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DLR'sCock
05-09-2004, 02:34 PM
http://www.news-leader.com/today/0508-Worldcalls-82509.html




World Calls for Rumsfeld's Resignation Over Abuse
By Robert Barr
The Associated Press

Saturday 08 May 2004

Outrage over Iraq prison photos increase pressure, condemnation of U.S. actions.

London - The image of a U.S. soldier holding a leash attached to a naked Iraqi prisoner brought more condemnation of the United States on Friday, and some calls for the resignation of Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld.

The picture of the soldier, Spc. Lynndie England, appeared on several front pages in Britain. "No sadistic movie could outdo the damage of this image," reporter Robert Fisk wrote in The Independent newspaper.

Much comment focused on Rumsfeld.

"The departure of the Pentagon's bellicose hawk would certainly be good news because it would give the moderate wing, represented by (Secretary of State Colin) Powell, an opportunity to reorient U.S. foreign policy toward multilateralism," Madrid's El Mundo newspaper said.

"Responsibility for what has occurred needs to be taken, and to be seen to be taken at the highest level, too," Britain's Economist magazine said. "It is plain what that means. The secretary of defense, Donald Rumsfeld, should resign."

The Sueddeutsche Zeitung said Rumsfeld's resignation "would be a sign of the humility he has previously lacked," but insufficient to address the crisis.

"The political damage for the United States is so immense that even Donald Rumsfeld's resignation would not offset it. But a political sacrifice would be an especially credible signal that the American administration is serious about its protestations and is upholding the values it is trying to impart in Iraq," the newspaper said.

Though not joining the resignation calls, Berliner Zeitung commented on Rumsfeld's description of the abuse as "un-American."

"It speaks of the presumptuousness with which the Bush administration views the rest of the world. It is that consciousness of 'God's own nation,' the unique and chosen nation that has the right to proselytize other nations with its idea of morality and law, democracy and justice," Berliner Zeitung said.

The scandal had provoked a cry of despair from Boris Johnson, a Conservative Party member of Britain's Parliament who supported the war.

"How could the American Army have been so crass, so arrogant, so brutal as to behave in this way?" Johnson wrote in The Daily Telegraph.

"Was this really the operation I had voted for? Did I really think, when the House of Commons voted to support the American action on March 18, 2003, that it would be carried out with such boneheaded stupidity?"




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Go to Original

Rumsfeld Finds Himself in a Sorry Mess
By Alan Freeman
Globe and Mail, Canada

Saturday 08 May 2004

Washington - Supremely self-confident, unabashedly ideological and frequently abrasive, Donald Rumsfeld is not the kind of man who easily admits to being sorry.

The 71-year-old U.S. Defence Secretary did just that yesterday before a Senate committee investigating abuse of Iraqi prisoners by U.S. troops. He clearly didn't enjoy it.

In more than four decades in and out of Washington's corridors of power, the man known as Rummy has developed a reputation as a single-minded political operator who brooks no criticism and has little time for second thoughts.

"He's the most ruthless man I ever met," former secretary of state Henry Kissinger said in an oft-quoted remark. "And I mean that as a compliment."

One of Rumsfeld's Rules, the booklet-sized collection of quotes and guiding principles from the Defence Secretary's years in politics, reads: "If you are not criticized, you are not doing your job." Another says: "If in doubt, don't. If still in doubt, do what's right."

Such hard-nosed attitudes made him popular among right-wingers and a star of the Bush administration. But for many abroad, he came to personify the arrogance of U.S. foreign policy.

When France and Germany refused to endorse Washington's plan to invade Iraq last year, it was Mr. Rumsfeld who dismissed both as part of "old Europe," in contrast to the "new Europe" including U.S. allies such as Poland and Italy.

He later clashed with his own commanders over strategy in Iraq, arguing that U.S. success in Afghanistan proved that similar campaigns could be conducted with smaller numbers of troops than the generals wanted. While the strategy initially worked, the insurgency has stretched U.S. forces and forced Mr. Rumsfeld to go back repeatedly for more money and soldiers.

