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Mr Grimsdale
05-12-2004, 10:32 AM
Iraq: Time for exit strategy? (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3707499.stm)

Unless Iraq can be stabilised soon, policy planners in both the US and UK may well have to start thinking about an exit strategy.

Already coalition forces are trying to reduce confrontations in the hope that a period of relative calm can emerge in the run up to the handover to an interim government on 30 June.

This tactic could see the emergence of new combinations of Iraqi security forces in a more complex line-up than the coalition envisaged. It might have no choice but to accept them.

But if the policy does not work and the handover proves to be symbolic only, then attention will have to turn to the circumstances in which troops can first be reduced and then perhaps be withdrawn.

The problem with the current plan for Iraq is that there is no date by which foreign troops will leave.

There is no clear exit strategy.

It is all left open for future decisions by the series of three Iraqi governments due to take over in the coming 18 months:


the appointed caretaker interim government on 30 June;
the transitional government to be chosen by an elected National Assembly next January;
and the fully elected government at the start of 2006.
While the caretaker government might not act since it will be made up of coalition supporters, the Assembly elections in December or January could be dominated by the issue, leading to a request by the transitional government for a date to be set for withdrawal or for a process to be started.

But even the caretaker government might start making noises, especially if its members are political leaders rather than the technocrats sought by the UN envoy Lakhdar Brahimi who is heading the effort to set the government up.

Domestic despair

A new factor is also coming into play - growing domestic opposition to the occupation in the US and UK.

This has been fuelled by the disgust and despair at the treatment of Iraqi prisoners and now the beheading of an American civilian. A key lesson of Vietnam was that a war can be lost on the home front as much as on the frontline.

There is another potential issue and that is whether, at some stage, the British government might break ranks with Washington and call for a change.

In the meantime, the coalition is trying to develop an interim strategy of reducing tension. This was evident in what happened in Falluja where, despite coalition statements that "foreign fighters and terrorists" would be brought to heel, the city was handed over a new force of old Iraqi soldiers.

Now, General Martin Dempsey, commander of the 1st Armoured Division, has now said that the formula might be tried in other cities.

"We are going to try this model any place that I control right now and I think probably you are going to see some similar approach across the country," he said.

It is also evident in the handling of the Muslim cleric Moqtada Sadr. General Dempsey has even said that he might hand over security in the holy city of Najaf, where Sadr is based, to a local force which could even include members of the Sadr militia. That would be a significant change indeed.

A senior British official with experience of Iraq said of Moqtada Sadr this week: "The strategy is to get the Iraqis, through the religious authorities, the governors and the provincial councils and the police to act to isolate him." This is quite a change from the earlier policy of trying to arrest him.

However, the latest policy does not exclude military action from time to time against the Sadr militia where it gets too strong, as has been seen in several cities. The British army took action recently in Amara.

"The coalition has to choose the timing and tactical methods of neutralising these people," the official said. The Americans have been attacking Sadr forces in Karbala.

US officers speak openly

The coalition is bowing to a new reality over security. It cannot impose its will and this is accepted by senior soldiers with experience on the ground.

In a remarkable series of interviews in the Washington Post, senior American army officers have openly expressed doubts about whether the United States will win.

Major General Charles Swannack, commander of the 82nd Airborne Division which was in western Iraq for much of the past year, said that tactically the US was winning but when asked if overall it was losing, replied: "I think strategically we are."

Colonel Paul Hughes, the first director of strategic planning in Iraq after the war, whose brother died in Vietnam said: "Here I am, 30 years later, thinking we will win every fight and lose the war, because we don't understand the war we are in."

BigBadBrian
05-12-2004, 11:18 AM
I'm just curious Mr. G as to what British news source you value the most? Most credibility? Hmmmm?

High Life Man
05-12-2004, 01:31 PM
Neither are going anywhere for a long time.

We will see this thing through.

