Expectations

[Big Train]

President Elect fans,

Bush's term has come to an end. Hope reigns supreme. Tingles are going up legs of entire networks. Puff pieces and rock concerts abound.

But what of the actual substance?

Since your candidate is now to be in power, let's get to specifics. He has four years (let's not talk about a second term). What, exactly and specifically, are your expectations for his term? Let's not talk side philosophical arguments about following the rules vs. Bush's term. Just goals.

I'm not trying to bash (I'll give it a solid four months before I bash). I just want to know what you realistically expect from him in the next four years. Is the domestic agenda more important than foreign affairs? The war first?

Curious to hear your thoughts on the eve of his taking the reigns.

[hideyoursheep]

Since your candidate is now to be in power, let's get to specifics. He has four years (let's not talk about a second term). What, exactly and specifically, are your expectations for his term?
That he WORKS!?


I'm not trying to bash (I'll give it a solid four months before I bash). How long did you give W?


I just want to know what you realistically expect from him in the next four years. Is the domestic agenda more important than foreign affairs? The war first? I think he's a man who can multi-task.
Provided congress don't start the "buisness as usual" routine, he could get something done.


I may not even give him 4 months. Depends on what and how it gets done.

[Big Train]

What exactly is "get something done". That is what I'm asking.

[hideyoursheep]

What exactly is "get something done". That is what I'm asking.

Well ,fuck man.... name someting. There's a goddamned laundry list of shit that needs undicked! You think he can turn the world around after 100 days?

I don't.

[LoungeMachine]

What exactly is "get something done". That is what I'm asking.

More like getting the last 8 years UNDONE

:gulp:

[Big Train]

I'm sure getting a lot of checked swings on a very easy pitch.

Exactly and specifically, to you who voted for him, do you expect him to do in the next four years ? I'm sure you voted for him to do specific things right? I would hope so anyway.

I said I wouldn't bash him for 100 days, not that I expect anything to get done in that time. I just think it will be obvious how things are progressing or not after 100 days. I WOULD expect some movement given he has the nation and Congress just spellbound with the hype. I'd also hope that Maddow, Olbermann and Stewart will get a new schtick in the first 100 days too, but I hold out little hope for that.

All I'm getting is general statements to a pretty specific question.

[hideyoursheep]

I'm sure getting a lot of checked swings on a very easy pitch.

Exactly and specifically, to you who voted for him, do you expect him to do in the next four years ? I'm sure you voted for him to do specific things right? I would hope so anyway.

I said I wouldn't bash him for 100 days, not that I expect anything to get done in that time. I just think it will be obvious how things are progressing or not after 100 days. I WOULD expect some movement given he has the nation and Congress just spellbound with the hype. I'd also hope that Maddow, Olbermann and Stewart will get a new schtick in the first 100 days too, but I hold out little hope for that.

All I'm getting is general statements to a pretty specific question.
actually, your question is pretty general.

I, hideyoursheep, expect Barack Obama to be a competent president, with thoughtful solutions to very difficult problems left behind by an incompetent fuck!

The End.

[Andy Taylor]

I don't think O'bubba even cares. He may clean up some of Bush's mess, but he's in no hurry to scale back the wars - he's taking them forward. What will most stick in my mind is that democrat debate between him Kucinich and Gravel, Barack who are we going to nuke? 'I don't want to nuke anyone ... right now.'

[Va Beach VH Fan]

Yeah, all that stuff for two years straight about removing a combat division per month until the troops are gone from Iraq in 16 months was obvious merely a campaign stunt...

Afghanistan NEEDS taken forward, diverting the majority of the troops from there to Iraq has allowed the Taliban to regroup....

You remember the Taliban, you know, the ones who've sheltered Bin Laden, you remember, the one that Bush failed to capture....

[Andy Taylor]

I believe they also spoke of a 'residual force' which means no complete removal of troops.

I remember the taliban well, they're the former allies of the US. When neccessary a friend can become a foe. They always need a boogeyman and that's what Osama is. When they need to they can find the president of Iraq literally in a hole in the ground. But despite EIGHT years of bombarding Afghanistan and their advanced intelligence there's no trace of him. Just the occasional video clip and claims of responsibility for bomb attacks atleast one of which was traced back to Texas. I haven't seen a mention of this for a long time but since the days of Clinton they've had plans to run an oil pipeline through Afghanistan for which reason it needs to be stable...