A native of Chicago, he graduated from Princeton University, where he was captain of the college wrestling team. After three years in the navy, he worked on the campaigns of two friends who were running for the Republicans. Then, at the age of 29, he ran for Congress and won.

As a right-wing Republican, he became close to president Richard Nixon, first heading the Office of Economic Opportunity and then heading to Brussels as U.S. ambassador to NATO.

After Mr. Nixon resigned, he was appointed chief of staff to president Gerald Ford and in 1975, at only 43, was named defence secretary, the youngest man ever to hold the job. In his second round at the same job, under President George W. Bush, he became the oldest person in the post.

In the intervening 25 years, Mr. Rumsfeld managed to spin through the revolving door between the bureaucracy and the private sector on a couple of occasions, becoming chairman of a pharmaceutical company and a high-tech firm - and a wealthy man.

He rapidly aborted a 1988 bid for the presidency. But rather than retire with his millions to his New Mexico ranch, Mr. Rumsfeld preferred to return to government in 2001 with his conservative friends, Vice-President Dick Cheney and Pentagon aides Paul Wolfowitz and Richard Perle.

Even more than President Bush, he became synonymous with Washington's war on terror and its occupation of Iraq, appearing in almost daily news briefings with his original, often entertaining use of the English language.

Asked about the fate of al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden, Mr. Rumsfeld responded, "We do know, of certain knowledge, that [he] is either in Afghanistan or in some other country or dead."

The Plain English Campaign in Britain awarded him its annual Foot in Mouth Award last year for the following statement: "Reports that say that something hasn't happened are always interesting to me, because as we know, there are known knows; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns - the ones we don't know we don't know."

The quips were less forthcoming yesterday - perhaps because he knew his job was on the line.

-------

Viking
05-09-2004, 09:28 PM
The rest of the world can Hug My Root.

Wayne L.
05-11-2004, 08:33 AM
I don't think Donald Rumsfeld should resign because of the so called Iraqi abuse scandal which is highly overblown in the media even though President Bush could lose this presidential election & become a one term president like his father.

Seshmeister
05-11-2004, 08:48 AM
Rumsfeld is evil and arrogant.

You can tell within seconds of an interview.

Look at his eyes. Look at the disdain he has for anyone who questions him.

Nasty unelected bastard.

Cheers!

:gulp:

High Life Man
05-11-2004, 11:37 AM
Hey rest of the world, FUCK YOU!

DLR_EngineRoom
05-11-2004, 11:44 AM
Rumsfeld doesn't need to resign, nor should he be forced to morally. He didn't tell those bastards in Iraq to behave like that. What he should do is personally see that each and every one of those bastards go to trial, just like Hussein. Just because prisoners can be scum, doesn't mean you treat them less than human.

fanofdave
05-11-2004, 11:53 AM
We wanted world support for the war and didn't get it.
Now the "world" wants Rumsfeld to resign?
Hey "Rest of the World" : Suck my cock and balls
you whiny pussies.

Rumsfeld's resignation won't solve the problem
or make what happened go away. Its a political
pissing contest, that's all. Let the military court
run its course.

FORD
05-11-2004, 11:59 AM
http://www.komotv.com/stories/31168.htm

Ken Schram Commentary: Where's The Accountability?

May 10, 2004

By Ken Schram

SEATTLE - You know what they say rolls down hill?

Well, it's gathering speed.

So far, seven soldiers will be court martialed because of the abuse of prisoners in Iraq.

Of those seven, do you know how many are officers?

None.

Not a single. friggin'. one.

Oh sure, a couple of officers have had letters of reprimand placed in their personnel files, but that pales in comparison to the possibility of a dishonorable discharge coupled with hard prison time.

We've all seen the pictures.

We've all read about the cruel and sadistic treatment.

We've learned how the Red Cross says it actually observed officers mistreating prisoners.

But so far the minions are the only ones being prosecuted.

Don't get me wrong, "following orders" is not a defense, and the enlisted people who are responsible should be court martialed.

But so should the people in charge.

Instead, we get the President saying the Secretary of Defense is doing a "superb" job.

