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scamper
04-01-2008, 09:59 AM
House Votes to End Big Oil's Tax Breaks
Despite Veto Threat, Bill to Boost Renewable Energy Is Sent to Senate


The House of Representatives brushed aside threats of a White House veto yesterday and voted 236 to 182 in favor of an $18 billion tax package that would rescind a tax break for the five biggest oil companies and use the revenue to boost incentives for wind and solar energy and energy efficiency.
This Story


The measure now heads to the Senate, where Democrats face a challenge in getting enough support to bring the bill to a vote. This is the fourth time in the past year that Democrats have tried to get the package adopted.

The Bush administration, Republican lawmakers and big oil companies condemned the bill, which they said would raise fuel prices for consumers, discourage oil and gas exploration in the United States and unfairly discriminate against a single industry while other manufacturers continue to enjoy tax breaks.

But hours after crude oil hit a new high of $102 a barrel on the New York Mercantile Exchange, most lawmakers said they saw no reason why the oil industry couldn't pay an additional $1.8 billion a year in taxes over the next 10 years.

"We don't think it's asking too much to ask them to assist in a partnership to help find out whether there's a better way to meet our energy needs," said Charles B. Rangel (D-N.Y.), chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee. He called the money raised from the oil giants "grains of sand on the beach."

Supporters of the measure noted that rescinded tax breaks would amount to less than 2 percent of the profits of the five biggest oil companies. Even if the companies were to pass along that entire cost to gasoline consumers, it would amount to about a penny a gallon.

Rep. Rahm Emmanuel (D-Ill.) said "Americans are being asked to pay twice" -- once at the gasoline pump and then through tax subsidies to the oil companies.

However, Rep. Kevin Brady (R-Tex.) said that "politicians are shooting at Big Oil but hitting Americans" in their wallets.

Supporters of the measure also said that by extending tax breaks for wind and solar energy, the bill would prevent the loss of jobs linked to those fast-growing industries. Solar and wind energy companies have been arguing that investment would slow sharply without an extension of investment and production tax breaks for their industries, which are set to expire at the end of the year. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) issued a statement saying that 116,000 jobs were at risk.

Republicans mostly supported the bill's renewable energy provisions, worth about $8 billion.

But at the heart of the floor debate was a provision to exclude oil and gas companies from a tax break given to U.S. manufacturers in 2004. Two years earlier, Congress had given a subsidy to manufacturers -- not including the oil industry. When the World Trade Organization ruled that the subsidy was a violation of trade accords, Congress instead came up with a provision that effectively lowered the corporate tax rate from 35 percent to 32 percent over a number of years. In addition to the traditional manufacturers that would have received the earlier subsidy, the new tax break was extended to Hollywood studios, architectural and engineering firms, and oil and gas companies.

The current bill raises $13 billion by eliminating that manufacturers' tax break for the five biggest oil companies: Exxon Mobil, Chevron, ConocoPhillips, BP and Royal Dutch Shell.

"The administration must strongly oppose" the legislation, the Office of Management and Budget said Tuesday, "because the bill would use the tax code to target tax increases on a specific industry in a way that will lead to higher energy costs to U.S. consumers and businesses." The OMB said that if the bill were sent to the president in its current form, "his senior advisors would recommend that he veto the bill."

If adopted and signed into law, the legislation would also raise about $3 billion by altering the treatment of foreign tax credits for oil companies. It would close the so-called Hummer loophole that gives tax breaks on sports-utility vehicles bought for business purposes.

To spur renewable energy, the bill would extend the production tax credit, now 2 cents a kilowatt hour, for wind for three years; after 2009, tax credits would not be able to exceed 35 percent of the value of a wind project.

The 30 percent investment tax credit for solar projects would be extended eight years for commercial customers and six years for residential customers. The current maximum credit for homeowners would be doubled to $4,000.

