The Maverick and the Media

[Guitar Shark]

March 26, 2008
Op-Ed Contributor
The Maverick and the Media
By NEAL GABLER
Amagansett, N.Y.

IT is certainly no secret that Senator John McCain, the presumptive Republican presidential nominee, is a darling of the news media. Reporters routinely attach “maverick,” “straight talker” and “patriot” to him like Homeric epithets. Chris Matthews of MSNBC has even called the press “McCain’s base” — a comment that Mr. McCain himself has jokingly reiterated. The mainstream news media by and large don’t cover Mr. McCain; they canonize him. Hence the moniker on liberal blogs: St. McCain.

What is less obvious, however, is exactly why the press swoons for him. The answer, which says a great deal about both the political press and Mr. McCain, may be that he is something political reporters really haven’t seen in quite a while, perhaps since John F. Kennedy.

Seeming to view himself and the whole political process with a mix of amusement and bemusement, Mr. McCain is an ironist wooing a group of individuals who regard ironic detachment more highly than sincerity or seriousness. He may be the first real postmodernist candidate for the presidency — the first to turn his press relations into the basis of his candidacy.

Of course this is not how the press typically talks about Mr. McCain. The conventional analysis of his press popularity begins with his military service. If campaigns are primarily about narratives, he has a good and distinguished one, and it would take a very curmudgeonly press corps to dismiss it, even though that is exactly what a good portion of it did to Senator John Kerry’s service record in 2004. Reporters also often cite Mr. McCain’s bonhomie as the reason for their affection. As Ryan Lizza described it last month in The New Yorker, a typical campaign day has Mr. McCain rumbling from one stop to another on his bus, the Straight Talk Express, sitting in the rear on a horseshoe-shaped leather couch surrounded by reporters and talking “until the room is filled with the awkward silence of journalists with no more questions.”

The Washington Post columnist Richard Cohen, citing the conviviality during the 2000 campaign, wrote that “a trip on his bus is, well, a trip.” And as the party master, Mr. McCain is no longer the reporters’ subject. He is their pal.

While other candidates have tried to schmooze reporters this way without success, what has made Mr. McCain’s fraternization so effective is that it comes with candor — or at least the illusion of it. Over the years, reporter after reporter has remarked upon his seemingly unguarded frankness. In 1999, William Greider wrote in Rolling Stone that, “While McCain continues examining his flaws, the reporters on the bus are getting a bit edgy. Will somebody tell this guy to shut up before he self-destructs?”

Imagine, reporters protecting a candidate from himself! But, then again, since the reporters on the bus liked Mr. McCain too much to report on his gaffes, he really didn’t need protection. His candor was without consequence. It was another blandishment to the press.

Yet however much his accessibility, amiability and candor may have defined the news media’s love affair with him in 2000, and however much they continue to operate that way in 2008, there is also something different and more complicated at work now. Joan Didion once described a presidential campaign as a closed system staged by the candidates for the news media — one in which the media judged a candidate essentially by how well he or she manipulated them, and one in which the electorate were bystanders.

By this standard, Mr. McCain’s joviality and seeming honesty with the press in 2000 constituted a very effective scheme indeed, until it came time to woo actual Republican voters. As Time’s Jay Carney once put it, “You get the sense you’re being manipulated by candor, rather than manipulated by subterfuge and deception, but it is a strategy.”

What makes 2008 different — and why I think Mr. McCain can be called the first postmodernist presidential candidate — is his acknowledgment of the symbiosis between himself and the press and, more important, his willingness, even eagerness, to let the press in on his own machinations of them. On the bus, Mr. McCain openly talks about his press gambits. According to Mr. Lizza, Mr. McCain proudly brandished an index card with a “gotcha” quote from Mitt Romney that the senator had given Tim Russert of “Meet the Press,” a journalist few would expect to need help in finding candidates’ gaffes. In exposing his two-way relationship with the press this way, he reveals the absurdity of the political process as a big game. He also reveals his own gleeful cynicism about it.

