Is this for real?

[Ellyllions]

Somebody tell me this isn't for real!

http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2007Mar03/0,4670,KatrinaFloodLawsuit,00.html



Nagin: New Orleans Aggressive in Claims
Saturday, March 03, 2007

NEW ORLEANS — Only $1 billion of the $77 billion the city is seeking from the Army Corps of Engineers is for infrastructure damages it says it suffered because of levee breaches during Hurricane Katrina. The rest is for such things as the city's tarnished image and tourist industry losses.

The city "looked at everything and just kind of piled it on," Mayor Ray Nagin said.

"We got some advice from some attorneys to be aggressive with the number, and we'll see what happens," he said.

New Orleans has joined big business and thousands of homeowners in filing claims seeking compensation from the corps for damages sustained when the levees broke during the 2005 storm, flooding 80 percent of the city.

The claims allege poor design and negligence by the corps led to the failure of flood walls and levees.

The city attorney's office also considered such things as "decreases in the city's image, tourist industry activity and potential business industry, losses in the tax base and generated revenue, and a decrease in the city's overall population," in making the assessment, according to a statement from City Hall.

A spokeswoman for the mayor could not explain how the city quantified losses not tied to infrastructure. A 43-page form filed with the corps, reserving the city's right to sue for $77 billion, also provides little insight. It does not quantify "loss of tax revenue," for example, and supporting documents for city-owned properties, such as a police crime lab and libraries, omit any estimates of property values of flood-related damages, The Times-Picayune newspaper reported Saturday.

Copyright 2007 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

[hideyoursheep]

With only 2 indirect quotes, it's hard to tell if it's real.

[FORD]

Well, the Army Corps WAS budgeted money to fix the levees, and if they had done so, the Katrina disaster would have been at least limited to what the hurricane itself did, which would have been minimal in comparison to the levee related damage. At least in New Orleans.

However it's my understanding that much of that funding was diverted to the useless, illegal, immoral occupation of Iraq, which would make the Defense Department more to blame than the Corps of Engineers itself.

[Nickdfresh]

Oh, it's for real...

The Corp can't even go into certain parts of NO...

[Ellyllions]

So sue the Corps for the 1 billion. But, 76 billion in damages:


Only $1 billion of the $77 billion the city is seeking from the Army Corps of Engineers is for infrastructure damages it says it suffered because of levee breaches during Hurricane Katrina. The rest is for such things as the city's tarnished image and tourist industry losses.

Um....the crime rate is already back up to 30 % higher than any other American city, Nagin is quoted as saying that he wants a "chocolate city", then made an astounding quote about the "hole" still in New York, and lastly did NOT prepare his city properly for the hurricane to come. And he's staking this lawsuit on a tarnished image?

Only to add that a city shouldn't be built below fucking sea level in the first place...

Probably not my buisiness since I don't live there, but this is ridiculous (sp). Or, my state can start suing our dept. of Transportation every time NC 12 floods....that way our tax money just gets shuffled some more.

Sometimes I hate all people. Especially stupid ones.

[ALMOSTsaved]

I saw this on CNN.com. Take it from someone who lives in South Mississippi (the area that was REALLY devastated by Hurricane Katrina), this just proves what we knew all along: "In the wake of Hurricane Katrina, South Mississippi wanted assistance. New Orleans wanted their wildest dreams to come true."

Anyone and everyone in this area is sick and tired of hearing Nagin "poor mouth." Fuck him.

[Ellyllions]

One question has been churning over and over in my head since it happened. The only reason I've never mentioned it before is out of respect for so many people who lost so much, but I think in the wake of this I can say it now and feel ok about it....

With the apparent large gap between the "haves" and "have-nots" in NO, how do we know that the reason those school busses didn't show up in the 9th ward as they were promised, was that maybe Nagin secretly wanted to rid his city of that whole element? Plus the larger the loss, the larger the financial assistance would be....

I'm sorry, but Nagin is a creep. He wants so badly to be a celebrity. We can blame this all on the federal government all we want, but the stupidity that went down inside that state and NO local government before and duuring that storm was phenominal. Nagin calling the governor for help and her refusing to order the National Guard to be activated is just one instance...

