U.S. Infrastructure Crumbling

[Nickdfresh]

Engineers seek stimulus add-on for crumbling infrastructure
By Alan Levin, USA TODAY
WASHINGTON — The USA's infrastructure is crumbling and threatens the nation's economic well-being, according to a new report by a top engineering group.

A lack of investment in roads, bridges, mass transit and aviation means the cost of repair over the next five years has skyrocketed to $2.2 trillion, according to the American Society of Civil Engineers (ASCE). In its last estimate four years ago, the cost was $1.6 trillion.

The ASCE, which has 146,000 members worldwide, is the country's oldest national engineering society.

Overall, the 15 categories graded by the ASCE received an average grade of "D" or poor, the group said in a press release. Aviation, roads and transit were downgraded from the group's last report.

The group rushed release of its report so it can be considered during debate Wednesday on the $825 billion economic stimulus package President Obama is pushing before Congress. The legislation includes $63 billion in infrastructure spending on transportation and environmental projects. ASCE members would oversee some of that work.

"A failing infrastructure cannot support a healthy economy," said Wayne Klotz, president of ASCE and the head of a civil engineering firm in Houston. "Crumbling infrastructure has a direct impact on our personal and economic health, and the nation's infrastructure crisis is endangering our future prosperity."

Not all infrastructure experts agree with ASCE's approach.

University of California-Berkeley economist David Dowall, who teaches city and regional planning, acknowledges that spending on infrastructure has fallen dramatically since the 1950s and '60s.

But he disagrees that simply rebuilding or expanding existing roads or other infrastructure is the best way to improve the economy. Getting people to drive fewer miles or to become more energy-efficient makes more sense than massive construction projects, Dowall said.

Klotz spent Tuesday briefing lawmakers and their staff on Capitol Hill in advance of today's expected vote on the stimulus bill. The group is non-partisan, and has argued for years that the country has neglected its transportation network, sewer systems, public buildings and other infrastructure.

The group estimated that people spend 4.2 billion hours a year stuck in traffic, costing the economy $78.2 billion. Flight delays have surged because of an outdated air-traffic system, it reported.


USAToday (http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-01-28-crumbling_N.htm)

[Sarge]

Well, I am stationed In Italy and the roads here SUCK!
1 lane roads for 2 automobiles.

Germany is modern, but sometimes I feel like I am in Mexico with the conditions here.

Breasts,

[Pink Spider]

[SIZE="3"]
A lack of investment in roads, bridges, mass transit and aviation means the cost of repair over the next five years has skyrocketed to $2.2 trillion, according to the American Society of Civil Engineers (ASCE). In its last estimate four years ago, the cost was $1.6 trillion.[/b]

Of course they didn't bother to state on how much building from scratch would cost. Why would they?


ASCE members would oversee some of that work.


"A failing infrastructure cannot support a healthy economy," said Wayne Klotz, president of ASCE and the head of a civil engineering firm in Houston. "Crumbling infrastructure has a direct impact on our personal and economic health, and the nation's infrastructure crisis is endangering our future prosperity."

Now, I understand. The bailout money will directly benefit them. So, everything is in sudden chaos. "You will suffer if you don't give us more money!".

Right.

[Va Beach VH Fan]

Well, I am stationed In Italy and the roads here SUCK!
1 lane roads for 2 automobiles.

Germany is modern, but sometimes I feel like I am in Mexico with the conditions here.

Breasts,

Yeah, but you can hit the Autostrada and fucking FLY !!!

[Nickdfresh]

Of course they didn't bother to state on how much building from scratch would cost. Why would they?


I think at some point, power outrages from an electric grid years out of date and way overtaxed will probably cost us more than gradually replacing things. You know, like collapsing bridges and highways with cracks and potholes?



Now, I understand. The bailout money will directly benefit them. So, everything is in sudden chaos. "You will suffer if you don't give us more money!".

Right.

I don't even get your point on that...

[Pink Spider]

I think at some point, power outrages from an electric grid years out of date and way overtaxed will probably cost us more than gradually replacing things. You know, like collapsing bridges and highways with cracks and potholes?

