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Matt White
03-15-2008, 10:13 PM
don't know how I missed this one......

http://news.aol.com/story/_a/evidence-of-more-manson-murders-sought/20080315151709990001

http://www.aolcdn.com/aolnews_photos/02/02/20080315163109990010

Evidence of More Manson Murders Sought
JULIANA BARBASSA,Associated Press,AP
Posted: 2008-03-15 19:41:38
Filed Under: Crime News
DEATH VALLEY NATIONAL PARK, Calif. (March 15) - Bone-white stretches of salt, leached up from the lifeless soil, lay like a shroud over the high desert where a paranoid Charles Manson holed up after an orgy of murder nearly four decades ago.

Now, as then, few venture into this alkaline wilderness - gold-diggers, outlaws, loners content to live and let live.

But a determined group of outsiders recently made the trek. They were leading forensic investigators searching for new evidence of death - clues pointing to possible decades-old clandestine graves.

And the results of just-completed follow-up tests suggest bodies could indeed be lying beneath the parched ground. The test findings - described in detail to The Associated Press, which had accompanied the site search - conclude there are two likely clandestine grave sites at Barker Ranch, and one additional site that merits further investigation.

Next step, the ad hoc investigators urge: Dig.

For years, rumors have swirled about other possible Manson family victims - hitchhikers who visited them at the ranch and were not seen again, runaways who drifted into the camp then fell out of favor.

The same jailhouse confessions that helped investigators initially connect the band of misfits living in the Panamint Mountains to the gruesome killings that terrorized Los Angeles hinted at other deaths. Manson follower Susan Atkins boasted to her cell mate on November 1, 1969, that there were "three people out in the desert that they done in." Other stories surfaced. In the absence of bodies, they were forgotten.

"We prosecuted Manson and the family for all the murders we could prove. But you know, could he have killed someone else? Possibly. Could another member of the family have killed someone? Sure," said Steve Kay, a former deputy district attorney.

Last month, equipped with cutting-edge forensic technology, the investigators assembled in the ghost town of Ballarat for a 20-mile ride in all-terrain vehicles to the ranch.

The team included two national lab researchers carrying instruments to detect chemical markers of human decomposition, a police investigator with a cadaver-seeking dog, and an anthropologist armed with a magnetic resonance reader.

Also in the group were a woman whose life was forever marked by the cult's brutal murder of her pregnant sister, and a gold prospector who was once Manson's closest neighbor and remains intimate with the sharp creases of the Panamints.

Prospector Emmett Harder guided the expedition.

He had a claim on Manley peak, one of the jagged points looming over Barker Ranch, while the Manson family camped out there in the late 1960s. He shared dinner with the band at times, and gave the men work.

During one of these visits he heard Manson say, "We're not hippies; we're here to get away from the troubles of the world."

Later, Harder would learn more about the cult leader's belief that the end of the world, which he called "Helter Skelter," was near - and Manson's conviction that through murder, he had a role to play in accelerating that chaotic time.

For the last 5 miles of the rugged gravel road from Ballarat, the route tilts sharply upward as it enters narrow Goler Wash.

"The family's plan was to make this impassable - you can see how you could do that here," said Sgt. Paul Dostie, a police detective and dog handler from the town of Mammoth Lakes, pointing to the boulders that protrude like bones from the canyon walls. Any of them could be rolled into the wash, blocking passage.

Barker Ranch was one of several hideouts used by Manson and his followers.

The killings that launched the cult onto national newspapers had been orchestrated from Spahn Ranch, a former Western movie set that served as backdrop to episodes of "Bonanza" and "The Lone Ranger."

http://www.aolcdn.com/aolnews_photos/08/07/20080315162709990001Nearly 40 years later, Tate and others have returned to the Barker Ranch to look for other victims. In November 1969, "Family" member Susan Atkins told a cell mate that there were "three people out in the desert that they done in."

was to Spahn that the killers initially retreated after the 1969 murders of Gary Hinman on July 31; Sharon Tate, Jay Sebring, Voytek Frykowski, Abigail Folger and Steven Parent on Aug. 9; and Leno and Rosemary LaBianca on Aug. 10.

