The Song Remains The Same movie

[Terry]

First I'd ever heard of this. Taken from the book Led Zeppelin:The Concert File -

August 1974
Shepperton England
Shepperton Studios

Working with new director Peter Clifton, Led Zeppelin decided to re-shoot close-up concert scenes for their in-progress feature film. The resulting 1973 footage from their 1973 Madison Square Garden shows was apparently punctuated with blank spaces. This resulted in the sacking of original producer Joe Massot and the hiring of Australian director Peter Clifton. He rebuilt the concert stage at Shepperton Studios and got the group to re-enact their stage performance of the time via miming along with the live recordings, thus filling in the blank spaces.

[katie]

Originally posted by Terry
First I'd ever heard of this. Taken from the book Led Zeppelin:The Concert File -

August 1974
Shepperton England
Shepperton Studios

Working with new director Peter Clifton, Led Zeppelin decided to re-shoot close-up concert scenes for their in-progress feature film. The resulting 1973 footage from their 1973 Madison Square Garden shows was apparently punctuated with blank spaces. This resulted in the sacking of original producer Joe Massot and the hiring of Australian director Peter Clifton. He rebuilt the concert stage at Shepperton Studios and got the group to re-enact their stage performance of the time via miming along with the live recordings, thus filling in the blank spaces.



Watch the movie again, you can easily see the difference in film quality from 'In Concert' to shepperton stage.

A fuck up from start to finnish, Thats why Jimmy Page didn't want to remaster the soundtrack CD back in the the early 90's.

And Peter Grant said 'it was the most expensive home movie ever'


Led Zep still rock a fucking big one throughout though.

[Mr Badguy]

If you`re interested you should check this site:

www.thegardentapes.co.uk

It`s an excellent analysis of the Concert film and the differences in the soundtrack.

[Hardrock69]

Wow. I never knew this.

This ranks among the top deceptions of rock history.

Such as...

1. Judas Priest - Unleashed In The East - Rob Halford had the flu when they recorded their performance in Japan....it can be heard on the formerly unreleased track Starbreaker (I think) where you can hear him try to introduce the song (croakingly).

He re-recorded all the vocal tracks on a patio at a studio in London.

He admitted this on his own forum in the late 90s.

2. Kiss Alive (Anything but). Eddie Kramer has said on numerous occasions that the only original tracks on the Alive album were Peter Criss's drums and vocals.

Everything else was re-recorded in the studio. Even the audience applause was canned.

Anyone got any other "lies" they know about?

[Mr Badguy]

It`s actually pretty easy to tell the "fake" shots as John Paul Jones has a ridiculous wig as he had short hair in 1975 when they filmed the inserts.

[BrownSound1]

Almost every live album ever made has redone vocals and other assorted fixes.

[katie]

Originally posted by BrownSound1
Almost every live album ever made has redone vocals and other assorted fixes.

Thin Lizzy - Live & Dangerous had almost everything redone except the drums. Still a killer LP.

[ace diamond]

that rotten piece of shit peter frampton's "frampton comes alive"
is a studio record. the whole thing was done in a recording studio....
not a damn thing was done live.

[Terry]

Originally posted by Mr Badguy
It`s actually pretty easy to tell the "fake" shots as John Paul Jones has a ridiculous wig as he had short hair in 1975 when they filmed the inserts.

There were several shots that always looked a bit different from the rest of the footage, but I had assumed those shots were done during soundchecks during the 1973 Garden concerts.

[Terry]

Originally posted by Hardrock69


2. Kiss Alive (Anything but). Eddie Kramer has said on numerous occasions that the only original tracks on the Alive album were Peter Criss's drums and vocals.

Everything else was re-recorded in the studio. Even the audience applause was canned.



Had been aware that most "live" releases had been retouched after the fact, but I remember being bummed reading several years ago about Alive having the same post-concert treatments. Always believed (or wanted to believe) THAT live album was actually live.

The irony for TSRTS is in addition to the mimed insert sequences, apparently even the soundtrack itself was the result of Page cobbling together various snippets of all the Garden dates for the tracks - TSRTS's Dazed and Confused had multiple edits using bits and pieces of the tune from all three shows to comprise the version that ended up on the soundtrack, and most of the other tracks underwent the same treatment...

Had always thought Page had just chosen the best complete take of a given track from one of the concerts, as opposed to just splicing it all together. I knew the video had been a mish-mash of footage from all the shows, since often times it didn't synch up with the audio, but I put that down to poor editing.