I might be somewhat libertarian, but I do think that infrastructure should be fixed when needed. That is one use of government that I agree with. As long as it's not wasteful. Also, if the infrastructure can be replaced and save enough money to justify the cost, I'm for it.


I don't even get your point on that...

I meant that they're not an impartial group doing the research. If they're benefiting from government cash, they shouldn't be the ones saying how much it's going to cost. I would give everything a "D" too, if it would get me more government money.

[Big Train]

Engineers seek stimulus add-on for crumbling infrastructure
By Alan Levin, USA TODAY


Not all infrastructure experts agree with ASCE's approach.

University of California-Berkeley economist David Dowall, who teaches city and regional planning, acknowledges that spending on infrastructure has fallen dramatically since the 1950s and '60s.

But he disagrees that simply rebuilding or expanding existing roads or other infrastructure is the best way to improve the economy. Getting people to drive fewer miles or to become more energy-efficient makes more sense than massive construction projects, Dowall said.

USAToday (http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-01-28-crumbling_N.htm)

So what the fuck are we spending a trillion on? Oh yea, "keep the unions" busy projects, like fixing up numerous shitty apartment complex setups in North Hollywood.

Retarded planning from an inexperienced leader, funded by the plans of a known tax cheat and loaded up with favors for every known zip code of the Democratic Party...Change indeed.

[Nickdfresh]

So what the fuck are we spending a trillion on? Oh yea, "keep the unions" busy projects, like fixing up numerous shitty apartment complex setups in North Hollywood.

Retarded planning from an inexperienced leader, funded by the plans of a known tax cheat and loaded up with favors for every known zip code of the Democratic Party...Change indeed.


Oh, thanks guy that lived in the state that started the energy crisis enabled by the Bush admin and his Enron cronies!

SUCKER!

[Big Train]

????? is all I can say to that post. Get some coffee champ and come back...

[Nickdfresh]

????? is all I can say to that post. Get some coffee champ and come back...

And what can I say to your blanket "unions suck" mentality?


They're not the ones bringing this country down, Things like exporting our manufacturing to China while spending a good deal of our massive defense budget countering them makes how much fucking sense?

[kwame k]

And what can I say to your blanket "unions suck" mentality?


They're not the ones bringing this country down, Things like exporting our manufacturing to China while spending a good deal of our massive defense budget countering them makes how much fucking sense?

I believe it makes non-sense, just my 2 cents.

[LoungeMachine]

????? is all I can say to that post. Get some coffee champ and come back...

Forgot about ENRON already, huh?

[Big Train]

Wow guys, reach.

My personal belief is that the unions do not improve their members lives much and that they profit from the hoarding of key jobs by instituting a fee structure that is unnecessary and serves to just tax that hard working person even further for the right to a job. I won't even get into the historic mafia influence and how that "helped" the union worker as well with violence, extortion and in many cases murder (NY construction comes to mind). All preying on the very same workers they claim to fight for.

That said, this bill is bullshit because it just makes said unions busy for awhile, not for the long term. Fixing up ratholes in North Hollywood does not make for a sustainable career or really a shot in the arm for this economy. It's just busy work because they have no better ideas.

Please tell me how fixing up said ratholes is:

Investing in the "green economy"
Creating viable long term well paying jobs in new industries
How it stimulates any growth in existing companies beyond the work orders recieved under this bill?
How it creates investor confidence in the market which will help resume lending (once private investment is willing to once again buy securities)
How it eases up the toxic debt and how it values that debt?

That's right, it does none of those things.

However, it does pay back the democratic base in spades.

[FORD]

Yeah, but you can hit the Autostrada and fucking FLY !!!

Is that Italy's answer to the Autobahn?

I would assume that the country that makes Ferraris and Lamborghinis must have decent roads somewhere. :drive:

[WACF]

Wow guys, reach.