This was to signal the start of the apocalyptic race war that Manson told his followers would pit blacks against whites. He preached that they would emerge from the desert at the end and rule over the survivors.

But a daybreak raid on Spahn Ranch on Aug. 16 by Los Angeles sheriff's deputies looking for car thieves netted 26 arrests. All were released a few days later on a technicality - a misdated warrant - but Spahn was no longer safe.

Barker Ranch was where Manson withdrew in those last, frenzied days.

Retracing his steps nearly four decades later, the search group stopped at the dilapidated house. From the porch, the view was clear for miles, broken only by the long twisted stems of creosote bushes and knee-high bunches of desert rabbitbrush.

"After the murder, my mom became a shell of herself," said Debra Tate, who was 17 when her sister, actress Sharon Tate, was killed. Her younger sister Patti was 11. "I filled in at home, as best I could."

Debra Tate's mother, Doris Tate, emerged from years of depression when she heard that a Manson family member was seeking parole.

She gathered 350,000 signatures, helping keep the murderer in prison. She also lobbied successfully to change state law to ensure the rights of victims' family members to make statements during sentencing and parole hearings.

Doris Tate died in 1992. Her youngest daughter, Patti, followed in 2000. Now Debra Tate, 10 years younger than the glamorous, doe-eyed Sharon, whom she grew up admiring, attends the parole hearings alone.

"My mother specifically asked me to carry on," she said, adding, "It's my life."

She has given herself two tasks, she said: making sure her sister's killers never go free, and helping other families find the peace that has eluded her.

"If there are bodies here," she said at the ranch, "we need to find them and send them home."

About 100 yards behind the house, Dostie readied his trained dog, Buster, for the search.

"Go find Fred!" Dostie said, releasing the dog on the command that sends him searching for human remains.

The dog bounded away, zigzagging over the terrain. Then he lay down in a depression in the ground, quivering, ears upright. Buster looked at his trainer and emitted a high-pitched whine.

"He's alerting," Dostie said, throwing the dog his reward and planting a flag on the site.

Meanwhile, Arpad Vass and Marc Wise, senior researchers from Tennessee's Oak Ridge National Laboratory, were readying the first of the instruments they'd brought, capable of chemically detecting evidence of decades-old human bodies. It was a hand-held device shaped like a gun.

"It's a crude sniffer," said Vass. "It gives us a quick indication of areas we want to come back to."

The machine detects fluorinated hydrocarbon compounds, one of the approximately 400 types of volatile organic compounds emitted by human bodies during decomposition. Focusing on these compounds is important because Vass believes they're formed as the fluoride added to urban drinking water is released after death.

Their presence helps differentiate a human bone from bones from wild animals, explained Vass, who has spent years developing a decomposition odor database using bodies donated to the Oak Ridge lab.

The instrument beeped at regular intervals. As it approached the ground, the beeping accelerated until it was a steady stream of sound.

"That's impressive," said Wise, a senior researcher at Oak Ridge specializing in environmental analytical chemistry. Vass agreed.

Using a thin, 3-foot long probe, Vass tested the soil in the area. It slid into the ground without much effort.

"Undisturbed soil isn't this easy to probe," he said.

"The loose soil area is roughly like this," he said, using the tip of the instrument to draw a long oval on the ground. "It's about three feet deep."

"We need to do an IR," he said, turning to Wise.

He was calling for the next piece of machinery - larger and heavier, but more specific. It could be calibrated to detect different compounds, using technology known as infrared spectroscopy to "read" a particular molecule's profile.

"We're getting the highest hits here, where the ground is soft," said Wise. "There's definitely something down there," he said. "We just can't know yet exactly what until we dig."

"Or who," said Vass.

The men crouched close to the ground, gathering three samples of dirt from each area of interest for further analysis using more finely tuned lab equipment that could not be brought into the field.

The group broke for lunch. Dostie shared bread and cold cuts in front of the ranch house where Manson was finally arrested, in October 1969, after being found crammed in a bathroom cabinet.