Obama is just a stooge and there's evidence that he and Hillary snuck off to a Bilderberg meeting right in the middle of his campaign like all US presidents have atleast since Nixon. No real 'change' candidate is going to be allowed to become president soon. There's a reason O'bubba got more air time almost right from the start instead of Kucinich or Ron Paul. The networks are sponsored by defence contractors and other big wigs so exactly who are they going to allow on their media. But we will all keep tuning into Faux news and CNeNemy just the same...

[Big Train]

Jeez Sheep, is it really that hard?

I was expecting responses like:

I expect him to wind down the war
I expect him to resolve our budget crisis
I expect him to create green jobs

You know specific goals, as stated in my original post.

I'm guessing nobody wants to back him and say that they expect him to do what his hype is saying he will.

[LoungeMachine]

Meh, you're mistaking posting exhaustion with apathy or ignorance.

Frankly spent on it, and kinda sitting back and enjoying the moment of Bush leaving...

There'll be plenty of time to chide and deride the broken campaign promises, and to lower expectations.

I'm just glad the war criminals are being shown the door.

Talk to me after this week, then we'll throw down.

:gulp:

[sadaist]

He will attempt to close Guantanamo Prison. Then announce a time frame for closing it rather than any immediate actions.

The remaining 350+ Billion of bailout package will be disbursed.

He will have many face-to-face meetings with other world leaders in attempts at rebuilding American goodwill and partnerships. I also think Hillary will be out of the country doing these things the first 100 days almost as much as she'll be here.

Possibly demand some type of extended forgiveness by mortgage holders and home owners that are delinquent in monthly payments.(beyond what has already been requested)

Possible that he extends UI benefits to ease the current unemployment situation.

[Guitar Shark]

I expect him to take less vacation than W.

[Va Beach VH Fan]

I believe they also spoke of a 'residual force' which means no complete removal of troops.

But despite EIGHT years of bombarding Afghanistan and their advanced intelligence there's no trace of him.

Yes, you're correct, "advisors" or whatever the terminology their going to use... So, not totally out, but very close....

[ Of course, the first ones to Vietnam were "advisors", look where that ended up... ]

There's no trace of Bin Laden now because they had the fucker trapped in Tora Bora in Dec. 2001, but then the idiot Texan outsourced capturing him to the Afghan warlords, who were probably bribed to let him go...

Of course, then a few years later, Bush didn't say a word when Pakistan allowed a safe haven for Al-Queda along the border, which is probably where Bin Laden is holed up now....

[LoungeMachine]

I expect him to take less vacation than W.

:lol:

Imagine the damage Chimpy COULD have inflicted had he not been on vacation 40% of the time.....

slacker.

:gulp:

[binnie]

As a non-American, I can only tell you what I would like to see:

1) Close Guantanamo

2) Begin a dialogue with major middle Eastern powers to rebuild good-will there and to lessen suspcion of the west. Iran would be a good place to start, although it will be a painfully slow process.

3) Implement regulations to stop banks blatently lending money to people who have next to no chance of paying it back.

4) Work together with European leaders to formulate a serious environmental policy - the emphasis should be one working WITH industry, rather than threatening them. How about offering incentives to home-owners and industries to sign up for solar power or other renewable sources of energy?

[Va Beach VH Fan]

As a non-American, I can only tell you what I would like to see:

1) Close Guantanamo

Again, I have to correct that....

They will never close the entire BASE at GITMO, it's too strategically important....

I know you meant to close the PRISON, I'm just touchy like that....

[LoungeMachine]

I never have understood how we have managed to keep Gitmo all this time.

We embargo and try to kill Castro, but he keeps leasing to us?

VA?

[Va Beach VH Fan]

I'll look it up soon, but I believe it's a permanent lease for $1 per year, which the US pays but Cuba never cashes.... I believe it started in the first Roosevelt administration...

[Andy Taylor]

Yes, you're correct, "advisors" or whatever the terminology their going to use... So, not totally out, but very close....

[ Of course, the first ones to Vietnam were "advisors", look where that ended up... ]

There's no trace of Bin Laden now because they had the fucker trapped in Tora Bora in Dec. 2001, but then the idiot Texan outsourced capturing him to the Afghan warlords, who were probably bribed to let him go...

Of course, then a few years later, Bush didn't say a word when Pakistan allowed a safe haven for Al-Queda along the border, which is probably where Bin Laden is holed up now....