[DLRdelight!]

wow i never knew, i havent watched that dvd in a long time. guess im going to have to no

[Terry]

Originally posted by Mr Badguy
If you`re interested you should check this site:

www.thegardentapes.co.uk

It`s an excellent analysis of the Concert film and the differences in the soundtrack.

Wow.

That guy sure did his research.

AMAZING the amount of edits that went into both the film and soundtrack.

[DLRdelight!]

wow i read some of the stuff on that link. insane

[Mr Badguy]

Originally posted by Terry
Had been aware that most "live" releases had been retouched after the fact, but I remember being bummed reading several years ago about Alive having the same post-concert treatments. Always believed (or wanted to believe) THAT live album was actually live.

The irony for TSRTS is in addition to the mimed insert sequences, apparently even the soundtrack itself was the result of Page cobbling together various snippets of all the Garden dates for the tracks - TSRTS's Dazed and Confused had multiple edits using bits and pieces of the tune from all three shows to comprise the version that ended up on the soundtrack, and most of the other tracks underwent the same treatment...

Had always thought Page had just chosen the best complete take of a given track from one of the concerts, as opposed to just splicing it all together. I knew the video had been a mish-mash of footage from all the shows, since often times it didn't synch up with the audio, but I put that down to poor editing.

It`s not something to get really bummed out over.

Plenty of bootlegs over the years have shown that all of those classic bands WERE that good and the enhancements were purely for sound quality reasons.

Besides, there are no overdubs on the "Danmark Radio" segment of the DVD, which is my favourite part, and it smokes.

It may be treading a fine line ethically but if it sounds good it IS good.

[Diamondjimi]

Originally posted by Mr Badguy
If you`re interested you should check this site:

www.thegardentapes.co.uk

It`s an excellent analysis of the Concert film and the differences in the soundtrack.

The dude knows his stuff. Very interesting!

Thanks for the link!

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by Terry
First I'd ever heard of this. Taken from the book Led Zeppelin:The Concert File -

August 1974
Shepperton England
Shepperton Studios

Working with new director Peter Clifton, Led Zeppelin decided to re-shoot close-up concert scenes for their in-progress feature film. The resulting 1973 footage from their 1973 Madison Square Garden shows was apparently punctuated with blank spaces. This resulted in the sacking of original producer Joe Massot and the hiring of Australian director Peter Clifton. He rebuilt the concert stage at Shepperton Studios and got the group to re-enact their stage performance of the time via miming along with the live recordings, thus filling in the blank spaces.

Joe Massot is a worthless piece of garbage whose incompetence cost us all ALOT of Zep footage. He really screwed the pooch.

He never managed to get an entire Whole Lotta Love on film, even with three nights to record. Watch how Jimmy's Les Paul changes color thoughout the song.

[Terry]

Originally posted by Mr Badguy
It`s not something to get really bummed out over.

Plenty of bootlegs over the years have shown that all of those classic bands WERE that good and the enhancements were purely for sound quality reasons.

Besides, there are no overdubs on the "Danmark Radio" segment of the DVD, which is my favourite part, and it smokes.

It may be treading a fine line ethically but if it sounds good it IS good.

Wasn't bummed to the point of suicide or anything...more like a shattering of my own denial re: KISS Alive. I had read about the extensive overdubbing on Alive 2 years ago, and KISS Alive 3...well, they may as well have used the original studio tracks and just added pre-recorded crowd noise for as live as that thing was...

But there are plenty of Zep boots out there that put TSRTS to shame. Shit, most Zep live stuff up until about 1971 was consistently smoking, so it's not like I think either Zep or KISS sucked live or anything.

[Bonzo1026]

Yes, a couple tunes were redone at Shepperton but most of it is from MSG. You can see the difference in Plant's teeth as well. They are rotted at MSG and fixed in the retakes.

ALL the fantasy sequences were from '74-'75.

Clifton and Massot are bumbling idiots. They fucked the whole thing up. The filming was over 3 nights and they asked the band to wear the same clothes for continuity and Jonesy purposely wore different shit just to fuck with 'em. Classic!

Jimmy's guitar color changes during Whole Lotta Love are for a couple reasons. One, there were retakes at Shepperton. Two, if you watch the DVD, he hands his sunburst over in exchange for the cherry red one during the "break" before they kick the "Let That Boy Boogie" medley because he broke a string. Also, you can see the difference in both Jimmy and Bonzo's hair to tell the difference between Sheppeeton and MSG. Bonzo wears a bandana at MSG, nothing at Shepperton.
I've seen that movie well over 400 times in my years and have the original release that was in the big clamshell case.

On the DVD you'll notice during parts of Dazed and Confused and Whole Lotta Love, they try some horrible Phaser/swirl shitty effect that's really just annoying.

