Gitmo: A National Disgrace

[Hyman Roth]

Editorial
Gitmo: A National Disgrace
Sign In to E-Mail or Save This Print Share
DiggFacebookNewsvinePermalink

Published: June 6, 2007
Ever since President Bush rammed the Military Commissions Act of 2006 through Congress to lend a pretense of legality to his detention camp at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, we have urged Congress to amend the law to restore basic human rights and judicial process. Rulings by military judges this week suggest that the special detention system is so fundamentally corrupt that the only solution is to tear it down and start again.

The target of the judges’ rulings were Combatant Status Review Tribunals, panels that determine whether a prisoner is an “unlawful enemy combatant” who can be tried by one of the commissions created by the 2006 law. The tribunals are, in fact, kangaroo courts that give the inmates no chance to defend themselves, allow evidence that was obtained through torture and can be repeated until one produces the answer the Pentagon wants.

On Monday, two military judges dismissed separate war crimes charges against two Guantánamo inmates because of the status review system. They said the Pentagon managed to get them declared “enemy combatants,” but not “unlawful enemy combatants,” and moved to try them anyway under the 2006 law. That law says only unlawful combatants may be tried by military commissions. Lawful combatants (those who wear uniforms and carry weapons openly) fall under the Geneva Conventions.

If the administration loses an appeal, which it certainly should, it will no doubt try to tinker with the review tribunals so they produce the desired verdict. Congress cannot allow that. When you can’t win a bet with loaded dice, something is wrong with the game.

There is only one path likely to lead to a result that would allow Americans to once again hold their heads high when it comes to justice and human rights. First, Congress needs to restore the right of the inmates of Guantánamo Bay to challenge their detentions. By the administration’s own count, only a small minority of the inmates actually deserve a trial. The rest should be sent home or set free.

Second, Congress should repeal the Military Commissions Act and start anew on a just system for determining whether prisoners are unlawful combatants. Among other things, evidence obtained through coercion and torture should be banned.

And Congress should shut down Guantánamo Bay, as called for in bills sponsored by two California Democrats, Representative Jane Harman in the House and Senator Dianne Feinstein in the Senate. Both lawmakers are intimately familiar with the camp and have concluded it is beyond salvaging.

Their bill would close Gitmo in a year and the detainees would be screened by real courts. Those who are truly illegal combatants would be sent to military or civilian jails in the United States, to be tried under time-tested American rules of justice, or sent to an international tribunal. Some would be returned to their native lands for trial, if warranted. The rest would be set free, as they should have been long ago.

The Guantánamo camp was created on a myth — that the American judicial system could not handle prisoners of “the war against terror.” It was built on a lie — that the hundreds of detainees at Gitmo are all dangerous terrorists. And it was organized around a fiction — that Mr. Bush had the power to create this rogue system in the first place.

It is time to get rid of it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/06/opinion/06wed1.html

[Hyman Roth]

I haven't read the Military Commissions Act of 2006, and I am struggling to understand all the issues involved, but it seems to me a basic matter of human rights that these people should have the right to challenge their detainment instead of being held indefinately without a trial on the merits of their cases.

If anyone being detained committed acts of terrorism against the United States, then have a trial, prove it, and punish the guilty accordingly. If not - let them go.

Its a basic virtue in America that the accused should have a right to a speedy trial and the opportunity to face their accusers in a court of law. I shudder to think how many innocent people are being kept from their families and lives while they rot away and are possibly being tortured in Bush's persecution camp. If it is only one person, then that is one too many.

[Wallyg]

Here's how we used to handle "terrorists."

FBI History
Famous Cases

George John Dasch and the Nazi Saboteurs

Shortly after midnight on the morning of June 13, 1942, four men landed on a beach near Amagansett, Long Island, New York, from a German submarine, clad in German uniforms and bringing ashore enough explosives, primers, and incendiaries to support an expected two-year career in the sabotage of American defense-related production. On June 17, 1942, a similar group landed on Ponte Vedra Beach, near Jacksonville, Florida, equipped for a similar career in industrial disruption.

