Bush vetoes stem cell research

[jharp84]

We all knew this was coming! BUT WTF! 1st IRAQ! NOW This! This could only help the HUMAN RACE!! MF the KING of all JAGS EVER!!!

[jharp84]

Let's not make this a Republican vs. Democrat thing! I am neither! Fucks on both sides! In fact I don't like any politician!! Except for a handful of past gone!!

[FORD]

Of course he did. Bush is "pro-life", you know :rolleyes:

I hope Nancy Reagan kicks his ass.

[jharp84]

Originally posted by FORD
Of course he did. Bush is "pro-life", you know :rolleyes:

I hope Nancy Reagan kicks his ass. :mad:

[Redballjets88]

Originally posted by FORD
Of course he did. Bush is "pro-life", you know :rolleyes:

I hope Nancy Reagan kicks his ass.

that shouldnt matter. i myself am pro-life, but i say as long as they are doing abortions we might as well do the research

[Angel]

I guess you'll have to rely on Canada for the research. Our government recently budgeted more money for it.

[jharp84]

I think I'm going to have to move NORTH!!! Is there any decent pizza though?? Or Italian Beefs? Chicago food will kill me before my soon to be ex-wife does! F-GWB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!CACKSUKER!!!!! !

[Nickdfresh]

It's not a question of "abortions," it's a question of using blastocysts, or throwing them out...

Apparently, to superstitious or lying Republican retards, one qualifies as murder while the other does not!

[jharp84]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
It's not a question of "abortions," it's a question of using blastocysts, or throwing them out...

Apparently, to superstitious or lying Republican retards, one qualifies as murder while the other does not!

Me says 5 stars for that quote!!! l

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by FORD
Of course he did. Bush is "pro-life", you know :rolleyes:

I hope Nancy Reagan kicks his ass.

Depends what her astrology tells her to do...:rolleyes:

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by Angel
I guess you'll have to rely on Canada for the research. Our government recently budgeted more money for it.

With all you whiz kids up there, that ought to make us all feel better.

:rolleyes:

[Angel]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
With all you whiz kids up there, that ought to make us all feel better.

:rolleyes:

If you had any clue as to how much medical research and advancement is made up here, you wouldn't be rolling your eyes.

"Stem cell research centre attracts leading scientist back to Canada" http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2006/10/25/keller-stem-cells.html

Speaking of whiz kids: http://youtube.com/watch?v=seYUbVa7L7w

[Redballjets88]

Originally posted by Angel
If you had any clue as to how much medical research and advancement is made up here, you wouldn't be rolling your eyes.

"Stem cell research centre attracts leading scientist back to Canada" http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2006/10/25/keller-stem-cells.html

Speaking of whiz kids: http://youtube.com/watch?v=seYUbVa7L7w



my guess is zero...last night on the radio show "Loveline" hosted by world renowned Dr. Drew, dr. drew went off on the canadian health care system, and said that 85% of major medical research and advancments are done in the US. he went on to tell a story about how he used to work for the canadian system in a respect and thousands of canadians are sent to the US for treatment b/c the entire struture there is shit.


but keep loving your shitty system angel

[Angel]

Originally posted by Redballjets88
but keep loving your shitty system angel

I'm alive because of that "shitty" system... keep talking out your ass Redball...

WHICH Dr. Drew are you referring to?

[FORD]

Originally posted by Angel
I'm alive because of that "shitty" system... keep talking out your ass Redball...

WHICH Dr. Drew are you referring to?

Dr. Drew Pinsky is a radio host. His show "Loveline" was also on MTV for a few years. Adam Carolla was the guest host.

Pinsky's a real MD, but this wouldn't be the first time I've heard him give an answer which supports the US corporatist medical "establishment".

[Angel]

Originally posted by Redballjets88
my guess is zero...last night on the radio show "Loveline" hosted by world renowned Dr. Drew, dr. drew went off on the canadian health care system, and said that 85% of major medical research and advancments are done in the US. he went on to tell a story about how he used to work for the canadian system in a respect and thousands of canadians are sent to the US for treatment b/c the entire struture there is shit.


but keep loving your shitty system angel

Here you go, little boy... looks like your system is even shittier than ours:

Canadians Healthier Than Americans - Study

Published on Wednesday, May 31, 2006 by Reuters <http://www.reuters.com>
Canadians Healthier Than Americans - Study
by Maggie Fox

Despite complaints about long waits for services, Canadians are healthier than their U.S. neighbors and receive more consistent medical care, according to a report released on Tuesday.

A telephone survey of more than 8,000 people showed that even though Americans spend nearly twice as much per capita for health care, they have more trouble getting care and have more unmet health needs than Canadians do.

The survey was done by Harvard Medical School researchers who include members of Physicians for a National Health Program, which advocates for a national health program in the United States.
"These findings raise serious questions about what we're getting for the $2.1 trillion we're spending on health care this year," said Dr. David Himmelstein, an associate professor of medicine at Harvard.

"We pay almost twice what Canada does for care, more than $6,000 for every American, yet Canadians are healthier, and live two to three years longer," Himmelstein added in a statement.

"Canadians had better access to most types of medical care (with the single exception of pap smears)", Himmelstein and colleagues wrote in the study, published in the American Journal of Public Health.

"Canadians were 7 percent more likely to have a regular doctor and 19 percent less likely to have an unmet health need. U.S. respondents were almost twice as likely to go without a needed medicine due to cost (9.9 percent of U.S. respondents couldn't afford medicine versus 5.1 percent in Canada)," they added.

UNMET NEEDS

"After taking into account income, age, sex, race and immigrant status, Canadians were 33 percent more likely to have a regular doctor and 27 percent less likely to have an unmet health need."
The researchers analyzed data from a telephone survey of 3,505 Canadian and 5,103 U.S. adults.

They wanted to see if there were any differences in health between Canadians, who have a tax-supported national health care system, and Americans, whose health care largely depends on private insurers, employers or the free market, with older Americans and the very poor cared for by Medicare, Medicaid and other joint federal-state health insurance plans.

The researchers found that U.S. residents had higher rates of diabetes, arthritis, chronic lung disease, high blood pressure and obesity.

"Most of what we hear about the Canadian health care system is negative; in particular, the long waiting times for medical procedures," Dr. Karen Lasser an instructor of medicine at Harvard who worked on the study, said in a statement.

"But we found that waiting times affect few patients, only 3.5 percent of Canadians versus 0.7 percent of people in the U.S. No one ever talks about the fact that low-income and minority patients fare better in Canada," she added.

"Based on our findings, if I had to choose between the two systems for my patients, I would choose the Canadian system hands down."

The researchers said the study population was representative of 206 million U.S. adults and 24 million Canadian adults but noted that only half the Americans contacted took part in the survey, and 60 percent of the Canadians.

