The BCE - Meet The Players Pt. I

[LoungeMachine]

9/11 Security
Courtesy of Marvin Bush

Marvin P. Bush, the president’s younger brother, was a principal in a company called Securacom that provided security for the World Trade Center, United Airlines, and Dulles International Airport. The company, Burns noted, was backed by KuwAm, a Kuwaiti-American investment firm on whose board Marvin Burns also served. [Utne]
According to its present CEO, Barry McDaniel, the company had an ongoing contract to handle security at the World Trade Center "up to the day the buildings fell down."

The company lists as government clients "the U.S. Army, U.S. Navy, U.S Air force, and the Department of Justice," in projects that "often require state-of-the-art security solutions for classified or high-risk government sites."

Stratesec (Securacom) differs from other security companies which separate the function of consultant from that of service provider. The company defines itself as a "single-source" provider of "end-to-end" security services, including everything from diagnosis of existing systems to hiring subcontractors to installing video and electronic equipment. It also provides armored vehicles and security guards.

The Dulles Internation contract is another matter. Dulles is regarded as "absolutely a sensitive airport," according to security consultant Wayne Black, head of a Florida-based security firm, due to its location, size, and the number of international carriers it serves.

Black has not heard of Stratesec, but responds that for one company to handle security for both airports and airlines is somewhat unusual. It is also delicate for a security firm serving international facilities to be so interlinked with a foreign-owned company: "Somebody knew somebody," he suggested, or the contract would have been more closely scrutinized.

As Black points out, "when you [a company] have a security contract, you know the inner workings of everything." And if another company is linked with the security company, then "What's on your computer is on their computer." [American Reporter]

A heightened WTC security alert was lifted on 9/6/2001...

The World Trade Center was destroyed just days after a heightened security alert was lifted at the landmark 110-story towers, security personnel said yesterday [September 11]. Daria Coard, 37, a guard at Tower One, said the security detail had been working 12-hour shifts for the past two weeks because of numerous phone threats. But on Thursday [September 6], bomb-sniffing dogs were abruptly removed. [NY Newsday]

...there was a power down in WTC 2 the weekend before 9/11...

On the weekend of 9/8, 9/9 there was a 'power down' condition in WTC tower 2, the south tower. This power down condition meant there was no electrical supply for approx 36 hrs from floor 50 up... "Of course without power there were no security cameras, no security locks on doors and many, many 'engineers' coming in and out of the tower." [WingTV]

...Bush's cousin had a fortunate change of venue for a September 11 business conference...

President Bush's cousin should have been in the World Trade Centre when it was attacked. Jim Pierce, managing director of AON Corporations, had arranged a business conference on the 105th floor of the South Tower where its New York offices were based. But his group was too large so they decided to move across the street to the Millennium Hotel. [Annova]

...and it just so happens that Marvin was in New York on 9/11.

Both WTC 6 and WTC 7 were evacuated within minutes of Flight 11 striking WTC 1, but this did not happen in the twin towers. There were no evacuation announcements in WTC 1 following the plane strike, and workers were encouraged to stay in their building...

Dan Baumbach - WTC 1 Survivor:

Dan Baumbach, 24, a software engineer from Merrick, was stunned to find that building officials in One World Trade Center were telling workers not to evacuate even after the first jet struck. "You can try it, but it's at your own risk," he quoted one official as telling a group of 100 people on the 75th floor. Many chose to follow that advice; Baumbach continued his descent from the 80th floor and survived, but only after braving the debris that fell when the neighboring tower collapsed. "The reason we got out was because we didn't listen," he said. [Newsday]

"In the neighboring south tower people were also evacuating, but an announcement over the PA system tells them their building is secure and they can return to their desks..."
WMV video download (43kB)



Stanley Praimnath - WTC 2 Survivor:

'If they had continued on and exited the building, all of their lives would have been spared. As it was, that's not the way it happened. "As soon as we reached the concourse level, the security guard stopped us and said, 'Where are you going?' Stanley explained about seeing the fire in Tower One. According to Stanley, the guard said, "Oh, that was just an accident. Two World Trade is secured. Go back to your office."' [Mercola]

"Today it is still a mystery why no-one in the towers reached the roof..."


