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LoungeMachine
12-06-2007, 06:16 PM
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=16969460

Transcript: Mitt Romney's Faith Speech
Listen: Romney's Speech on Faith


NPR.org, December 6, 2007 · The following is a transcript (as prepared for delivery) of former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney's speech "Faith in America," delivered Thursday at the George Bush Presidential Library in College Station, Texas. Romney discussed his views on religious liberty, religious tolerance and how faith would inform his presidency. The speech begins with Romney addressing former President George H.W. Bush, who introduced the former governor.

Romney: Thank you, Mr. President, for your kind introduction.

"It is an honor to be here today. This is an inspiring place because of you and the first lady, and because of the film exhibited across the way in the Presidential library. For those who have not seen it, it shows the President as a young pilot, shot down during the Second World War, being rescued from his life-raft by the crew of an American submarine. It is a moving reminder that when America has faced challenge and peril, Americans rise to the occasion, willing to risk their very lives to defend freedom and preserve our nation. We are in your debt. Thank you, Mr. President.

"Mr. President, your generation rose to the occasion, first to defeat Fascism and then to vanquish the Soviet Union. You left us, your children, a free and strong America. It is why we call yours the greatest generation. It is now my generation's turn. How we respond to today's challenges will define our generation. And it will determine what kind of America we will leave our children, and theirs.

"America faces a new generation of challenges. Radical violent Islam seeks to destroy us. An emerging China endeavors to surpass our economic leadership. And we are troubled at home by government overspending, overuse of foreign oil, and the breakdown of the family.

"Over the last year, we have embarked on a national debate on how best to preserve American leadership. Today, I wish to address a topic which I believe is fundamental to America's greatness: our religious liberty. I will also offer perspectives on how my own faith would inform my presidency, if I were elected.

"There are some who may feel that religion is not a matter to be seriously considered in the context of the weighty threats that face us. If so, they are at odds with the nation's founders, for they, when our nation faced its greatest peril, sought the blessings of the Creator. And further, they discovered the essential connection between the survival of a free land and the protection of religious freedom. In John Adams' words: 'We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion... Our constitution was made for a moral and religious people.'

"Freedom requires religion just as religion requires freedom. Freedom opens the windows of the soul so that man can discover his most profound beliefs and commune with God. Freedom and religion endure together, or perish alone.

"Given our grand tradition of religious tolerance and liberty, some wonder whether there are any questions regarding an aspiring candidate's religion that are appropriate. I believe there are. And I will answer them today.

"Almost 50 years ago another candidate from Massachusetts explained that he was an American running for president, not a Catholic running for president. Like him, I am an American running for president. I do not define my candidacy by my religion. A person should not be elected because of his faith nor should he be rejected because of his faith.

"Let me assure you that no authorities of my church, or of any other church for that matter, will ever exert influence on presidential decisions. Their authority is theirs, within the province of church affairs, and it ends where the affairs of the nation begin.

"As governor, I tried to do the right as best I knew it, serving the law and answering to the Constitution. I did not confuse the particular teachings of my church with the obligations of the office and of the Constitution - and of course, I would not do so as president. I will put no doctrine of any church above the plain duties of the office and the sovereign authority of the law.

"As a young man, Lincoln described what he called America's 'political religion' - the commitment to defend the rule of law and the Constitution. When I place my hand on the Bible and take the oath of office, that oath becomes my highest promise to God. If I am fortunate to become your president, I will serve no one religion, no one group, no one cause, and no one interest. A president must serve only the common cause of the people of the United States.

"There are some for whom these commitments are not enough. They would prefer it if I would simply distance myself from my religion, say that it is more a tradition than my personal conviction, or disavow one or another of its precepts. That I will not do. I believe in my Mormon faith and I endeavor to live by it. My faith is the faith of my fathers - I will be true to them and to my beliefs.

"Some believe that such a confession of my faith will sink my candidacy. If they are right, so be it. But I think they underestimate the American people. Americans do not respect believers of convenience.

Americans tire of those who would jettison their beliefs, even to gain the world.