©2006 Reuters

Our system may not be perfect, but it's still better than yours

[WACF]

Originally posted by FORD
Dr. Drew Pinsky is a radio host. His show "Loveline" was also on MTV for a few years. Adam Carolla was the guest host.

Pinsky's a real MD, but this wouldn't be the first time I've heard him give an answer which supports the US corporatist medical "establishment".

Something to keep in mind is that when we went to Socialized medicine alot of doctors were bucking it.

Alot did not want it...some went south.

It all came down to cash and a fear of not getting a big piece of the pie.

I would suspect that this dude would qualify for the group that only worries about his own wallet and not doing what is best for everyone.

[Redballjets88]

he is actually one of the most respected physicians in his feild, but w/e...he doesnt have an agenda to push american medicine. he has been apart of both canadian and american medine and flat out said america is better. and is a democrat so FORD can't say the BCE owns him.

[Redballjets88]

Originally posted by WACF
Something to keep in mind is that when we went to Socialized medicine alot of doctors were bucking it.

Alot did not want it...some went south.

It all came down to cash and a fear of not getting a big piece of the pie.

I would suspect that this dude would qualify for the group that only worries about his own wallet and not doing what is best for everyone.

a lot of his work in non-profit. he works with a lot of addicts and things like that along with being a MD he is also a Phyciatrist. if you have been listening to the show for years like i have you might know this. but at least i could let you know ;)

[Angel]

Originally posted by Redballjets88
he has been apart of both canadian and american medine and flat out said america is better. and is a democrat so FORD can't say the BCE owns him.

Hmmm... no record of him ever being licensed to practice medicine in Canada that I can find,. What province or territory was he licensed in?

You still haven't responded to the Harvard Study.

Our system may not be the best, but it is still better than yours...

Little boy.

[WACF]

Redballjets88

I really hope no one you know and love is involved in an accident or becomes sick...no one likes finding out the hard way that you are fucked because of your attitude towards medical care.


You definity know more about this dude than I do...thanks for giving some background.

[Angel]

WACF - You're so much more diplomatic than I... thanks for that. :D

[FORD]

Redballs has to be the second most ignorant primate species to ever live in Texas.

(We all know who #1 was)

[Redballjets88]

Originally posted by FORD
Redballs has to be the second most ignorant primate species to ever live in Texas.

(We all know who #1 was)

hahahaha and FORD is the #1 loon on earth. the point is that canada sucks balls.

[Angel]

Damn, you're really jealous of us, aren't you...

Man, you must not have a life, or friends.... 19 years old and you hang out on a website full of "middle-agers"....

ROFLMMFAO!

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by Angel
Damn, you're really jealous of us, aren't you...

Deep inside... "they" all are!



JOKE
JOKE
JOKE


































NOT! :D

[blonddgirl777]

Angel,

I am happy to tell you that my Canadian patriotism is rising as my American one is slowly dropping...

[WACF]

Originally posted by Redballjets88

the point is that canada sucks balls.



The point is that whenever I flush my toilet your sink gurgles....

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by WACF
The point is that whenever I flush my toilet your sink gurgles....

L.O.L.

[jharp84]

ENOUGH ALREADY! I thought this was going to be a DEM VS. REP. WAR! NOW it is a US VS. CANADA!!!! NOT GOOD!! It's friday! Everyone do like me: go get 1.5 of skol vodka! Or VICE of choice(legal or not)! Kick back! Enjoy!! Life is short! There is way to much stress!!

[Angel]

Originally posted by blonddgirl777
Angel,

I am happy to tell you that my Canadian patriotism is rising as my American one is slowly dropping...


I knew you were a smart girl. ;)

How's the baby??? PM me a picture! :D

[Angel]

Originally posted by jharp84
ENOUGH ALREADY! I thought this was going to be a DEM VS. REP. WAR! NOW it is a US VS. CANADA!!!! NOT GOOD!! It's friday! Everyone do like me: go get 1.5 of skol vodka! Or VICE of choice(legal or not)! Kick back! Enjoy!! Life is short! There is way to much stress!!

I wonder how many threads in the Roth world Angel has done this to? :D (I'm such a shit disturber). It's actually a Canadian vs Rep. war... somehow I don't often have much to argue about with Dems. ;)

You have your vodka, I'll smoke a joint (as soon as I get home that is).

[Baby's On Fire]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
With all you whiz kids up there, that ought to make us all feel better.

:rolleyes:

Dude,

Americans are World-reknowned for their genius....but it is a very small percentile of the US population.

The USA is also known for it's INCREDIBLE STUPIDITY.....and you are evidence of that.

Ever hear the term "Dumbass American"? There's a reason for it you know.

[Baby's On Fire]

Originally posted by Angel
Here you go, little boy... looks like your system is even shittier than ours:

Canadians Healthier Than Americans - Study

Published on Wednesday, May 31, 2006 by Reuters <http://www.reuters.com>
Canadians Healthier Than Americans - Study
by Maggie Fox

Despite complaints about long waits for services, Canadians are healthier than their U.S. neighbors and receive more consistent medical care, according to a report released on Tuesday.

A telephone survey of more than 8,000 people showed that even though Americans spend nearly twice as much per capita for health care, they have more trouble getting care and have more unmet health needs than Canadians do.

The survey was done by Harvard Medical School researchers who include members of Physicians for a National Health Program, which advocates for a national health program in the United States.
"These findings raise serious questions about what we're getting for the $2.1 trillion we're spending on health care this year," said Dr. David Himmelstein, an associate professor of medicine at Harvard.

"We pay almost twice what Canada does for care, more than $6,000 for every American, yet Canadians are healthier, and live two to three years longer," Himmelstein added in a statement.

"Canadians had better access to most types of medical care (with the single exception of pap smears)", Himmelstein and colleagues wrote in the study, published in the American Journal of Public Health.

"Canadians were 7 percent more likely to have a regular doctor and 19 percent less likely to have an unmet health need. U.S. respondents were almost twice as likely to go without a needed medicine due to cost (9.9 percent of U.S. respondents couldn't afford medicine versus 5.1 percent in Canada)," they added.

UNMET NEEDS

"After taking into account income, age, sex, race and immigrant status, Canadians were 33 percent more likely to have a regular doctor and 27 percent less likely to have an unmet health need."
The researchers analyzed data from a telephone survey of 3,505 Canadian and 5,103 U.S. adults.

They wanted to see if there were any differences in health between Canadians, who have a tax-supported national health care system, and Americans, whose health care largely depends on private insurers, employers or the free market, with older Americans and the very poor cared for by Medicare, Medicaid and other joint federal-state health insurance plans.