WMV video download (145kB)



The solution to the mystery is simple - the roof doors were locked, as were many stairwell doors.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

WTC surveillance tapes feared missing
Imagine my surprise...

Surveillance tapes and maintenance logs are among the missing evidence as investigators try to figure out why the World Trade Center collapsed, federal officials said Monday. ... The lost records probably contain vital information that could help answer questions, Sunder said. Investigators are trying to locate copies of many destroyed documents from the building's owners and city agencies. [FortWayne.com]

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/911security.html

[LoungeMachine]

RESEARCHER
Marvin Bush: mysterious death - connections to 9/11?
Thu Oct 16 04:30:04 2003
64.140.158.100

Marvin Bush Employee's mysterious death - connections to 9/11?
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/101003_bush_death.html

A bizarre story, which appeared only in Washington Post so far.
Wayne Madsen thinks, there might be more behind it.
Did Bertha Champagne know more about Stratasec?



October 10 , 2003, 1200 PDT, (FTW) --

By Wayne Madsen

WASHINGTON, At around 9 PM on September 29, Fairfax County, Virginia police responded to a 911 call describing an accident. However, they soon discovered they were not dealing with a routine emergency but the mysterious death of an employee of the 47-year old brother of President George W. Bush, venture capitalist Marvin Bush.

Sixty-two year old Bertha Champagne, described as a long time "baby sitter" for Marvin and Margaret Bush's two children, son Walker, 13, and daughter Marshall, 17, was found crushed to death by her own vehicle in a driveway in front of the Bush family home in the Alexandria section of Fairfax County. Champagne reportedly lived at the Bush family home.
( Read More... | 4129 bytes in body )
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/101003_bush_death.html


Champagne had left the residence to retrieve something from her car, which police say had somehow been left in gear. According to the police report, the car rolled forward and pinned the woman between it and a small building next to the driveway (possibly a checkpoint built by the Secret Service when Marvin's father, George H. W. Bush, was president).

The car crossed Edgehill Drive, a small street in front of the Bush compound. The vehicle then crossed a busy two-lane street, Fort Hunt Road, finally coming to rest in a wooded area across the street that adjoins the prestigious Belle Haven Country Club. No explanations have been offered as to why the vehicle did not move until Champagne was in a position to be crushed.

Champagne was pronounced dead on arrival at Inova Mount Vernon Hospital. Courtney Young, a spokesperson for the Fairfax County police was surprised when asked about the circumstances surrounding Champagne's death. She indicated the media was primarily focused on another Fairfax County story, the kidnapping and holdup of the wife of New Hampshire Senator Judd Gregg on October 7. More mystifying is the fact that the Washington Post waited almost an entire week to publish the story about the baby sitter's death.

The incident occurred on September 29, but the Post did not report it until October 5 and buried it on page 3 of the Metro section. Nevertheless, the Washington Post was the only media outlet to cover the story at all. Young said police still did not know the exact cause of Champagne's death.

Young said the police had posted the incident on its web site in a press release, although the report makes no mention of Marvin Bush. It reads: A 62-year-old Alexandria area woman died after being pinned between a rolling car and a building. The crash happened on Monday, around 9 pm, near the intersection of Fort Hunt Road and Edgehill Drive. Bertha Champagne had gone outside to get something from a car in a driveway.

The car, which was left in gear, began to roll forward. Champagne was pinned between the car and a small building next to the driveway. The car continued to roll down the driveway, crossed Fort Hunt Road, and came to rest in a wooded area. Champagne was taken to Inova Mount Vernon Hospital where she was pronounced dead.

The press release is dated September 30 at 1330 (1:30 PM), some sixteen and a half hours after the incident occurred. The police were well aware of Marvin Bush's controversial role in serving on corporate boards for companies associated with the 911 terrorist attacks, however, they emphasized that Champagne's death was merely a quirky accident and no foul play was involved.

...According to two articles in the Progressive Populist written by Margie Burns, from 1993 to 2000, Bush served on the board of Securacom (since renamed Stratesec). The chairman of the board of Stratesec is Wirt D. Walker III, a cousin of Marvin and George W. Bush. Securacom had contracts to provide security for Dulles International Airport (the airport from which American Airlines Flight 77, which crashed into the Pentagon, originated) and the World Trade Center in New York.