"There is one fundamental question about which I often am asked. What do I believe about Jesus Christ? I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and the Savior of mankind. My church's beliefs about Christ may not all be the same as those of other faiths. Each religion has its own unique doctrines and history. These are not bases for criticism but rather a test of our tolerance. Religious tolerance would be a shallow principle indeed if it were reserved only for faiths with which we agree.

"There are some who would have a presidential candidate describe and explain his church's distinctive doctrines. To do so would enable the very religious test the founders prohibited in the Constitution. No candidate should become the spokesman for his faith. For if he becomes president he will need the prayers of the people of all faiths.

"I believe that every faith I have encountered draws its adherents closer to God. And in every faith I have come to know, there are features I wish were in my own: I love the profound ceremony of the Catholic Mass, the approachability of God in the prayers of the Evangelicals, the tenderness of spirit among the Pentecostals, the confident independence of the Lutherans, the ancient traditions of the Jews, unchanged through the ages, and the commitment to frequent prayer of the Muslims. As I travel across the country and see our towns and cities, I am always moved by the many houses of worship with their steeples, all pointing to heaven, reminding us of the source of life's blessings.

"It is important to recognize that while differences in theology exist between the churches in America, we share a common creed of moral convictions. And where the affairs of our nation are concerned, it's usually a sound rule to focus on the latter - on the great moral principles that urge us all on a common course. Whether it was the cause of abolition, or civil rights, or the right to life itself, no movement of conscience can succeed in America that cannot speak to the convictions of religious people.

"We separate church and state affairs in this country, and for good reason. No religion should dictate to the state nor should the state interfere with the free practice of religion. But in recent years, the notion of the separation of church and state has been taken by some well beyond its original meaning. They seek to remove from the public domain any acknowledgment of God. Religion is seen as merely a private affair with no place in public life. It is as if they are intent on establishing a new religion in America - the religion of secularism. They are wrong.

"The founders proscribed the establishment of a state religion, but they did not countenance the elimination of religion from the public square. We are a nation 'Under God' and in God, we do indeed trust.

"We should acknowledge the Creator as did the Founders - in ceremony and word. He should remain on our currency, in our pledge, in the teaching of our history, and during the holiday season, nativity scenes and menorahs should be welcome in our public places. Our greatness would not long endure without judges who respect the foundation of faith upon which our constitution rests. I will take care to separate the affairs of government from any religion, but I will not separate us from 'the God who gave us liberty.'

"Nor would I separate us from our religious heritage. Perhaps the most important question to ask a person of faith who seeks a political office, is this: does he share these American values: the equality of human kind, the obligation to serve one another, and a steadfast commitment to liberty?

"They are not unique to any one denomination. They belong to the great moral inheritance we hold in common. They are the firm ground on which Americans of different faiths meet and stand as a nation, united.

"We believe that every single human being is a child of God - we are all part of the human family. The conviction of the inherent and inalienable worth of every life is still the most revolutionary political proposition ever advanced. John Adams put it that we are 'thrown into the world all equal and alike.'

"The consequence of our common humanity is our responsibility to one another, to our fellow Americans foremost, but also to every child of God. It is an obligation which is fulfilled by Americans every day, here and across the globe, without regard to creed or race or nationality.

"Americans acknowledge that liberty is a gift of God, not an indulgence of government. No people in the history of the world have sacrificed as much for liberty. The lives of hundreds of thousands of America's sons and daughters were laid down during the last century to preserve freedom, for us and for freedom loving people throughout the world. America took nothing from that Century's terrible wars - no land from Germany or Japan or Korea; no treasure; no oath of fealty. America's resolve in the defense of liberty has been tested time and again. It has not been found wanting, nor must it ever be. America must never falter in holding high the banner of freedom.

"These American values, this great moral heritage, is shared and lived in my religion as it is in yours. I was taught in my home to honor God and love my neighbor. I saw my father march with Martin Luther King. I saw my parents provide compassionate care to others, in personal ways to people nearby, and in just as consequential ways in leading national volunteer movements. I am moved by the Lord's words: 'For I was an hungered, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: naked, and ye clothed me...'

"My faith is grounded on these truths. You can witness them in Ann and my marriage and in our family. We are a long way from perfect and we have surely stumbled along the way, but our aspirations, our values, are the self-same as those from the other faiths that stand upon this common foundation. And these convictions will indeed inform my presidency.