Afterward, Daniel Larson took up his part of the investigation. An archaeologist at California State University, Long Beach, Larson has used Ground Penetrating Radar and a magnetometer - an instrument that can peer 12 feet into the ground - in archaeological work and to help find burial sites.

At Barker Ranch, he took 5,327 readings of the ground at the suspect site, stopping every four inches within a 26-by-20-foot grid, looking for discrepancies that indicated earth had been moved.

"What I'm looking for is the pit, not the bones," he explained.

He'll have to return later to use the Ground Penetrating Radar. The soil still held some moisture from recent storms, and that could disturb the results.

Watching the scientists do their work, Harder spoke of his memories of the Manson clan - the churlish, armed young men, the pretty girls with blank, doll-like expressions.

"I didn't feel real easy around them," he said. "They picked up all kinds of people - hitchhikers and stuff."

He particularly remembers two teenage runaways who escaped the ranch, then stopped at a nearby mining camp for food. They had enough fear in them to make it out of the rugged mountains barefoot, said Harder.

They turned themselves in to the California Highway Patrol at the mouth of Anvil Springs Canyon - booked as Stephanie Jean Schram, 17, a runaway from Anaheim, and Kathryn Rene Lutesinger, 17, a runaway from Los Angeles, on Oct. 10, 1969.

"Both females stated that they were attempting to run away from 'Charlie' the leader of the 'family' and that they were afraid of their lives," read the CHP report.

Their fear was well-founded. Following the police raid on Spahn Ranch in August, Manson and the family killed ranch hand Donald "Shorty" Shea for "snitching" and buried him out there.

That body wasn't found until more than eight years later.

"I dug it up myself" about a quarter-mile behind the ranch house, said Sgt. Bill Gleason, a now-retired homicide investigator with the Los Angeles Sheriff's Department.

"There were rumors of other deaths, minors killed out in Death Valley," said Gleason, who took part in the original Spahn Ranch raid. "We just didn't have anything concrete to link to the Manson family."

The runaway girls didn't know how close they'd come to becoming another one of these rumors.

The day they turned themselves in, CHP officers headed to Barker Ranch for the first of what would be two car theft raids.

On their way, they arrested two men - booked as Gary Milton Tufts and Randy J. Mourglea - whom they found asleep at the mouth of Goler Wash, a sawed-off shotgun between them. They were from Barker Ranch, CHP said.

When told of the arrests, both girls told officers they believed the armed men were sent "to stop them from walking away," according to CHP's report.

Were others less lucky when they tried to escape?

Vass said that, considering the quantity and the types of markers of human decomposition found, the cadaver dog's response, and the probing exercise, he found enough evidence to warrant further testing at a deeper level and a full-scale excavation at Barker Ranch, according to the report he issued to law enforcement.

"I'd recommend a dig, excavate the sites," said Dostie, who reviewed the report.

But if a body is found on the Barker Ranch, then what?

The likelihood of a new prosecution appears slim. Locating remains would be just the first step, said Patrick Sequeira, the Los Angeles County deputy district attorney who has been in charge of the Manson family parole hearings since Kay's retirement.

"You have to tie them to someone who has disappeared, and there were a lot of people floating in and out of the family environment who were runaways, or hiding out," he said.

Then investigators would have to find out who killed them, where, and who could testify, he said.

The Manson family members currently in prison are already serving life sentences - the maximum penalty allowed at the time the crimes were committed.

Still, Sequeira did not discourage the efforts of the crime scene re-investigators. "I'd love to see them put something together," he said.


Copyright 2008 The Associated Press.

Baby's On Fire
03-15-2008, 10:30 PM
Charlie don't surf.

I'd love to see them let Charles out. He's been in prison long enough and has served his time. Besides, he never killed anyone.

Why is he in jail in the first place?

I loved his dance moves in 1985 or so when Geraldo interviewed him.

Panamark
03-15-2008, 10:47 PM
He never killed anyone ??

Did I miss something ?

Baby's On Fire
03-15-2008, 10:49 PM
Originally posted by Panamark
He never killed anyone ??

