct.

Cheers!

:gulp:

[Shuey]

Enjoy being an atheist Sesh! Blaa blaa blaa… I see you don’t have a clue nor any understanding of what it is you’re talking about. You’re amazing brain is too much for me. Go ahead & try to dis prove the blood line of Christ or even the virgin birth! In any way.. You can’t, BTW..people have tried & failed for hundreds of years.

You can be the first & I will be the first to buy you’re book.

[Seshmeister]

Of course I can't disprove the virgin birth or the bloodline of Christ in the same way you can't spell. I notice you can't argue with a single point I've made.

I also can't prove that there aren't invisible pixies in my garden or that there isn't an invisible flying teapot that circles Saturn.

Read my posts again, take a step back and use the brain that you were born with.

Ir would be nice if there was some big lovely invisible friend that looked after us all and if when we die we all went to heaven. That would be just fucking super.

It's all very disappointing, I'm sorry to be the bringer of bad news just like the kid at grade school that told you there was no Santa Clause.

Life sucks huh?

Cheers!

:gulp:

[FORD]

"Christians" like the new troll are enough to make ME consider atheism. :rolleyes:

[Seshmeister]

FORD serious question.

You seem to be someone that questions what you are told.

You don't think the Bible is the some work of a god.

You don't agree with homo bashing,

You've read my many historical factual reasons why at least most of the Jesus story is empirically untrue.

You must know that you are only a Christian by an accident of birth. If you had been born in say Pakistan you wouldm't be a Christian.

Given all that why wouldn't you be an athiest?

Cheers!

:gulp:

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
FORD serious question.

You seem to be someone that questions what you are told.

You don't think the Bible is the some work of a god.

You don't agree with homo bashing,

You've read my many historical factual reasons why at least most of the Jesus story is empirically untrue.

You must know that you are only a Christian by an accident of birth. If you had been born in say Pakistan you wouldm't be a Christian.

Given all that why wouldn't you be an athiest?

Cheers!


:gulp:

If you were to ask the Religious Right in this country, they would answer in all sincerity.......

If you were born in Pakistan, then you'd be born a doomed sinner.

You are being punished by GOD, just as homos, liberals, and mass murderers are. Your only destiny is eternal; damnation.







Unless of course, you renounce your parents faith, and agree with the Christian Faith.

Then you'd enjoy eternal salvation.


Whew, that was close, eh Abdul?

[Seshmeister]

Unlike the Christians that post here I am entirely open to ideas on sprirituality and theology. I'm sure that many people who are superstitious who post in other threads avoid this stuff.

All that ever seems to happen though is either silence or 'WAWHAWAH I'M NOT LISTENING IT'S TOO UPSETTING' posts.

Maybe I'm the fucking weirdo to question these things but to me I find it weird not to.

Most of my pals here are agnostic and don't even think about it.

Americans on average are much more superstitious.

Personally I find it odd that both types of people don't spend a little time wondering what it's all about. We're all here for a short time and as intelligent mammals I think it's worth spending a little time on life, the universe and everything rather than spending 100% of your time working out ways to get a better car or bigger house.

Maybe it's just too upsetting for them.

Cheers!

:gulp:

[Shuey]

Only a fool would argue with an atheist who had no point! Did you have a question? No, you made a statement that you assumed you knew what you were talking about; that just kills me when people think they know the truth because of something they heard or read somewhere without researching it. did you list anything worth reading? Did you find proof of an error in the bloodline? Ummm no! Will you? No you won’t! Being wise in you’re own eyes has blinded you to even seeking out the truth about the topic. Am I going to spend my time correcting you? No…because if I do, we will only move on to you’re next question, is Dave in the band or what?

I will leave you to your ways, but for you’re own peace of mind you should dig in a little deeper & find out who programmed your mind? The state? You’re own intellect?
Or the research you have done finding out the truth.

[Shuey]

Seshmeister! Here is a quick class for ya ! it only takes 24rhs ;0)

Learn The Bible In 24 Hours
I think you will like Chuck Missler, he is a teacher not a preacher!
Chuck, a Naval academy graduate and former Branch Chief of the Dept. of Guided Missiles, had a remarkable 30-year executive career. He served on the Board of Directors of 12 public companies and was CEO of 6 of them.

Learn the Bible in 24 Hours (http://www.khouse.org/6640_cat/learnthebiblein24hours/)

[FORD]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
FORD serious question.

You seem to be someone that questions what you are told.

You don't think the Bible is the some work of a god.

You don't agree with homo bashing,

You've read my many historical factual reasons why at least most of the Jesus story is empirically untrue.

You must know that you are only a Christian by an accident of birth. If you had been born in say Pakistan you wouldm't be a Christian.

Given all that why wouldn't you be an athiest?