"Today's generations of Americans have always known religious liberty. Perhaps we forget the long and arduous path our nation's forbearers took to achieve it. They came here from England to seek freedom of religion. But upon finding it for themselves, they at first denied it to others. Because of their diverse beliefs, Ann Hutchinson was exiled from Massachusetts Bay, a banished Roger Williams founded Rhode Island, and two centuries later, Brigham Young set out for the West. Americans were unable to accommodate their commitment to their own faith with an appreciation for the convictions of others to different faiths. In this, they were very much like those of the European nations they had left.

"It was in Philadelphia that our founding fathers defined a revolutionary vision of liberty, grounded on self evident truths about the equality of all, and the inalienable rights with which each is endowed by his Creator.

"We cherish these sacred rights, and secure them in our Constitutional order. Foremost do we protect religious liberty, not as a matter of policy but as a matter of right. There will be no established church, and we are guaranteed the free exercise of our religion.

"I'm not sure that we fully appreciate the profound implications of our tradition of religious liberty. I have visited many of the magnificent cathedrals in Europe. They are so inspired . so grand . so empty. Raised up over generations, long ago, so many of the cathedrals now stand as the postcard backdrop to societies just too busy or too 'enlightened' to venture inside and kneel in prayer. The establishment of state religions in Europe did no favor to Europe's churches. And though you will find many people of strong faith there, the churches themselves seem to be withering away.

"Infinitely worse is the other extreme, the creed of conversion by conquest: violent Jihad, murder as martyrdom... killing Christians, Jews, and Muslims with equal indifference. These radical Islamists do their preaching not by reason or example, but in the coercion of minds and the shedding of blood. We face no greater danger today than theocratic tyranny, and the boundless suffering these states and groups could inflict if given the chance.

The diversity of our cultural expression, and the vibrancy of our religious dialogue, has kept America in the forefront of civilized nations even as others regard religious freedom as something to be destroyed.

In such a world, we can be deeply thankful that we live in a land where reason and religion are friends and allies in the cause of liberty, joined against the evils and dangers of the day. And you can be certain of this: Any believer in religious freedom, any person who has knelt in prayer to the Almighty, has a friend and ally in me. And so it is for hundreds of millions of our countrymen: We do not insist on a single strain of religion — rather, we welcome our nation's symphony of faith.

Recall the early days of the First Continental Congress in Philadelphia, during the fall of 1774. With Boston occupied by British troops, there were rumors of imminent hostilities and fears of an impending war. In this time of peril, someone suggested that they pray. But there were objections. They were too divided in religious sentiments, what with Episcopalians and Quakers, Anabaptists and Congregationalists, Presbyterians and Catholics.

Then Sam Adams rose, and said he would hear a prayer from anyone of piety and good character, as long as they were a patriot. And so together they prayed, and together they fought, and together, by the grace of God, they founded this great nation.

In that spirit, let us give thanks to the divine author of liberty. And together, let us pray that this land may always be blessed with freedom's holy light.

God bless this great land, the United States of America.

LoungeMachine
12-06-2007, 06:20 PM
I'm not into a candidate's faith by any measure.

In fact, I'd welcome an agnostic.

And Mitt isn't in my top 5 to consider voting for....

But I will say this.

It was awfully refreshing to see someone so bright and articulate after 7 years of the Chimp in Chief.

The man does possess the "presidential voice".

FORD
12-06-2007, 09:05 PM
Poppy introduced him. Jeb is backing him financially. BAIN capital is teaming up with The Carlyle Group on several recent "investments"........

Mittens is officially the BCE candidate for 2008. And that disturbs me far more than his choice of underwear or dislike of beer and caffeine.

Jim Shetterlini
12-06-2007, 09:11 PM
Originally posted by FORD
Poppy introduced him. Jeb is backing him financially. BAIN capital is teaming up with The Carlyle Group on several recent "investments"........

Mittens is officially the BCE candidate for 2008. And that disturbs me far more than his choice of underwear or dislike of beer and caffeine.

It was a good speech though rather you like him or not. As Lounge says he is very leader like.

EAT MY ASSHOLE
12-06-2007, 09:13 PM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine

It was awfully refreshing to see someone so bright and articulate after 7 years of the Chimp in Chief.

