Democratic Senator Predicts None of His Colleagues 'Will Have the Chance' to Read..

[Pink Spider]

The title wouldn't quite fit, so I had to put the rest of it in the description..

http://cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=43478&print=on

CNSNews.com
Democratic Senator Predicts None of His Colleagues 'Will Have the Chance' to Read Final Stimulus Bill Before Vote
Friday, February 13, 2009
By Ryan Byrnes and Edwin Mora


Sen. Frank Lautenberg (D.-N.J.)
(CNSNews.com) – Sen. Frank Lautenberg (D-N.J.) predicted on Thursday that none of his Senate colleagues would "have the chance" to read the entire final version of the $790-billion stimulus bill before the bill comes up for a final vote in Congress.

“No, I don’t think anyone will have the chance to [read the entire bill],” Lautenberg told CNSNews.com.

The final bill, crafted by a House-Senate conference committee, was posted on the Website of the House Appropriations Committe late Thurday in two PDF files.

The first PDF was 424 pages long and the second PDF was 575 pages long, making the total bill 999 pages long. The House is expected to vote on this 999-page bill Friday, and the Senate either later Friday or Saturday. [Editor's note: The first PDF, as posted on the House Appropriations Committee website as of 8:20 AM Friday morning, had grown by 72 pages to 496 pages, increasing the length of the total document to 1,071 pages.]

Of the several senators that CNSNews.com interviewed on Thursday, only Sen. George Voinovich (R-Ohio) claimed to have read the entire bill--and he was speaking of the preliminary version that had been approved by the Senate, not the final 999-page version that the House-Senate conference committee was still haggling over on Thursday afternoon.

When CNSNews.com asked members of both parties on Capitol Hill on Thursday whether they had read the full, final bill, not one member could say, "Yes."

And only one--Voinovich--volunteered that he had actually read the version of the bill that had passed the Senate.

Both Republicans and Democrats told CNSNews.com they were eager to read the unseen bill--once they could get get their hands on a copy of the final legislation.

Nonetheless, members from both sides of the aisle in both the House and Senate admitted they doubted they would have adequate time to read the bill before they actually voted for it.

“Certainly I hope to have the opportunity to go through [the bill] before the vote takes place,” said Sen. Bob Corker (R-Tenn.) told CNSNews.com. “But that’s something I’ve found doesn’t always happen around here.”

Some lawmakers said one of the reasons they would not vote for the bill was because there would be no time to study it before it came up for a vote.

“The Democrats have thrown this at us very last-minute,” said Rep. Zach Wamp (R-Tenn.). “That’s why the rule of thumb in the United States Congress should be, ‘When in doubt, vote no,’ because the devil is in the details and that’s why this stimulus is not worthy of support.”

Rep. John Boozman (R-Ark.) shared that sentiment. “The American public expects for us to get in and know what we’re voting on,” Boozman said. “But there are very few members from Congress that are going to have time to actually read this thing.”

“This is not light reading,” Boozman added. “It’s difficult reading, it involves policy and things.”

“Right now, because of those things, I will probably vote against it,” he added.

Sen. Roland Burris (D-Ill.), President Barack Obama's successor in the Senate, seemed baffled by the thought of actually reading the entire bill--as did his press secretary.

“I think it’s about 800 pages,” Burris's press secretary said before laughing lightly. “We’ll do the best we can.”

Sen. John Thune (R-S.D.) said that due to the hasty process, he may not have time to read the whole bill.

“I will, as much as I can, get through all the changes that occurred in the conference committee,” says Thune.

“That’s assuming we have time to review it prior to the vote,” he added, “This is a very rushed process, the whole process, starting from the beginning has been very rushed.”

Voinovich, the only member of Congress who told CNSNews.com that he had taken the time to read through every line of the stimulus bill that had been initially approved by the Senate, said he planned to do the same for the final version of the bill that had been approved by the House-Senate conference committee.