I bet Laden has been dead many years now.

[LoungeMachine]

I bet Laden has been dead many years now.

Beg to differ.

He serves more purpose to his "followers" as a dead martyr, than he does as a recluse hiding in a cave somewhere.

Were he dead, they'd be shouting it from the cave tops.

:gulp:

[FORD]

Beg to differ.

He serves more purpose to his "followers" as a dead martyr, than he does as a recluse hiding in a cave somewhere.

Were he dead, they'd be shouting it from the cave tops.

:gulp:

Maybe they have shouted it? How would we know? The whore media would just claim they were yelling "Death to America" again.:gulp:

Besides, Benazir Bhutto already told us the truth....

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/4U9QbTbgohU&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/4U9QbTbgohU&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

.... and then ate a Musharraff thug bullet for doing so. :(

[Andy Taylor]

Beg to differ.

He serves more purpose to his "followers" as a dead martyr, than he does as a recluse hiding in a cave somewhere.

Were he dead, they'd be shouting it from the cave tops.

:gulp:


Saying that these people love their 'martyrs' is mere propaganda that has been constantly repeated in the media till it stuck.

Normally I would say there would be an outcry. In this case, who knows - maybe his followers are already in Gitmo, maybe they're dead too? Maybe after his treatment at the American hospital in Dubai he was given a safe haven somewhere in the west?

[Andy Taylor]

Maybe they have shouted it? How would we know? The whore media would just claim they were yelling "Death to America" again.:gulp:

Besides, Benazir Bhutto already told us the truth....

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/4U9QbTbgohU&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/4U9QbTbgohU&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

.... and then ate a Musharraff thug bullet for doing so. :(


the fuck??

[Dr. Love]

I don't think O'bubba even cares. He may clean up some of Bush's mess, but he's in no hurry to scale back the wars - he's taking them forward. What will most stick in my mind is that democrat debate between him Kucinich and Gravel, Barack who are we going to nuke? 'I don't want to nuke anyone ... right now.'

http://www.mindflame.net/images/SiskoAnimated.gif

[Blackflag]

I'm sure getting a lot of checked swings on a very easy pitch.

Forget it, man...you're trying to get blood from a stone.

. . .

For a start, I'd like to see him withdraw troops everywhere immediately, lower taxes across the board...

[Blackflag]

the fuck??

Ha ha...welcome to the forum. :rofl:

[binnie]

Again, I have to correct that....

They will never close the entire BASE at GITMO, it's too strategically important....

I know you meant to close the PRISON, I'm just touchy like that....

Yup, that's my bad. Doh!

[hideyoursheep]

Jeez Sheep, is it really that hard?

I was expecting responses like:

I expect him to wind down the war
I expect him to resolve our budget crisis
I expect him to create green jobs

You know specific goals, as stated in my original post.

I'm guessing nobody wants to back him and say that they expect him to do what his hype is saying he will.

I, hideyoursheep, expect him to listen to his military advisors and generals. ALWAYS. If a select few must stay behind in Iraq and help train ISF or augment any action against extremists that are to be carried out or initiated by the Iraqi govt, then it shall be, because we created that mess, and it won't clean itself up. There's no winning against an insurgency in our case, and as long as Iraqi fighting against other less desirable Iraqis or whatever they might be, as long as we leave them with a manageable situation, (or at least their definition of it) we should honor their request to either stay or go......

Then pile onto Afghanistan relentlessly.
And fuck the Pakis if they wanna die beside OBL.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5ihmILMXDSyifnMSZu2NK3vNWSazgD95OFJKG0

In addition, I expect the new president to strictly enforce regs on the ignorant so-called "financial expert" lenders, that the treasury get every dime they lent back in spades. Watch the movie, "Maxed Out".. it will explain what the banks don't want to admit, even now, with their hands out.

In closing, I don't expect any new green jobs to put even a small dent in the job market the next four years by itself. When the arrogant, selfish era of making yourself and your shareholders happy this quarter comes to and end, then maybe. Making as much as you can by gutting a company and moving it to where there is a cheap labor force with no quality of life to speak of, no pesky little things like labor laws, no EPA or OSHA to slow you down.....gives you NO ONE TO SELL YOUR PRODUCT TO IN THE LONG RUN.
I mean, who has a job with money to buy your shit? You fucked them all, remember? Then wonder why you only sell 30% of your inventory. I mean, you still have money, right? :rolleyes:

Maybe if enough CEO's are penalized for doing that type of shit we can cover some of the deficit with the fines and taxes.