The man does possess the "presidential voice".

Oh, yes, soooo bright and articulate.

"Oh, I'm not a "hunter" hunter. I'm more of a small varmints hunter, if you will."

"No, my sons may not be fighting in Iraq, but they ARE working on my campaign to get me elected President. That's another way you can help this country."

"So we put the dog up on the roof of the car and drove to the next stop. Yes, the dog crapped himself up there. but he loved it. Trust me. I know my dog."

And W. was actually PLENTY articulate in many of his speeches. The reason for that may be the talent of cheif speechwriter Michael Gerson, but phrases like "the soft bigotry of low expectations" really are presidential speechwriting at their best.

FORD
12-06-2007, 09:17 PM
Originally posted by Jim Shetterlini
It was a good speech though rather you like him or not. As Lounge says he is very leader like.

So was Hitler. But he was a BCE candidate too.

EAT MY ASSHOLE
12-06-2007, 09:22 PM
Originally posted by FORD
So was Hitler.

Beat me to it...

and i would credit this example with more ability and smarts than this mormon.

I mean "moron"... :D

LoungeMachine
12-06-2007, 09:25 PM
Originally posted by EAT MY ASSHOLE



And W. was actually PLENTY articulate in many of his speeches.


:lol:

:lol:

:lol:

:rolleyes:

EAT MY ASSHOLE
12-06-2007, 09:30 PM
Nice to include the follow-up sentence from my post. As usual, you take what's convenient for you, and remain completely incurious about the rest.

Considering how much you're really just like them, it's a wonder that you;re not a staunch supporter for a Bush/Cheney third term. :D

LoungeMachine
12-06-2007, 09:36 PM
LMMFAO

Considering the entire REPUBLICAN field of "candidates", and considering the last 7 years of Bush/Cheney Lies, Propoganda, and Threats.....

I think his speech was well done.

I don't agree with 90% of the content, but stacked up to Bush, Julie Annie, and Huckleberry, he's at least articulate.

The bar has been pretty well lowered to sea level with these guys.

Give me Biden, Dodd, Kucinich any day, and twice on Sunday.


Nice try with the "you probably want Bush V3.0" :rolleyes:

Baby's a Liar tried that one too.

:gulp:

ELVIS
12-07-2007, 07:14 AM
It was a good calculated speech...

But who do you guys think he was aming this at ??

Deklon
12-07-2007, 09:16 AM
I'm a Romney guy. I happen to know him a little personally. However, I liked the man before I got to meet him and chat. This speech has likely been in the can for months. Unfortunately, politics is all about strategy. This was the ideal time to get the spotlight. Iowa and NH voters are likely starting to pay attention now. I thought he knocked the speech out of the park. Yes, I feel funny raving about him right after I say he's my choice, but it is how I feel. Remember, none of the candidates are running for a general election right now, they're running for their party's nomination only. Romney is saying all of the right things to conservatives right now. Gulliani still falls short of a true conservative, and I think Huckabee will wilt a bit as voter's study him harder. I've felt for a year it would come down to Mitt and Hillary. Sure starting to look that way now.

EAT MY ASSHOLE
12-07-2007, 09:38 AM
Bullshit. Romney ain't going anywhere. The Republicans would sooner get Jeb in there than this guy.

LoungeMachine
12-07-2007, 10:46 AM
Originally posted by EAT MY ASSHOLE
Oh, yes, soooo bright and articulate.

"Oh, I'm not a "hunter" hunter. I'm more of a small varmints hunter, if you will."


So you think pandering is a sign of lack of intelligence?

Hell Shrillary is a pandering queen, and yet still highly intelligent.

I'm not voting for the guy...

I'm not shilling for the guy....

All I am saying, is after 7 years of Chimp, and the likes of Julie Annie and Huckleberry, at least there's one other Republican other than Hagel that can speak well.

:gulp:

LoungeMachine
12-07-2007, 10:48 AM
Originally posted by EAT MY ASSHOLE
Bullshit. Romney ain't going anywhere. The Republicans would sooner get Jeb in there than this guy.

Neither is Rudy and his baggage.

Which leaves a McCain / Huckabee ticket.