[BITEYOASS]

Probably if Nagin gets stabbed by one of his own so-called chocolate people, then he'll probably think otherwise.

[BITEYOASS]

Hell speaking of shitty mayor's. I can't wait for Kwame Kilpatrick to get shot by one of his own crew. And maybe even a federal prison sentence for corruption and racketeering.

[ALMOSTsaved]

Originally posted by Ellyllions
I'm sorry, but Nagin is a creep. He wants so badly to be a celebrity. We can blame this all on the federal government all we want, but the stupidity that went down inside that state and NO local government before and duuring that storm was phenominal. Nagin calling the governor for help and her refusing to order the National Guard to be activated is just one instance...

I totally agree. Also of note, what pisses us off down here is the simple fact that the people who were on the LOCAL news the week before the storm saying that the govt had NO right to force them to evacuate were the very same ones on NATIONAL news in the weeks AFTER the storm saying that the govt did nothing to help them....

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Ellyllions
One question has been churning over and over in my head since it happened. The only reason I've never mentioned it before is out of respect for so many people who lost so much, but I think in the wake of this I can say it now and feel ok about it....

With the apparent large gap between the "haves" and "have-nots" in NO, how do we know that the reason those school busses didn't show up in the 9th ward as they were promised,

"Promised?" There's no evidence that Nagin even knew they were available. And who was going to drive them? If you want to just blame Nagin (and he deserves SOME), then compare how "smoothly" the evacuation of Houston went later that fall when they received a severe hurricane warning --it was a monumental clusterfuck of cars jammed onto the highway and gas stations with empty tanks as a traffic jam ensued, which could have resulted in many deaths if the storm had actually hit!

The storm surge overwhelmed the city. Simple as that! I talked to a black guy who was a "have-not" about going through that shit. He was rescued by a USCG chopper off the roof of his house (he was a great storyteller, he sent fucking shivers up my spine).

He said after the horrific storm (which sounded like being inside a jet engine) was over, the sun came out and things cleared up quite a bit. In fact, he was about to go out drinking, in relief, when he saw the flood waters rushing in, and had to run back to his house and get to his roof.

I agree, Nagin is a mental case at this point. But to blame him for the Katrina storm swell is like blaming the Mayor of Hiroshima...


...was that maybe Nagin secretly wanted to rid his city of that whole element? Plus the larger the loss, the larger the financial assistance would be....I'm sorry, but Nagin is a creep. He wants so badly to be a celebrity. We can blame this all on the federal government all we want, but the stupidity that went down inside that state and NO local government before and duuring that storm was phenominal. Nagin calling the governor for help and her refusing to order the National Guard to be activated is just one instance...


You sound like Ford talking about 9/11 here. Conspiracy bullshit! How do you reconcile that with his "chocolate city" debacle? In fact, there are many conspiracy theories involving "white devils" "blowing-up the levees" to achieve exactly that! And it's all complete bullshit.

The bottom line is that the levees should have held, and it's not all the US Army Corp's fault. In fact, there is documentation that the USACE funding requests were serially underfunded by the Feds, and especially the Bush Admin in order to fund the War in Iraq. I've posted the article here before from the local NO paper posted shortly after the storm, and it resulted in a shit storm by the "blame Nagin" crowd, who couldn't fucking explain the abysmal FEMA relief effort, and the Federal Gov'ts failures in general (with the possible heroic exception of the Coast Guard).

I mean, post fucking-9/11, is it too much to ask that the Feds can respond to a major catastrophe a little better?

Nagin has his failings in this, but who had the resources?

Who decided to allow New Orleans to continue to be the biggest port of call for petroleum resources with shitty, outdated levees? Granted, there is much corruption in that city, and people were allowed to build in areas that were formally thought to be too far below sea-level. But still, the levees should have stood up better.

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
"Promised?" There's no evidence that Nagin even knew they were available. And who was going to drive them?


If he didn't know about the buses, he was unprepared...like the rest of them. Also, anyone can drive a school bus...especially if a storm is bearing down on their ass.

I talked to a black guy who was a "have-not" about going through that shit.