That's what I expect.

Will I get it?

Doubt it.

Are we on the right track?

I think so.

Ask me again Wednesday. I'll have changed my mind by then and went from a Traditional Dem to an Anarchist.

Wish me luck!

[hideyoursheep]

Forget it, man...you're trying to get blood from a stone.

. . .

For a start, I'd like to see him withdraw troops everywhere immediately, lower taxes across the board...

WTF is it with you and taxes? are you unable to eat? Do you have a home? Can you pay your bills? Why do YOU always cry about taxes?


I want to know.

[LoungeMachine]

He also doesnt use the military, roads, or any other federal infrastructure.....

:gulp:

[sadaist]

WTF is it with you and taxes? are you unable to eat? Do you have a home? Can you pay your bills? Why do YOU always cry about taxes?


I want to know.


Maybe it's because he's always paying them. Give him a hiatus from paying taxes and you'll get your break from the complaints.

[Va Beach VH Fan]

I never have understood how we have managed to keep Gitmo all this time.

We embargo and try to kill Castro, but he keeps leasing to us?

VA?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_Bay_Naval_Base

During the Spanish-American War, the U.S. fleet attacking Santiago retreated to Guantánamo's excellent harbor to ride out the summer hurricane season of 1898. The Marines landed with naval support, requiring Cuban scouts to push off Spanish resistance that increased as they moved inland. This area became the location of U.S. Naval Station Guantanamo Bay, which covers about 45 square miles (116 km²) and is sometimes abbreviated as GTMO or "Gitmo".

By the war's end, the U.S. government had obtained control of all of Cuba from Spain. A perpetual lease for the area around Guantánamo Bay was offered February 23, 1903, from Tomás Estrada Palma, an American citizen, who became the first President of Cuba. The Cuban-American Treaty gave, among other things, the Republic of Cuba ultimate sovereignty over Guantánamo Bay while granting the United States "complete jurisdiction and control" of the area for coaling and naval stations.

A 1934 treaty reaffirming the lease granted Cuba and her trading partners free access through the bay, modified the lease payment from $2,000 in U.S. gold coins per year, to the 1934 equivalent value of $3,086.36 in U.S. dollars, and made the lease permanent unless both governments agreed to break it or the U.S. abandoned the base property. Since the Cuban Revolution, the government under Fidel Castro has cashed only one of the rent checks from the US government. The Cuban government maintains this was only done because of "confusion" in the heady early days of the leftist revolution, while the US government maintains that the cashing constitutes an official validation of the treaty. The remaining uncashed checks made out to "Treasurer General of the Republic" (A position that has ceased to exist after the revolution) are kept in Castro's office stuffed into a desk drawer.

[Andy Taylor]

Ha ha...welcome to the forum. :rofl:

No, I was going 'the fuck' at Benazir's comments. Surprised me.

[Andy Taylor]

http://www.mindflame.net/images/SiskoAnimated.gif


Oh?

..

[hideyoursheep]

Maybe it's because he's always paying them. Give him a hiatus from paying taxes and you'll get your break from the complaints.

:lol:

Such bs...he's the only one who pays taxes. I look at my earnings statements and there's taxes taken out. I fill out my 1040 and the IRS says I owe some money.

So fucking PAY IT!

If I think you or BlackFlag might lose some weight over paying taxes, you can come to my house for dinner.

BlackFlag has to eat outside. :cool:


Seriously, the paying my share doesn't get me steamed, it's the waste of what I give them that I quietly steam about everyday.

[hideyoursheep]

Maybe they have shouted it? How would we know? The whore media would just claim they were yelling "Death to America" again.:gulp:

Besides, Benazir Bhutto already told us the truth....

.... and then ate a Musharraff thug bullet for doing so. :(

I don't want to hear Bin Laden dead, I want to see Bin Laden Dead.

(I think that's a quote from a western)

[LoungeMachine]

Day in the Life of BLACK FLAG


by John Gray

BLACK FLAG gets up at 6:00am to prepare his morning coffee. He fills his pot full of good clean drinking water because some liberal fought for minimum water quality standards. He takes his daily medication with his first swallow of coffee. His medications are safe to take because some liberal fought to insure their safety and work as advertised.