The researchers found that U.S. residents had higher rates of diabetes, arthritis, chronic lung disease, high blood pressure and obesity.

"Most of what we hear about the Canadian health care system is negative; in particular, the long waiting times for medical procedures," Dr. Karen Lasser an instructor of medicine at Harvard who worked on the study, said in a statement.

"But we found that waiting times affect few patients, only 3.5 percent of Canadians versus 0.7 percent of people in the U.S. No one ever talks about the fact that low-income and minority patients fare better in Canada," she added.

"Based on our findings, if I had to choose between the two systems for my patients, I would choose the Canadian system hands down."

The researchers said the study population was representative of 206 million U.S. adults and 24 million Canadian adults but noted that only half the Americans contacted took part in the survey, and 60 percent of the Canadians.

©2006 Reuters

Our system may not be perfect, but it's still better than yours


We're also smarter.

[vh rides again]

Originally posted by Angel
Hmmm... no record of him ever being licensed to practice medicine in Canada that I can find,. What province or territory was he licensed in?

You still haven't responded to the Harvard Study.

Our system may not be the best, but it is still better than yours...

Little boy.
damn right, you guys up there arent giving free health care to 12 million mexicans.

[Baby's On Fire]

Originally posted by vh rides again
damn right, you guys up there arent giving free health care to 12 million mexicans.

We're giving free health care to 12 million other immigrants however. I'm not joking.

On the downside, NO hospital here will refuse to treat you, regardless of whether you are a Citizen or have an OHIP Card (which is basically a card to verify you are entitled to health care paid by the government.)

So, you can live here without official status, get treated and NEVER pay it back.

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by Angel
... I'll smoke a joint (as soon as I get home that is).

I'll join you (as soon as the baby's in bed)!

Will try to PM a pic... weird to see a BOY that looks like me :p

[Nickdfresh]

How the fuck did this thread turn from a comment on Bush's cynical, calculated hypocrisy on stem cell research to another retarded flameathon on Canadian universal health care vs. the US HMO system?

I might actually have to moderate and dump this off-topic shit since we already have a motherfucking Canadian vs. US healthcare thread. Do we not?

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
... we already have a motherfucking Canadian vs. US healthcare thread. Do we not?

We sure did and when we don't... some random thread ends up getting owned by that subject...

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
... Canadian vs. US healthcare...

If only I could live the rest of my life without EVER hearing an argument about that again! :rolleyes:

[vh rides again]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
How the fuck did this thread turn from a comment on Bush's cynical, calculated hypocrisy on stem cell research to another retarded flameathon on Canadian universal health care vs. the US HMO system?

I might actually have to moderate and dump this off-topic shit since we already have a motherfucking Canadian vs. US healthcare thread. Do we not?

the canadians did it.

[jharp84]

I never INTENDED THIS BULLSHIT! MY INTENTION WAS ANOTHER UN-FUCKIN-BELIEVABLE IDIOTIC MOVE BY THE BIGGEST JAG-OFF OF MY 41 FUCKIN YEARS! IT WAS "YOU GOTTA BE FUCKIN KIDDIN ME" LIKE the FAILED REUNION ATTEMPTS OF THE GREATEST AMERICAN ROCK BAND EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DUE TO PIDDLY EGO SHIT AND SUBSTANCE ABUSE!!!! JFC! JFC!! I will unfortunately have to INDEFINETLY POSTPONE MY "QUITTING DRINKING TOUR UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE!!!!!!!

[jharp84]

Elvis & Frying Dutch! - did I mispell indefinetley???????????? Let me know!!!!!! I need to pass this fuckin class!!!

[WACF]

Originally posted by vh rides again
the canadians did it.


....tattle tale......

[BITEYOASS]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
How the fuck did this thread turn from a comment on Bush's cynical, calculated hypocrisy on stem cell research to another retarded flameathon on Canadian universal health care vs. the US HMO system?

I might actually have to moderate and dump this off-topic shit since we already have a motherfucking Canadian vs. US healthcare thread. Do we not?

I'll bring it back to topic then. I can't wait for the big fundie movement to just implode on itself. This administration is fucked up beyond comprehension and living in another elitist utopian imagination. America is not No. 1 anymore, in fact it's all fucked up, just look in the damn cities and see for yourself. Yeah their pro-life all right, until it's a money making oppurtunity. If y'all wanna go to canada, best of luck to ya. As for me and some others, it's revolution time! The next republican convention will just be like Chicago in 68', just you wait.

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by BITEYOASS
... for me and some others, it's revolution time! The next republican convention will just be like Chicago in 68', just you wait.

There ya go!

I can't wait... :o

[matt19]

Originally posted by Angel
Damn, you're really jealous of us, aren't you...

Man, you must not have a life, or friends.... 19 years old and you hang out on a website full of "middle-agers"....

ROFLMMFAO!

Hey now i'm 20 :(

[Redballjets88]

if that was intended for me then yes i am 19, and i have plenty of friends, the times i am on are during the day on my days off and late at night after i have hung out with my friends

[FORD]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
How the fuck did this thread turn from a comment on Bush's cynical, calculated hypocrisy on stem cell research to another retarded flameathon on Canadian universal health care vs. the US HMO system?

I might actually have to moderate and dump this off-topic shit since we already have a motherfucking Canadian vs. US healthcare thread. Do we not?

Well..... at least it's still a healthcare topic. Stem cells and Chimpy's deliberate sandbagging of the research are connected to the healthcare debate.

[TongueNGroove]

All you liberal fucks make me sick, you bitch and moan like little bitches if ted nudgent kills a dear, but you are all heart broken if we can't use murdered humans for research...you sick fucks.

[Angel]

Actually, there are great strides being made in the cultivation of adult stem cells. Cells from the digestive track are being used for diabetes. I see no problem with in vitro fertilization of human eggs for the purpose of stem cell research.

Scientists create an embryo via in vitro fertilization, and the cells can then be harvested when the embryo is 5-7 days old. If grown properly, a few cells can produce enough to treat thousands upon thousands of people.

There are also great strides in stimulating adult neural cells to to speed up their activity and become more efficient by administering naturally occuring hormones and proteins.

Nobody is talking about using aborted fetus' for research.

[dr.rythm]

.

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by Angel
... Nobody is talking about using aborted fetus' for research.

Now THAT is something the REPuls would totally be into (it is so "them")...
and of course, they wouldn't be talking about it!

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by TongueNGroove
... liberal fucks... sick,.. bitch and... little bitches... ted nudgent... sick fucks.

True advanced Rep. speach!

[matt19]

Originally posted by TongueNGroove
All you liberal fucks make me sick, you bitch and moan like little bitches if ted nudgent kills a dear, but you are all heart broken if we can't use murdered humans for research...you sick fucks.