Did I miss something ?

Who did he kill?

He was at home singing Beach Boys songs when the killings occured.

The people who actually did the killing are out on parole if I'm not mistaken.......why is Charlie in prison?

Panamark
03-15-2008, 10:58 PM
Hey, I dont know all the details, I just read that he personally
killed Sharon Tait (not sure if thats the right spelling) a Playboy
Bunny at the time and wrote "pigs" in her blood on the walls..

And that she had child at the time ??

I also read that Dennis Wilson used to hang out with him
and Charlie Manson was obsessed with the Beatles song
Helter Skelter.. Thought it was telling him to kill dudes
or some shit...

Thats my possible ignorant take on the Manson story..

Is that all wrong ???????

Baby's On Fire
03-15-2008, 11:06 PM
Charles Manson literally did not kill anyone. He was accused of having "ordered" the murders. He was not on the scene at any time.

The people who did the killing fingered Charlie, and he's the guy still in jail. What the fuck is that?

I think it's all BS. If I tell you to kill someone and you do it, who's guilty?

Charles did a great performance when Geraldo interviewed him; he danced up a storm and I think he deserves time off for entertaining behaviour.

Let the dude out now.

Panamark
03-16-2008, 12:14 AM
Interesting, guess I got sucked into a picture the media
wanted me to see....

Crazy looking bugger, looks like he is on a permanent
shroom trip...

Baby's On Fire
03-16-2008, 12:19 AM
That's why he should be set free.

He can do more good amusing us all, than he is rotting in prison.

I still don't understand what Charlie is allegedly guilty of............

He's nothing more than a scapegoat for the prosecutors at the time to further their own careers. They used Charlie as a pawn.........to make it appear they won some major victory against crime....and all the while those who were truly guilty of the crime get a relatively free pass.

That's why the US Justice system is fucked up....Prosecutors should NEVER be an electable positon....it causes corruption.

Panamark
03-16-2008, 01:57 AM
Michael Jackson walking away free from his last trial
makes me believe every word you say regarding this.

That dude was gone for all money, they had backup
witnesses, everything they needed..

Even the jury afterwards said he was guilty ?

Some major movement of funds happened there methinks...

Baby's On Fire
03-16-2008, 09:19 AM
Originally posted by Panamark
Michael Jackson walking away free from his last trial
makes me believe every word you say regarding this.

That dude was gone for all money, they had backup
witnesses, everything they needed..

Even the jury afterwards said he was guilty ?

Some major movement of funds happened there methinks...

I don't think MJ is guilty. He's a target. Let me ask you Mark: If that was YOUR kid, would you let it drop for money?

MJ is a freak, but I don't believe he's a pedophile at all. Call me crazy, but I don't believe it.

Matt White
03-16-2008, 09:46 AM
They shold have gassed him back in the late 60's....saved the taxpayers all that money.....stopped all the freaks from worshiping the guy...he'd be a footnote by now

kastco
03-16-2008, 10:10 AM
Actually Manson is guilty of Felony Murder. You do not actually have to do the murder yourself, just have a hand in it. It was reported also that Manson was at least at one of the murder scenes. I too think that they should let Charles out so the victims family can stone him to death. Now that is entertainment!

Panamark
03-16-2008, 03:58 PM
Originally posted by Baby's On Fire
I don't think MJ is guilty. He's a target. Let me ask you Mark: If that was YOUR kid, would you let it drop for money?

MJ is a freak, but I don't believe he's a pedophile at all. Call me crazy, but I don't believe it.

I thought he was targetted at first too.
But when a young boy describes to police a very
particular, odd birthmark on his cock, and
the police then find the description matches
perfectly (after photographing his cock)
I thought ok, well theres obviously some
shit going down here.. How else would this
kid have known ??

You do remember the first boy who was paid
millions not to go to court dont you ?

Terry
03-16-2008, 05:26 PM
Charlie shot Bernard Crowe with the intent of killing him. Charlie also tied up the LaBianca's, then ordered Tex, Pat and Katie to go in and kill them. Charlie also ordered Tex, Linda, Pat and Susan to go to the Tate residence and kill everyone who was inside.