My personal belief is that the unions do not improve their members lives much and that they profit from the hoarding of key jobs by instituting a fee structure that is unnecessary and serves to just tax that hard working person even further for the right to a job. I won't even get into the historic mafia influence and how that "helped" the union worker as well with violence, extortion and in many cases murder (NY construction comes to mind). All preying on the very same workers they claim to fight for.



As someone who has worked in the Mining industry for over 20 years I can say you are wrong.

I live it...

Look at your own countries history with coal...unions saved lives.


Mob references...perhaps....but that is a broad brush stroke you are using there.

That would be like everyone that does not vote Dem a Neo-Con...

[Big Train]

Broad brush strokes is kind of what we do around here. While your right, I'm not familiar with Canadian mining unions, it does not negate what I'm saying about unions in America, where I am familiar.

While union money, yes, has been used in useful applications for the workers (I'll go balanced here), it does not change any of what I feel about it in the negative. Mafia influence has always been a part to a greater or lesser degree in the US. In total, I don't feel that unions provide the best route to what workers need and in many industries stand in the way of getting them. If it's working for you in Canadian mining, then that is great. I just don't think across the board they are the best way to go. I'm saying that because I'm pro worker, not so much anti-union.

An for the record, it certainly does feel like anyone who didn't vote for a dem is labeled a neo-con around here.

[WACF]

Broad brush strokes is kind of what we do around here. While your right, I'm not familiar with Canadian mining unions, it does not negate what I'm saying about unions in America, where I am familiar.

While union money, yes, has been used in useful applications for the workers (I'll go balanced here), it does not change any of what I feel about it in the negative. Mafia influence has always been a part to a greater or lesser degree in the US. In total, I don't feel that unions provide the best route to what workers need and in many industries stand in the way of getting them. If it's working for you in Canadian mining, then that is great. I just don't think across the board they are the best way to go. I'm saying that because I'm pro worker, not so much anti-union.


Perhaps it is different in the US...here it was key to getting health and saftey laws cemented into legislation.

It was key in forming a mining act.

Because of Unions...non union shops exist and enoy being covered by the laws unions helped create...something we can all be thankful for.

Non-Union shops pay competitive wages to keep employee's loyal.

It is important to find balance...if there were no unions I think we would be fucked as workers...if unions controlled all labour...no company could exist.

Unions in manufacturing and industry...yes

unions flipping burgers....just plain silly.


On a side note...

I was in Elko, Nevada looking at some mining equipment we were looking at purchasing amost two years ago.
We were taken on a tour of a mine to see some of the equipment in the field.
When we asked about desiel emmisions...they did not really know what they were.
There...once a month the mine's inspector would come...tune the equipment to meet safe levels...he would leave, then they would put all the equipment back.

There was no concern about the operators breathing in excessive exhaust...and no recourse for the inspector finding the equipment being set to unsafe levels.

The operators did not care...the extra product they hauled translated into a bonus...which trumped their future health.

That would not fly up here...


An for the record, it certainly does feel like anyone who didn't vote for a dem is labeled a neo-con around here.

True...but we know better...

[sadaist]

The group estimated that people spend 4.2 billion hours a year stuck in traffic, costing the economy $78.2 billion.

My experiences with traffic have about 0.01% to do with the roads and 99.99% to do with horrible drivers. People don't understand how merging works, driving in rain, putting on makeup, drinking coffee while eating a McMuffin, texting, not pulling to the side for fender benders, not pulling to the side when their crappy car runs out of gas or seizes up. How many times have you been doing 5 mph on the freeway for an hour just to finally see two cars pulled to the side with a cop because they bumped fenders....because someone wasn't paying attention or merged improperly?

[FORD]

Sometimes its not that easy to "pull over to the side". A few years ago, I was doing about 75-80 on I-5 just a few miles south of Bellingham. The area is almost like going over a mountain pass.... two lanes, really narrow shoulders, if you go off the left side, you go straight down, and if you go off the right side, you hit the hillside itself. Suddenly I hear a noise that at first sounds like a helicopter flying over head, then things get really bumpy....Oh fuck...... Left front tire completely blown out. What the fuck to do now?