Mr Grimsdale
05-12-2004, 02:47 PM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
I'm just curious Mr. G as to what British news source you value the most? Most credibility? Hmmmm?

I just post stories that appear interesting.

Struck me as pretty interesting that US and UK officers are beginning to say that.

What British news source do you value most? Evidently the Daily Mirror a leftie tabloid judging by some of your previous posts.

ELVIS
05-12-2004, 02:53 PM
My idea of an exit strategy is for George Bush to stop pussy footing around and turn up the heat in that region to about twenty thousand degrees...

That is the only thing that will get those peoples attention...

Only then will we be able to see an end to this bullshit...

BigBadBrian
05-12-2004, 03:07 PM
Originally posted by Mr Grimsdale
I just post stories that appear interesting.

Struck me as pretty interesting that US and UK officers are beginning to say that.

What British news source do you value most? Evidently the Daily Mirror a leftie tabloid judging by some of your previous posts.

My question wasn't meant to wonder of your motives for posting this story. Indeed, we should've been, and hopefully were, looking for an exit strategy once Saddam was caught.

I simply wanted to know what news sources you Brits find to be reliable. I look at the Times, Guardian, Telegraph, and occasionally the Scotsman and the BBC once in awhile. I've only read the Daily Mirror once.........recently.


I do like Page 3 of the Sun also. :D

Mr Grimsdale
05-12-2004, 03:15 PM
Oh OK. (feels embarrassed)

hahaha :)

I usually take a look at the BBC news site.
As far as TV news goes Channel 4 is probably the best.

The Times and Telegraph are pretty accurate, the Guardian tends to look at stories in a different way to the other two so it's good for getting a different viewpoint.

If you like the Sun you should try the Daily Sport.

Angel
05-12-2004, 03:22 PM
Originally posted by ELVIS
My idea of an exit strategy is for George Bush to stop pussy footing around and turn up the heat in that region to about twenty thousand degrees...

That is the only thing that will get those peoples attention...

Only then will we be able to see an end to this bullshit...

How Christian of you. :rolleyes:

FORD
05-12-2004, 03:25 PM
no shit. :rolleyes:

ELVIS
05-12-2004, 03:33 PM
Ok..

Maybe we should send a group of christians to tell them about Jesus...

They will surely see their evil ways and repent... We will all live in peace.. love.. and harmony...

:rolleyes:

FORD
05-12-2004, 03:43 PM
Maybe someone should tell Bush about Jesus. Because he obviously doesn't have the first fucking clue about the teachings of his "favorite politcal philosopher"

High Life Man
05-12-2004, 05:45 PM
Fucking religion is what gets us into this shit anyway.

Fuck Christianity, fuck Islam. They're both corrupt at the highest levels. It's bullshit really because both have good things and ways for people to live. Unfortunately the people in charge of both have twisted them to fit their agendas.

Angel
05-12-2004, 06:34 PM
Originally posted by High Life Man
Fucking religion is what gets us into this shit anyway.

Fuck Christianity, fuck Islam. They're both corrupt at the highest levels. It's bullshit really because both have good things and ways for people to live. Unfortunately the people in charge of both have twisted them to fit their agendas.

I couldn't agree more! You're okay in my books HLM!!! :D

FORD
05-12-2004, 06:57 PM
Originally posted by High Life Man
Fucking religion is what gets us into this shit anyway.

Fuck Christianity, fuck Islam. They're both corrupt at the highest levels. It's bullshit really because both have good things and ways for people to live. Unfortunately the people in charge of both have twisted them to fit their agendas.

That's not the fault of Christ or Mohammed. Only the idiots who abuse their names while practicing the exact opposite of their teachings.

BigBadBrian
05-13-2004, 11:08 AM
Originally posted by Angel
I couldn't agree more! You're okay in my books HLM!!! :D


Hey Angel: :sex:

Seshmeister
05-13-2004, 05:52 PM
Maybe an exit strategy should have been worked put before they went in.