The purpose of the invasions was to strike a major blow for Germany by bringing the violence of war to our home ground through destruction of America's ability to manufacture vital equipment and supplies and transport them to the battlegrounds of Europe; to strike fear into the American civilian population, and diminish the resolve of the United States to overcome our enemies.

By June 27, 1942, all eight saboteurs had been arrested without having accomplished one act of destruction. Tried before a Military Commission, they were found guilty. One was sentenced to life imprisonment, another to thirty years, and six received the death penalty, which was carried out within a few days.

The eight were tried before a Military Commission, comprised of seven U.S. Army officers appointed by President Roosevelt, from July 8, to August 4, 1942. The trial was held in the Department of Justice Building, Washington, D.C. The prosecution was headed by Attorney General Frances Biddle and the Army Judge Advocate General, Major General Myron C. Cramer. Defense counsel included Colonel Kenneth C. Royall (later Secretary of War under President Truman) and Major Lausen H. Stone (son of Harlan Fiske Stone, the Chief Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court).

All eight were found guilty and sentenced to death. Attorney General Biddle and J. Edgar Hoover appealed to President Roosevelt to commute the sentences of Dasch and Burger. Dasch then received a 30-year sentence, and Burger received a life sentence, both to be served in a federal penitentiary. The remaining six were executed at the District of Columbia Jail on August 8, 1942.

[hideyoursheep]

Originally posted by Wallyg
Here's how we used to handle "terrorists."



The eight were tried before a Military Commission, comprised of seven U.S. Army officers appointed by President Roosevelt, from July 8, to August 4, 1942. The trial was held in the Department of Justice Building, Washington, D.C. The prosecution was headed by Attorney General Frances Biddle and the Army Judge Advocate General, Major General Myron C. Cramer. Defense counsel included Colonel Kenneth C. Royall (later Secretary of War under President Truman) and Major Lausen H. Stone (son of Harlan Fiske Stone, the Chief Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court).

When do the trials begin for thr Gitmo suspects?

[Angel]

Originally posted by hideyoursheep
When do the trials begin for thr Gitmo suspects?

Some have started already. In fact, charges were just dismissed against Canadian Omar Khadr, unfortunately. The little bastard comes from a family of Al-Qaeda connected terrorists, but the US fucked up on this one. (Just as we fucked up when we rescued his Dad years ago).

Still no word on when he'll actually gets released.

http://www.thestar.com/article/221310

[hideyoursheep]

Charges were dropped and you're calling him a little bastard?

I don't get it.

So, he's guilty anyway?

[WACF]

Yes...he is guilty.


....Judge Army Col Peter Brownback ruled that the military commissions did not have the jurisdiction to hear Khadr’s case following a brief hearing today.

He got off on a technicality.

[Hyman Roth]

The charges were dismissed "without prejudice"...which means he can be charged again.

[Angel]

Originally posted by hideyoursheep
Charges were dropped and you're calling him a little bastard?

I don't get it.

So, he's guilty anyway?

His entire family is a national disgrace to Canada.

[hideyoursheep]

Originally posted by Angel
His entire family is a national disgrace to Canada.

Get rid of them if they're guilty of terrorist activity. How hard could it be to enforce?

[Angel]

Originally posted by hideyoursheep
Get rid of them if they're guilty of terrorist activity. How hard could it be to enforce?

There's so much bs behind this family and their stories it's unbelievable. Supposedly, one of the sons has now renounced Al-Qaeda and is a CIA informant...

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/khadr/

[hideyoursheep]

Yes, I've seen the PBS doc on that kid. His father was killed right?

Yet his family still believes in the cause?

I believe the kid.

[Angel]

Originally posted by hideyoursheep
Yes, I've seen the PBS doc on that kid. His father was killed right?

Yet his family still believes in the cause?

I believe the kid.

Yeah, father was killed and younger brother was injured. The family brought him back to Canada to take advantage of our medical. The country received a threat from Al-Qaeda that we would be attacked if we didn't provide medical attention.