Securacom's backers include a number of Kuwaitis through a company called KuwAm Corp (Kuwaiti-American Corp.). Stratesec also has Saudi investors.

Walker also serves as a managing director of KuwAm, which maintains offices within the Watergate complex along with Riggs Bank, on whose board Bush's uncle, Jonathan Bush, sits. Saudi Princess Haifa al Faisal, the wife of Saudi Ambassador to the US Prince Bandar, used a Riggs account to funnel money to Omar al Bayoumi and Osama Basnan, two Saudi students in California associated with two of the 911 hijackers.

More at FTW

Please check out also Marvin Bush at 911review.org
http://www.911review.org/Sept11Wiki/Bush,Marvin.shtml
====================================
Bush Family Babysitter Killed in Fairfax
Sunday, October 5, 2003; Page C03
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A46190-2003Oct5.html

A babysitter for the family of Marvin Bush was found dead Monday night outside the family's Fairfax County home, and police said that she had been crushed when her car rolled into her, pinning her between the vehicle and an outbuilding on the property.

Fairfax County police said Bertha Champagne, 62, had worked for several years for Marvin Bush, President Bush's brother, and lived at the family home on Fort Hunt Road in the Alexandria section of Fairfax.

Officer Courtney Young, a police spokeswoman, said Champagne had gone outside the house about 9 p.m. Monday, reportedly to retrieve something from her car.

The vehicle had been in gear, police said, and appeared to have rolled in her direction when Champagne was in front of it.

After pinning Champagne, Young said, the car continued rolling toward Fort Hunt Road, near the intersection of Edgehill Drive.

Champagne was taken to an area hospital and declared dead that evening. Young said she did not know the cause of death.

© 2003 The Washington Post Company
===============================================

[LoungeMachine]

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[Nitro Express]

I'm neutral on the whole 9/11 was an inside job set of thinking. I wouldn't put it past our govt. to do such a thing but there hasn't been an conclusive evidence.

I wondered why the steel fail while jet fuel burns at a much lower tempurature than it would take to melt the steel and I also wondered why fires burned for so long in the rubble. The professor who made the thermite argument has some convincing points in his theory.

Also the video above explains how those thermite charges could have been installed in the World Trade Center.

As far as asbestos goes. I used to do asbestos removal. The removing of asbestos was a business cooked up by Lou Costalano who ran the Gambino family in New York. Asbetos fibers are dangerouse but asbestos sealed inside of a wall is perfectly safe. As long as it is not disturbed it's fine and nothing is better to fireproof the steel in high rise buildings. What makes asbestos dangerouse is inhaling the fibers so you wear a respirator. Silica sand is dangerouse to breath around as well and will give you silicosis. The whole asbestos thing has been blown way our of preportion and is mostly a money making scheme cooked up by the mob.

[DrMaddVibe]

And the people on those planes?

[FORD]

Originally posted by DrMaddVibe
And the people on those planes?

Operation Northwoods, which was concieved by the BCE wing of the CIA in the early 1960's, but wisely rejected by the Kennedy administration, included provisions for false passenger lists of "victims", even going so far as to staqe funerals for these non existent people.

The Flight 93 "hero" story reads so much like a Hollywood plot, that I wouldn't be surprised at all to find out that it was entirely fiction. The woman who was calling herself "Lisa Beamer" on TV, supposedly the wife of alleged hero "Todd Beamer" was an obvious BCE cheerleader and likely CIA agent.

And what are the odds that the plane which supposedly hit the Pentagon contained DOD employees, Raytheon employees ("defense" contractor) and BCE cheerleader Barbara Olson, whose alleged cell phone call to husband and known liar Ted Olson was the sole source of the "box cutter" story.

And lets not forget the part where some of the alleged 9-11 hijackers aren't even fucking dead!! (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1559151.stm)

[jhale667]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
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Okay, that's some heavy shit right there.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by DrMaddVibe
And the people on those planes?

WTF does that have to do with the subject of this thread?

It's not about the planes, boxcutters, the Pentagon.....

It's the FACT that the PRESIDENT'S FUCKING BROTHER was involved with the SECURITY of the WTC at the time leading up to 9/11

Funny Chimpy never mentioned THAT in any speeches.... :rolleyes:

[Nitro Express]

Originally posted by FORD
Operation Northwoods, which was concieved by the BCE wing of the CIA in the early 1960's, but wisely rejected by the Kennedy administration, included provisions for false passenger lists of "victims", even going so far as to staqe funerals for these non existent people.