This sort of disdain might be called a liberal view, if not politically then culturally. The notion that our system (in fact, life itself) is faintly imbecilic is a staple of “The Daily Show,” “The Colbert Report,” “Real Time With Bill Maher” and other liberal exemplars, though they, of course, implicate the press in the idiocy. Mr. McCain’s sense of irony makes him their spiritual kin — a cosmological liberal — which may be why conservatives distrust him and liberals like Jon Stewart seem to revere him. They are reacting to something deeper than politics. They are reacting to his vision of how the world operates and to his attitude about it, something it is easy to suspect he acquired while a prisoner of war.

Though Mr. McCain can be the most self-deprecating of candidates (yet another reason the news media love him), his vision of the process also betrays an obvious superiority — one the mainstream political news media, a group of liberal cosmologists, have long shared. If in the past he flattered the press by posing as its friend, he is now flattering it by posing as its conspirator, a secret sharer of its cynicism. He is the guy who “gets it.” He sees what the press sees. Michael Scherer, a blogger for Time, called him the “coolest kid in school.”

The candidates who are dead serious about politics, even wonkish, get abused by the press for it. Mr. McCain the ironist gets heaps of affection. In this race, though, it has forced some press contortions. While John McCain 2000 was praised for being the same straight talker off the bus as he was on it, John McCain 2008 is praised precisely because he isn’t the same man. Off the bus he plays to the rubes (us) by reciting the conservative catechism; on the bus he plays to the press by giving the impression that his talk is all just a ploy to capture the Republican nomination.

Yet the reporters, so quick in general to jump on hypocrisy, seem to find his insincerity a virtue. When an old sobersides like Mitt Romney flip-flops, he is called a panderer. When Mr. McCain suddenly supports the tax cuts he once excoriated, or embraces the religious right, or emphasizes border security over a path to citizenship for illegal immigrants, we are told by his press acolytes that he doesn’t really mean it, that his liberal cosmology will ultimately best his conservative rhetoric. “Discount his repositioning a bit,” Jacob Weisberg, the editor of Slate, wrote two years ago, “and McCain looks like the same unconventional character who emerged during the Clinton years.” The article was subtitled “Psst ... He’s Not Really a Conservative.”

This suggests that love is blind. It also suggests that seducing the press with ironic detachment, the press’s soft spot, may be the best political strategy of all — one that Mr. McCain may walk on water right into the White House.

Neal Gabler is the author, most recently, of “Walt Disney: The Triumph of the American Imagination.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/26/opinion/26gabler.html?_r=1&ref=opinion&oref=slogin

[kwame k]

It brings up an interesting point.

What tune will the media play at this tap dance?

The media in general is an Idol Builder but also a Fair Weather Friend. They will turn on anyone or anything in search of that Almighty rating point or circulation spike. They build you up one day and the next tear you down. Wait for your “heart felt, tearfully, remorseful apology” then talk about how courageous it was for you to hold that press conference. Will stop a nationally televised crisis for a good juicy sex scandal and have reporters that without a teleprompter couldn’t construct an original thought at gun point. Where the fuck is our Edward R Murrow. The media should be required to take a year course in his career before even being able to be in journalism. Every American IMO should have to at least know how the fuck that cat is and where the fuck is his national holiday!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry, I’m better now.

I thought the tour bus “Straight Talk Express” was a brilliant political tactic.

Purely from a strategic point McCain is laying low and waiting for which candidate from the Democrats side he is going to have to fight. He is going to run on a “The war is working and be afraid, be very afraid if we pull out.” He has made his decision as to his course in the political debate. He doesn’t have the offensive battle the Democrats have. He has a defensive battle as to why the war is working. He also has time to craft his message whereas his opponents are too busy fighting for a shot at the parade right now. He can sit back and hope each one of them fucks themselves, through scandal or their own words and then he can pounce.

McCain didn’t have to endure a long and costly campaign to get the nomination from his party. He hasn’t had to fight like Obama and Clinton have had to. Leaving himself open to scrutiny by having to have 24/7 media coverage to get their message across, like Clinton and Obama have.