Cheers!

:gulp:

Fair question. And I'm not honestly sure how to answer it.

Let's just say that I've seen things in this world that defy "scientific" explanations and can only be explained spiritually. I'm not going to elaborate, because it has to do with some personal stuff that doesn't need to be dragged out on to this board.

I consider myself a deeply spiritual person as opposed to religious, because I left the "organized" right wing Baptist church over 20 years ago, and have only been back for the occasional wedding, Christmas, or Easter service.

The last 15 years or so, I've spent more time in a sweat lodge than in a church. Though I'm a bit out of practice there at the moment as well.

I've always considered the teachings of Jesus Christ as a great example that we should all try to live up to, and probably would continue to think so even if I didn't think He was the Son of God.

So I guess it comes down to this..... I can't believe theres NOBODY out there, but wish He would reward the good and smack down the evil once in a while.

[FORD]

Originally posted by Shuey
Seshmeister! Here is a quick class for ya ! it only takes 24rhs ;0)

Learn The Bible In 24 Hours
I think you will like Chuck Missler, he is a teacher not a preacher!
Chuck, a Naval academy graduate and former Branch Chief of the Dept. of Guided Missiles, had a remarkable 30-year executive career. He served on the Board of Directors of 12 public companies and was CEO of 6 of them.

Learn the Bible in 24 Hours (http://www.khouse.org/6640_cat/learnthebiblein24hours/)

A militaristic corporatist from northern Idaho?? Wow, how Christ-like can you get ?? :rolleyes:

[Shuey]

Originally posted by FORD
A militaristic corporatist from northern Idaho?? Wow, how Christ-like can you get ?? :rolleyes:

Lol!!! Check him out! He is one of a kind! He’s real. Not some funky weird TBN Jesus Freak!

[bueno bob]

I like the idea behind Christianity; it's a great body of work and the message is clear, good and strong.

It's just practicing Christians I don't really see eye to eye with. They're the proof positive that ANYTHING can be taken entirely too far.

[bueno bob]

And by that - I don't mean ALL Christians, not my a long stretch. The ones that are in the general public eye, who seem to hold all of the power, are the biggest culprints when it comes to the inner corruption and self-righteousness.

Of course, the same goes for the Government...the school...or any general body...the ones in the spotlight who use their base to grandstand their own agendas, ideals or beliefs seem to be too easily corrupted with their own ideas and self importance.

The average Christian that I've met, who believes in his religion and tried to live his life to those beliefs, is a decent, fair, friendly, kind human being.

Zealots ruin everything - Christianity isn't the rule, it's just one of many examples.

[Shuey]

Originally posted by bueno bob
I like the idea behind Christianity; it's a great body of work and the message is clear, good and strong.

It's just practicing Christians I don't really see eye to eye with. They're the proof positive that ANYTHING can be taken entirely too far.

So true! That is my biggest problem with the church! So many freaks telling you how to live & what to do …People are people.

Consider this -- A Christian is one who trusts in Christ alone for all of salvation, who pleads His righteousness alone as his full entitlement to the whole inheritance of grace. A Christian is one who follows the Gospel of Christ and His teachings. Christ's Gospel nor any of His teachings promoted legalism. A person who is a legalist, no matter what else they claim, is a lost person. All they promote is dead works and fruit unto death. True Christianity is the exact opposite as it promotes salvation by God's free and sovereign grace in Christ Jesus.

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by Shuey
Only a fool would argue with an atheist who had no point! Did you have a question? No, you made a statement that you assumed you knew what you were talking about; that just kills me when people think they know the truth because of something they heard or read somewhere without researching it. did you list anything worth reading? Did you find proof of an error in the bloodline? Ummm no! Will you? No you won’t! Being wise in you’re own eyes has blinded you to even seeking out the truth about the topic. Am I going to spend my time correcting you? No…because if I do, we will only move on to you’re next question, is Dave in the band or what?

I will leave you to your ways, but for you’re own peace of mind you should dig in a little deeper & find out who programmed your mind? The state? You’re own intellect?
Or the research you have done finding out the truth.

Only a fool reaches 40 without taking the time to learn the difference between you're and your.

Some reading skills too since you missed that I stated two problems with your supernatural bloodline.

The two bloodlines in your storybook disagree with each other so they can't both be true. Secondly one goes back to Adam which is just fucking rubbish. Anything to do with Adam is just fucking bullshit.

And when you answer this could you also let us know how Santa manages to get to every house in the world in just one night.

The state programmed my mind to wonder how that could be done...

Cheers!

:gulp:

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by Shuey
Seshmeister! Here is a quick class for ya ! it only takes 24rhs ;0)

Learn The Bible In 24 Hours
I think you will like Chuck Missler, he is a teacher not a preacher!
Chuck, a Naval academy graduate and former Branch Chief of the Dept. of Guided Missiles, had a remarkable 30-year executive career. He served on the Board of Directors of 12 public companies and was CEO of 6 of them.

