I'm supposed to take money from my family to pay for this...

[scamper]

Obesity may push U.S. health costs above Europe: study

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Nearly twice as many U.S. adults are obese compared to European, a key factor leading Americans to suffer more often from cancer, diabetes and other chronic ailments, a study released on Tuesday found.

Treatment of these and other chronic diseases adds between $100 billion and $150 billion to the annual health care tab in the United States, according to the report comparing U.S. and European health published online in the journal Health Affairs.

The United States spends significantly more per capita than any European country on health care, about $2 trillion annually, or 16 percent of the gross domestic product. While the big discrepancy has been linked to higher U.S. prices for medical treatment, the report said a sicker population may also be a factor.

"We expected to see differences between disease prevalence in the United States and Europe, but the extent of the differences is surprising," said Ken Thorpe, professor of public health at Emory University and a study co-author. "It is possible that we spend more on health care because we are, indeed, less healthy."

A key factor in many chronic illnesses is obesity and smoking. About 33 percent of Americans are obese, compared with 17 percent in 10 European countries reviewed. More than half of Americans are former or current smokers, compared with about 43 percent in the European sample.

While Americans appeared to be on the whole sicker than adults in other industrialized countries, the study said more aggressive preventive care could help explain the results for some illnesses.

For example, the study found 12.2 percent of Americans are diagnosed with cancer, more than twice that of Europe. But that is likely due in part to more screening here, the study said.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20071002/ts_nm/americans_study_dc

[Ellyllions]

We shouldn't have to take money out of our pockets to pay for anyone else's healthcare. Especially when the sickness is the result of a personal choice.

But we've all been doing it for years. Do you think that a Tylenol in the hospital really costs $4 a pill? Or the roll of toilet paper in the patient's room really costs $7?

[Nickdfresh]

So people shouldn't be allowed to smoke?

[Ellyllions]

That's personal choice. Whatever pitfalls become from personal choice should be the choosers burden to bear.

I'm completely against government telling people what personal choices they can or cannot make.

[LoungeMachine]

We should also be culling the weak from the herd at a young age...

Why pay for healthcare for people who arent going to be able to work....

Healthcare was designed for those of us who can afford it....

I suggest you people just don't get sick.....

But then there's always the emergency room...


But back to my original point, lethal injections by age 2 if your genentic makeup predisposes you to cost me money later in life...


:gulp:

[Ellyllions]

It shouldn't be a public burden Lounge.
Greed is driving the high cost of healthcare...

We exhault captalism and yet try to enforce socialism. The two negate each other and that's the problem.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Ellyllions
But we've all been doing it for years. Do you think that a Tylenol in the hospital really costs $4 a pill? Or the roll of toilet paper in the patient's room really costs $7?

Parts and labor?

yes.


You're not paying $4 for the pill itself.

But that's not my beef.

My beef is that if we cut out the middle man [insurance companies] that pill would cost alot less.

The only people who should make a profit in healthcare are the doctors, nurses, techs, and the companies risking the R&D dollars to bring us better treatment.

There is NO NEED for billion-dollar-a-year insurance company profits.

[Ellyllions]

While the health insurance companies model their business practices after the Mafia, and the hospitals are allowed to price gouge and avoid tax penalties under the ruse of "non-profit"...the burden of paying for those businesses to continue to grow wealthy is placed on the public as tax responsibilty?

Does that really only not make sense to just me?

On some utility bills, there's a "universal connectivity" charge. Do you mean to tell me that the businesses couldn't provide service to those unable to pay for it for cheaper or even free? It would be a huge tax write-off. But no, the cost of everything is rolled right back over into the public's responsibility.

I tell ya what, I'm a smoker. Do you think you should have to pay for my lung cancer? Honestly?

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Ellyllions
It shouldn't be a public burden Lounge.
Greed is driving the high cost of healthcare...

We exhault captalism and yet try to enforce socialism. The two negate each other and that's the problem.

I'm so tired of this argument. :rolleyes:

We HAVE socialized medicine already.

WE also have socialized military, fire, police, roads and infrastructre...

The Insurance Lobby has so brain-washed us into thinking the birth-right healthcare is somehow communistic.

Just like education keeps us from having to house more prisoners at $50K a year, preventitve medicine through childhood would greatly relieve many financial "burdens" on everyone...

Not to mention IT'S THE RIGHT THING TO DO.

I can't believe we live in a country that says we'll take care of your bombs for you, but you're on your own if your kids get sick/hurt.

[Ellyllions]

Damn Lounge....we had the same argument.

LOL!

bitch

[Ellyllions]

'cept I wasn't talking about kids....I thought the subject was obesity and/or smoking illnesses.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Ellyllions

I tell ya what, I'm a smoker. Do you think you should have to pay for my lung cancer? Honestly?

Yes.

Because that's what we do.

We take care of each other.

We don't NOT treat the accident victim that CAUSED the accident either..


Well buddy, we're not going to stop the bleeding, you ran the red light.


It's also false economics to think we dont already pay for that.....

[LoungeMachine]

SMOKES = $1.00 TAX TO GO DIRECTLY INTO A FUND FOR SMOKER'S RELATED HEALTHCARE, INCLUDING SECOND HAND.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Ellyllions
'cept I wasn't talking about kids....I thought the subject was obesity and/or smoking illnesses.

But you brought it into paying for others, etc....

We're either in this together as a country, as a people, as humans,,,,

or we're not.


I dont get to choose when the g'ment takes MY money and buys bombs to kill children with either...:mad:

So I'm going to take a few of your sheckles, combine it with everyone else's, and make sure that basic healthcare is a RIGHT in this country.

:gulp:

[Hyman Roth]

I really want to get into this thread - Healthcare should be universal in
this country no matter how we get there. How we achieve it is really
secondary. It can be done and expeditiously. Yes people are going
to have to pay - but so what! I'll pay. And you should too.

The situation this country finds itself in pertaining to how it cares for
the health of its populous is nothing short of atrocious, with how
many...48 million Americans counted without insurance and
manufacturing leaving the country? Forget about it! We are going to
have to share some costs and it means you and I won't be able to
take that trip to Tahiti next year or maybe have to take some work
we'd rather not do.... Tough shit.


The health care industry is the exemplification of how unabashed
greed results in the inefficiency of the market with potentially
catastrophic, deplorable results. It goes on a long list of issues that if
we don't fix, we are screwed in 50 years!

[LoungeMachine]

what hyman said. :cool:

[Ellyllions]

The greed needs to be fixed. That I'll agree with.

But socialized healthcare won't get my vote yet. Not until a lot of the shit changes.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Ellyllions
The greed needs to be fixed. That I'll agree with.

But socialized healthcare won't get my vote yet.

So you would vote to abolish Medicare and The VA ?

Glad to have you on the record.....

[Redballjets88]

Originally posted by Ellyllions
While the health insurance companies model their business practices after the Mafia, and the hospitals are allowed to price gouge and avoid tax penalties under the ruse of "non-profit"...the burden of paying for those businesses to continue to grow wealthy is placed on the public as tax responsibilty?

Does that really only not make sense to just me?

On some utility bills, there's a "universal connectivity" charge. Do you mean to tell me that the businesses couldn't provide service to those unable to pay for it for cheaper or even free? It would be a huge tax write-off. But no, the cost of everything is rolled right back over into the public's responsibility.

I tell ya what, I'm a smoker. Do you think you should have to pay for my lung cancer? Honestly?

nope. if someone chooses to smoke, they should pay their own way.

The people who can't pay for healthcare have medicare. If the US would fix that we wouldn't need this arguement.

I don't mind helping the poor and the old, but I don't want to be paying for the fuck who ODs on heroin

[scamper]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
We should also be culling the weak from the herd at a young age...

Why pay for healthcare for people who arent going to be able to work....

Healthcare was designed for those of us who can afford it....

I suggest you people just don't get sick.....

But then there's always the emergency room...


But back to my original point, lethal injections by age 2 if your genentic makeup predisposes you to cost me money later in life...


:gulp:


We're not talking about genentic makeup here, we're talking about gluttony and not taking care of yourself. If you want to smoke go ahead if you want to eat till you can't walk go ahead, but expect me to pay for you healthcare.

[Hyman Roth]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
what hyman said. :cool:

...and what Lounge said a minute before me in many fewer words!

[Ellyllions]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
So you would vote to abolish Medicare and The VA ?

Glad to have you on the record.....

Mighty broad strokes you got on your brush there, big-un.

I understand the point your making.
But I ain't gonna let you pin me to the wall with that.
You know what I'm saying.

[scamper]

Originally posted by Hyman Roth
We are going to
have to share some costs and it means you and I won't be able to
take that trip to Tahiti next year or maybe have to take some work
we'd rather not do.... Tough shit.

So what is the incentive to try to make a better life for yourself when all of the hard work is paying for someone else. Not to mention the fact that I don't trust the gov. with the health of my family.

[Hyman Roth]

Originally posted by Ellyllions
The greed needs to be fixed. That I'll agree with.

But socialized healthcare won't get my vote yet. Not until a lot of the shit changes.

