A friend of mine could get called up to go to Iraq again.

[Nitro Express]

A have a friend who is one of Bush's volunteers and say's his unit could be called up again. He cracked me up when he said he would go back to Iraq if it was just himself but what he hated most was the military politics. He said they train and train but the military treats them like children.

What I see inside and outside of the military is a universal discust of the huge govt. and military beurocracy we are gooed up with. This soldier gets pissed when the govt. doesn't trust him with a bolt in his M-16 but he has to constantly train and has been on a tour of duty already.

He says as soon as you come home, they treat you like children stateside. I said fuck, at Veteran's outpatient facilities, they don't even treat you like a fucking human being.

[FORD]

What would happen if the whole unit, including the commander, refused to go? And then every other unit they tried to send over did the same thing?

They can't court martial everyone. And if they tried, the illegality of the war will be called into question.

[Ellyllions]

Originally posted by Nitro Express
A have a friend who is one of Bush's volunteers and say's his unit could be called up again. He cracked me up when he said he would go back to Iraq if it was just himself but what he hated most was the military politics. He said they train and train but the military treats them like children.

What I see inside and outside of the military is a universal discust of the huge govt. and military beurocracy we are gooed up with. This soldier gets pissed when the govt. doesn't trust him with a bolt in his M-16 but he has to constantly train and has been on a tour of duty already.

He says as soon as you come home, they treat you like children stateside. I said fuck, at Veteran's outpatient facilities, they don't even treat you like a fucking human being.

Give him some well-wishes from me. And thank him.

I can see how it would be frustrating with the all the civil rights groups and allegations keeping them pretty hog-tied. I'll bet they're even counting bullets at this point.

I talked to a guy the other day who's wife has pulled 2 tours and he was telling me that the amount of "in-action" (not meaning firefight, just meaning long arduous shifts of basically mundane bullshit) has caused all sorts of problems in the camps. He said that they're having a lot of disciplinary violations taking place and that it all stems around the soldiers not being able to behave like soldiers.

[hideyoursheep]

Originally posted by Ellyllions
Give him some well-wishes from me. And thank him.

I can see how it would be frustrating with the all the civil rights groups and allegations keeping them pretty hog-tied. I'll bet they're even counting bullets at this point.

I talked to a guy the other day who's wife has pulled 2 tours and he was telling me that the amount of "in-action" (not meaning firefight, just meaning long arduous shifts of basically mundane bullshit) has caused all sorts of problems in the camps. He said that they're having a lot of disciplinary violations taking place and that it all stems around the soldiers not being able to behave like soldiers.

I hated garrison.....

[BITEYOASS]

Originally posted by hideyoursheep
I hated garrison.....

LOL who doesn't! The USMC seems to screw people less than the Army does. They're stingy with the medals, the promotions are difficult to earn and deployments can be an out right pain in the ass sometimes. But Liberty is just rip roaring alcohol induced, lap-dance, hoggin, risky outdoor recreational activity (cliff diving, hunting, dirt biking) fun. Even though most of the time on liberty I just plain ride my bicycle all over the place for most of the day, it was good to get away from some of the prick SNCO's and NCO's for the weekend.

[hideyoursheep]

"Liberty"?......What's this?.......

[hideyoursheep]

Originally posted by hideyoursheep
"Liberty"?......What's this?.......

Oh, it must be "leave", or a "pass"....

I was not a "garrison" type individual....some were really good at it, but sucked out loud in the field. When I left my first duty station after 3 + years of being in a line unit, I was assigned to a TDA unit and it was a total shock to my system. It was laughable. But, the mission there was to train others, that was the priority. I'm gonna ramble...I'm done....

[hideyoursheep]

Originally posted by BITEYOASS
LOL who doesn't! The USMC seems to screw people less than the Army does.

Lucky you! I think there's less screwin' maybe cause there's less of you to screw!

The one thing that I noticed as far as differences between the Corps. and the Army was that you's weren't always given the high-end stuff until later on,(this was back in the day,mind you) and there seemed to be more of a separation between ranks, like staff NCO's didn't hang with lower-ranking NCO's...

[Phil theStalker]

Y'know, there are these kids growing up next door t2o me without their dad. He's a young kid himself. They have grown from 3 and 4 years old to 7 and 8 year olds without their dad. He's only in the reserves.

WARPIGS ON THE WING!


:spank:

[Nitro Express]

I think the Marine Corps have better training for the average soldier than the US Army does. They never lost the "One Shot One Kill" mentality while the Army went to the spray and pray method.

My friend spent his last tour in Tikrit and patroling the Iran border. He also worked with the Kurds who he says are very pro US and good people.

He says the problem in Iraq is it's turned into urban fighting in cities built of cinder block construction. Ambushes are a problem. He said the current issue M-16 with the three round burst is worthless. He says they are so long they are cumbersom to handle in vehicles and the 5.56 Nato just doesn't put the enemy down or penetrate anything.

He says the Soviet styled AK weapons in 7,62x39 with a folding stock do the job well. Iraq is awash in them and the Marines are already rearsenaling them and putting red dot sights on them using a side rail that is commercially available.

He said his National Guard uniit wanted to import some Kaloshnikov weapons so they could train on them stateside but the beurocracy won't let them. They still train on the M-16 A3 eventhough, it's a poor weapn for the situation in Iraq.

My friend just got promoted to colnel and now can carry a Barretta M-9. He said it's better in an ambush than the full size M-16 is ironically. He said what they really need is folding stock assault rifles that fire a 30 caliber round that can penetrate cinderblock and shock a doped up terrorist. A tankers AKM in 7,62x39 will do the job if it has armor piercing bullets. We are issuing these to the Iraqi military but not are own guys. I guess the special forces use them.