The mother is fucking unbelievable! She's PROUD of the fact that her husband died a "martyr" and that her children have been injured pursuing the cause.

States they're not Al-Qaeda but sympathetic to the cause. Yet Osama was at their daughters wedding, and their is footage of them in Al-Qaeda training camps. Total Bullshit!!!!

[Nickdfresh]

GITMO IS a motherfucking national disgrace...

Most of the "terrorists" there were rounded up by Northern Alliance forces and simply handed over without the slightest shred of evidence as too their guilt. And even if they weren't, I don't believe fighting in a legitimate military formation constitutes being labeled a "terrorist," because otherwise, US troops could be "terrorists" in someone else's court. Couldn't they?

In fact, many GITMO inmates are probably guilty of only owing money, or sleeping with the daughter, of some tribal chieftain...

If someone is a terrorist baby-killer, make no mistake, I think they should be killed, or serve life without parole so they can have their assholes raped daily...

But everyone deserves a fair trial, man. They deserve the right to face their accuser...

And apparently, in many cases, their accuser is as bad or worse --morally speaking...

[Hyman Roth]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
GITMO IS a motherfucking national disgrace...




Exactamundo and well said, as usual, Nick.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Hyman Roth
Exactamundo and well said, as usual, Nick.

Thanks man. It's good to see you 'round here on a regular basis Hyman. You've a great mind, please share more often...

[Hyman Roth]

Damn, Nick - that's like the nicest thing anyone has ever said to me on these boards. Dude I wish I had a fraction of the knowledge you carry around about all the issues that get debated around here.

If you get some time, check out this link. These are the guys that are representing many of the detainees. Its William Kunstler's old firm. There's a lot of info on there I have been trying to sift through to get up to speed on this. I don't know why this one struck such a nerve with me....I heard a story on NPR a few weeks back I guess....anyhoo, thanks for your kind words!

http://www.ccr-ny.org/v2/home.asp

[Hyman Roth]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
... And even if they weren't, I don't believe fighting in a legitimate military formation constitutes being labeled a "terrorist," because otherwise, US troops could be "terrorists" in someone else's court. Couldn't they? ...


But help me understand ...isn't one of the legitimate issues here whether or not these detainees were "fighting in a legitimate military formation". If they were...then they get tried under the Genova Conventions...and then I guess they get the kind of trial like Milosovich received (and the Nuerenburg trials)...right...? Then I guess another catagory could be just "enemy combatants"...in which case they get treated how...and then what is the difference between a "enemy combatant" and an "unlawful enemy combatant"....if you have a quick answer...you could save me some time reading this shit on my monitor (I'm starting to get a crick in my neck!!).

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Hyman Roth
But help me understand ...isn't one of the legitimate issues here whether or not these detainees were "fighting in a legitimate military formation". If they were...then they get tried under the Genova Conventions...

No. They get held as POWs for the duration, so send 'em back to Afghanistan and let the Kabul gov't deal with the locals, and send everyone else back to their countries of origin, or charge the few actual plotters with actual terror related charges for the big cunts like Khalid Sheik Mohammad.


and then I guess they get the kind of trial like Milosovich received (and the Nuerenburg trials)...right...? Then I guess another catagory could be just "enemy combatants"...in which case they get treated how...and then what is the difference between a "enemy combatant" and an "unlawful enemy combatant"....if you have a quick answer...you could save me some time reading this shit on my monitor (I'm starting to get a crick in my neck!!).

The difference is semantical. The Admin has claimed that we were essentially fighting spies that were not wearing uniforms when in fact they were in militia battle dress consistent with the fighting in that part of the world since the late 1970s.

If you're a lawyer, and I don't know you are, you may want to research the case where the six German spies (http://www.culver.org/students/academics/library/Sept2004%20New%20Books/saboteurs.htm) were arrested and executed during WWII after they landed on the east coast to conduct sabotage. I believe that case is where the Bush Admin derives its (deeply flawed) precedents from, though I'm no lawyer and I could be very wrong in that assumption...