Hell yeah!! I'm with you! Let's change all that "shit"!! Unfortunately the wheels of this democracy move incrementally and the wheels inside the voters' heads move even slower - I'm serious... slow-witted people who don't think its fair they should have to pay anything for the health and well being of everybody, even if they are fat, are holding back progress!

:)

[Hyman Roth]

Originally posted by scamper
So what is the incentive to try to make a better life for yourself when all of the hard work is paying for someone else. Not to mention the fact that I don't trust the gov. with the health of my family.

I can think of some incentives, but the better response is to attack your premise. No one ever suggested "all" of your hard work should go to pay someone else. And I agree with you - I don't trust the government either.

[scamper]

Originally posted by Hyman Roth
slow-witted people who don't think its fair they should have to pay anything for the health and well being of everybody, even if they are fat, are holding back progress!

:)

socialism...

[Hyman Roth]

Originally posted by scamper
We're not talking about genentic makeup here, we're talking about gluttony and not taking care of yourself. ...if you want to eat till you can't walk go ahead, but expect me to pay for you healthcare.

So people who are medically obese by reason of hyperthyroidism (a genetic disorder) are in...but fat fucks who eat at McDonalds are out?

[scamper]

Originally posted by Hyman Roth
I can think of some incentives, but the better response is to attack your premise. No one ever suggested "all" of your hard work should go to pay someone else. And I agree with you - I don't trust the government either.

What is the limit 40%, 50%, 80% where does it end?

[Ellyllions]

Originally posted by Hyman Roth
slow-witted people who don't think its fair they should have to pay anything for the health and well being of everybody, even if they are fat, are holding back progress!

:)

but I like being slow-witted.
People depend on you a lot less when you're slow...:D

[Hyman Roth]

Originally posted by scamper
socialism...

knee...meet the jerk :rolleyes:

I'm out for a few hours. Keep it going, scamper!!

[scamper]

Originally posted by Hyman Roth
knee...meet the jerk :rolleyes:

I'm out for a few hours. Keep it going, scamper!!

I'm not sure where to go with it now.

[Redballjets88]

Originally posted by Hyman Roth
Hell yeah!! I'm with you! Let's change all that "shit"!! Unfortunately the wheels of this democracy move incrementally and the wheels inside the voters' heads move even slower - I'm serious... slow-witted people who don't think its fair they should have to pay anything for the health and well being of everybody, even if they are fat, are holding back progress!

:)

this same arguement can be put towards making healthcare universal

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by scamper
I'm not sure where to go with it now.

What if you're a pig at home,

You leave garbage and flammables everywhere throughout your house.

Through your negligence, you're now more predisposed to a house fire.

You should have to pay more in taxes for the Fire Dept. than me, because I keep my house neat?

See the slippery slope your argument hangs from now?

You dont want "socialized" medicine, or socializm for that matter, but you want everyone to only pay for what they use.

You want a sliding scale on healthcare? Only the healthy gets it?

And who is to determine your health futures? insurance companies?


Thos who say they "dont trust the government" are just saying they dont trust themselves to elect competent people.

THE GOVERNMENT IS US !!!!!!!!!!!1

When will you people get that?

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Redballjets88
this same arguement can be put towards making healthcare universal

You know, until you get off of your parent's insurance, and go out there and get a job that offers healthcare, and then you try to pay for it busing tables like you do, you really dont have much room to speak.

YOU have NO firsthand knowledge of what it takes to provide a family with healthcare, skippy.

You really sound stupid when you wade into arguments you know nothing about.

Just like when you said the next Presidential election didnt matter, and it was a joke.

:rolleyes:

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Ellyllions
That's personal choice. Whatever pitfalls become from personal choice should be the choosers burden to bear.

I'm completely against government telling people what personal choices they can or cannot make.

I agree to an extent, but either way, you're paying for it...

[scamper]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
What if you're a pig at home,

You leave garbage and flammables everywhere throughout your house.

Through your negligence, you're now more predisposed to a house fire.

You should have to pay more in taxes for the Fire Dept. than me, because I keep my house neat?

See the slippery slope your argument hangs from now?

You dont want "socialized" medicine, or socializm for that matter, but you want everyone to only pay for what they use.

You want a sliding scale on healthcare? Only the healthy gets it?

And who is to determine your health futures? insurance companies?

It's really not about me it's about my children and their children. I don't want them to be dependent on the government for their quality of life.


Thos who say they "dont trust the government" are just saying they dont trust themselves to elect competent people.

THE GOVERNMENT IS US !!!!!!!!!!!1

When will you people get that?

There are no competent people.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by scamper
It's really not about me it's about my children and their children. I don't want them to be dependent on the government for their quality of life.



:confused:

Straw man argument right there....

Who the fuck is arguing for that here?

:confused:

[scamper]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
I agree to an extent, but either way, you're paying for it...

That's true, it's double edged, but I would like to keep the gov out of my pocket as much as possible.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
but either way, you're paying for it...

fucking exactly....

so why not cut out the middle man [big insurance]

and go to a single-payer system?


No one wants the "government" to dictate quality of healthcare, YET YOU'RE WILLING TO PUT THOSE DECISIONS IN THE HANDS OF AN INSURANCE COMPANY WHO'S PROFIT COMES FROM DENYING YOU HEALTHCARE???????????????????????????//

This makes no fucking sense to me...

[scamper]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
:confused:

Straw man argument right there....

Who the fuck is arguing for that here?

:confused:

I must be confused, because the more government control means the more they run your life right?

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by scamper
That's true, it's double edged, but I would like to keep the gov out of my pocket as much as possible.

But you have no problem with the insurance companies taking your money and runing with it?

:confused:


Fuck, I wish someone could explain this thinking to me.

WHY SHOULD COMANIES MAKE BILLIONS OFF YOUR HEALTHCARE PREMIUMS.

Shouldnt that money either stay in your pocket, or go to the healthcare PROVIDERS???????

[scamper]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
fucking exactly....

so why not cut out the middle man [big insurance]

and go to a single-payer system?


No one wants the "government" to dictate quality of healthcare, YET YOU'RE WILLING TO PUT THOSE DECISIONS IN THE HANDS OF AN INSURANCE COMPANY WHO'S PROFIT COMES FROM DENYING YOU HEALTHCARE???????????????????????????//

This makes no fucking sense to me...


I get your point....

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by scamper
I must be confused, because the more government control means the more they run your life right?

No, man.....


That's what the insurance lobby wants you to believe.

Instead of paying $500-$1,000 a month in insurance premiums to an insurance company for your healthcare, followed by co-pays, etc...

You pay into a pool, which gives the money DIRECTLY to the providers, [e.g. MD RN, etc]

Cut out the disgusting profit margins of these insurance companies, whose sole existence is predicated on DENYING as many claims as possible...

WHY DO YOU WANT A FOR-PROFIT COMPANY in charge of determining when you get treated, and for what?

[WACF]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine


No one wants the "government" to dictate quality of healthcare, YET YOU'RE WILLING TO PUT THOSE DECISIONS IN THE HANDS OF AN INSURANCE COMPANY WHO'S PROFIT COMES FROM DENYING YOU HEALTHCARE???????????????????????????//




That is it right there.

Insurance companies do not get rich by taking care of your best interests.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Ellyllions
The greed needs to be fixed. That I'll agree with.

But socialized healthcare won't get my vote yet. Not until a lot of the shit changes.

The "socialized" bit is just a semantic red-herring thrown out there by the extreme right, often backed by political lobbyists that have a vested interest in continually allowing healthcare costs to soar...

Right now, the gov't policies benefit corporations that have the bling to raise an army of lobbyists...

The biggest cause of bankruptcies are caused by medical bills...

People THAT HAVE health insurance are being forced to pay larger premiums that cover less and then are saddled with huge medical bills despite thousand$ spent in premium$.

We spend more on health care than any other nation, including those with "socialized medicine" that get much better returns in the overall health of their populations. We are the richest country that the world has ever known and yet the shrinking middle classes are asked to bear a far greater financial share in their well being than ever before...

The corporations have passed their bills long enough. Gov't administered healthcare (the actual term) could actually benefit the economy by taking a substantial burden off small business owners, and passing some of the tax burden onto corporations that have long benefited by the collective reductions in worker compensations they have been allowed to enact since at least the 1970s. A society is judged on how it treats its weak, poor, and old. The whole "I ain't gonna pay for that!" argument is completely irrelevant. YOU ARE already. Paying in fees, taxes, plans, and the list goes on..

[m_dixon1984]

Fuck, i hate all the fat bastard bashing.

I'm a fat bastard...a single fat bastard...a working single fat bastard that pays taxes.

I pay for other people's kids to go to school, not to mention my tax dollars that are used for other chidren's programs like child tax benefits, gov't sponsored daycare, etc., so the rest of you better be ready to pay for my quadruple bypass surgery when I need it. I certainly haven't been thrilled by having support your screaming, spoiled, baggy-pants wearing, hip-hop loving, ritalin addicted children.

You'll also all be saving a bunch when I won't be taking advantage of the old-age benefits I've paid into over the years. Being a fat bastard I won't likely live that long.