So you've got one attempted murder, one case where he bound the victims and ordered someone else to kill them and one case where he simply ordered an entire household killed, sight unseen.

Anyone who wants to argue Manson should be freed because he didn't ACTUALLY kill anyone clearly has a screw loose, because Manson ordering the victims killed was, legally, the same as if he had done it himself.

cadaverdog
03-16-2008, 05:52 PM
Originally posted by Terry
Charlie shot Bernard Crowe with the intent of killing him. Charlie also tied up the LaBianca's, then ordered Tex, Pat and Katie to go in and kill them. Charlie also ordered Tex, Linda, Pat and Susan to go to the Tate residence and kill everyone who was inside.

So you've got one attempted murder, one case where he bound the victims and ordered someone else to kill them and one case where he simply ordered an entire household killed, sight unseen.

Anyone who wants to argue Manson should be freed because he didn't ACTUALLY kill anyone clearly has a screw loose, because Manson ordering the victims killed was, legally, the same as if he had done it himself.

I was pretty sure Charlie was at the LaBianca murder and the way the law reads now if you participate in a crime and someone dies whether
you did the killing or not you are guilty of murder.
I'm not sure if that was the law then.

As far as Micheal Jackson , jurors in his last trial said afterword
that he probably had molested little boys but they didn't beieve
the boy that was accusing him was actually molested himself.

Panamark
03-16-2008, 10:10 PM
Originally posted by cadaverdog

As far as Micheal Jackson , jurors in his last trial said afterword
that he probably had molested little boys but they didn't beieve
the boy that was accusing him was actually molested himself.

And you still believe in MJ ?? Dude he has been dodging
the legal system by paying off victims for years....

I saw an interview with Latoya, this is no shit, on an Australian
TV show where she let it slip that she had spoken to Michael
about "the little boys" and how she was concerned that if
he kept doing it the whole family would end up in the shit..

(Words to that effect)

That was about ten years ago. At the time an Australian man
was all over the news as he believed his son had been molested
and was full on pissed off.. Went on prime time current affair.
Thats when Latoya let that comment slip.. Strangely enough
the whole thing went silent, like most his other "boys"

Terry
03-16-2008, 10:11 PM
With Jackson, the most bizarre part is that he had all those allegations brought against him in the early 90s, and yet he continued to engage in having minors sleeping over at his house.

Jackson obviously has a screw loose and so do the parents of the kid whom they let hang out with Jackson after all that biz in the early 90s, regardless of MJ doing anything to the kid or not.

Rat Salade
03-16-2008, 10:57 PM
as crazy as this old fart is, he makes a lot of good points in every single one of his interviews.

cadaverdog
03-17-2008, 12:53 AM
Originally posted by Panamark
Hey, I dont know all the details, I just read that he personally
killed Sharon Tait (not sure if thats the right spelling) a Playboy
Bunny at the time and wrote "pigs" in her blood on the walls..

And that she had child at the time ??

I also read that Dennis Wilson used to hang out with him
and Charlie Manson was obsessed with the Beatles song
Helter Skelter.. Thought it was telling him to kill dudes
or some shit...

Thats my possible ignorant take on the Manson story..

Is that all wrong ???????

Manson did not partiipate in the Tate and friends slaughter.
She was an actress married to Roman Polanski .
She was pregnant and begged fot her life .
The bitch that killed her cut out the baby and layed it on her.
they killed others and wrote shit on the walls with blood.

A couple days later (this time Manson went) they killed a couple in their home also writing on the walls with blood.

On trial at least one girl confessed and said Charlie was trying to
start a race war because the Beatles song "Helter Skelter"
told him to.
He figured the blacks would win and being too stupid to run
things would turn to him for leadership.
Dennis Wilson hung out with Manson for a while and Dennis took
Charlie to Terry Melcher's house( he was Doris Day's son)to
see if Terry could help Manson get a record deal.
Melcher said no and told Dennis that Manson was dangerous
and he should avoid him.
Dennis took his advice .
Terry and girlfriend Candice Bergen moved out of that house
and guess who moved in?
Sharon Tate and Roman Polanski.
Manson didn't know they had moved , looks like he was really
after Melcher and Tate and friends were in the wrong place at
the wrong time.
Check the book "Helter Skelter".
There is a movie also but less detail.

bantonelli
03-17-2008, 02:50 AM
Originally posted by Baby's On Fire
That's why he should be set free.