Geez, Nick is making stuff up again. :rolleyes:

[frankenshit]

And New Orleans isnt suing the corps, they are suing America.
You cant sue an institution. Like saying you will sue the US govt.
Its such a mess down there its not even funny. Those poor people are suffering and still not on the brink of rebuilding. Some would say its social cleansing believe it or not.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Geez, Nick is making stuff up again. :rolleyes:

I'm "making shit up again???"

Fuck you, BigJamie'sCryin...

The whole flooded schoolbus thing was a preemptive ass-covering, based on a satellite photo, of the FEMA fuckwits like Brownie, and you know it!!

Why didn't the feds get some bus drivers down there then?

[Ellyllions]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
"Promised?" There's no evidence that Nagin even knew they were available. And who was going to drive them? If you want to just blame Nagin (and he deserves SOME), then compare how "smoothly" the evacuation of Houston went later that fall when they received a severe hurricane warning --it was a monumental clusterfuck of cars jammed onto the highway and gas stations with empty tanks as a traffic jam ensued, which could have resulted in many deaths if the storm had actually hit!

Promised? Weren't police officers going house to house telling those who didn't have transportation that the busses would be by? I mean thats the report we heard over and over the day the forecast models showed what was coming. So who lied to the media? Yet media helicopters showed us the bus parking lots full of flooded school busses. And how much time did the city have to plan for this? It's kind of like a train coming, it doesn't pop from around a corner. Nagin AND his governor deserve the lions share of the before and the immediate after storm situation.


I agree, Nagin is a mental case at this point. But to blame him for the Katrina storm swell is like blaming the Mayor of Hiroshima...
This is a completeist statement. Just because I'm talking about Nagin doesn't mean that I'm solely blaming him. This is an article about him. He's the ultimate topic.



You sound like Ford talking about 9/11 here. Conspiracy bullshit! How do you reconcile that with his "chocolate city" debacle? In fact, there are many conspiracy theories involving "white devils" "blowing-up the levees" to achieve exactly that! And it's all complete bullshit.
How would I reconcile it? Politicin' at it's finest. Say what you need to and then do what you want. Honesty isn't an issue. A great bit of help from some of the country's race issues at use. That's how I reconcile it. Don't act like it never happens. Just because he's black doesn't mean he thinks they're all equal. You can see it in his voice. He breaks out that victim card anytime it's useful to him. I know you're not blind.


The bottom line is that the levees should have held, and it's not all the US Army Corp's fault. In fact, there is documentation that the USACE funding requests were serially underfunded by the Feds, and especially the Bush Admin in order to fund the War in Iraq. I've posted the article here before from the local NO paper posted shortly after the storm, and it resulted in a shit storm by the "blame Nagin" crowd, who couldn't fucking explain the abysmal FEMA relief effort, and the Federal Gov'ts failures in general (with the possible heroic exception of the Coast Guard).

I mean, post fucking-9/11, is it too much to ask that the Feds can respond to a major catastrophe a little better?

Nagin has his failings in this, but who had the resources?

Who decided to allow New Orleans to continue to be the biggest port of call for petroleum resources with shitty, outdated levees? Granted, there is much corruption in that city, and people were allowed to build in areas that were formally thought to be too far below sea-level. But still, the levees should have stood up better.

I completely agree that those levees should've been attended too and WAY before 2001. The whole Country took for granted that was a "safe" area because of complacency. The only reason anyone is even looking to the War for the dollars is because the issue is a political "hot bed" ( 'Why isn't the SPCA better funded?' "Because all the money is going to Iraq." :rolleyes: )

Blood is on Nagin's hands too. He should've had a better evac plan that included emergency procedures IN THE EVENT that the levees (of a city below sea level (fucking "duh")) failed. It was a major failure for all suppoed responding resources.

But for Nagin to bring this kind of inflated lawsuit is ridiculous! Simply money hungry pandering victim mentality STUPID!

[Guitar Shark]

Originally posted by FORD
However it's my understanding that much of that funding was diverted to the useless, illegal, immoral occupation of Iraq, which would make the Defense Department more to blame than the Corps of Engineers itself.

LMFAO...

I can use some entertainment today... what's your source for this "understanding"?