But the Ohio Republican wasn’t sure if his colleagues would be as meticulous as he had been. “I don’t know,” he said, when asked if he thought others would read every line of the bill. “You’ll have to ask them.”

The bill is expected to land on President Obama’s desk no later than Monday, and the president is expected to sign it into law--whether the nation's lawmakers have read it or not.

[FORD]

CNS"News" is a Pat Robertson funded joke, but the whole idea of voting on a bill that you haven't read is fucking ridiculous. That's how we got the so-called "Patriot Act". Fucking idiots probably thought it was some symbolic flag waving bullshit resolution in the wake of the Reichstag II attack of 9-11-01. Even John Conyers, who is usually on the correct side of most issues, admitted to Michael Moore that he didn't read that piece of shit, and that most others (with the possible exception of Russ Feingold, Dennis Kucinich, and Bernie Sanders, who voted against it.) probably didn't either.......

[sadaist]

“I think it’s about 800 pages,” Burris's press secretary said before laughing lightly. “We’ll do the best we can.”

Laughing? You fucking dickhole. You should be punched in the eye. Why is this funny to you? I understand about laughing off things when bad stuff happens to you, but this is not one of those times. BE PISSED for Christ's sake. Stand up for not only your constituents, but ALL AMERICANS.

(I know this was just the spokeshole for the guy, but come on...spokesehole is supposed to be able to react appropriately.)

This stimulus is like The Thing. Grows and gets more evil with every passing hour.

[kwame k]

This stimulus is like The Thing. Grows and gets more evil with every passing hour.

Especially since Bush....pissed the first half of it away....When 21 banks were asked what they did with the first half of the TARP money EVERYONE of them said they did not know......18.4 billion went to salaries/bounes......and that was under Bush..........

[sadaist]

Especially since Bush....pissed the first half of it away....When 21 banks were asked what they did with the first half of the TARP money EVERYONE of them said they did not know......18.4 billion went to salaries/bounes......and that was under Bush..........

Fine, blame Bush. But only for the first half of the TARP. Now we can blame Obama for the second half of it and an additional $787 Billion. Seven hundred & eighty seven thousand million...or $787,000 X's $1,000,000...dang.

[kwame k]

Fine, blame Bush. But only for the first half of the TARP. Now we can blame Obama for the second half of it and an additional $787 Billion. Seven hundred & eighty seven thousand million...or $787,000 X's $1,000,000...dang.

Well....if we had any leadership in the last 8 years we wouldn't be in this mess, now would we.

[FORD]

Fine, blame Bush. But only for the first half of the TARP. Now we can blame Obama for the second half of it and an additional $787 Billion. Seven hundred & eighty seven thousand million...or $787,000 X's $1,000,000...dang.

Chimp still gets the blame for fucking up the economy in the first place, making such drastic measures necessary (although I'd argue against TARP being truly necessary myself, since I don't believe Wall Street Whores deserve bailouts)

[sadaist]

Guys, please. This is supposed to be a discussion how the Democrat authors of this bill are not allowing anyone to read it thoroughly before muscling it through. Why you may feel that the root of what caused the supposed "need" for this bill is George W., it doesn't change the fact that our elected officials have firmly placed their heads up their asses.

[kwame k]

So the root cause of the problem shouldn't be discussed in the context of this debate.....let's just say fuck the Democrats for responding to the economic depression that the Repukes put us in.....OK....discuss...

[sadaist]

So the root cause of the problem shouldn't be discussed in the context of this debate.....let's just say fuck the Democrats for responding to the economic depression that the Repukes put us in.....OK....discuss...

Idiot. No. There's 1,000 other threads here talking about just that. No one seems to be able to stay on task anymore. We are talking about why the Dems promised transparency, promised a minimum of 48 hours for the public to view the bill, yet only allowed a few hours for viewing the 1,000+ page bill and posted it in pdf format which does not allow key word search. And now any Republican who votes NO on this is against the common man and refuses to assist the Democrats in saving the country. Would you vote for a nearly trillion dollar spending bill if you hadn't read it yet? Anyone who does should be kicked out of office immediately. If the situation is so dire, the solution deserves a bit more thought.

