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VanHalener
04-16-2007, 12:11 PM
This is a rapidly devolping story here in Virginia...

"BLACKSBURG, Va. - Gunfire erupted in a dorm and classroom at Virginia Tech on Monday, killing at least one person before police arrested a suspect, authorities said. A hospital spokesman said that 17 students had been injured.

The university told students to stay inside and away from windows as police swept the campus and worked to establish whether the gunman acted alone.

On the Web site, Tech reported the shootings at opposite ends of the 2,600-acre campus at West Ambler Johnston, a co-ed residence hall that houses 895 people, and said there were "multiple victims" at Norris Hall, an engineering building..."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18134671/?GT1=9246

CNN is broadcasting video and pictures.

knuckleboner
04-16-2007, 12:44 PM
tragically...the update is at least 20 people dead...

cnn.com (http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/16/vtech.shooting/index.html)

PETE'S BROTHER
04-16-2007, 12:56 PM
22 now on nbc

The_KiD
04-16-2007, 12:58 PM
Horrible..

KiD

VanHalener
04-16-2007, 01:08 PM
I'm waiting to hear from my buddy who has a daughter attending Va Tech.

:(

The_KiD
04-16-2007, 01:17 PM
Originally posted by vanhalener
I'm waiting to hear from my buddy who has a daughter attending Va Tech.

:(

Yea, I have friends there too. Way to close to home..

KiD

DLRdelight!
04-16-2007, 02:18 PM
i cant believe shit like this happens man. it is so unfair so so sad

PETE'S BROTHER
04-16-2007, 02:36 PM
shit they are at 30 or more dead now

Golden AWe
04-16-2007, 02:39 PM
Grate. Is this one of the areas you can order guns via mail?

VanHalener
04-16-2007, 02:50 PM
Originally posted by Golden AWe
Grate. Is this one of the areas you can order guns via mail?

Simply put, no. Ordered weapons are sent to dealers for you to pick up: if you qualify.



So far I have heard my Buddy's daughter is fine. Still waiting on news of other friends.

Rumor... Man and woman break up. Woman is student, man ? at this time.

Man goes to dorm and shoots her and resident assistant.

Man later shoots others at different location..

Hardrock69
04-16-2007, 03:36 PM
31 now.

This is so fucked up.

Too bad they shot and killed the bastard.....I would push for legislation that would allow cruel and unusual torture to be used on goddamnable fucks like this!!!!

:mad:

chi-town324
04-16-2007, 03:45 PM
now 32.. whats wrong with people?

Viking
04-16-2007, 05:32 PM
Up to 33 now........

Nickdfresh
04-16-2007, 06:09 PM
The shooter is described as an Asian, 20-something male that committed a very messy suicide...

This is just terrible.:(

Viking
04-16-2007, 06:29 PM
Damn. I drive through Blacksburg every Christmas. Nice little town. What's going on with people up there? This is twice in one year that shit has hit the fan on campus.........

Ally_Kat
04-16-2007, 06:29 PM
If you're so miserable that you don't want to have anything to do with life, don't kill other people who might just be dandy. That just makes you an asshole.

Viking
04-16-2007, 06:36 PM
They say they're having a hard time putting an ID to this maggot. He had nothing on him, and he took half his face off when he put the gun to his head.........

Unchainme
04-16-2007, 06:58 PM
It's getting really tiring that these insane fuckers get guns and kill innocent people. John Lennon, Dimebag Darrell just to name a few...Fuck, Kurt Cobain too...No way he killed himself with that much heroin in his system.

Just am Sick of these idiots killing off Good people, Because they're fucked up in the head...

Dan
04-16-2007, 07:16 PM
What's this World coming to?

My prayers go out to All of the Family's involved.:(

mako_kimura
04-16-2007, 07:59 PM
This was scary for me, 'cause my Aunt goes to VA Tech. Thankfully her class was on the other side of the campus. Horrible event, though. This is worse than Columbine

Ozzy Fudd
04-16-2007, 08:04 PM
i have been watching this unfold all day, i can not beleive this world in which we live.

LoungeMachine
04-16-2007, 08:25 PM
Originally posted by Ozzy Fudd
i have been watching this unfold all day, i can not beleive this world in which we live.

World?

Country, bro. Country. :(

Name another country other than those we currently occupy where this takes place?

Former Soviets, China perhaps? Central America?

Put it this way....

Who do we consider a friend or ally, or great nation for that matter, has this happen nearly as much as we do?

We live in a gun-crazy country, and it shows.

It hurts to think about it. :(


damn.

Viking
04-16-2007, 08:34 PM
Interesting little tidbit from the Chicago Sun-Times.....

Authorities were investigating whether the gunman who killed 32 people on the Virginia Tech campus in the deadliest shooting rampage in U.S. history was a Chinese man who arrived in the United States last year on a student visa.


The 24-year-old man arrived in San Francisco on United Airlines on Aug. 7 on a visa issued in Shanghai, the source said. Investigators have not linked him to any terrorist groups, the source said.


Police believe three bomb threats on the campus last week may have been attempts by the man to test the campus’ security response, the source said.

http://www.suntimes.com/news/nation/343354,vatech041607.article

Ellyllions
04-16-2007, 08:40 PM
Had to stop watching the news.
I'm just sick over the whole thing.

rustoffa
04-16-2007, 08:47 PM
Heartbreaking news. It'll probably get worse as the story develops. Prayers and best wishes for the victims and families effected.
:(

Ellyllions
04-16-2007, 08:48 PM
I just hope there are no copycats to follow this.
The media has given the incident a moniker which makes it even more dangerous for copycat incidents.

If you work on a college campus, know someone who does, or are a student, be vigilent. Report anything suspicious no matter what it turns out to be. Stay safe.

Keef
04-16-2007, 09:13 PM
Originally posted by Hardrock69
31 now.

This is so fucked up.

Too bad they shot and killed the bastard.....I would push for legislation that would allow cruel and unusual torture to be used on goddamnable fucks like this!!!!

:mad:

Huh?

Tiki-Tom
04-16-2007, 09:33 PM
Don't know what to say, really. Tis a truly fucked up world we're livin' in. Whole lotta lives gone and a whole lot more changed forever. They tell me there's a reason for everything, but I'm failing to see one here.
R.I.P. good people:(

VanHalener
04-16-2007, 09:53 PM
All but one friend accounted for.

Have a friend with a son on combat duty as an Army Engineer and one taking engineering at Va Tech to prepare for his career in the Army.

No word yet. Fearing the worst.

Like Ellyllions, I cannot watch the news any longer. Feeling helpless...

The_KiD
04-16-2007, 10:07 PM
Originally posted by vanhalener
All but one friend accounted for.

Have a friend with a son on combat duty as an Army Engineer and one taking engineering at Va Tech to prepare for his career in the Army.

No word yet. Fearing the worst.

Like Ellyllions, I cannot watch the news any longer. Feeling helpless...

It is truly a truly sad situation and shelfish act of a coward..

KiD

sadaist
04-17-2007, 12:13 AM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine
World?

Country, bro. Country. :(

Name another country other than those we currently occupy where this takes place?

Former Soviets, China perhaps? Central America?

Put it this way....

Who do we consider a friend or ally, or great nation for that matter, has this happen nearly as much as we do?

We live in a gun-crazy country, and it shows.

It hurts to think about it. :(


damn.


You're absolutely right. The worst things happen in US occupied countries. Take Sudan for example.

frets5150
04-17-2007, 01:09 AM
Originally posted by Tiki-Tom
Don't know what to say, really. Tis a truly fucked up world we're livin' in. Whole lotta lives gone and a whole lot more changed forever. They tell me there's a reason for everything, but I'm failing to see one here.
R.I.P. good people:(

The world is fine it's the people in it that are FUCKED UP :o

Ally_Kat
04-17-2007, 01:24 AM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine
World?

Country, bro. Country. :(

Name another country other than those we currently occupy where this takes place?

Former Soviets, China perhaps? Central America?

Put it this way....

Who do we consider a friend or ally, or great nation for that matter, has this happen nearly as much as we do?

We live in a gun-crazy country, and it shows.

It hurts to think about it. :(


damn.


True, but this time it was a 24-year-old from Shanghai here on a student visa.

madraoul
04-17-2007, 01:36 AM
Just check out what happens now. This tragedy is going to be the fuel for the next month of Oprah shows. Teens are going to get repressed more, if that's even possible. Even though college people are adults, the teens will get screwed over again. Seems to be a good time to own stock in Smith & Wesson.

Diamondjimi
04-17-2007, 01:41 AM
This sickens me.:(

Nitro Express
04-17-2007, 01:58 AM
The sollution is to have a two year draft that pays for college. Then like Israel, the military people go into the reserve. In Israel IDF people pack heat all over; especially at universities.

Mr. Suicide would be dropped by an Uzi or Jerico pistol before he could do much if anything.

Thank goodness an off duty cop did such at a mall in SLC when a Bosnian gunman decided to go ape shit with a shotgun.

Why doesn't the United States have a civilian deffense force like Israel does? Do some background checks, psycological evaluation, training and let volunteers pack heat. Give special incentives to sign up. The police can't do it all.

DLRdelight!
04-17-2007, 02:34 AM
the saddest thing is that some sick person is one day going to make it their goal to kill more than 32.

sadaist
04-17-2007, 02:59 AM
Originally posted by madraoul
Seems to be a good time to own stock in Smith & Wesson.

Or just own a Smith & Wesson.

frets5150
04-17-2007, 03:09 AM
Did you ever notice when u see the brinks truck dropping off money at the bank?They have guns out to their side protecting the money?But when u go to these schools like my kids school there is a female guard there reading the paper not even Equipt with a Fuckin Blackjack wtf.


:mad:

sadaist
04-17-2007, 04:37 AM
Originally posted by frets5150
Did you ever notice when u see the brinks truck dropping off money at the bank?They have guns out to their side protecting the money?But when u go to these schools like my kids school there is a female guard there reading the paper not even Equipt with a Fuckin Blackjack wtf.


:mad:


The only things the guards were equipped with at my school were walkie talkies. So they could flank us on either side and bust us for smoking. The times they are a changin'.

frets5150
04-17-2007, 04:41 AM
Originally posted by sadaist
The only things the guards were equipped with at my school were walkie talkies. So they could flank us on either side and bust us for smoking. The times they are a changin'.


Yes they are.And also I noticed when I go to my kids school if the guard is on a piss break or something some little Hindu lady is behind the Security desk.WTF

Panamark
04-17-2007, 05:14 AM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine
World?

Name another country other than those we currently occupy where this takes place?


We live in a gun-crazy country, and it shows.

It hurts to think about it. :(


damn.

Australia 1996 :(

Google Martin Bryant. Killed 35, and wounded another 37 in one
outing. Totally indescriminate, Men, Women, Children, Infants...

Our Prime Minister effectively banned guns the following
day. We havent had a mass shooting since.

I remember that day, today really took me back
there. This is horrible. Ally nailed it, why not just
blow yourself away, why take out all the innocents ??

Peace to all the families of the victims, they are the
poor souls who are now condemned for life.

Nickdfresh
04-17-2007, 06:06 AM
So, how does a Shanghainese cunt on a visa get a gun anyways?