I'm sure that at the end of the day a fat bastard's cost to the system isn't any more than the average spent per person in any country with some form of subsidized health care (not average healthy person; average per capita...period). Especially after you factor in the extra taxes we pay on all the fast-food, junk-food and cigarettes we consume

M

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
The "socialized" bit is just a semantic red-herring thrown out there by the extreme right, often backed by political lobbyists that have a vested interest in continually allowing healthcare costs to soar...

..

Exactly.

And frankly, I thought Elly was bright enough to see through that ruse...

:(

[LoungeMachine]

:lol: m-dix

He's right, though...

Let 'em eat themselves into an early grave.... ;)

Like I said in my first post...

We, as a society, as a people, are either in this together, looking out for each other, and standing up for the less fortunate, or it's every man for himself...

I prefer the former, myself.

I'll pay for dixon's bypass, AND Elly's lung transplant.

Because I love them both, and care that their short time on this planet be a healthy one.

:gulp:

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by scamper
So what is the incentive to try to make a better life for yourself when all of the hard work is paying for someone else. Not to mention the fact that I don't trust the gov. with the health of my family.

Where's the incentive there? Health care plans have deteriorated over the years...

How about people are ruined by huge bills?

How about corporations can increase their bottom line by reducing benefits because everybody has essentially collectively agreed to do the same?

And you trust corporations with your families healthcare? Really?

[WACF]

Lounge...you would make a great Canadian!

:gulp:


heh, heh

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by scamper
That's true, it's double edged, but I would like to keep the gov out of my pocket as much as possible.

By allowing corporations to "pay-off" the gov't to be in your pocket as much as possible?

The choice between more or less government in these matters has become a false one. It's now a choice between a democracy and a plutocracy...

[Nitro Express]

When oil hits $200/barrel and the price of food skyrockets, the fat asses will have to each less and start walking. If it's the grubbly fat asses you see at Wal-Mart and McDonalds, they will just eat each other.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by WACF
Lounge...you would make a great Canadian!

:gulp:


heh, heh

I kid you not, I've thought about relocating to BC many times...

Just not sure they'd take me, with my record. ;)

:gulp:

You would have to put BOF in a cage first.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by m_dixon1984
Fuck, i hate all the fat bastard bashing.

I'm a fat bastard...a single fat bastard...a working single fat bastard that pays taxes.

I pay for other people's kids to go to school, not to mention my tax dollars that are used for other chidren's programs like child tax benefits, gov't sponsored daycare, etc., so the rest of you better be ready to pay for my quadruple bypass surgery when I need it. I certainly haven't been thrilled by having support your screaming, spoiled, baggy-pants wearing, hip-hop loving, ritalin addicted children.

You'll also all be saving a bunch when I won't be taking advantage of the old-age benefits I've paid into over the years. Being a fat bastard I won't likely live that long.

I'm sure that at the end of the day a fat bastard's cost to the system isn't any more than the average spent per person in any country with some form of subsidized health care (not average healthy person; average per capita...period). Especially after you factor in the extra taxes we pay on all the fast-food, junk-food and cigarettes we consume

M

And when you're an old fat ass, whether you've had kids or not, you will still pay high school taxes. But if you were an American, you'd expect Medicare to take care of most of the burden of healthcare, which is far more costly, and would still demand artificially low car insurance premiums unlike young men who are forced to pay according to their risk level...

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
By allowing corporations to "pay-off" the gov't to be in your pocket as much as possible?

The choice between more or less government in these matters has become a false one. It's now a choice between a democracy and a plutocracy...

fucking dead-on perfect.

READ THIS AGAIN PEOPLE.

Your "oh, oh, I dont want the governement in my healthcare" is such a load of SHIT.

They're already there.

But instead of being in YOUR best interest, they're working for THE INSURANCE LOBBIES.

fuck. :mad:

WAKE UP.

[scamper]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
fucking dead-on perfect.

READ THIS AGAIN PEOPLE.

Your "oh, oh, I dont want the governement in my healthcare" is such a load of SHIT.

They're already there.

But instead of being in YOUR best interest, they're working for THE INSURANCE LOBBIES.

fuck. :mad:

WAKE UP.

I see the light, you've converted me.

[Ellyllions]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
AND Elly's lung transplant.

Because I love them both, and care that their short time on this planet be a healthy one.

:gulp:

Shit.
I hate you.
You can call me "owned" now.
I'm not saying another word.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Ellyllions
Shit.
I hate you.
You can call me "owned" now.
I'm not saying another word.


:xmas:

Seriously, though...

I just can't wrap my mind around this attitude of "hey, not my ducats, I got mine, you can die for all I care"

If we're here for any noble "reason", shouldnt it be to see that all of us, especially the weakest, have the basic rights of health, education, safety, and the pursuit of hapiness?

I could never look another human in the eye, and say I'd rather you die than me spend some of my treasure to help you... regardless of the reason...

:gulp:

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by scamper
I see the light, you've converted me.

:)

I hope that's not sarcasm I smell....

Just keep an open mind, and do some research...

It's a pyramid scheme. And we're all at the bottom.

Don't play into the "fear" talking points put forth by the Big Lobbies.

They're only scared of losing their CASH COW.

:gulp:

[scamper]

No sarcasm, you've all made great points.

[Redballjets88]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
You know, until you get off of your parent's insurance, and go out there and get a job that offers healthcare, and then you try to pay for it busing tables like you do, you really dont have much room to speak.

YOU have NO firsthand knowledge of what it takes to provide a family with healthcare, skippy.

You really sound stupid when you wade into arguments you know nothing about.

Just like when you said the next Presidential election didnt matter, and it was a joke.

:rolleyes:

1. Do you have any valid points? You didn't even adress what I said. It would take as much work in the government to reform medicar/medicaid as it would to socialize.

2. I never said the next presidential election didn't matter. I feel it is extremely important and will be a turning point (good or bad) for this country.


3. Do you even read anything I say? You a blind fuck. Take the dick out of your ass and suck it.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Redballjets88
1. Do you have any valid points? You didn't even adress what I said. It would take as much work in the government to reform medicar/medicaid as it would to socialize.

2. I never said the next presidential election didn't matter. I feel it is extremely important and will be a turning point (good or bad) for this country.


3. Do you even read anything I say? You a blind fuck. Take the dick out of your ass and suck it.

:rolleyes:

You know, everbody has the right to be an ignorant moron, but you're starting to abuse your privledges.

I don't have any valid points?

YOU haven't made any points, dumbass.

fucking punkass bitch.

Get off the internet and go to school, or enlist, you stupid waste of oxygen.

[Redballjets88]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
:rolleyes:

You know, everbody has the right to be an ignorant moron, but you're starting to abuse your privledges.

I don't have any valid points?

YOU haven't made any points, dumbass.

fucking punkass bitch.

Get off the internet and go to school, or enlist, you stupid waste of oxygen.

no points? Im not trying to make points, I'm adding input to a conversation. I go to school.

Go buy a nice car, I hear its a good way to deal with mid life crisis.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Redballjets88



2. I never said the next presidential election didn't matter.



Originally posted by Redballjets88
the next election is going to be so weak its not even funny.


:rolleyes:

Fucking know-it-all snot-nosed douch who has NEVER

Voted
Paid for Health Insurance
Owned a home
Lived away from Mom and Dad.

STFU until you know what the fuck you're even talking about.

Fucking idiot.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Redballjets88
no points? Im not trying to make points, I'm adding input to a conversation. I go to school.


All evidence to the contrary..... :rolleyes:

[Redballjets88]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
:rolleyes:

Fucking know-it-all snot-nosed douch who has NEVER

Voted
Paid for Health Insurance
Owned a home
Lived away from Mom and Dad.

STFU until you know what the fuck you're even talking about.

Fucking idiot.

how in the fuck do saying the election will be weak mean it is pointless? Weak would mean that it has no strong canidates. You're a fucking retard.

go buy a car get off the internet.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Redballjets88
how in the fuck do saying the election will be weak mean it is pointless? Weak would mean that it has no strong canidates. You're a fucking retard.

go buy a car get off the internet.


:rolleyes:

STFU you ignorant little twat.

You wouldn't know a strong candidate if you bussed his table.

You're a moron.

You don't know ANYTHING about the thread topic.

Have you ever paid a single healthcare premium in your life?

Have you ever paid one single dime in taxes?

Have you ever voted in an election ? [Homecoming Queen doesn't count]

You are actually DUMBER than both BOF and cadaverdouche.

At least they have an inkling of what they're talking about.

fucking little twat. :rolleyes:

[FORD]

Let's take a REAL look at what corporatism has brought to this country versus so-called "socialism".


Corporatism has brought you high fructose corn syrup, bleached white flour, and genetically modified food, which is responsible for the astronomical increase in obesity and diabetes for the last 25 years.

Corporatism brings you pharmaceuticals, which now air more commercials on TV than any other product. They'll tell you their pills will solve any problem from depression to arthritis to diseases which didn't exist 5 years ago such as "restless leg syndrome".

The side effects of most of these drugs are worse than suffering whatever ailment they're supposed to cure.