McCain is an enigma. He was a war hero and pulled a John Wayne in the POW camp. We all know the infamous refusal to be released early when they found out who his dad was. I, like everyone else, have to give him that one. His life had hard ups and downs after that. A divorce, a love affair with the bottle, and a rebuilding of his life. On the surface he looks like the American story or an epic hero tale. The rise, the fall and the redemption. Will the media bring up his involvement in the S&L scandal, will they bring up his voting record, will they bring up the crony committees he has sat on, or any of his record?

The media is a fickle mistress at best and fuck, you can‘t predict what the media will deem important or the American people for that matter.
It will an interesting one to watch play out.

[cadaverdog]

Remember when serving your country and being a hero
like McCain meant something.

[kwame k]

Originally posted by cadaverdog
The election hasn't happened yet.
What if whoever faces McCain says or does something
really stupid before the election.
Or someone gets a hold of something that is so bad
that candidate is totally fucked.
Or suddenly , WMDs are discovered , Bush was right.
Or evidence Sadaam and Bin Laden were in cahoots.
How would the dems recover?

As far as someone doing something stupid, who knows.

WMD's and the rest of your statement have been proven a lie. Not a single person, who is aware, can dispute those facts.

[cadaverdog]

Originally posted by kwame k
As far as someone doing something stupid, who knows.

WMD's and the rest of your statement have been proven a lie. Not a single person, who is aware, can dispute those facts.

I actualy deleted that after I posted because I felt it
wasn't in line with the topic.
I agree on the Sadaam/Bin Laden direct connection.
But Sadaam did have WMDs , when he got rid of
them is debateable.
That they ever existed proven a lie?
They were never found , true.
But they existed at one time , he used chemicals
on some of his own people.
Or are you refering specificaly to nuclear weopons?
No evidence they ever existed , I agree.

[kwame k]

Originally posted by cadaverdog
I actualy deleted that after I posted because I felt it
wasn't in line with the topic.
I agree on the Sadaam/Bin Laden direct connection.
But Sadaam did have WMDs , when he got rid of
them is debateable.

Look up Hans Blix and then we'll talk.

From everything I've read Saddam looked at Al Qaeda as a threat to his power.

[kwame k]

Originally posted by cadaverdog
I actualy deleted that after I posted because I felt it
wasn't in line with the topic.
I agree on the Sadaam/Bin Laden direct connection.
But Sadaam did have WMDs , when he got rid of
them is debateable.
That they ever existed proven a lie?
They were never found , true.
But they existed at one time , he used chemicals
on some of his own people.
Or are you refering specificaly to nuclear weopons?
No evidence they ever existed , I agree.

No, we know about biological weapons that Saddam used during the uprisings and in the Iran War. Fuck, we might of gave them to him. He was our puppet for all of the Iranian War.

[cadaverdog]

Originally posted by kwame k
Look up Hans Blix and then we'll talk.

From everything I've read Saddam looked at Al Qaeda as a threat to his power.

I was agreeing with you on that point .
No evidence exists .
I was not aware that Bush had tried to push the Sadaam
/Bin Laden connection as an excuse to invade Iraq until
I starting researching claims made here.
Bush sold out supporters of the war based on non compliance
when he made those claims.

No matter how I felt in the beginning , Bush is a liar and
has totally fucked up our country,
Once Sadaam was dead even the most loyal war supporters
figured it would end.
No matter what happens now , more people will die.
If we stay , our people die.
If we leave , our supporters will die.
Is there a solution?
Not that I've heard.

[kwame k]

Originally posted by cadaverdog
I was agreeing with you on that point .
No evidence exists .
I was not aware that Bush had tried to push the Sadaam
/Bin Laden connection as an excuse to invade Iraq until
I starting researching claims made here.
Bush sold out supporters of the war based on non compliance
when he made those claims.