BigBadBrian
04-17-2007, 08:18 AM
The following is a partial list of victims killed by a gunman on the campus of Virginia Tech on April 16, 2007:

• Maxine Turner, Vienna, Va., Senior, Chemical Engineering

• Henry Lee, Roanoke, Va., Freshman, Computer Engineering

• Matt La Porte, Dumont, N.J., Freshman, University Studies

• Jamie Bishop, Instructor, Foreign Languages and Literatures (German)

• G.V. Loganathan, Professor, Civil and Environmental Engineering

• Juan Ortiz, Graduate Student, Civil Engineering

• Jarrett Lane, Narrows, Va., Senior, Civil Engineering

• Ryan Clark, Columbia County, Ga., Senior, Biology, English, Psychology

• Leslie Sherman, Sophomore, History and International Studies

• Caitlin Hammaren, Sophomore, International Studies and French

• Liviu Librescu, Professor, Engineering Science & Mechanics

• Kevin Granata, Professor, Engineering Science & Mechanics

• Reema Samaha, Centreville, Va., Freshman

• Emily Hilscher, Woodville, Va., Freshman, Animal and Poultry Sciences, Equine Science

VanHalener
04-17-2007, 08:33 AM
Finally, news this morning from our friends that their son is ok. He was taking a piano lesson in a building across the street from the engineering building when all this went down.

This is so sickening. I just wish there was something I could do...

scamper
04-17-2007, 09:13 AM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine
World?

Country, bro. Country. :(

Name another country other than those we currently occupy where this takes place?

Former Soviets, China perhaps? Central America?

Put it this way....

Who do we consider a friend or ally, or great nation for that matter, has this happen nearly as much as we do?

We live in a gun-crazy country, and it shows.

It hurts to think about it. :(


damn.


It's the guns fault....

VHdamaco
04-17-2007, 09:28 AM
i graduated with one of the girls who was shot, fortunatley she was shot in the hand and had surgery yesterday and is expected to make a full recovery...

i go to school 100 or so miles up the road from Tech (literally up the road, I-81 bisects JMU and goes straight into Tech), god only knows what the hell would've happened if someone started shooting here too...

I was driving back to school around the time after the shootings, and i was probably 200 miles away from tech when i saw two state boys (with a third not too far behind) hauling pure ass down I-81 trying to get down to Tech...

scary and very shitty situation all the way around though...

VanHalener
04-17-2007, 09:45 AM
A note on guns. I carry a loaded pistol every time I leave my home. In the last 12 years I have pulled it twice in defense of my own life, but my weapon was not fired in either situation. My weapon would have never left the holster and been seen had lives not been in peril. People make decisions, guns do not.

What brings it closer to home is that I just heard this human filth that shot everyone is from South Korea and lived in Fairfax County, (Centreville) my town.

sadaist
04-17-2007, 10:57 AM
Originally posted by vanhalener
People make decisions, guns do not.



If these psychos didn't have guns, they would just find some other means of killing. Blaming guns at least gives people a way to make sense out of something senseless.

VanHalener
04-17-2007, 11:07 AM
Originally posted by sadaist
Blaming guns at least gives people a way to make sense out of something senseless.



I repsect your opinion, but in my opinion that statement makes as much sense as what happened yesterday.

Hardrock69
04-17-2007, 11:43 AM
Originally posted by Keef
Huh?

What, are you one of those panty-waste motherfuckers that think serial killers should be allowed to kick back in a prison cell for the rest of their life at taxpayer expense?

I am not. If that cocksucker had not killed himself, I would be in favor of sentencing him to death by extremely slow torture.
:mad:

FORD
04-17-2007, 12:25 PM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
So, how does a Shanghainese cunt on a visa get a gun anyways?

When he turns out to be a Korean cunt legally in this country, who happens to be living in a state with very liberal gun laws.

(Welcome to Virginia, Nick)

1978 Fan
04-17-2007, 01:50 PM
WHEN are you Fuckers going to realize the failed use, and the inherent dandger of profesionally prescribed drugs to "treat" depression, that so many killers are taking, when they go out and do their deeds.

The killer had recently been prescribed some durg to treat drepression.

Thank God he wasn't prescribed marajuana for his depression, 'cause they would want to make that illegal. Ha Ha--- Do you even think that ANYONE will consider making the drepression drug illegal--- NO WAY !



WAKE UP PEOPLE ! ! ! ! PHARMECUETIAL CORPORATIONS ARE THE LARGEST AND MOST PERVASIVE 'PUSHER' OF DRUGS -- IN THE WORLD, AND THEY'RE "LEGAL" ! ! ! ! ! !

ELVIS
04-17-2007, 02:10 PM
Ban all durgs...


:elvis:

BigBadBrian
04-17-2007, 02:27 PM
Originally posted by FORD

(Welcome to Virginia, Nick)

Virginia is a great state.

PETE'S BROTHER
04-17-2007, 02:51 PM
the bullshit copycats at 5 schools today callin' in threats! god, it pisses me off, ENJOY life and let others do the same!

FORD
04-17-2007, 03:27 PM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Virginia is a great state.

...despite being the home of Ollie North, Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, the CIA, AOL, and yourself. :D

It's not the state that's the problem here, but the state laws (see my post in The Front Line for suggestions on how to handle this)

DavidLeeNatra
04-17-2007, 03:57 PM
Originally posted by ELVIS
Ban all durgs...


:elvis:

you want me banned??? :confused:

durg, calling from germany...outstanding...

Ally_Kat
04-17-2007, 05:15 PM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
So, how does a Shanghainese cunt on a visa get a gun anyways?

Reports now state that he was a resident from South Korea and that he bought the gun a month in advance. A very pre-mediated situation.

But, if someone on a visa wanted a gun, he could get it illegally.

Of which, anyone know why the seriel numbers on his guns were filed off? I didn't read anything about him getting them illegally.

sadaist
04-17-2007, 06:05 PM
Originally posted by DavidLeeNatra
you want me banned??? :confused:

durg, calling from germany...outstanding...

LMAO!

Fairwrning
04-17-2007, 06:19 PM
Say what you want about Virginia, but alot of brilliant minds were wasted yesterday by an individual that apparently had an extreme dislike for his classmates, teachers,etc..
I myself do not own a gun and never will. I do not like being in the presence of a gun.
But I dont think guns kill people. I can lay a loaded gun down on a table in room full of people and that gun is not going to kill anyone.

ELVIS
04-17-2007, 06:37 PM
Did anyone hear or see the services held today, led by the President ??

What's up whtn the Muslim minister (or whatever he is) leading the service and having people pray to Allah ??

Did they get on their knees ??

"People who have never met you are praying for you," Bush said. "They're praying for your friends who have fallen and who are injured. There's a power in these prayers, a real power. In times like this, we can find comfort in the grace and guidance of a loving God."
President Bush April 17, 2007

VanHalener
04-17-2007, 06:53 PM
Saw some of it Elvis, but not enough to answer your question about the knees. I did, however, catch some of the reports of bravery by students and teachers. One man, a lecturer at VT and a holocaust survivor, placed his body between the gunman and his kids in an attempt to save their lives. WHAT A GREAT MAN!!!!!!!
A true hero! Other heroes are coming into the light.

God bless them all and their families.

ELVIS
04-17-2007, 07:39 PM
Yeah, I heard about him too...A real hero...


So, my Army buds, friends and family, let me ask...

How does this event affect you ??

Or, does it bother you at all ??


:elvis:

ELVIS
04-17-2007, 07:45 PM
OOPS!

Double post...

Ally_Kat
04-17-2007, 07:57 PM
Originally posted by ELVIS


What's up whtn the Muslim minister (or whatever he is) leading the service and having people pray to Allah ??


Yahweh, God, and Allah are all names for the same diety. I've been in many Christian settings where God was called Allah. I believe it is Aramaic for Father.

Jews, Christians, and Muslims can essentially pray together with little issue as long as Jesus and/or Muhammad aren't mentioned or referenced.

Seshmeister
04-17-2007, 10:09 PM
Not to mention the magical flying pink teapot

Seshmeister
04-17-2007, 10:14 PM
Originally posted by vanhalener
Saw some of it Elvis, but not enough to answer your question about the knees. I did, however, catch some of the reports of bravery by students and teachers. One man, a lecturer at VT and a holocaust survivor, placed his body between the gunman and his kids in an attempt to save their lives. WHAT A GREAT MAN!!!!!!!
A true hero! Other heroes are coming into the light.

God bless them all and their families.

Sounds like the usual media bullshit spin to me.

I'm not cricising basic human instinct here but lets face it if even 2 or 3 students had been 'heroes' then the casualty figure would have been 1 or 2 rather than 30+.

It's just one guy with a couple of handguns...

Usual media crap where victims become heroes to make everyone feel better about the world.

Seshmeister
04-17-2007, 10:20 PM
Originally posted by Fairwrning
Say what you want about Virginia, but alot of brilliant minds were wasted yesterday by an individual that apparently had an extreme dislike for his classmates, teachers,etc..
I myself do not own a gun and never will. I do not like being in the presence of a gun.
But I dont think guns kill people. I can lay a loaded gun down on a table in room full of people and that gun is not going to kill anyone.

Yup it's time to give every country in the world nukes and see what happens. WMD's don't kill people, people kill people...

The proof that having no gun control is a bad thing is the US. It's that simple.

More people are killed in the US each year accidentally than defending themselves. The US has 20 or 30 times the gun death rates of any other civilised country.

It's a mental block you people have.

Seshmeister
04-17-2007, 10:29 PM
Originally posted by Panamark
Australia 1996 :(

Google Martin Bryant. Killed 35, and wounded another 37 in one
outing. Totally indescriminate, Men, Women, Children, Infants...

Our Prime Minister effectively banned guns the following
day. We havent had a mass shooting since.


Same here wiith Dunblane. We just banned all handguns for everyone.

Of course it might happen again in the UK or Australia but it's much much less likely.

America is nuts and that's up to them but the hand wringing and crying in their media is a bit hard to take. You make your choices.

If you think it makes you in some way more free having effectively no gun control then you get thousands of people killed each year with guns. Stop weeping about it.

Seshmeister
04-17-2007, 10:32 PM
Originally posted by Ally_Kat
True, but this time it was a 24-year-old from Shanghai here on a student visa.

Actually from South Korea and had lived in the US since he was 8 years old for what it's worth.

Seshmeister
04-17-2007, 10:35 PM
Originally posted by Viking
Interesting little tidbit from the Chicago Sun-Times.....

Authorities were investigating whether the gunman who killed 32 people on the Virginia Tech campus in the deadliest shooting rampage in U.S. history was a Chinese man who arrived in the United States last year on a student visa.


The 24-year-old man arrived in San Francisco on United Airlines on Aug. 7 on a visa issued in Shanghai, the source said. Investigators have not linked him to any terrorist groups, the source said.


Police believe three bomb threats on the campus last week may have been attempts by the man to test the campus’ security response, the source said.

http://www.suntimes.com/news/nation/343354,vatech041607.article

I wonder if they will print an apology...

sadaist
04-17-2007, 10:42 PM
Originally posted by Seshmeister
We just banned all handguns for everyone.


Except for the criminals.



Originally posted by Seshmeister

America is nuts and that's up to them but the hand wringing and crying in their media is a bit hard to take. You make your choices.



If you believe anyone other than the killer chose to have 32 innocent people wasted, go fuck yourself and then die slowly in a fiery car crash asshole.





Originally posted by Seshmeister


If you think it makes you in some way more free having effectively no gun control then you get thousands of people killed each year with guns. Stop weeping about it.

Drunk driving takes the lives of many more people than guns. Should we ban alcohol? Tried it, it didn't work. How about we ban automobiles? Horses aren't nearly as dangerous.

While we're at it, let's ban kitchen knives. Lord only knows how many people have been killed by those. Don't forget baseball bats, bicycle chains, rocks, and basically any blunt object that could smash someones head in.