If I slowed down, I'd probably roll the damn thing right off a cliff. I'm in the left lane, so a lane change isn't practical in traffic, especially with lots of 18 wheelers in the mix.....

So I keep going another mile or so.... by some miracle, keeping the thing balanced on three functional tires. Finally I'm at a spot where there's a break in the traffic and barely enough of a right shoulder to pull off , so I do that, and then risk some asshole running me over while I swap the dead tire for the useless "emergency spare donut".

BTW... likely cause of this blowout? Shitty road conditions (to bring this back to infrastructure) Too bad that son of a bitch Tim Eyman wasn't willing to pay for the whole new set of tires that I wasn't planning on buying that week.

[Nickdfresh]

Broad brush strokes is kind of what we do around here. While your right, I'm not familiar with Canadian mining unions, it does not negate what I'm saying about unions in America, where I am familiar.

Oh, and how are you "familiar?"


While union money, yes, has been used in useful applications for the workers (I'll go balanced here), it does not change any of what I feel about it in the negative. Mafia influence has always been a part to a greater or lesser degree in the US. In total, I don't feel that unions provide the best route to what workers need and in many industries stand in the way of getting them. If it's working for you in Canadian mining, then that is great. I just don't think across the board they are the best way to go. I'm saying that because I'm pro worker, not so much anti-union.

An for the record, it certainly does feel like anyone who didn't vote for a dem is labeled a neo-con around here.

Oh sure, the unions are corrupt, but the corporations (ignoring workers dying of fucking cancer from their asbestos milkshakes served at lunch) are all fucking squeaky clean and innocent...

[Big Train]

Oh, and how are you "familiar?"



Oh sure, the unions are corrupt, but the corporations (ignoring workers dying of fucking cancer from their asbestos milkshakes served at lunch) are all fucking squeaky clean and innocent...

My father was in a union for twenty years, my grandfather was one of the original Teamster local chapter presidents and my uncles all were in unions. Every one of them walked away from them.

Your so fucking extreme Nick and in a retarded way. I can't say something like (and this is ALL I've said) that I don't believe that unions are the best way to go for workers, without you screaming that I must love big corporations and think they are flawless. It's a tiresome way to discuss with someone when you throw out these emotional tirades about things I've never said, that you assume.

[Nickdfresh]

My father was in a union for twenty years, my grandfather was one of the original Teamster local chapter presidents and my uncles all were in unions. Every one of them walked away from them.

So, do they think you're a complete, ungrateful dick that doesn't appreciate what their hard won rights to a living wage brought you?


Your so fucking extreme Nick and in a retarded way. I can't say something like (and this is ALL I've said) that I don't believe that unions are the best way to go for workers, without you screaming that I must love big corporations and think they are flawless. It's a tiresome way to discuss with someone when you throw out these emotional tirades about things I've never said, that you assume.


Yeah, I'm so "fucking extreme." The middle class if being gradually annihilated in this country with wealth polarization not seen since the days of robber baron capitalism...

But that's all my fault, eh biodiesel boy?

[Big Train]

Nope not at all pal. They ALL WALKED AWAY (it helps to read). In each case, they saw that the union became greedy and became more about itself than the worker. In each case as well, their "living wage" became much better after going out on their own, starting their own shops. Works for me too.

Well, your emotional ranting, which you'll realize I'm talking about when you come down from the bi-polar high, is what my post was discussing. That gem about the "middle class" in your previous post was not anything we were discussing, but some overarching thing your trying to throw in there, with me thinking that it's "your fault"? Not at all, nor did I say that, stay on task.

[Nickdfresh]

Nope not at all pal. They ALL WALKED AWAY (it helps to read). In each case, they saw that the union became greedy and became more about itself than the worker. In each case as well, their "living wage" became much better after going out on their own, starting their own shops. Works for me too.

They never would have been able to do shit if the unions hadn't been there in the first place! And I've never blindly defended unions and have criticized some of the UAW crap like "jobsbank" which is ridiculous, although I do believe working people deserve a severance just like white collar executives get...