No matter how I felt in the beginning , Bush is a liar and
has totally fucked up our country,
Once Sadaam was dead even the most loyal war supporters
figured it would end.
No matter what happens now , more people will die.
If we stay , our people die.
If we leave , our supporters will die.
Is there a solution?
Not that I've heard.

You're getting there C'Dog!!! Check out the link to the PBS special I posted here. Watch that for a good starting place. Nice to see you're looking shit up...........

[hideyoursheep]

Originally posted by cadaverdog
Remember when serving your country and being a hero
like McCain meant something.


WTF?

IT STILL DOES!!!

Or are you referring to those who say they "served" but really didn't b/c
they were privileged and received deferments?





Or just didn't show?
:mad:

[knuckleboner]

Originally posted by cadaverdog
Once Sadaam was dead even the most loyal war supporters
figured it would end.



that's part of the problem.

winning the "war" with "iraq" was easy. our military could defeat their military pretty quickly and painlessly.

the problem has ALWAYS been in the after. when we defeated germany and japan, there were governments that surrendered that we could work with in rebuilding.

in iraq, we never really planned on what would happen if saddam's government collapsed. and we definitely never anticipated the seemingly obvious fact that the three separate, contentious ethnic groups in iraq would not immediately converge into one coherent governing body.


as well as we prepared the actual military campaign, we had a horrible plan for what to do during the reconstruction.


and that should be of concern to people who supported the war...

[Nickdfresh]

Not too mention that some generals were screaming that we needed at least 300,000 or 400,000 soldiers to secure the entire country. Most of the downsizing was on the advice of a ret. lt. colonel and neo con asshole, that thought we could take Iraq with as few as 50,000 troops because the Iraqi population would rise up and follow an embezzler, conman, and Iranian spy, Chalabi. This all fed right into Woloshitz's, Feiths, and Rumsfeld's agenda of securing oil rights and some presumptive, naive belief in hypocritical democracy spreading...

This whole mess is about ideological beliefs over logic, evidence, and historical precedent..Not to mention a fundamental ignorance of the region surpassed only by arrogance...

[cadaverdog]

Originally posted by knuckleboner
that's part of the problem.

winning the "war" with "iraq" was easy. our military could defeat their military pretty quickly and painlessly.

the problem has ALWAYS been in the after. when we defeated germany and japan, there were governments that surrendered that we could work with in rebuilding.

in iraq, we never really planned on what would happen if saddam's government collapsed. and we definitely never anticipated the seemingly obvious fact that the three separate, contentious ethnic groups in iraq would not immediately converge into one coherent governing body.


as well as we prepared the actual military campaign, we had a horrible plan for what to do during the reconstruction.


and that should be of concern to people who supported the war...

Just being in favor of the war didn't make it happen.
And at the time I had other things to think about and didn't
have the time to watch every program or read every article
about why Bush felt it so nessecery to act immediatly.
The truth as I saw it was Sadaam agreed to the inspections
in exchange for us just running him out of Kuwait but
letting him do his own thing in Iraq .
But he kept playing games with the inspectors.
Why? He was either hiding something or just wanted to
look like we couldn't push him around.
Based on that , I agreed , he was a threat.
Even then I figured it would be the same , they would
give up without much of a fight.
They did , but then Bush just didn't want to leave.

Now we are there .
Other than ending the war and sending the troops home
what's the plan?
What about Iraq.?.
Are we just going to bail?
McCain has the only plan , stay there forever.
I don't agree , but he does have a plan.
Other than "It's time to end this senseless war"
what is the fucking plan?
Kerry said he had a plan , but that plan is still
a secret , even today.
WHO HAS A PLAN?

[knuckleboner]

sorry, dude.

i wasn't trying to imply that supporting the war at the outset made it happen.

what i REALLY meant was that the lack of true planning and understanding on the part of those in charge should concern both those of us that always opposed the war, and those of us that supported the war.

[cadaverdog]

Originally posted by knuckleboner
sorry, dude.

i wasn't trying to imply that supporting the war at the outset made it happen.

what i REALLY meant was that the lack of true planning and understanding on the part of those in charge should concern both those of us that always opposed the war, and those of us that supported the war.