The legislation would also channel $2 billion into clean renewable energy bonds, which would help finance renewable energy investments by the country's politically powerful rural electric cooperatives. The bill would also expand tax credits for the installation of pumps for motor fuel with 85 percent ethanol and for purchases of plug-in hybrid vehicles.

The Bush administration called the clean energy bonds "highly inefficient" and said they could cost the federal government money outside the 10-year budget window.

scamper
04-01-2008, 10:05 AM
Anyone who votes against this should fry.

LoungeMachine
04-01-2008, 10:33 AM
I started a thread about this some time ago...

crickets chirped.

Why we subsidize big oil is beyond comprehension.

:gulp:

WACF
04-01-2008, 12:17 PM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine
I started a thread about this some time ago...

crickets chirped.

Why we subsidize big oil is beyond comprehension.

:gulp:


It started as a boost to invest in the oild field and to explore for more deposits.

The oil patch here needed federal money to make it more viable to go after the thicker deeper oil since costs were high and the price per barrel was much lower.

With prices(profits) where they are now it is just unfathomable that the subsidies continue...on both sides of the border.

kwame k
04-01-2008, 12:18 PM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine
I started a thread about this some time ago...

crickets chirped.

Why we subsidize big oil is beyond comprehension.

:gulp:

Lounge,

I’m sick of your sanctimonious, self-righteous bullshit.

You started a thread and no one paid attention!!!

Fuck-off asshole!!!!

knuckleboner
04-01-2008, 12:30 PM
Originally posted by scamper

But hours after crude oil hit a new high of $102 a barrel on the New York Mercantile Exchange,

heh heh. outdated article. oil's since hit a high of $110...

Little Texan
04-01-2008, 01:49 PM
Originally posted by scamper

The Bush administration, Republican lawmakers and big oil companies condemned the bill,

Wow, now that's a shock! The three entities that benefit the most $$$ from sky high oil prices are opposed to ending tax breaks for oil companies! :rolleyes: January 2009 can't come soon enough to get these big oil cocksuckers out of the White House!

scamper
04-01-2008, 03:59 PM
Lawmakers bemoan high gas prices, big oil profits
By Steve Gelsi, MarketWatch
Last update: 2:58 p.m. EDT April 1, 2008