Landslide!!!

:gulp:

EAT MY ASSHOLE
12-07-2007, 11:58 AM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Neither is Rudy and his baggage.

Which leaves a McCain / Huckabee ticket.

Landslide!!!

:gulp:

Rudy just might do it. If it were between him and Hillary, I honestly would be very torn about who to vote for, and it just might be Rudy. Do I like his strong arm tactics? No. Did he achieve results as the mayor of my town? Yeah. Unquestionably...

But I would not vote for that buffoon Mitt, ever.

LoungeMachine
12-07-2007, 12:02 PM
Originally posted by EAT MY ASSHOLE


. Did he achieve results as the mayor of my town? Yeah. Unquestionably...

.

Good thing he had Bill in the WH, huh?

:gulp: :gulp: :gulp:

LoungeMachine
12-07-2007, 12:03 PM
Originally posted by EAT MY ASSHOLE
Rudy just might do it.

:lol:

Rudee wont make it to Super Tuesday, silly.

Don't be ridiculous.

:gulp:

:gulp:

:gulp:

LoungeMachine
12-07-2007, 12:19 PM
Originally posted by EAT MY ASSHOLE
Rudy just might do it. .

THE WSJ SAYS:

How Giuliani's Slide in Polls
Could Undermine His Plan
December 6, 2007; Page A8
These are perilous times for Rudy Giuliani.

The Mike Huckabee boom, combined with a drumbeat of revelations in the media about his personal and business conduct, are threatening to wipe out one of the Republican White House hopeful's most important assets: His lead in the national polls.

The former New York mayor was the choice of 25% of Republican-leaning respondents in a new USA Today/Gallup poll. That gives him a mere nine-point lead over former Arkansas Gov. Huckabee, whose support surged to 16% from 6% a month ago. It was Mr. Giuliani's worst showing in the poll all year.

Another survey -- also taken Nov. 30 through Dec. 2 -- for the Los Angeles Times and Bloomberg pegged Mr. Giuliani's support at 23% among likely Republican voters, down from 32% in October. Mr. Huckabee, meanwhile, had shot to 17% from 7%.

If the trend continues and Mr. Giuliani loses his national lead, he would find it harder to raise funds. It would also greatly complicate -- perhaps even doom -- his unorthodox primary strategy.

Mr. Giuliani is betting he can survive losses in the early-voting states of Iowa, New Hampshire and Michigan, where polls show him trailing Mitt Romney and other candidates, and come back with a convincing win in Florida on Jan. 29. Then if all goes as planned, he would put the nomination in the bag by winning a series of big, delegate-rich states, including his native New York and neighboring New Jersey, in the "Tsunami Tuesday" round of primaries on Feb. 5.

But that plan is predicated on Mr. Giuliani being able to argue he's the Republican most likely to win a general election -- an argument that's harder to make if even his own party's voters are leaving him.

--Mary Jacoby

Nitro Express
12-07-2007, 12:51 PM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine
I'm not into a candidate's faith by any measure.

In fact, I'd welcome an agnostic.

And Mitt isn't in my top 5 to consider voting for....

But I will say this.

It was awfully refreshing to see someone so bright and articulate after 7 years of the Chimp in Chief.

The man does possess the "presidential voice".

Mitt is a smart guy and tottaly stepped in and saved the Salt Lake Olympic games from the corruption that plagued them. As far as Mormonism goes, I had the misfortune of being born into that religion which systematically meddles in it's members family and personal lives beyond what is acceptable for a mainstream religion. People don't trust Mormonism and think it's wierd and want nothing to do with it. Getting out of it means major feather ruffling in your own family both immediate and extended.

My question about Mitt is does he really believe in Mormonism? Some smart people stay in the cult because they get off on the powerbase it provides them. Mitt in the Mormon community is almost a God himself. With DNA testing shooting the Book of Mormon down in flames (the church even recently revised it to spin what modern science is disproving) and The Book of Abraham being scientifically proven as a fraud, I find it hard to believe one of the most talented investment bankers in the country can't see through it.

Mitt is either in denile and a lot of Mormons are or he get's off being a sugar daddy in the church. Many of the volunteer clergy in the Mormon church are wealthy people. I once had a Stake President who lived in a ten million dollar home and was a big Reagan Republican oil guy and yes he knew Bush too. This was in Denver years ago.

