$145 Billion? YOU FUCKING REPUBLICANS

[LoungeMachine]

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Bush Proposes $145 Billion Plan to Spur Economy


By SHERYL GAY STOLBERG
Published: January 19, 2008
WASHINGTON — President Bush called Friday for roughly $145 billion in tax relief for individuals and businesses that he said would “provide a shot in the arm” for the economy, while Congressional Democrats, in a rare show of Washington bipartisanship, pledged to work with him to enact a plan quickly.


(January 19, 2008) Mr. Bush laid out his ideas for an economic rescue package only in broad strokes, saying the plan must be “built on broad-based tax relief” and “big enough to make a difference in an economy as large and dynamic as ours.” He did not use the word recession, but acknowledged that “there is a risk of a downturn.”

His comments, in the Roosevelt Room of the White House, reflected a heightened sense of urgency within the administration and on Capitol Hill about the need to stimulate spending in an economy shaken by higher gas prices and instability in the housing and credit markets.

Though the details must still be negotiated, both the White House and Congressional Democrats are leaning heavily toward a combination similar to the one the administration turned to in 2001 as a recession-fighting tool. It would include a one-time tax rebate for individuals and an immediate expansion in the deductions that businesses take for investment in equipment. If Congress acts quickly, checks could be in the hands of American taxpayers as early as spring.

Still, there will be sticking points. In laying the foundation for a plan rooted in tax policy, Mr. Bush held fast to a central theme of his presidency, that cutting taxes, rather than increasing spending, was the route to prosperity. Democrats, by contrast, supported an extension of unemployment benefits, coupled with tax breaks aimed at the middle class. Some reacted warily, even as they praised Mr. Bush.

“We want a balanced package: a tax rebate for the middle class and spending stimulus that jump-starts this economy quickly,” Senator Charles E. Schumer, Democrat of New York, told reporters.

In declining to offer specifics, Mr. Bush acceded to the wishes of the Senate Democratic leader, Harry Reid of Nevada, who had asked him during a conference call on Thursday not to lay out a formal proposal before Democrats had a chance to coalesce around theirs. Administration officials were assiduous on Friday about refusing to comment on details, including a report that the rebate would be set at $800 for individuals and $1,600 for couples.

“I don’t want to play, ‘Is it bigger than a breadbox?’ ” Treasury Secretary Henry M. Paulson Jr. told reporters, adding that Mr. Bush intentionally did not release details “because we’re looking to be collaborative in working with Congress here.”

In setting his parameters, Mr. Bush said the package should be about 1 percent of the gross domestic product, or roughly $145 billion. He said it must include tax incentives to induce businesses “to make major investments in their enterprises this year,” as well as provide “direct and rapid income tax relief for the American people.”

Mr. Bush said his purpose was “to keep a fundamentally strong economy healthy.”

“In a vibrant economy, markets rise and decline,” he said. “We cannot change that fundamental dynamic. Yet there are also times when swift and temporary actions can help ensure that inevitable market adjustments do not undermine the health of the broader economy. This is such a moment.”

Mr. Bush offered an important olive branch to Democrats. He did not insist that the package be linked to making his tax cuts permanent — an idea that Democrats had warned would face stiff opposition — but instead called on Congress to take up the issue of permanent tax cuts after passage of a rescue package.

As he spoke, the members of his economic team were behind him, among them Vice President Dick Cheney, who was a prominent backer of the tax cuts Mr. Bush got through Congress in 2001 and 2003.

Friday’s announcement set Congress on a timetable much faster than the one Mr. Bush envisioned when, in an interview with reporters for Reuters two weeks ago, he volunteered that he was contemplating a stimulus package to provide a short-term push for the economy.

Mr. Bush pledged to make a decision about whether a package was necessary sometime around his State of the Union address on Jan. 28.

But a combination of economic and political factors conspired to thrust the stimulus package to the top of the Washington agenda. The day after Mr. Bush’s interview with Reuters, the government released a disappointing unemployment report. That, coupled with the slide in the stock market, created a sense that Congress needed to act quickly.

continued if you can stomach it @ http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/19/washington/19fiscal.html?ref=business

[LoungeMachine]

You fucking dumbass, spend water like money RePUKES are a fucking joke....


WE'RE AT WAR ON 2 FRONTS THANKS TO YOU.

AND NOW YOU WANT TO CUT CHECKS ?????????

:rolleyes:

Fucking pig-fucking idiots.



Jesus H. Christ.

[vh rides again]

when can i expect the check?

[FORD]

I doubt you make enough money for a BCE tax "cut".

[Blackflag]

I wonder what Lounge's solution for the economy is.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Blackflag
I wonder what Lounge's solution for the economy is.

Repeal Bush's tax cuts....

Cut Big Oil's Corporate Welfare...

Stop starting wars..........

Quit outsourcing jobs........

Stop loopholes that allow war-profiteers such as Halliburton from moving to Dubai while cashing our checks.


That's a start.

What's your solution, fuckstump? :rolleyes:


fucking dolt.

:gulp:

[Blackflag]

Anybody got any crack?

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Blackflag
I wonder what Lounge's solution for the economy is.

Wonder what your's is....

:rolleyes:

[Blackflag]

Ha - that's one way to respond to being embarassed.

Tell us more about how taxes should be raised to help the economy.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Blackflag
Ha - that's one way to respond to being embarassed.

Tell us more about how taxes should be raised to help the economy.

:rolleyes:

God you're an idiot.

[Steve Savicki]

Originally posted by Blackflag
Tell us more about how taxes should be raised to help the economy.
Do you pay sales tax?

[DLR'sCock]

You know, when there are enough jobs in this country that actual pay real wages and real salaries for more than enough of the middle and lower classes of the country then people SPEND money.


This mega corps, the upper upper rich, the people who have actually been really running this country are running it into the ground because they are too fucking greedy, and it needs to stop.


I saw the revitalization of this class warfare against the middle class and working class in the US a long time ago, I probably first truly realized it about 13 years ago, and if the middle class and the working class loses, the whole country loses.

[thome]

I have never been out of work, I have never gone hungry .

Dumpster bums in this country live better than 1/5 of the whole world.

Too bad the gloom and doom Democraticalism won't work on thinking humans, just on the ignorant and dependant.

The rich get richer cause they make it so.

The poor and pitifull want with no effort.

I knew a guy who moved to Cali and street bummed 500$ a day... every day .