The guy at the top gets praised while the generals, colonels, majors and captains get a free pass.

It may defy gravity, never mind conventional politics, but some of what rolls down hill needs to roll back up, to get those responsible who think they're safe up there.

High Life Man
05-11-2004, 02:36 PM
The Generals and Colonels are not "going to get a free pass."

Did you know that the trials under the UCMJ have a 97% conviction rate?

These dumbass Army dogs should pay - and they will. But don't let the actions of a few stupid fuckheads become your perception of the majority of our soldiers, sailors and Marines.

FORD
05-11-2004, 02:46 PM
Originally posted by High Life Man
The Generals and Colonels are not "going to get a free pass."

Did you know that the trials under the UCMJ have a 97% conviction rate?

These dumbass Army dogs should pay - and they will. But don't let the actions of a few stupid fuckheads become your perception of the majority of our soldiers, sailors and Marines.

It's not at all my perception of the majority. My perception is that something is very fucking wrong if this is even the minority.

Since the whole purpose of military brainwashing/bootcamp/basic training is to remove the individual and create a "combat machine", then it's reasonable to assume these fucking mutants got the same training as anyone else who entered the military at the same time. So what made them into fascist criminal lawbreaking torturers?

This question demands an answer, because their superiors - and that means all the way up the ladder - had better be making damn sure that this does NOT become the norm.

ELVIS
05-11-2004, 02:53 PM
Originally posted by FORD
So what made them into fascist criminal lawbreaking torturers?



The had liberal parents...

FORD
05-11-2004, 02:55 PM
Originally posted by ELVIS
The had liberal parents...

In West Virginia?? I doubt that.

High Life Man
05-11-2004, 04:46 PM
Originally posted by FORD
making damn sure that this does NOT become the norm.

It's not.

I'm sure there is someone you went to high school with that has since murdered or raped or robbed someone. Does that mean the entire system is flawed?

And nobody is brainwashed during their boot.

BigBadBrian
05-11-2004, 04:47 PM
Originally posted by FORD
In West Virginia?? I doubt that.

Klansman Robert Byrd isn't a liberal? Hmmm?

Roth & Roll
05-11-2004, 07:15 PM
Bush and Rumsfield wanted this war.
They are accountable.

Mr GrumpyAss
05-11-2004, 07:59 PM
doesn't look good for the U.S. Can't wait to see how damage control cleans this one up. But in all seriousness, how did the Iraqis treat the U.S POW's. tortured them, put them in unsanitary conditions, killed them,paraded them on T.V. Now I understand that that the U.S is suppose to be the more mature and civilized country. But they got caught abusing the Iraqi prisoners,so be it. Now the world is in an uproar calling for resignations, that it was wrong and inhuman and so on. Funny thing is,that it's probably the same people that wanted all the Afgans dead when the towers fell. And now the "poor"iraqi people are so angry that they snatch an American,make him read a statement on T.V or weblink, then chop his fuckin head off for all the world to see! Now in my opinion, some U.S soldiers getting there picture taken with some strung up naked abused Iraqis is fuck all compared to the shit they do to us! Bottom line U.S troops and cololition troops are doing a hell of a job over there,stay off the media radar. We shouldn't have to stoop to there level anyway. Besides the sooner the war is over,the sooner we can get better gas prices LOL had to put a funny in.

FORD
05-11-2004, 08:38 PM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Klansman Robert Byrd isn't a liberal? Hmmm?

No, he's not liberal. He just makes more fucking sense than 90% of (Neo)Congress the last three years. And he hasn't been a "Klansman" since before your father was born, so get over it.

Big Troubles
05-11-2004, 08:39 PM
Originally posted by Roth & Roll
Bush and Rumsfield wanted this war.
They are accountable.

Yup. Agreed. The problem is now, they are shuffling blame or not looking inwards for an answer, instead saying the tiresome "the actions of a few dont reflect America as a whole".
Lets ask the Iraqi people what they think should happen for a change? I mean, "we" did just *clearing throat* liberate them afterall.
I think they deserve a chance to speak. Oh right. June 30th is the liberation date right, or will that change?