Word has it that Jimmy is actually working on remastering the TSRTS soundtrack as we speak. I wouldn't be surprised if you get the extras from the 2003 DVD on there as well. In addition, I would guess we'll see a DVD version with all the songs in sequence. Also rumored is an audio version of the footage from the 2003 DVD

In the original film, it always annoyed me when they jump right into Since I've Loving You because they came out of it right from Misty Mountain Hop in concert. The got it right in the 2003 DVD.

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by Bonzo1026
In the original film, it always annoyed me when they jump right into Since I've Loving You because they came out of it right from Misty Mountain Hop in concert. The got it right in the 2003 DVD.

And that Misty Mountain hop is damn excellent too. So is The Ocean. What a revalation those tracks were.

[Mr. Vengeance]

I have to tell ya....Song Remains the Same is possibly the most disapointing point in my rock life. It is maybe the worst live album/video ever.

As a huge Zep fan, I watched this and wondered how a band can be so great in studio and suck so hard and deeply in concert.

[Terry]

Originally posted by ODShowtime
And that Misty Mountain hop is damn excellent too. So is The Ocean. What a revalation those tracks were.

The Ocean especially. How that version could have been passed over/ left off the original release is a mystery.

[ben halen]

Originally posted by Bonzo1026
Yes, a couple tunes were redone at Shepperton but most of it is from MSG. You can see the difference in Plant's teeth as well. They are rotted at MSG and fixed in the retakes.

ALL the fantasy sequences were from '74-'75.

Clifton and Massot are bumbling idiots. They fucked the whole thing up. The filming was over 3 nights and they asked the band to wear the same clothes for continuity and Jonesy purposely wore different shit just to fuck with 'em. Classic!

Jimmy's guitar color changes during Whole Lotta Love are for a couple reasons. One, there were retakes at Shepperton. Two, if you watch the DVD, he hands his sunburst over in exchange for the cherry red one during the "break" before they kick the "Let That Boy Boogie" medley because he broke a string. Also, you can see the difference in both Jimmy and Bonzo's hair to tell the difference between Sheppeeton and MSG. Bonzo wears a bandana at MSG, nothing at Shepperton.
I've seen that movie well over 400 times in my years and have the original release that was in the big clamshell case.

On the DVD you'll notice during parts of Dazed and Confused and Whole Lotta Love, they try some horrible Phaser/swirl shitty effect that's really just annoying.

Word has it that Jimmy is actually working on remastering the TSRTS soundtrack as we speak. I wouldn't be surprised if you get the extras from the 2003 DVD on there as well. In addition, I would guess we'll see a DVD version with all the songs in sequence. Also rumored is an audio version of the footage from the 2003 DVD

In the original film, it always annoyed me when they jump right into Since I've Loving You because they came out of it right from Misty Mountain Hop in concert. The got it right in the 2003 DVD.

That's too funny, I always was confused about Plant's teeth in the movie.

[monkeythe]

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Give them credit for at least trying to keep some form of continuity. Unlike some other crappy band where in addition to the singer showing the ability to butcher a classic also has the ability to change shirts multiple times.

[katie]

Originally posted by monkeythe
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Give them credit for at least trying to keep some form of continuity. Unlike some other crappy band where in addition to the singer showing the ability to butcher a classic also has the ability to change shirts multiple times.



To this day i just don't get it.

Out of all the singers that they could have had, they chose him.

What were they thinking.




.

[Mr Badguy]

Originally posted by Mr. Vengeance
I have to tell ya....Song Remains the Same is possibly the most disapointing point in my rock life. It is maybe the worst live album/video ever.

As a huge Zep fan, I watched this and wondered how a band can be so great in studio and suck so hard and deeply in concert.

I don`t think it`s as bad as everyone makes out.

I enjoy all of it, except maybe "Moby dick" on the album which goes on a bit. It`s alright in the film as it has some great footage to go with it.

Perhaps because Zep themselves have said that they`re not too keen on it (maybe because it was released at a low point in their career not long after Plant`s accident and just before the ill fated `77 US tour), then everyone else feels they can bash it.

It`s not the worst live album or video ever.

[Bonzo1026]

Originally posted by Mr. Vengeance
I have to tell ya....Song Remains the Same is possibly the most disapointing point in my rock life. It is maybe the worst live album/video ever.

As a huge Zep fan, I watched this and wondered how a band can be so great in studio and suck so hard and deeply in concert.