All but $10.00 of his medications are paid for by his employers medical plan because some liberal union workers fought their employers for paid medical insurance, now BLACK FLAG gets it too. He prepares his morning breakfast, bacon and eggs this day. BLACK FLAG'S bacon is safe to eat because some liberal fought for laws to regulate the meat packing industry.

BLACK FLAG takes his morning shower reaching for his shampoo; His bottle is properly labeled with every ingredient and the amount of its contents because some liberal fought for his right to know what he was putting on his body and how much it contained. BLACK FLAG dresses, walks outside and takes a deep breath. The air he breathes is clean because some tree hugging liberal fought for laws to stop industries from polluting our air. He walks to the subway station for his government subsidized ride to work; it saves him considerable money in parking and transportation fees. You see, some liberal fought for affordable public transportation, which gives everyone the opportunity to be a contributor.

BLACK FLAG begins his work day; he has a good job with excellent pay, medicals benefits, retirement, paid holidays and vacation because some liberal union members fought and died for these working standards. BLACK FLAG'S employer pays these standards because BLACK FLAG'S employer doesn’t want his employees to call the union. If BLACK FLAG is hurt on the job or becomes unemployed he’ll get a worker compensation or unemployment check because some liberal didn’t think he should lose his home because of his temporary misfortune.

Its noon time, BLACK FLAG needs to make a Bank Deposit so he can pay some bills. BLACK FLAG'S deposit is federally insured by the FSLIC because some liberal wanted to protect BLACK FLAG'S money from unscrupulous bankers who ruined the banking system before the depression.

BLACK FLAG has to pay his Fannie Mae underwritten Mortgage and his below market federal student loan because some stupid liberal decided that BLACK FLAG and the government would be better off if he was educated and earned more money over his life-time.

BLACK FLAG is home from work, he plans to visit his father this evening at his farm home in the country. He gets in his car for the drive to dads; his car is among the safest in the world because some liberal fought for car safety standards. He arrives at his boyhood home. He was the third generation to live in the house financed by Farmers Home Administration because bankers didn’t want to make rural loans. The house didn’t have electric until some big government liberal stuck his nose where it didn’t belong and demanded rural electrification. (Those rural Republican’s would still be sitting in the dark)

He is happy to see his dad who is now retired. His dad lives on Social Security and his union pension because some liberal made sure he could take care of himself so BLACK FLAG wouldn’t have to. After his visit with dad he gets back in his car for the ride home.

He turns on a radio talk show, the host’s keeps saying that liberals are bad and conservatives are good. (He doesn’t tell BLACK FLAG that his beloved Republicans have fought against every protection and benefit BLACK FLAG enjoys throughout his day) BLACK FLAG agrees, “We don’t need those big government liberals ruining our lives; after all, I’m a self made man who believes everyone should take care of themselves, just like I have”.

[hideyoursheep]

Bulls-eye, amigo.

Probaby shouldn't drink coffee with his meds, though.

He's wound up tight enough.

[LoungeMachine]

I just love the "fuck taxes" crowd, who usually are the biggest USERS of said benes....

I personally dont appreciate MY tax money being spent to build bombs or render civilians, but yet they take it every week.....

:gulp:

[Blackflag]

Day in the Life of BLACK FLAG


by John Gray

BLACK FLAG gets up at 6:00am to prepare his morning coffee.

I don't drink coffee.




He fills his pot full of good clean drinking water because some liberal fought for minimum water quality standards.

I drink bottled water.




He takes his daily medication with his first swallow of coffee. His medications are safe to take because some liberal fought to insure their safety and work as advertised.

I don't take any medications.




BLACK FLAG'S bacon is safe to eat because some liberal fought for laws to regulate the meat packing industry.

I don't eat bacon, because it's disgusting.



BLACK FLAG takes his morning shower reaching for his shampoo; His bottle is properly labeled with every ingredient and the amount of its contents because some liberal fought for his right to know what he was putting on his body and how much it contained.

I don't give a fuck what's in the shampoo, and I've never read the label.




The air he breathes is clean because some tree hugging liberal fought for laws to stop industries from polluting our air.

I'm a member of Sierra Club. (I pay them to help fight the environmental degradation done by my tax dollars.)





BLACK FLAG begins his work day; he has a good job with excellent pay, medicals benefits, retirement, paid holidays and vacation because some liberal union members fought and died for these working standards.

I'm self-employed.