BigBadBrian
04-17-2007, 10:44 PM
Originally posted by Seshmeister

It's a mental block you people have.

Kind of like you UK fellas with proper dental work, huh?

:cool: :D

Terry
04-17-2007, 11:12 PM
Just pisses me off that one suicidal douchebag after another decides to shoot a bunch of innocent people first before offing themselves.

Am hoping these fuckers, rapists and pedophiles have a special section of hell waiting for them.

Ally_Kat
04-17-2007, 11:30 PM
Originally posted by Seshmeister
Actually from South Korea and had lived in the US since he was 8 years old for what it's worth.

Yes, I know. At the time of the original post, it was reported heavily as a 24-year-old Shanghai male with a student visa. Hence this (http://www.rotharmy.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1153192#post1153192) updating post when I came back and saw no one else had updated the shooter profile.

Coyote
04-18-2007, 12:26 AM
Didn't VT have a "gun ban"?

How ironic of them to be slaughtered like that...:(

Nitro Express
04-18-2007, 12:54 AM
Yep Virginia banned guns from it's universities including those with conceiled carry permits.

I have a conceiled carry permit and I have also taught self-deffense classes. If you have a firearm for protection you must be willing to kill someone. No warning shots or using the weapon to intimidate. You must be willing to kill.

Most people aren't and this is the problem. With the increase of terrorism there has been some really neat breakthroughs on non-lethal weapons. CO2 machine guns that fire pellets full of burning chemicals or hot pepper powder. The police have had wonderful luck with this system and it was used in Salt Lake City to dispense a riot.

They also have shotgun loads that are non lethal and put people down with plenty of pain.

Even lethal weapons lack shocking power. People have been hit with 9mm rounds and have managed to kill the person who shot them and lived.

What's needed is shocking takedown power and it can be done non-lethaly.

What option this opens up is more people can carry such weapons to take out terrorists but the asshole at VT was a terrorist in my book.

People are more willing to use non-lethal weapons and if they will put down a dangerouse foe, then why not get them out in the hands of people because law enforcement can't be everywhere. Why not have a civilian deffense force trained to use some of these new none lethal weapons?

A nutcase can aways find a weapon. They can make pipe bombs and hell, lets make a flame thrower that can cook a whole classroom. It can be done. Nothing shocks me anymore. We live in a world full of lots of guns and a black market willing to sell them just like drugs.

We live in a day and age where law enforcement can't do it all. We need a civilian deffense force and we live in an age of new weapons that can take bad guys down hard without killing them. They just make them hurt like burning hell. Then we can have Abu Graib fun with the bastards.

ELVIS
04-18-2007, 02:02 AM
Originally posted by Ally_Kat
Yahweh, God, and Allah are all names for the same diety. I've been in many Christian settings where God was called Allah. I believe it is Aramaic for Father.

Jews, Christians, and Muslims can essentially pray together with little issue as long as Jesus and/or Muhammad aren't mentioned or referenced.


LMAO!

A Christian CANNOT pray without referencing or mentioning Jesus Christ, PERIOD !!!

And Yahweh (http://www.answering-islam.de/Main/Responses///Abualrub/allahs_identity.htm) is not Allah...


:elvis:

VanHalener
04-18-2007, 02:33 AM
Originally posted by Nitro Express
If you have a firearm for protection you must be willing to kill someone. No warning shots or using the weapon to intimidate.

Carrying a weapon for the purpose of self defense and for the defense of others means that the barer of arms is willing to kill in lawful self defense. It in NO WAY requires me to pull the trigger, let alone take a life when I am forced to defend myself or others with a firearm. My reactions are not entirely predetermined, as I hope yours are not. Preparedness and proficieny go hand in hand with self defense, along with an understanding of the law of the land.
The circumstances which force a person to defend one's life will dictate if someone dies, or is saved by the defusing power of the sight of a weapon ready to fire. It's all circumstantial. I am not going to kill a person who just pulled a knife on me, but I will pull my gun on that person, give warning if there is time, then fire on that person if he continues in his efforts to stab me. Fuck him, he tried to kill me with a knife. I will meet deadly force with deadly force and take a life if it saves my life or that of another innocent person from a violent criminal act.

There are no absolutes. Just be ready.


We should never have to worry about being ready for such things in our schools. :( God Bless Virginia Tech and her families.

frets5150
04-18-2007, 02:55 AM
Originally posted by vanhalener
Carrying a weapon for the purpose of self defense and for the defense of others means that the barer of arms is willing to kill in lawful self defense. It in NO WAY requires me to pull the trigger, let alone take a life when I am forced to defend myself or others with a firearm. My reactions are not entirely predetermined, as I hope yours are not. Preparedness and proficieny go hand in hand with self defense, along with an understanding of the law of the land.
The circumstances which force a person to defend one's life will dictate if someone dies, or is saved by the defusing power of the sight of a weapon ready to fire. It's all circumstantial. I am not going to kill a person who just pulled a knife on me, but I will pull my gun on that person, give warning if there is time, then fire on that person if he continues in his efforts to stab me. Fuck him, he tried to kill me with a knife. I will meet deadly force with deadly force and take a life if it saves my life or that of another innocent person from a violent criminal act.

There are no absolutes. Just be ready.
We should never have to worry about being ready for such things in our schools. :( God Bless Virginia Tech and her families.


Sorry if you pull it out you better use it no warning shots.He lunged at you and you pulled the trigger plain and simple.
;)

ELVIS
04-18-2007, 03:16 AM
He's comming right for ya !!!


Hmmm...;)



:elvis:

scamper
04-18-2007, 09:22 AM
Originally posted by Seshmeister
Yup it's time to give every country in the world nukes and see what happens. WMD's don't kill people, people kill people...

The proof that having no gun control is a bad thing is the US. It's that simple.

More people are killed in the US each year accidentally than defending themselves. The US has 20 or 30 times the gun death rates of any other civilised country.

It's a mental block you people have.

Yeah, we should be more like you. NOT

scamper
04-18-2007, 09:25 AM
Sesh, does have a point about our media whores. I can't believe how quick they got to VT and started grabbing students to interview, it's sickening.

Seshmeister
04-18-2007, 12:02 PM
Originally posted by Nitro Express
Yep Virginia banned guns from it's universities including those with conceiled carry permits.



I was talking to a guy from Virginia last year who said he was at a gun fair where they were selling a vehicle mounted M60.

VanHalener
04-18-2007, 12:43 PM
Originally posted by scamper
I can't believe how quick they got to VT and started grabbing students to interview, it's sickening.

The part I cannot stand is when the media is out of facts and the specualtion circus begins. They start asking the most ridiculous questions and fill "Gaps" in airtime with BS.

Ellyllions
04-18-2007, 12:47 PM
Shesh, we do have gun control laws. But we also have laws against illegal drugs, and illegal trade practices. Actually we have more laws on the books than any other country in the world.

And how does that work for our judicial system?

Ally_Kat
04-18-2007, 02:04 PM
Originally posted by ELVIS
LMAO!

A Christian CANNOT pray without referencing or mentioning Jesus Christ, PERIOD !!!

And Yahweh (http://www.answering-islam.de/Main/Responses///Abualrub/allahs_identity.htm) is not Allah...


:elvis:

Elvis, if Allah is not Yahweh, then who was Jesus praying to? Because He called God "Alaha", which over time with language changes turned into the present Arabic word for God "Allah". If you don't believe me, pick up a Bible that is translated into Arabic and tell me what name that use to refer to God.

Yahweh = Elohim = Jehovah = God = Deus = Dios = Alaha = Allah = whatever other language reference to God one can mention.

Don't let hatred blind you, Elvis. Judaism and Islam both view Jesus as a great rabbi/prophet of God. Christians go as far as saying that Jesus was the incarnation of God on Earth. Judaism and Islam go, "no, he's not, you silly gooses." Islam goes ahead then and says that Muhammad is the last prophet of God (prophet in the same vein as Abraham, Moses, etc). Judaism and Christianity goe, "no, he's not, you silly gooses." Fights break out, one side hates the other two, the other side tries to discredit the other, all sides hate each other. We're all apart of one huge dysfunctional religious family. It would be like you trying to say that Lutherans and Evangelicals each pray to different God.

And I pray without mentioning Jesus all the time. The majority of Christians believe in the trinity. If God = Jesus = Holy Spirit, why do I need to pray to God AND Jesus? It's a little redundant, and treating them as two different dieties is not within the monotheistic confines that Christianity is in. I accept that God came down in the form of Jesus and that thru the work that was done with His time here and because of such, I have a better opportunity to know Him. And I believe that God will come back thru Jesus, as Jesus has become the designated form of God that humans interact(ed) with. What happens on that other side, I don't know. No one knows. We all can only claim what we believe/have an idea about.

FORD
04-18-2007, 03:27 PM
Originally posted by sadaist


While we're at it, let's ban kitchen knives. Lord only knows how many people have been killed by those. Don't forget baseball bats, bicycle chains, rocks, and basically any blunt object that could smash someones head in.

Right......

If this crazy assed shithead had a knife or a baseball bat, he might have pulled off the first kill, the chick in the dormitory. Probably not the RA and definitely not 30 fucking people in the classrooms.

Single murders are always possible with other weapons. Mass killings are NOT, because you have to get up close and personal with any other weapon.

FORD
04-18-2007, 03:36 PM
Originally posted by ELVIS
LMAO!

A Christian CANNOT pray without referencing or mentioning Jesus Christ, PERIOD !!!

And Yahweh (http://www.answering-islam.de/Main/Responses///Abualrub/allahs_identity.htm) is not Allah...


:elvis:

"Allah" is merely the Arabic name for God. There are Arabic speaking Christians all over the Middle East who pray to the Father by that name.

Just as Abraham is called Ibrahim by many Muslims, "Allah" is a variation on the original Hebrew name "Elohim", which is the name used in the original Hebrew text of Genesis 1:1

You can make the weak argument that Muslims are praying to some "false" God, just as those who hate Mormons claim they pray to a "false" God and a "false" Christ. But as far as I know, there's only one Creator.

And I believe He's more concerned with how you live your life and treat others than He is with whether you call him God, Yahweh, Elohim, Allah, Jehova, Wakan Tanka, or Big Bearded Dude Who Lives In The Sky.

Nitro Express
04-18-2007, 03:58 PM
I say we kill all nerds. It's nerds who do these mass shootings, not the guys who looks like Satan covered in tattoos. It's the fucking nerds man. They are mad because they can't get laid and people make fun of them.

As far as nukes go, nerds invented them. Most of the worlds dangerouse weapons were invented by nerds.

So lets have a govt. program that kill nerd so we will be safe!

BigBadBrian
04-18-2007, 04:01 PM
Originally posted by Ally_Kat
The majority of Christians believe in the trinity.

ALL of the Christians believe in the Trinity, Ally. They are not Christians if they do not.

:cool:

BigBadBrian
04-18-2007, 04:02 PM
Originally posted by FORD

Single murders are always possible with other weapons. Mass killings are NOT, because you have to get up close and personal with any other weapon.

Except bombs, explosives, fire, etc., etc.

Ally_Kat
04-18-2007, 05:05 PM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
ALL of the Christians believe in the Trinity, Ally. They are not Christians if they do not.

:cool:

Um, no. There are Nontrinitarian groups that are Christian. Not as many that accept the trinity, but they do exist. The whole deal that makes a group Christian is that they believe Jesus was the Messiah, the Son of God. The Trinity wasn't a concept in early Christianity. It was created by the Catholics in Nicaea to explain how Christianity was monotheistic and not turing into another pagan religion. You know how we Catholics are. ;)

But because the Council of Nicaea happened looooooooooooooong after the establishment of Christianity, there were groups who did not accept this 3-in-1 view. There still are, today.