FORD
05-11-2004, 08:44 PM
Originally posted by Big Troubles
Oh right. June 30th is the liberation date right, or will that change?

They might make a show of turning over the government to Iraqis, so Junior can take that as a "win" into his campaign. But there will still be troops on the ground and PNAC puppets in Baghdad.

Big Troubles
05-11-2004, 08:47 PM
No doubt. I think it will be years before Iraq has complete control over their Gov. You got to admit, this is not part of the plan that the US envisioned...Doesn't look good. I wonder if Germany and France are smiling?

Mr GrumpyAss
05-11-2004, 09:22 PM
There will always be an American presence in Iraq. And I agree with Ford,it will be nothing more than a political stunt to help the Bush campaign, by turning over the government to the Iraqis. We all know the U.S is going to still have a huge part of it.

Big Troubles
05-11-2004, 09:58 PM
"Next stop Vietnam, surprise the fuck out of those people!" LOL

High Life Man
05-12-2004, 10:20 AM
Originally posted by Big Troubles
"Next stop Vietnam, surprise the fuck out of those people!" LOL

First off, your quote makes little sense.

Second, before you start flailing the "Vietnam" comparison, do a little research. The two are nothing like each other.

Big Troubles
05-12-2004, 12:23 PM
Originally posted by High Life Man
First off, your quote makes little sense.

Second, before you start flailing the "Vietnam" comparison, do a little research. The two are nothing like each other.

Oh my God, you are mentally challenged. No sharp pencils for this kid! Listen little gaffer, that quote was in QUOTATIONS, meaning someone else said it. Denis Leary to be exact. It wasn't a reflection on this or ANY topic. Just some light humor. Thats what the "LOL" means afterwards. Go back to eating paste ok?

You asking me to do research on anything under the sun, makes as much sense as the carp telling the worm and hook what to do. So instead, hows about you do some research on what it is you are reading before you spew. Seriously, it gets messy 'round these parts. We don't need more drool. Whether it comes from the corner of your mouth "Freddy Joe" or someone elses.

Ah. That felt invigorating. :D

Big Troubles
05-12-2004, 12:26 PM
I just noticed you were from Milwaukee! :D Using Pee Wee Herman as an avatar and hailing from Milwaukee, probably means you should eat more paste and do more drooling. You know, just to keep up with the in-laws. Tool. LMAO

famac
05-12-2004, 12:42 PM
The Iraqi prison torture was certainly a horrible thing.

But beheading a dude and posting it on the internet is far more savage and deplorable - that's been done twice.

So is making people jump out of a 100 story building to their deaths, with the alternative being burning to death.

War is a nasty thing, and people do crazy stuff in difficult situations. But before we get too upset about what some creeps did in a prison in Iraq, we should remember the people they were doing it to are blowing up our boys, and would blow up our families given the opportunity.

I'll take laying on top of some dudes naked before getting beheaded and day of the week.

John Ashcroft
05-12-2004, 01:11 PM
Interesting that almost 70% of Americans think Rummy should stay.

Oh yeah, that's a big old American "Fuck off!" to our European "allies".

Please don't misunderstand.

High Life Man
05-12-2004, 01:24 PM
Originally posted by Big Troubles
that quote was in QUOTATIONS, meaning someone else said it. Denis Leary to be exact

Hey retard, if you're going to pick a Leary quote, at least pick one that's funny...or pertinent.


hows about you do some research on what it is you are reading before you spew.

And you do the same. Tell me, how exactly does this war relate or compare to Vietnam?

High Life Man
05-12-2004, 01:29 PM
Originally posted by Big Troubles
I just noticed you were from Milwaukee! :D Using Pee Wee Herman as an avatar and hailing from Milwaukee, probably means you should eat more paste and do more drooling. You know, just to keep up with the in-laws. Tool. LMAO

Wow, that's fucking brilliant. Great to see you can't argue your point without making idiotic personal attacks.

