Who is gonna get us off oil?

[studly hungwell]

Its early in the campaign and gas is really expensive all across the country. Not one fucking candidate thus far is going to get us off of oil.....not one. Am I a genius or a retard? What party wouldn't jump on this opportunity to win votes? Ethanol?.....maybe.....Coal gassification?.....more likely. The thing is no one will invest in it. As soon as you start making headway and building facilities OPEC will drop the cost of oil making the gassified coal unable to compete in the market. Just like we pay Sam Donaldson not to grow rutabaggas on his farmland....we need to subsidize this effort so that OPEC can't kill it and investors can profit from it. Imagine a day when this country doesn't need oil. Arabs can wallow in ignorance....Isreal would have to take care of themselves....beauty......peace.

Oh yeah....I think Bush's plan was, "off of oil in 25 years", this is pure bullshit. It would take 5 years tops if it were a priority of the US Govnt.

[studly hungwell]

I have to add one more thought to this...don't look for any Democrat to support coal gassification or ethanol. It 'seems' to me that if you don't want to turn off the base, you have to be into solar or wind power. Hydrocarbons are a no-no. You know....the bogus global warming bullshit. Although, the UMWA are a big contributor to the DNC and their candidates.....could we have an impass here? Have I planted a seed? Probably not.

[FORD]

All the more reason for Gore to get in this thing. Nobody can question his commitment to the environment.

[studly hungwell]

Originally posted by FORD
All the more reason for Gore to get in this thing. Nobody can question his commitment to the environment.


Agreed!

[VanHalener]

The air car...

http://www.theaircar.com/

[FORD]

That air car looks like an interesting idea, but God help you if you get in a collision while driving one.

I think about the only way they could insure safety with those things is to make them mandatory within city limits. And then all the cars will be on equal footing. Just have to avoid the buses and trains....

Of course, some people would insist upon their "rights" to drive a 30 ft long gashog in the city, which is not only criminally selfish, but fucking ridiculous. And it's killing this country. Literally.

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by FORD
All the more reason for Gore to get in this thing. Nobody can question his commitment to the environment.

I wonder if algore likes bass fishin'. Hell, he's supposedly from Tennessee.

:cool:

[Nickdfresh]

However we get off oil, it's going to be a painful transition and it will cost money...

But then again, isn't the reason that we still spend over 50% of the world's military funding, and over $400 Billion a year now, is so we can project forces to the Middle East?

[knuckleboner]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
However we get off oil, it's going to be a painful transition and it will cost money...

But then again, isn't the reason that we still spend over 50% of the world's military funding, and over $400 Billion a year now, is so we can project forces to the Middle East?

yep. getting off oil in 5 years is a...pipe...dream.

but that's fine. we don't need to be off in 5 or 10 or 15 years. we just need a concrete plan.

not one that says: ethanol. or fusion power. or wind energy. or hydrogen. but one that says them all. continue to incentivize hybrid technology.

hybrids are good because they don't require a change in infrastructure. you still use the same gas. the same gas stations. just less of it. and start incentivizing plug-in hybrids. that's more immediate term results. within 5 years we can easily get a dramatic increase in the percentage of hybrid vehicles out there.


at the same time, investment in a flexible fuel (bio diesel and E85 ethnanol) distribution network can begin. start funding the construction of more flexible fuel stations. the more stations there are, the more people will be willing to buy those vehicles.

and so on, and so on...

[Nickdfresh]

I'd like to see more taxes on fuel, and actual CAFE standards that are not rife with semantic bullshit meant to keep prices down on SUVs and pickups that people largely no longer want anyways...

[WACF]

Read today in a diesel mag that anything over 5% Biodiesel is harmful to the engine life.

Same thing goes for heavy Ethanol blends in gasoline engines.

[studly hungwell]

Originally posted by knuckleboner
yep. getting off oil in 5 years is a...pipe...dream.

but that's fine. we don't need to be off in 5 or 10 or 15 years. we just need a concrete plan.

not one that says: ethanol. or fusion power. or wind energy. or hydrogen. but one that says them all. continue to incentivize hybrid technology.

hybrids are good because they don't require a change in infrastructure. you still use the same gas. the same gas stations. just less of it. and start incentivizing plug-in hybrids. that's more immediate term results. within 5 years we can easily get a dramatic increase in the percentage of hybrid vehicles out there.


at the same time, investment in a flexible fuel (bio diesel and E85 ethnanol) distribution network can begin. start funding the construction of more flexible fuel stations. the more stations there are, the more people will be willing to buy those vehicles.

and so on, and so on...