What I saw is this guy loved being a leader in the church because when mixed with his wealth, the people practacly worshiped him. He was more than some rich guy, he was a spiruatual guru to sevral thousand people. He got off on it big time.

My dad and grandfather were both jack Mormons. They broke every commandment in the book in their private lives and the family retreat always had a good stock of hard liquor and beer. Both held high callings in the church and put on the cherade. When I started drinking at age 16, my dad knew but never called me out on it because he did the same. Why did my dad stay in the cult? Money. He made a fortune getting church construction contracts. He built a zillion meeting houses for the church and it made him rich.

The Mormon church is a real estate holding company and agriculture corporation in reality. They are the largest private owner of land in the US and they own some of the largest farms and ranches in the US. They own the whole almond industry and lucrativ water rights in the southwest. It's a big money pie and some members make money off of it. My dad did.

Nitro Express
12-07-2007, 01:02 PM
The Mormon Church looking at it in the rear view mirror and being free of the social pressure and family pressure that comes with it, I can honestly make this assessment about it. The church is a lie factory. The Mormon church has it's standards so high, nobody can live up to them. It's impossible. Then to go anywhere within the church position wise you have to have a series of interviews that dig into your personal life including you sex life. You have a bishop asking young teenage boys if they masturbate and if they confess they do, they are reprimanded and shamed.

Now any idiot knows all post puberty males wank it and if they don't, they have seriouse psycological problems. So what is the church getting at here? They know the kids are whacking it but they want them to cover it up and lie. Lie for the Lord is what Mormonism is about and by the time you become an adult, you are a pro.

A former church leader once told me the church only punishes the ones who are honest. What the church wants you to do is follow the leader and tow the line. Lie for the organization. It's much like the mob in this case. Loyalty to the organization is everything. So I would be very reluctant to vote for a Mormon knowing what I know now.

Guitar Shark
12-07-2007, 01:12 PM
Originally posted by FORD
Poppy introduced him. Jeb is backing him financially. BAIN capital is teaming up with The Carlyle Group on several recent "investments"........

Mittens is officially the BCE candidate for 2008. And that disturbs me far more than his choice of underwear or dislike of beer and caffeine.

Can you even distinguish reality from your world anymore?

Nitro Express
12-07-2007, 01:15 PM
I would love to see Mitt win. It would really put the Mormon church under the spotlight. The church is shrinking and the church leaders are really starting to panic because it's core base in the western United States that pays all the tithing is starting to shrink. The new generation of kids are internet savy and the church can no longer contain the evidence that condems it.

The internet open the closet with all the skeletons. In the past, if something surface that put the church in bad light, the church would use it's money to buy the document or artifact and hide it in the church vault. The Catholics have done this for hundreds of years so it's an old game.

Now the internet has given point and click access to some of the evidence the church has hidden and the younger church members are savy to it and don't want to put so much effort into living a lie.

Something is going to push the church off the edge and maybe Mitt in the White House would be a good shove. LOL!

Nitro Express
12-07-2007, 01:22 PM
Originally posted by ELVIS
It was a good calculated speech...

But who do you guys think he was aming this at ??

The evangelical religiouse right. Mitt needs the born agains and baptists votes to go anywhere. He needs the Texas and Florida electorial votes to win.

I think the rapture and snake handling crowd would vote for Hillary before they ever would vote for a "I can become a God that fucks multiple godess wives" Mormon.

Nitro Express
12-07-2007, 01:27 PM
There is much bad blood between southern baptists and Mormons. This goes all the way back to the Missouri days, the Mountain Meadows Massacure, and the Parley P. Pratt murders. Southerners view Mormons as a bunch of fucked up Yankees. LOL!

In the old days, when a Mormon got called up to serve a southern states mission, they just shit their pants.

LoungeMachine
12-07-2007, 01:30 PM
Originally posted by ELVIS
It was a good calculated speech...

But who do you guys think he was aming this at ??

Religious Hypocrites who all believe that THEIR cult is the ONLY cult allowed to rule?