I agree the video was poorly made and musically it was edited even worse but I question your judgement on the performance itself. Are you actually saying that the Since I've Been Loving You and Dazed and Confused guitar solos are less than blistering? To end another myth, when Bonham snaps at the end of Dazed and Confused, the film is NOT sped up. I have bootlegs to prove it. Speaking of boots, there were certainly much better performances than MSG but to say they sucked live is almost ignorant. No offense but I respectfully disagree. Now Jimmy in '77? He sounded like someone poured molasses and orange juice on his hands and dried them with a blow dryer but China white will evidently do that to a cat.

[Bonzo1026]

Originally posted by Mr Badguy
I don`t think it`s as bad as everyone makes out.

I enjoy all of it, except maybe "Moby dick" on the album which goes on a bit. It`s alright in the film as it has some great footage to go with it.

Perhaps because Zep themselves have said that they`re not too keen on it (maybe because it was released at a low point in their career not long after Plant`s accident and just before the ill fated `77 US tour), then everyone else feels they can bash it.

It`s not the worst live album or video ever.

I agree it's not the worst. Being a drummer heavily if not solely influenced by Bonham, I do enjoy Moby Dick and studied the film along woth other bootlegs in order to play it live with my own band. (I obviously skipped the kettle drum bit because I didn't have $86K laying around to get them, Ha ha)But I can see if one is not a drummer, it can seem pretty long.

Yes, Zep were not keen on it but the main problem they had with it was since it wasn't released until '76, the looked outdated because the show was from '73 and fashion had changed quite a bit in those 3 short years and they looked like hippies in th4e disco age. And knowing what perfectionists they were, I'm sure they were almost embarrassed that the quality was so bad to boot. I have to say I'm glad they released it though because we would never seen ANY live footage until 2003.

[Bonzo1026]

Originally posted by Terry
The Ocean especially. How that version could have been passed over/ left off the original release is a mystery.

The Ocean rocks! I'm baffled as well as to why it was left out of both the video and soundtrack because they were really kickin it and the tunes is FULL of energy. You can see they're havin' a blast.

I have an audio boot of them doing it in '73 in LA and it's the best version I've heard. The whole crowd does the vocal break in the middle. That and Black Dog. Fuckin' goosebumps, dude!

I actually have a VHS boot of the stuff cut out from the original movie. I've seen The Ocean, Misty Mountin Hop, etc but the quality was always shitty so seeing the cleaned up version was pretty tasty.

The 2003 DVD was a real treat for the diehards because most of us had all that that footage but it was grainy and shitty. I've had the entire Knebworth show since like '87 or so but it's barely watchable.

It would be the equivalent to diehard VH fans with a release of the US Festival as opposed to what everyone has.

[Mr. Vengeance]

I just think that they were so damn good in the studio, that they couldn't recreate the same thing live. SRTS had bad sound and the tunes all seem either too slow or too rushed, sometimes in the same song. There are some good solos.

Also, the crowd seems DEAD. Maybe becasue they were all baked?

[Bonzo1026]

Originally posted by Mr. Vengeance
I just think that they were so damn good in the studio, that they couldn't recreate the same thing live. SRTS had bad sound and the tunes all seem either too slow or too rushed, sometimes in the same song. There are some good solos.

Also, the crowd seems DEAD. Maybe becasue they were all baked?

Dude, the '70's at a Zep show???? Yeah I'd say baked. Then again they seemed a bit stunned as well. The cop during Since I've Been Loving You right after the solo cracks me up every time. People could be getting mugged, raped and stabbed right behind him and he wouldn't have known. Looks like he's in a trance. It certainly doesn't carry over onto film or even audio but they were fuckin' LOUD!!!! Maybe the crowd was deafened. ha ha

As far as live re-creation, It's obviously gonna be "thinner" or "emptier" because it's impossible for Jimmy to play the 366,908 overdub tracks from the studio versions. Not saying I don't agree with you but I would think that explains it somewhat.

No way Plant could wail like he does every night on a tour either.

TSRTS is most definitely not a good representation.

Check out Royal Albert Hall on the 2003 DVD. Oh boy!

[Terry]

Page just started getting a bit too fucked up after 1972, and Plant's voice lost a bit of power right around the same period.

TSRTS isn't a flattering representation, but an accurate enough one of that string of gigs, even taking all the dubs and editing involved.

Have heard stuff from the 1977 tour, not even just talking Seattle here either, where Jones and Bonham are chugging along as always, but Page is fumbling and Plant is clearly having problems. Were kinda inconsistent from the mid 1970s on.

[matt19]

Originally posted by monkeythe
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Give them credit for at least trying to keep some form of continuity. Unlike some other crappy band where in addition to the singer showing the ability to butcher a classic also has the ability to change shirts multiple times.

Seriously WTF is with those spandex plaid pants????