Learn the Bible in 24 Hours (http://www.khouse.org/6640_cat/learnthebiblein24hours/)

Why would I waste my time doing that?

If I had 24 hours to spend on fantasy stories I think I would choose Harry Potter. I've still to read any of those but I hear they are quite tightly plotted.

Cheers!

:gulp:

[Shuey]

oh....boy!


cheers!

[Hardrock69]

YE WILL BURN IN HAIL SAITH THA LORD-DUH JEEZUSSSS-AH.....

http://www.long-sunday.net/photos/uncategorized/pat_robertson_20050330.jpg
http://www.juicecaster.com/content/174/433/289_orig.jpg
http://www.decaturdaily.com/decaturdaily/religion/060701/falwell.jpg
http://goddoubleplusblessamerica.org/jest/crossafire-4.png

[Hardrock69]

What Shuey has posted has nothing to do with Biblical Archaeology, therefore I shall not debate his beliefs.

BUT JEEEE-ZUSSSS SAYS HE WILL BURN IN HELL FOREVER!!!
SAY-TIN WILL TORMENT HIM UNTIL THE END OF TAHM. MAH FRENZ!!! HE HATH BEEN SENTENCED BY GAWD TO BE BURNED AT THE STAKE FOR HIS SINS!!!!

THIS IS WHAT WE DO TO SINNERS LIKE SHUEY FOR BLASPHEMING AGAINST THA LOR-DUH JEEE-ZUSSS-AHHH!!!
http://i18.tinypic.com/4dnnx1y.jpg

[Hardrock69]

[For a more detailed discussion, watch for our new book, Cosmic Codes -- Hidden Messages from the Edge of Eternity, presently in publication.]

Oh, so you are an author?

Trying to push your book, eh?

Pretty ignorant aren't ya? Isn't such a book a bit outta yer league?
:rolleyes:

Go wipe the drool from yer mouth there son....

[Shuey]

Pass it - give some to sesh! so... who are you in the pic?

[Golden AWe]

Originally posted by bueno bob
I like the idea behind Christianity; it's a great body of work and the message is clear, good and strong.

True...though even that is originally kung-futsean...

[Hardrock69]

Originally posted by Shuey
Pass it - give some to sesh! so... who are you in the pic?

Tooooke...I am the guy who is being burned alive at the stake at the hands of the Christian Fundaligionists....just because I speak from a more realistic viewpoint....

:cool:


By the way, I realized what the ultimate shortcoming of Christianity, Islam and Judaism are while watching the debate of Religion Vs. Film-making Blasphemer last night after the Jesus thang.

The problem is this: The early Christians should not have had faith in something that can be proven by science or historical fact.

IF something can be proven to exist by way of science....then it is something existing in the physical universe.

The physical universe is imperfect. But if something exists in the physical universe, only an insane person would claim it does not.

"Nice car you got there..."

"There is no car there....?"

"You are sitting on it.."

"No..I am floating in the air..."


"Mmmmkay...."

The physical universe evolves, for instance, like humans are born, grow old and die. Once they die, they turn to dust, just as everything else on the planet does. Rocks, plants, animals....everything on the planet returns to cosmic dust whence it came.

If the Christians worshipped "God" instead of some guy named Jesus and his pack of acolytes, then there would not be any worries. Science would not be trying to establish whether or not God is real, because Science is the study of the physical universe.

Christians would not have to worry that their entire belief system might become unravelled due to some archaeological discovery.

The archaeologists would not have to worry about religious zealots interfering with their work.

And everything would work out ok....people could get back to arguing over which God is more powerful.....


"Crum laughs at your gods!"

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/adc/10102058A~Arnold-Schwarzenegger-Conan-the-Barbarian-Posters.jpg

Someone way back when decided to worship Jesus instead of God.

The Muslims decided to worship Mohammed instead of Allah.

Ok so I draw a cartoon of Mohammed. So fucking what? He was just a man....one who got his sandals on one at a time like anyone else...he had to eat, crap, breathe air, and survive, like anyone else.

Same thing for Jesus.

Draw a cartoon of Allah, and I could see Muslims getting irate.

But drawing a cartoon of a man?

Give me a fucking break.
:rolleyes:

Because a human being has been the subject of 2,000 years of worship, the laws of a human being must apply, as relating to the physical universe.

Now, on a relevant note, you don't see anyone crying because someone might find the bones of Buddha now, do you?
:rolleyes:

Buddha was thought to live several thousand years ago, but the philosophy does not exactly entail worship of the MAN Buddha....though it could easily follow that path like Islam and Christianity have.