He can do more good amusing us all, than he is rotting in prison.

I still don't understand what Charlie is allegedly guilty of............

He's nothing more than a scapegoat for the prosecutors at the time to further their own careers. They used Charlie as a pawn.........to make it appear they won some major victory against crime....and all the while those who were truly guilty of the crime get a relatively free pass.

That's why the US Justice system is fucked up....Prosecutors should NEVER be an electable positon....it causes corruption.

May I just add something here that may have been overlooked....

Charlie master-minded and did send his deciples (yes, they thought of Charlie as a "guru" and would do anything for him).

The target of the crime was actually to be Terry Melcher (actress Doris Day's son). Terry was a music producer who had tried to work with Manson along w/Brian Wilson (Beach Boys). Apparently it was Terry who basically told Manson that he did not have a future in music (for whatever reason), which did not sit well with Manson. Terry Melcher had owned the home that Tate & Polanski were either renting or just recently had purchased in Benedict Canyon (Los Angeles). Tate & her guests at the home were the unfortunate victims of the horrendous crime that shook California.

For these reasons, you'll find most Californians to be of the opinion that justice has taken place with those incarcerated for life, including the leader*.

*Other notorious leaders "self made gurus":

Jim Jones
David Koresh

binnie
03-17-2008, 09:49 AM
Well, part of me hopes that there weren't any more murders. But another part of me thinks that they should excavate the site, because if more bodies are there it is only fair to give family members peace of mind.

Manson never killed anyone, that is for sure. But he was the ringleader, and clearly controlled the 'Family' to an almost hypnoctic degree. He should never be released.

cadaverdog
03-17-2008, 04:40 PM
Originally posted by binnie
Well, part of me hopes that there weren't any more murders. But another part of me thinks that they should excavate the site, because if more bodies are there it is only fair to give family members peace of mind.

Manson never killed anyone, that is for sure. But he was the ringleader, and clearly controlled the 'Family' to an almost hypnoctic degree. He should never be released.

The cops are pretty sure Manson himself killed
Shorty Shea .
They didn't find his remains until years after Manson
was already convicted.
At least one of his followers told cops before he was
found that Charlie killed him and cut him into several
pieces .
When his remains were found they were indeed cut
into several pieces.

He should have been killed , like the sentance that
came down said .
He should have been tortured then killed.

Matt White
03-17-2008, 10:10 PM
Originally posted by cadaverdog
The cops are pretty sure Manson himself killed
Shorty Shea .

Exactly

Saddest part of the story?

MANSON did NOT want to be released from prison in the mid-60's...

Panamark
03-17-2008, 11:36 PM
THE former hideout of convicted mass murderer and cult leader Charles Manson might be dug up in a hunt for possible human remains, a Californian sheriff has said.

Bill Lutz, sheriff of Inyo County in East central California, has said officers are examining information provided by investigators who probed terrain surrounding Barker Ranch in Death Valley national park, 320km northeast of Los Angeles.

Preliminary reports suggested the presence of human remains at the site, where Manson and several of his "family" were arrested in 1969 before their trial and conviction on multiple murder counts.

"Our investigators are reviewing the reports now so we can make a determination of what we are going to do," Sheriff Lutz has said. A decision would be made within a month.

"You kind of have to piece all this together and come up with your own ideas about whether there is enough to go out and start digging," he said, cautioning that disturbed ground "could have been caused by several things".

Manson, 73, is among the most notorious inmates in the United States.

He and four of his followers were convicted of seven counts of murder following a crime spree in Los Angeles County that included the killing of five people in the home of actress Sharon Tate, who was pregnant at the time of her murder.

The Manson family have been rumoured to have killed other victims at the Barker Ranch, however, according to reports and investigators.