Nice work if you can get it?

The big picture is a representation of the painter and most of them ....-Sukk-.... at it ,they are hollow and lack depth, they are one dimensional and thinnly veiled as leaders of the oppressed.

95% of the oppressed are lazy.

What's your point?

[Blackflag]

Originally posted by Steve Savicki
Do you pay sales tax?

8%. That's why I don't buy very much. Or if there is something expensive I need, I wait til I'm in DE.

Were you making a point, or just really interested in me?

And Lounge...when one answers an economics question with "God you're an idiot," it means they don't know anything about econonmics.

But you can certainly prove me wrong.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Blackflag



And Lounge...when one answers an economics question with "God you're an idiot," it means they don't know anything about econonmics.

But you can certainly prove me wrong.

And when someone refuses to put forth any of their own ideas, while simply mocking other's, it means they know even less.

You do this alot. You claim to be this economic expert, yet never have anything to offer of your own.

Why do you support $250-$500 checks as a way to "stimulate" the economy. Because it worked so well for BushCO the first time?
:rolleyes:

Or do you just really need the money?


It's a two-way street here. If you expect your posts answered, but never answer a direct question yourself, then you're just a troll.

Regardless, I couldn't possibly care less.

I think this "plan" is a bad idea, and so do many economists.


Joke:

3 economists were were out at target practice.

First economist shoots and misses 4 feet to the left.

Second economist shoots and misses 4 feet to the right.

Third economist shouts I HIT IT!!!

:gulp:

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Blackflag


Tell us more about how taxes should be raised to help the economy.

Nice strawman there. :rolleyes:

Tell us how issuing checks putting us another $145 Billion into debt "helps" the economy, mensa.

Truth is, most will pay DEBT with those checks. Not buy at Wal-Mart.

But enlighten us.

What will YOU do with your $250?

Not a crack binge, I hope. :D

[Blackflag]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
And when someone refuses to put forth any of their own ideas, while simply mocking other's, it means they know even less.

But Lounge... isn't that precisely what you did in your original post?

Then when I do it to you, you cry? Funny. :D

[Blackflag]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
You claim to be this economic expert, yet never have anything to offer of your own.

Don't get me wrong...I'm no economics expert. Not at all. That's not what I do for a living.

But, holy shit, a kid in high school knows that raising taxes is the worst thing you could do if you want to help the economy. No offense, but what the fuck?

In terms of my own ideas - which have nothing to do with our conversation - there are only a finite number of things the government can do to quickly stimulate the economy... decrease interest rates, increase money supply, decrease taxes, lend more money to banks, spend money on 'government projects'... They've already done most of those, and interest rates are approachng zero. Time to lower taxes (same as giving a rebate).

What else is there? Decrease outsourcing. Refuse to do business with Dubai companies. Yeah, whatever. Maybe in 10 years that will do something, if it were even possible.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Blackflag
But, holy shit, a kid in high school knows that raising taxes is the worst thing you could do if you want to help the economy. No offense, but what the fuck?

:rolleyes:

How is opposing "rebate" checks *chuckle, chuckle* "raising" taxes. :rolleyes:

I'm also for lifting the cap on the SS tax past $90K

I'm also for ending the big oil kickbacks and subsidies.


I never knew you were such a Reopublican .


Yet I see you STILL can't offer any of your own suggestions...

Maybve by the time we hit page 2

:gulp:

[LoungeMachine]

LMAO

Good thing you went back and editted in your "own ideas" finally.

:gulp:

Was that too much to ask, really?

[LoungeMachine]

LMAO

Good thing you went back and edited in your "own ideas" finally.

:gulp:

Was that too much to ask, really?

[Blackflag]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine

Tell us how issuing checks putting us another $145 Billion into debt "helps" the economy, mensa.

Truth is, most will pay DEBT with those checks. Not buy at Wal-Mart.

But enlighten us.

What will YOU do with your $250?

Not a crack binge, I hope. :D

I believe the term is 'velocity of money,' you can probably find an explanation on the internet somewhere if you're too lazy to get your ass down to the library.

Yeah, they'll pay debt. Because Americans are so dilligent about keeping their debt low. :rolleyes:

More likely, they'll go buy a big screen tv or a shiny red pickup.

But even if they pay off debt, is that bad? Where does that money go once they pay it?

For me, I'd probably buy stock, which provides money for business activity. Or buy some crack. :D

But it's win-win when the government gives up some of the money it took out of the economy. Where do you think it will go otherwise? Iraq? Yeah, that will help the US economy. :rolleyes:

I answered your questions. Time for you to answer some without saying 'you're an idiot.'

[Blackflag]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
LMAO

Good thing you went back and editted in your "own ideas" finally.

:gulp:

Was that too much to ask, really?

I didn't. This fucking site is stuttering.

[LoungeMachine]

Okay, you want to "rebate" $150 Billion...

We're in deficit, so can you name the offsets that won't hurt the same people you think these "rebates" are going to help?

How about not spending more on defense [read: Boogeyman] than the rest of the world?

Fact of the matter is, we dont HAVE $150 Billion to "rebate", do we?

No.


So let's talk about where that money is REALLY coming from.

We're borrowing from our grandkids to "spur" the economy?

Cue the highschool kid now.


This is almost comical.

:gulp:

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Blackflag
I didn't. This fucking site is stuttering.

I'll give you that.

And we're working on it as we speak.

But beware, you aint gonna like what some of the moves are behind the scenes.

I suggest www.pornotube.com from now on...

:gulp:

[Blackflag]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
:rolleyes:

How is opposing "rebate" checks *chuckle, chuckle* "raising" taxes. :rolleyes:

I'm also for lifting the cap on the SS tax past $90K



I'm not a republican at all. I'm for a strong U.S. economy and a weak U.S. government. Low taxes make that happen.

Rebate checks are just lowering taxes in advance of next year's return. If you oppose the rebate, you favor keeping taxes high. You also said, "Repeal Bush's tax cuts...." That's raising taxes.

Further, increasing the SS fund would not help the economy in the short term. In fact, it's a tax increase. Did we learn yet if that's good for the economny?

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Blackflag


What else is there? Decrease outsourcing. Refuse to do business with Dubai companies. Yeah, whatever. Maybe in 10 years that will do something, if it were even possible.

I agree with you. The horse has left the barn on most of my pet peeves of this "administration"

Too little, too late.