The Flight 93 "hero" story reads so much like a Hollywood plot, that I wouldn't be surprised at all to find out that it was entirely fiction. The woman who was calling herself "Lisa Beamer" on TV, supposedly the wife of alleged hero "Todd Beamer" was an obvious BCE cheerleader and likely CIA agent.

And what are the odds that the plane which supposedly hit the Pentagon contained DOD employees, Raytheon employees ("defense" contractor) and BCE cheerleader Barbara Olson, whose alleged cell phone call to husband and known liar Ted Olson was the sole source of the "box cutter" story.

And lets not forget the part where some of the alleged 9-11 hijackers aren't even fucking dead!! (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1559151.stm)

Are you saying the planes were flown by remote control? My brother-in-law is a commercial pilot almost ready to retire and he says a big problem with the newer pilots is they tend to rely on the automatic systems which cause trouble in bad weather and on slick runways. The airline he works for requires manual crew landings. The autopilot can actually land the plane now.

There is the technology to fly an airliner by remote control but I'm skeptical because one plane makes a last second turn into the building.

[Nitro Express]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
WTF does that have to do with the subject of this thread?

It's not about the planes, boxcutters, the Pentagon.....

It's the FACT that the PRESIDENT'S FUCKING BROTHER was involved with the SECURITY of the WTC at the time leading up to 9/11

Funny Chimpy never mentioned THAT in any speeches.... :rolleyes:

Not to mention the shut down and maintenance people fishing wires all over the building. A physics professor at BYU (A big Bush supporting school) said from his perspective, thermite charges were used to bring the buildings down. This guy stuck his neck right out for ridicule in a community that invites Dick Chenney to give the commencement speech.

So I read what he had to say and it's interesting.

[FORD]

Originally posted by Nitro Express
Are you saying the planes were flown by remote control? My brother-in-law is a commercial pilot almost ready to retire and he says a big problem with the newer pilots is they tend to rely on the automatic systems which cause trouble in bad weather and on slick runways. The airline he works for requires manual crew landings. The autopilot can actually land the plane now.

There is the technology to fly an airliner by remote control but I'm skeptical because one plane makes a last second turn into the building.

Probably about 6 months before the 9-11 attacks, there was a story in the news about remote control technology being used in passenger jet aircraft. The stated purpose, ironically enough, was to be used against hijackers, by taking control of the plane from the ground, and overriding all cockpit control of the plane.

That article has been completely scrubbed from the net. You gotta wonder why that's the case.

[stringfelowhawk]

Well, its obvious the technology exists cause airliners were using it to test less flamable jet fuel that won't ignite on impact and its been on discovery channel a few times already. I believe they used a 707's for those tests.

[DrMaddVibe]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
WTF does that have to do with the subject of this thread?

It's not about the planes, boxcutters, the Pentagon.....

It's the FACT that the PRESIDENT'S FUCKING BROTHER was involved with the SECURITY of the WTC at the time leading up to 9/11

Funny Chimpy never mentioned THAT in any speeches.... :rolleyes:

Have a Pall Mall, a bottle of Midol and a tall glass of STFU!

Don't you have band practice?

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by DrMaddVibe
Have a Pall Mall, a bottle of Midol and a tall glass of STFU!

Don't you have band practice?

Brilliant as usual. :rolleyes:

I'd ask about life at Jiffy Lube and your wife's progress with Jenny Craig, but why bother....

Monday, Monday.........

Ah, wtf... Call in sick tomorrow.

:gulp:

[jhale667]

This is also interesting...a guy from MIT...

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[DrMaddVibe]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Brilliant as usual. :rolleyes:

I'd ask about life at Jiffy Lube and your wife's progress with Jenny Craig, but why bother....

Monday, Monday.........

Ah, wtf... Call in sick tomorrow.

:gulp:

Ladies and gentlemen...Kip Winger!

If only his musical talent rivaled his sense of humor. He's had more hits than he has jokes. Still playing at the Holiday Inns though.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by DrMaddVibe
Ladies and gentlemen...Kip Winger!

If only his musical talent rivaled his sense of humor. He's had more hits than he has jokes. Still playing at the Holiday Inns though.