There was planning , but it was secret planning.
We were told one thing while another thing was planned.We (the people who supported action against Saddam) were lied to.
The ones that continue to support the war just don't see it.
Bush didn't do any of this for America.
He doesn't give a shit about America.
If Kerry would have actually had some plan , he might have
gotten elected.

[kwame k]

Any plan to leave Iraq is going to need the advice of the Generals in Iraq and the people in charge of the Iraq war. Clinton’s fucking fantasy of withdrawing troops in the first 6 months of Her administration is just Election Rhetoric. She’s saying that because that’s what the American people, she thinks, wants to hear. Obama’s saying something like 16 months, this again is nonsense and rhetoric but Obama is probably closer to a realistic timeline.

Neither one of them has a plan because they do not have access to the key players involved in withdrawing our troops. So they are just guessing and trying to stay a vague as possible. It wouldn’t sound good saying, “I have no idea because I won’t know all the facts until I’m elected.” That’s the truth but doesn‘t play well on the evening news.

If Obama or Clinton win the White House they will have to put committees together and get all the pertinent information to base a decision on. Recommendations will be asked for, feasibility studies will be requested, and a dozen other important players in the war are going to have to be consulted and their recommendations reviewed. Even if Clinton or Obama gave the order to withdraw the next day after they were sworn in it’ll be months before a plan is shaped and enacted.

McCain doesn’t have a plan, to my knowledge. What’s his plan? To take, hold and rebuild. That was Rice’s plan. We don’t have enough troops to do that. All McCain is saying is the war is working, stay the course. Show me what his agenda is for his first year in office. No one’s asking him the tough questions about rebuilding, troop escalation or reduction, and how to get the squabbling tribes to unify under one centralized government.

I don’t listen to McCain much but does anyone have any information on McCain’s strategy?

[cadaverdog]

Originally posted by kwame k

McCain doesn’t have a plan, to my knowledge. What’s his plan? To take, hold and rebuild. That was Rice’s plan. We don’t have enough troops to do that. All McCain is saying is the war is working, stay the course. Show me what his agenda is for his first year in office. No one’s asking him the tough questions about rebuilding, troop escalation or reduction, and how to get the squabbling tribes to unify under one centralized government.

I don’t listen to McCain much but does anyone have any information on McCain’s strategy?

You already have the answer "stay the course" aka "keep
on truckin".

You ain't never going to get these shitbirds to quit killing
each other.
All you can do is make it harder for them to kill us.
Maybe just getting the fuck out is the answer.

[Blackflag]

This thread is deep.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Blackflag
This thread is deep.

:D

Allow me to explain.

Guitar Shark was trying to prove a point by starting an OP-ED thead without commenting on the subject himself.

Thereby hoping I'd either close it, where he can get all indignat that a fellow mod closed a thread of his...

Or that I'd leave it open, thereby allowing him to yell "double standard" or "hypocrite" by not closing it.

But the fact of the matter is, I couldnt care less.

It's the moronic trolls who suffer closing of op-ed spam.

And as I once considered Sharkey a friend here, I dont consider him a moronic troll.

Now you on the other hand...... :D ;)


As to the "depth" of the thread, the subject is valid, but once a thread has been infected by cadaverdouche, it immediately gets on the short bus to the circus.

:gulp:

[LoungeMachine]

dupe

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by cadaverdog


I was not aware that Bush had tried to push the Sadaam
/Bin Laden connection as an excuse to invade Iraq until
I starting researching claims made here.
.

You're welcome.

Yes, you were quite ignorant to the FACTS, as you were too busy being ass pounded in prison to "read up" on the falsifying of intel leading up to the war.

I'm sure the term "Downing St. Memo" still means nothing to you.

If nothing else, at least Nick and I made you a little less ignorant of the facts.

:gulp:

[Guitar Shark]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
:D

Allow me to explain.