When you're trying to pass a crap bill, resort to the typical change subject & distract tactics. Otherwise known as "Blame Bush".

[kwame k]

Alright...I blame Bush...you blame the Democrats.....bring something to the table.....give me specifics of the bill that you are opposed to.....moron! point for point. Prove your work with facts......

[FORD]

I think Sadie needs to see ELVIS' pharmacist, and get some of that new medication.

[sadaist]

Alright...I blame Bush...you blame the Democrats.....bring something to the table.....give me specifics of the bill that you are opposed to.....moron! point for point. Prove your work with facts......

How much time am I allotted for viewing it?

I didn't say I was opposed to the bill. How the fuck can I be opposed to it when I have very little idea what it contains? Therein lies the problem. How can any elected official who voted YES on this know what the fuck is in it? And YES! I blame the Democrats for this. They are the ones who drafted it, rushed it through, and all voted yes.

My NO vote is based solely on the fact that I don't know what the bill contains. What is your YES vote based on?

[kwame k]

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/video/flv/generic.html?s=frol02s4d4q7d&continuous=1

I'm busy watching the truth........Rush and Saddie can......de-Nile ain't just a river in Egypt....all they want.

[sadaist]

I think Sadie needs to see ELVIS' pharmacist, and get some of that new medication.

Same question.


My NO vote is based solely on the fact that I don't know what the bill contains. What is your YES vote based on?

[FORD]

Same question.


My NO vote is based solely on the fact that I don't know what the bill contains. What is your YES vote based on?

What YES vote? Am I in Congress now?

[kwame k]

How much time am I allotted for viewing it?

I didn't say I was opposed to the bill. How the fuck can I be opposed to it when I have very little idea what it contains? Therein lies the problem. How can any elected official who voted YES on this know what the fuck is in it? And YES! I blame the Democrats for this. They are the ones who drafted it, rushed it through, and all voted yes.

My NO vote is based solely on the fact that I don't know what the bill contains. What is your YES vote based on?


So what you're saying is.......you haven't even spent any time even reviewing any of this bill but will base your opinion on news blurbs saying no one has had time to review this final bill but......we've known about the rough content, specifics and many other parts of this bill for weeks but you are too stupid to have read any of it or too lazy to read the pfd now......so basically you have know clue WTF you are talking about, as usual....Sorry but the Front Line is for people on the grown up bus......not the short bus.....

[sadaist]

So what you're saying is.......you haven't even spent any time even reviewing any of this bill but will base your opinion on news blurbs saying no one has had time to review this final bill but......we've known about the rough content, specifics and many other parts of this bill for weeks but you are too stupid to have read any of it or too lazy to read the pfd now......so basically you have know clue WTF you are talking about, as usual....Sorry but the Front Line is for people on the grown up bus......not the short bus.....


It sure is reassuring that you and many similar to you are willing to spend nearly a trillion dollars only knowing about the "rough content" of the bill from weeks ago. Do you know what was changed, added, removed, or revised in the final draft? I've seen several pages with handwritten amendments on them so far. So because I demand my elected official to actually know what they are voting for you consider me stupid and immature?

[sadaist]

What YES vote? Am I in Congress now?

The people you elect and support are. Elected officials are nothing more than the voice of their constituents. (At least in theory)

[Guitar Shark]

It is completely unrealistic to think that ANY legislator reads every word of every piece of legislation that comes up for a vote, even very important pieces of legislation like this one. There is simply not enough time in the day. That is what congressional staffers are for.

[sadaist]

you are too stupid to have read any of it or too lazy to read the pfd now...

...so basically you have know clue WTF you are talking about, as usual...