And guess what? These drugs also make you fat. I have a friend who has tried every prescription anti depressant under the sun (or lack of sun, given the weather here). Not only is he still depressed, he's easily 100 pounds heavier than he was when I first met the guy 15 years ago.

On the other hand, "socialism" pays your grandparents' bills. Or parents, for some of us old farts. "Socialism" ensures that when your house is on fire, you can make a three digit phone call and take care of it. Just imagine a Halliburton owned fire department, which only sent trucks out if million dollar houses were burning.

"Socialism" brings you the United States military. Corporatism brings you Blackwater.

Anybody get it yet?

There are some things in this world that simply should not be "for profit" businesses. The military, law enforcement, and the fire department are among them. And so should be health care.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Redballjets88

go buy a car get off the internet.

I own 4 vehicles.

All of them paid for, paid taxes on them, have them fully insured.

How about you?

Does mom let you borrow the station wagon to get you to your busboy job?


Do they let you remain on their insurance while living at home?

What do you have to show for yourself?

nothing.


You know nothing, you've done nothing, and yet still you spew your inane dribblings...

Come back when you have at least one bill in your own name other than maybe your cell phone. [which is probably also on dad's plan]

19 and living at home?

Fucking freeloader.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by FORD


"Socialism" brings you the United States military. Corporatism brings you Blackwater.

Anybody get it yet?

There are some things in this world that simply should not be "for profit" businesses. The military, law enforcement, and the fire department are among them. And so should be health care.

Yep.

And I think we may have succeeded in winning over Elly and Scamper too...


But when you've grown up in a Texas Republican household, and still have never spent 1 day away from momy's skirt, and daddy's talking points, you know nothing other than what's been fed you.

Case in point, our resident teenage freeloader.

He'll learn eventually.

Once they finally kick his lazy ass out.

[Seshmeister]

I think it's important to realise that every Western country has problems with healthcare these days and there is no perfect system but the US one at the moment seems to be the worst of all worlds for the people that actually have to pay for it in terms of value for money.

It's good to see some people actually changing their minds in a thread for once...

[Seshmeister]

And as far as the smokers go they are already taxed to fuck which doesn't quite cover their cost to healthcare systems but the fact they often die at the end of their working lives before they become a burden saves a ton of cash. The guy that works all his life, gets lung cancer and checks out in a year costs far less than the guy that looks after themselves and dies at 90 after 10 years in a nursing home with Altzeimers.

The junkies are a different matter but easily fixed. Legalize and tax heroin, coke and every other drug people want to put into their bodies.

Cheers!

:gulp:

[Blackflag]

Bottom line:

The people who are demanding that health care should be a "right" are people who are too lazy to get their fat ass out and pay for their own insurance.

People who choose to play music for a living, then realize they can't afford insurance. People who buy a shiny new car, then realize their health insurance money was spent on car insurance . . . then want somebody else to pick up the slack for them.

A "right?" Show me in writing where this "right" is. You have a right to demand that a doctor spend his time, energy, and expertise on you...without you paying for it?

So is he your slave? Or am I, as a taxpayer, your slave?

Before you answer, I'll tell you the same thing I told some pothead douchebag in the subway the other day: GET A JOB.

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by Ellyllions
... I tell ya what, I'm a smoker. Do you think you should have to pay for my lung cancer? Honestly?

I get to pay for;

The smoker's lung cancer,
The bipass surgery of the one who feeds on sweetened fried fat,
The multiple abortions of the negligent cock hopper that just refuses to take that FREE pill,
The broken limbs of the teenage boy who "have to" get that adrenaline level up by practicing extreme sports on a regular basis,
The worker who fakes an accident just to get compensation, staying home,
The other worker who fakes a flue and just wants a couple days off,
Etc...

Now THAT piss me of... as it's costing me an arm and a leg!

I also get to pay for;

The kid who's single Mom. can't afford his cancer treatments,
The elderly who needs to be hospitalized 'til the day he dies, so he can at least "leave" with dignity,
The birth control pills of the teenage girl that understand that she's better of preventing than aborting,
The surgery of the worker who's boss was too cheap to fix that machine responsible for cutting his arm off,
Etc...

And THAT... I don't mind doing at all!


I said it before and I'll say it again...
Socialized health care is a great ideal but it absolutely has to be regulated religiously.
And THAT is not an easy task!
So far... we still have a lot of work to do.

[blonddgirl777]

I saw a documentary on morbid obesity in the U.S...
500 lbs and up, the heaviest was 1,200 lbs!

Now what the fuck?
Nobody ever told them that 2 hot dogs and a shake is enough?

It has been proven that only 3% of the obese people really have a glandular (or other) desease...
The other 97% are just lazy ass porkers that I.M.O. don't diserve anyone's help, since they don't eaven lift a finger to help themselves...

[Redballjets88]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
I own 4 vehicles.

All of them paid for, paid taxes on them, have them fully insured.

How about you?

Does mom let you borrow the station wagon to get you to your busboy job?


Do they let you remain on their insurance while living at home?

What do you have to show for yourself?

nothing.


You know nothing, you've done nothing, and yet still you spew your inane dribblings...

Come back when you have at least one bill in your own name other than maybe your cell phone. [which is probably also on dad's plan]

19 and living at home?

Fucking freeloader.



I voted in the Texas Governor election. I pay for my car, and insurance.

I don't know where you get this busboy idea from. Maybe because you're a closed minded, irrational, short fused, peice of shit with nothing to live for other than complaining on the internet. If you're so passionate about the politics you believe in why don't you get out there and do something about it instead of bitching and moaning.
If you think I'm so "stupid" why don't you say something enlightening that will mean something and not yell at me via typing. Why don't you quit crying whenever someone ruffles your feathers? Half the reason I say anything to you is so I can laugh at how pissed off you get. I can see you laying in bed at night thinking of how you're going to "own" me next. Get off you're high horse and get the stick out of you're ass. You talk about how shitty our government is because of the scare tatics and censorship they use. You also use these tactics, only on a smaller scale. If you want respect you have to show it. This is why I like people like FORD or Nick, they might not like the input I put into a thread, but they actually type things that are more than rage fueled rants. please mature.


...please don't use grammar as an excuse to avoid what I said.

[Redballjets88]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Yep.

And I think we may have succeeded in winning over Elly and Scamper too...


But when you've grown up in a Texas Republican household, and still have never spent 1 day away from momy's skirt, and daddy's talking points, you know nothing other than what's been fed you.

Case in point, our resident teenage freeloader.

He'll learn eventually.

Once they finally kick his lazy ass out.


by the way if you are so against "freeloading" then stop supporting welfare and things of that sort, many freeloaders live off that.

[Hyman Roth]

...

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Blackflag
Bottom line:

The people who are demanding that health care should be a "right" are people who are too lazy to get their fat ass out and pay for their own insurance.



What a stupid generalization. :rolleyes:

Are there people out there that fit your description? Of course.

But to dismiss those of us who HAVE good coverage, but still feel deep, down inside that it's a birthright in this country [or should be] to make sure every citizen has quality healtcare regardless of their ability to pay is ridiculous.

That's not a "bottom line" That's a position. A posture. A talking point.

And one that generally comes from the far right.

:cool:

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Redballjets88
I voted in the Texas Governor election. I pay for my car, and insurance.

I don't know where you get this busboy idea from. Maybe because you're a closed minded, irrational, short fused, peice of shit with nothing to live for other than complaining on the internet. If you're so passionate about the politics you believe in why don't you get out there and do something about it instead of bitching and moaning.
If you think I'm so "stupid" why don't you say something enlightening that will mean something and not yell at me via typing. Why don't you quit crying whenever someone ruffles your feathers? Half the reason I say anything to you is so I can laugh at how pissed off you get. I can see you laying in bed at night thinking of how you're going to "own" me next. Get off you're high horse and get the stick out of you're ass. You talk about how shitty our government is because of the scare tatics and censorship they use. You also use these tactics, only on a smaller scale. If you want respect you have to show it. This is why I like people like FORD or Nick, they might not like the input I put into a thread, but they actually type things that are more than rage fueled rants. please mature.


...please don't use grammar as an excuse to avoid what I said.

Get me another fork. This one's dirty.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Redballjets88
by the way if you are so against "freeloading" then stop supporting welfare and things of that sort, many freeloaders live off that.

And some freeloaders just live off mom and dad while hanging out on the internets and busing tables for money to buy more video games with......

When do you plan on living on your own and paying into society?

20?
21?

25?

[m_dixon1984]

Originally posted by blonddgirl777
I saw a documentary on morbid obesity in the U.S...
500 lbs and up, the heaviest was 1,200 lbs!

Now what the fuck?
Nobody ever told them that 2 hot dogs and a shake is enough?

It has been proven that only 3% of the obese people really have a glandular (or other) desease...
The other 97% are just lazy ass porkers that I.M.O. don't diserve anyone's help, since they don't eaven lift a finger to help themselves...
For fatties everywhere...go fuck yourself!