Coyote
04-18-2007, 05:09 PM
Originally posted by Nitro Express
I say we kill all nerds. It's nerds who do these mass shootings, not the guys who looks like Satan covered in tattoos. It's the fucking nerds man. They are mad because they can't get laid and people make fun of them.

As far as nukes go, nerds invented them. Most of the worlds dangerouse weapons were invented by nerds.

So lets have a govt. program that kill nerd so we will be safe!

Get 'em laid first. Take 'em to Vegas for a week, or something.

PETE'S BROTHER
04-18-2007, 05:16 PM
Va. Tech gunman sent material to NBC By MATT APUZZO, AP National Writer
2 minutes ago



BLACKSBURG, Va. - Between his first and second bursts of gunfire, the Virginia Tech gunman mailed a package to NBC News containing what authorities said were video, photos of himself brandishng weapons, and a rambling diatribe about getting even with rich people.

ADVERTISEMENT

"This may be a very new, critical component of this investigation. We're in the process right now of attempting to analyze and evaluate its worth," said Col. Steve Flaherty, superintendent of Virginia State Police. He gave no details on the material.

NBC said that a time stamp on the package indicated the material was mailed in the two-hour window between the first burst of gunfire in a high-rise dormitory and the second fusillade, at a classroom building.

The package included digital images of him holding weapons and a manifesto that "rants against rich people and warns that he wants to get even," according to a law enforcement official who spoke on the condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak about the case.

NBC said it immediately turned the package over to authorities on Wednesday. NBC would not disclose the contents beyond characterizing the material as "disturbing." The package was sent to NBC News head Steve Capus.

If the package was indeed mailed between the first attack and the second, that would help explain where Cho was and what he did during that two-hour window.

Ellyllions
04-18-2007, 05:21 PM
that's so fucking scary

VanHalener
04-18-2007, 05:25 PM
Unfreakin'believable.

There were so many warning signs from this shit bag. I so wish something would have stopped him:(

FORD
04-18-2007, 05:26 PM
So the guy sends a fucking video to NBC before he slaughters 30 people, and yet they claim they can't fucking identify him for a full 24 hours?

Or how about maybe someone alerting the cops that this fucking maniac was running around VT??

The more I hear about this thing, the more it smells.......

VanHalener
04-18-2007, 05:29 PM
Originally posted by FORD
The more I hear about this thing, the more it smells.......

yes it does :anger:

FORD
04-18-2007, 05:32 PM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Except bombs, explosives, fire, etc., etc.

Yeah, but those materials shouldn't be easy to buy either. True, anyone could make a molotov cocktail with gasoline and a glass bottle, but aside from that.......

Remember after the OKC thing when President Clinton wanted to introduce a system of "tagging" ammonium nitrate fertilizer as a method of tracking down any McVeigh-like terrorists in the future.

And the Republican Congress said NO.

Can't even blame that one on the NRA. Just fucking stupidity and partisan hatred.

VanHalener
04-18-2007, 05:35 PM
Originally posted by FORD
The more I hear about this thing, the more it smells.......

yes it does :anger:

As more truths come to light more fuckups are going to be evident.

This guy was a lot like the piece of shit that shot and killed two of our Fairfax County Police Officers about
one year ago: disturbed BIG TIME, and people knew it. Irony: both shooters lived in Centreville. Holy shit!

Fairwrning
04-18-2007, 05:42 PM
Originally posted by FORD
So the guy sends a fucking video to NBC before he slaughters 30 people, and yet they claim they can't fucking identify him for a full 24 hours?

Or how about maybe someone alerting the cops that this fucking maniac was running around VT??

The more I hear about this thing, the more it smells.......

The package was mailed between shootings..he did the 7:15 shooting..dissappeared for 2 hours and then reappeared in a different building..
Police investigated the original shooting and thought that was the end of it...
The biggest mistake Tech officials made was waiting 2 hours to send out emails to students..
The entire place should have been closed at 7:30 after the first killings.

Fairwrning
04-18-2007, 05:49 PM
Keeping the campus open after 2 people were shot was a huge mistake...particularly since they didnt catch the guy after the first incident...I dont understand how they could wait 2 hours to let students know what had happened earlier.

PETE'S BROTHER
04-18-2007, 05:49 PM
Originally posted by Fairwrning
The package was mailed between shootings..he did the 7:15 shooting..dissappeared for 2 hours and then reappeared in a different building..
Police investigated the original shooting and thought that was the end of it...
The biggest mistake Tech officials made was waiting 2 hours to send out emails to students..
The entire place should have been closed at 7:30 after the first killings.

nice ribbon!!

sadaist
04-18-2007, 06:32 PM
Originally posted by scamper
Sesh, does have a point about our media whores. I can't believe how quick they got to VT and started grabbing students to interview, it's sickening.

Yet we continue to watch.

sadaist
04-18-2007, 06:34 PM
Originally posted by vanhalener
I so wish something would have stopped him:(

Something I am positive we ALL agree on here.

chi-town324
04-18-2007, 06:41 PM
Originally posted by Fairwrning
Keeping the campus open after 2 people were shot was a huge mistake...particularly since they didnt catch the guy after the first incident...I dont understand how they could wait 2 hours to let students know what had happened earlier. yes thats unreal

Seshmeister
04-18-2007, 07:18 PM
There were over 42 000 deaths in the US last year caused by firearms.

That's over 115 a day so 32 extra one day really shouldn't get people excited.

Or maybe it's because most of the 32 weren't ******s?

Cheers!

:gulp:

Ellyllions
04-18-2007, 07:35 PM
From the clips I just saw on MSNBC the guy sounds paranoid schizophrenic. I have a hard time believing that St. Albans missed that.

I'm beginning to wonder if he was supposed to be on meds but wasn't taking them.

See, there's a problem with the gap between law enforcement's ability to be aware of mentally ill people.

Ally_Kat
04-18-2007, 07:40 PM
Originally posted by Seshmeister
There were over 42 000 deaths in the US last year caused by firearms.

That's over 115 a day so 32 extra one day really shouldn't get people excited.

Or maybe it's because most of the 32 weren't ******s?

Cheers!

:gulp:

Sometimes Sesh... *shakes head*


It's not the color, but the manner that strikes the nerve. I know living in NYC, that if I read about one robbery shooting, they're all about the same basic lines. You get numb to it. But this guy -- the tapes, the psycho-ness, it's on a different level. Who cares the color, creed, or nationality? Chaining the doors, execution style, sending tapes to the press -- this is sick and twisted.

Ellyllions
04-18-2007, 07:46 PM
Shesh, are you having to sleep in the wet spot again?

Seshmeister
04-18-2007, 08:12 PM
Alley I know I'm pushing buttons but I'm trying to seperate media from logic.

You read about people saying 'welll now we are fighting a war on terror we need to be armed'.

How many Americans exactly have been killed by terrorists since 9-11?

What are your chances as an American or anyone else of being killed by a terrorist?

It's all fucking nonsense.

It's media driven because it's a story.

Die in an interesting way or noone cares. I think you mentioned your journalism classes how stories become relevant.

Say tomorrow your folks die in a car crash, on the local news that may not be mentioned or maybe it comes after the story about a whale being beached and dying, to me that's kind of offensivw but understandable.

My problem is at the extremes where stupid shit affects government policy. I would even include 9-11 in that. I think at least 5 times as many people died in road accidents in NY in 2001 than in 9-11.

The reason for looking at gun control is not the 32 it's the 42 000.

Also the common argument is that if you outlaw guns then the only people that have guns are outlaws.

To me that's very much like saying if you criminalise rape then only criminals will be able to rape.

Aha you might say well that's not the same because good people with guns stop shit. The Texan argument.

The problem is that the stats don't back it up at all. There are more kids killed in firearm accidents than people who have defended themselves in their home from armed attackers.

The guy who kills the psycho coming to harm their family is spectacularly rare.

Say I get insanely angry in a blind rage with the SM because I find her in bed with the newspaper boy. Say I go insane I punch her in the face. In a gun culture I shoot her.

Scenario 2 I'm 18 and my gang has a problem with a rival gang. I know I'll get up the pecking order by doing something extreme so I stab some kid with a knife. 95% of the time they survive. In the US I shoot them.

That's a lot of what makes up the 7 times difference in murder rates.

That's the difference which is repeated again and again and why the US has the insane homocide rates.

Cheers!

:gulp:

Nitro Express
04-18-2007, 08:39 PM
I'm reading some of Cho's writings. Hell, they read like the script for Kill Bill. Hindsight is always 20/20 but before the shootings, heck, people probably would think it's the next Quentin Tarritino in the making.

VanHalener
04-18-2007, 08:56 PM
I love my airgun!


Scotland is working on their gun control. Like any other nation on Earth Scotland cannot control what is inside a person. The criminal adaptation makes me chuckle a bit. Crime is not funny. Airguns are funny.
Looks like if you go to Scotland you could get shot, robbed, or assaulted by an airgun, or an improvised (imitation/unidentified) weapon.

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2006/11/21091145/1


http://www.gun-control-network.org/GF04.htm

I am not taking a cheap shot at Scotland. I am Scottish by blood and I love my air rifle too.

sadaist
04-18-2007, 09:18 PM
Originally posted by Seshmeister
There were over 42 000 deaths in the US last year caused by firearms.

That's over 115 a day so 32 extra one day really shouldn't get people excited.

Or maybe it's because most of the 32 weren't ******s?

Cheers!



How many were criminals killed by police?
How many were accidental?
How many were gang related?
How many were self defense?
How many were suicide?
How many were "******s"?
And how many had as many warning signs and opportunities to stop as the VT shootings?

sadaist
04-18-2007, 09:21 PM
Originally posted by Seshmeister
Alley I know I'm pushing buttons but I'm trying to seperate media from logic.

You read about people saying 'welll now we are fighting a war on terror we need to be armed'.

How many Americans exactly have been killed by terrorists since 9-11?

What are your chances as an American or anyone else of being killed by a terrorist?

It's all fucking nonsense.

It's media driven because it's a story.

Die in an interesting way or noone cares. I think you mentioned your journalism classes how stories become relevant.

Say tomorrow your folks die in a car crash, on the local news that may not be mentioned or maybe it comes after the story about a whale being beached and dying, to me that's kind of offensivw but understandable.

My problem is at the extremes where stupid shit affects government policy. I would even include 9-11 in that. I think at least 5 times as many people died in road accidents in NY in 2001 than in 9-11.

The reason for looking at gun control is not the 32 it's the 42 000.

Also the common argument is that if you outlaw guns then the only people that have guns are outlaws.

To me that's very much like saying if you criminalise rape then only criminals will be able to rape.

Aha you might say well that's not the same because good people with guns stop shit. The Texan argument.

The problem is that the stats don't back it up at all. There are more kids killed in firearm accidents than people who have defended themselves in their home from armed attackers.

The guy who kills the psycho coming to harm their family is spectacularly rare.

Say I get insanely angry in a blind rage with the SM because I find her in bed with the newspaper boy. Say I go insane I punch her in the face. In a gun culture I shoot her.

Scenario 2 I'm 18 and my gang has a problem with a rival gang. I know I'll get up the pecking order by doing something extreme so I stab some kid with a knife. 95% of the time they survive. In the US I shoot them.

That's a lot of what makes up the 7 times difference in murder rates.

That's the difference which is repeated again and again and why the US has the insane homocide rates.