:gulp:

Nitro Express
12-07-2007, 03:20 PM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Religious Hypocrites who all believe that THEIR cult is the ONLY cult allowed to rule?

:gulp:

The difference between a religion and a cult is the church you belong to is a religion and the other guys church is a cult. :D Successful religions become part of the family structure and community structure and exploit them.

The only difference between politics, religion, and proffessional wrestling is the ring the showmanship and illusion takes place. If you believe the people are real, you still believe in Santa Claus.

scamper
12-07-2007, 03:36 PM
Originally posted by Nitro Express
The difference between a religion and a cult is the church you belong to is a religion and the other guys church is a cult. :D

Well said

LoungeMachine
12-07-2007, 03:45 PM
Much like the difference between a "terrorist regime" and an "administration"

scamper
12-07-2007, 03:52 PM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Much like the difference between a "terrorist regime" and an "administration"

Yep

FORD
12-07-2007, 03:52 PM
Originally posted by Guitar Shark
Can you even distinguish reality from your world anymore?

What did I say in that post that wasn't reality? :confused:

Poppy introduced him?

The speech begins with Romney addressing former President George H.W. Bush, who introduced the former governor.

Jeb is supporting him? (http://www.google.com/search?q=Jeb+Bush+Romney)

BAIN Capital and Carlyle Group? (http://www.google.com/search?q=BAIN+Carlyle)

Seems that Mittens is Poppy's new "adopted son". Can't blame him for wanting to replace his own oldest kid, I guess.....

Guitar Shark
12-07-2007, 03:56 PM
Originally posted by FORD
What did I say in that post that wasn't reality? :confused:


How about if we start with the fact that you refuse to use their real names, and instead come up with silly nicknames for them, many of which are understood by you and you alone?

LoungeMachine
12-07-2007, 03:58 PM
Originally posted by Guitar Shark
How about if we start with the fact that you refuse to use their real names, and instead come up with silly nicknames for them, many of which are understood by you and you alone?

I beg to differ with the "you and you alone" part. :rolleyes:

Guitar Shark
12-07-2007, 04:03 PM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine
I beg to differ with the "you and you alone" part. :rolleyes:

Congratulations, I think... :confused:

LoungeMachine
12-07-2007, 04:05 PM
I speak fluid Fordese.

Once you pass the bar, we may tutor you. ;)

:gulp:

FORD
12-07-2007, 04:07 PM
Poppy is a fairly well known nickname for old man Bush. And it's origins have to do with one of his favorite CIA cash crops.

"Mittens" is also fairly common for Romney.

BITEYOASS
12-07-2007, 04:19 PM
Fuck Romney! He wants to take sex and violence out of Television, movies and video games! Then he'll be after metal next, guaran-fuckin-tee it! He says there is too much pollution in our culture, but doesn't give two fucks about the pollution on the coastline, just ignore those fishkills over there, nothing to see. :mad: I'd like to dedicate this song to Mittens:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4SW5JQiiAw

EAT MY ASSHOLE
12-07-2007, 07:45 PM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine
I beg to differ with the "you and you alone" part. :rolleyes:

That's nothing to brag about, commie... :D

Nickdfresh
12-07-2007, 07:53 PM
Originally posted by EAT MY ASSHOLE
Bullshit. Romney ain't going anywhere. The Republicans would sooner get Jeb in there than this guy.

True dat...

Nickdfresh
12-07-2007, 07:54 PM
Originally posted by EAT MY ASSHOLE
Rudy just might do it. If it were between him and Hillary, I honestly would be very torn about who to vote for, and it just might be Rudy. Do I like his strong arm tactics? No. Did he achieve results as the mayor of my town? Yeah. Unquestionably...

...

You mean the ones he continually lies about?

EAT MY ASSHOLE
12-07-2007, 08:00 PM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
You mean the ones he continually lies about?

Those would be the ones. Look, I lived in this town the entire time. It really improved, end of conversation. In terms of cleanliness, safety (yes, I know, here comes the 9/11 pointers, which I DO agree with), job and economic growth, NYC was a better town to live in while Rudy was mayor.

Do I know what went on behind the scenes that brought those improvements? Only a little, and, yeah, it's ugly shit. Even criminal. But in terms of my day to day existence, I'd have to say he did well and the city did well by him.