Sorry but the Front Line is for people on the grown up bus......not the short bus.....

pfd? know clue? I thinking that empty seat in the short bus you are referring to might just have your name on it.

[sadaist]

It is completely unrealistic to think that ANY legislator reads every word of every piece of legislation that comes up for a vote, even very important pieces of legislation like this one. There is simply not enough time in the day. That is what congressional staffers are for.

The problem with that argument is the Obama promised transparency and promised a minimum of 48 hours for any bill to be reviewed by the public.

[FORD]

The problem with that argument is the Obama promised transparency and promised a minimum of 48 hours for any bill to be reviewed by the public.

Did you check the White House web site?

[Combat Ready]

Alright...I blame Bush...you blame the Democrats.....bring something to the table.....give me specifics of the bill that you are opposed to.....moron! point for point. Prove your work with facts......

Maybe we should blame all of the voters--each side continues to blame the other and look at the result. Yeah, Bush opened the door to socialism and President Obama and the dems have accelerated the pace at an alarming rate. It is our own darn fault.

Republicans have finally found their principals after deservedly getting their asses kicked the last two election cycles. Too little and too late.

The funny thing about offering specifics of opposition to the stimulus bill....Seriously? How can one be opposed to specific details that are not available? Is it not ridiculous that a vote was taken in both the House and Senate without them even knowing the fucking details?

I believe that Obama is a decent guy, who was elected convincingly. The man has every right to implement the programs he champions--so long as he has the support in Congress. He believes that big government can be the solution. There are those who disagree, and believe that government control is the problem.

The United States of America is the greatest Nation of all time...In my opinion. Freedom is what has separated us from the others---Freedom to succeed and Freedom to fail. Without the freedom to fail, there is no freedom at all.

Here's a great quote from a damn good President and it still applies today:

"It is not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly...who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause, who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who have never known neither victory nor defeat."

Teddy Roosevelt

[Guitar Shark]

The problem with that argument is the Obama promised transparency and promised a minimum of 48 hours for any bill to be reviewed by the public.

I heard about the "transparency" thing (which sounds nice, but means nothing), but had not heard about the 48 hour "promise." How can Obama promise anything on behalf of Congress? That makes no sense to me.

[Combat Ready]

Did you check the White House web site?

Sadaist is correct. The final bill was drafted 15 hours prior to the vote. There is not one politician who even "claimed" they read it prior to voting.

That is not good....No matter what side of the aisle you're on.

[Combat Ready]

Dems Break Promise To Post Stimulus Bill Online For 48-Hour Public Airing...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SURPRISE! Dems Break Promise: Stimulus Bill to Floor Friday by Connie Hair (more by this author)
Posted 02/12/2009 ET
Updated 02/13/2009 ET

In a press conference Thursday, the House Republican leadership spoke candidly about being kept out of the House-Senate conference on the Obama-Pelosi-Reid so-called “economic stimulus” bill. They confirmed they had not yet seen the text of the bill as of 4 p.m.

Minority Leader John Boehner (R-Ohio) said he was unsure how many Democrats would vote with Republicans again on this bill but that he thought Republicans “may get a few” Democrats to side with them. The fact that the Demos have now broken their promise to have the public able to see the bill for 48 hours may drive more Dems into the Republican camp.

“[i] don’t know, ‘cause they haven’t seen the bill either,” Boehner said.

“The American people have a right to know what’s in this bill,” Rep. Mike Pence (R-Ind) told HUMAN EVENTS after the press conference. “Every member of Congress -- Republicans and Democrats -- voted to post this bill on the internet for 48 hours, 48 hours ago. We’ll see if the Democrats keep their word.”

Actually -- as of 5:15 pm, the Democrats had broken their word. The stimulus bill -- which we still haven’t seen -- will be released late tonight and will be brought up on the House floor at 9 am tomorrow.