And yes, I do live in Milwaukee, and yes, I do have Pee Wee Herman as my avatar. Fuck off on both accounts.

Keep living in your little world of denial. Someday you'll see the light, but by then the speeding car will probably be too close for you to jump out of the way.

Touche.

Big Troubles
05-12-2004, 01:38 PM
Originally posted by High Life Man
Wow, that's fucking brilliant. Great to see you can't argue your point without making idiotic personal attacks.

And yes, I do live in Milwaukee, and yes, I do have Pee Wee Herman as my avatar. Fuck off on both accounts.

Keep living in your little world of denial. Someday you'll see the light, but by then the speeding car will probably be too close for you to jump out of the way.

Touche.


That's it? :confused: But then again..."Milwaukee". Gotcha.
What world of denial am I living in exactly? Or is that just a clever string of words you've managed to muster together in between "paste projects"? And i would've picked a funnier quote from Leary, but quite frankly I think all of his jokes are funny. So hard to choose. So I went with one that would be just low brow enough for ya to understand.
And the whole point to the joke was not supposed to be relevant to what the topic was. (Like I previously stated, that you didn't read-obviously) And BTW have you noticed your the only one to complain? Eventualy you'll come to realise you've made an ass out of yourself. Thats 3 for three then. The first two are obvious;

1)Milwaukee
2)Pee Wee Herman

I figured you would have at least come back with something more clever than what you did. Oh well, I have better things to ponder. Toe Jam, Hangnails. That sort of thing.

ELVIS
05-12-2004, 02:24 PM
You are one goofy ass Canadian...

Big Troubles
05-12-2004, 04:34 PM
:D we are all goofy ass, Elvis.

But some of us here are a few peanuts short of shit-log. :D

Big Troubles
05-12-2004, 04:35 PM
Hey Elvis...what gives? You said more than 3 words!

Big Troubles
05-12-2004, 04:36 PM
And that avatar of Elvis is waaaay over due for a change. Im pretty sure thats not how most of us remember him. ;)

Big Troubles
05-12-2004, 04:40 PM
closer to this

Big Troubles
05-12-2004, 04:41 PM
and this is when he was busted for stealing black music and pretending to write his own songs.

Big Troubles
05-12-2004, 04:41 PM
you know Im kidding. :D :D :D

Mr GrumpyAss
05-12-2004, 05:04 PM
How the fuck did this all start??? LOL.

ELVIS
05-12-2004, 05:10 PM
That's some crazy hair...

http://www.rotharmy.com/forums/attachment.php?postid=79500

Drugs are bad...

:elvis:

High Life Man
05-12-2004, 05:42 PM
Originally posted by Big Troubles
Eventualy you'll come to realise you've made an ass out of yourself. Thats 3 for three then.

Ah, no, I won't.

Keep up your constant blabbing. You seem to have a fixation with paste and bodily functions.

Admit it - you're wrong.

Now piss off.

Big Troubles
05-12-2004, 05:55 PM
LOL yeah I'll piss off...sure, that does sound like something I'd do. (insert sarcasm here)

change your avatar man. your creeping me out. And um, its just a guess but Im sure your shit does indeed stink. The next time you wipe your ass, just smell your fingers again. You'll see.
:cheese:

Big Troubles
05-12-2004, 05:59 PM
Originally posted by Mr GrumpyAss
How the fuck did this all start??? LOL.

hey man. well it all started 28 years ago in hickville, Milwaukee, WI when "High Life Man" was entered into this world via his Uncle Dad and Auntie Mom. From there on in, the little bastard has been brought up to think his shit doesn't stink, and his hero is Pee Wee Herman. (Never trust a man wearing a bow-tie)

High Life Man, why do I get the feeling your nothing more than a few swab tests away from being clinically diagnosed as living abortion?

Big Troubles
05-12-2004, 06:00 PM
Originally posted by ELVIS
That's some crazy hair...

http://www.rotharmy.com/forums/attachment.php?postid=79500

Drugs are bad...

:elvis:

yeah they say the eyes are the windows to the soul. But looking at Elvis there, Id say those are storm windows nailed shut!