Nickdfresh
12-07-2007, 08:24 PM
Originally posted by EAT MY ASSHOLE
Those would be the ones. Look, I lived in this town the entire time. It really improved, end of conversation. In terms of cleanliness, safety (yes, I know, here comes the 9/11 pointers, which I DO agree with), job and economic growth, NYC was a better town to live in while Rudy was mayor.

Do I know what went on behind the scenes that brought those improvements? Only a little, and, yeah, it's ugly shit. Even criminal. But in terms of my day to day existence, I'd have to say he did well and the city did well by him.

Weren't a lot of those things already improving? I mean, the economy was going well then and tech centers like NYC would only benefit no matter who's in...

And I think his statements on 9/11 and the resulting alienation on the rescue workers is just unforgivable...

hideyoursheep
12-07-2007, 08:48 PM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Mitt Romney's Faith Speech
"Some believe that such a confession of my faith will sink my candidacy. If they are right, so be it. But I think they underestimate the American people. Americans do not respect believers of convenience.
"Americans tire of those who would jettison their beliefs, even to gain the world."
I wonder if that little zinger was aimed at anyone in particular?

Americans don't care much for cultists, either.




There is one fundamental question about which I often am asked. What do I believe about Jesus Christ? I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and the Savior of mankind. My church's beliefs about Christ may not all be the same as those of other faiths. Each religion has its own unique doctrines and history. These are not bases for criticism but rather a test of our tolerance. Religious tolerance would be a shallow principle indeed if it were reserved only for faiths with which we agree."

TRANSLATION:

"I know I'm a Mormon- could you gimme a break?!

FORD
12-07-2007, 09:19 PM
Originally posted by hideyoursheep
I wonder if that little zinger was aimed at anyone in particular?



It should be aimed at himself.

Mittens might be consistent when it comes to his belief in Elohim, Kolob, and holy underwear, but his political beliefs are up for revision constantly.

When he carpetbagged his ass back to Massachusetts to run for governor, he was calling himself "pro-choice" and actually took out an ad in a Boston area gay newspaper claiming that his position on gay rights was "more liberal than Ted Kennedy".

Now he's flip-flopped again on both. He actually used the ridiculous "fear of human cloning" as his excuse of changing his mind on the abortion issue.

And I guessed the "Prophet" must have called from SLC to tell him he had to hate the queers again.

Seshmeister
12-07-2007, 09:43 PM
Originally posted by ELVIS
It was a good calculated speech...

But who do you guys think he was aming this at ??

The mentally ill?

Nitro Express
12-08-2007, 02:50 AM
I believe in freedom of religion but the unwritten rule is "Keep thy religion to thyself." Jesus doesn't need money and he doesn't need pissant people to sell salvation. I also highly doubt a just God rewards assholes who kill his/her creations.

You got to love it. The Muslims and other religions basically are saying God fucked up and made a shitty world so they are needed to fix things by killing off some of God's creations. The world would be better off if the religiouse people left it alone and let God's work run it's course naturally.

hideyoursheep
12-08-2007, 04:29 PM
Originally posted by FORD
When he carpetbagged his ass back to Massachusetts to run for governor, he was calling himself "pro-choice" and actually took out an ad in a Boston area gay newspaper claiming that his position on gay rights was "more liberal than Ted Kennedy".

Now he's flip-flopped again on both. He actually used the ridiculous "fear of human cloning" as his excuse of changing his mind on the abortion issue.

And I guessed the "Prophet" must have called from SLC to tell him he had to hate the queers again.

The GOP must really be desperate in propping this guy up with

these stances he's taken in the past on his resume.

The Dems will tear him a new one in a debate.
(provided they've been paying attention)

There's no chance he can be accepted with any credibility by
the religious conservative baptist voters.

"Magic underpants".... :rolleyes:

Nitro Express
12-10-2007, 05:23 AM
Mormonism=Communism

They believe in what's called the united order. The members give everything to the church and the church owns it all in the perfect Mormon world. They actually make you swear an oath in the temple that you will do such. Mitt has sworn secret oaths in the temple that everything he has or will have is the church's and the church comes before all else including family.

Yeah, that is someone I would like to vote for.