Its noon time, BLACK FLAG needs to make a Bank Deposit so he can pay some bills. BLACK FLAG'S deposit is federally insured by the FSLIC because some liberal wanted to protect BLACK FLAG'S money from unscrupulous bankers who ruined the banking system before the depression.

The real estate I have is all paid off.



BLACK FLAG has to pay his Fannie Mae underwritten Mortgage and his below market federal student loan because some stupid liberal decided that BLACK FLAG and the government would be better off if he was educated and earned more money over his life-time.

I got five diplomas, each on scholarship and/or employer paid.



His dad lives on Social Security and his union pension because some liberal made sure he could take care of himself so BLACK FLAG wouldn’t have to. After his visit with dad he gets back in his car for the ride home.

Both parents dead, never saw a dime of SS, after paying into it continuously since their teens.


That was a genius post, Lounge...genius, I tell you! You've actually taken being a sheep to a new level...you just copy and paste your thoughts wholesale off the internet. Impressive.

I wonder if there's a shortcut key you could use, so you literally don't have to use your brain at all when you post?




I personally dont appreciate MY tax money being spent to build bombs or render civilians, but yet they take it every week.....

Well, that's where your federal taxes go, baby. Love it or leave it. It pays for bombs, pays Haliburton, it lines the pockets of 50 countries around the world, including Israel and North Korea, limos for congressmen, bridges to nowhere, some professor to study the mating habits of toads, silver and china in government building dining areas (saw that myself a few weeks ago)...and helps to pay part of roads along with state and local taxes.

But you pay it - and gladly - because someone told you it makes your bacon safe and keeps your drug costs low. Meanwhile, your dollar buys another bullet. That's fucking awesome. :killer: If companies knew how to run a pr campaign that good, they'd all be making money hand over fist right now.

By the way, loyal tax subjects...Obama says he wants to cut personal and corporate taxes across the board for the good of the economy. That flies in the face of the cool websites you love to copy from.

So either he and I are fucking stupid...or we're both smart. Which is it?

[hideyoursheep]

I don't drink coffee.




I drink bottled water.



faggot

[Blackflag]

faggot

Homo.

[hideyoursheep]

If you're so set, why do you cry so much?

[Blackflag]

If I were set, would I be here talking to you? Bonesmuggler.

[hideyoursheep]

Keep it up, and you'll be eating shit like a retarded unicorn.

Turdhunter.

[hideyoursheep]

Ahh...fuck this.

You're not worthy.

and your dial-up is slower than snail jizz.

[Blackflag]

I don't get your unicorn reference... and I think snails are asexual.

[Blackflag]

Buttpirate.

[hideyoursheep]

I don't get your unicorn reference....

Lol...You will....trust me.



and I think snails are asexual.

Something else you two have in common.

[Blackflag]

Why don't you rest your brain from these stupid fucking metaphors you're reaching for and have yourself a Mr. Pibb. :gulp:

[Golden AWe]

Why think about foreign politics?

I'm expecting Obama bin Laden try to turn into a Roosevelt when it comes to US economy. I doubt he really can, but one can always hope.

I know foreign politics eat it too, but anyway.

[hideyoursheep]

Turn into Roosevelt?

I was hoping for Dolemite!

[FORD]

I don't drink coffee.
I drink bottled water.


Are you Mormon (https://secure.lds.org/units/stake/0,9780,606-1-5-503134,00.html) or something?

[Blackflag]

Are you Mormon (https://secure.lds.org/units/stake/0,9780,606-1-5-503134,00.html) or something?

No. But I'm sure if I said I yes, you'd have plenty to say about it, Mr. Tolerance. :rolleyes:

[Big Train]

Excellent side argument here guys, the back and forth is flawless.

Followup question, to those who think Obama's infrastructure plan will work (which I do, one of the few things I agree with him on). Do you think that our society is capable of waiting that long or has the fortitude he described in his speech and general "buck up" campaign of the last week?

It seems like 15 months in, the lobbies that supported him on it might start to dog him while looking for theirs (funding for social programs, and more and more straight handouts to business).

Also, something I was reading today, how do you feel about his support for "Faith-based programs" (Ford I'm looking your way). Bush was ridden hard about this, yet Obama wants to keep it going as he sees it "works" in inner cities (Keeps Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton in "Work" he means). Does this bother you at all?

[Big Train]

Bump.

[Redballjets88]

Bump.

I don't think any of the staunch liberals here have answered the original question yet.