Guitar Shark was trying to prove a point by starting an OP-ED thead without commenting on the subject himself.

Thereby hoping I'd either close it, where he can get all indignat that a fellow mod closed a thread of his...

Or that I'd leave it open, thereby allowing him to yell "double standard" or "hypocrite" by not closing it.

But the fact of the matter is, I couldnt care less.

It's the moronic trolls who suffer closing of op-ed spam.

And as I once considered Sharkey a friend here, I dont consider him a moronic troll.

Now you on the other hand...... :D ;)


As to the "depth" of the thread, the subject is valid, but once a thread has been infected by cadaverdouche, it immediately gets on the short bus to the circus.

:gulp:

Actually, although it might not appear that way, truthfully my only purpose in starting this thread was to see whether posting an op-ed without comment could generate a discussion.

"once considered"? lol... I still love YOU, man... :(

;)

[kwame k]

Originally posted by Guitar Shark
Actually, although it might not appear that way, truthfully my only purpose in starting this thread was to see whether posting an op-ed without comment could generate a discussion.

"once considered"? lol... I still love YOU, man... :(

;)

I took the bait and ran with it! I feel so used:(

[knuckleboner]

Originally posted by kwame k
I took the bait and ran with it! I feel so used:(

don't feel so badly. i knowingly took the bait...;)

[kwame k]

Originally posted by knuckleboner
don't feel so badly. i knowingly took the bait...;)

We might have to start a support group :D

[Nickdfresh]

It still is an interesting article...

I don't know if the fact that McCain is giving a nudge and a wink to the press regarding his insincerity when pandering to the authoritarian conservative wing of the party moderates him and puts him in line with my "liberal" views -- or makes me hate him more in what he has become...

The fact that he devotes 90%+ of each speech to "fear," "glorious victory in Iraq!" "the terrorists are going to kill us" banter, and then proclaims he's going to do nothing regarding the Savings and Loan Crisis is telling as to what an old fool he is, and to why perhaps he shouldn't be made leader...

[cadaverdog]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine

As to the "depth" of the thread, the subject is valid, but once a thread has been infected by cadaverdouche, it immediately gets on the short bus to the circus.

:gulp:

Then anybody who replied to anything I contributed is
an idiot?
You just can't accept the fact that it's no longer the
kiss Loungeassholes ass forum anymore.
What an asshole.

[cadaverdog]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Yes, you were quite ignorant to the FACTS, as you were too busy being ass pounded in prison to "read up" on the falsifying of intel leading up to the war.

gulp:

Considering the fact I was paroled before "Operation Desert
Storm" even started what would I have been reading in
prison on this subject?
Something by Nostradamus?
Originally posted by LoungeMachine

If nothing else, at least Nick and I made you a little less ignorant of the facts.

:gulp:

Yeah , you educated me to the fact that you see things the way you
want to see them.
Hans Blix admitted he could not be 100% sure their were no WMDs.
He was pretty sure , but not positive.
Bush said not good enough .
Then when I provided a link concerning Bush's using a Geneva
Convention rule reguarding cease fires and renewing action if
a treaty was not abided by , you ignored it and kept spewing
your version of the facts.
You don't care about facts , you only care about your interpretation
of the facts .

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
It still is an interesting article...

I don't know if the fact that McCain is giving a nudge and a wink to the press regarding his insincerity when pandering to the authoritarian conservative wing of the party moderates him and puts him in line with my "liberal" views -- or makes me hate him more in what he has become...

The fact that he devotes 90%+ of each speech to "fear," "glorious victory in Iraq!" "the terrorists are going to kill us" banter, and then proclaims he's going to do nothing regarding the Savings and Loan Crisis is telling as to what an old fool he is, and to why perhaps he shouldn't be made leader...

Exactly.

:gulp:

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
It still is an interesting article...

I don't know if the fact that McCain is giving a nudge and a wink to the press regarding his insincerity when pandering to the authoritarian conservative wing of the party moderates him and puts him in line with my "liberal" views -- or makes me hate him more in what he has become...

