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View Full Version : EU aims to criminalise Holocaust denial



Hardrock69
04-18-2007, 09:27 AM
By Tobias Buck in Brussels

Published: April 17 2007 19:56 | Last updated: April 17 2007 19:56

Laws that make denying or trivialising the Holocaust a criminal offence punishable by jail sentences will be introduced across the European Union, according to a proposal expecting to win backing from ministers Thursday.

Offenders will face up to three years in jail under the proposed legislation, which will also apply to inciting violence against ethnic, religious or national groups.

Diplomats in Brussels voiced confidence on Tuesday that the controversial plan, which has been the subject of heated debate for six years, will be endorsed by member states. However, the Baltic countries and Poland are still holding out for an inclusion of “Stalinist crimes” alongside the Holocaust in the text – a move that is being resisted by the majority of other EU countries.

The latest draft, seen by the Financial Times, will make it mandatory for all Union member states to punish public incitement “to violence or hatred directed against a group of persons or a member of such a group defined by reference to race, colour, religion, descent or national or ethnic origin”.

They will also have to criminalise “publicly condoning, denying or grossly trivialising crimes of genocide, crimes against humanity and war crimes” when such statements incite hatred or violence against minorities.

Diplomats stressed the provision had been carefully worded to include only denial of the Holocaust – the Nazi mass murder of Jews during the second world war – and the genocide in Rwanda in 1994.

They also stressed that the wording was designed to avoid criminalising comical plays or films about the Holocaust such as the Italian comedian Roberto Benigni’s prize-winning Life is Beautiful . The text expressly upholds countries’ constitutional traditions relating to the freedom of expression.

Holocaust denial is already a criminal offence in several European countries, including Germany and Austria. It is not a specific crime in Britain, though UK officials said it could already be tackled under existing legislation.

In an attempt to assuage Turkish fears, several EU diplomats said the provisions would not penalise the denial of mass killing of Armenians by Ottoman troops in the aftermath of the 1915 collapse of the Ottoman empire. Turkey strongly rejects claims that this episode amounted to genocide.

The proposal draws what is likely to be a controversial distinction between inciting violence against racial or ethnic groups and against religious groups. Attacks against Muslims, Jews or other faiths will only be penalised if they go on to incite violence against ethnic or racial groups, the draft text states.


http://www.ft.com/cms/s/122134be-ed14-11db-9520-000b5df10621.html

The European Union....SIEG HEIL!!!
:rolleyes:

Figs
04-18-2007, 04:14 PM
This is mind boggling, really. Just because people want to be idiots about something shouldn't mean jail time. If a professor tries to teach this in a class they should be fired, but no jail time. Crazy. And why the resistence to including Stallin's crimes (why we're all on the banning speech bandwagon anyway)?

Nitro Express
04-18-2007, 04:31 PM
I lived in Germany for awhile and we left because it was illegal to home school your own children there. Now the govt. has taken peoples children into custody and have prosecuted the parents. Home schooling was legal in Germany until Adolf Hitler outlawed it.

The experience just drove it home to me that the United States with all it's faults still has the best Constitutional Rights in the world. If we ever let anyone tear our Constitution appart we are truley screwed. It's that piece of paper why I live here. We need to wake up and realize what we have.

It all starts in the name of doing something good and then your rights are gone. Amazing. Where's the freedom of speech? I truely believe stupid people have the right to say stupid things. Want to burn the flag? Go ahead. People died protecting your right to do so. I find it offensive and don't agree with it but you have the right to burn the flag or say the holocaust didn't happen.

Political correctness will ruin Europe and it will ruin us if we aren't careful. A new facism will result in the name of doing something good. Hitler promised everyone a new car. They never got it.

Nitro Express
04-18-2007, 04:39 PM
Even the stupid hippies in the late 1960's knew what they had. Freedom of speech. Hippies saying things the conservative crowd didn't like and waving the flag.