Cheers!

:gulp:


LOL. Spermmeister realizing his earlier post was idiotic & racist. Loungmachines "It was just to prove a point" mentality isn't gonna fly. Sorry dickhead. You can't try to rationalize what you said in your earlier post.

Fairwrning
04-18-2007, 09:42 PM
I must agree in that it is now time for all media to pack up their cameras and get out of Blacksburg...let the community heal itself...
I am sure everyone in this area truly appreciates the thoughts and prayers from the rest of the country..but we are getting to the point that is quickly becoming a media circus.
I have just seen the gun store owner interviewed for the umpteenth time and all the questions are the same.

Full Bug
04-18-2007, 10:12 PM
Originally posted by Fairwrning
Keeping the campus open after 2 people were shot was a huge mistake...particularly since they didnt catch the guy after the first incident...I dont understand how they could wait 2 hours to let students know what had happened earlier.
A newspapers point of view on this, thought I would throw it out there....

Virginia Tech officials blameless

We have every right to demand a lot of the police and all those we charge with protecting our lives and those of our children. But we cannot expect them to be psychics.

Hindsight is always 20/20. Based on hindsight, local police and Virginia Tech president Charles Steger should have locked down the university campus and warned students to take cover immediately after discovering two people shot to death inside a dorm Monday morning.

If they had, most if not all of the 30 other students who were gunned down two hours later at another campus building about a kilometre away might be alive today, along with the 23-year-old suspect, Cho Seung-Hui, who took his own life.

That's the key. Based on what we now know. It only becomes obvious after the fact. But on Monday morning, according to what we know, local police and Steger had no reason to believe the murder of two people in the university's West Ambler Johnston dorm was more than an isolated event.

As described on its website, Virginia Tech has a sprawling, 2,600-acre campus (10.5 sq. kms), 100 buildings, hundreds of research labs and its own airport. It also has 24,000 students and 6,000 staff.


Ordering a "lockdown" of such an institution on a busy Monday morning, immediately after the first two murders were discovered and just as students were arriving for classes, would have been difficult if not impossible to effect -- even if the authorities had known what was coming, which they didn't.

In the wake of such tragedies, it's natural to look for something simple to blame -- lax gun control laws, bullying, societal violence, bureaucratic incompetence. Sometimes, they may be relevant.

But we also need to use our good judgment and common sense, including the recognition that in free societies, it is almost impossible to stop a lone gunman with no apparent motive, who suddenly goes on a murderous rampage against strangers, before taking his own life.

The thousands of locals who gave university president Steger a standing ovation yesterday at a memorial service for the dead, despite criticism he didn't act fast enough, apparently understand this reality.

So should the rest of us.

scamper
04-18-2007, 10:17 PM
Originally posted by sadaist
Yet we continue to watch.

Not me

Fairwrning
04-18-2007, 10:40 PM
Finding 2 dead bodies..even if they considered it an isolated incident..they should have closed the campus immediately.
I am not saying this would have prevented the events that happened 2 hours later.But it would have made students more aware of what had happened..and perhaps saved some lives.

Ally_Kat
04-18-2007, 11:01 PM
Originally posted by Seshmeister
Alley I know I'm pushing buttons but I'm trying to seperate media from logic.

You read about people saying 'welll now we are fighting a war on terror we need to be armed'.

How many Americans exactly have been killed by terrorists since 9-11?

What are your chances as an American or anyone else of being killed by a terrorist?

It's all fucking nonsense.

It's media driven because it's a story.

I would like them to fix whatever happened that let intel slip thru the cracks. We've learned in the days since that the different agencies weren't communicating to one another. How all the DC bullshit affected this. Fixing that for the country's protection is War on terror enough for me.


Originally posted by Seshmeister

Die in an interesting way or noone cares. I think you mentioned your journalism classes how stories become relevant.

Say tomorrow your folks die in a car crash, on the local news that may not be mentioned or maybe it comes after the story about a whale being beached and dying, to me that's kind of offensivw but understandable.

Gun deaths and knife deaths get top billing here on local NYC newscasts. No matter how mundane. Unless something like a monster storm is happening. Then we have to have a reporter standing in the elements. That I never understood.


Originally posted by Seshmeister

My problem is at the extremes where stupid shit affects government policy. I would even include 9-11 in that. I think at least 5 times as many people died in road accidents in NY in 2001 than in 9-11.

The reason for looking at gun control is not the 32 it's the 42 000.

But hopefully, out of this with the attention it is gathering the 32 will wake some people up. We have this, we had the Amish school not too long ago. We need to track who has what. Knuckleboner had a great proposition that I think really would work.


Originally posted by Seshmeister


Say I get insanely angry in a blind rage with the SM because I find her in bed with the newspaper boy. Say I go insane I punch her in the face. In a gun culture I shoot her.


But, if you're in a blind rage, you could kill her with your own two hands. It's been done before. Either way, she'd be dead.

Ally_Kat
04-18-2007, 11:04 PM
Originally posted by Fairwrning
Finding 2 dead bodies..even if they considered it an isolated incident..they should have closed the campus immediately.
I am not saying this would have prevented the events that happened 2 hours later.But it would have made students more aware of what had happened..and perhaps saved some lives.

Cancelling classes would have helped. Altho, he could have went to the dorms.

It's hard to say what would have happened. Seems like he was hellbent on killing

smithcreww
04-18-2007, 11:05 PM
What is next? Is society in complete turmoil? Are we becoming numb to death?

scamper
04-18-2007, 11:29 PM
Originally posted by Seshmeister
That's the difference which is repeated again and again and why the US has the insane homocide rates.


It's pretty crazy over here, I recommend that nobody ever comes here again.

scamper
04-18-2007, 11:31 PM
Originally posted by Fairwrning
Finding 2 dead bodies..even if they considered it an isolated incident..they should have closed the campus immediately.
I am not saying this would have prevented the events that happened 2 hours later.But it would have made students more aware of what had happened..and perhaps saved some lives.

That would be like closing a small city, it's not that easy, and who's to say the nut wouldn't just start shooting people as they left.

Nitro Express
04-18-2007, 11:49 PM
Originally posted by vanhalener
I love my airgun!


Scotland is working on their gun control. Like any other nation on Earth Scotland cannot control what is inside a person. The criminal adaptation makes me chuckle a bit. Crime is not funny. Airguns are funny.
Looks like if you go to Scotland you could get shot, robbed, or assaulted by an airgun, or an improvised (imitation/unidentified) weapon.

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2006/11/21091145/1


http://www.gun-control-network.org/GF04.htm

I am not taking a cheap shot at Scotland. I am Scottish by blood and I love my air rifle too.

I remember seeing on the BBC that in parts of Britian, they want to make kitchen cutlery illegal. No shit. Because too many people had been stabbed by kitchen knives. Now I love my KAI carving knife. It's 30 layers of laminated stainless steel made just like a samuri sword. It's so sharp it cuts a turkey or prime rib like a lazer beam.

It sure would do a number on someone if used as a weapon. So would the new chain saw I just bought.

Nitro Express
04-18-2007, 11:53 PM
I was getting tired of hearing the whole Imus thing over and over but what a shitty story to replace that. Now I'm getting tired of hearing about the Asian fuck that went apeshit. I'm tired of all the talking heads and armchair psycological experts.

The more we show it on the news, the more we inspire the next copycat asshole. These guys just want to go down in a blaze of glory. Why shoot yourself alone. Let's get on the internation press for a few days by causing a massacre. What we are doing now is exactly what the dipshit wanted.

Nitro Express
04-18-2007, 11:57 PM
I'm tired of hearing all the mental illness excuses. What ever happened to evil? This dude wanted to hurt people and it was all precalculated. The pain the parents, brothers, sisters, aunts, friends, and nieghbors feel for the victims is exactly what this asshole wanted. The dude was evil. Plain and simple.

Nitro Express
04-19-2007, 12:03 AM
Shit. One of the Columbine kids was on medication when he shot the school up. Then they say his meds possibly might have made him more aggressive.

Psycology is not a 100% science. It's like marketing or finance. How many Wall Street analyst get it wrong? Most of them. How many new products fail? 93% This is with all the high powered technical market research being done. Market research is based on statistics and psycology.

Are we arrogant enough to think we really can get into someone's mind? People did say the guy needed help but of course nobody thought the dude was going to do what he did. They just wanted to get away from the nerd. These holier than thou analysts and newspeople wouldn't have given the guy the time of day either.

smithcreww
04-19-2007, 12:14 AM
still sad about the whole thing.

ELVIS
04-19-2007, 02:09 AM
Originally posted by Nitro Express
These guys just want to go down in a blaze of glory.


Glory...:confused:

DLRdelight!
04-19-2007, 02:51 AM
i agree that the school should have handled the situation a lot better. why was he able to deliver the package??? simple. because no one knew what had happened until 2 or more hours later. it was stupid to think that the suspect had fled the scene. i mean okay if it happened like in the street somewhere or in a persons house but when its a huge campus it should be common sense of the dangers that could come of not havin a person in custody.

Nitro Express
04-19-2007, 04:08 AM
Originally posted by ELVIS
Glory...:confused:

Glory in their own mind. Look at the dude in his pictures and tapes. He's dressed like a badass ready to do battle. He's right and everybody else is wrong and he's going to teach us peons a lesson.

Heck. It's much like radical Islam. I'm going to blow you infadels to hell so take this you non-believers while I go to paradise.

What's the difference? One is brainwashing brought upon a person by an organized group. One is brainwashing invented in a single person's mind. They guy was a narcisist living in his own world and his world and the real world didn't mesh well. He wanted power but couldn't achieve it therefore he hated successful people and happy people. He was jelouse.

If you read about Adolf Hitler. He was a simular loner but lucked out and got power. This guy would have been a dictator too if he he could have managed it.

It wasn't glory to us but in the lame fuck's mind, he was a brave warrior going out with media coverage up the ass. He got his fame. He wanted be known as Mr. Badass.

Nitro Express
04-19-2007, 04:14 AM
That being said, it took me a long time to get over my brother dying and he died of a heart attack.

I can't even imagine what it's like to lose a loved one over something like this. I feel pretty shitty about what happened as well. Sad, angry, wondering where we are headed as a society because the problem runs much deeper than weapons. People seem to snap more than ever.

Then everyone argues over it like 9/11. I'm so tired of it all.

Nitro Express
04-19-2007, 04:24 AM
Originally posted by DLRdelight!
i agree that the school should have handled the situation a lot better. why was he able to deliver the package??? simple. because no one knew what had happened until 2 or more hours later. it was stupid to think that the suspect had fled the scene. i mean okay if it happened like in the street somewhere or in a persons house but when its a huge campus it should be common sense of the dangers that could come of not havin a person in custody.

Yeah but it's not a perfect world and I've been to three Universities and all three were equally user unfriendly and incompetant. The situation got ate up by the fog of buerocracy. You know there is going to be lawsuits up the ass. The president of the university will be blamed because people will be looking for a scape goat. It's going to be an ugly legal and political mess. I don't envy anyone who gets caught up in it.

It's easy to sit here on the internet and make judgements and blame people.

BigBadBrian
04-19-2007, 06:39 AM
Originally posted by Ally_Kat
Um, no. There are Nontrinitarian groups that are Christian. Not as many that accept the trinity, but they do exist. The whole deal that makes a group Christian is that they believe Jesus was the Messiah, the Son of God. The Trinity wasn't a concept in early Christianity. It was created by the Catholics in Nicaea to explain how Christianity was monotheistic and not turing into another pagan religion. You know how we Catholics are. ;)

But because the Council of Nicaea happened looooooooooooooong after the establishment of Christianity, there were groups who did not accept this 3-in-1 view. There still are, today.