I don't care if he kills a deer, i'm pissed he dodged the draft and is proud of that. So do me a favor and Shut the fuck up.

[jhale667]

Originally posted by TongueNGroove
All you liberal fucks make me sick, you bitch and moan like little bitches if ted nudgent kills a dear, but you are all heart broken if we can't use murdered humans for research...you sick fucks.

You're a moron. "Murdered humans"...what a retard. Do some research on stem cells before you open your trap, m'kay? :rolleyes:

[matt19]

Originally posted by jhale667
You're a moron. "Murdered humans"...what a retard. Do some research on stem cells before you open your trap, m'kay? :rolleyes:

Exactly. ;)

[Mr. Vengeance]

To me it's absolutely disgusting that religious right, conservative, republican asswipes, with zero brain, are preventing this valuable research which could help millions of LIVING people.

But no, the idiot Bush vetoes it, because he still believes in a magical man in the sky who tells him somehow it's wrong.

Fucking jackoff. Worst pres in history!

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by Mr. Vengeance
... But no, the idiot Bush vetoes it, because he still believes in a magical man in the sky who tells him somehow it's wrong...


Probably the same "magical man in the sky" who tells him that it's right to go and kill thousands of innocents...
for money! :rolleyes:


That tape worm picks and choses whatever he wants in his own religion...
Why doesn't he create his own? "The Disciples Of Death"!

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by Mr. Vengeance
... Fucking jackoff. Worst pres in history!

By himself, he ruined the reputation of a whole nation and it's gonna take a long time for the citizens to re-build the world's vote of confidence!

Too bad some deseises don't grasp on rats!

[TongueNGroove]

Originally posted by jhale667
You're a moron. "Murdered humans"...what a retard. Do some research on stem cells before you open your trap, m'kay? :rolleyes:

So now embryos aren't human either? There has been tons of talk about using aborted fetuses and embryo's to get stem cells and that is wrong any way you slice it.

Now, if you can get them from a willing participant then that is a different story.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by TongueNGroove
So now embryos aren't human either? There has been tons of talk about using aborted fetuses and embryo's to get stem cells and that is wrong any way you slice it.

Now, if you can get them from a willing participant then that is a different story.

They're not "embryos," they're "blastocysts." If you actually had a fucking clue and had read my previous posts --you might grasp that important distinction...

And, those same blastocysts are THROWN OUT at fertility clinics!

What do you think about that?

[TongueNGroove]

You can call it whatever you want if that makes you feel better. The fact is, it is a potential human life (It already is one IMO) that would be developed for the purpose of destroying it in the name of healing another human life.

Don't hand me your argument about they are already throwing them away because that is another issue and we all know that it would only encourage more people to do it, most likely getting paid for it for the sole purpose of destroying it.

Once we venture down the slippery slope of conceiving human life for the sole purpose of destroying it (Whether it benefits other humans or not) we have opened Pandora’s box. We already let women kill their babies, but this would only encourage more of it.

What is next? Developing fully functional human bodies (Minus the head) living on life support machines that are genetically matched to us so we can harvest their organs and blood as we need them?

This is a road better left un-traveled.

[jhale667]

"We let women kill their babies" Please. Are YOU gonna adopt all the unwanted children? Gonna adopt ONE? Doubt it...;)

I've heard that (flawed) line of "potential life" thinking before...in parochial school. :rolleyes:
The problem with that logic is if taken to the zealot extreme, EVERY sperm and egg cell is a potential human life...

I can't remember which comedian it was (maybe Carlin), but he had a whole riff on the topic, which culminated in "Fuck, if every sperm cell is a potential human life, I just murdered more people than STALIN in my room last night!" :D

[FORD]

I think Tounge N Ass must be one of those Opus Dei Bill Donohue cultists that even the Pope is afraid of.

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by TongueNGroove
You can call it whatever you want if that makes you feel better. The fact is, it is a potential human life (It already is one IMO) that would be developed for the purpose of destroying it in the name of healing another human life.

Don't hand me your argument about they are already throwing them away because that is another issue and we all know that it would only encourage more people to do it, most likely getting paid for it for the sole purpose of destroying it.

Once we venture down the slippery slope of conceiving human life for the sole purpose of destroying it (Whether it benefits other humans or not) we have opened Pandora’s box. We already let women kill their babies, but this would only encourage more of it.

What is next? Developing fully functional human bodies (Minus the head) living on life support machines that are genetically matched to us so we can harvest their organs and blood as we need them?

This is a road better left un-traveled.

I don't buy the slippery slope argument at all.

It's the same as saying that using a rubber is like killing a child.

Morally I think using stem cells is about 10 rungs up the ladder from abortion.

You are talking about a dozen tiny cells not sucking a kicking baby out of a womb in a rare late abortion.

[Seshmeister]

There have been many arguments over the years on this website about abortion.

I see it as being pretty simple and I'm confused by the mess the US has got itself into on the issue compared to most Western countries where it is a non issue.

You just make it illegal to have an abortion after the baby is viable outwith it's mother's body(about 24 weeks at the moment) unless it is likely to kill the mother.

Until it is viable outwith the mother then it's part of the mother so her choice.

It's that simple.

Cheers!

:gulp:

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by TongueNGroove
The fact is, it is a potential human life (It already is one IMO) that would be developed for the purpose of destroying it in the name of healing another human life.


The fact is I have a million potential lives in my balls at the moment...

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by TongueNGroove
You can call it whatever you want if that makes you feel better. The fact is, it is a potential human life (It already is one IMO) that would be developed for the purpose of destroying it in the name of healing another human life.

But you never had a problem when it was developed for invitrofertilization, then thrown away. did you?


Don't hand me your argument about they are already throwing them away because that is another issue and we all know that it would only encourage more people to do it, most likely getting paid for it for the sole purpose of destroying it.

Yeah, it was an "issue" you didn't give a shit about until Republicans decided to make this some fucking phony-baloney right-to-(pseudo)life issue in order to pander to their religious base...


Once we venture down the slippery slope of conceiving human life for the sole purpose of destroying it (Whether it benefits other humans or not) we have opened Pandora’s box. We already let women kill their babies, but this would only encourage more of it.

"Slippery slope?" The US spends $400 billion a year to develop weapon for killing. And Women abort fetuses, not babies. There's a difference...


What is next? Developing fully functional human bodies (Minus the head) living on life support machines that are genetically matched to us so we can harvest their organs and blood as we need them?

This is a road better left un-traveled.

You mean a "clone?" I doubt they'd need to. With such technology, they could probably just grow the organ without the body. I believe that's what they're working on...

[jhale667]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
There have been many arguments over the years on this website about abortion.

I see it as being pretty simple and I'm confused by the mess the US has got itself into on the issue compared to most Western countries where it is a non issue.