Then you had the civil rights movement. Black people saying things many people in the south didn't like and they were waving the flag too.

Now we live in the age of politican correctness. Keep your mouth shut or sugar coat it so you don't offend someone. We are getting to where we can't say anything.

The same constituitional rights that allow the KKK and Neo Nazis to parade and have rallies also give good people the right to do the same.

As soon as we want to shut one group down, everyone loses. Free speech means protecting the speech you don't like.

We always need an open forum where we can debate life's issues. As soon as some savior shows up that wants to wash the public square and only let certain things be said, we are in big big trouble.

Nickdfresh
04-18-2007, 05:56 PM
Idiotic...

If you really want to fuck with Holocaust deniers on any intellectual level, then debunk their crap with free speech.

This is exactly what happened to that charlatan bastard, Hitler-sycophant David Irving, when he tried to sue two people who scrupulously destroyed many of his works and exposed them for what they were, premeditated constructs of apologist propaganda...

The EU may actually be making rebels and martyrs out of fascists...

Seshmeister
04-18-2007, 08:20 PM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Idiotic...

If you really want to fuck with Holocaust deniers on any intellectual level, then debunk their crap with free speech.

This is exactly what happened to that charlatan bastard, Hitler-sycophant David Irving, when he tried to sue two people who scrupulously destroyed many of his works and exposed them for what they were, premeditated constructs of apologist propaganda...

The EU may actually be making rebels and martyrs out of fascists...

I agree entirely.

I kind of understand it being illegal in Gernay and Austria at least for a while but to me it's fucking dumb 60 years later never mind extending it.

I don't think it will happen though anyway.

FORD
04-18-2007, 09:25 PM
Originally posted by Nitro Express
I lived in Germany for awhile and we left because it was illegal to home school your own children there. Now the govt. has taken peoples children into custody and have prosecuted the parents. Home schooling was legal in Germany until Adolf Hitler outlawed it.



Home schooling should be illegal here, because the majority of the people home schooling their kids aren't remotely qualified. End result: perpetual fucking ignorance (see the last two Presidential elections)

But as for outlawing discussion of the Holocaust - good or bad - that's fucking ridiculous.

BigBadBrian
04-19-2007, 06:27 AM
Originally posted by FORD
Home schooling should be illegal here, because the majority of the people home schooling their kids aren't remotely qualified. End result: perpetual fucking ignorance (see the last two Presidential elections)



You're wrong, as usual.

:gulp:

Coyote
04-19-2007, 07:10 AM
Originally posted by Seshmeister
I kind of understand it being illegal in Gernay and Austria at least for a while but to me it's fucking dumb 60 years later never mind extending it.

Some people just LOVE being "the victim"... :rolleyes:





No, wait, I take that back. I'd rather not end up in jail...

Hardrock69
04-19-2007, 09:33 AM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
You're wrong, as usual.


The mindless one speaks....
:gulp:

Nitro Express
04-19-2007, 06:12 PM
Originally posted by FORD
Home schooling should be illegal here, because the majority of the people home schooling their kids aren't remotely qualified. End result: perpetual fucking ignorance (see the last two Presidential elections)

But as for outlawing discussion of the Holocaust - good or bad - that's fucking ridiculous.

My nephew was home schooled and he got a perfect score on his ACT. My cousin was home schooled. He just finished his masters degree at Stanford and holds nine patents on equipment he developed at Hewlett-Packard.

We pulled our kids out of public school because they weren't learning math. The teacher was teaching 8th grade level math to 5th graders! The teacher couldn't even do the problems but hey, she had the answer sheet. My wife spent sevral years as PTA president trying to improve things.

We suggested having a Qualified math teacher at school and pay these people more as an incentive to recruit people. The teachers union flamed us on that idea.

Grades don't mean shit anyways. All universities care about is SAT and ACT scores.

Nickdfresh
04-19-2007, 06:29 PM
To the last line, not true if a kid is competing for a scholarship to a prestigious school...

All cut throat shit now...