I guess in the past 8 years they forgot what they wanted and only focused on hating Bush.

[hideyoursheep]

I don't think any of the staunch liberals here have answered the original question yet.

I guess in the past 8 years they forgot what they wanted and only focused on hating Bush.

Bother to read any of the answers yet?:cool:

[sadaist]

:lol:

Seriously, the paying my share doesn't get me steamed, it's the waste of what I give them that I quietly steam about everyday.

They waste what they take from you and end up short so what do they do? Raise them. I don't mind paying my share, nor do I think many others do, as long as it's a fair share and spent wisely.

[GAR]

I just love the "fuck taxes" crowd, who usually are the biggest USERS of said benes....

I personally dont appreciate MY tax money being spent to build bombs or render civilians, but yet they take it every week.....

I just love these "I have no preference to becoming as subjugated as a gerbil by my government" posts of yours because once hamstrung of your freedoms, you're grabbing for your guns and eating your fucking words in the trenches of the next revolution with regret.

[FORD]

Also, something I was reading today, how do you feel about his support for "Faith-based programs" (Ford I'm looking your way). Bush was ridden hard about this, yet Obama wants to keep it going as he sees it "works" in inner cities (Keeps Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton in "Work" he means). Does this bother you at all?

There's nothing inherently "wrong" with faith based programs in and of themselves. Habitat for Humanity is one example of a religious based charity that works very well. And there are partnerships between church based charities and government in many areas, such as emergency shelters, and low income housing.

The problem with Chimpy's approach was that he wanted to only deal with right wing religious organizations, and his ultimate intention was to use religion to replace government in these areas.

Obama knows about how this works in the inner cities because he personally was involved with such organizations in Chicago. Yes, that "horrible man" Jeremiah Wright, whom the corporate media attacked mercilessly for weeks because of a 10 second soundbite, has actually done a Hell of a lot for the people of his community (also served his country in the Marines, including a stint at the White House guarding LBJ)

So if I heard that President Obama wanted to set up some sort of government partnership with Trinity United Church in Chicago, I wouldn't at all be opposed to that. Or even with Rick Warren's church, provided the money wasn't going to fund any more Prop H8 type bullshit.

[Big Train]

Interesting. I always figured your problem with it is where my problem is...funding anything faith-based is inherently removing separation of church and state.

[FORD]

Interesting. I always figured your problem with it is where my problem is...funding anything faith-based is inherently removing separation of church and state.

It doesn't have to be. Let's say your local Catholic Archdiocese applies for some state or federal funds to help build a homeless shelter. As long as they're meeting the basic needs of homeless people, and not being overtly preachy to them, then it's not really violating church/state separation. Although it does allow those who operate such a facility to do as JC told them to do in the gospel of Matthew.

[GAR]

.. media attacked mercilessly for weeks because of a 10 second soundbite

Show us a link where Wright apologizes for his 10-second "misstep".. there's alot of preparation that went into that sermon before and after the 10 seconds which I'd call "dedicated blashpemy" because that's the intent behind that particular sermon.

He goes on and on to support his views about the country, 3-strike laws, prisons - if he were truly focused on injustices within law enforcement he should join a panel to berate the cops with from his position in the bully pulpit.

As a pastor his main ordained focus is salvation and the Great Commision, not government.

[GAR]

Let's say your local Catholic Archdiocese..

- let's say the Pope is the pincusion of Satan's cock. Let's just say it like it is.

FUCK the pope.

[hideyoursheep]

They waste what they take from you and end up short so what do they do? Raise them. I don't mind paying my share, nor do I think many others do, as long as it's a fair share and spent wisely.
Well, we'll see just how much can be put back into the Treasury once all the non-essentials are eliminated, such as corporate welfare and hidden breaks for those who don't need them to begin with.

There's plenty of money for the govt. to operate, if the elected officials stop taking kickbacks from lobbyists to add secretive shit to bills that allow them to skip out on paying their share while the small guy bleeds through the nose.

There are thousands of loopholes you don't know about.

[Satan]

- let's say the Pope is the pincusion of Satan's cock. Let's just say it like it is.

FUCK the pope.


OK, as long as you're talking about Carly Pope.......

http://planete.qc.ca/nettie/images/WallCelebFem/carlypope04_800X600.jpg
I could "pincushion" that with the Third Horn for a while. http://www.cosgan.de/images/smilie/teufel/d065.gif