[Ellyllions]

I mean, post fucking-9/11, is it too much to ask that the Feds can respond to a major catastrophe a little better?

Nagin has his failings in this, but who had the resources?


One more thing, we gotta make up our minds what we want. Do we want the feds to have the power to take over for our State governments in the event of an emergency or not?

Legislation recently passed that the feds could activate a State's National Guard revolves aound LA's Governor failing to do just this. She wouldn't activate them!!! A state Governor has to ASK the feds for help. Hence, State's INDEPENDENCE TO GOVERN ITSELF! .

Yet she turned up her nose while 10,000+/- people in the Superdome waited in squalor.

But it's the Feds?

[Guitar Shark]

There's enough blame to go around at all levels of government for the horrible response to Katrina. Federal, state local... failure on every level.

[Ellyllions]

Originally posted by Guitar Shark
There's enough blame to go around at all levels of government for the horrible response to Katrina. Federal, state local... failure on every level.

Amen!

So should this lawsuit be brought about?

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Ellyllions
Promised? Weren't police officers going house to house telling those who didn't have transportation that the busses would be by? I mean thats the report we heard over and over the day the forecast models showed what was coming.

What "report?" From where? What station?

The plan was to get people to the infamous Superdome, then to get help.

There was a meltdown in planning, but Katrina was actually forecast to miss New Orleans, not hit it dead center...



So who lied to the media? Yet media helicopters showed us the bus parking lots full of flooded school busses. And how much time did the city have to plan for this? It's kind of like a train coming, it doesn't pop from around a corner. Nagin AND his governor deserve the lions share of the before and the immediate after storm situation.

And how would have busing people out have stopped the flooding of the city? Over 1000 died, do you think that the numbers would have been any different had the buses been running? How the fuck are the buses supposed to run in the middle of a hurricane?

And New Orleans had called for an evacuation during a previous hurricane threat a few years back, just as Nagin had. But nothing happened, so people decided to ride this one out and yes many were too poor to get out.



This is a completeist statement. Just because I'm talking about Nagin doesn't mean that I'm solely blaming him. This is an article about him. He's the ultimate topic.

No. You're just accusing him of being a part of some conspiracy to drown poor blacks so rich white people could build houses in the lowest part of the city.:rolleyes:


How would I reconcile it? Politicin' at it's finest. Say what you need to and then do what you want. Honesty isn't an issue.

Oh, that's rich! Thanks for the lecture Bush-voter.:rolleyes:



A great bit of help from some of the country's race issues at use. That's how I reconcile it. Don't act like it never happens. Just because he's black doesn't mean he thinks they're all equal. You can see it in his voice. He breaks out that victim card anytime it's useful to him. I know you're not blind.

Oh yeah, sorry, you're absolutely "right."

Mayor Nagin intentionally allowed poor black people to drowned so he could build condos in the 9th Ward, that's just brilliant.

BTW, do you have any actual evidence to support this?


I completely agree that those levees should've been attended too and WAY before 2001. The whole Country took for granted that was a "safe" area because of complacency.

NO! The "whole country" did not!! There were many engineers in NO screaming about them for years, and the Times Picyune had a long-running series on it.

I agree the lawsuit is stupid, but clearly, there's a double standard when it comes to response in Florida and New Orleans...


The only reason anyone is even looking to the War for the dollars is because the issue is a political "hot bed" ( 'Why isn't the SPCA better funded?' "Because all the money is going to Iraq." :rolleyes: )

Oh, another rich statement!

Feel free to lecture me on facts an issues connected to the industry I work in. The FACT is that building materials have gone up considerably, and domestic Federal projects now routinely run out of money and must shutdown, due to Iraqi "reconstruction."

So let's summarize yuour arguments here:

1.) Mayor Nagin intentionally allowed his city to flood, and didn't bus out the poor blacks, so they could be lkilled and ethnically cleansed by Hurricane Katrina.

-But-

2.) Domestic infrastructure projects are routinely shut down due to lack of federal funding, but it has nothing to do with funding of the war in Iraq by sending monies to corrupt black hole contractors..

It all just started in 2003 magically!!