Well, your emotional ranting, which you'll realize I'm talking about when you come down from the bi-polar high, is what my post was discussing. That gem about the "middle class" in your previous post was not anything we were discussing, but some overarching thing your trying to throw in there, with me thinking that it's "your fault"? Not at all, nor did I say that, stay on task.

Oh, okay. The funny thing is that I've caught you making many blanket statements in the past and it seemed that you were -oh- exaggerating for theatrical effect shall we say? Like the fact that you really didn't seem to know the first thing about the biodiesel stocks you were so in the aether over at one point...

But I'm the "emotional one?" Quite contraire. You're the one that is making blanket assertions and mindlessly droning on against unions, often with "facts" you cannot substantiate...

I'm not the one making the "emotive" patently ridiculous statements without logic and empathy, blankets...;)

I might also remind you that you were the first one to lose your temper and resort to the "flamefesting." Pot teakettle...

[Big Train]

They never would have been able to do shit if the unions hadn't been there in the first place! And I've never blindly defended unions and have criticized some of the UAW crap like "jobsbank" which is ridiculous, although I do believe working people deserve a severance just like white collar executives get...

If you say so. They did join of their own free will...and left of the same. Likewise, I've never said corporations were blameless or that people don't deserve decent pay or benefits. I've always doubted the union as being the right way to go about it. That seems to upset you greatly.

Oh, okay. The funny thing is that I've caught you making many blanket statements in the past and it seemed that you were -oh- exaggerating for theatrical effect shall we say? Like the fact that you really didn't seem to know the first thing about the biodiesel stocks you were so in the aether over at one point...

Really? Do tell. I'm still just as excited now about it as I was then. I fail to remember how you "put me in my place" over this. I put my money where my mouth is and invested quite a bit. All signs are still pointing up. But whatever makes you feel like a big boy...

But I'm the "emotional one?" Quite contraire. You're the one that is making blanket assertions and mindlessly droning on against unions, often with "facts" you cannot substantiate...

They are observations Nick, you hysterical woman. I cite facts and news stories where applicable. As do you. You really get sensitive at times man..

I might also remind you that you were the first one to lose your temper and resort to the "flamefesting." Pot teakettle...

Complete bullshit sir. I left this place for a while because of the retarded style of flaming you and others get involved in. I don't ever throw the first flame. If someone (usually you) throws some sort of retarded emotional flame on something that doesn't need it, I respond in kind. Of that I am guilty. But I rarely bag on someone who didn't bag on me first.

Usually what happens is I bag on something that you get sensitive about (i.e. unions) then you start flaming. Then you add in emotional statements that you attribute to me that I never said at all (i.e. You think this, well than you must think this!!-always with the exclamation for some strange reason).

You call my bagging on something (based on my own perceptions and facts to support my arguments) "emotive" but I see it as the opposite. If you could be a bit more dispassionate, we could have more productive arguments.

I think your a reasonably intelligent guy and you bring a lot to these discussions, but that type of thing is really draining

[GAR]

Please tell me how fixing up said ratholes is:

Investing in the "green economy"

However, it does pay back the democratic base in spades.

You must be referring to the Brown Economy the Dems placate to..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C3%AD_se_puede

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/46/126215828_e8f5f55684.jpg

For every dollar a Mexican saves an employer hiring illegals, it generates a debit of 10 in supportive services from the State of California, and I want these fuckers rounded up and deported:

police
fire
medic/ambulatory care
emergency room
welfare
AFDC
WIC
County Social Services
Jail/Prison/Parole
school & education
public transit
public highways

.. because if they are here in this country, they use these services.

[Big Train]

I might also remind you that you were the first one to lose your temper and resort to the "flamefesting." Pot teakettle...

Further, just look at this thread. Post #7 I make my statement against the stimulus bill. I wasn't flaming any other poster and certainly was not flaming you. Yet, because I mentioned unions (a great benefactor of this stimulus, it is what it is, so I kind of have to mention it), you get all bunched up and come out with an emotional comeback about my state and Enron, which has nothing to do with my post at all.

Rest my case..