They are not Christians, period.

No, you're wrong about those silly catholics creating the trinity.

The trinity existed while Christ walked the Earth.

Read your bible (and not a catholic one).

:gulp:

Ellyllions
04-19-2007, 06:54 AM
One thing to interject, for those of you who've never been to Lynchburg/VA Tech and are commenting on how the authorities should've "shut the campus down".

I completely agree that there needs to be a better warning system, and the email 2 hours later is just a joke.

But, Lynchburg and VA Tech are the same. If you took out VA Tech, there would be no Lynchburg. The campus is 2,600 acres and it's not one singular plot of land. It's spread out intermingled with the town of Lynchburg. In other words, to give out an immediate warning and get immediate results is a tactical problem.

1978 Fan
04-19-2007, 09:56 AM
Originally posted by FORD
Right......

If this crazy assed shithead had a knife or a baseball bat, he might have pulled off the first kill, the chick in the dormitory. Probably not the RA and definitely not 30 fucking people in the classrooms.

Single murders are always possible with other weapons. Mass killings are NOT, because you have to get up close and personal with any other weapon.

How many were slaughtered in Rwanda with-out guns ?

Evil finds a way.

Pray to God to protect you from evil.

Psalm 91 is a good start.

1978 Fan
04-19-2007, 10:01 AM
Originally posted by Seshmeister
Sounds like the usual media bullshit spin to me.

I'm not cricising basic human instinct here but lets face it if even 2 or 3 students had been 'heroes' then the casualty figure would have been 1 or 2 rather than 30+.

It's just one guy with a couple of handguns...

Usual media crap where victims become heroes to make everyone feel better about the world.

Well, naybe, you, will get your chance somedsay, to show us all what heroism looks like!

Assuming you would know it if you saw it !!

1978 Fan
04-19-2007, 10:04 AM
Originally posted by Ellyllions
From the clips I just saw on MSNBC the guy sounds paranoid schizophrenic. I have a hard time believing that St. Albans missed that.

I'm beginning to wonder if he was supposed to be on meds but wasn't taking them.

See, there's a problem with the gap between law enforcement's ability to be aware of mentally ill people.

It would seem that our "institutions" at so many levels are failing where we need them the most.

1978 Fan
04-19-2007, 10:10 AM
Originally posted by Fairwrning
The package was mailed between shootings..he did the 7:15 shooting..dissappeared for 2 hours and then reappeared in a different building..
Police investigated the original shooting and thought that was the end of it...
The biggest mistake Tech officials made was waiting 2 hours to send out emails to students..
The entire place should have been closed at 7:30 after the first killings.

Here's what I'd like to know.......

With the killers face being splased all over all media for over a day, how did the US Postal clerk who took the Express Mail Package from Cho, not remember that, and report that to authorities ? ? ? ?

I understand the clerk gave information about the transaction, but ONLY after they were contacted . . . . .

WHO THE FUCK IS THIS POSTAL CLERK ? ? ? ?

? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

knuckleboner
04-19-2007, 10:35 AM
Originally posted by sadaist
LOL. Spermmeister realizing his earlier post was idiotic & racist. Loungmachines "It was just to prove a point" mentality isn't gonna fly. Sorry dickhead. You can't try to rationalize what you said in your earlier post.

i'm pretty sure it wasn't racist.

i believe he was making the point that when a white girl goes missing, it's a big national media story. lacy peterson. chandra levy. holloway in the bahamas. jonbennet. etc.

when a black, or hispanic girl goes missing, it's generally a much smaller media story.


sesh was saying that we have 42,000 gun deaths a year. yet these 32 were so big, in part because the vicitms were mostly white kids.

sesh was making a criticism of the media.



now, i'll have to disagree with him a little. this round of killing was the single largest shooting episode in U.S. history. had 32 people died at relatively nearby Howard University in DC (predominantly black school) it would've led to a fairly large amount of media coverage.

VHdamaco
04-19-2007, 10:58 AM
Being someone who has friends at tech this hit hard, come to find out one of my friends was among the injured i was pissed but thankful...

after reading this guys statements to NBC and reading transcripts of the tapes, obviously this guy was fucked in the head...

the more and more i read about this guy the more and more i get pissed and torn about this whole thing...

there are a few lines that get to me;

"You had a hundred billion chances and ways to have avoided today," - how could people have helped him if he was being anti social and a loner? even if people wanted to this fuckmook wouldn't let them...

"But you decided to spill my blood..." - they're not the ones that pulled the trigger, obviously a clear sign he was delusional and insane, but still, i can't fathom what we could've done to stop him before this happened...

his whole rant about the students having everything, shitty generalization because while a small to mid-small percent do have everything that daddy or mommy could give them, the majority of us don't and shouldn't have been grouped in like that (granted he was mentally fucked so he couldn't make that distinction); i actually take pride in the fact i wasn't given everything or cakewalked through anything and i know the meaning of hard work (quick aside, a big portion of our campus are Jersey girls, its funny at the beginning of each year to watch these new freshie Jersey girls pull up to a gas station and chill for 10-15 minutes waiting for an attendant because they don't know about the self-serve gas...)

anyways, it was obvious this guy was detached from the real world and thought that because he didn't have anything others should suffer; he wants to be a 21st century jesus and inspire the weak; referred to the columbine assholes as martyrs and so on...

these were a couple of posts earlier saying that someone should've recognized his writings as a clear sign for help and done something; some people, couldn't have made the distinction that he could've been disturbed and been a threat (i would be included in this category) and like i said before, i doubt that would've let anyone help him, because he was disturbed...

as for tech itself, there was no reason on earth that they should've left campus open, i'm fairly confident that JMU would've shut down immediatley after the first shooting; this could've given some of those kids a chance to get out of town (because that is exactly what i would've done, because i'm to much of a chicken shit to stay...) but then again, a) this may have taken it to more dorms and either minimized or increased the death toll and 2)they had no warning that this 2nd shooting was going to occur (having been to blacksburg a couple of times, you literally have to tell people flat out what your intentions are at times to get a response)...

long story short, this guy was fucked in the head and hell is too good a place for this guy...

sorry about my long rant, i wanted to get shit off my chest, if you understand it great, if you're like "what the hell is going on here" sorry, but i just woke up and i'm a mix of emotions still...

pc...

Ellyllions
04-19-2007, 11:37 AM
vhdamaco, you rant all you want...it's a horrible thing that's happened.

I'll tell ya what I can't believe...I can't believe all the photos and videos of this crazy bastard all over the place.

He got what he wanted before he died, and now we're giving him what he wanted after death. To be memorialized.

I wish to God that NBC had refused to air his shit to refuse his wishes. But that ratings war was just too hard to ignore.

Nitro Express
04-19-2007, 11:47 AM
Originally posted by Ellyllions
One thing to interject, for those of you who've never been to Lynchburg/VA Tech and are commenting on how the authorities should've "shut the campus down".

I completely agree that there needs to be a better warning system, and the email 2 hours later is just a joke.

But, Lynchburg and VA Tech are the same. If you took out VA Tech, there would be no Lynchburg. The campus is 2,600 acres and it's not one singular plot of land. It's spread out intermingled with the town of Lynchburg. In other words, to give out an immediate warning and get immediate results is a tactical problem.

I went to the University of Washington in Seattle and I thought that was a big school. Virginia Tech is a city in itself. From what I've seen on the news, it looks like a beautiful campus with old style buildings.

I've just worked in enough beurocracies to know none of them do anything efficiently. Especially, when it's a suprise situation. Rudy Guliani said NYC functioned well during the 9/11 attacks because there were so many competant people at the ground level.

On D-day the whole plan went to pot. It was soldiers at the sargeant and private level that improvised. They knew what the goal was and made it happen.

Look at New Orleans during Katrina. Sure we can blame the beurocracy but when the shit is hitting the fan in real time, beurocracies don't work well. That's why my sollution is a civilian deffense force in times of terror. The police can't do it all.

If one of the proffessors or campus employs had some training and a weapon, the situation could have ended before so many people got hurt. In Salt Lake City a off duty police officer ended a shooting spree in a mall where the shooter had a shotgun and a backpack of ammunition!

The world has changed and our schools seem to be where a lot of this crap takes place. Waiting for the police is too late.

sadaist
04-19-2007, 11:47 AM
Originally posted by Seshmeister
Or maybe it's because most of the 32 weren't ******s?



Originally posted by knuckleboner
i'm pretty sure it wasn't racist.

sesh was making a criticism of the media.




He couldn't make a criticism of the media using the term African American, black, colored?

VHdamaco
04-19-2007, 11:51 AM
its sad that even in the wake of tragedy that there are some bastards looking to line their pockets in some way shape or form...

they deserve a similar fate that this bastard will for exploiting the people of blacksburg and the victims...

Ellyllions
04-19-2007, 11:55 AM
Originally posted by Nitro Express
I went to the University of Washington in Seattle and I thought that was a big school. Virginia Tech is a city in itself. From what I've seen on the news, it looks like a beautiful campus with old style buildings.

I've just worked in enough beurocracies to know none of them do anything efficiently. Especially, when it's a suprise situation. Rudy Guliani said NYC functioned well during the 9/11 attacks because there were so many competant people at the ground level.

On D-day the whole plan went to pot. It was soldiers at the sargeant and private level that improvised. They knew what the goal was and made it happen.

Look at New Orleans during Katrina. Sure we can blame the beurocracy but when the shit is hitting the fan in real time, beurocracies don't work well. That's why my sollution is a civilian deffense force in times of terror. The police can't do it all.

If one of the proffessors or campus employs had some training and a weapon, the situation could have ended before so many people got hurt. In Salt Lake City a off duty police officer ended a shooting spree in a mall where the shooter had a shotgun and a backpack of ammunition!

The world has changed and our schools seem to be where a lot of this crap takes place. Waiting for the police is too late.

Oh I agree.
And I can't help but wonder if we're robbing our children of survival skills in the way we're raising them.

Nitro Express
04-19-2007, 12:02 PM
I've been shot at twice. Once when me and a friend were walking into the parking lot at work and some asshole with a pistols was shooting into our parking lot. We dove behind a car unarmed and waited for the police to arrive hoping he didn't come our way.

The second time was while hunting. Some kids in back of a pickups truck were spraying bullets all over from 22 rifles. We dropped into a ravine and we could hear the bullets zinging above us. I had a 8mm Mauser bolt action. I didn't know if these kids were dangerouse or not. I just went to where it was safe and if they did come over to start trouble.

When bullets are zinging around you, the natural instinct is to take cover and not turn into some martial arts expert who sneaks up to the gunman and breaks his neck. I imagine it's plenty of fun in a crowded educational building where everyone is in a panic.

Sure the students could have rushed the guy and took him out but who wants to be the kamakazi and how do you organize it in real time? Everyone has adrenaline pumping and they are in the natural flight mode.

Ellyllions
04-19-2007, 12:04 PM
you're right...

I gotta stop watching the news.

Nitro Express
04-19-2007, 12:12 PM
I was an Eagle Scout and people laugh at that but I look back at the process of getting all those merrit badges and the Eagle Project which is huge and I wouldn't trade it for the world.

I have survival skills because of it.

The problem today is both parents tend to work and theres no parent at home. The Columbine kids were building an aresenal and the parents were obliviouse to it. I tried to build a still when I was a kid and got busted. LOL!

Parents farm their kids off to video games and the television to occupy their time. Much of the stuff fills children with a false sense of security and desensatizes them to violence.