Pretty ironic.

You commenting on anybody's musical talent or sense of humor. :D

Neither a strong suit of your's....

:gulp:


Don't worry, we're getting to your hero Jeb soon....

[DrMaddVibe]

My hero?

Beavis and Butthead for ruining your trainwreck of a band.

[LoungeMachine]

Keep trying.

You never have anything to offer the forum topics, so maybe if you keep reaching, someday you'll post something funny.

or even original.

Intelligent would be asking too much, I know.

:gulp:

[DLR'sCock]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
WTF does that have to do with the subject of this thread?

It's not about the planes, boxcutters, the Pentagon.....

It's the FACT that the PRESIDENT'S FUCKING BROTHER was involved with the SECURITY of the WTC at the time leading up to 9/11

Funny Chimpy never mentioned THAT in any speeches.... :rolleyes:


I think I remember first reading about his involvement there within a week or two afterwards.

Also within the following weeks I read about the buildings being shut down for security inspections supposedly....

Didn't a former FBI director die in the WTC???

I am sure the truth is somewhere in between the conspiracy and the official.....but we will never know....




ah well, funny though...nothing to see here people....

[FORD]

Originally posted by DLR'sCock

Didn't a former FBI director die in the WTC???



John P O'Neill was a deputy director of the FBI in charge of counter-terrorism under the Clinton administration, and the early days of the Chimpministration.

O'Neill was investigating links between islamic charities ran by Bin Laden brothers and possible links to terrorists in Afghanistan when the BCE cancelled the investigation, because they were afraid it would hurt the oil/gas pipeline deal they had signed with the Taliban in 1997, yet still had not been built 4 years later.

O'Neill quit the FBI in disgust. Eventually he took a job as director of security for the World Trade Center. Must have been working for whomever it was taking over after Marvin Bush's contract expired.

O'Neill's first day on the job was also his last....... 9/11/2001.

Ironically, his office was in the second tower, and was just arriving at work when the first plane hit. He could have been completely out of harms way, but insisted on helping with the evacuation attempts. He was killed in the tower's implosion :(

[Nitro Express]

Originally posted by FORD
Probably about 6 months before the 9-11 attacks, there was a story in the news about remote control technology being used in passenger jet aircraft. The stated purpose, ironically enough, was to be used against hijackers, by taking control of the plane from the ground, and overriding all cockpit control of the plane.

That article has been completely scrubbed from the net. You gotta wonder why that's the case.

They fly those drones from controls halfway around the world. Some plans can't fly without computers making fine adjustments on the control surfaces here and there. So yeah, the technology is here and it's possible.

[DrMaddVibe]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
You never have anything to offer the forum topics, so maybe if you keep reaching, someday you'll post something funny.

or even original.



Really?

Then why this PM?

"Hey
POJO and I are planning a trick on WARF

The Celebrity Roast is going to actually be on HIM

Get some material ready, we'll let you know when.

Yeah, you're still a tool, BUT you're funny as hell, and would make a good roaster.

You In?"


Guess that makes you fucking WRONG again!

Maybe you should put your tutu and tights back on.

[LoungeMachine]

Since that PM you've been posting the SAME lame kip winger jokes for 2 years, moron.

2 years ago you had game.

Now you're boring, redundant, and stupid.

Well, you were always stupid.....

:gulp:

Have fun at Jiffy Lube today !!!

[DLR'sCock]

Originally posted by FORD
John P O'Neill was a deputy director of the FBI in charge of counter-terrorism under the Clinton administration, and the early days of the Chimpministration.

O'Neill was investigating links between islamic charities ran by Bin Laden brothers and possible links to terrorists in Afghanistan when the BCE cancelled the investigation, because they were afraid it would hurt the oil/gas pipeline deal they had signed with the Taliban in 1997, yet still had not been built 4 years later.

O'Neill quit the FBI in disgust. Eventually he took a job as director of security for the World Trade Center. Must have been working for whomever it was taking over after Marvin Bush's contract expired.

O'Neill's first day on the job was also his last....... 9/11/2001.

Ironically, his office was in the second tower, and was just arriving at work when the first plane hit. He could have been completely out of harms way, but insisted on helping with the evacuation attempts. He was killed in the tower's implosion :(

OK, yes you are right FORD, I do recall now about the canceled investigations.