Guess what...with socialized health care come these problems. YOU don't get to choose how your health care dollars are spent just like I don't get to choose how my child care dollars are spent. It's a good thing that we live in a compasionate country where how or why someone needs help is less important than simply making sure they get help when they need it.

I'm glad you made your position clear because I was thinking of getting in touch to hang out before the Montreal show. Now that I know that you'd leave me for dead if my inevitable cardiac incident happens that evening I've changed my mind.

Your intolerance for fat people is disgusting and prejudicial. You are a bigot! That word isn't exclusive to nationality and skin colour. You might as well wear a pointy, white hood everywhere you go.

M

[WACF]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
What a stupid generalization. :rolleyes:

Are there people out there that fit your description? Of course.

But to dismiss those of us who HAVE good coverage, but still feel deep, down inside that it's a birthright in this country [or should be] to make sure every citizen has quality healtcare regardless of their ability to pay is ridiculous.

That's not a "bottom line" That's a position. A posture. A talking point.

And one that generally comes from the far right.

:cool:

The same far right that lowers or puts a cap on minimum wages, takes away workers rights and work place protection, prevents unions from organizing ect...

Many people can work their ass off but because of where they are or where they came from...they just will not get anywhere.

That is part of why socialized medicine is so crucial...

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by m_dixon1984
For fatties everywhere...go fuck yourself!

Guess what...with socialized health care come these problems. YOU don't get to choose how your health care dollars are spent just like I don't get to choose how my child care dollars are spent. It's a good thing that we live in a compasionate country where how or why someone needs help is less important than simply making sure they get help when they need it...

Well guess what,
If we'd moderate the health care abuses (like the ones I've listed above), we might have enough gvmnt's fundings for EVERY PARENTS to send their children to those subventioned $7.00/day daycare!

Just in this city alone, there is a waiting list of over 20.000 children!

Get your facts straight, fatso!

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by m_dixon1984
...I'm glad you made your position clear because I was thinking of getting in touch to hang out before the Montreal show. Now that I know that you'd leave me for dead if my inevitable cardiac incident happens that evening I've changed my mind...

Glad to know in advance that you are an ignorant Ontarian...
I don't hang out with stupid ass holes like you!

Now you can get your "inevitable cardiac incident" all you want, the fact is... our waiting time at the E.R. is so long you will probably die!

L.M.A.O.

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by m_dixon1984
... Your intolerance for fat people is disgusting and prejudicial...

Call it what you want... who are you to judge anyway :rolleyes:

What's disgusting is that fat fuck I saw on that documentary that was too negligent of himself to take action WAY BEFORE he got to 1,200 lbs!

If not being able to wipe is own ass and needed a forklift to be taken out of his garage door is not enough for him (and his wife) to get "the message", I don't see why we would HAVE TO help him out!

Now get on a treadmill and stop complaining about others not wanting to do it for you! ;)

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by m_dixon1984
... You might as well wear a pointy, white hood everywhere you go...

Pssst, be careful when in MTL... we have black people here! :eek:
Unlike in that inbread Ottawa stick up the ass government town you live in!


Ho and one more thing, if you see me there at the Vh show... come and say Hey, so I can tell you to fuck off in person!

:fucku2:


















On the other hand... nha! :o ...
This is gonna be an extra fun evening I don't want to ruin, dealing with fat heart attack complainers...

[m_dixon1984]

Originally posted by blonddgirl777
Call it what you want... who are you to judge anyway :rolleyes:

What's disgusting is that fat fuck I saw on that documentary that was too negligent of himself to take action WAY BEFORE he got to 1,200 lbs!

If not being able to wipe is own ass and needed a forklift to be taken out of his garage door is not enough for him (and his wife) to get "the message", I don't see why we would HAVE TO help him out!

Now get on a treadmill and stop complaining about others not wanting to do it for you! ;)
I'm a fat person you don't want to help. Not only that you don't want anyone else to give me any help. Your own words give me the right to judge you: "The other 97% are just lazy ass porkers that I.M.O. don't diserve anyone's help, since they don't eaven lift a finger to help themselves...".

If you don't want to be judged then keep your opinion to yourself.

Have I complained? Not once. I'll only use a treadmill if you bring your prejudiced self along to watch my exposed, jiggling, man flesh bounce around. I know women at the gym love seeing that. It's what makes me so desirable.

We could always meet halfway on this one. For every fat person that dies because you don't care to help; one child with cancer will have to die because I hate other people's kids.

M

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by m_dixon1984
I'm a fat person you don't want to help. Not only that you don't want anyone else to give me any help....

WRONG... that's not exactly what I meant.

You DO need help (you sure do). I know that because on top of working as a freelance designer, raising an 8 months old baby and taking care of the home, I am training to be a fitness instructor, wich I will do part time.

A lot of people need to join a gym (fat or thin, giggly or firm, ugly or pretty...). I hear a lot of this; "I don't have time", "I hate to sweat", and the comment you just made about women not wanting to see guys like you at the gym...

I am sick of hearing excuses. And THEY ARE excuses... I know extra busy people that take the time for their health; cooking the right food instead of ordering out, walking instead of taking the car to the corner store etc...

Where does it end? (or start)?

People like you DO need help... that's why I think that you need to prevent that heart attack instead of saying that it's "inevitable" as you just mentioned.

What our governments should do, is to give a tax break to everyone that cares to join a gym. (and go), serve healthy food (instead of junk) in schools and invest in programs for smokers to quit etc...

Now do something before it's too late!

And rest assured... if I ever see you in person, I will NOT make fun of you for being fat, not eaven give you "the look"... Obesity is a problem that I want to and will help solving by teaching how to...

[Redballjets88]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Get me another fork. This one's dirty.

since you have no reply to anything I said, does this mean I just owned you?

Now fuck off and quit talkin shit.

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by m_dixon1984
... Your own words give me the right to judge you: "The other 97% are just lazy ass porkers that I.M.O. don't diserve anyone's help, since they don't eaven lift a finger to help themselves..."

The statement about obesity is statistics and medical facts...
I didn't make it up, it is public records.

The opinion about diserving everyone to pay for it (WHEN it's the result of negligence and laziness) is mine and really I don't care about you judging me.

[m_dixon1984]

Originally posted by blonddgirl777
WRONG... that's not exactly what I meant.

You DO need help (you sure do). I know that because on top of working as a freelance designer, raising an 8 months old baby and taking care of the home, I am training to be a fitness instructor, wich I will do part time.

A lot of people need to join a gym (fat or thin, giggly or firm, ugly or pretty...). I hear a lot of this; "I don't have time", "I hate to sweat", and the comment you just made about women not wanting to see guys like you at the gym...

I am sick of hearing excuses. And THEY ARE excuses... I know extra busy people that take the time for their health; cooking the right food instead of ordering out, walking instead of taking the car to the corner store etc...

Where does it end? (or start)?

People like you DO need help... that's why I think that you need to prevent that heart attack instead of saying that it's "inevitable" as you just mentioned.

What our governments should do, is to give a tax break to everyone that cares to join a gym. (and go), serve healthy food (instead of junk) in schools and invest in programs for smokers to quit etc...

Now do something before it's too late!

And rest assured... if I ever see you in person, I will NOT make fun of you for being fat, not eaven give you "the look"... Obesity is a problem that I want to and will help solving by teaching how to...

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by m_dixon1984
... I'll only use a treadmill if you bring your prejudiced self along to watch my exposed, jiggling, man flesh bounce around. I know women at the gym love seeing that. It's what makes me so desirable...

Again... talking out of your ass...

Bring YOUR prejudice self to my gym., get on a treadmill and I will coach the shit out of you.
You WILL lose those extra pounds and who gives a fuck about those women who might not like to see you? They can look the other way at beefy fake taned Arnold who can't get it up because of all the steroids...
(B.T.W. you've got to chose where you go... at my gym., nobody cares about other's appearences)

When I see someone really big at the gym., I think "good move if everyone would have those balls"!

You COULD be desirable... I know you don't value anything I say but if only this; trust a soon to be expert, YOU COULD!

[FORD]

Originally posted by blonddgirl777
The statement about obesity is statistics and medical facts...
I didn't make it up, it is public records.



Source?

[scamper]

Originally posted by blonddgirl777
send their children to those subventioned $7.00/day daycare!

Would you give more info on what this is? I'm just curious.

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by m_dixon1984
... We could always meet halfway on this one. For every fat person that dies because you don't care to help; one child with cancer will have to die because I hate other people's kids.

M

I have a feeling you don't mean that.

But if you do, well... don't forget that those kids you hate are the future tax payers that will HELP YOUR situation (wich will get out of hand) if you don't react now! ;)

[scamper]

Originally posted by FORD
Source?

Isn't my orginal post a source?

[scamper]

Originally posted by scamper
Isn't my orginal post a source?

my mad spelling skills

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Redballjets88
since you have no reply to anything I said, does this mean I just owned you?

Now fuck off and quit talkin shit.

:rolleyes:

Fuck off you little twat.

I have no reply to anything you say, because you bring NOTHING to the table.

You know nothing of which you speak. You've never owned a home, never owned a business, never had to purchase health insurance for YOURSELF, or employees who work for you.