The following statement was released by Majority Leader Steny Hoyer at 4:57 p.m.:

"The House is scheduled to meet at 9:00 a.m. tomorrow and is expected to proceed directly to consideration of the American Recovery and Reinvestment conference report. The conference report text will be filed this evening, giving members enough time to review the conference report before voting on it tomorrow afternoon."

Meanwhile, at an earlier presser Thursday, Pelosi -- while talking about legislation regarding school construction funds -- said it was vital to see the language of a bill before making decisions. ReadtheStimulus.org had the following quote:

“With all of this you have to see the language. You said this --- I said that --- I understood it to be this way --- you know, we wanted to see it in writing and when we did that then we were able to go forward."

"Around here language means a lot. Words weigh a ton and one person's understanding of a spoken description might vary from another's. We wanted to see it. And not only just I had to see it, I had to show it to my colleagues and my caucus. We wanted to take all the time that was necessary to make sure it was right."

Congressional members are also exchanging barbs via the popular social network Twitter. Sen. Claire McCaskill (D-Mo.) twittered, "Don't know when we're going to vote. Will the no votes delay vote just because they can? Speed is important. They know that."

House Republican Whip Eric Cantor (R-Va.) twittered back, “Those in favor of speed over commonsense may just be afraid of letting the People know what they are ramming through.”

UPDATE: The Democrats finally made the bill's language available around 11 p.m. Thursday, approximately 10 hours before members meet Friday to consider the bill and 38 hours short of the time promised Americans to review the bill.


Connie Hair is a freelance writer, a former speechwriter for Rep. Trent Franks (R-AZ) and a former media and coalitions advisor to the Senate Republican Conference.


SURPRISE! Dems Break Promise: Stimulus Bill to Floor Friday - HUMAN EVENTS

[Big Train]

The whole process should be scrapped and they should start fresh. The sky isn't gonna fall over the next two weeks, so why not?

[hideyoursheep]

The whole process should be scrapped and they should start fresh. The sky isn't gonna fall over the next two weeks, so why not?

And fuck you because I agree with you!;)

[Nickdfresh]

Fucking spare me already!

Really?

This has been a problem for at least the last 20 to 30 years. but now all of a sudden the fact that there is no way in hell elected representatives can read all of the legislation they vote in NOW such a major issue? Really?

[Nickdfresh]

The problem with that argument is the Obama promised transparency and promised a minimum of 48 hours for any bill to be reviewed by the public.

Please cite Obama saying this and in what context...

[Combat Ready]

Fucking spare me already!

Really?

This has been a problem for at least the last 20 to 30 years. but now all of a sudden the fact that there is no way in hell elected representatives can read all of the legislation they vote in NOW such a major issue? Really?

Exactly right, that's the point. It's business as usual--where’s the change?

[Combat Ready]

More of the same....

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[GAR]

. 18.4 billion went to salaries/bounes......and that was under Bush..........

..but not "under" Pelosi? She came online in 2006.

She's the one pushing for it.

[Nickdfresh]

Exactly right, that's the point. It's business as usual--where’s the change?

The Oval Office added precisely 100 IQ points!

[Big Train]

And fuck you because I agree with you!;)

What, it could happen! I enjoy debating you, but it's a good change of pace once in awhile.

[Big Train]

Fucking spare me already!

Really?

This has been a problem for at least the last 20 to 30 years. but now all of a sudden the fact that there is no way in hell elected representatives can read all of the legislation they vote in NOW such a major issue? Really?

It is in this case because it's one of the biggest, if not the biggest spending bill of all time. It should require at least a topline digestion by those voting on it and asking their constituents to fund for decades to come. A LITTLE understanding is not a lot to ask..

[Combat Ready]

The Oval Office added precisely 100 IQ points!

Ok--pretty funny I must admit....That would be change!

The past few weeks would make you wonder if that's the case though. You must admit that several mistakes have already been made, including the substantial number of failed/withdrawn cabinet nominations and the stimulus debacle.