Sergeant Paul Dostie of Mammoth Lakes Police has led off-duty efforts to locate possible graves at the site. He became interested in the case a decade ago, visiting Barker ranch around 13 times over the past year.

Sergeant Dostie's pet labrador retriever, which has been specially trained to detect very old graves, has identified several possible sites at the ranch, he told AFP.

"It's been a volunteer effort, it's been something I've been interested in for a long time," he said. "I've got a tremendous amount of information that would seem to indicate that some people could have been murdered at the Barker Ranch."

Sergeant Dostie said one of the sites his dog had alerted investigators to meshed with anecdotal evidence of more murders.

"We have one story that Charles Manson and Tex Watson took this girl who wasn't fitting in with the group up to land behind the ranch and came back an hour later without her," he said.

"That was the first area that my dog alerted to. It fits with that story."

kwame k
03-17-2008, 11:50 PM
Maybe it was the crack pipe talking but.........
The TV was on, in the background, and I could of swore they said they were interviewing Old Chuck tomorrow. Didn't hear what station.

Terry
03-18-2008, 08:48 PM
Originally posted by cadaverdog
The cops are pretty sure Manson himself killed
Shorty Shea .
They didn't find his remains until years after Manson
was already convicted.
At least one of his followers told cops before he was
found that Charlie killed him and cut him into several
pieces .
When his remains were found they were indeed cut
into several pieces.

He should have been killed , like the sentance that
came down said .
He should have been tortured then killed.


With Shorty Shea, Steve Grogan (aka Clem / Scramblehead) helped lead authorities to Shea's body years after the crime.

When the remains were found, the entire skeletal system was intact, which led authorities to believe that the story of Shea being cut into several pieces was a myth put out by Charlie, Grogan and Bruce Davis to prevent other Family members from talking to the authorities about Tate and LaBianca (Grogan, who participated in the murder of Shea and was released from prison in the 1980s, confirmed this was the case).

Manson does have a tangled logic and a certain amount of insight, but as the years have gone by, he clearly enjoys playing to the cameras when either interviewed or at his parole hearings. He's well aware of the myths the media have hyped about him over the years, and basically plays a role when interviewed (mostly out of a lack of anything better to do and to just plain fuck with people - a majority of penal workers who have handled Manson over the years claim he doesn't pull his 'Wacky Charlie Manson' act unless the cameras are rolling, and is mostly a model prisoner in terms of behavior).

It serves no purpose to let Manson out now, anyway. The guy has done nothing to avail himself of the opportunities of adult education in the last 39, so he has no skills to help him adapt to the outside world now anyway. It's not like he could get a job, nor would anyone likely hire him, anyway. He'd just end up being taken in by a bunch of young Mansonphiles, starting a new cult and someone else would end up being killed.

Charlie's happy in prison. Most people are happy he's in there, too. Let ol' Chuckles continue to draw swastikas on his forehead, play boogeyman for the tv cameras every now and then, and we (in turn) will say "oooh, isn't he crazy and creepy!!" then go about our business.

cadaverdog
03-18-2008, 09:28 PM
Originally posted by Terry
With Shorty Shea, Steve Grogan (aka Clem / Scramblehead) helped lead authorities to Shea's body years after the crime.

When the remains were found, the entire skeletal system was intact, which led authorities to believe that the story of Shea being cut into several pieces was a myth put out by Charlie, Grogan and Bruce Davis to prevent other Family members from talking to the authorities about Tate and LaBianca (Grogan, who participated in the murder of Shea and was released from prison in the 1980s, confirmed this was the case).

Manson does have a tangled logic and a certain amount of insight, but as the years have gone by, he clearly enjoys playing to the cameras when either interviewed or at his parole hearings. He's well aware of the myths the media have hyped about him over the years, and basically plays a role when interviewed (mostly out of a lack of anything better to do and to just plain fuck with people - a majority of penal workers who have handled Manson over the years claim he doesn't pull his 'Wacky Charlie Manson' act unless the cameras are rolling, and is mostly a model prisoner in terms of behavior).