Yeah, um, okay. :rolleyes:




Blood is on Nagin's hands too. He should've had a better evac plan that included emergency procedures IN THE EVENT that the levees (of a city below sea level (fucking "duh")) failed. It was a major failure for all suppoed responding resources.

Yeah, especially those that failed to insure the levees were up to snuff. Which wasn't necessarily the USACE.



But for Nagin to bring this kind of inflated lawsuit is ridiculous! Simply money hungry pandering victim mentality STUPID!

You're right! he should sue the Bush Administration...

[Ellyllions]

There's only one thing left for me to say in our argument Nick because basically you lost all credibility in this when you tried the "Bush-voter" thing. :rolleyes:

That one thing is this....

I don't have any evidence to support what I stated about Nagin. Iwas just speaking my ponderings. If you think I'm wrong, stupid, or just plain dumb...so what. But this I'm sure of, Nagin's a creep, and this lawsuit is bullsit.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Ellyllions
There's only one thing left for me to say in our argument Nick because basically you lost all credibility in this when you tried the "Bush-voter" thing. :rolleyes:

Oh sorry! Who'd you vote for?


That one thing is this....

I don't have any evidence to support what I stated about Nagin. Iwas just speaking my ponderings. If you think I'm wrong, stupid, or just plain dumb...so what. But this I'm sure of, Nagin's a creep, and this lawsuit is bullsit.

I never said any of the above. The lawsuit is stupid, Nagin is a bit of a jerk with an exaggerated bad reputation. But what happened with the levees is what is inexcusable...

[EAT MY ASSHOLE]

Originally posted by Guitar Shark
There's enough blame to go around at all levels of government for the horrible response to Katrina. Federal, state local... failure on every level.

I blame you.

[Nitro Express]

Chocolate city? Who in the fuck does Nagin think he is? Willy Wonka? Fuck dude, just have your Ompa Loompas fix your damn city.

[Satan]

The problem with the school buses was one of the Republicons favorite words...

Privatization.

If such a flood happenned in most other cities, it would be a simple matter of contacting the school district who owns the buses, commandeering them in the name of an emergency and loading them up.

That's not how it works in New Orleans. The buses are owned by "independent contractors". Which means a lot more phone calls, and a hell of a lot more people involved in the plan.

Some things simply shouldn't be privatized. Mass transportation is one of them. Emergency management is another.

[Guitar Shark]

Originally posted by Satan
The problem with the school buses was one of the Republicons favorite words...

Privatization.

If such a flood happenned in most other cities, it would be a simple matter of contacting the school district who owns the buses, commandeering them in the name of an emergency and loading them up.

That's not how it works in New Orleans. The buses are owned by "independent contractors". Which means a lot more phone calls, and a hell of a lot more people involved in the plan.

Some things simply shouldn't be privatized. Mass transportation is one of them. Emergency management is another.

What a bunch of BS.

The New Orleans Emergency Plan clearly placed this burden on Nagin, and when asked about it, he didn't identify "privatization" as the reason why he didn't do it. His excuses ranged from a lack of drivers to racism.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=46269

Yes, the federal response to the tragedy was horribly insufficient... but that doesn't change the fact that Nagin and Blanco are TOOLS.

[FORD]

Privatization was the REASON for the lack of drivers.

When you have a school district owned bus system, you also have professionally trained drivers. In the case of New Orleans, the individual bus owners didn't.

Furthermore, the school buses were considered inadequate for emergency evacuation - especially that of children and the elderly - because they have neither air conditioning nor bathrooms (unlike a chartered Greyhound type bus) and long delays of traffic were expected in evacuating the city.

[Guitar Shark]

Originally posted by FORD
Privatization was the REASON for the lack of drivers.


Funny, but Nagin disagrees with you. He blames fear of the storm, not privatization.

His quote from the article I posted:

Sure, there was lots of buses out there," Nagin said. "But guess what? You can't find drivers that would stay behind with a Category 5 hurricane, you know, pending down on New Orleans. We barely got enough drivers to move people on Sunday, or Saturday and Sunday, to move them to the Superdome. We barely had enough drivers for that. So sure, we had the assets, but the drivers just weren't available."