In any case, GITMO should be closed and the guys there charged or released...

[Hyman Roth]

Thanks for the input - I read with interest the post on the german spies mentioned by WallyG...I had heard about that matter before but not in great detail. I'll definitely check into it more.

And....I have a special practice....limited to only one client.

http://a.photos.cx/300px-Al_Pacino_and_Robert_Duvall_in_the_Godfather-f7d.jpg

Nah - seriously - I sent out an email to Kunstler's old firm in the link above the other day begging them to let me help them pro bono. I'll let you know if I hear back from them.

For anyone that is interested, here's other informative blogs on the issue:

http://gtmodocuments.blogspot.com/
http://gtmoblog.blogspot.com/

[Hyman Roth]

Man labeled "enemy combatant" wins court case

Mon Jun 11, 2007 12:59PM EDT

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President George W. Bush cannot order the military to seize and indefinitely detain a Qatari national and suspected al Qaeda operative, the only person being held in the United States as an "enemy combatant," an appeals court ruled on Monday.

In a major setback for Bush's policies in the war on terrorism adopted after the September 11 attacks, the appellate panel ruled 2-1 the U.S. government had no evidence to treat Ali Saleh Kahlah al-Marri as an "enemy combatant." The court ordered him released from military custody....

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSWAT00770820070611

========

The decision was handed in today in the 4th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals...

[studly hungwell]

Non citizens are not to be afforded the same rights as citizens of the United States. It really pisses me off when people talk about "rights" of immigrants, terrorists, enemy combatants, etc. It's a big deal to be a US citizen. Citizens have access to due process and the courts. Non citizens should not. For every non-citizen granted a court date, there is a citizen being denied access to the courts. Sounds hardcore and hateful but true.

[Nickdfresh]

Yeah, that explains why the Bouche administration wanted to hold American citizens as "enemy combatants."

It's something called a slippery slope that unethical, self righteous stupid people fall into all of the time...

And the Judicial system HAS worked reasonably well against terrorists. The Blind Sheik is a prime example. He's now in the bowels of the US prison system and is completely ignored by pretty much everyone. He's now a terrorist nonperson.

Fucking Gitmo is a sham, and even many conservatives have called for its closing because it's such an embarrassment..

[Hyman Roth]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Yeah, that explains why the Bouche administration wanted to hold American citizens as "enemy combatants."

It's something called a slippery slope that unethical, self righteous stupid people fall into all of the time...

And the Judicial system HAS worked reasonably well against terrorists. The Blind Sheik is a prime example. He's now in the bowels of the US prison system and is completely ignored by pretty much everyone. He's now a terrorist nonperson.

Fucking Gitmo is a sham, and even many conservatives have called for its closing because it's such an embarrassment..

LOL - terroristica non gratis.

Some polititian out of Switzerland is making a deal out of The Shiek being tortured first in secret CIA camps in Poland or Romania. ...another thread?


Originally posted by studly hungwell
Non citizens are not to be afforded the same rights as citizens of the United States. It really pisses me off when people talk about "rights" of immigrants, terrorists, enemy combatants, etc. It's a big deal to be a US citizen. Citizens have access to due process and the courts. Non citizens should not. For every non-citizen granted a court date, there is a citizen being denied access to the courts. Sounds hardcore and hateful but true.

You know what - you've convinced me. Let's just line them all up, put a slug in the back of all their heads and dump the bodies in some Cuban swamp. Fuck it, they don't need a trial. Do it tomorrow morning. They should have been born in America where we are lucky that we hold certain "truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness".

By the way - the quote is from the Declaration of Independence. I want to be sure to type the source for everything I post on this message board. I wouldn't want to be accosted by an alias on a some pathetic mission and accused of "internet plagiarism" - whateverthefuck that is. It must be a big deal to academia. Of course funny pictures I just saved in my hard drive while surfing who knows when, I will never be able to post, because I can't remember where they came from....:( ...gee, I wonder if I should post all the signatories to that national treasure to be safe....can I log on later and do that?