You just make it illegal to have an abortion after the baby is viable outwith it's mother's body(about 24 weeks at the moment) unless it is likely to kill the mother.

Until it is viable outwith the mother then it's part of the mother so her choice.

It's that simple.

Cheers!

:gulp:

Agreed. But here's something I bet the moralist crowd hasn't considered:

Once other countries begin to outpace us (it will happen, if it hasn't already)in stem-cell technology,
said other countries will develop the cures for Parkinson's, Alzheimers, etc.
and possibly even the ability to regrow limbs/organs if what they're saying is true.

So let's say you're a US citizen. Let's then say - perish the thought- that you go blind, lose a limb in a horrible knitting accident, whatever.
Or one of your loved ones gets Parkinson's/Alzheimers/ALS.
Let's say the technology exists (through another country, but let's not even make it about expense, travel, etc.) to make you/them all better ---but the technology was derived from embryonic stem cell research.
Are you going to sit there, blind or whatever - with your moral high ground intact...
Or are you gonna have the doc grow your ass some new eyes? :D

[Baby's On Fire]

Originally posted by jhale667
"We let women kill their babies" Please. Are YOU gonna adopt all the unwanted children? Gonna adopt ONE? Doubt it...;)

I've heard that (flawed) line of "potential life" thinking before...in parochial school. :rolleyes:
The problem with that logic is if taken to the zealot extreme, EVERY sperm and egg cell is a potential human life...

I can't remember which comedian it was (maybe Carlin), but he had a whole riff on the topic, which culminated in "Fuck, if every sperm cell is a potential human life, I just murdered more people than STALIN in my room last night!" :D

Every abortion is a good abortion. There's too many people on the planet. Period.

What do you think of that?

[Baby's On Fire]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
There have been many arguments over the years on this website about abortion.

I see it as being pretty simple and I'm confused by the mess the US has got itself into on the issue compared to most Western countries where it is a non issue.

You just make it illegal to have an abortion after the baby is viable outwith it's mother's body(about 24 weeks at the moment) unless it is likely to kill the mother.

Until it is viable outwith the mother then it's part of the mother so her choice.

It's that simple.

Cheers!

:gulp:

Once again, Sesh displays his common sense. Well done. So simply put, yet so well put.

Fucking anti-abortionist holier-than-thou pricks make me sick.

Yet they support an illegal war which killed thousands by the same fucking douchebag president who thinks life is so precious.

[Baby's On Fire]

Originally posted by jhale667
Agreed. But here's something I bet the moralist crowd hasn't considered:

Once other countries begin to outpace us (it will happen, if it hasn't already)in stem-cell technology,
said other countries will develop the cures for Parkinson's, Alzheimers, etc.
and possibly even the ability to regrow limbs/organs if what they're saying is true.

So let's say you're a US citizen. Let's then say - perish the thought- that you go blind, lose a limb in a horrible knitting accident, whatever.
Or one of your loved ones gets Parkinson's/Alzheimers/ALS.
Let's say the technology exists (through another country, but let's not even make it about expense, travel, etc.) to make you/them all better ---but the technology was derived from embryonic stem cell research.
Are you going to sit there, blind or whatever - with your moral high ground intact...
Or are you gonna have the doc grow your ass some new eyes? :D

Bingo Bango. I hope it's one of these holier-than-thou ignorant religious right wing pricks who are the first to become afflicted with something that would otherwise be cured by stem cell therapy.

You're exactly right, we'll see where there moral high ground is then. But then again, Jesus will heal them.

Fact is, stem cell cultivation has NOTHING to do with killing embryos.

[Seshmeister]

I actually agree for different reasons.

Anyone that would abort is not a fit parent. Thats a gene pool that previosly would have been removed due to the poor kid being neglected and dying before we had welfare.

It's statistically been proven that abortion has reduced crime in the US.

Cheers!

:gulp:

[Baby's On Fire]

Well, I agree with almost everything you say on any topic, but to call anyone who aborts an unfit parent? C'mon Sesh.

What about a woman who is raped? What about a RESPONSIBLE person who realizes he or she will not make a good parent?

Abortion sometimes is THE responsible thing to do.

[Seshmeister]

Another thing I notice is that the vast majority of the anti abortion people seem to be male.

The argument being 'She killed my child'.

Again I find that one simple. Don't fuck a girl without contraception if you want a kid and you don't know her well enough to know she doesn't.

It's such a flawed moral high ground. You fucked some girl who turns out not to have the same beliefs as you? Well learn from that. Maybe you should either view it as a recreational sport and wear a rubber or take the fucking time to get to know the person you are wanting to have a 20 year parental relationship with.

It's just a bunch of double standards.

Cheers!

:gulp:

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by Baby's On Fire
Well, I agree with almost everything you say on any topic, but to call anyone who aborts an unfit parent? C'mon Sesh.

What about a woman who is raped? What about a RESPONSIBLE person who realizes he or she will not make a good parent?

Abortion sometimes is THE responsible thing to do.

Sorry I missed the qualifiers of rape and 'unfit at that time'.

Cheers!

:gulp:

[Baby's On Fire]

Once again, you nailed it.

But they're not just males Sesh....they're religious males.

Don't you know that because they believe in Jesus (and the Tooth Fairy) that it gives them the right to tell everyone else what to do?

And that includes the Catholic priests engaging in buggery....because every life is so precious.

[Seshmeister]

*waits for the burst rubber argument*...:)

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
Another thing I notice is that the vast majority of the anti abortion people seem to be male.

The argument being 'She killed my child'.

Again I find that one simple. Don't fuck a girl without contraception if you want a kid and you don't know her well enough to know she doesn't.

It's such a flawed moral high ground. You fucked some girl who turns out not to have the same beliefs as you? Well learn from that. Maybe you should either view it as a recreational sport and wear a rubber or take the fucking time to get to know the person you are wanting to have a 20 year parental relationship with.

It's just a bunch of double standards.

Cheers!

:gulp:

Or, as George Carlin once said, "notice that most of the women against abortion are ones you wouldn't want to fuck anyway?":D

[Baby's On Fire]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
*waits for the burst rubber argument*...:)

Nope. It's God's will.

God decides everything, and we must all live with it.

[jhale667]

Originally posted by Baby's On Fire
Every abortion is a good abortion. There's too many people on the planet. Period.

What do you think of that?

No argument there...I've said it before, I've yet to hear ONE anti-abortion type offer anything on overpopulation, world hunger
(or how stopping abortion would possibly benefit either problem)etc. ...but y'know, anything about taking care of people who are HERE already? :rolleyes:

[Seshmeister]

All my pro choice logic shit and whatever it doesn't mean I always agree with the decisions.