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by Nitro Express
I think the Marine Corps have better training for the average soldier than the US Army does. They never lost the "One Shot One Kill" mentality while the Army went to the spray and pray method.

My friend spent his last tour in Tikrit and patroling the Iran border. He also worked with the Kurds who he says are very pro US and good people.

He says the problem in Iraq is it's turned into urban fighting in cities built of cinder block construction. Ambushes are a problem. He said the current issue M-16 with the three round burst is worthless. He says they are so long they are cumbersom to handle in vehicles and the 5.56 Nato just doesn't put the enemy down or penetrate anything.

He says the Soviet styled AK weapons in 7,62x39 with a folding stock do the job well. Iraq is awash in them and the Marines are already rearsenaling them and putting red dot sights on them using a side rail that is commercially available.

He said his National Guard uniit wanted to import some Kaloshnikov weapons so they could train on them stateside but the beurocracy won't let them. They still train on the M-16 A3 eventhough, it's a poor weapn for the situation in Iraq.

My friend just got promoted to colnel and now can carry a Barretta M-9. He said it's better in an ambush than the full size M-16 is ironically. He said what they really need is folding stock assault rifles that fire a 30 caliber round that can penetrate cinderblock and shock a doped up terrorist. A tankers AKM in 7,62x39 will do the job if it has armor piercing bullets. We are issuing these to the Iraqi military but not are own guys. I guess the special forces use them.

I see a lot of M4's with the troops on TV. The problem: while they are shorter and more suited for an urban environment, they still use the NATO round.

I don't know why we've used a fuckin .223 round for so long. Yeah, I know it's supposed to tumble inside a person's body and do more damage, but it just doesn't have enough stopping power for those damned insurgents who are hopped up on drugs.

:(

[hideyoursheep]

Originally posted by Nitro Express
I think the Marine Corps have better training for the average soldier than the US Army does. They never lost the "One Shot One Kill" mentality while the Army went to the spray and pray method.
The USMC spends more time in basic than the Army,but at least where I was concerned the training never stopped..the "pray and spray method"? Who uses this but insurgents? "What can be seen can be hit. What can be hit can be killed." What the grunts are doing today I don't know, but in every engagement it seems to be working.




He said what they really need is folding stock assault rifles that fire a 30 caliber round that can penetrate cinderblock and shock a doped up terrorist.
I did some MOUT training with a British Para unit in the late '80's. Some of the guys had .30cal subs which we thought were a joke..they were geared up for this type of envionment. We asked what good those little things would do, and the response was,"well, it can blow the balls off an Irishmen at 50 meters!"
It may be relative to how it functions in the sandbox, but it's something the DoD should look into.


A tankers AKM in 7,62x39 will do the job if it has armor piercing bullets. We are issuing these to the Iraqi military but not are own guys. I guess the special forces use them. The Ma Deuce still works very well for us.

[hideyoursheep]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
I see a lot of M4's with the troops on TV. The problem: while they are shorter and more suited for an urban environment, they still use the NATO round.

I don't know why we've used a fuckin .223 round for so long. Yeah, I know it's supposed to tumble inside a person's body and do more damage, but it just doesn't have enough stopping power for those damned insurgents who are hopped up on drugs.
:( I hated the idea of being limited to a 3 round burst from the A2's.
Anybody know if the old .45 cal. "grease gun" is still in service?

[hideyoursheep]

Originally posted by Phil theStalker
Y'know, there are these kids growing up next door t2o me without their dad. He's a young kid himself. They have grown from 3 and 4 years old to 7 and 8 year olds without their dad. He's only in the reserves.

WARPIGS ON THE WING! :spank: He's not the only one leaving his family behind......

The sooner they can end this thing, the sooner they all get to come home, regardless of who started it or why.....

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by hideyoursheep
I hated the idea of being limited to a 3 round burst from the A2's.
Anybody know if the old .45 cal. "grease gun" is still in service?

Nope.

Replaced by the M4.

[hideyoursheep]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Nope.

Replaced by the M4.

When?

[Nitro Express]

The 5.56 Nato was a product of McNamara's wiz kids. The more ammo you can carry the more enemy soldiers you kill. Then in Vietnam they discovered we wasted over 200,000 rounds per every enemy soldier killed. So they put on a three round burst.

The result was an inferior round with no sustained firepower. They also use a heavier bullet in the new Nato round and it overpenetrated on soft targets with no knockdown power and breaks up on hard targets.

A slower 30 caliber round has more shocking power and is better suited for urban warfare. The Soviet 7,62x39 is just about perfect. A 7,62 NATO does the job even better but the high recoil makes it almost useless in short, automatic weapons without a muzzle break and then you are permanently damaging people's hearing with all the noise.

[Nitro Express]

You aren't carrying Ma Duece when you are going in and out of a Humvee. Full Automatic 50 Cal. is unquestionably king of the hill but Ma Duece is a heavy fucker and you can't exactly carry it on a sling over your shoulder.

[hideyoursheep]

Originally posted by Nitro Express
You aren't carrying Ma Duece when you are going in and out of a Humvee. Full Automatic 50 Cal. is unquestionably king of the hill but Ma Duece is a heavy fucker and you can't exactly carry it on a sling over your shoulder.

Right.......

Being how they're mounted on damn near everything, there's always one in the vicinity, yes?

Does anyone carry a M203 anymore? Call me superstitious, but it seemed like the rifle was more accurate once zero'ed...maybe just me....

The M60 was a cumbersome sumbitch-not my favorite....