[Blackflag]

I don't understand the theory behind this conspiracy.

Why would you need access to security inside the building in order to ram a plane into it?

[FORD]

Originally posted by Blackflag
I don't understand the theory behind this conspiracy.

Why would you need access to security inside the building in order to ram a plane into it?

You have to access the buildings to place the thermite charges for the implosion of the towers (1, 2, and 7)

[Blackflag]

Just curious...did you type that with a straight face?

Ok, I'll play along...if you were going to plant bombs in the building, then why use a plane at all? Why not just frame terrorists for blowing up the building? One or the other is sufficient, don't you think?

And I don't want to spoil the fun...but who would intentionally blow up tower 7? I mean, after the first two, who gives a fuck about 7? Funny stuff.

[FORD]

Originally posted by Blackflag
Just curious...did you type that with a straight face?

Ok, I'll play along...if you were going to plant bombs in the building, then why use a plane at all? Why not just frame terrorists for blowing up the building? One or the other is sufficient, don't you think?

And I don't want to spoil the fun...but who would intentionally blow up tower 7? I mean, after the first two, who gives a fuck about 7? Funny stuff.

The whole purpose of the 9-11 operation was designed for psychological effect, as well as the actual physical damage.

The plane crash - at least that of the second tower, viewed live on television by millions - was the instant physical horror. Most assumed the first plane was an accident.

Cue the Pentagon incident... if the VERY CORE of the US Defense system wasn't safe, who the fuck WAS??? Never mind that the section of the Pentagon in question had been "closed for repairs" for months, and could have very well been rigged to explode and collapse itself. It certainly wasn't hit by any fucking Boeing 757 in any case.

Then, the implosion of the towers for the final shock to the mental system of millions, complete with media whores babbling on screen about "possible death tolls as high as 50,000"

The whole thing fit the exact specifications of what PNAC spelled out in their manifesto: A new Pearl Harbor that would scare the American public into accepting their agenda for global fascism and unending war.

[Blackflag]

I don't want to be a dick...but you don't think an exploding building has psychological effect? Tower 1 explodes, burning, people jumping out, collapse...then turn to tower 2 and it explodes, too? Still doesn't explain tower 7.

I mean, I wouldn't put it past these fuckers...but it's just a stretch. To make this theory fly, you need thermite bombs, remote control planes, no passengers dying, every volunteer going through the rubble to ignore evidence of bombs...where does area 51 and the illuminati fit in? Were they in times square with Elvis?

Come on, for fuck's sake. You're a smart guy...so I give you a respectful "negro, please."

[DrMaddVibe]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Since that PM you've been posting the SAME lame kip winger jokes for 2 years, moron.

It was February.



Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Now you're boring, redundant, and stupid.


So, I'm exactly like your last record!



Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Have fun at Jiffy Lube today !!!

For the last time, I don't work at Jiffy Lube. Even if I did, YOU'RE the last person to criticize anyone making a living. You're a pseudo pop rock artist hack that had their shot and blew it. Face it. Maybe Jiffy Lube could sponsor your next coffee house tour. You spouting on like you know anything about politics is better than a Seinfeld rerun.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by DrMaddVibe
You spouting on like you know anything about politics is better than a Seinfeld rerun.

:lol:

This coming from someone who voted for Bush Cheney... twice

:rolleyes:

Say hi to Mrs ASSPipe for me.

If Val and Kirstie can do it, she can too! :D

[knuckleboner]

Originally posted by FORD

Cue the Pentagon incident... ... It certainly wasn't hit by any fucking Boeing 757 in any case.



could you possibly say, "i certainly don't think it was hit by any fucking Boeing 757?"

because really, it makes your argument insanely weak, it really does, when you go crazy conspiracy.

i may disagree with you on whether or not the government was involved. but the fact is, that a passenger plane hit the pentagon.


on the one hand, you have no reason to implicitly believe me. no reason; i'm just some dude on the internet.

however, if you choose to believe i'm not lying, then you can believe that i've talked to 2 of the first responders who went into the pentagon. 2 of the guys from the urban search and rescue team that goes around the world. they know what bombs and missiles and crashes look like. they know that the massive amounts of jet fuel they had to deal with on site could NOT have come from a missile. they know that the amount of wreckage found there was NOT possible from a bomb. they know the body parts they recovered there were NOT all from the pentagon.

however YOU only know this from some guy telling it to you on the internet. so, i totally understand if you don't believe me.

what i don't understand is why some other dude on some other internet site is inherently gospel when HE says it WASN'T a plane.