But is floating more debt really the answer now?

I'm asking in all sincerity.

:gulp:

[Blackflag]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Okay, you want to "rebate" $150 Billion...

We're in deficit, so can you name the offsets that won't hurt the same people you think these "rebates" are going to help?

How about not spending more on defense [read: Boogeyman] than the rest of the world?

Fact of the matter is, we dont HAVE $150 Billion to "rebate", do we?

No.


So let's talk about where that money is REALLY coming from.

We're borrowing from our grandkids to "spur" the economy?

Cue the highschool kid now.


This is almost comical.

:gulp:

Now you're using your head. You're right. The government is borrowing money to spur the economy.

It's a catch-22, isn't it? Just keep your fingers crossed that the benefit to the economy far outweighs the amount borrowed in the long term.

But that's neither here nor there. The question is: what's the option? If not this move, then what do you to stimulate the economy short term? No good choices.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Blackflag


Further, increasing the SS fund would not help the economy in the short term. In fact, it's a tax increase. Did we learn yet if that's good for the economny?

I know that.

It was off-topic.

Just citing further examples of my commie-laden left-wing agenda.

:gulp:

[Blackflag]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
I'll give you that.

And we're working on it as we speak.

But beware, you aint gonna like what some of the moves are behind the scenes.

I suggest www.pornotube.com from now on...

:gulp:

JHale will not be pleased.

[LoungeMachine]

No good choices: Granted

JHale pissed: Granted


So we've been arguing different sides of the same coin????

I feel so cheated.

:gulp:


And I apologize for calling you dumb. You're not dumb.



Just a cunt ;)

[Blackflag]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
I agree with you. The horse has left the barn on most of my pet peeves of this "administration"

Too little, too late.

But is floating more debt really the answer now?

I'm asking in all sincerity.

:gulp:

It's not a good option, it sucks. But we're out of good options. Really, what else do you do?

Honestly, I wish they would rebate more money. Take the medicine once, then hope the economy rebounds to pay it all off.

I'll tell you what would be a real bitch...to take on this $145m debt, then have it not be enough to make a real difference.

That's why the markets went down on Fri., people were disappointed that this package may not be high enough.

[Blackflag]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine



And I apologize for calling you dumb. You're not dumb.



We're all dumb. The smart people are on a beach in the south pacific.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Blackflag
It's not a good option, it sucks. .

Hence my angry thread / rant



Originally posted by Blackflag
Really, what else do you do?



Hoping you knew....


Originally posted by Blackflag


I'll tell you what would be a real bitch...to take on this $145m debt, then have it not be enough to make a real difference.


Just in time for DECISON 2008, eh?


Originally posted by Blackflag
That's why the markets went down on Fri., people were disappointed that this package may not be high enough.

I'm no expert [duh], but wasn't the crash/depression actually caused by exactly the same kind of credit crunch the mortgage debacle is mimicking now?

Banks stop lending, all hell breaks loose.



This just seems to be such a 4th and 40yds, Hail Fucking Mary with no time left on the clock play.....


I have some cash and gold [literally] stashed, just in case.

I'm not going out and buying canned goods, but this sure seems to be deja vu all over again....


Good Luck with your Ron Paul "little or no governemtn" platform.

I'll be in my bunker. :D

:gulp:

[Hyman Roth]

Originally posted by DLR'sCock
You know, when there are enough jobs in this country that actual pay real wages and real salaries for more than enough of the middle and lower classes of the country then people SPEND money.


This mega corps, the upper upper rich, the people who have actually been really running this country are running it into the ground because they are too fucking greedy, and it needs to stop.


I saw the revitalization of this class warfare against the middle class and working class in the US a long time ago, I probably first truly realized it about 13 years ago, and if the middle class and the working class loses, the whole country loses.

I agree entirely. I first noticed it during the Rodney King riots back in '91. It simmered for a while during the first few years of the Clinton admin but it has gotten progresively worse since 1996.

Its interesting - the market tanks and all of a sudden the news is like "Oh looming rescession this, recession that." Living standards for most of the country have never reterned to pre-9-11 status. Jobs are scarce and good jobs are non-existent. Wages have fallen way behind the cost of living and how long is it going to keep getting harder and harder to make an honest living? Meanwhile the oil companies enjoy record breaking profits each quarter and (until last week) Wallstreet was untouchable. It pisses me off.

[LoungeMachine]

There's a technical equation that becomes a true "recession"

Something like 2 quarters of so and so negative growth, yada, yada...

But that's all theater as far as Joe Sixpack is concerned.

Recession = Job Loss / foreclosure / Food bank to middle america...

Call it what you want, even "food fear", or whatever BushCO came up with..

It aint good. And as far as I'm concerned, it's all at the feet of the Republican led Congress and White House 2000-2006

:gulp:

[Hyman Roth]

Right..."a significant decline in economic activity spread across the economy, lasting more than a few months."

Just like CPI is supposed to accurately reflect what consumers
purchase and the unemployment rate doesn't take into account
people who gave up looking for a job in their field after six months,
even if they swallowed their pride and took that job at McDonalds or
washing cars.

We are fucked! Best case scenario: that super volcano in Yosemete National pops its cork sooner rather than later.

[Blackflag]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
I'm no expert [duh], but wasn't the crash/depression actually caused by exactly the same kind of credit crunch the mortgage debacle is mimicking now?

Banks stop lending, all hell breaks loose.

True, lack of liquidity in the business credit markets. So the fed (and the EU central bank) released a lot of low interest cash to remedy the situation.

It is parallel to the mortgage thing, I guess... lack of credit available to consumers. So giving some cash back may help.

The big thing is the government sucking up all the cash for businesses and people and sending it to the Iraq debacle. So the more they let the cash stay here (lower tax), the better.



Originally posted by LoungeMachine

This just seems to be such a 4th and 40yds, Hail Fucking Mary with no time left on the clock play.....

But they should be doing something rather than just watching the shit hit the fan, I guess.



Originally posted by LoungeMachine

I have some cash and gold [literally] stashed, just in case.

I've been putting money into asian stocks, and as much as it turns my stomach to say, they're doing pretty good.

[jgdrag]

Hey guys, I'm an outsider(Canadian) looking in on your most recent economic position and all I can say from experience is that all those jobs that have left your country,they aren't coming back. You have however been fortunate that is did not happen back in the late 90s. China, unlike Mexico, has taken the opportunity to strengthen their global position through manufacturing and cheap labour whereas Mexico could not adapt or chose not to adapt to the economic opportunity offered to them. One Chinese yen .138 per American dollar. If you owned a manufacturing company, where would your most profitable opportunity come from? China!
It was interesting to learn that Wal-Mart is the 2nd or 3rd largest importer of Chinese goods in America? This cannot be very good for the American economy? But, American and yes Canadian people still shop there daily?
When a country borrows money for any reason, they have to pay it back, but what happens when a country's interest is higher than their income ?
Your governments idea of this tax cut or whatever they choose to call it only works if the money the American people reseive stays in America and stimulates economic growth in America. The American and Canadian buying power will control econoic growth in our 2 countries as long as we stop buying foreign goods.
By the way, Americans are still getting rich, they are the ones who start these companies in China and Mexico. They have sold this as a humanitarian effort to improve the living standards of the 3rd world population which in theory is a fantastic move, but, the fallout will be felt by us.
I predict that should Africa ever get their shit together, it will be the next 3rd world country to reap the rewards of manufacturing.
Sorry for the rant.

[jgdrag]

Hey guys, I'm an outsider(Canadian) looking in on your most recent economic position and all I can say from experience is that all those jobs that have left your country,they aren't coming back. You have however been fortunate that is did not happen back in the late 90s. China, unlike Mexico, has taken the opportunity to strengthen their global position through manufacturing and cheap labour whereas Mexico could not adapt or chose not to adapt to the economic opportunity offered to them. One Chinese yen .138 per American dollar. If you owned a manufacturing company, where would your most profitable opportunity come from? China!
It was interesting to learn that Wal-Mart is the 2nd or 3rd largest importer of Chinese goods in America? This cannot be very good for the American economy? But, American and yes Canadian people still shop there daily?
When a country borrows money for any reason, they have to pay it back, but what happens when a country's interest is higher than their income ?
Your governments idea of this tax cut or whatever they choose to call it only works if the money the American people reseive stays in America and stimulates economic growth in America. The American and Canadian buying power will control econoic growth in our 2 countries as long as we stop buying foreign goods.
By the way, Americans are still getting rich, they are the ones who start these companies in China and Mexico. They have sold this as a humanitarian effort to improve the living standards of the 3rd world population which in theory is a fantastic move, but, the fallout will be felt by us.
I predict that should Africa ever get their shit together, it will be the next 3rd world country to reap the rewards of manufacturing.
Sorry for the rant.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Blackflag
It's not a good option, it sucks. But we're out of good options. Really, what else do you do?

Honestly, I wish they would rebate more money. Take the medicine once, then hope the economy rebounds to pay it all off.

I'll tell you what would be a real bitch...to take on this $145m debt, then have it not be enough to make a real difference.

That's why the markets went down on Fri., people were disappointed that this package may not be high enough.

Extending unemployment benefits has been shown to be one of the most effective returns on spending there is. It's something like $1.70 (in spending) is returned for every $1 spent. But partisan economists that are full of shit ideology over realist pragmatism will only advocate tax cuts. Something that only helps those with money to begin with...

[Blackflag]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Extending unemployment benefits has been shown to be one of the most effective returns on spending there is. It's something like $1.70 (in spending) is returned for every $1 spent. But partisan economists that are full of shit ideology over realist pragmatism will only advocate tax cuts. Something that only helps those with money to begin with...

It's about time somebody said something interesting.

The resistance is probably a gut reaction people have to paying people for not working...but, by the numbers, that probably makes sense.

[WACF]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Extending unemployment benefits has been shown to be one of the most effective returns on spending there is. It's something like $1.70 (in spending) is returned for every $1 spent. But partisan economists that are full of shit ideology over realist pragmatism will only advocate tax cuts. Something that only helps those with money to begin with...

When things haven fallen as far as they have for you guys...yeah I think this is exactly right.

But...there is a point before it gets that bad that tax breaks are fine.
I am middle class and I will take and spend every extra dollar I get...as long as the social net stays intact it is sustainable.

One thing I find interesting though is when I was in Elko, Nevada last June the different people(all in mining) I talked too were having a very hard time finding skilled and unskilled labour...the one company was starving for mechanics...and these guys all pay well.

Do you guys have a high or low enemployment rate?

[WACF]

Originally posted by Blackflag
It's about time somebody said something interesting.

The resistance is probably a gut reaction people have to paying people for not working...but, by the numbers, that probably makes sense.


The things with EI is that it is only supposed to get you through till your next job...not be a way of life.

Like anything else out there people abuse it and fuck it up for everyone.

[78/84 guy]

When will we have to stop listening to this countries number 1 DUMBFUCK !!!!! whoever voted for this piece of shit should be fucking ashamed of themselves !!!

[jgdrag]

Double post

[jgdrag]

Originally posted by 78/84 guy
When will we have to stop listening to this countries number 1 DUMBFUCK !!!!! whoever voted for this piece of shit should be fucking ashamed of themselves !!!

Nobody had to vote for him. It was the plan of the New World Order. The Internation Bankers own everyone! While you are at it, check out Illuminati!

[Blackflag]

Originally posted by WACF
The things with EI is that it is only supposed to get you through till your next job...not be a way of life.

Like anything else out there people abuse it and fuck it up for everyone.

Exactly.

The other thing that occurs to me now - unemployment is a state-run thing, not federal. And I know states have already extended their unemployment repeatedly.

So if we're talking about things the president/federal can do, unemployment isn't it...

The Elko thing is a funny observation, because there are all kind of places to find work. But I see people landing in expensive places where it's hard to find a job, then complaining.

It used to be people migrate to where the jobs are. Now people go to where they'd like to live, and demand that people facilitate their living there. Give me a fucking break, says I.

[jhale667]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
No good choices: Granted

JHale pissed: Granted


Oh, fuck this.
:mad:

[Nickdfresh]

http://msnbcmedia3.msn.com/i/msnbc/Components/ArtAndPhoto-Fronts/BUSINESS/080122/AP-asia-markets-080122.gif

I guess the combination of world stocks tumbling overnight and today and the losses of of Bank of America and Wachovia are casting a pall on today's market opening.

They're predicting a three digit loss of up to 500 points on the Dow.

Lounge is right, and pretty much everyone agrees; this "stimulus plan" sucks and we're going to have a lot of pain...

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Blackflag
Exactly.

The other thing that occurs to me now - unemployment is a state-run thing, not federal. And I know states have already extended their unemployment repeatedly.

So if we're talking about things the president/federal can do, unemployment isn't it...

The Elko thing is a funny observation, because there are all kind of places to find work. But I see people landing in expensive places where it's hard to find a job, then complaining.

It used to be people migrate to where the jobs are. Now people go to where they'd like to live, and demand that people facilitate their living there. Give me a fucking break, says I.

The Feds can offer assistance to augment the states rather than just cutting federal taxes and reducing the money back to the states, effectively shifting the tax burden --which is what they've really been doing...

[scamper]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
while Congressional Democrats, in a rare show of Washington bipartisanship, pledged to work with him to enact a plan quickly.

I agree it doesn't make much sense, but it according to this you can't put all the blame on the repubs.

[ELVIS]

Originally posted by DLR'sCock
You know, when there are enough jobs in this country that actual pay real wages and real salaries for more than enough of the middle and lower classes of the country then people SPEND money.





What...:confused:

Where do you suggest we find the funds to pay people $20 an hour to flip your burger ??


:elvis:

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by ELVIS
What...:confused:

Where do you suggest we find the funds to pay people $20 an hour to flip your burger ??


:elvis:

:rolleyes:

Did he mention "burger flippers"? no.

Here's a thought for you though, mensa...

Should Exxon / Mobil, who just posted the largest quarterly PROFITS in the HISTORY of the WORLD get tax breaks in the billions?

Should Healthcare middlemen who do nothing but attempt to deny you coverage get to reap billions in profits?

Should we currently carry a defense budget LARGER than the REST of the WORLD COMBINED?


What was that Jesus quote about treating the least among us?????

What was the camel / needle reference to?

Who will inherit the earth? Halliburton?


Shove your strawman bullshit, E. It doesnt work here anymore.

:gulp:

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by scamper
I agree it doesn't make much sense, but it according to this you can't put all the blame on the repubs.

I blame the REPUKES in power from 2000-2006 and their runaway spending / graft for the REASON we need this "stimulus"

Jack Abramoff ringing any bells?

Duke Cuningham?

Ted Stevens?


The REPUKES have driven this country financially into the ground.

Hear anyone running as a "Bush Republican" ??

:gulp:

[LoungeMachine]

dupe

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by scamper
I agree it doesn't make much sense, but it according to this you can't put all the blame on the repubs.

That's true...

But remember which asshole is in the White House right now, and who undermines everyone's faith in our government's ability to deal with any crisis. Everyone both foreign and domestic apparently...

[scamper]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
That's true...

But remember which asshole is in the White House right now, and who undermines everyone's faith in our government's ability to deal with any crisis. Everyone both foreign and domestic apparently...

Can't argue with that....

[ELVIS]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
:rolleyes:

Did he mention "burger flippers"? no.



Ok, is a more lucrative job to be created out of thin air for the burger flipper from the middle and lower classes of the country ??

Businesses in the free market who post the largest quarterly PROFITS are responsible for creating the highest paying jobs, and MORE OF THEM. Be it OIL or what ever they produce...

[Hyman Roth]

Then why not change the anti-trust laws and allow two or three tri-
opolies run the whole show, according to that logic?

[jgdrag]

Originally posted by Hyman Roth
Then why not change the anti-trust laws and allow two or three tri-
opolies run the whole show, according to that logic?

Thirteen are running the whole show, not chimpy

[jgdrag]

Originally posted by jgdrag
Thirteen are running the whole show, not chimpy

Let me collaberate on the 13

American dollar bill
13 stripes
13 berries
13 stars
13 leaves
13 arrows

Why 13?

http://www.stage6.com/user/KapTwice/video/2048452/The-Illuminati-and-the-New-World-Order--

[WACF]

Damn...and here I always thought the number 13 on your money had something to do with history and the 13 original colonies...

[WACF]

...evilarchy...I like that....

[Lqskdiver]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
I'll give you that.

And we're working on it as we speak.

But beware, you aint gonna like what some of the moves are behind the scenes.

I suggest www.pornotube.com from now on...

:gulp:

I prefer www.pornkolt.com. Makes the work day go by quicker.

Btw, Lounge, will you be grumbling on your way to the bank to cash your evil rebate.

Or will you send it back to government, i.e. not cash it.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Lqskdiver
I prefer www.pornkolt.com. Makes the work day go by quicker.

Btw, Lounge, will you be grumbling on your way to the bank to cash your evil rebate.

Or will you send it back to government, i.e. not cash it.


Won't be getting any according to the income caps I've been reading...

But if they did send me one, I'd probably use it to pay off my bets with knuckleboner :D

:gulp:


I get your point, though. Yeah, I'd keep it. But that's probably why I aint getting one. They want to send these to people who will IMMEDIATELY go out and blow/spend it. :cool:

You think this "plan" is a good idea, Lq???

[jgdrag]

Originally posted by WACF
Damn...and here I always thought the number 13 on your money had something to do with history and the 13 original colonies...

Not to worry with the Amero coming in for Canadian, American and Mexican currency

[Lqskdiver]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Won't be getting any according to the income caps I've been reading...

But if they did send me one, I'd probably use it to pay off my bets with knuckleboner :D

:gulp:


I get your point, though. Yeah, I'd keep it. But that's probably why I aint getting one. They want to send these to people who will IMMEDIATELY go out and blow/spend it. :cool:

You think this "plan" is a good idea, Lq???

It's a quick fix, no doubt and will give the market a slight boost. It should help stabilize the market from totaling blowing it's jizz.

But the interim proposal will not solve current market woes. This all began with the housing bubble going pop and stock concerns worrying investors. It will take some time to adjust and restabilize. Possibly with the introduction of new technology, that always gets investors blood pumping. That is really the only solution I can see that can really "turn" things around. Who knows...the discovery of a safer form of abundant energy such as using flatulence (Nitrogen/methane) for powering our vehicles.

Stranger things have happened.

Btw, I haven't learned of any details concerning the economic growth package. Do you have a link you can provide?

[Blackflag]

I leave for a week, and the place degenerates into the same idiot rep/dem bullshit...it's like fucking romper room.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Blackflag
I leave for a week, and the place degenerates into the same idiot rep/dem bullshit...it's like fucking romper room.

:rolleyes:

Dude, put it to rest for Christ's sake. :rolleyes:

1] Gone a week? wow. You make me proud.

This was actually just your waqy of letting everyone know, in case we hadn't yet all wondered alound "where's Blackflag and his amazing insights"??

Pretentious, or just passive-agressive? Can't be sure.

"degenereates" in to the same...... :confused:

Newsflash, buttercup. It's always been this way. As the Forum Macaca you should have grasped this by now.

But again, this was your way of saying: "see, I try and bring some intelligent middle ground here, but you're all too stupid to follow my lead" :rolleyes: Get over yourself.

This place has ALWAYS been partisan. It's always been filled with rancor and hatred. It's a fucking message board. Not the Algonquin Roundtable for God's sake.

And if it's so Romper Room, then why do you bother to engage?

Surely you're not so stupid as to think you're going to CHANGE anything/anybody in here.

If you're only here for the entertainment value fine. many of us are. But stop with the pretentious bullshit.


:gulp:

I'm now ready for your reply telling me what an idiotic asshole I am. :D

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Blackflag
I leave for a week, and the place degenerates into the same idiot rep/dem bullshit...it's like fucking romper room.

:rolleyes:

Dude, put it to rest for Christ's sake. :rolleyes:

1] Gone a week? wow. You make me proud.

This was actually just your waqy of letting everyone know, in case we hadn't yet all wondered alound "where's Blackflag and his amazing insights"??

Pretentious, or just passive-agressive? Can't be sure.

"degenereates" in to the same...... :confused:

Newsflash, buttercup. It's always been this way. As the Forum Macaca you should have grasped this by now.

But again, this was your way of saying: "see, I try and bring some intelligent middle ground here, but you're all too stupid to follow my lead" :rolleyes: Get over yourself.

This place has ALWAYS been partisan. It's always been filled with rancor and hatred. It's a fucking message board. Not the Algonquin Roundtable for God's sake.

And if it's so Romper Room, then why do you bother to engage?

Surely you're not so stupid as to think you're going to CHANGE anything/anybody in here.

If you're only here for the entertainment value fine. many of us are. But stop with the pretentious bullshit.


:gulp:

I'm now ready for your reply telling me what an idiotic asshole I am. :D

[Blackflag]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine

If you're only here for the entertainment value fine. many of us are. But stop with the pretentious bullshit.


:gulp:

I'm now ready for your reply telling me what an idiotic asshole I am. :D

Why would I stop being pretentious when winding you up is what entertains me?

And I don't think you're idiotic at all... tell us all again why taxes should be raised right now. ha ha.

[Blackflag]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Won't be getting any according to the income caps I've been reading...

So you're retired...but you have a W2 with more than $150? Which is it? :rolleyes: Speaking of trying to impress people...

You're not also a blind veteran, are you? That seems to be a popular story around here.

I may be a cock...but at least I'm not a pretender. ;)

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Blackflag
So you're retired...but you have a W2 with more than $150? Which is it? :rolleyes: Speaking of trying to impress people...

I may be a cock...but at least I'm not a pretender. ;)

Retired, yes.

Investment income, a local club, as well as a few rental properites brings me a decent income.

yes, the ASCAP royalties aint what they once were, but....

Anything else?

:gulp:

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Blackflag
So you're retired...but you have a W2 with more than $150? Which is it? :rolleyes: Speaking of trying to impress people...

You're not also a blind veteran, are you? That seems to be a popular story around here.

I may be a cock...but at least I'm not a pretender. ;)

LMMFAO

The blind veteran gag just come to you?

:lol:

Nice edit.

:D

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Blackflag

I may be a cock...but at least I'm not a pretender. ;)

You'll never have to pretend to be a cock around here.

We believe you. :cool:


:gulp:

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Blackflag
Why would I stop being pretentious when winding you up is what entertains me?

And I don't think you're idiotic at all... tell us all again why taxes should be raised right now. ha ha.

You're here to wind me up?

sad, really.


Taxes should be raised right now on certain people and businesses.

Fuck if I care if you agree.

Tell us all again what a great plan borrowing $150 billion to dole it out to the poor and middle class is.

Why not take that money, and reinvest into our infrastructure like Roosevelt.

Good paying jobs, needed improvements.


Back to my original point of the thread....

The REPUBLICAN led congress and white house got us into this mess, and now they want to BORROW / BRIBE their way out.

And I think it sucks.

:gulp:

[Blackflag]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Investment income, a local club, as well as a few rental properites brings me a decent income.

investment incomes + rental income =/= "earnings" for IRS purposes.

So take your check and go buy a shiny new pickup.

[Blackflag]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine

Taxes should be raised right now on certain people and businesses.

Fuck if I care if you agree.


I'm not saying I disagree with you. I'm saying every economist in the world disagrees with you. Even the most tax-happy, giant welfare-state loving democrats in Congress know there needs to be a rebate. Fuck. :rolleyes:

[Blackflag]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine


The REPUBLICAN led congress and white house got us into this mess, and now they want to BORROW / BRIBE their way out.



The only members of congress who can shirk the blame are those who voted against the AUMF.

Who is that? Kucinich and Paul? Anybody else?

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Blackflag
I'm not saying I disagree with you. I'm saying every economist in the world disagrees with you.

Bullshit :rolleyes:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/19/business/19stimulus.html

But then again, it doesn't fucking matter.

I stated MY opinion on the "rebate" *I* don't like it.

If you do, bully for you. More crack money, right? ;)

:gulp:

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Blackflag
investment incomes + rental income =/= "earnings" for IRS purposes.

So take your check and go buy a shiny new pickup.

I guarantee you I aint getting the bribe. :rolleyes:

But if I do, I'll happily donate it to the site for help with the new software.

But where do YOU shop for new pickups?

$1,200-1,600 for a new pickup in Yakima?

Only if the VIN is scratched off and a new ignition is installed.


Speaking of donating to the site........

:gulp:

[Blackflag]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine


http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/19/business/19stimulus.html


Nowhere in the article does anybody say that raising taxes now would help the economy. You're the only one that says that.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Blackflag
The only members of congress who can shirk the blame are those who voted against the AUMF.

Who is that? Kucinich and Paul? Anybody else?

Iraq isn't the only black hole our beloved BushCO has thrown money into, but your point is made......

So you're saying let's borrow another few hundred billion for people to shop at Wal-Mart with?

fuck

:rolleyes:

And MOST economists agree the 2001 "rebate" went to pay off debt.

Shit, cut out the middle men and give the money directly to the banks then.

Why this charade?

I'll tell you why.

2008 = ELECTION YEAR.

NOBODY is going to run on NO REBATE FOR THE MIDDLE CLASS except RP and DK

Dennis has dropped out, and Ron Paul will be cone Feb. 6th.

:gulp:

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Blackflag
Nowhere in the article does anybody say that raising taxes now would help the economy. You're the only one that says that.

LMMFAO

No Rebate = Raising Taxes

No wonder we're where we are today.

:(


Anybody else notice we're in a time of war[s], with massive debt and deficits?

Help!!!!!

:gulp:

[Blackflag]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine

So you're saying let's borrow another few hundred billion for people to shop at Wal-Mart with?

And MOST economists agree the 2001 "rebate" went to pay off debt.


A. Yes, that's the idea. Even the economists in the article you cited say that's the idea.

B. Bring a quote. You have no support for that statement.

C. A recurring theme in this thread: you still have presented no better alternative. To quote you, you're just "tearing down somebody else's idea with no solution of your own."

Bottom line - like it or not - there is no better way to inject money into the economy quickly than putting cash into people's pockets immediately.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Blackflag
Nowhere in the article does anybody say that raising taxes now would help the economy. You're the only one that says that.

Which begs the question.....

If I'm the only moron out of 6 billion people on earth that thinks this, why are you STILL bothering to debate me?

Living the life, Blackflag.

Way to kill a Sunday. Arguing with the ONLY person in the world who thinks taxes should be raised in a time of war[s] :D

I also have posted threads in here calling for a $5.00 a gallon tax on most gas purchases, to be used for mass transit, light rail, and alternative fuel research.

See, I think gas is TOO cheap in this country. We're spoiled.

If you've spent any time in Europe, you'd agree.

But then again, there's that pesky Big OIl Lobby to contend with.





Tell us.....

What are YOU going to do with your Bribe?, er....I mean rebate check?


:gulp:

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Blackflag
Nowhere in the article does anybody say that raising taxes now would help the economy. You're the only one that says that.

Which begs the question.....

If I'm the only moron out of 6 billion people on earth that thinks this, why are you STILL bothering to debate me?

Living the life, Blackflag.

Way to kill a Sunday. Arguing with the ONLY person in the world who thinks taxes should be raised in a time of war[s] :D

I also have posted threads in here calling for a $5.00 a gallon tax on most gas purchases, to be used for mass transit, light rail, and alternative fuel research.

See, I think gas is TOO cheap in this country. We're spoiled.

If you've spent any time in Euopre, you'd agree.

But then again, there's that pesky Bi OIl Lobby to contend with.





Tell us.....

What are YOU going to do with your Bribe?, er....I mean rebate check?


:gulp:

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Blackflag

B. Bring a quote. You have no support for that statement.

.

The majority of consumers saved or paid off a debt rather than spending it," said Matthew Shapiro, professor of economics at University of Michigan, who co-wrote the second report.

http://www.heraldextra.com/content/view/252159/18/


10 seconds via Google.

I've read many more.

But then again I ask you....

If I'm so bat-shit wrong, why have you spent so much time arguing this with me?
:D

:gulp:

I answered your question, yet you havent answered mine.

Typical of you.

:rolleyes:

[Blackflag]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
No Rebate = Raising Taxes

Living the life, Blackflag. Way to kill a Sunday.

I also have posted threads in here calling for a $5.00 a gallon tax on most gas purchases,

1. Correct me if I'm wrong, but no rebate = leaving taxes unchanged.

2. That's about it. I busted balls all week and just got back into town, it's raining, so I'm just hanging around.

3. I think raising gas tax is actually a good idea. There's no way you could call that regressive, because working folks don't need gas to get back and forth to work. Also, a huge increase in shipping, trucking, and air travel costs would likely spur business activity. No doubt employment would increase.

I've actually spent a lot of time in Europe, and you're right...western Europe has been an economic powerhouse over the past 20 years.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Blackflag


C. A recurring theme in this thread: you still have presented no better alternative. To quote you, you're just "tearing down somebody else's idea with no solution of your own."


:rolleyes:


FROM THIS THREAD.......



Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Repeal Bush's tax cuts....

Cut Big Oil's Corporate Welfare...

Stop starting wars..........

Quit outsourcing jobs........

Stop loopholes that allow war-profiteers such as Halliburton from moving to Dubai while cashing our checks.





Originally posted by LoungeMachine


Why not take that money, and reinvest into our infrastructure like Roosevelt.

Good paying jobs, needed improvements.





Fucking hypocrite.


I've offered my OPINIONS on other ways to deal with this Republican-led crisis.

Where's your's?????


Jesus Christ :rolleyes:

[Blackflag]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
And MOST economists agree the 2001 "rebate" went to pay off debt.

. . .

The majority of consumers saved or paid off a debt rather than spending it," said Matthew Shapiro, professor of economics at University of Michigan, who co-wrote the second report.


I answered your question, yet you havent answered mine.

1. One professor is not "most economists."

2. What is his evidence? Seriously, how would he know what people spent their money on?

3. I answered you why I'm arguing - I don't feel like going out, and I'm wasting time on the internet. Don't let it give you a woody, but you really are a fun guy to talk to. :)

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Blackflag
1. Correct me if I'm wrong, but no rebate = leaving taxes unchanged.

2

That';s not RAISING taxes, as you keep bleating about.


Originally posted by Blackflag


3. I think raising gas tax is actually a goodidea. There's no way you could call that regressive, because working folks don't need gas to get back and forth to work. Also, a huge increase in shipping, trucking, and air travel costs would likely spur business activity. No doubt employment would increase.


So you're FOR raising taxes??? :confused:

See, I too can play that game.

Read my post again, I said a gas tax on MOST purchases, leaving room for business and the poor not to pay it.

Buy an Escalade and drive it 60 miles a day alone? $10 / gal.

:gulp:

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Blackflag
1. One professor is not "most economists."

2. What is his evidence? Seriously, how would he know what people spent their money on?

3. I answered you why I'm arguing - I don't feel like going out, and I'm wasting time on the internet. Don't let it give you a woody, but you really are a fun guy to talk to. :)

1] I said I've read many reports, you asked for ONE quote.

That's all I have interest for today, sorry.

2] How the fuck would I know? I'm not an economics prof. :D

3] :)



:gulp:

[Blackflag]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
:rolleyes:


FROM THIS THREAD.......









Fucking hypocrite.


I've offered my OPINIONS on other ways to deal with this Republican-led crisis.

Where's your's?????


Jesus Christ :rolleyes:

We already dealt with those. Repealing the tax cuts means raising taxes.

There's arguably to way for the president to stop outsourcing at all..sure as hell not in the next few months.

Stop starting wars...no shit, but too late now.

The infrastructure thing...Don't get it. You don't want to give people checks, but you'll give them ongoing paychecks for years to do make-work jobs (digging ditches and filling them up)? It's the same thing, just more expensive - even more debt to take on.

I mean - you may have a point with that one - maybe get something in return for the money - but there's no way to do it in the next few month. Period.


What I do like: collecting taxes from the oil companies. If the president/congress had any ethics, they'd also investigate for antitrust.

[Blackflag]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine

Read my post again, I said a gas tax on MOST purchases, leaving room for business and the poor not to pay it.


I think you know what sarcasm is.

And that's always the answer for everything, isn't it? Bend over, middle class - we want to promote good behavior by using your labor.

The poor won't have to pay, the rich won't care, business won't have to pay...but the middle class guy trying to get to his job gets fucked. How would you even do that nice little fuck job, anyways? Gas stations have two gas prices, depending on what your income is? Holy shit.

That makes sense.

Again, before you look to Europe for ideas...might want to see how great their economies have done. You might also see the results of high taxation along the way.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Blackflag
We already dealt with those.

Yet you still claimed I haven't offered any alternatives.

Which is it?

I haven't. Or I have, but you already dealt with those, and now require more?

And check the avg fuel economy of the middle class' autos in europe against our's.

While you're at it, compare mass transit.


We in the US are not going to give up our "addiction" to oil until gas reaches europe-like prices.

Why not pay ourselves the difference, instead of Exxon-Mobil?




Look, I don't have every answer, as much as you expect me to.

But IN MY OPINION this "rebate" is a 3 card monte scheme being paid back by our grand kids so Joe Six pack can fill his tank 4 more times, and Sally can buy the Wal-Mart blue light special.

YOU think it's a good idea, fine.

I think you're wrong.



But neither one of us dictates economic policy for this administration, so we've both wasted ones and zeros arguing about it.



Now, where can I get that new truck for $1,600.00 you promised? :D



:gulp:


Out.

[Blackflag]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine

And check the avg fuel economy of the middle class' autos in europe against our's. While you're at it, compare mass transit.


But IN MY OPINION this "rebate" is a 3 card monte scheme being paid back by our grand kids so Joe Six pack can fill his tank 4 more times, and Sally can buy the Wal-Mart blue light special.

Now, where can I get that new truck for $1,600.00 you promised? :D




1. Agree we need better fuel economy and mass transit. But dreaming about the future won't help the economy today.

2. Agree it's borrowing against the future. But no alternative. You can try to boost the economy today to hopefully pay off the debt in the future. Or you can let it crash and pay off an even bigger bill in the future.

3. I heard you can buy a car made in India now for $2000. I bet it's sporty.

[scamper]

Originally posted by ELVIS
What...:confused:

Where do you suggest we find the funds to pay people $20 an hour to flip your burger ??


:elvis: Our grandparents had a word for burger flipping-they called it opportunity.

[scamper]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
I also have posted threads in here calling for a $5.00 a gallon tax on most gas purchases, to be used for mass transit, light rail, and alternative fuel research.

See, I think gas is TOO cheap in this country. We're spoiled.

I agree we need a temporary tax hike to pay off some debt, but if you slapped a 5.00 per gallon gas tax on America you would bring the economy to its knees. Think about air fare, trucking, people who live in rural areas. That would kill this nation.

[scamper]

Although I'm for a TEMPORARY tax increase the more the people in this country are taxed the closer to socialism we are. Has anyone here every tried to figure out what percent of their income is taxed. I'm not just talking about income tax, but gas tax, food tax, capital gains tax, service tax, sales tax..... the list goes on and on and it all comes from our income. Add it up sometime, it's scary.

[jgdrag]

I believe this is a red herring. This appears to be part of a bigger plan within North America? The lost jobs aren't coming back. When Canada was hit with the NAFTA agreement (Mexico) took our jobs. Then the export of jobs started to go to China which caused a problem within our economy. Fortunately, 85% of our exports were to America and that kept the country alive. Unfortunately, with the decline of American or Canadian produced vehicles steadily decreasing to the point of plants closing and higher income wokers not being able to supplement lost hourly wages has greatly decreased the economic potenial of our two countries. Your present housing delema would support a slow down in the economy of substantion proportions. I also fear that a meltdown is headed for Canada. If 85% of our goods are shipped to America, and there is nobody who can buy our goods due to the American economy, we don't need to export as much which by simple mathematics would create a recession in this country as well.
This to me, appears to be the perfect time to give birth to the North American Union? All the pieces seam to be falling into place for the government of our countries to sell this thinking to the people of our countries?
Only saving grace that could prevent this from happening would be a NEW technology! Something along the lines of electro magnetic propolsion, free energy etc

[Lqskdiver]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Retired, yes.

Investment income, a local club, as well as a few rental properites brings me a decent income.

yes, the ASCAP royalties aint what they once were, but....

Anything else?

:gulp:

I don't think the royalty distributions have anything to do with it, but more in line with the quality of the product that did pay out enough dividends in the long run. Sorry, my 2 cents. ;) :gulp:

As for retired, whatever happend to March 5??

[Blackflag]

That's cold.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Lqskdiver
I don't think the royalty distributions have anything to do with it, but more in line with the quality of the product that did pay out enough dividends in the long run. Sorry, my 2 cents. ;) :gulp:



Couldn't disagree if I want to.... :cool:




Originally posted by Lqskdiver
As for retired, whatever happend to March 5??

It's the day after March 4th? :D

:gulp:

Ya never told me what you think of this "plan" for a "rebate", Liquid.

:confused:

[Lqskdiver]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine


It's the day after March 4th? :D



Sorry, for some reason I thought March 5th was big day in your calender...something I might have read. Disregard...



:gulp:

Ya never told me what you think of this "plan" for a "rebate", Liquid.

:confused:

I did but you were too busy debating Obama you didn't see my response. "There's three people in this debate, Wolf".