For example I was the best man at a couples wedding. He had a really good job he was starting on at least $60k and she was on over $30k, they were mid 30s and his Dad was a millionaire. After 6 months she gets pregnant. They decided to abort because it was not in their plans financially because they wanted her to work for a year before having a kids. They had a bit of trouble finding someone to do it but found someone by around 16 weeks. A year afterwards they then decide that they are ready and have a kid. His Dad buys them a $40k German station wagon.

I know it's probably just unusual anecdotal shit but it's maybe made me a bit more harsh on abortion people than I should be.

Anyhoo either way it's up to them.

Cheers!

:gulp:

[Baby's On Fire]

You are right. It's up to them but a scumbag move nonetheless.

They should have been responsible to begin with. Just because I am pro-abortion doesn't mean I don't believe in being responsible.

[jhale667]

Originally posted by Baby's On Fire
You are right. It's up to them but a scumbag move nonetheless.

They should have been responsible to begin with. Just because I am pro-abortion doesn't mean I don't believe in being responsible.

Hear, hear. :)

[FORD]

Dorothy Walker Bush should have had an abortion :(

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by Baby's On Fire
... Just because I am pro-abortion doesn't mean I don't believe in being responsible.

Same here... abortion shouldn't be used as a casual contraceptive!

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by FORD
Dorothy Walker Bush should have had an abortion :(

That, I think eaven the ones that want to rule women's lives (here, they dare calling themselves "pro-life") would agree with!

[matt19]

Originally posted by blonddgirl777
Same here... abortion shouldn't be used as a casual contraceptive!

Exactly!

[TongueNGroove]

Originally posted by jhale667
"We let women kill their babies" Please. Are YOU gonna adopt all the unwanted children? Gonna adopt ONE? Doubt it...;)

I've heard that (flawed) line of "potential life" thinking before...in parochial school. :rolleyes:
The problem with that logic is if taken to the zealot extreme, EVERY sperm and egg cell is a potential human life...

I can't remember which comedian it was (maybe Carlin), but he had a whole riff on the topic, which culminated in "Fuck, if every sperm cell is a potential human life, I just murdered more people than STALIN in my room last night!" :D

Typical liberal thinking....

First of all, I shouldn't have to adopt any child. The women’s right to choose ended when spread her legs. In cases of rape it is really hard because although the women didn't choose, you still can't blame it on the child.... Very tough topic that is.

Second of all, sperm and eggs are not humans until they meet. Once the sperm and egg have met and have begun cell division it is a life. So don't worry, you can jack off all you want and not feel guilty.

[TongueNGroove]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
I don't buy the slippery slope argument at all.

It's the same as saying that using a rubber is like killing a child.

Morally I think using stem cells is about 10 rungs up the ladder from abortion.

You are talking about a dozen tiny cells not sucking a kicking baby out of a womb in a rare late abortion.

Using a condom is not killing anything. The sperm and egg never meet..there is no life there to kill. It is "Prevention". If you wanted to go that far you might as well say a women kills a child every time she has a period, which is obviously rediculous.

[TongueNGroove]

Originally posted by FORD
I think Tounge N Ass must be one of those Opus Dei Bill Donohue cultists that even the Pope is afraid of.

I dub thee "Fraud"....from hence forth yee shall be known as Fraud, since most of the shit you spout has no basis and is absolute BS. And you wonder why there aren't many radio and TV talk shows that spout your gibberish...just look at Rosie O’Donnell. The American people won't put up with your country hating propaganda.....get the fuck out of this country if you don't like it, move to China or North Korea or Iran or any of the other countries you defend on a daily basis you treasonous bastard.

[TongueNGroove]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
There have been many arguments over the years on this website about abortion.

I see it as being pretty simple and I'm confused by the mess the US has got itself into on the issue compared to most Western countries where it is a non issue.

You just make it illegal to have an abortion after the baby is viable outwith it's mother's body(about 24 weeks at the moment) unless it is likely to kill the mother.

Until it is viable outwith the mother then it's part of the mother so her choice.

It's that simple.

Cheers!

:gulp:

Technology gets better every day. My daughter has lupus and her pregnancy did not go well. She had forced labor in the second trimester...before your so called 24 week deadline. I now have a grandson that I wouldn't have had without technology.

Your so called "Viable Time Limit" holds no water. Or should we change the law every time there is a change in technology?

[TongueNGroove]

Originally posted by jhale667
No argument there...I've said it before, I've yet to hear ONE anti-abortion type offer anything on overpopulation, world hunger
(or how stopping abortion would possibly benefit either problem)etc. ...but y'know, anything about taking care of people who are HERE already? :rolleyes:

It is real funny how you mention "over population" in your argument for abortion, yet your whole point in this thread is to kill life in order to make people live longer. Do you not see how confused you really are?

If you are worried about over population then let the sick and elderly die, don't kill the unborn to save them.

[TongueNGroove]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
But you never had a problem when it was developed for invitrofertilization, then thrown away. did you?



Yeah, it was an "issue" you didn't give a shit about until Republicans decided to make this some fucking phony-baloney right-to-(pseudo)life issue in order to pander to their religious base...



"Slippery slope?" The US spends $400 billion a year to develop weapon for killing. And Women abort fetuses, not babies. There's a difference...



You mean a "clone?" I doubt they'd need to. With such technology, they could probably just grow the organ without the body. I believe that's what they're working on...

To be honest, I knew nothing about them throwing away fertilized eggs untill now. And yes I am against it. Human life is not something you should create and destroy as you please..

[TongueNGroove]

Originally posted by Baby's On Fire
You are right. It's up to them but a scumbag move nonetheless.

They should have been responsible to begin with. Just because I am pro-abortion doesn't mean I don't believe in being responsible.

You are a moron.... a few posts above that you said, "Every abortion is a good one"... You are godless and heartless and basicaly idiotic.. The real definition of a liberal. You are doing your party proud.

[Angel]

As usual, all I can say is thank God I live in the country where stem cells were first identified, and where there are leaders in the research!!

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by TongueNGroove
Your so called "Viable Time Limit" holds no water. Or should we change the law every time there is a change in technology?

That's exactly what you do.

In the UK it is legal for termination to be carried out up to 24 weeks of pregnancy, but most hospitals and clinics will not consider termination beyond 18 to 20 weeks. There is a new ammendment to the act going through to lower 24 weeks in line with that.

[FORD]

ToungeNDoodoo has worked really hard to become the #1 right wing dumbass on this board, though Chickenhawk Schultz is a strong challenger with his endless moronic Zionfascist cheerleading.

Who will take Big Bad Brian's title away from him? Or will Brian mount a comeback and reassert his conservative idiocy?