[LoungeMachine]

Be that as it may, it BEGS the question, kb....

WHY HAS THE FBI NEVER RELEASED THE ACTUAL SECURITY VIDEOS FROM THE GAS STATION, HOTEL, OR PENTAGON?? [save for the missing frame one that shows something hitting it]

Certainly couldnt be a national security issue at this point.

When you dealing with an administration bent on secrecy, moreso than any other since Nixon, when you're dealing with an administration KNOWN to be out and out LIARS, one can't help but question the "official stories"

[knuckleboner]

look, i totally understand questioning this administration and/or the official story. they have clearly been extraordinarily secretive or closed about a number of things, especially things like the lawyer firings, that they could've just as easily come clean about.

but that doesn't mean that i'm jumping to the most illogicial conclusion because they didn't release the video. i assume, first of all, that there's some other reason. that it's an ongoing investigation and they want to keep it secret. or that the video shows something about the security of the pentagon that they didn't want to release. or that it shows dick armey going vito spatafore on some dude in a parking lot. or something. whether worthwhile to keep secret or worthless, i make no judgment; especially with the bush administration. it could easily be worthless. but it doesn't lead me to ignore the logistical near impossibility of faking a plane crash.


forget the crash site. american airlines had a finite number of planes on 9/10 and a finite number of planes on 9/12. am i to assume that their inventory stayed the same (because it wasn't a plane that hit the pentagon) and nobody ever looked at that? or that they claimed to have only 102 planes now, despite the fact that they clearly still had 103? or that they somehow secretively disposed of a plane to get the number down to 102?

and there are lists printed of the "victims" of american airlines flight 77. are all the names made up, and nobody checked? are the names real and the people moved to/killed in a secure location?


etc. etc. etc. again, i make no claims that the bush adminstration has been forthcoming with all of the details, evidence they had, etc. and while i disagree with the notion that they were either behind or complicit in the attacks, i'll at least entertain arguments about that. but it completely defies logic to argue that a plane did not hit the pentagon.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by knuckleboner


that it's an ongoing investigation and they want to keep it secret.

Funny you should mention that....

OBL isn't even on the FBI Top 10 for 9/11

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/topten/fugitives/laden.htm

They say they have no evidence he was involved.


This administration has been awfully lax about finding culprits to terrorism.

Anthrax anybody?

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by knuckleboner
. but it completely defies logic to argue that a plane did not hit the pentagon.

I notice you didnt say a Boeing 747

:D

Something hit the pentagon. That much we're certain of.

[LoungeMachine]

But we seem to have strayed off topic again......

Why am I the only one here suspicious about the fact the pResiden't fucking brother held government contracts EXACTLY where we were hit?

Jesus :rolleyes:

[scamper]

Originally posted by FORD
complete with media whores babbling on screen about "possible death tolls as high as 50,000"


Kind of like they did after Katrina, but you bought into that.

[Satan]

Originally posted by scamper
Kind of like they did after Katrina, but you bought into that.

The official death toll from Katrina was never released, nor will it be. Because in all likelihood, it would exceed that of 9-11-01.

Which means that, even if you buy the "official" story of 9-11-01, Bush still killed more Americans than Osama.

Not even counting Iraq.

And as the CEO of Hell, where some of those people ended up, I can promise you that what I just said is closer to the reality than what they have told you.

[knuckleboner]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Funny you should mention that....

OBL isn't even on the FBI Top 10 for 9/11

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/topten/fugitives/laden.htm

They say they have no evidence he was involved.


This administration has been awfully lax about finding culprits to terrorism.