Still way early though, the learning curve would be overwhelming for anyone. Very few will remember the early challenges in a year or so.

I wish him the best....Just lose the socialist agenda and I'm on board.

[Nickdfresh]

It is in this case because it's one of the biggest, if not the biggest spending bill of all time. It should require at least a topline digestion by those voting on it and asking their constituents to fund for decades to come. A LITTLE understanding is not a lot to ask..


I don't disagree at all. But how exactly would they have not had a chance to read it? The basic bill was around for several weeks and the pet projects were largely wrung out of it...

It was all grandstanding, which took place on both sides of the isle...

[Nickdfresh]

Ok--pretty funny I must admit....That would be change!

The past few weeks would make you wonder if that's the case though. You must admit that several mistakes have already been made, including the substantial number of failed/withdrawn cabinet nominations and the stimulus debacle.

Still way early though, the learning curve would be overwhelming for anyone. Very few will remember the early challenges in a year or so.

I wish him the best....Just lose the socialist agenda and I'm on board.

Well, Obama got this legislation through in near record time for a new president...

Also, he showed leadership when the Bush co. was floundering and malingering as Rome burned so to speak, even before he was President and did so hesitantly...

But the "Change" mantra being thrown back at him is getting a bit tiresome and becoming a cliche. And it is becoming little more than partisan nitpicking at this point. Obama never promised a revolution. He promised more transparency and he's already shown himself to have intrinsic leadership ability as opposed to Bush -who often seemed like a blundering despot than a leader of the "free world."

[Combat Ready]

Well, Obama got this legislation through in near record time for a new president...

Also, he showed leadership when the Bush co. was floundering and malingering as Rome burned so to speak, even before he was President and did so hesitantly...

But the "Change" mantra being thrown back at him is getting a bit tiresome and becoming a cliche. And it is becoming little more than partisan nitpicking at this point. Obama never promised a revolution. He promised more transparency and he's already shown himself to have intrinsic leadership ability as opposed to Bush -who often seemed like a blundering despot than a leader of the "free world."

True enough that the Prez got the legislation passed, although more dems opposed it than did repubs support...6 in the House vs 3 in the Senate.

I agree that Bush and company got fucking rolled by the dipshit Paulson and his banking buddies...Tim Geithner included. The original Tarp has already resulted in 78 billion unaccounted for. I'm pretty sure Obama supported the Tarp plan though---correct me if I'm mistaken.

Obama and the dems will be able to blame Bush and the Republicans for a short while--say 6 more months or so. At that point, they will own the economy 100%. Not totally fair, but that will be the perception of the folks.

As far as the change mantra boomerang getting tiresome already--get used to it...It's only just begun. That's politics 101...Each side blames the other.

It won't change until we demand it, by voting all of the finger pointing sons o' bitches out on their asses. Both parties have proven over the past 40 years or so that they pretty much suck.

[Nickdfresh]

Bush got "rolled" because he was an idiot savant that hired a lot shitheads, starting with Cheney...

[sadaist]

Bush got "rolled" because he was an idiot savant that hired a lot shitheads, starting with Cheney...

Obama seems to be heading down that same path. He is already surrounding himself with questionable people who are long time DC insiders with tarnished histories.

[Big Train]

I don't disagree at all. But how exactly would they have not had a chance to read it? The basic bill was around for several weeks and the pet projects were largely wrung out of it...

It was all grandstanding, which took place on both sides of the isle...

I agree, it is grandstanding. If this thing goes south, which it likely will, it will take with it a lot of votes, this time more likely democratic votes (TARP v. 1 killed the Republican votes).

However, I'd rather they delayed and read it all for a few weeks. Lived with it. Then signed it in when everyone had a real comfort level. A bill this big, should not have last minute changes. It should be finished and agreed upon. Then lived with for a week or two. This is no small decision and will leave debt upon our children.