It serves no purpose to let Manson out now, anyway. The guy has done nothing to avail himself of the opportunities of adult education in the last 39, so he has no skills to help him adapt to the outside world now anyway. It's not like he could get a job, nor would anyone likely hire him, anyway. He'd just end up being taken in by a bunch of young Mansonphiles, starting a new cult and someone else would end up being killed.

Charlie's happy in prison. Most people are happy he's in there, too. Let ol' Chuckles continue to draw swastikas on his forehead, play boogeyman for the tv cameras every now and then, and we (in turn) will say "oooh, isn't he crazy and creepy!!" then go about our business.

Was Shea's head there?

I'm pretty sure Manson actually like jail.
He had spent plenty of time there before he was busted
for the murders.

When I was a teenager we lived near Spawn Ranch on the
outskirts of Simi Valley. Some assholes calling themselves
followers of Manson used to dress up and scare kids .
If we (the stoners) saw them we would beat their asses.
After a while they disappeared.We used to hang in "Mansons
Caves" aka "Stoners Den" in Simi, they are still there but the
locals get pissed if you try to go there.They got tired of all the
litter that the visitors left behind.

Terry
03-19-2008, 07:52 PM
Shea's body was intact, meaning his head / skull wasn't severed off from the rest of his skeletal system when they found it.

Lot of the Manson Family just plain liked to embellish when talking to reporters. Not that they weren't dangerous people, but the realities of the case are often quite a bit different from the myths.

diamondD
03-21-2008, 12:13 AM
Manson also regularly attacks prison guards, punished for his hygiene, and generally causes enough disruption to keep himself in solitary confinement, because he knows he'd get fucked up fast in general population.

Leslie Van Houten is the one that's probably actually closest to possibly getting out, even tho it's a long shot. She's on a year to year parole hearing case now, instead of the 3-5 years it was in the beginning.

Squeaky Fromme is so nuts that she's been eligible to get out and won't go to the parole board to make it happen.

I just got Helter Skelter off Netflix and watched it last night. The old 70s version is still creepy as hell.

I've been looking at this site to get updates on all this new stuff going on: Manson Family Today (http://www.mansonfamilytoday.info/manson.htm)

The testimony of Susan Atkins to the grand jury goes into all of the details of the murders, step by step. None of them should ever see the light of day.

yah
03-21-2008, 01:14 AM
Creepy stuff still to this day..flower power's opposite side

Terry
03-24-2008, 07:54 PM
Van Houten may well see freedom in the next ten years or so.

She actually has a good case to make, as far as the legalities of her incarceration and eligibility for parole go: she's accomplished and completed every requirement needed to be considered acceptable for release, and the parole board has no reason to keep denying her parole and really gives none other than the infamous nature of her crime.

I think she's actually appealing her last parole denial right now.

She really only has a shot because she was only at the LaBiancas (not the Tate house) and there is some discrepancy as to if the one person she actually stabbed was alive or dead when she did it.

Having said all that, don't really think I'd want her living next to me.

Squeaky is still full-on nuts for Charlie. Unlike Pat, Leslie, Sadie and Tex, who have all disavowed Manson, Squeaky still digs him.

cadaverdog
03-24-2008, 09:58 PM
Originally posted by Terry
Van Houten may well see freedom in the next ten years or so.

She actually has a good case to make, as far as the legalities of her incarceration and eligibility for parole go: she's accomplished and completed every requirement needed to be considered acceptable for release, and the parole board has no reason to keep denying her parole and really gives none other than the infamous nature of her crime.

I think she's actually appealing her last parole denial right now.

She really only has a shot because she was only at the LaBiancas (not the Tate house) and there is some discrepancy as to if the one person she actually stabbed was alive or dead when she did it.

Having said all that, don't really think I'd want her living next to me.

Squeaky is still full-on nuts for Charlie. Unlike Pat, Leslie, Sadie and Tex, who have all disavowed Manson, Squeaky still digs him.

He's got a kid with one of them "ladies".
Poor bastard was raised by his grandparents.
They showed his picture , so he probably knows who dad is.