[Eddie's Booze]

Originally posted by FORD
ToungeNDoodoo has worked really hard to become the #1 right wing dumbass on this board, though Chickenhawk Schultz is a strong challenger with his endless moronic Zionfascist cheerleading.

Who will take Big Bad Brian's title away from him? Or will Brian mount a comeback and reassert his conservative idiocy?

Let me guess...You are the Voice of Reason???

:rolleyes:

[jhale667]

Originally posted by TongueNGroove
It is real funny how you mention "over population" in your argument for abortion, yet your whole point in this thread is to kill life in order to make people live longer. Do you not see how confused you really are?



No, you missed my point due to your OWN confusion. You cry about abortion yet there are millions of hungry, homeless, or unwanted children in the world ALREADY. You don't give a shit about them, yet you want to ensure that their numbers increase....

[TongueNGroove]

Originally posted by jhale667
No, you missed my point due to your OWN confusion. You cry about abortion yet there are millions of hungry, homeless, or unwanted children in the world ALREADY. You don't give a shit about them, yet you want to ensure that their numbers increase....

Are you trying to say it is better to be dead than "unwanted" or hungry?

How about this, these women who are spitting out these kids they don't want stop spreading their legs? How about using birth control to prevent the pregnancy in the first place? No....those aren't options huh? Your answer is to just kill it. Your answer to birth control is to get pregnant then kill it.....wow.

You feel so bad for these kids that you want to kill them before they are born? How can I argue with that logic.

[jhale667]

Originally posted by TongueNGroove
Are you trying to say it is better to be dead than "unwanted" or hungry?

YES.



How about this, these women who are spitting out these kids they don't want stop spreading their legs? How about using birth control to prevent the pregnancy in the first place? No....those aren't options huh? Your answer is to just kill it. Your answer to birth control is to get pregnant then kill it.....wow.

You feel so bad for these kids that you want to kill them before they are born? How can I argue with that logic.

What, so you're one of those rare anti-abortionists that isn't anti-birth control too? When did I say I was against birth control?!?! I've said it before (and agreed with someone who already said it in this thread, dumbass), people should be more responsible. But it's idiotic for a bunch of guys to be arguing on a message board about whether or not WE should be able to control a women's uterus. So unless YOU'RE willing to carry some 'unwanted' fetuses to term for some women, and then plan to RAISE them too, STFU.

[Baby's On Fire]

Originally posted by TongueNGroove
Typical liberal thinking....

First of all, I shouldn't have to adopt any child. The women’s right to choose ended when spread her legs. In cases of rape it is really hard because although the women didn't choose, you still can't blame it on the child.... Very tough topic that is.

Second of all, sperm and eggs are not humans until they meet. Once the sperm and egg have met and have begun cell division it is a life. So don't worry, you can jack off all you want and not feel guilty.

You just sunk your own boat, DOUCHEBAG.

Stem cell cultivation begins with the embryonic CELLS (not the embryo itself). Every woman "aborts" hundreds of embryonic cells per month. So cultivating stem cells has NOTHING TO DO WITH ABORTION.

But, being a right wing conservative religious lunatic, in your eyes every woman must be a murderer, because her body aborts unneeded embryonic cells, right?

Stem cell research has nothing whatsoever with "killing" embryos.

[Baby's On Fire]

Originally posted by TongueNGroove
You are a moron.... a few posts above that you said, "Every abortion is a good one"... You are godless and heartless and basicaly idiotic.. The real definition of a liberal. You are doing your party proud.

A don't have "a party" you fucking idiot. You just blew your cover....everything with you fucking conservatives has to do with politics,....us versus them....right? Hate liberals at all costs, even your own soul.

Evey abortion is a good abortion, granted it is not for a cop-out. The woman has the fianl say, every fuccking time. But you rleigious assholes don't like freedom of choice...it's all about controlling other people....that's what religion is all about.

[Baby's On Fire]

Originally posted by TongueNGroove
Are you trying to say it is better to be dead than "unwanted" or hungry?

How about this, these women who are spitting out these kids they don't want stop spreading their legs? How about using birth control to prevent the pregnancy in the first place? No....those aren't options huh? Your answer is to just kill it. Your answer to birth control is to get pregnant then kill it.....wow.

You feel so bad for these kids that you want to kill them before they are born? How can I argue with that logic.


Go ask the children starving and dying a HORRIBLE death in Africa....or maybe go ask the next baby found tossed into a dumpster....or semi-flushed down the toilet in the high school girls washroom.

What a total FUCKING IDIOT you are. And on the subject of stem cell therapy, go ask the person who literally cannot twitch a muscle and who is going to choke to death due to ALS..................If there's any justice in this World, a douchebag like you will be afflicted. And see if your fucking ignroant tune changes.

But as long as there's billions of overpopulation and unwanted babies...no fucking problem, right?

Cuz "God" says so.

You piece of trash.

[Baby's On Fire]

Originally posted by jhale667
YES.



What, so you're one of those rare anti-abortionists that isn't anti-birth control too? When did I say I was against birth control?!?! I've said it before (and agreed with someone who already said it in this thread, dumbass), people should be more responsible. But it's idiotic for a bunch of guys to be arguing on a message board about whether or not WE should be able to control a women's uterus. So unless YOU'RE willing to carry some 'unwanted' fetuses to term for some women, and then plan to RAISE them too, STFU.


You just owned this brainless fucking bitch.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by TongueNGroove
Using a condom is not killing anything. The sperm and egg never meet..there is no life there to kill. It is "Prevention". If you wanted to go that far you might as well say a women kills a child every time she has a period, which is obviously rediculous.

But the sperm is alive, is it not? Certainly by definition of blastocysts it is...

Masturbation is murder! :mad:

[matt19]

Originally posted by jhale667
YES.



What, so you're one of those rare anti-abortionists that isn't anti-birth control too? When did I say I was against birth control?!?! I've said it before (and agreed with someone who already said it in this thread, dumbass), people should be more responsible. But it's idiotic for a bunch of guys to be arguing on a message board about whether or not WE should be able to control a women's uterus. So unless YOU'RE willing to carry some 'unwanted' fetuses to term for some women, and then plan to RAISE them too, STFU.

LMMFAO! :D

[jhale667]

Originally posted by Baby's On Fire
You just owned this brainless fucking bitch.

I'm here to help. :D

[FORD]

Originally posted by Eddie's Booze
Let me guess...You are the Voice of Reason???

:rolleyes:

Stay out of this, PandaFucker. You aren't even going to be around long enough to get a vote.

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
... Masturbation is murder! :mad:

If a masturbating man is a murderer... then, the one that swallows is a canibal ??? :lol:






Sorry... wrong forum! :o

[BITEYOASS]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
But the sperm is alive, is it not? Certainly by definition of blastocysts it is...