NEW YORK (MarketWatch) -- Lawmakers on Tuesday bemoaned the billions in profits by big oil companies, as their constituents complain about record costs for gasoline, diesel and heating oil in a rare hearing with executives from the five largest oil and gas companies.
Rep. Ed Markey, D-Mass., called for major oil companies to support a measure to give up $18 billion in tax cuts and channel the money into renewable energy. The measure passed the House earlier this year but later died in the Senate.
"Americans shouldn't have to break the bank to fill the tank," Markey said in his prepared remarks at the Select Committee on Energy Independence and Global Warming in Washington, D.C. "On April Fool's Day, the biggest joke of all is being played on American families by Big Oil."
Markey said the five largest oil companies rang up $123 billion in profits and used $50 billion to repurchase stock.
Stephen Simon, senior vice president of Exxon Mobil Corp. said raising taxes on oil and gas companies will discourage investment to increase supply. He said oil should be about $50 to $55 a barrel, but it's now $100 or more because of the weaker dollar, geopolitical risk and speculation.
"We depend on high earnings over the up-cycle to sustain investment over the long term, including the down-cycles," Simon said in his prepared remarks. "Our worldwide profits have grown, but taxes have grown even more."
He said Exxon Mobil's tax rate is about 44%, compared to 30% for other large U.S. corporations.
Markey and other law makers urged Exxon Mobil to invest more in alternative energy, beyond its $100 million for research at Stanford University.
"Does the oil fairy have to show up? ... When are you going to put some real money into it?" said Jay Inslee of Washington.
Markey said Exxon should commit 10% of its profits into renewable energy, "so America has a strategy to fight its dependence on foreign oil."
"We continue to look at that area," Simon said. "We've studied all forms (of alternative energy) and the current technology just doesn't have an impact of on this challenge that we're trying to meet."
Exxon concluded that most of the nation's energy needs will continue to be supplied by fossil fuels through at least 2030.
Higher and getting higher
The Energy Information Administration said late Monday that the average U.S. retail price for gasoline set a new record of $3.29 a gallon, up 3% from the week-ago level and a 58% rise from a year ago.
California leads the U.S. with an average price of about $3.61 a gallon, up 0.6% from the prior week. Gas was cheapest in the Gulf Coast region, where it cost $3.206 a gallon.
In energy trading, crude-oil futures rose 57 cents to $102.15 a barrel on the New York Mercantile Exchange. See full story.
Joining Simon from the oil and gas industry were John Hofmeister, president of Shell Oil Company Robert Malone, chairman and president of BP America Inc. Peter Robertson, vice chairman of Chevron and John Lowe, executive vice president for ConocoPhillips.
The executives said they've been investing in wind, geothermal, solar and biofuel operation, while also making expenditures in oil and gas exploration in the Gulf of Mexico and in Canadian oil sands.
"We struggle for access in which we can have appropriate investments," Hofmeister said.
BP's Malone said the company is investing in wind and biofuel while expanding its exploration.
"Today, we can't change the way the U.S. relies on oil from foreign countries, but we can move toward greater energy security," he said. "BP America is working to expand us energy supply."
But the executives faced rough words from the legislators.
"Your approval ratings are below ours," Rep. John Hall of New York said after meeting with constituents.
"People are going broke, and they want to know why these people are making such a large profit, and they wonder why can't the money be channeled into renewable fuels and creating green-collar jobs," said Rep. Hilda Solis of California. "I'm asking you to step up to the plate, help us look for other alternatives."
Rep. Herseth Sandlin of South Dakota said gasoline prices have been shocking for her constituents.
"One solution for the oil addiction is increased production of ethanol if we put the proper policies in place," she said. She suggested curbing tax subsidies for oil and gas companies when prices are high, and letting them kick in again when prices are low.

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/lawmakers-complain-about-high-gas/story.aspx?guid=%7B75DD32B4-1727-4A01-87FB-F66175BBE28B%7D

cadaverdog
04-01-2008, 05:46 PM
Any increase in taxes as well as any decrease in subsidies
will only affect the consumer.
We will always get the shitty end of the stick.

LoungeMachine
04-01-2008, 10:31 PM
Originally posted by kwame k
Lounge,

I’m sick of your sanctimonious, self-righteous bullshit.

You started a thread and no one paid attention!!!

Fuck-off asshole!!!!

:D

kwame k
04-01-2008, 10:44 PM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine
:D

Pecker Nuts couldn’t bait you……. Thanks for ruining my April Fools Day!!

Ah fuck it!!!

http://i25.tinypic.com/33vk87b.jpg

LoungeMachine
04-01-2008, 10:52 PM
Fucking drummers....

Gotta love 'em.


Q: How do hyou get a drummer off your front porch?




























A: Pay him for the pizza.

:D


:gulp:

kwame k
04-01-2008, 11:02 PM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Fucking drummers....

Gotta love 'em.


Q: How do hyou get a drummer off your front porch?
























A: Pay him for the pizza.

:D


:gulp:

Oh, you had to go there!!!!

How many drummers does it take to change a lightbulb?

Five: One to screw the bulb in, and four to talk about how much better
Neil Peart coulda done it.

LoungeMachine
04-01-2008, 11:06 PM
Show me a drummer who has the intelligence to screw in a lightbulb first....

:gulp:

kwame k
04-01-2008, 11:17 PM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Show me a drummer who has the intelligence to screw in a lightbulb first....

:gulp:
touche'
Ouch!!!!!

Show me a band that can groove without one..........

You must be a guitar player!!

LoungeMachine
04-01-2008, 11:30 PM
Q: What do you call a Drummer who just got dumped by his girlfriend?





























A: Homeless :D


I'll be here all week.... Try the Veal

:gulp:

LoungeMachine
04-01-2008, 11:34 PM
Originally posted by kwame k

You must be a guitar player!!