The fact that he devotes 90%+ of each speech to "fear," "glorious victory in Iraq!" "the terrorists are going to kill us" banter, and then proclaims he's going to do nothing regarding the Savings and Loan Crisis is telling as to what an old fool he is, and to why perhaps he shouldn't be made leader...

Exactly.

:gulp:

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by cadaverdog
Then anybody who replied to anything I contributed is
an idiot?


.

Let me know when you actually contribute something, and I'll let you know...


Originally posted by cadaverdog
You just can't accept the fact that it's no longer the
kiss Loungeassholes ass forum anymore.


No longer?

What the fuck are you bleating about now, moron?

It's never been that way, dumbass. You only thought so because everyone else on this site piles on your ignorant ass too.

I've always been the asshole of the forum. That's why Pojo modded me.

He told me to stir the pot, take no shit, and hold the feet to the fire of morons like you.

Like FORD before me, I am the lightning rod that attracts the trolls ire on the Right.

And why else would you constantly be whining about me?

You can't even go to a new site without your first posts being about ME.

:D


Face it Clem, you'll always be the ignorant clown in here.

But that's okay. Every village needs an Idiot.

:gulp:

[kwame k]

http://i27.tinypic.com/jjp7gx.jpg
:)

[kwame k]

This one is better

http://i26.tinypic.com/2gw9c77.jpg

[LoungeMachine]

LMMFAO!

rolling....

:gulp:

:D

[cadaverdog]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Let me know when you actually contribute something, and I'll let you know...



No longer?

What the fuck are you bleating about now, moron?

It's never been that way, dumbass. You only thought so because everyone else on this site piles on your ignorant ass too.

I've always been the asshole of the forum. That's why Pojo modded me.

He told me to stir the pot, take no shit, and hold the feet to the fire of morons like you.

Like FORD before me, I am the lightning rod that attracts the trolls ire on the Right.

And why else would you constantly be whining about me?

You can't even go to a new site without your first posts being about ME.

:D


Face it Clem, you'll always be the ignorant clown in here.

But that's okay. Every village needs an Idiot.

:gulp:

Look around asshole ,who do you see?
Only yourself.
Pissing and moaning as usuall.
You may think I'm an idiot , but EVERYONE knows you're
an asshole.
Even you.
And you're proud of it.
I don't care who picked you.
People make misstakes.
You're living proof your parents made a HUGE one.
Fucking Jerk.

[Nitro Express]

Savings and Loan Crisis? You mean mortgage lender and investment bank failure crisis. The govt. sollution to this is spend our tax dollars to bail out a few rich Wall Street managers and let the average guy take the fall, then print more money. As far as Iraq goes, we will barrow money from China to pay for our war.

[Nitro Express]

Whenever the govt. tries to fix the economy it costs way more than if we would have just let the banks fail. What is lost because of inflation due to an artificial influx of cash if far more than what is lost is a few bank failures.

[Nitro Express]

I got into a huge argument with a retired US Army Col. the other day over Iraq. I said we went in with no object and we are getting people killed for nothing so let's claim victory and pull out. This old Army Col. gave me both barrels that the whole middle east would collapse and I said, hell, it's collapsing now and it will collapse with us still there. We are just bogged down in something that nobody has the balls to stick their neck out and get us the hell out.

[cadaverdog]

Originally posted by Nitro Express
I got into a huge argument with a retired US Army Col. the other day over Iraq. I said we went in with no object and we are getting people killed for nothing so let's claim victory and pull out. This old Army Col. gave me both barrels that the whole middle east would collapse and I said, hell, it's collapsing now and it will collapse with us still there. We are just bogged down in something that nobody has the balls to stick their neck out and get us the hell out.

I agree 100%
Any plan ivolving the UN is probably out of the question.
What other countries would have those balls?
Or in reality be that stupid?
There will NEVER be peace in the middle east.
That's not what they want.

[kwame k]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
LMMFAO!

rolling....

:gulp:

:D

:D