You don't even know the difference between "socialized" medicine and single-payer healthcare.

Get a job other than busing tables, go to school full-time, or ENLIST.

Quit living off mom and dad, and wasting my time in here, you ignorant cunt.


:rolleyes:

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by scamper
Would you give more info on what this is? I'm just curious.

In this extra-socialist province, we have this great program on full time day care.

For $7.00 (yes, $7.00) a day, you can bring your child for up to 10 hours to a daycare centre that hires strictly educated instructors/care givers.
The maximum of kids per educator is 6 todlers or 3 babies.
With that, they serve one (sometimes 2) hot meals and 2 snacks... very healthy and handmade by cooks who are aware of everyone's needs (religious, allergies etc...).
The kids get to play in a playground and go for walks (or stroller rides) on a daily basis.

But darn... we get to sypply diapers and ass wipes! L.O.L.

Really, it is a huge break for families of all classes.
The only problem is (like the one of healthcare) there is not enough money allowed in this program.

I gave my son's name when I was only 2 months pregnant and I am still waiting for a spot... (he's 8 months now).

And get a load of this;
Working women (and men) get 1 year off, paid at 75% of their salaries to stay home and raise the kid. They are entitled to their (same) job back, if they chose to return.
Fathers are allowed to 5 weeks off, paid at 75% to stay at home during those first critical weeks after the baby is born.




What, you want to move here now? :D

[WACF]

Originally posted by scamper
Would you give more info on what this is? I'm just curious.


I throw in my 2 cents...Blondegirl may have a better explaination because of where she lives.

For over a decade the Liberal government used National Subsidized DayCare as an election issue.

The idea being that working parents can have affordable day care by a registered day care center...therefore it was more affordable to have a dual income family.
Day care costs can be high making it possible that you only work for half your wage in the end.

In some cases both parents are required to work because of lower wages or higher cost of living.

It is also a provincial issue which is under the province's direction and the cost comes from your provincial budget versus a Federal Transfer.

For me...that is where it belongs...at a provincal level.

I do not think it is a Federal issue as it does not affect my National Security or Health...plus each province has a different standard of living and requirements.

Blondegirls province of Quebec has the largest program I believe.
It is also very expensive and for Quebec their debt and defecit is a huge issue.

She can get more into that...she would know more on that.


I also think that taking on a Federal program for Child Care spaces is too big...they still need to streamline Medicare.

Fix one before we badly run another one....

[WACF]

Ha....she beat me to it!

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Redballjets88
since you have no reply to anything I said, does this mean I just owned you?

Now fuck off and quit talkin shit.


NO REPLY TO ANYTHING YOU SAID?

HERE IS YOUR ENTIRE INPUT INTO THIS THREAD

YOU TELL ME WHICH POST DESERVED A REPLY, FUCKBAG



Originally posted by Redballjets88
nope. if someone chooses to smoke, they should pay their own way.

The people who can't pay for healthcare have medicare. If the US would fix that we wouldn't need this arguement.

I don't mind helping the poor and the old, but I don't want to be paying for the fuck who ODs on heroin





Originally posted by Redballjets88
this same arguement can be put towards making healthcare universal





Originally posted by Redballjets88
1. Do you have any valid points? You didn't even adress what I said. It would take as much work in the government to reform medicar/medicaid as it would to socialize.

2. I never said the next presidential election didn't matter. I feel it is extremely important and will be a turning point (good or bad) for this country.


3. Do you even read anything I say? You a blind fuck. Take the dick out of your ass and suck it.




Originally posted by Redballjets88
no points? Im not trying to make points, I'm adding input to a conversation. I go to school.

Go buy a nice car, I hear its a good way to deal with mid life crisis.





Originally posted by Redballjets88
how in the fuck do saying the election will be weak mean it is pointless? Weak would mean that it has no strong canidates. You're a fucking retard.

go buy a car get off the internet.


Yeah, you really made some valid points on the Thread Topic, junior. :rolleyes:

fucking freeloading little cunt.

MOVE OUT OF MOM'S HOUSE, OR STFU

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Seshmeister


It's good to see some people actually changing their minds in a thread for once...

It's really refreshing to see people in here with an open mind, and willing to listen to another side.

It shows a real sign of intelligence, and it feels good to know that they're now open to the concept.

:cool:

Remarkable considering scamper was the thread starter, and ended up seeing the benefits in the long run, both socially, and financially.

Those that think universal healthcare is unaffordable, fail to see the true costs we're paying RIGHT NOW.


But of course, in order to understand this, one must first actually live somewhere other than their parent's home, living off their insurance policies.

[m_dixon1984]

Originally posted by blonddgirl777
I have a feeling you don't mean that.

But if you do, well... don't forget that those kids you hate are the future tax payers that will HELP YOUR situation (wich will get out of hand) if you don't react now! ;)

Of course I don't mean it. Facetious, would best describe that statement.

You're the one who wants stop providing health care for problems people bring on themselves. I'm the one who doesn't want to support other people's kids. Lets make sure we stay on our own sides here.

M


Originally posted by blonddgirl777
WRONG... that's not exactly what I meant.

You DO need help (you sure do). I know that because on top of working as a freelance designer, raising an 8 months old baby and taking care of the home, I am training to be a fitness instructor, wich I will do part time.

A lot of people need to join a gym (fat or thin, giggly or firm, ugly or pretty...). I hear a lot of this; "I don't have time", "I hate to sweat", and the comment you just made about women not wanting to see guys like you at the gym...

I am sick of hearing excuses. And THEY ARE excuses... I know extra busy people that take the time for their health; cooking the right food instead of ordering out, walking instead of taking the car to the corner store etc...

Where does it end? (or start)?

People like you DO need help... that's why I think that you need to prevent that heart attack instead of saying that it's "inevitable" as you just mentioned.

What our governments should do, is to give a tax break to everyone that cares to join a gym. (and go), serve healthy food (instead of junk) in schools and invest in programs for smokers to quit etc...

Now do something before it's too late!

And rest assured... if I ever see you in person, I will NOT make fun of you for being fat, not eaven give you "the look"... Obesity is a problem that I want to and will help solving by teaching how to...

Now, you've climbed up on your high horse. Saving the world's people from themselves because BlondDGirl knows best. sigh. When I WANT "help", I'll ask. Otherwise, please don't presume that I "need" it.

Self-depricating humour, babe. Unlike some fatties I have no problem working out in front of women and I couldn't care less about the occasional "harrumpf" I get from those obviously disgusted. You haven't heard me complain about myself or my fat because I love me, all of me.

BTW, this is the Internet and unless you type exactly what you mean what is left unwriten remains

...see.

M

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by m_dixon1984
... Now, you've climbed up on your high horse. Saving the world's people from themselves because BlondDGirl knows best. sigh. When I WANT "help", I'll ask. Otherwise, please don't presume that I need it...

So you want US (the tax payers) to give you CPR and pump your sorry heart up when it stops beating... That's the only help you want?

That sais a lot about your laziness...

Say... how do YOU help yourself?
Ho yeah, you're probably part of that 3%... :rolleyes:

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by m_dixon1984
... BTW, this is the Internet and unless you type exactly what you mean what is left unwriten remains...
M

Boooo....:o
You should learn how to read (ans understand) other than your TV guide!

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by m_dixon1984
... I'm the one who doesn't want to support other people's kids....

Yet, you want everyone's contribution to YOUR health problem and "inevitable cardiac arrest"...

Math 101;
Where do you think money will come from (if not from those kids you hate and don't want to see/help raise)?

Just so you know, money isn't growing in Maple trees and Canada isn't exactly overpopulated!

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by blonddgirl777
Canada isn't exactly overpopulated!

That's open for debate....

[blonddgirl777]

I a socialist system (as we know it), the young & healthy, middle class worker with no kids gets to pay for everyonelse!

You fit in or you don't.

In my 20's I was more of the California type but now (besides the weather), I am totaly Québec!

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
That's open for debate....

Yep, some Kanucks on this board are just one too many! :o

[m_dixon1984]

Lets steer this topic back on track...we've gotten a little personal here.

Blonddgirl, I have no problem with your desire to improve the CDN health care system by eliminating watse and inefficiencies, and your desire to help eliminate obesity is admirable, to a point (come down from the high-horse a little and we're cool).

The waste and the inefficiencies do not include saving the lives of the people that need it, healthy or unhealthy, by choice or not. The holes in the system that allow people (patients and doctors...anyone) to take undo advantage, they need to be filled. The huge costs of running/adminstering the system need to be looked at to eliminate waste. We need to once and for all determine whether health care falls under federal or provincial jurisdiction (so the standard of care is nationwide). Putting the money where it's needed most, with the nurses and doctors and facilities, that's what our system needs. Not a bloated adminstrative nightmare full of holes that even uneducated trailer trash can find ways to abuse it.