There is very little building stuff out of nothing. I made a complicated model airplane when I was 9 years old. It took me sevral months and I had to cut all the pieces out of balsa wood. Kids nowadays would throw the thing away because it's too complicated and too hard.

There's an entittlement addiciton. Everyone wants the govt. to pay for everything and do everything for us.

Nitro Express
04-19-2007, 12:16 PM
I went cold when I found out a kid at my children's school has watched all the Saw movies. He's 8 years old! The parents are probably too stoned to care.

What is he going to grow up as?

We have millions of these kids that are being rased by neglect, abuse, and sick shit in the media they are exposed to.

We glorify violence in our entertainment then act shocked and amazed that someone does something that we see in the movies all the time.

Cho was in Full Metal Jacket and other movies. Look at the way he acts in his videos. The dude is Mr. Hollywood but his gun is real and the bullets kill.

Nitro Express
04-19-2007, 12:19 PM
For the record. David Lee Roth was a Boy Scout and he's proud of it. He mentioned this on his radio show when he was on the air.

Nitro Express
04-19-2007, 12:24 PM
I was raised in a real strict Christian religion and tottaly rebbeled from it. I almost became an athiest.

When I see shit like this go down I get religiouse again. Why? There has to be justice. I wold like to think the people killed are in a better place and Cho is being tortured in hell by the devil and his demons.

When Jesus said, Give your grief to me and let me be the judge, in times like this, Jesus is selling a good product.

VHdamaco
04-19-2007, 12:25 PM
Originally posted by Nitro Express

Parents farm their kids off to video games and the television to occupy their time. Much of the stuff fills children with a false sense of security and desensatizes them to violence.

Everyone wants the govt. to pay for everything and do everything for us.

I was a full on nintendo and TV kid, but then again, i never had games like Resident Evil growing up. I could get away with watching a lot of stuff on tv (aside from skinemax) or playing certain games growing up because my parents made sure that a) i'd have equal time away from the games/tv and be outside playing and 2) that what i saw or did (in the games) was in no way how i should act in the real world. I guess you could say that im "desensitized" to violence, but only in video games. I still wouldn't condone anything beyond self-defense in the real world and am "squeemish" i guess you'd say, to extreme violence in any other medium (which a desesitized person wouldn't be)...

but i guess my brothers and i are the exceptions and not hte rules becuase we have no interest in killing or shooting anyone...

you want to talk about games and tv causing kids to be desensitized to violence, go to rotten.com, or steakandcheese.com or any site like that; they show you what real acts of violence can do to people, that would desensitize kids more so than games and tv, because its real...

also, i learned long ago that the government isn't going to give me shit and i need to earn what i need, when that time comes i'm going to pass that along to my children and hopefully so on and so forth...

Ally_Kat
04-19-2007, 02:29 PM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
They are not Christians, period.

No, you're wrong about those silly catholics creating the trinity.

The trinity existed while Christ walked the Earth.

Read your bible (and not a catholic one).

:gulp:

The Trinity did not exist while Jesus was hanging around. It was a term coined after His death. The word "trinity" never appears in the Bible, unless the translation you're using interjected it (like I've seen in some versions the the KJV). What is in the Bible are these three people who can be called God without causing blasphemy. That's why you have early sects of Christianity who didn't agree with what early theologians were piecing together with the vague information they were gathering by stuying Scripture. You have a lot of bits and pieces that support the idea of a Trinity, but you don't have God or Jesus going, "hey guys, look. This is how it is."


Trinity explained here (http://www.religionfacts.com/christianity/beliefs/trinity.htm)
and here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity)
and the Bible quote I know you're going to bring up (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comma_Johanneum)


FYI: The only major difference between a "Catholic Bible" and a "Protestant Bible" is the Old Testament. Catholics kept the old school Jewish collection and Protestants updated to the new school Jewish collection. The New Testaments are identical. I have a whole collection of translations. Mainly I use my NIV because it can take the wear and tear of usage. I haven't read a "Catholic one" in ages, except for the excerpts read in Mass.

Come on, Brian. I know you like to push buttons, but you know I know my shit. You've been in religious threads where I've explained my mixed religious study. I'm not just some blind follower taught by denomination (or all by believers in God for that matter).

Ally_Kat
04-19-2007, 02:33 PM
Originally posted by Nitro Express
I went cold when I found out a kid at my children's school has watched all the Saw movies. He's 8 years old! The parents are probably too stoned to care.



How about teaching a 7-year-old boy who considers Scarface the coolest film ever made?

I mean, I got away watching some stuff that wasn't appropriate for my age level, but my parents were strict on how I behaved and treated others. Of what I've seen, most parents don't discipline. There's no accountability or consequence anymore.

scamper
04-19-2007, 03:04 PM
Originally posted by Ally_Kat
Of what I've seen, most parents don't discipline. There's no accountability or consequence anymore.

That's a pretty broad brush, in my neighborhood I only know of one family where the kids run wild. The rest of the parents enforce rules, but maybe our community is a minority.

sadaist
04-19-2007, 04:52 PM
Originally posted by Nitro Express
For the record. David Lee Roth was a Boy Scout and he's proud of it. He mentioned this on his radio show when he was on the air.

He also is a gun owner.

VHdamaco
04-19-2007, 05:02 PM
i've always joked about how i can't wait ot have kids so i can beat the hell out of them for the fact i had my ass tanned a few times when i was but a wee one...

now seeing what this world is coming too, i see the need as a 20 year old to make sure that my kids (whenever they may come) know whats what and are disciplined (but by no means military school/private school style, i can't stand those fuckers)...

Nitro Express
04-19-2007, 05:43 PM
Originally posted by sadaist
He also is a gun owner.

So is Eddie Van Halen. Vallerie Bertinelli once said she refused Eddie having guns in the house so he kept them locked up at 5150. He showed his collection to one guitar magazine interviewer and he said it was a whole room full of variouse types of guns. Ed was particularly proud of an Uzi.

knuckleboner
04-19-2007, 06:03 PM
Originally posted by sadaist
He couldn't make a criticism of the media using the term African American, black, colored?

i'm sure he could've. but he appeared to be trying to make the point by sarcastically taking the media's angle.

it's a bit harsher than the knuckleboner would've probably used. but i don't think it's racist.


however, at THIS point, i think unless i get on the sesh payroll, i'll probably step down as the shpokesperson. ;)

Fairwrning
04-19-2007, 06:50 PM
NBC is really going into damage control mode. Releasing those pics and videos from the shooter is biting them in the ass here in Virginia.
"We felt obligated to release the information that fell into our laps":rolleyes:
The company I work for does alot of work at Tech. I attend as many football and baseball games as I can. Yes..Tech is a huge campus..but there is just no reason to have kids sitting in classrooms 2 hours after killings..they actually had a Radford student(1st victim's boyfriend) being taken into custody when the 2nd shootings started.
Their is just no reason not to send the students back to their dorms( or SOMPELACE else) as soon as they came to their classes that morning.
Hindsight is indeed 20/20..but there is also a little something called common sense that should have kicked in.
Suppose the kid they originally were questioning did turn out to be the shooter.What would have been wrong with still shutting down the campus for the day?

Fairwrning
04-19-2007, 06:53 PM
If the shootings were 30 minutes apart..then I could understand not having enough time to react...but this wacko took 2 hours in between.

FORD
04-19-2007, 08:06 PM
Apparently there was another attempted copy cat at a school in Federal Way WA today. Nobody hurt, but a stupid kid was found with 3 guns on him.

Two huge ironies in this story:

1) The guns (6 were stolen in total) were stolen from the residence of a Washington State Patrolman!! If a cop can't secure his own fucking weapons, they should fire his ass.

2) The school in question? "Todd Beamer High School". Yep. A high school named after a BCE fictional character from the fairy tale of Flight 93. What irony.

Fairwrning
04-19-2007, 08:28 PM
The sad thing,Ford....this is just the beginning of that kinda shit.

Nitro Express
04-19-2007, 09:07 PM
Originally posted by Fairwrning
The sad thing,Ford....this is just the beginning of that kinda shit.

Not really. There was the University of Texas shootings in the 1960's.

What we are seeing is more of this kind of thing probably because of more broken homes, more abuse, more violence in the media, violent video games, no parent at home when the kid comes home from school, shitty parenting.

We have some disturbed kids. Cutting is at epidemic perportions now. Kids actually cut themselves to relieve them of the mental pain they have.

Where I grew up every kid I knew had a mom at home after school. We had to do our homework and what we watched and did was regulated by mom and dad. We also carried pocket knives to school and every kid I knew had a 22 rifle that they probably got for Christmas. We never had any problems. Rifles and shotguns hung on the wall. The ammunition was stored somewhere else. I never thought about even messing with the guns on the wall. My dad would have killed me.

What has changed is there is rampant lack of respect for authority. Major levels of psycological pain and grief. No discipline. Why? Mom and dad love money more than their children or their marriage.

FORD
04-19-2007, 09:07 PM
Originally posted by Fairwrning
The sad thing,Ford....this is just the beginning of that kinda shit.

Yeah, but this one in particular was very preventable.

How the fuck can a COP be so stupid as to leave 6 guns laying around his house. Geezus, who should set a better example for gun safety than someone who's paid to wear one in the name of public safety??

And the kid they busted in the school only had three of the 6 guns. Which means three are still out there. And tomorrow's the Columbine anniversary, which means a whole different copycat mentality might be present.

Tragedies like Columbine and Virginia are bad enough in and of themselves, but when they're born out of total irresponsibility, as this near miss was, that's just inexcuseable.

Seshmeister
04-19-2007, 09:21 PM
Originally posted by knuckleboner
i'm pretty sure it wasn't racist.

i believe he was making the point that when a white girl goes missing, it's a big national media story. lacy peterson. chandra levy. holloway in the bahamas. jonbennet. etc.

when a black, or hispanic girl goes missing, it's generally a much smaller media story.


sesh was saying that we have 42,000 gun deaths a year. yet these 32 were so big, in part because the vicitms were mostly white kids.

sesh was making a criticism of the media.



now, i'll have to disagree with him a little. this round of killing was the single largest shooting episode in U.S. history. had 32 people died at relatively nearby Howard University in DC (predominantly black school) it would've led to a fairly large amount of media coverage.


Thank you.

Nitro Express
04-19-2007, 09:22 PM
Originally posted by Fairwrning
NBC is really going into damage control mode. Releasing those pics and videos from the shooter is biting them in the ass here in Virginia.
"We felt obligated to release the information that fell into our laps":rolleyes:
The company I work for does alot of work at Tech. I attend as many football and baseball games as I can. Yes..Tech is a huge campus..but there is just no reason to have kids sitting in classrooms 2 hours after killings..they actually had a Radford student(1st victim's boyfriend) being taken into custody when the 2nd shootings started.
Their is just no reason not to send the students back to their dorms( or SOMPELACE else) as soon as they came to their classes that morning.
Hindsight is indeed 20/20..but there is also a little something called common sense that should have kicked in.
Suppose the kid they originally were questioning did turn out to be the shooter.What would have been wrong with still shutting down the campus for the day?

Fuck NBC on that one. They should have turned the material over to the FBI. They did exactly what Cho wanted them to do and now the psycopath got his television time. It does the average citizen no good and becomes masturbation material for the next grop of copycat psycopaths.

Nitro Express
04-19-2007, 09:26 PM
The only people who will win in the whole mess is the lawyers. How many lawsuits is this fiasco going to generate? Those vulchurs are circling in as we speak.