Masturbation is murder! :mad:

Well if masturbation is muder, then call me jack the gripper, I mean ripper! :D

[FORD]

Since the right wingers have turned this into a so-called "pro life" rant, and especially since Spurs is quoting Margaret Sanger in his signature, I figured I'd throw in this document I just stumbled across........

http://www.randomhouse.com/doubleday/thefamily/media/thefamily_document007a.pdf

Anyone notice any familiar names on that letterhead? ;)

Culture of life, my ass!

[jharp84]

Originally posted by TongueNGroove
All you liberal fucks make me sick, you bitch and moan like little bitches if ted nudgent kills a dear, but you are all heart broken if we can't use murdered humans for research...you sick fucks.

Not a liberal here! Just do not agree w/current "head of state" on anything!!! Also I am a ted nugent fan!!

[jharp84]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Baby's On Fire
There's too many people on the planet. Period.

This is a TRUE FACT!!! Something has to be done about this!! It is now in ridiculous numbers!! However, I still believe in saving the people here with stem cells if possible and putting a limit on future birth! I.E China in the 70's??? 2 children per marriage??? It will never work! But this planet is overpopulated to a means never imaginable!!!

[Nickdfresh]

Bumping...

[FORD]

Uh, any particular reason why? Or did you just start the New Years celebration a little early :bottle:

[Little Texan]

Dorothy Walker Bush should have had an abortion :(

Man, just think of how much better shape this country would be in, how many lives would have been spared, and how much needless suffering would have been prevented had that happened?

What's with all the necroposting lately?

[hambon4lif]

What's with all the necroposting lately?Nick seems to be a bit reflective, or having a 'moment of clarity'.
With tonight being New Years Eve and all, I suspect it will pass within a few hours, if not sooner.:beers8:

(it is one of the better arguments I've seen here, though)

[Nickdfresh]

Uh, any particular reason why? Or did you just start the New Years celebration a little early :bottle:

Definitely started it early, but I did have a reason I'd rather not state publicly...Happy New Years Ford, and all... :beers8:

[Angel]

Definitely started it early, but I did have a reason I'd rather not state publicly...Happy New Years Ford, and all... :beers8:I hope this doesn't mean that you need stem cells, Nick. Happy New Year, buddy! Long time no speak!!!

[Nickdfresh]

I hope this doesn't mean that you need stem cells, Nick. Happy New Year, buddy! Long time no speak!!!

Nope. Just brain cells. :guzzle: Happy New Year to you and yours... :)

[Va Beach VH Fan]

Funny how the wife of Ronald Reagan is a staunch supporter of stem cell research.....

Guess if a loved one is inflicted with a disease that stem cells could potentially help and/or cure, they support it....

[FORD]

Kinda similar to how the Reagans never gave a shit about AIDS, until their old Hollywood pal Rock Hudson got it. And one of their own White House hacks named Terry Dolan. Granted, they still thought it was "God punishing the queers", but at least they finally admitted it existed.

[Nitro Express]

I think a lot of people are just scared that the demand of stem cells could create a horrid ethical situation to where we purpose fully create and farm human fetuses just to get the cells. It's like abortion. On one hand it can be horribly abused and on the other it's the right thing to do. You can't legislate the type of morality needed in such decisions. All laws do is create a big umbrella of yes or no and that doesn't fly when individuals and their doctors need to make the hard decisions. It's one reason I want the government out of that kind of decision making period. If the government wants to make healthcare more affordable fine but I don't want them involved in what should be personal decisions between a person, their family, and their physician. The government isn't worthy enough to belong there.

What cracks me up about these right wing fools is they claim they want the government off our backs but they want it involved in our health, religious, and family decisions where it doesn't belong. Before the motto of this country was In God We Trust on the money it was Mind Your Business. That was originally on the US currency and I believe Ben Franklin came up with it. I think we should go back to it.

[Nitro Express]

Kinda similar to how the Reagans never gave a shit about AIDS, until their old Hollywood pal Rock Hudson got it. And one of their own White House hacks named Terry Dolan. Granted, they still thought it was "God punishing the queers", but at least they finally admitted it existed.

I was in college when AIDS was the big story and our biology professor was going on how there would be no cure and how it would bankrupt insurance companies and nations. Hindsight being 20/20 it hasn't been the black plague it was made out to be. Insurance companies now have bought enough politicians that they are the government and healthcare system. If you are sitting at the top of the government or these health corporations things couldn't be better. For the average citizen they are getting reamed with no real solutions but political lies on how actually screwing us more is a solution.

There still is no cure for AIDS but I don't see the population being taken down because of it. The obituaries aren't over flowing. More people still die of cancer or diabetes. Eating your self to death is a bigger killer in this country. Maybe it's different in Africa. That seems to be where most the AIDS carnage has been. But it isn't what they said it would be in the 80's when everyone was freaking from fear.

[Nickdfresh]

It's pretty different in Africa...

[Nitro Express]

The old saying of who is going to save Africa from the Africans? I just know from people who go there it takes a whole fucking month to prepare for the trip of going to certain parts of it. It must be a crazy place. I've been all around South and Central America and nothing that I couldn't get my shit together in a week to go venture to there.

[Nickdfresh]

Sort of a blame game, maybe blaming the victims in a series of artificial nation-states born out of European imperialism, and American slavery...

[Seshmeister]

Just to get this in context.

http://www.avert.org/media/content/graphs/GlobalGraph.jpg

A fucking insane amount of people still die of AIDS each year and a lot of that is down to sick religious superstition. 3000 people die on 9-11 many of whom were probably not hugely nice people being investment bankers and so forth and it's Armageddon start 2 wars stuff.

Just sayin...

[Nitro Express]

I just never hear of HIV/AIDS anymore. In the early 90's it seemed all a sudden a few people I knew died from it but then after that nobody I knew or knew of seemed to die of it. From my perspective it's like it fell from the earth. I don't know why. People being more careful but I really doubt that. Probably better drugs. There probably are more HIV positive people than we think and the stats probably read low because people are going to deny that they have it when asked.

[Nitro Express]

I just never hear of HIV/AIDS anymore. In the early 90's it seemed all a sudden a few people I knew died from it but then after that nobody I knew or knew of seemed to die of it. From my perspective it's like it fell from the earth. I don't know why. People being more careful but I really doubt that. Probably better drugs. There probably are more HIV positive people than we think and the stats probably read low because people are going to deny that they have it when asked.

[Nitro Express]

We have some friends who lived in Nambia for a couple of years. They said in general the people were nice but what drove them nuts was the constant theft. Even if there was enough to go around someone would try and hoard it all. Everyone was out for themselves. If you look at nations that thrive they have leadership that sets forth long-term goals and the population gets behind it. Once you start the game of just robbing each other the nation goes nowhere.