The idea of putting restrictions on health care because of choices people have made in life, really runs against the compasionate nature under which socialized medicine was created. The system exists as it does and it's still one of the best in the world, we just need to clean it up a bit. Having fat people, kids with cancer, etc., dying because we changed the system to eliminate some people from being included does not give us a better system. We used to abort or kill off babies and children with physical defects because we thought they offered nothing to society (not just we Canada, we the human race). We learnt our lessons from those barbaric times. There's no reason to start implementing new barbaric rules because it could save a few dollars. What a great headline this would be: "Canada Eliminates Obesity Nationwide By Not Resuscitating Dying Fatties", or "Childhood Cancer Rates Reach Record Lows Because We Just Don't Care". No thanks.

Almost time for a :gulp:, maybe 2 :gulp::gulp:

M

[Hyman Roth]

Originally posted by m_dixon1984


Lets steer this topic ...


M

Outstanding!

:elvis:

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by FORD
Source?

I can't give you an internet link (I haven't look for one) but I'm sure it's there somewhere...

On that documentary I was talking about (and others I saw on eating dosorders) it was stated by the American board of Medecine Doctors.

Now are they full of shit? I am not an expert to know.

One thing for sure is you look at who's coming out od Mc Donald's, what's in some people's plates at the restaurant, the grocery carts, the elevators, people waiting in their cars to park as close to the entrance as possible (not to walk) etc... and you understand that not everybody is just "big boned".

I personally can come up with many names of people that over eat (and like shit) and are way overweight! A lot of them unhappy and out of breath at a young age and few others who just say they love them ALL of them...

The ones that tell me they won't trade their Pepsi for water... THOSE are the ones I'm talking about!

[scamper]

Originally posted by blonddgirl777
not everybody is just "big boned".

good place for a joke, but I'm trying to quit

[WACF]

Originally posted by m_dixon1984
Lets steer this topic back on track...we've gotten a little personal here.

Blonddgirl, I have no problem with your desire to improve the CDN health care system by eliminating watse and inefficiencies, and your desire to help eliminate obesity is admirable, to a point (come down from the high-horse a little and we're cool).

The waste and the inefficiencies do not include saving the lives of the people that need it, healthy or unhealthy, by choice or not. The holes in the system that allow people (patients and doctors...anyone) to take undo advantage, they need to be filled. The huge costs of running/adminstering the system need to be looked at to eliminate waste. We need to once and for all determine whether health care falls under federal or provincial jurisdiction (so the standard of care is nationwide). Putting the money where it's needed most, with the nurses and doctors and facilities, that's what our system needs. Not a bloated adminstrative nightmare full of holes that even uneducated trailer trash can find ways to abuse it.

The idea of putting restrictions on health care because of choices people have made in life, really runs against the compasionate nature under which socialized medicine was created. The system exists as it does and it's still one of the best in the world, we just need to clean it up a bit. Having fat people, kids with cancer, etc., dying because we changed the system to eliminate some people from being included does not give us a better system. We used to abort or kill off babies and children with physical defects because we thought they offered nothing to society (not just we Canada, we the human race). We learnt our lessons from those barbaric times. There's no reason to start implementing new barbaric rules because it could save a few dollars. What a great headline this would be: "Canada Eliminates Obesity Nationwide By Not Resuscitating Dying Fatties", or "Childhood Cancer Rates Reach Record Lows Because We Just Don't Care". No thanks.

Almost time for a :gulp:, maybe 2 :gulp::gulp:

M

Nice points.

It is like deciding if a drunk driver crashes and hurts himself do you let him die for his bad choice of getting behind the wheel.

Should we let drug addicts kill themselves?

What about the mentaly ill?

There is a reason it is called Universal...

Universal Health Care started as a Provincial service in my Province...it was later used as a Federal template for a National program.

The fact is very few provinces can afford it without Ferderal Transfer Payments.

I can guarantee you Saskatchewan could have never maintaned it by only taxing the province's people and businesses...eventually business will leave for provinces with cheaper taxes...the story of Sk right there!

The problem is it is over administrated at a Federal Level...then once again at a Provincial level.
It is too big for Ottawa to administer a hospital elsewhere in the country...I want none of that!
The province needs to determine it's needs and then give the proper service using the Federal money.
If you fuck it up you are then judged at the polls...we have that going on here right now with nurse shortages.

Users fees should be in place for "nuisance calls".

To many goverment jobs in the way of making sure all the money goes to the health board.

It needs to be streamlined...but overall I will take it as is rather than thrown away.

[WACF]

Originally posted by scamper
good place for a joke, but I'm trying to quit

What can you do...sometimes the jokes write themselves...

[m_dixon1984]

Originally posted by blonddgirl777
Yet, you want everyone's contribution to YOUR health problem and "inevitable cardiac arrest"...

Math 101;
Where do you think money will come from (if not from those kids you hate and don't want to see/help raise)?

Just so you know, money isn't growing in Maple trees and Canada isn't exactly overpopulated!
Lets see...I have a problem with my tax dollars being spent on procreation (child tax benefit), daycare, and snack packs and because of this I have to DIE since I wouldn't stop eating junk food.


Biology 101:
The female human body does not require federal or provincial money in order to produce a baby. Of this, I'm quite sure. They may teach you differently in Quebec since they're obviously trying to increase the population with their child friendly policies.

I suspect the tax payer base will be just fine if parents have to pay for child care and school lunches, and don't receive a child benefit subsidy. I really am sick of people having kids with the expectation that the tax payer is going to help them.

In my plan nobody has to die. In yours, blonddgirl, seems to me like the obese get a free pass to the afterlife while the kids get a nice light snack.

M

[Hyman Roth]

Originally posted by WACF


...The province needs to determine it's needs and then give the proper service using the Federal money. ...

What if you have 50 States instead of 13(?) Provinces?

Will there be disparate treatment at the State level?

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by m_dixon1984
Lets steer this topic back on track...we've gotten a little personal here.

Blonddgirl, I have no problem with your desire to improve the CDN health care system by eliminating watse and inefficiencies, and your desire to help eliminate obesity is admirable, to a point (come down from the high-horse a little and we're cool)...

Deep inside, I am one Mother Teresa on a high horse...
I love to help others (weather they want it or not) and I am very generous by nature.

I've worked as a fashion designer all my life and I used to love it a lot. Now, I do it for the money only. I am sick of "contributing" to the fact that teenage girls (and mature women) in general are never happy with their shapes. The fashion industey is in big part, to blame.

Also, I am no queen of good nutrition either...
My problem is more of UNDER eating. I can live off coffee, nachos and cocktails. There where some days when I didn't eat at all, giving the excuse that I was too busy working. When pregnant, I saw a nutritionist and FORCED myself to eat. It felt great.

I know it's not that easy to take care of our health...

[WACF]

Originally posted by Hyman Roth
What if you have 50 States instead of 13(?) Provinces?

Will there be disparate treatment at the State level?

My bad.

I should of mentioned a Federal standard of service.

You will have minimum standards to meet.

If you can provide better or more so be it.

Naturally...just like us...you have richer States and poorer States.

This is where Federal money will help lift the poorer States up....

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by m_dixon1984
... The idea of putting restrictions on health care because of choices people have made in life, really runs against the compasionate nature under which socialized medicine was created...

I agree.

In my very first post, I was stating what I (personally) care to pay for and not... That's just my own opinion and since everyone's opinion can be very different on that matter, our health care system cannot be based on that.

I was just making a point to those who don't live with socialized healthcare, showing them the 2 sides of the medal. The opinions on such healthcare programs is a never ending debate EVERYWHERE.

It would be impossible to draw the line as to know who diserves it and who doesn't. And who in hell could be the one to draw that line? Nobody.

When I pass out after a blood test because I haven't had breakfast (just 'cause I'm not hungry in the morning), the nurses do all they can to "bring me back". Do I diserve that? According to my own judgment; NO.
But I'm sure glad someone takes me off that dirty floor!

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by m_dixon1984
... In my plan nobody has to die. In yours, blonddgirl, seems to me like the obese get a free pass to the afterlife while the kids get a nice light snack.

M

No.

Beleive it or not, as much as I can benefit from all that government "baby help", I don't agree that those benefits should be that big.

Seriously, why would we need to pay only $7.00/day ??? What do you get these days for less than $1.00/hour?
I know couples that make well over 200K/year and they get the same break than the minimum wage single Mom.!

If we'd have to be more responsible for raising our own children AND more responsible for taking care of our own health (in a preventive maner)... that province wouldn't be so fuck'n broke!

[WACF]

Originally posted by blonddgirl777
No.

Beleive it or not, as much as I can benefit from all that government "baby help", I don't agree that those benefits should be that big.

Seriously, why would we need to pay only $7.00/day ??? What do you get these days for less than $1.00/hour?
I know couples that make well over 200K/year and they get the same break than the minimum wage single Mom.!

If we'd have to be more responsible for raising our own children AND more responsible for taking care of our own health (in a preventive maner)... that province wouldn't be so fuck'n broke!

Yes...you guys have a serious situation.

The problem is it is going to take deep cuts to do it...political suicide in your province.

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by WACF
Yes...you guys have a serious situation.

The problem is it is going to take deep cuts to do it...political suicide in your province.

This province is trouble, I tell ya!
Socialist to the extreme left, we are being fucked up the ass by all those (ideologist) politicians!