[Nickdfresh]

Further, just look at this thread. Post #7 I make my statement against the stimulus bill. I wasn't flaming any other poster and certainly was not flaming you. Yet, because I mentioned unions (a great benefactor of this stimulus, it is what it is, so I kind of have to mention it), you get all bunched up and come out with an emotional comeback about my state and Enron, which has nothing to do with my post at all.

Rest my case..

Meh. You need to take a deep breath and have a drink or smoke a commemorative Micheal Phelps bong hit or something...

You did in fact call me a shithead or something. And you are way too emotional. Have you gone Emo on us?

[kwame k]

You must be referring to the Brown Economy the Dems placate to..

For every dollar a Mexican saves an employer hiring illegals, it generates a debit of 10 in supportive services from the State of California, and I want these fuckers rounded up and deported:

.. because if they are here in this country, they use these services.

That's who you remind me of si-gar...........just came to be.

http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll103/realtodd/225px-Herbert_Hoover.jpg


In 1929, President Hoover authorized the Mexican Repatriation program. To combat rampant unemployment, the burden on municipal aid services, and remove people seen as usurpers of American jobs, the program was largely a forced migration of an estimated 500,000 Mexicans and Mexican Americans to Mexico. Link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_Hoover)


I even used Wikipedia in your honor!









































Remember si-gar Feburary is Black History Month! (http://www.history.com/minisites/blackhistory)

[Big Train]

Meh. You need to take a deep breath and have a drink or smoke a commemorative Micheal Phelps bong hit or something...

You did in fact call me a shithead or something. And you are way too emotional. Have you gone Emo on us?

Ha ha...ok Nick. Meh, is all you got.

Not emotional at all, just get tired of yours.

I'm done with this one though, other things we can discuss.

[GAR]

Remember si-gar Feburary is Black History Month! (http://www.history.com/minisites/blackhistory)

I don't need to be indoctrinated, thank you. It's also the UN's Year of the fuckin' Potatoe but you won't see me worshipping my side of fries the way you're worshipping BO's Legacy of Nothing.

[LoungeMachine]

It's also the UN's Year of the fuckin' Potatoe .

Gar, Dan Quayle?

:lol:

[kwame k]

That's an insult to Dan Quayle!

[Nickdfresh]

Ha ha...ok Nick. Meh, is all you got.

No. I was wondering if you changed your soiled panties yet?


Not emotional at all, just get tired of yours.

I'm done with this one though, other things we can discuss.


Mmmm'kay...

[Va Beach VH Fan]

By the way, back on topic, as soon as the stim was signed today, they started building a new bridge in Missouri....

[FORD]

Why are the Repukes still bitching about "tax cuts"????

http://www.recovery.gov/themes/recovery_v3/images/moneychart.gif

http://www.recovery.gov/

[Pink Spider]

Why are the Repukes still bitching about "tax cuts"????

http://www.recovery.gov/themes/recovery_v3/images/moneychart.gif

http://www.recovery.gov/


So, basically $288 billion is going to have to be paid for by taxes to figure out how to cut taxes?

[kwame k]

Why are the Repukes still bitching about "tax cuts"????


You know exactly why they are bitching........backing themselves on a pony......the mid-terms......you know as well as I do that there's a good chance that benefits from this package may not see fruition before the mid-terms.....that being the case, the Repukes have a change of gaining back some ground.

Smart play.

[FORD]

So, basically $288 billion is going to have to be paid for by taxes to figure out how to cut taxes?

Roll back the tax cuts for the rich to pre-Reagan levels, then close all the loopholes, and it won't take that long.

[FORD]

You know exactly why they are bitching........backing themselves on a pony......the mid-terms......you know as well as I do that there's a good chance that benefits from this package may not see fruition before the mid-terms.....that being the case, the Repukes have a change of gaining back some ground.

Smart play.