Pipe dream? Guarantee profit for investors and see how long it will take. I am a firm believer in the free market system. At its best...it can move mountains overnight.

[studly hungwell]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
I'd like to see more taxes on fuel, and actual CAFE standards that are not rife with semantic bullshit meant to keep prices down on SUVs and pickups that people largely no longer want anyways...

Am I to gather from your post that you want government to influence what is purchased in a free marketplace? Respectfully, the more govnt medels in the free market the more trouble it causes. More taxes on fuel? I don't want to sound shitty, but, that logic followed to its ends will have only the very wealthy able to afford it. In truth, your vision of 'how it should be' will destroy the middle class and have the wealthy dodging horses and bicycles as they speed along in their lamborginis.

[FORD]

Originally posted by studly hungwell
I am a firm believer in the free market system. At its best...it can move mountains overnight.

Then you must realize that the free market system no longer exists in this country, especially in the energy industry (among others).

When you have 4 or 5 huge multinational companies dominating an industry, which eliminates any realistic chance of competition, that's not a free market.

And when those 4 or 5 multinationals have the White House in their back pocket, it's called fascism, based on the definition of Benito Mussolini, who more or less invented the term.

[studly hungwell]

Originally posted by FORD
Then you must realize that the free market system no longer exists in this country, especially in the energy industry (among others).

When you have 4 or 5 huge multinational companies dominating an industry, which eliminates any realistic chance of competition, that's not a free market.

And when those 4 or 5 multinationals have the White House in their back pocket, it's called fascism, based on the definition of Benito Mussolini, who more or less invented the term.

I'm sorry, Ford, I don't equate any Fascist leader with wisdom and knowledge. These men know little more than how to prey on the ignorance of the populace and use it to secure their own power. I'm sure our system is ripe with corruption but I'm confident it is the best thing going in the world today. Your statement suggests that there is a stifle concerning energy policy....that may be so, but, companies like Arch Minerals and Massey Energy would love to be the next Exxon-Mobil and they could be with subsidies. Their shareholders want to be filthy rich too.

[knuckleboner]

Originally posted by studly hungwell
Pipe dream? Guarantee profit for investors and see how long it will take. I am a firm believer in the free market system. At its best...it can move mountains overnight.

yeah, but it can't make 100 million car owners suddenly purchase new vehicles within 5 years.

the system is currently set up as a gasoline system. to change that will take time. you can make a dent in 5 years, but you can't completely change the system.

[studly hungwell]

Originally posted by knuckleboner
yeah, but it can't make 100 million car owners suddenly purchase new vehicles within 5 years.

the system is currently set up as a gasoline system. to change that will take time. you can make a dent in 5 years, but you can't completely change the system.


Dude....the plan doesn't change the vehicles.....it changes the source of gasoline.

[knuckleboner]

if that's the case, then it's not really getting us off oil, is it?

[scamper]

Originally posted by studly hungwell
Respectfully, the more govnt medels in the free market the more trouble it causes. More taxes on fuel? I don't want to sound shitty, but, that logic followed to its ends will have only the very wealthy able to afford it. In truth, your vision of 'how it should be' will destroy the middle class and have the wealthy dodging horses and bicycles as they speed along in their lamborginis.

That's the truth, we do need to get off of gas, but the middle class and poor aren't going to run out and buy anything right off the assembly line just to change the world. As far as the gov. getting more involved I think we've had plenty of that lately. I really don't understand the way people bitch about the gov tapping some phones in the name of safety and then saying it's ok for the gov to tell people that they can't smoke in their own business or drive a certain type of vehicle in the name of safety. I'm for less gov intervention, but that's just me I guess.

[studly hungwell]

Originally posted by knuckleboner
if that's the case, then it's not really getting us off oil, is it?


Dude, I really don't want to sound rude here, but, gasoline does not have to be made from oil. It can be made from coal as well....which we have plenty of.....and coal is not oil. If we make gas from coal.....doesn't that get us off of oil?