Nitro Express
04-19-2007, 09:28 PM
You have morticians then above them you have lawyers, then above them you have television news producers.

Seshmeister
04-19-2007, 09:34 PM
Originally posted by sadaist
He couldn't make a criticism of the media using the term African American, black, colored?

No.

Because that would be BS.

That would be pussy footing around the fucking issue. The internet is the one place where you can say it as it is. Tha'ts exactly why I used the word. l used the ****** word because to me that's the fucking whole problem.

Actually I find the word colored far more offensive than ****** but maybe that's just me.

Cheers!

:gulp:

Seshmeister
04-19-2007, 09:47 PM
Originally posted by sadaist
He also is a gun owner.

And he's wrong.

Not that his views on any issue would influence any right thinking person because you like his music but whatever...

His politics seem to be liberal but on the right as regards gun control.

He gave two examples.

One whereby someone tried to kidnap his Dad and he used martial arts to get out of the situation and the guy was later killed by the cops. The second was where some stoned guy staggered into his yard and he scared him with a shotgun.

Rotha's argument for guns doesn't hold up in either case.

In both cases the law enforcement people did or could have sorted out the problem.

Cheers!

:gulp:

DLRdelight!
04-20-2007, 02:32 AM
its true today there are many broken homes where the parents are not there to discipline their children and teach them well. many parents dont even really know their kids that well. its sad that kids are exposed to horrific movies that they shoul not watch but are allowed to by their parents or the lack of their parents being there. but i think no matter what these kind of things will keep on happening

scamper
04-20-2007, 09:23 AM
Originally posted by Nitro Express
What we are seeing is more of this kind of thing probably because of more broken homes, more abuse, more violence in the media, violent video games, no parent at home when the kid comes home from school, shitty parenting.

You're right we should feel sorry for the poor little victim of society that killed 31 people. FUCK THAT, these people know right from wrong I don't care where they came from.

scamper
04-20-2007, 09:25 AM
Originally posted by Seshmeister
And he's wrong.

Your opinion, my opinion is your wrong. It's a tie.

VanHalener
04-20-2007, 09:50 AM
:cato2: :daisy: :cato2:

DAYTONA BEACH, Fla. (AP) -- NASCAR will allow race cars to display the Virginia Tech logo for the next three weeks in tribute to the victims of this week's shootings at the school.

The logo will be displayed against a black background on the area just to the right of the driver's side window net on cars in both the Nextel Cup and Busch series.

The display can be seen at Phoenix International Raceway on Friday and Saturday, Talladega Superspeedway (April 28-29) and Richmond International Raceway (May 4-5).

Also, entries in the Craftsman Truck Series event April 28 at Kansas Speedway will display the logo.

VanHalener
04-20-2007, 09:54 AM
:cato2: :daisy: :cato2:

'Hokie Hope' day is today

The traditionally black and gold University of Iowa campus likely will be maroon and orange today.

College campuses across the U.S. will be showing support for Virginia Tech University by wearing the school's colors today. Virginia Tech is recovering from the worst mass shooting in U.S. history on Monday, a tragedy that left 33 people dead, including the shooter.

The Virginia Tech Web site calls today "Hokie Hope," and there is a Virginia Tech alumni-led declaration of today as national Orange and Maroon Effect Day.

"We continue to mourn the loss of life and stand in solidarity with the Virginia Tech campus, the Blacksburg community and all those affected by the horrifying events," UI interim President Gary Fethke said in a news release, in which he encouraged Hawkeyes to wear orange and maroon.

In addition, Iowa Gov. Chet Culver officially declared today as a day of mourning.

Many students are doing their part to remember as well. The popular online student forum Facebook is serving as a rallying point for grieving Hawkeyes.

A Facebook group called "Hawkeyes Praying for Va Tech" has drawn 1,245 members, and the number is growing. Many students nationally are changing their profile picture to a picture of a black ribbon with the Virginia Tech logo over it.

Marc Schultz, 19, a UI freshman, joined the Hawkeye-VT group, changed his profile picture and also is trying to raise awareness for Orange and Maroon Effect Day by posting messages on different groups' Web pages.

"This is for awareness," Schultz said of the maroon and orange day. "I guess it will make people realize Iowa City isn't a bubble. One action in one campus can affect the whole country."

The UI campus shares a common bond with Virginia Tech: Fifteen years ago Gang Lu, a graduate physics student at UI, went on a rampage, killing four people in Van Allen Hall and two people in Jessup Hall, including himself.

"We're trying to get people to show unity. A lot of people think it is so distant, but since it happened here in 1991, (Monday's shooting) could have happened anywhere," Schultz said.

Schultz said there also is a memorial at 9:45 a.m. Monday where people are being asked to take a moment of silence to pray for the Virginia Tech victims.

"It's in my mind. (The tragedy) is still constantly there," Schultz said.

Also, there will be a memorial service at noon Monday on the Pentacrest, and the UI Association of Latinos Moving Ahead is organizing a "Hawkeye Hokie Remembrance" at 8 p.m. Monday at Iowa Avenue and Clinton Street. Meanwhile, the flag atop the Old Capitol will remain at half staff until Sunday.

VanHalener
04-20-2007, 09:57 AM
News Tribune news services

Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick has teamed up with the United Way to donate $10,000 to assist families affected by the massacre at Virginia Tech, his former school.
“When tragic things like this happen, families have enough to deal with, and if I can help in some small way, that’s the least I can do,” said Vick, who played for the Hokies before being drafted No. 1 overall by the Falcons in 2001.

The Vick Foundation is collecting donations from local communities in both Atlanta and Virginia that will be placed in the United In Caring Fund for Victims of the VA Tech Tragedy and the special fund at the United Way of Montgomery, Radford and Floyd counties, which serves the Virginia Tech area.

Vick’s foundation said the money will be used to provide help with funeral expenses, transportation for family members and other support services.

Elsewhere

The 2006 MLS champion Houston Dynamo will wear uniforms with Virginia Tech’s school colors in an April 29 game as a tribute to those who died in Monday’s shootings. The maroon jerseys will then be auctioned off, and the funds will be donated to the school’s Hokie Spirit Memorial Fund. …

:cato2:

VanHalener
04-20-2007, 10:03 AM
CLEMSON, S.C. - Baseball teams from Clemson and Virginia will honor the 32 victims killed Monday at Virginia Tech during a three-game series this weekend at Doug Kingsmore Stadium.
Virginia Tech, like Clemson and Virginia, competes in the Atlantic Coast Conference.
Players from both teams will wear Virginia Tech T-shirts during batting practice. Before Friday’s series opener, a ceremony to remember those killed or injured will take place.
After an invocation and the national anthem, the Virginia Tech fight song will be played. An alum from Virginia Tech will throw out the ceremonial first pitch each game.
There will be a Virginia Tech logo on the field behind home plate and a Virginia Tech flag on the outfield flagpole.
Any Virginia Tech alumni who wish to attend will receive free admission to the three-game series, according to Clemson’s athletic department.
This fall, Clemson plans to honor the Virginia Tech victims again when the Hokies football team comes to Memorial Stadium on Oct. 6. The game was previously announced as Military Appreciation Day. Officials from Clemson will meet with counterparts from Virginia Tech to discuss how best to honor those killed or hurt in this week’s massacre on the Blacksburg, Va., campus.

:cato2:

BigBadBrian
04-21-2007, 08:59 AM
Yesterday was a rather disturbing day. My wife and I were driving along when we came upon this accident scene just as the paramedics were giving this guy CPR. Nothing like this to jerk you back to reality :(

Va. Tech freshman dies after fiery crash in Virginia Beach
By STEVE STONE, The Virginian-Pilot
© April 21, 2007 | Last updated 10:34 PM Apr. 20

VIRGINIA BEACH - A Virginia Tech freshman who recently had returned to Chesapeake died Friday despite the efforts of people who pulled him from a burning car.

Margie Long, a police spokeswoman, identified the victim as Jeff Nielsen Santo Domingo Soriano of the 1700 block of Hayward Ave. in Chesapeake.

He was flown to the trauma center at Sentara Norfolk General Hospital but died shortly after 6 p.m., Long said.

In his profile posted on MySpace, Soriano said he was a 2006 graduate of Indian River High School. At Tech, he wrote, he was majoring in engineering with a minor in math.

Within hours of the wreck, friends were posting hopeful notes on his page, wishing that he would soon be well.

The single-vehicle wreck occurred about 2:30 p.m. in the 6000 block of Providence Road.

Soriano was driving westbound toward Indian River Road when his vehicle flipped several times and struck a tree before coming to a rest, Long said.

Rob Waring, 52, heard the crash from inside the GSH Real Estate office he manages.

"There was a little slide noise and then a big bang," Waring said. "I just acted on instinct."

He found Soriano unconscious inside.

Others had stopped to help, among them a relative of the student's who had been in another car.

Together, they tried to pull open the driver- side door.

"The door wouldn't open, and the car was starting to burn," Waring said.

"We got the passenger door open after a minute, but the flames were starting to get pretty obnoxious," Waring said.

A man arrived with a mat that he used to try and pound out the flames coming from the trunk and the rear wheel well, near the gas tank.

"I asked him to just leave it in place for a minute so we had some shield," Waring said. With that, "we got a hold on the kid's wrist and hauled him out and across the street."

Seconds later, "the car really took to burning," he said.

As police and paramedics arrived, Waring started talking to the driver's relative.

"That's when I found out he was a Tech undergrad who had just gotten home, so that sort of brought this terrible week into focus for me," said Waring, who attended Tech in the 1970s.

This week, he has shared the pain of all Hokies, he said. And he had hoped that the rescue effort would pay off with a happy ending.

"You give it your best shot and hope for the best," he said. In such a grim week, "it would have been a nice victory."
Link (http://content.hamptonroads.com/story.cfm?story=123299&ran=96525)

The_KiD
04-21-2007, 11:33 AM
I spent the day on the Golf Course yesterday and it was pretty cool seeing everyone wearing Hokie colors in honor of the victims from the shooting.. Truly sadening.

KiD

VanHalener
06-05-2007, 11:49 AM
http://www.nbc4.com/news/13444573/detail.html?dl=headlineclick

Va. Tech To Reopen Norris Hall

Classroom Building To Reopen June 18

ROANOKE, Va. -- The classroom building where a gunman killed 30 people on the Virginia Tech campus will be reopened for College of Engineering offices and laboratories later this month.
Phased re-use of Norris Hall will begin June 18. It will be dedicated to offices and laboratories for the Engineering Science and Mechanics and Civil and Environmental Engineering departments.
"I received dozens of letters and e-mail notes from faculty, staff, students, alumni, and friends expressing their views on the disposition of the building," said university President Charles Steger. "After considering all points of view that were offered, I determined the best course of action to enable the College of Engineering to continue its healing was to move forward with phased re-use of the building."

The building has been vacant since the shootings on April 16.
The university said that due to the trauma experienced by the university community, no general assignment classrooms will be held at Norris. The university plans to convert the former general assignment classrooms in Norris to other uses.
"We feel that this is the most appropriate decision for getting the college moving again while recognizing the gravity of events that occurred here," said Ed Nelson, associate dean of engineering and chair of a task force reviewing options for the university.
The university said some people may have problems going back to Norris Hall after the shootings, and the school will make accommodations on a case-by-case basis.
The university said it will erect a memorial somewhere on campus in a location more suited to reflection and testimonial.
"We would prefer to see a memorial elsewhere on campus with fitting tribute focusing on the lives, not the passing, of our colleagues, friends, and students," said Dick Benson, dean of the College of Engineering.