What gave it away?

My sharp wit, or my scathing politcal insights?

;)

:gulp:





Q: How can you tell a Drummer is at your door?


















A: The knocking keeps speeding up. :D

:gulp:

Don't forget to tip your waitress...

LoungeMachine
04-01-2008, 11:37 PM
Q: What do you call those people who constantly hang around musicians looking for attention?




















A: Yep, you guessed it. Drummers :D



:gulp:

kwame k
04-01-2008, 11:38 PM
How many drummers does it take to change a light bulb?

None, they have a machine to do that now.

This is why I only do one show a night!!!

LoungeMachine
04-01-2008, 11:42 PM
LMAO


At least you have a sense of humor....

We can always work on your sense of time. :D

:gulp:

kwame k
04-01-2008, 11:47 PM
My sense of timing is perfect, my sense of smell well………….

How many lead guitarists does it take to change a light bulb?


None--they just steal somebody else's light.

kwame k
04-01-2008, 11:50 PM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine
What gave it away?

My sharp wit, or my scathing politcal insights?

;)

:gulp:


No, your booze, drenched, breath!!!

LoungeMachine
04-01-2008, 11:51 PM
We just hold the lightbulb.....

The world revolves around us.



*takes bow, exits stage left*

:D

:gulp:

kwame k
04-02-2008, 12:02 AM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine
We just hold the lightbulb.....

The world revolves around us.



*takes bow, exits stage left*

:D

:gulp:

Is this you dude??
<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/NbasTydyPGg&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/NbasTydyPGg&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

scamper
04-02-2008, 09:05 AM
Quit beating my thread to death.......

LoungeMachine
04-02-2008, 10:21 AM
Originally posted by scamper
Quit beating my thread to death.......

I believe it died of natural causes....

:gulp:

kwame k
04-02-2008, 07:18 PM
Originally posted by scamper
Quit beating my thread to death.......

Sorry Scamper,

No Decorum in the Forum ...........

scamper
04-03-2008, 09:23 AM
Originally posted by kwame k
Sorry Scamper,

No Decorum in the Forum ...........

Actually it was my weak attempt at a joke, 'beating' 'drummers'.......................then I killed a guy with a sickle............

LoungeMachine
04-03-2008, 10:18 AM
Drummers are a little slow, scamp...

Speak slowly and with small words, and they'll eventually understand you.


Q: What doe s a Drummer say right before he's kick out of a band?


A: Hey, guys..... I wrote this song, and....


:gulp:

kwame k
04-04-2008, 09:03 AM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Drummers are a little slow, scamp...

Speak slowly and with small words, and they'll eventually understand you.


Q: What doe s a Drummer say right before he's kick out of a band?


A: Hey, guys..... I wrote this song, and....


:gulp:

What do you mean, Lounge? Are you saying I'm slow?
Speak clearer...

What's the best way to confuse a drummer?



Put a sheet of music in front of him.

LoungeMachine
04-04-2008, 09:51 AM
Q: How do you know a drummer is walking behind you?

A: You can hear his knuckles dragging on the sidewalk.


:gulp:


And on that note, I think we can return to bashing Big Oil :D

Lqskdiver
04-04-2008, 04:06 PM
Originally posted by kwame k
touche'
Ouch!!!!!

Show me a band that can groove without one..........

You must be a guitar player!!

Actually, he's a bass player.

That's why we tolerate the fag...

me<----drummer/singer/keyboardist/ukalaili player

And no, I've never embarked on the musical study of the skin flute...

kwame k
04-05-2008, 11:01 AM
Originally posted by Lqskdiver
Actually, he's a bass player.

That's why we tolerate the fag...

me<----drummer/singer/keyboardist/ukalaili player

And no, I've never embarked on the musical study of the skin flute...

So he’s a bass player LOL……..
That explains a lot!
Bass Player’s are lower on the food chain than Us Drummers…………

No skin flute? What aboot Hand Organ? :D