Judaism does not exactly worship a human...yet

They believe their god-like human just has not shown up yet.

They still lose points for basing their religion on the appearance or return of some guy.

How do they know the Messiah is not going to be a woman?
:confused:

http://www.movieactors.com/freeseframes-1026/FifthElement148.jpeg



So if some guy had written an entire book about what God says, oh say about 2,000 years ago, but had left all the stories about people and all the historical bullshit out of it, then you could say you have a true religion.

I see the statement a lot "Oh it does not matter what they discover, because I still have faith!"

That is all well and good except for one thing.....Christianity is based on historical Humans.

The Human Beings are written about in other places aside from the Bible in many cases.

And so because someone back there was claiming some humans were more god-like than others, when archaeology these days and in the future show it more likely they were just regular folks, it creates problems for Christianity.

Perhaps Christians will just stick to their faith, but then it is the same as saying a house is still completely sound, even though the inside might be proven to be eaten up by termites.

It is fortunate for Christianity that there cannot be any 100% proof about some of these things. They can hide behind statements like "I still have faith", even when it is entirely possible the story could be an ancient fiction.

If people said they believed in God, or Yahweh or Allah, and there were no humans involved in the story, nobody would blink an eye.

Have all the faith in God you want, my friends......but get humans involved in the story, and it just fucks it all up for everybody.

The Human Race will fuck it up every time.

Though as far as religion goes there is certainly something to be said for Buddhism.

I don't see Buddhists strapping bombs to themselves, or enslaving other people because their skin color is darker, or condemning other people to hell for all of eternity just for actually have a mind of their own & different beliefs to boot.

And no you do not have some power-mad Buddhist trying to take control of the Earth, do ya?
;)

We now return to our feature presentation "Gay Christian Relationships: The Jerry Falwell/Jim Bakker Story - Or How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Know My Fellow Man...Biblically"

:D

[Shuey]

A good read Hard rock! Hey at least it seems you are digging for something.

"Gay Christian Relationships" Oh now thats something to talk about!
So when did Adam meet Steve??

http://www.songfight.org/covers/adam_and_steve_ems400.jpg

[Seshmeister]

Or where the fuck did Cain's wife come from exactly?

I see the gay issue as just another problem with Christian doctrine.

There were at least one guy maybe two in my grade school class that were obviously gay. Gay before even the sexual stuff had kicked in. 7 years old. Just completely obvious and maybe you can somehow argue that bisexuality is in some way a moral choice but at least one of those guys was born gay. So created gay by a god?

According to the bible Jesus never said anything about gay shit but he did say that he completely supported everything in the Old Testament. Maybe that was just added later. To me it's obvious that given the hundreds of inconsistencies and plain evil in the old testament then it's all about picking what you like.

Bottom line is the Bible is a fucking mess of inconsistencies, impossiibilities and patent immorailty. If you come to the conclusion tha the bible is entirely inconsistent and inaccurate then logically Christianity is bullshit. If on the other hand you take the huge logical faith jump that it is true then bottom line is that God is a cunt so either ignore him or become a cunt and hope that he will be nice to you once you are dead.

The vast majority of people seem to fail on both oounts.

Cheers!

:gulp:

[jhale667]

Wow, guys...a new zealot troll... just what the place needed.

Let's say a prayer/have a moment of reflection (as they used to say in parochial school) for him/her/it. ;)

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h217/jhale667/fucktardprayer.jpg

[Shuey]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
Or where the fuck did Cain's wife come from exactly?

:gulp:

I think you know that one!


Originally posted by Seshmeister

According to the bible Jesus never said anything about gay shit but he did say that he completely supported everything in the Old Testament.

:gulp:

and thats not saying anything?


Originally posted by Seshmeister

Bottom line is the Bible is a fucking mess of inconsistencies,
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Seshmeister
[B]
:gulp:
again you are wrong!

The bottom line to why people don’t want to believe is this! Men love darkness rather than light & the word love there is agape! They have given them self’s over to the darkness because they love it.

[Shuey]

Originally posted by jhale667
Wow, guys...a new zealot troll... just what the place needed.

Let's say a prayer/have a moment of reflection (as they used to say in parochial school) for him/her/it. ;)

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h217/jhale667/fucktardprayer.jpg


http://yahshvah.com/images/theend.jpg

[Hardrock69]

Originally posted by jhale667
Wow, guys...a new zealot troll... just what the place needed.

Let's say a prayer/have a moment of reflection (as they used to say in parochial school) for him/her/it. ;)


Well, I would not exactly consider shuey a zealot troll after posting this lol:

http://www.songfight.org/covers/adam_and_steve_ems400.jpg


A true zealot would not be caught dead posting something like that.

Opinionated? Sure....

But aren't we all?
:cool: