The Myth of Nazareth

[Seshmeister]

http://www.nazarethmyth.info/home

The Myth of Nazareth meticulously reviews the archaeology of the Nazareth basin from the Stone Age to the present, and shows that the settlement of Nazareth came into existence in the early second century C.E., well after the time of Christ. In this study René Salm reviews all the structural and movable evidence from the first excavations in the late 19th century to the most recent reports. This review also encompasses the extensive secondary literature, found in books and reference articles in dictionaries and encyclopedias. Salm shows that traditional conclusions found in all these works regarding the settlement of Nazareth are radically inconsistent with the itemized evidence in the ground.

http://www.nazarethmyth.info/lamps.jpg

These six oil lamps were discovered in a Nazareth tomb, and have been used in the scholarly literature as proof of a village at Nazareth in Hellenistic times, as early as the third century BCE. In fact, the six lamps date from the Middle Roman to the Late Roman periods, long after the time of Christ. Gross misdatings of the primary evidence, sometimes involving discrepancies of up to 500 years, are frequently encountered in the Nazareth literature.


The compromised archaeology of Nazareth
The Myth of Nazareth shows that the village came into existence not earlier than 70 C.E. (the climax of the First Jewish War), and most likely in early II C.E.—the same era in which the canonical gospels were being edited. Furthermore, this study shows that there was a long hiatus in settlement in the Nazareth basin between the Late Iron Age (c. 700 B.C.E.) and Middle Roman times (c. 100 C.E.). Finally, it is probable that the extensive remains in the Nazareth basin from the Bronze and Iron Ages are in fact to be identified with biblical Japhia. These conclusions are based on a unanimity of the material evidence from multiple excavations in the Nazareth basin. Whether we are speaking of “Herodian” oil lamps (which constitute the earliest Roman evidence), glass, metal, or stone objects, inscriptions, coins, “kokh” tombs with or without rolling stones, wall foundations, or agricultural installations—all of these point to a Jewish settlement beginning in early II C.E. and thriving in Late Roman and Byzantine times. Extra-archaeological data confirm this conclusion.

In an explosive revelation, The Myth of Nazareth shows that a number of Roman tombs (not mentioned in any guidebook) exist directly under the Church of the Annunciation, the most venerated site in Nazareth. This locus was part of a cemetery during Roman times. It could not have been the domicile of the Virgin Mary—a proposition abhorrent in a Jewish context for, according to Torah, tombs were never located within the precincts of a Jewish village, nor near or under habitations. Both the traditional chronology and location are in error, for the cemetery at Nazareth came into existence several generations after the alleged time of the Virgin.


The background
Most scholars summarily dismiss the “invention” of Nazareth on the grounds that the town is frequently mentioned in the Christian gospels. Unwittingly, archaeology is thus held hostage to literary considerations. The textual case for Nazareth in the gospels is much weaker, however, than is generally supposed. The settlement is named only once in the Gospel of Mark, at 1:9 (other instances in the Greek text read “Jesus the Nazarene”). The passage as it stands demonstrably conflicts with the remainder of the gospel, which locates Jesus’ home in Capernaum. Thus, it can be shown that the Gospel of Mark contains the later interpolation of a single word, “Nazaret” at 1:9.

Furthermore, the literary genesis of Nazareth occurs in one of the most problematic passages of Christian scripture, Mt 2:23: And he went and dwelt in a city called Nazaret, that what was spoken by the prophets might be fulfilled, “He shall be called a Nazoraean.” No such prophetic utterance has been identified in the Jewish scriptures. For its part, the Gospel of Luke is equally problematic. The enigmatic scene in the Nazareth synagogue (Lk 4:16-30) has been shown to be an elaborate reworking of prior materials. Furthermore, the third evangelist demonstrates a strident anti-Capernaum stance, one which impels him to divorce Jesus as much as possible from Capernaum roots.

A flawed record
The archaeological record of Nazareth has been written principally by Franciscan excavators on site. Subsequent reviews of critical finds in journals and monographs, by Israeli archaeologists and others, often contradict the conclusions of the Church and form an important part of The Myth of Nazareth.

The Myth of Nazareth reveals an embarrassing history of unscientific fieldwork, tendentious publication, and suppressed evidence reaching back many generations. It is a searing indictment of one school of biblical archaeology.

Where did Jesus come from?
The Myth of Nazareth: The Invented Town of Jesus invalidates a central element of Christian tradition. The weighty consequences of its argument inevitably entail a reexamination of the meaning of “Nazarene/Nazoraean,” a reconsideration of the provenance of Jesus, a questioning of the motives of the evangelists in changing that provenance, and a clarification of the textual means by which they did so. The formidable repercussions of this general reassessment on the traditional interpretation of the gospel record can hardly be overstated.

The Myth of Nazareth: The Invented Town of Jesus is the first volume of A New Account of Christian Origins. A subsequent volume will explore the rationale and methodology behind the invention of “Nazareth” by the evangelists. These volumes support a paradigm shift in Christian studies, one with telling consequences for the interpretation of early Christianity, the assessment of the gospel witness, and the traditional portrait of Jesus.

[Seshmeister]

So you are left with the Nativity stuff is BS

http://rotharmy.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=25360&perpage=30&pagenumber=1

the crucifixian didn't happen and now even Nazareth didn't exist.

Scientology is looking more believable...

[kwame k]

so is easter bunny:>

[thome]

Don't Worry Folks thome to the rescue.

No need to post ,"Yey or Ney "on this one. I will solve all issues and minimalize the -Reading-. Reading is not fundemental it's a pain.


Ok here we go......


Son of a bitch you candy ass! anyone can disprove anything in refference to Religion or Faith.

So simple... just assininely fukkin pussy, BS.

Why don't you do this ....if you want to seem like you have the answer
if you want to really make people think your something special with you -Miraculous- discovery that all is a lie.

Prove that it is all the truth, prove god exists ,proove jesus is the answer.


Holy crap the world is full of pussy mother fukkers.

PROVE WHAT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO PROVE!!!!!

Then... maybe..... I will think you are more than just another Kont!

PUNKS!

Thanks, I will be signing autographs in the mezzanine.

[bueno bob]

Not surprising, really...the Bible is full of historical timeframe inconsistancies. Of course, it doesn't really change anything per se...many scientific historical occurances have been dated incorrectly and proven after the fact, but it doesn't change the fact that these things historically still happened. And there are many other events, locations and persons written about in the bible that have been verified.

It's a give and take thing, basically if you look at the bible as historical semi-fiction, you're about halfway there. The rest of it is just up to personal decision and whatever people are comfortable with.

[bueno bob]

Originally posted by thome
...Prove that it is all the truth, prove god exists, prove jesus is the answer.

That's the atheists latest philosophical safehouse argument - that it's the duty of the religious to prove that their perspective is correct. I submit that it ISN'T anybody's moral obligation to prove something they have to take on faith alone, unless the believer is asserting that he/she is confident beyond any doubt and everybody else is wrong.

This is why I take a more middle of the road approach and don't begrudge anybody believing anything, from Islam to Christianity to Judism to the Flying Spaghetti Monster...

Personally, until mankind has explored every quadrant of the universe, perfected time travel and answered every single unknown, there's room for ANYTHING to exist, and more possibility for it then most people would care to believe. Just because the laws of science and relativity exist in a particular facet in this small neck of the universe, there's nothing to say that there's not a wildly different constant a couple universes/dimensions over.

The first thing to understand, in regards to science, religion and the universe, is that mankind is infantile in his age and adolescent in his knowledge. We are, without any doubt, in a constant stage of growth and evolution, which is really what gives the religious argument so much time honored fun...

Anybody, atheist, religious or otherwise, who asserts that we've discovered it all and know for a fact that no version of any Godhead exists (in whatever form, energy, actualized, hell even alien) are truly the most blind.

Open minds are never a bad thing. You can at least evolve from that. A closed mind leads you nowhere.

[Nitro Express]

Nazareth. Don't mess with a son of a bitch!!!

[Nitro Express]

I think Christianity is slowly running out of steam. That being said there will always be the crowd who hold onto it no matter what kind of evidence comes forth.

Religion tends to crumble over generations and the new and upcoming generations are not buying into the same religion their parents and grandparents did.

[binnie]

Originally posted by bueno bob
That's the atheists latest philosophical safehouse argument - that it's the duty of the religious to prove that their perspective is correct. I submit that it ISN'T anybody's moral obligation to prove something they have to take on faith alone, unless the believer is asserting that he/she is confident beyond any doubt and everybody else is wrong.

This is why I take a more middle of the road approach and don't begrudge anybody believing anything, from Islam to Christianity to Judism to the Flying Spaghetti Monster...

Personally, until mankind has explored every quadrant of the universe, perfected time travel and answered every single unknown, there's room for ANYTHING to exist, and more possibility for it then most people would care to believe. Just because the laws of science and relativity exist in a particular facet in this small neck of the universe, there's nothing to say that there's not a wildly different constant a couple universes/dimensions over.

The first thing to understand, in regards to science, religion and the universe, is that mankind is infantile in his age and adolescent in his knowledge. We are, without any doubt, in a constant stage of growth and evolution, which is really what gives the religious argument so much time honored fun...

Anybody, atheist, religious or otherwise, who asserts that we've discovered it all and know for a fact that no version of any Godhead exists (in whatever form, energy, actualized, hell even alien) are truly the most blind.

Open minds are never a bad thing. You can at least evolve from that. A closed mind leads you nowhere.

Brother Bob speaks the Truth!

For my money, the only thing more annoying than a fundamentalist, unthinking Christian is a fundamentalist, unthinking atheist.

[bueno bob]

Originally posted by Nitro Express
I think Christianity is slowly running out of steam. That being said there will always be the crowd who hold onto it no matter what kind of evidence comes forth.

Religion tends to crumble over generations and the new and upcoming generations are not buying into the same religion their parents and grandparents did.

I think it's more likely that people are moving away from large churches and organized religion...with people like Jim and Tammy Baker, Pat Robertson, and Jimmy Swaggart having lead by example for as many years and they did, it's certainly understandable.

I wouldn't think it's so much in decline as in a state of evolution. Many people today are willing to concede that Jesus was most likely married and had children, there's simply too much evidence to suggest the contrary anymore. I think it's because of that that the face of Christianity is changing, and will continue to change. Hell, it's not the same religion now that it was 200 years ago, let alone 1800.

Hopefully this means that open mindedness and tolerance for others is beginning to seep in, too.

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by bueno bob
That's the atheists latest philosophical safehouse argument - that it's the duty of the religious to prove that their perspective is correct. I submit that it ISN'T anybody's moral obligation to prove something they have to take on faith alone, unless the believer is asserting that he/she is confident beyond any doubt and everybody else is wrong.

This is why I take a more middle of the road approach and don't begrudge anybody believing anything, from Islam to Christianity to Judism to the Flying Spaghetti Monster...

Personally, until mankind has explored every quadrant of the universe, perfected time travel and answered every single unknown, there's room for ANYTHING to exist, and more possibility for it then most people would care to believe. Just because the laws of science and relativity exist in a particular facet in this small neck of the universe, there's nothing to say that there's not a wildly different constant a couple universes/dimensions over.

The first thing to understand, in regards to science, religion and the universe, is that mankind is infantile in his age and adolescent in his knowledge. We are, without any doubt, in a constant stage of growth and evolution, which is really what gives the religious argument so much time honored fun...

Anybody, atheist, religious or otherwise, who asserts that we've discovered it all and know for a fact that no version of any Godhead exists (in whatever form, energy, actualized, hell even alien) are truly the most blind.

Open minds are never a bad thing. You can at least evolve from that. A closed mind leads you nowhere.

No right sane person would ever assert that we've discovered everything and know that a Godhead does not exist,

What they may say is just because we don't know for example what black matter is does not mean that people can just make shit up and that somehow has validity.

Fantastical claims require fantastic evidence. Or even a bit.

I don't object to people believing in the spaghetti monster if it doesn't affect anyone else either but you live in a country where not believing in the equivalent means that you cannot hold high political office.

Closed mind is the opposite of an athiest position. In fact athiest is an unfortunate word it's better described as an unbeliever or not indoctrinated. The vast majority of athiests are not absolutely 100000% sure there isn't a spaghetti monster or an infallible paedophile prophet who had a flying horse or a Jesus myth guy, we just say if you are going to base anything on these myths lets see some tiny bit of evidence.

Apply scientific theory to this peer reviewed repeatable evidence.

Science allows you to post on this website.

Religion/superstition allows you to do what?

Kill people?

Cheers!

:gulp:

[Seshmeister]

For example I'll be honest here I don't understand video projectors.

You know those things with the three bulbs that project video in bars or whatever onto a blank screen. I can understand how a CRT TV works with the pixels on the TV being set to different intesities making up the colors and so the picture.

BUT I don't understand how the three lightbulbs can project acrosss a room and make up a picture.

Because I don't understand that I don't think 'Oh it's a God doing it. Let's call him Kodak the light god.' If I could be bothered I could sit down and read about how this works.

In 300AD or so when they were inventing the Christian religion as a means of controlling the population they didn't know shit about anything. You could transplant any of us there with a laptop and we could be gods.

Scientology is laughable to anyone who isn't mentally ill but basically christianity is just as silly but has been around for so long because it wiped out it's compeditors back in the day it has insane amounts of false validity.

Cheers!

:gulp:

[bueno bob]

The unfortunate side to that is that I can't offer any scientific validity at all for my own set of beliefs (which I'll refrain from discussing too deeply, if at all possible). The reason being is that some of the things I have experienced which have led me to my own personal conclusions defy any ability of commonly accepted scientific law to explain.

Of course, that means nothing to you or anybody else...which is completely logical and expected...but it does leave me in the position where I have to answer two simple questions:

1. Can I scientifically explain this, can I prove it?
2. Am I insane, mentally unbalanced or hallucinating what I'm experiencing here?

The answer to these two questions being a "No", I was forced to the conclusion (the only remaining conclusion there was) that what I am seeing and experiencing existed outside of the boundaries of the common accepted scientific realm. This isn't going to convince anybody of anything, but on a personal level it was monumental.

Thus, it's a matter of faith. I can't prove anything I believe with actual evidence, but that alone does nothing to say "It didn't happen then"; as an intelligent, rational adult of somewhat higher than norm intelligence, I researched my own experience enough to determine that physical science and practical universal law as a constant could not do anything to explain it, and in fact it was unexplainable.

And yet, it was a relatively minor event in so far as metaphysics are concerned.

BUT - defeating that, I had all the personal experience and personal evidence I needed to know that (at the very least) there was a higher order level of consciousness and a set of governing laws regarding metaphysics in the universe. By experiencing that and seeing it actualized, the possibility that a supreme intelligence very well could be controlling everything in the unseen world (and invisible in ours) was not entirely an unfathomable grasp. And as a former non-believer in anything that wasn't scientifically provable, I came to realize just how limited scientific explanations were - in fact, how trapping in their limited scope.

BUT - I can't prove any of it. Even if a video tape had been running, there would have been ample room for argument (controlled conditions, footage editing, etc...you can find room to argue against almost any evidence's authenticity if you look deep enough and try hard enough).

So...we arrive back at square one: how does a believer of any measure offer up any evidence for the existance of the supernatural? Realistically, he cannot. And even if he COULD, there'd be plenty of room for people to argue against it. And they would. Even if God Himself descended from the Heavens and said "Yo, bitches, here am I", a large portion of the world would say "Ahh, it's all special effects".

Proving evidence for a faith based article is impossible. Always will be.

So...OK, yeah, I'm done now. :D

[LoungeMachine]

My question has always been thus:

IF Jesus died at 33, and went to heaven, and sat with his dad, and rules paradise for all eternity......

What exactly did he give up? Life expetancy back then was what? 40?

He gave up 6-7 years of pretty bleak existence to rule heaven for all eternity?

Where's the "sacrifice''??

When I'm told "Jesus died for your sins" WTF does this even mean?

Does this mean I get to sin now guilt free?


The whole thing just sounds like such a scam, to dupe the stupid.

:gulp:

[bueno bob]

You're supposed to edit that post!

:mad:

[bueno bob]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
My question has always been thus:

IF Jesus died at 33, and went to heaven, and sat with his dad, and rules paradise for all eternity......

What exactly did he give up? Life expetancy back then was what? 40?

Very good point. I think it comes down as to whether or not you can trust any of the time keeping recorded in the bible at all...remember some people living 900 odd years? Plus the fact that Jesus all but disappears for 18 years and what you're left with is admittedly very sporadic.


Originally posted by LoungeMachine
When I'm told "Jesus died for your sins" WTF does this even mean?

Does this mean I get to sin now guilt free?

This is what organized Christianity, I think, is trying to imply. By the expression "He died for your sins", I think they're implying that you're human and bound to fail according to the guidelines set forth (which is true enough); but you can fall without feeling bad about it because all you have to do is get up, dust yourself off, raise your hands to the heavens and go "SORRY DUDE!" and the record is automatically clean.

Which, for people looking for something to believe it at all costs, would be a very effective argument, hmm?


Originally posted by LoungeMachine
The whole thing just sounds like such a scam, to dupe the stupid.

:gulp:

Well, like I said, I think the bible is more fictionalized history that the uncontested word of God, so to speak...I'm not one to speak about what's right or wrong with it or even most of it's accuracy on that level. I'm more of the opinion that the actual truth of this universe is hidden somewhere in between all religions and somewhere where nothing is visible and nothing is known...in the center of all of it lies the essence of truth and all energy, all spiritualism and all power absolute; humans over the years have personalized it into a giant figure that sits on a throne wearing robes with a flowing beard...

In reality, the ultimate power and intelligence of the universe (which is assumed as male and called "God" for simplicity) is probably something entirely different than anything anybody's so far anticipated.

I have come to the belief that the ultimate truth of religion lies in the study of self spiritualism (the soul, as it were) and metaphysics, not in any church or pastor. Or book for that matter; the unfortunate aspect is that the natural human interest in the unknown leads to all sorts of manipulation through religious channels, which is why we end up with fucktards like Pat Robertson and Benny Hinn who can so convincingly lead the sheep wherever they want them to go under the pretense of "God said it's the right thing to do."

I hate religion...but I love the unknown. The problem is that when organized religion shows up under a charismatic leader and says "HERE'S the answers to the unknown!", the easily lead will flock to wherever they point rather than attempting to ascertain any truth for themselves...

[cadaverdog]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
My question has always been thus:

IF Jesus died at 33, and went to heaven, and sat with his dad, and rules paradise for all eternity......

What exactly did he give up? Life expetancy back then was what? 40?

He gave up 6-7 years of pretty bleak existence to rule heaven for all eternity?

Where's the "sacrifice''??

When I'm told "Jesus died for your sins" WTF does this even mean?

Does this mean I get to sin now guilt free?


The whole thing just sounds like such a scam, to dupe the stupid.

:gulp:

This thread in no way belongs here.
But what'swrong with wanting to believe there is more to life than
just getting old and dying?
Explain this , supposedly the universe was formed by gasses that
blew up.
Where in the theory of evolution does it explain this ?
Something from nothing.
Not sure what's out there , but I'm not absolutely certain there's
nothing.

[WACF]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine

Does this mean I get to sin now guilt free?


:gulp:

If you are Catholic...yes...have at 'er...

[binnie]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
No right sane person would ever assert that we've discovered everything and know that a Godhead does not exist,

What they may say is just because we don't know for example what black matter is does not mean that people can just make shit up and that somehow has validity.

Fantastical claims require fantastic evidence. Or even a bit.

I don't object to people believing in the spaghetti monster if it doesn't affect anyone else either but you live in a country where not believing in the equivalent means that you cannot hold high political office.

Closed mind is the opposite of an athiest position. In fact athiest is an unfortunate word it's better described as an unbeliever or not indoctrinated. The vast majority of athiests are not absolutely 100000% sure there isn't a spaghetti monster or an infallible paedophile prophet who had a flying horse or a Jesus myth guy, we just say if you are going to base anything on these myths lets see some tiny bit of evidence.

Apply scientific theory to this peer reviewed repeatable evidence.

Science allows you to post on this website.

Religion/superstition allows you to do what?

Kill people?

Cheers!

:gulp:

I'm sympathetic with your viewpoint Sesh, but the suggestion that religion only allows you to kill people isn't in keeping with the intelligence displayed in the rest of your post.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by cadaverdog
This thread in no way belongs here.



STFU, moron.

You, in no way should talk about what belongs in this forum :rolleyes:

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by cadaverdog

But what'swrong with wanting to believe there is more to life than
just getting old and dying?
Explain this , supposedly the universe was formed by gasses that
blew up.
Where in the theory of evolution does it explain this ?
Something from nothing.
Not sure what's out there , but I'm not absolutely certain there's
nothing.

Once again, everything goes over your head, and you're too stupid to live....

Where in my post does it say I dont believe in a "creator" ?

Where, moron?

I dont believe everything was an accident, just as I sure as hell dont believe that stupid archaic Reader's Digest everyone puts so much stock in.

The Bible is a great piece of FICTION.

And you, are a fucking idiot. Every thread, every time.

:rolleyes:

[VanHalener]

"Jesus is just alright with me"
(Doobie Brothers)
(VanHalener)

[LoungeMachine]

Jesus Is Coming !!!



















Everybody look busy

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by bueno bob
You're supposed to edit that post!

:mad:

:D

Sorry man.


The Devil Made me do it.

:gulp:

[cadaverdog]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
STFU, moron.

You, in no way should talk about what belongs in this forum :rolleyes:

Not that I'm looking to get into another pissing contest , but
this forum is usualy about war or politics.
You seem to have no tolerance for religion .
I admit some people use religion for their own purposes .
Making money , spreading hatred , even murder .
But what's wrong with the individual who choose to believe but
respects your choice not to.
Is that person harming you?

[cadaverdog]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
My question has always been thus:

IF Jesus died at 33, and went to heaven, and sat with his dad, and rules paradise for all eternity......

What exactly did he give up? Life expetancy back then was what? 40?

He gave up 6-7 years of pretty bleak existence to rule heaven for all eternity?

Where's the "sacrifice''??

When I'm told "Jesus died for your sins" WTF does this even mean?

Does this mean I get to sin now guilt free?


The whole thing just sounds like such a scam, to dupe the stupid.

:gulp:
Since it's a waste of time to try to be civil to you , here's my real opinion.
You are the most biased know it all son of a bitch I've ever heard
You have the balls to call Christianity a scam?
And label all Christians stupid?
You think you are the smartest person on earth .
You call anyone who disagrees with you an idiot.
Whether it's religion , politcs , whatever.
I'm not sure Christianity is the one true faith .
But who the fuck are you to judge anyones beliefs.

[cadaverdog]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Once again, everything goes over your head, and you're too stupid to live....

Where in my post does it say I dont believe in a "creator" ?

Where, moron?

I dont believe everything was an accident, just as I sure as hell dont believe that stupid archaic Reader's Digest everyone puts so much stock in.

The Bible is a great piece of FICTION.

And you, are a fucking idiot. Every thread, every time.

:rolleyes:
You're right asshole you only call Christianity and the holy bible
bullshit.
That rules out Judaism ,too
Do you ever think before you post this bullshit?
Talk about trolling .
You think you can spew this bullshit and not piss people off?
You're the idiot .

[cadaverdog]

Originally posted by binnie
I'm sympathetic with your viewpoint Sesh, but the suggestion that religion only allows you to kill people isn't in keeping with the intelligence displayed in the rest of your post.

[cadaverdog]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
No right sane person would ever assert that we've discovered everything and know that a Godhead does not exist,

What they may say is just because we don't know for example what black matter is does not mean that people can just make shit up and that somehow has validity.

Fantastical claims require fantastic evidence. Or even a bit.

I don't object to people believing in the spaghetti monster if it doesn't affect anyone else either but you live in a country where not believing in the equivalent means that you cannot hold high political office.

Closed mind is the opposite of an athiest position. In fact athiest is an unfortunate word it's better described as an unbeliever or not indoctrinated. The vast majority of athiests are not absolutely 100000% sure there isn't a spaghetti monster or an infallible paedophile prophet who had a flying horse or a Jesus myth guy, we just say if you are going to base anything on these myths lets see some tiny bit of evidence.

Apply scientific theory to this peer reviewed repeatable evidence.

Science allows you to post on this website.

Religion/superstition allows you to do what?

Kill people?

Cheers!

:gulp:
I think the term for someone who is not absolutly sure there is or is not a supreme being is an agnostic.
An atheist is absolutly sure there is no supreme being.
I don't believe Christianity advocates killing.
It is based on forgiveness .
Remember the Lords prayer?
And about the inaccuracies and such in the Bible.
The Bibles we have are someones interpretations of the Bible.
King James version , etc.
Some things could have been misinterpreted in translation.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by cadaverdog



You have the balls to call Christianity a scam?


No, I have the RIGHT, as an American.


Originally posted by cadaverdog


But who the fuck are you to judge anyones beliefs.

Look at YOU, judging MY beliefs.

Quite the hypocrite, are you.


And for the record, cumstain, this forum HAS ALWAYS had plenty of Religious Threads.

You'd know this if you ever bothered to research, before spouting off about that which you know nothing of.


But thanks for proving my point that you're an ignorant, inbred troll.

:gulp:

Still sucking down the pain meds while your brain damaged girlfriend carries your ass?

:D

[thome]

Every one of you punk MF'rs.... the first thing out of your MOUTH when you get your GODDAMN arm blown off would be OH GOD HELP ME JESUS CHRIST HELP ME!!!!

OH SWEET LORD GOD SAVE ME OH GOD!!!!




SO FUKK YOU ALL!

FUKK YOU ALL AND YOUR SELFISH MOUTHS!

LYING MFer

The truth hurts don't it mr athiest.

OPORTUNISTIC PUNKS!

[cadaverdog]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
No, I have the RIGHT, as an American.



Look at YOU, judging MY beliefs.

Quite the hypocrite, are you.


And for the record, cumstain, this forum HAS ALWAYS had plenty of Religious Threads.

You'd know this if you ever bothered to research, before spouting off about that which you know nothing of.


But thanks for proving my point that you're an ignorant, inbred troll.

:gulp:

Still sucking down the pain meds while your brain damaged girlfriend carries your ass?

:D

I don't give a fuck what your beliefs are .
But to call millions of people (Christians)stupid because you
don't agree just shows what an arrogant , know it all , shit
disturber you are.

You have a right to talk any kind of bullshit you want.
That's freedom of speech .
But what gives you the need to put people down.
Your total lack of respect for others just shows you don't respect yourself.

Fuckin smartass.

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by thome
Every one of you punk MF'rs.... the first thing out of your MOUTH when you get your GODDAMN arm blown off would be OH GOD HELP ME JESUS CHRIST HELP ME!!!!

OH SWEET LORD GOD SAVE ME OH GOD!!!!



And a big hand will come down from the sky and of course help you as it often does?

The first thing that came out of your mouth might also be AAAAAAAAAAAARGH CUNT!

I think the best thing might be 'Could someone call a doctor please?'

[thome]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
And a big hand will come down from the sky and of course help you as it often does?

The first thing that came out of your mouth might also be AAAAAAAAAAAARGH CUNT!

I think the best thing might be 'Could someone call a doctor please?'

Yeah whatever it is IMPOSSIBLE TO -NOT BELIEVE IN SOMETHING- WITHOUT BELIEVING IN THAT SOMETHING FIRST!

To seek not the kingdom of heaven is to manifest it's reality... just as much as the grandma on her knees by her bed every night.

every other post in this thread is CRAP!

I am GOD hear me roar ...LMMFAOFF

[LoungeMachine]

If the was a God....

thome would have been on that copter, not SRV

:gulp:

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by cadaverdog
I don't give a fuck what your beliefs are .


Liar.


Originally posted by cadaverdog


You have a right to talk any kind of bullshit you want.
That's freedom of speech .
.

Gee, thanks for stating what I already told you.

You're quick, aint ya? :rolleyes:



Originally posted by cadaverdog

Fuckin smartass.

Damn right.

And you're a fucking hypocite.

Glad we cleared that up, Clem.

Jesus help you clean toilets today?

:gulp:

[LoungeMachine]

Does the fact that the Forum's two biggest trailer-trash morons are both foaming at the mouth because someone dares to question the fairy tales they clung to all their pathetic lives not just strike you as funnier than all get out? :D


Jesus Saves!

But The Republicans keep spending more on killing Muslims

:gulp:

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by cadaverdog
I

But what gives you the need to put people down.




I love that you in the SAME post, you write this:


Originally posted by cadaverdog


just shows what an arrogant , know it all , shit
disturber you are.




LMMFAO


You're even a hypocrite within your own posts.




Look in the mirror, Clem If you can stand to...



Let those who be without sin cast the first stone....

Do unto others......




I love you armchair "Christians" who spout your bullshit, but don't LIVE it. :rolleyes:

:gulp:

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by cadaverdog
Explain this , supposedly the universe was formed by gasses that
blew up.
Where in the theory of evolution does it explain this ?
Something from nothing.


No child left behind...

Seriously go read up on it, it's much more interesting and informative that the writings of superstitious primative goat herders 2000 years ago...

[LoungeMachine]

Seriously, Sesh....

I think he's actually brain damaged.

If half of what he's posted about his past is true, I wouldn't doubt it.

He does, however, put the Ugly, in Ugly American.

:gulp:

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by cadaverdog
This thread in no way belongs here.


True.

But Feedback To Heretics was full.

:gulp:

[thome]

JESUS SAVES NOTHING YOU STUPID DIKK BUT THE DEMOCRATES EAT BROCOLLI!!!!!


Funny how my sentence makes yours look like it was written by a idiot.

STOP THE WAR BUT KILL THE COCROACHES DAILY!!

LOCK YOUR DOOR BUT SAVE THE MOTHER FUKKIN MUSLIMS!!!

DON'T FUKK WITH ME BUT FUKK THAT GUT I DON'T CARE!

REPUKES ARE ALL FAGS KILL SPAMMY GAYBAR...........whatever the fukk you want.

WATCH ME KILL THIS GADDAMNN BEAR THAT MAULED ME' WIFE.... BUT SAVE THE RABBID MUSLIMS THAT WANT ME' HEAD ON A PIKE!!!!.....

KISS MY ASS.

STOP CRIME SAVE THE MF'ers

It is all so funny how you say we are wrong......for believing in something that makes us feel for one short instance that we are more than just this...

If it keeps a MF out of a clocktower I'm all for it.Whatever the Fukk he worships..

If he gets in the tower I say blow his fukkin head off whatever the fukk I worship//

End of Story

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by binnie
I'm sympathetic with your viewpoint Sesh, but the suggestion that religion only allows you to kill people isn't in keeping with the intelligence displayed in the rest of your post.


It was shorthand.

As a leader superstitions promising eternal life are a very useful way of getting people to risk theirs going into war for your political/economic gains which are what 99% of wars are about.

Jeez you only need to read the post of the 'Christian' thome above this one...

Cheers!

:gulp:

[thome]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
It was shorthand.

As a leader superstitions promising eternal life are a very useful way of getting people to risk theirs going into war for your political/economic gains which are what 99% of wars are about.

Jeez you only need to read the post of the 'Christian' thome above this one...

Cheers!

:gulp: BULLSHIT!

over simplified CRAP!

C'MON

PS Seshmeister, I don't believe in SH!T.

Black and White no Grey area.

The Grey area is Tolerance and I have very little.

[cadaverdog]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
I love that you in the SAME post, you write this:



LMMFAO


You're even a hypocrite within your own posts.




Look in the mirror, Clem If you can stand to...



Let those who be without sin cast the first stone....

Do unto others......




I love you armchair "Christians" who spout your bullshit, but don't LIVE it. :rolleyes:

:gulp:
I never said I was a christian , asshole.
I consider myself an agnostic.
If I was a christian I would have called you a heathen.
But I've been to church and I know and have known christians
that believe and have tolerance for those who do not.
Whatever your beliefs , your the intolerent one who stated
christianity is for stupid people , not me.
Defend that statement .

[cadaverdog]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
No child left behind...

Seriously go read up on it, it's much more interesting and informative that the writings of superstitious primative goat herders 2000 years ago...

Science is based on theories not facts .
Religions are based on believes.
What's the difference?
How can anyone be absolutly sure their theory or belief
is the correct one?
Maybe it's a combination of both.
What I do know is true christianity is based on forgiveness .
Some people try to twist christianity to suit their agenda.
Just like they twist any other belief to fit their needs.
Hitler tried to twist science it self for his agenda .
To justify killing millions of people by claiming only
the strong should survive .
The sick .mentally ill , handicapped , dark skinned ,
and anyone else that didn't meet his standards should
be killed .
His version of natural selection.
It is intolerance that causes wars not religion.
Just some times it is the intolerence of others religions
and other ways of life that motivates these conflicts.
Believe everthing I believe or die.

[cadaverdog]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
True.

But Feedback To Heretics was full.


On the forum community page it says this thread is about
the war on terrorism , dedicated to the memory of the victims
of 9/11.
Where the fuck does it say the forum to discuss whatever
Loungeasshole decides to discuss?
I see no mention of politics or religion.
But if they started discussing those subjects elsewhere
you wouldn't be able to control them.
That might lead to open discussions not fitting your
political agenda.
But you could still make smartass "look at me"comments.:gulp:

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by cadaverdog
Science is based on theories not facts .
Religions are based on believes.
What's the difference?


This is probably at least the 15th time this crazy nonsense has come up on this forum and it's starting to get pretty fucking tedious answering it so rather than posting about peer review, being able to repeat through experimentation etc etc. and pointing out yet a fucking gain the reasons why scientists use the word 'theory' I'll try sonething else for the hard of thinking.

Go and fucking google it. Why not start with the theory of Pythagoras and then explain to me how that is a belief rather than a fact! Tell us how a belief in triangles is equal to that theory.

Belief<>Science fucking hell. NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO.

I mean think about it?

"I believe and have faith that if we build a rocket and send it out into space it will arrive in the right place and deliver a satellite to allow cadaverdog to watch the Olympics in China on TV"

"How is that going to work? How high should it go to achieve a geostationary orbit"

"It will because I believe it will"

"Do you think maybe we should use Newtons theories and stick it at 22,236 miles?"

"No I believe I can put it where I want and an invisible cloud guy will sort it all out."

"WTF?"

"Are you questioning my beliefs? How dare you!"

Cheers!

:gulp:

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by thome
BULLSHIT!

over simplified CRAP!

C'MON

PS Seshmeister, I don't believe in SH!T.

Black and White no Grey area.

The Grey area is Tolerance and I have very little.

Over simplified crap is what you get from every preacher in every Christian church each Sunday.

The whole religion is entirely based on the bible so why not go and read about how the bible came into being, particularly the Jesus stuff, who wrote it, why, and what was left out and why?

Cheers!

:gulp:

[Baby's On Fire]

Anyone who believes in the Bible is a total fucking idiot.

The Tooth Fairy is more believable. At least when I was a kid, my tooth was gone from under my pillow. That's some actual evidence.

Pillar of salt? Amusing at the least.

[bueno bob]

Originally posted by Baby's On Fire
Anyone who believes in the Bible is a total fucking idiot.

Well, science and archeology have, in times past, verified the existance of people and places referenced to in the bible. Like I said, I think the bible is closer to fictional history than anything else, but disregarding all of it in face of some of uncovered evidence doesn't make any better sense than believing all of the bible as factual blindly, either.

Fictional history and a rough guideline on how to be a good person, with a lot of fire and brimstone and nonsense interspersed throughout is, I think, the most accurate way to look at it. Disregard all of it if you like, but it has been scientifically authenticated as factual in more than a few areas, in so far as names and dates and locations. It's not entirely inaccurate.

[Baby's On Fire]

On how to be a good person????

Surely you're joking?

The Bible teaches that humans are master over everything.....I say fuck that.

What right does a human have to dominate over or cause the suffering of animals?

The Bible teaches that if I don't FEAR "God", then I will go to Hell, notwithstanding my good deeds as a human being.

Yeah, what a loving and compassionate divine being.........

Fuck off with that horseshit. The Bible isn't worth toilet paper.

Fucking religious babble horseshit.......

[bueno bob]

Originally posted by Baby's On Fire
On how to be a good person????

Do unto others and such...it's pretty basic, if you examine it at it's most basic level, which is truthfully all it's really good for.


Originally posted by Baby's On Fire
The Bible teaches that humans are master over everything.....I say fuck that. What right does a human have to dominate over or cause the suffering of animals?

Well, religious admonitions aside, mankind has (with or without any major religions influence) extended his iron grip across this entire planet to the point where NOTHING is safe from mankind anymore. I'm a realist; I believe this would have happened whether or not any book told humans that it was their natural right.


Originally posted by Baby's On Fire
The Bible teaches that if I don't FEAR "God", then I will go to Hell, notwithstanding my good deeds as a human being.

Agreed, a very good point. For clarity's sake, the translation of the word which is "Fear" is defined as "Love"...but yes, I fully agree that the fire and brimstone bullshit is completely out of line with the overall message of Christianity, and I for one think that Hell and it's practical applications in regards to religion were an invention of middle age witchfinders (for lack of a better term) in order to keep people in line.

If there's any actuality to any of it, my guess is that it's much different. If there is truly a God, I seriously doubt he cares much about religion, or what it tells you that you have to do in order to meet him...


Originally posted by Baby's On Fire
Yeah, what a loving and compassionate divine being.........

I don't personally hold infinity accountable to those of a limited range. I don't blame the guy who rear ended me yesterday for an asteroid in the next galaxy over that just wiped out several thousand aliens...


Originally posted by Baby's On Fire
Fuck off with that horseshit. The Bible isn't worth toilet paper.

Fucking religious babble horseshit.......

But my original point is that it's not entirely fictional - perhaps fictionalized history and more an experiment in social psychology that got really crazy...but different people certainly hold different opinions...

[Baby's On Fire]

The Bible is a work of fiction in its entirety.

The sole purpose of the Bible is for the religious leaders to hold power over their followers, through brain washing and fear.

Same thing holds true for Church and worship, regardless of religion.

I despise religion, for its falsities and corruption. Money is not the root of evil, religion is the root of evil.

Religion is nothing more than man's fear of death.

[bueno bob]

Originally posted by Baby's On Fire
The Bible is a work of fiction in its entirety.

So...Egypt, Jerusalem, Pharaohs, romans, none of that ever existed? All fictional?

Come on.


Originally posted by Baby's On Fire
The sole purpose of the Bible is for the religious leaders to hold power over their followers, through brain washing and fear.

I disagree. Again, I don't think it's anything more than an overly fictionalized account of historical events.


Originally posted by Baby's On Fire
I despise religion, for its falsities and corruption. Money is not the root of evil, religion is the root of evil.

Religion is nothing more than man's fear of death.

That's cool. I certainly understand that point of view, and personally know a lot of people that feel the same way. But...I can say from experience that a lot of people get a lot of good things out of it and I've seen a lot of people turn their lives around and become much better people because of it. My Uncle's a pastor, and the amount of good he's done locally (and yes, globally) cannot be understated by any measure.

I just don't believe everybody who believes a certain thing falls into a cut 'n' paste format. But, that being said, I certainly understand where you're coming from, because I've seen a great deal of that myself...which is why I completely renounce any form of organized religion.

[Baby's On Fire]

Points well taken. You're argument is valid.

I have a cynical view of religion, but I should realize some people do turn their lives around and do good.

It's just too easy for some people to sway too far to the religious right.

That said, there have been unimaginable atrocities caused by religion....the Inquisition, The Crusades, fucking 911...to name only a few.

I despise religion in all forms. One does not need religion to be a good person or to be spiritual. I believe in Mother Earth....in respecting ALL life...not just human life....and being kind to animals. To me, that is the mark of a truly good person, not the belief in some Diety.

[bueno bob]

Originally posted by Baby's On Fire
Points well taken. You're argument is valid.

I have a cynical view of religion, but I should realize some people do turn their lives around and do good.

It's just too easy for some people to sway too far to the religious right.

Yes...I can count more than once when I've been on the victimized end of the stick for not being "Good enough", and that has soured me on organized religion more than anything else over the years...


Originally posted by Baby's On Fire
That said, there have been unimaginable atrocities caused by religion....the Inquisition, The Crusades, fucking 911...to name only a few.

Absolute truth. I personally abhor all of it, and religion is STILL TO THIS DAY accountable for all of it. Worse yet, there's been essentially NO accountability. Religion is fucking run amok on a global level, and there is no doubt of that.


Originally posted by Baby's On Fire
I despise religion in all forms. One does not need religion to be a good person or to be spiritual.

Please don't misunderstand me...I don't think ANYBODY needs religion to be a good person at all...


Originally posted by Baby's On Fire
I believe in Mother Earth....in respecting ALL life...not just human life....and being kind to animals. To me, that is the mark of a truly good person, not the belief in some Diety.

Yes. Couldn't agree more. And I do have to say, if (and I do mean IF) there is some form of higher intelligence in the universe, I would hope sincerely that he/she/it feels the same way...otherwise, I don't think I'd want anything to do with it...

"Follow these rules EXACTLY, don't doubt anything, don't think for yourself, follow ME without exception or you're totally fucked, dude! Oh, and by the way, here's absolutely NO physical evidence of my existance for you to hold up to the light....neener neener neener!" would be a completely bullshit way to ordain yourself to the human race...hell, if that was the case, maybe Satan had the right idea after all... ;)

[Baby's On Fire]

Agreed 100 percent...and good night.

Pleasure having a civilized debate with you, without any name calling.

A rarity on this board.


;)

[cadaverdog]

Originally posted by Baby's On Fire
It's just too easy for some people to sway too far to the religious right.



It's just as easy to go too far the other way.
Generaly , I say live and let live to people who
are involved in shit that don't agree with moraly.
As long as it isn't forced on me , cool , do it.
Polygamy , homosexual marriage , whatever.
To push acceptibility , they preach tolerance .
OK .
But how tolerant do you have to be?
There are sick fucks out there that want you to
tolerate child molestation .
They believe it's ok , so why not be tolerant?
Where do you draw the line on tolerance?

[cadaverdog]

Is there any philosaphy , call it a belief , religion ,whatever
that advocates some form of an afterlife that you will attain just by being a good human?
No worship required , just follow the golden rule and your in.
I would like to start one if one doesn't exist.

[Nitro Express]

I don't think there is a perfect church. They all are man made entities and unfortunately many of them have used superstition and fear of the unknown to control masses of people.

I just can't take the bible seriously. The ancient people who gave us the biblical laws sacrificed animals on burning altars and were full of superstition. The legend of Jesus came from this group. I say most of it is non-sense.

That being said, I do like some aspects of the Jesus character. The Golden Rule is my favorite. Treat everyone like how you would like to be treated. Simple and brilliant. I also like a traditional Christmas and like to call it Christmas even though I don't believe in or worship Christ.

I think it's a wonderful holiday and maybe what Christ should symbolize to all of us is charity and treating people like we would like to be treated ourselves. I hate it when people push their religion on me so I'm not going to push mine on them. If we all did this, the world would be a better place. LOL!

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by cadaverdog
Is there any philosaphy , call it a belief , religion ,whatever
that advocates some form of an afterlife that you will attain just by being a good human?
No worship required , just follow the golden rule and your in.
I would like to start one if one doesn't exist.

See. right there is the sheep mentality PROBLEM I have with organized religions as a whole.

Why would you need to "start one" ????

Why not just live your life as a good person? Why would you feel the need to lable it, and require others to follow your doctrine?

This whole "you're either with us, and follow our rules, or you're going to hell, because our's is the one true way to salvation, and everyone else is a heathen" just cracks me up.

It's like sports teams with collection plates. You guys even have uniforms.


Pray to Me, worship Me, or you go to this place where it's hot all the time???? :rolleyes:


And I've asked this in here many times [because we've talked religion in here many times, you shmuck].....

WHY WOULD ANY "DEITY" CONDEM ME TO ETERNAL SLAVERY, FOR SIMPLY BEING A GOOD PERSON, AND BEING KIND TO MY FELLOW MAN?


And there is simply no difference between a fundamental Muslim, who kills in the name of his God, because he believes a book gives him the right to.... and a Christian who does the same.

"Jesus" was a far-left, bleeding heart LIBERAL according to your holy scriptures.

:gulp:

[Nickdfresh]

I am not much of a believer as I again failed to go to Mass this morning, am eating meat on Fridays, am agnostic, and think the Bible is mostly a politically edited, self-serving document based on revisionist histories. One that was hoisted on the masses for the purposes of political control and nationalism. And that's even before the utter shameful hypocrisies and double standards..

It's pretty clear that the atheists in this thread are lapping their so-called Christian counterparts here. Mainly because most posting here are under(or un)educated morons. So, as someone that claims to have no formal belief system on the meaning of it all, if there is one, I'll play Devils/God's advocate. :) I have seen some more intellectuaizations of spiritual beliefs that I do think have some merit. Some of the Jewish mystics are intriguing, and I find the American Romantics thoughts on "Transcendentalism" to be fascinating, and worthy of more than the typical knee-jerk rejection. Also, while I champion science over the self-serving theological dogma of churches more interested in power and monetary control than in their so-called benevolence, I will say this: many of the sciences propagated by monks and priests, and that there is a particularly strong tradition of science in the Franciscan order that continues to this day...

Please spare me that the tired old "Atheism=Rationality" argument. Again, I celebrate the secular traditions of the enlightenment, but you'll have to point to historical instances of the Bolsheviks, anarchists, and even some of the Nazis, this century's largest champions of atheism, being "enlightened" or rational. And their histories of massacring Catholic Priests in say the Spanish Civil War, for instance, was hardly one of progressive reform towards a better society.

[cadaverdog]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
See. right there is the sheep mentality PROBLEM I have with organized religions as a whole.

Why would you need to "start one" ????

Why not just live your life as a good person? Why would you feel the need to lable it, and require others to follow your doctrine?

This whole "you're either with us, and follow our rules, or you're going to hell, because our's is the one true way to salvation, and everyone else is a heathen" just cracks me up.

It's like sports teams with collection plates. You guys even have uniforms.


Pray to Me, worship Me, or you go to this place where it's hot all the time???? :rolleyes:


And I've asked this in here many times [because we've talked religion in here many times, you shmuck].....

WHY WOULD ANY "DEITY" CONDEM ME TO ETERNAL SLAVERY, FOR SIMPLY BEING A GOOD PERSON, AND BEING KIND TO MY FELLOW MAN?


And there is simply no difference between a fundamental Muslim, who kills in the name of his God, because he believes a book gives him the right to.... and a Christian who does the same.

"Jesus" was a far-left, bleeding heart LIBERAL according to your holy scriptures.

:gulp:

I have tried to tell you before I am an agnostic not a "christian"
And I agree with alot you say , about the scare tactics of religion.
As far as the Bible , the new testament sometimes contradicts
the old.They are really two different philosophys.In the old , you sin
you burn in hell.The new you , sin , you repent , you go to heaven.
The first one , the first time you fucked up , you might as well
do whatever you want , you're fucked anyway.

As far as the Muslims , never read their book , don't know if it advocates killing.
But I don't believe the new testament of the bible(the christian
part) advocates killing of anybody , It advocates forgiveness
even for people who trespass against you.
Some nutcases might try to justify killing , maiming , torturing
jailing , whatever and say it's what the new testament teaches ,
but I must have missed that part.And my grandfather was a
preacher so we were regular churchers.
Charles Manson said the Beatles "Helter Skelter"advised him
to start a race war ,but is that what Lennon/McCartney intended?
Don't blame Christianity for the actions of people that are in direct conflict of it's teachings.

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by cadaverdog
I have tried to tell you before I am an agnostic not a "christian"
And I agree with alot you say , about the scare tactics of religion.
As far as the Bible , the new testament sometimes contradicts
the old.They are really two different philosophys.In the old , you sin
you burn in hell.The new you , sin , you repent , you go to heaven.
The first one , the first time you fucked up , you might as well
do whatever you want , you're fucked anyway.

As far as the Muslims , never read their book , don't know if it advocates killing.
But I don't believe the new testament of the bible(the christian
part) advocates killing of anybody , It advocates forgiveness
even for people who trespass against you.
Some nutcases might try to justify killing , maiming , torturing
jailing , whatever and say it's what the new testament teaches ,
but I must have missed that part.And my grandfather was a
preacher so we were regular churchers.
Charles Manson said the Beatles "Helter Skelter"advised him
to start a race war ,but is that what Lennon/McCartney intended?
Don't blame Christianity for the actions of people that are in direct conflict of it's teachings.

This is an understandable position and pretty much the one I held up until a few years back when I looked into it more closely.

For example because Christian preachers pick and chose the bits of the New Tesatment and duck the crazy bullshit then you get this golden rule, love thing going on.

Of course the nuts choose bits of the Old Testament for their own needs as basically using the OT you can justify almost anything.

Ignoring all the hundreds of inconsistinces not only between the Old and New Testament but also within the NT itself, even the New Testament is not decent moral text to base your life on.

e.g.


Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)



Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)


In the following parable, Jesus clearly approves of beating slaves even if they didn't know they were doing anything wrong.



The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. "But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given." (Luke 12:47-48 NLT)



Infidels and Gays Should Die?



So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other's bodies. Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever. Amen. That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved. When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done. Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, fighting, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They are forever inventing new ways of sinning and are disobedient to their parents. They refuse to understand, break their promises, and are heartless and unforgiving. They are fully aware of God's death penalty for those who do these things, yet they go right ahead and do them anyway. And, worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too. (Romans 1:24-32 NLT)









[/quote]

[Baby's On Fire]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
I am not much of a believer as I again failed to go to Mass this morning, am eating meat on Fridays, am agnostic, and think the Bible is mostly a politically edited, self-serving document based on revisionist histories. One that was hoisted on the masses for the purposes of political control and nationalism. And that's even before the utter shameful hypocrisies and double standards..

It's pretty clear that the atheists in this thread are lapping their so-called Christian counterparts here. Mainly because most posting here are under(or un)educated morons. So, as someone that claims to have no formal belief system on the meaning of it all, if there is one, I'll play Devils/God's advocate. :) I have seen some more intellectuaizations of spiritual beliefs that I do think have some merit. Some of the Jewish mystics are intriguing, and I find the American Romantics thoughts on "Transcendentalism" to be fascinating, and worthy of more than the typical knee-jerk rejection. Also, while I champion science over the self-serving theological dogma of churches more interested in power and monetary control than in their so-called benevolence, I will say this: many of the sciences propagated by monks and priests, and that there is a particularly strong tradition of science in the Franciscan order that continues to this day...

Please spare me that the tired old "Atheism=Rationality" argument. Again, I celebrate the secular traditions of the enlightenment, but you'll have to point to historical instances of the Bolsheviks, anarchists, and even some of the Nazis, this century's largest champions of atheism, being "enlightened" or rational. And their histories of massacring Catholic Priests in say the Spanish Civil War, for instance, was hardly one of progressive reform towards a better society.


Atheism is rationality. Rationality is based on reaching conclusions based on evidence, or the lack thereof.

I can prove beyond any doubt there is no God. It's easy:

There is no evidence of a God, and there has never been any evidence of God. And judging by the lack of even a shred of evidence of a God in 4000 years of recorded history, there will never be any evidence of a God.

And the face of Mary in a stack of flapjacks at a diner in Alabama doesn't count.

Case closed.

[Seshmeister]

I disagree. Not having a shred of evidence there is no god does not prove beyond any doubt there is no god it just means that there is no proof of a god so we should assume there isn't.

[cadaverdog]

Originally posted by Seshmeister

Infidels and Gays Should Die?










[/QUOTE]

This last part refers to the creator granting free will and people
abusing it.
In talking about Gods death penalty , I think this means burning
in hell.
Some of the new testament was written before the crucifiction
(I think) and the you can repent stuff wasn't around yet.

I seem to remember that master and slave shit , I guess if it had
said band together and kick some ass , it wouldn't have gone
well with turn the other cheek .

How about this book of Judas ?
I wonder what it says.
Look out for number one?

[cadaverdog]

Maybe the whole Bible is a fabrication .
Maybe their is no God.
But I know good people who believe in God
who do not push their believes on anyone
and try to live by the golden rule and live and
let live and try to practice forgiveness.
They are not stupid , they just believe in
something that others require proof of.
Why does this piss some people off?
They're not hurting you.

[Seshmeister]

Book of Judas goes to the whole fucking thing about how the Bible was created by Constantine at the Council of Nicea. The same thing goes for the book of Thomas and many others. Constantine was looking for a way of getting some political stabillity via religion hence why some books made it and others didn't. That's why you get shit like the super conservative stuff in conflict with people that try and show Jesus as some sort of revolutionary character. e.g.

[quote]Then he said to them, "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's." Matthew 22:21

I can kind of respect people that know about this shit and there are plenty of Christians that are much smarter than me. I have a big problem though with the plain fact that 99.9% of Christians have no idea about this shit and that the people that they rely on to be experts in theology do intellectual somersaults to get try and get around it and when preaching never ever fucking mention it to their flock. The big irony is that most 'athiests' or unbeleivers or whatever know far more about where the bible came from than the most fundamentalist Christian.

If it all held up then for example you would expect that if you were a preacher guy you would start with the history of the bible, how it came to be etc etc.

The big fucking huge elephant in the room is that they don't because theyknow that people would not accept their intellectual somersaults, bullshit and crap it or would get confused.

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
I disagree. Not having a shred of evidence there is no god does not prove beyond any doubt there is no god it just means that there is no proof of a god so we should assume there isn't.

Cock too many double negatives. Meant to say

I disagree. Not having a shred of evidence that there is a god does not prove beyond any doubt there is no god it just means that there is no proof of a god so we should assume there isn't.

[cadaverdog]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
Book of Judas goes to the whole fucking thing about how the Bible was created by Constantine at the Council of Nicea. The same thing goes for the book of Thomas and many others. Constantine was looking for a way of getting some political stabillity via religion hence why some books made it and others didn't. That's why you get shit like the super conservative stuff in conflict with people that try and show Jesus as some sort of revolutionary character. e.g.

[quote]Then he said to them, "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's." Matthew 22:21

I can kind of respect people that know about this shit and there are plenty of Christians that are much smarter than me. I have a big problem though with the plain fact that 99.9% of Christians have no idea about this shit and that the people that they rely on to be experts in theology do intellectual somersaults to get try and get around it and when preaching never ever fucking mention it to their flock. The big irony is that most 'athiests' or unbeleivers or whatever know far more about where the bible came from than the most fundamentalist Christian.

If it all held up then for example you would expect that if you were a preacher guy you would start with the history of the bible, how it came to be etc etc.

The big fucking huge elephant in the room is that they don't because theyknow that people would not accept their intellectual somersaults, bullshit and crap it or would get confused.

Some preacher quoted some verse about long hair being
unnatural on men and I said bullshit , all the pictures of Jesus
show him with long hair.
The very next verse ( that he didn't want me to see)said
something to the effect of if any man disagrees then let
there be no custom.
What a dick.

[Nitro Express]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
See. right there is the sheep mentality PROBLEM I have with organized religions as a whole.

Why would you need to "start one" ????

Why not just live your life as a good person? Why would you feel the need to lable it, and require others to follow your doctrine?

This whole "you're either with us, and follow our rules, or you're going to hell, because our's is the one true way to salvation, and everyone else is a heathen" just cracks me up.

It's like sports teams with collection plates. You guys even have uniforms.


Pray to Me, worship Me, or you go to this place where it's hot all the time???? :rolleyes:


And I've asked this in here many times [because we've talked religion in here many times, you shmuck].....

WHY WOULD ANY "DEITY" CONDEM ME TO ETERNAL SLAVERY, FOR SIMPLY BEING A GOOD PERSON, AND BEING KIND TO MY FELLOW MAN?


And there is simply no difference between a fundamental Muslim, who kills in the name of his God, because he believes a book gives him the right to.... and a Christian who does the same.

"Jesus" was a far-left, bleeding heart LIBERAL according to your holy scriptures.

:gulp:

Why start one? You can't control the masses and exploit them and become wealthy and powerful off their shame and guilt by just being a nice person.

[Nitro Express]

I still enjoy a nice traditional brainless Christmas. Do we have to worship anything? Hell, I liked getting out of school as a kid. The anticipation and getting presents was almost as good as an orgasm. Now I like to sample Christmas food and treats. Drink Christmas alcoholic beverages and fuck the Mrs. after she shows me her sexy Christmas langerie and gives me a red satin robe. Christmas to me is watching football, spending quality time with the kids, eating well, and fucking a happy wife that loves that time of the year.

So hand me the See's Chocolates and a glass of Champaign please!

[Little Texan]

Here are a couple of my deep thoughts concerning religion:

1. This one came to me the other day out of the blue...you know where the bible talks about when people go to hell they'll be thrown in the lake of fire to suffer for all eternity? Well, how is it that you will suffer if you aren't in your physical body and can't feel pain?

2. If there are beings from other worlds in this vast, infinite universe, which there are more likely to be than not, then do they have christianity and believe in god and salvation and all of the other hogwash as well? Are they going to hell if they don't have christianity? Do they worship a man (Jesus) from another planet that they may not even know exists?

Of course I think all religion is complete bullshit, and have no use for any of it.

[VanHalener]

All you fuckers who think you know what the fuck you're talking about don't know SHIT!

Confimation pending.

[VanHalener]

I am just pissed the fuck off!

God made Van Halen


Van Halen pissed me off!

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by cadaverdog
Some preacher quoted some verse about long hair being
unnatural on men and I said bullshit , all the pictures of Jesus
show him with long hair.


:rolleyes:

You realize he didn't pose for any of those, right, Clem?

He was also BLACK by today's standards.



Originally posted by cadaverdog
What a dick.

Now you know how we feel every time you're here.

:gulp:

[bueno bob]

Originally posted by Little Texan
Here are a couple of my deep thoughts concerning religion:

1. This one came to me the other day out of the blue...you know where the bible talks about when people go to hell they'll be thrown in the lake of fire to suffer for all eternity? Well, how is it that you will suffer if you aren't in your physical body and can't feel pain?

I think they're trying to emphasize that it's eternal torture of the soul, not body. Physical manifestation would have long since ended, but again, if you examine the original writings vs. what was added in the middle ages, the entire concept of hell and punishment goes against what was originally intended; I think a more likely scenario for the non-believer would be...I don't know, disincorporation of spirit after demise? The fire and brimstone bits of the bible can't have any stock placed in them because of the direct contradiction with the overall message. This isn't difficult to see once you really get into studying it.


Originally posted by Little Texan
2. If there are beings from other worlds in this vast, infinite universe, which there are more likely to be than not, then do they have christianity and believe in god and salvation and all of the other hogwash as well?

No. I don't imagine any Godhead really cares that much about religion. I wouldn't think an infinite concept by all translations existing would care that much about such a limited facet of explaining him/her/it, or what concept you subscribed to.


Originally posted by Little Texan
Are they going to hell if they don't have christianity?

No, because Hell as a place of suffering and eternal regret wasn't in any real conceptual practice until right before the dark ages during the witchhunts for non-believers.


Originally posted by Little Texan
Do they worship a man (Jesus) from another planet that they may not even know exists?

No.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Baby's On Fire
Atheism is rationality. Rationality is based on reaching conclusions based on evidence, or the lack thereof.

I can prove beyond any doubt there is no God. It's easy:

There is no evidence of a God, and there has never been any evidence of God. And judging by the lack of even a shred of evidence of a God in 4000 years of recorded history, there will never be any evidence of a God.

And the face of Mary in a stack of flapjacks at a diner in Alabama doesn't count.

Case closed.

Um dude, people are not rationale, and Stalin, Hitler, and Dylan Klebold were all atheists...

Spare me the twaddle...

[cadaverdog]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
:rolleyes:

You realize he didn't pose for any of those, right, Clem?

He was also BLACK by today's standards.




Now you know how we feel every time you're here.

:gulp:

Before you said the bible was fiction , now you're interpreting
it as if it was fact .
If it's fiction and it says he's black , he probably wasn't.
Look up "fiction" , smartass.


Who is this "we" ?
You?
Yeah , I got that a long time ago , yet you feel the need to
constantly reply to anything I say .
This "we" isn't everybody , because I bet a lot more people
dispise you than me.
How many "Cadaverdog is an asshole " threads compared
to "Lounge machine is an asshole"threads ?
Even if you leave out every time I've bitched about you ,
you would still win hands down .:gulp:

[kwame k]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Does the fact that the Forum's two biggest trailer-trash morons are both foaming at the mouth because someone dares to question the fairy tales they clung to all their pathetic lives not just strike you as funnier than all get out? :D


Jesus Saves!

But The Republicans keep spending more on killing Muslims

:gulp:

Hey Bitch!

Don't you ever make fun of trailer-trash!!
Like ma and me say:
http://i27.tinypic.com/2u5tflv.jpg

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by cadaverdog
Before you said the bible was fiction , now you're interpreting
it as if it was fact .
If it's fiction and it says he's black , he probably wasn't.
Look up "fiction" , smartass.




:rolleyes:

Please show me where I'm "interpreting" the Bible as fact, moron.

Jesus Christ you're a fucking idiot.


Originally posted by cadaverdog


This "we" isn't everybody , because I bet a lot more people
dispise you than me.
How many "Cadaverdog is an asshole " threads compared
to "Lounge machine is an asshole"threads ?
Even if you leave out every time I've bitched about you ,
you would still win hands down .:gulp:

I'll take that bet. :D

Taking away YOUR 7 or so threads whining about me? LMMFAO

Give it up, Pigpen.

You've been proven time and again to be nothing more than a fucking troll here.

:gulp:

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by kwame k
Hey Bitch!

Don't you ever make fun of trailer-trash!!
Like ma and me say:
http://i27.tinypic.com/2u5tflv.jpg

LMMFAO

I dont know who you are, kwame...


But you're hands down, the funniest motherfuckers to hit this forum in ages...

:gulp:

[kwame k]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
LMMFAO

I dont know who you are, kwame...


:gulp:

I'm the one on the right

:D

[LoungeMachine]

You're the Rotweiller?

figures.

:gulp:

[kwame k]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
You're the Rotweiller?

figures.

:gulp:

;)