[m_dixon1984]

I'd very much like to see the numbers crunched properly so we could have actual facts on this matter.

What costs the system more? A fat person with health problems early in life and a shortened life expectancy (or a smoker, drug-user, etc) or a healthy person who needs little health care early on but depends on the system later and longer in life.

My feeling is they balance out or come close to it. Blonddgirl, you obviously feel that treating fatties (and others unhealthy by choice) costs the system too much.

I'm willing to change my opinion and reluctantly** support gov't sponsored health initiatives for the obese if it's ever proven that they cost the system more money than longer lived healthy people with normal old age health problems. With the baby boom generation entering retirement i suspect old healthy people may cost more, possibly much, much more.

**I'm actually fully against any gov't intervention. My support would be reluctant because I accept too much gov't intervention in our lives as a matter of course. Ordinarilly, I'd be saying it's my body and it's non of the goverment's god-damned business what I do with it.

Until the costs are proven I expect the gov't to stay out of our personal lives (let the press try to guilt and pressure us into getting healthy - no new taxes or laws will do it) and give us health treatment when we need it, no questions asked (except maybe what you're fatally allergic to; I'll allow that question to be asked).

I understand your desire to encourage a healthy lifestyle, blonddgirl, but should it really be a gov't issue (you did menton supporting gov't programs to encourage healthy living)? Our freedoms are based mostly on our right to self-determination (the pursuit of happiness...not the pursuit of "healthy"ness) and the gov'ts role of protecting that right. I'd rather our gov't focused it's energies on protecting us from our enemies, ensuring the rule of law is maintained, that the right to privacy is preserved, and that our citizens receive medical attention when they need it.

Peace.

M

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by m_dixon1984
... I understand your desire to encourage a healthy lifestyle, blonddgirl, but should it really be a gov't issue (you did menton supporting gov't programs to encourage healthy living)?...

I think so but again... our health system is much more (if not only) about curing by medication than educating and preventing...

Sometimes, I really wonder if they'd rather see us all dead BEFORE we hit pen$ion age and are in need of geriatric care!

It's a conspiracy, I tell ya!
L.O.L.

[LoungeMachine]

I have a solution.

Nuke Canada.

:gulp:

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by m_dixon1984
... Our freedoms are based mostly on our right to self-determination (the pursuit of happiness...not the pursuit of "healthy"ness) and the gov'ts role of protecting that right...

The government will keep me happy if they help keep me and my family healthy, that's for sure!
As far as I'm concerned, Healthy DOES = Happy... and I know a lot of people who think that way.

I don't see how someone's freedom would be at stake if they offer a tax break on healthy food and gym. subscriptions?
For exemple, the non-smokers already chose to avoid paying a big amount of tax by not buying those cigarettes and the smokers can still go on paying as they chose.

This will always be a free country where everyone's lifestyle will remain their own personal choice.

We have a lot of problems to solve but FREEDOM... we earned it and we'll keep it!
I'm not worried at all...

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
I have a solution.

Nuke Canada.

:gulp:

Let me pack my stuff first...

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by blonddgirl777
Let me pack my stuff first...

How long could eyeliner and handcuffs take to pack?

:gulp:

[Redballjets88]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
:rolleyes:

Fuck off you little twat.

I have no reply to anything you say, because you bring NOTHING to the table.

You know nothing of which you speak. You've never owned a home, never owned a business, never had to purchase health insurance for YOURSELF, or employees who work for you.

You don't even know the difference between "socialized" medicine and single-payer healthcare.

Get a job other than busing tables, go to school full-time, or ENLIST.

Quit living off mom and dad, and wasting my time in here, you ignorant cunt.


:rolleyes:


I work at in child care at the local school district and go to school 14 hours this semester.


Not a busboy, Full-time student.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Redballjets88
I work at in child care at the local school district and go to school 14 hours this semester.


Not a busboy, Full-time student.

Child care? :confused:

Frightening thought.

14 hours a semester is fulltime?

:rolleyes:

That's not the story you gave us earlier....

Welp, regardless....

Stay on topic, know what you're talking about, or STFU.

Is that too hard to understand?

:gulp:

[WACF]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
How long could eyeliner and handcuffs take to pack?

:gulp:

You question a woman's ability to take forever to pack?

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by WACF
You question a woman's ability to take forever to pack?

LMAO

What was I thinking....

:gulp:

Which handcuffs to pack alone can take an hour....

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by Ellyllions
We shouldn't have to take money out of our pockets to pay for anyone else's healthcare.


So I presume you agree with gw's veto this week?

[Nickdfresh]

No, we (Lounge and I) "converted her.":D

[Nickdfresh]

Jesus, this became like the Canadian civil war thread! What happened?

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
... Which handcuffs to pack alone can take an hour....

I don't question myself anymore...
I pack 'em all!

... And let the man carry ALL the luggage... :p

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Jesus, this became like the Canadian civil war thread! What happened?

Business as usual at the Army!










That's why my friends and I are done arguing about politics (especially health care issues) at dinners and partys...
We know each other too well to know that we won't solve any problems in our living rooms...
With our busy scedules and lifestyles, we'd rather talk about sex and music, while drinking our favourite beverage!

Cheers!

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by WACF
You question a woman's ability to take forever to pack?

L.O.L.

When we moved to the States (16 years ago), we left in a car with some of our important belongings...

My husband had brought his clothes, some shoes, his drum sticks, pads and partitions, a razor and other guy stuff... all packed in one hockey bag.

I had 3 big suitcases... one with clothes, one with shoes and one with all the girl stuff...

When the custom officer asked me to open my suitcases, he couldn't beleive the shoe one. He thought it was suspicious, so he asked me to empty it all for further searching. When he realised that there was nothing else but "innocent" shoes in there, he looked at me funny and said; "Now that's a big collection"!
I was so proud! :D

Still, I regreted having to leave some behind!

[blonddgirl777]

I have 3 big closets full of clothes + my old one at my parent's house...

And I never have anything to wear!

[m_dixon1984]

Originally posted by blonddgirl777
Business as usual at the Army!










That's why my friends and I are done arguing about politics (especially health care issues) at dinners and partys...
We know each other too well to know that we won't solve any problems in our living rooms...
With our busy scedules and lifestyles, we'd rather talk about sex and music, while drinking our favourite beverage!

Cheers!
Now there's something we can both agree on!!!

:D :D :D :D :D :D

Less than 4 days until my first show!! I'm so fucking pumped!

:killer:

I started seeing some negative threads popping up and I'm ignoring every one. The positive reviews I've read in the meetup threads are coming from respected Army members and that's all I need to know.

Bring on the Mighty Van Halen!!!

M

[blonddgirl777]

So I guess you are attending 2 shows?
MTL and T.O.?

[m_dixon1984]

Tickets are paid for!!

Shitty MTL seats, sect302 AA 16, but I shelled out for a 4-star ticket in T.O.

I've seen VanGaygar 8 times but VH not even once. I feel like I'm going to see my favorite band for the first time. It feels fantastic!!

Like I said...I'm PUMPED, PUMPED, PUMPED!!!

M

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by m_dixon1984
... Like I said...I'm PUMPED, PUMPED, PUMPED!!!

M

I hear ya!

If you read the thread I started; "Thank You Sparkie D.", you'll read how excited I was...
My heart was pounding, I was dancing around the house with the phone on speaker!

I can't wait, it will be like being 16 again! :D

[m_dixon1984]

Originally posted by blonddgirl777
I hear ya!

If you read the thread I started; "Thank You Sparkie D.", you'll read how excited I was...
My heart was pounding, I was dancing around the house with the phone on speaker!

I can't wait, it will be like being 16 again! :D

I was reading it as you were posting it. Loved every post. It was great!!

Like I said, I've been paying attention to what the Army respected have been saying.

M

[Blackflag]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
But to dismiss those of us who HAVE good coverage, but still feel deep, down inside that it's a birthright in this country [or should be] to make sure every citizen has quality healtcare regardless of their ability to pay is ridiculous.

And I commend you for feeling so strongly about it. Maybe you should go to medical school, then volunteer your services...if you think the service should be free.

But since that will never happen...you should give your money away to others so they can buy health insurance.

That's called "charity."

"Charity" is a long way from a "right." If you're going to claim something is a right, it would help if you could point to anything in writing to support your position. "I'm a charitable guy" does not equal a right.




Originally posted by LoungeMachine

And one that generally comes from the far right.

Is that how you form an opinion - by first being told what is "left" and "right?" Baa.

[Nickdfresh]

Blackflag, forum simpleton - providing junior high school level opinions daily! :)

[VHdamaco]

i'm not to in the know with anything really, but this has been interesting to read...

most of you brought valid points to the conversation and maybe when i have more time i'll throw my two cents in as someone from a different background/perspective...

but for now i will answer the only question i know the answer to Lounge...

full time students for college is only 12 hours...

when it takes 120 credit hours to graduate with your b.a. or b.s. its why a lot of us are on the 5 year plan...

[Hyman Roth]

tic tic tic tick...boom

http://rich96.freepgs.com/images/777.htm

SFW