Anthrax anybody?


yeah, i know about osama and the FBI's top 10. so? either he was involved or he wasn't. but a passenger plane hit the pentagon, regardless.


but as for your original article; again, i fail to see the point. saying that there's a connection to george w. bush does NOT mean that there's clear evidence that it was an inside job. so bush's brother probably got a high-profile job, at least in part, because his brother was president. nepotism happens all the time.

now, some people will use that to make the completely unsubstantiated leap that it means that the bush administration had an easy ability to plant explosive charges in the building.

now, this ignores the fact that most engineers/physicists, etc., worldwide, have agreed that the physics are there for a building collapse, not a demolition.


now, if you want to argue that the security firm should've ushered everybody out of both buildings after the first hit, then i might agree that there was a failure there. (and it's NOT hard to believe that a bush (george/neal, etc.) could fail...) but otherwise, i fail to see how there's a big deal on who was in charge of the building security.

[DrMaddVibe]

He held the job from 1993 until June 2000.

Oh, I forgot we're supposed to believe that this was an inside job and that people can't make money or change jobs.

[DEMON CUNT]

Originally posted by knuckleboner
but a passenger plane hit the pentagon, regardless.


Considering your earlier comments, shouldn't this read:

"I believe a passenger plane hit the pentagon."

"I believe that most engineers/physicists, etc., worldwide, have agreed..."

?

Or are all theories but yours considered "conspiracies"?

Are you still stroking your conspiracy stick to Popular Mechanics?

[DEMON CUNT]

Originally posted by DrMaddVibe
He held the job from 1993 until June 2000.


Correct. That same company is contracted to provide security for United Airlines, Dulles International Airport, and the World Trade Center. All of which were directly involved with the 911 attacks.

Bonus question: What is the name of the investment firm that funds Marvin's former employers?

[knuckleboner]

Originally posted by DEMON CUNT
Considering your earlier comments, shouldn't this read:

"I believe a passenger plane hit the pentagon."

"I believe that most engineers/physicists, etc., worldwide, have agreed..."

?

Or are all theories but yours considered "conspiracies"?

Are you still stroking your conspiracy stick to Popular Mechanics?

heh heh. ok, fair point.

to be 100% accurate, you're right, i should've said i strongly believe a passenger plane hit the pentagon. i was not on the plane; i was not in the pentagon, i was not personally watching the event. so yes, while i have a lot of evidence to indicate with near certainty, it is definitely not 100%, therefore i believe.



and no, all theories (including mine) are just that; theories. it is the amount and quality of evidence in support or opposition to those theories that matters. and from everything i've seen, the conspiracy theories are fairly easily disproved.

however, i don't assign an equal faith in every component of the "official" story. i'm as certain as i can be without having witnessed it directly, myself, that a passenger plane hit the pentagon. damn near 100%.

i believe the official story on flight 93; passenger revolt caused the hijackers to get spooked and intentionally crash the plane before hitting its intended target. how sure am i? defintely not as sure as the pentagon plane.

[DEMON CUNT]

Originally posted by knuckleboner
so yes, while i have a lot of evidence to indicate with near certainty, it is definitely not 100%, therefore i believe.

i believe the official story on flight 93; passenger revolt caused the hijackers to get spooked and intentionally crash the plane before hitting its intended target.


You have been spoon fed "a lot of evidence" by the same liars that said Saddam was involved in the 911 attacks and possessed massive stock piles of WMD.

The notion of a false flag operation is simply too terrifying for many who choose to suckle from the administration's "official story" instead.

Got flight 93 crash site?

[knuckleboner]

that's just the thing; i've NEVER believed any of the saddam-9/11 links. not even close. i was against the iraq war from the beginning.

and my positions have absolutely nothing to do with not wanting to believe that our government could've been involved. look, whether or not our government was involved is irrelevant to many of the 9/11 issues.

IF a missile hit the pentagon, then yes, near certainty that the government was involved. however, if a plane hit the pentagon, it doesn't mean the government wasn't involved. they could've still remote controlled the plane, or brainwashed the hijackers, or have been giving orders to osama and told him to find martyrs and fool them into thinking they were attacking the WTC for islam.

so my opinion on it being a plane that hit the pentagon has nothing to do with trust in government. it's about the other things; eyewitneses, expert analysis of what plane damage would look like, and the sheer leap of logic to believe the government would take a horribly complicated route of faking a plane hijack and crash and firing a missile, when they could've just hijacked a plane.

to me, that insane leap of logic is not countered by the fact that some gas station video footage is missing.

[Guitar Shark]

So many conspiracies, so little time...

[Nickdfresh]

The Bush admin actually being competent enough to pull off the "inside job false flag operation" is just a hoot!