If people are that goddamn stupid and gullible after the last 28 years, then I suggest we make this post 2004 election map a reality....


http://www.lukecole.com/Electoral%20Maps/dumfuckistan.gif

Now obviously, Dumbfuckistan was a lot smaller in the most recent election, and DIEBOLD probably is the primary reason for the "loss" of some of those states. (That and the parts of some states that voted out of pure racist hatred) but seriously, if they forget what the Repukes did to this country in just 4 years and vote for them again, fuck 'em. This country would do better without that dead weight anyway.

[FORD]

http://images.starcraftmazter.net/4chan/countries/dumbfuckistan_shrinking.jpg

This map's not entirely right either.... Indiana seceded from Dumbfuckistan too.

[kwame k]

I've always said....Truth is a perception, a point of view.......American's vote how they are feeling or how they think they are benefiting at any giving point.....to quote the Godfather......<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Tk6DPq2_c2M&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Tk6DPq2_c2M&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[Pink Spider]

If people are that goddamn stupid and gullible after the last 28 years, then I suggest we make this post 2004 election map a reality....


http://www.lukecole.com/Electoral&#37;20Maps/dumfuckistan.gif

Now obviously, Dumbfuckistan was a lot smaller in the most recent election, and DIEBOLD probably is the primary reason for the "loss" of some of those states. (That and the parts of some states that voted out of pure racist hatred) but seriously, if they forget what the Repukes did to this country in just 4 years and vote for them again, fuck 'em. This country would do better without that dead weight anyway.

I'm not quite convinced that Dumbfuckistan has any borders. In fact, I'm quite convinced that this is Dumbfuckistan:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/97/The_Earth_seen_from_Apollo_17.jpg/240px-The_Earth_seen_from_Apollo_17.jpg

[FORD]

It's gotta be more than that, Pinky! At least since Hagar started "Marching to Mars". Maybe the whole Milky Way galaxy is infested with Dumbfucks?

Guess I'll have to move to Vulcan.

[Big Train]

No. I was wondering if you changed your soiled panties yet?




Mmmm'kay...

Yea, wanted to see if I could borrow some Huggies from you.

I'm totally willing to let it go, but you have to get your last word in. Yet, I'm emotional....

[Va Beach VH Fan]

Is that Italy's answer to the Autobahn?

I would assume that the country that makes Ferraris and Lamborghinis must have decent roads somewhere. :drive:

Yeah, it's great, 'cause the cops don't care how fast you go... I remember passing cops all the time...

But you better watch it if you're in the passing lane... I remember a couple of times that I saw a yellow blur coming at me, turned out to be a Ferrari going about 140 (mph) or so...

[Nickdfresh]

I'm not quite convinced that Dumbfuckistan has any borders. In fact, I'm quite convinced that this is Dumbfuckistan:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/97/The_Earth_seen_from_Apollo_17.jpg/240px-The_Earth_seen_from_Apollo_17.jpg

This is their leader:

http://www.balynce.com/wall/sammy3.jpg

[Nickdfresh]

Yea, wanted to see if I could borrow some Huggies from you.

Sure! You need powder with doze?


I'm totally willing to let it go, but you have to get your last word in. Yet, I'm emotional....
:(

[Nickdfresh]

Yeah, it's great, 'cause the cops don't care how fast you go... I remember passing cops all the time...

But you better watch it if you're in the passing lane... I remember a couple of times that I saw a yellow blur coming at me, turned out to be a Ferrari going about 140 (mph) or so...

I know in Germany you get a ticket for just using the left lane for cruising and not passing someone. You also get severe penalties for: tailgating, using a cell phone, eating, and listening to loud music while driving over...

[GAR]

http://images.starcraftmazter.net/4chan/countries/dumbfuckistan_shrinking.jpg

This map's not entirely right either.... Indiana seceded from Dumbfuckistan too.

From the other more highly accurate map in this thread, DFUSA is actually growing in strength!

[GAR]

I've always said....Truth is a perception, a point of view.......American's vote how they are feeling or how they think they are benefiting at any giving point.....to quote the Godfather....

American's vote on feelings manipulated by the greatest hoodswindlers of all - Washington DC.

Not even a month into a new Presidency and half the country is, to quote the Godfather...

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