What If...

[hideyoursheep]

What If...

The Soviet invasion was a success?

Would there been a 9/11?

Would they have continued to expand to other regions in the Middle East, or would it have stopped there?

Would the Russians be involved in a GWOT instead of the US?

Would the Wall have come down regardless?


Your thoughts, if any...

[FORD]

The Russian mob would control more of the international heroin market than the BCE.

[hideyoursheep]

It is their biggest cash crop. Much like marijuana in Kentucky.

[Redballjets88]

It is their biggest cash crop. Much like marijuana in Kentucky.

i thought it was California? Maybe both?

[GAR]

The Russians, like the Czars, were mainly interested in a warmwater port route thru the Land of the Lost to the ocean for trade.

[hideyoursheep]

The Russians, like the Czars, were mainly interested in a warmwater port route thru the Land of the Lost to the ocean for trade.:lmao:

[GAR]

I should specify which Russians: The Soviet regime, in particular.

http://www.atlapedia.com/online/map_images/physical/Afgan_etc_phy.jpg

The Soviets needed a warm-water port to the ocean, with an oil-rich Caspian deposit some say is one-third to almost twice as much oil in the Saudi Arabian peninsula, as soon as Russia makes a pipe to the sea we're all fucked.

We'll be a third-world power to them in a decade or two of that happening, doesn't matter how clever or skilled manufacturing base or how vast our food production to sell overseas grows, the liquidity of the universal fuel commodity negates everything.

In anticipation of your next slur: that's why. And like they say on MSNBC what you do when you have an elephant in the room, is you address it not ignore it. NObody's addressed it, the news just say shit like "Putin has balls of brass" "Putin's anger provoked" well, there's no question where his substantiated attitude stems from in my mind - it's an treasure chest under the Caspian Sea landlocked with nowhere to send it!

[FORD]

i thought it was California? Maybe both?

Only the northwestern corner of California. Humboldt & Mendocino counties, mostly.

Hell, it's even in the beer there......

http://www.cs.ucsb.edu/~sheltren/img/hemp.jpg :gulp:

[Nickdfresh]

The Soviets still would have lost the Cold War and al Qaida, to whatever extent it actually exists as a hierarchical organization, really began in response to the US establishing bases in the "holy land" of Saudi Arabia in response to Saddam trying to take our oil....

I think a better question would be: "what if the US began making synthetic gasoline at refineries Carter wanted to set up?"

Would we ever have given a fuck about the Middle East after that and would Bin Laden be building airports or something?

[GAR]

One acre of jatropha nut trees can produce 110 gallons of pressed oil that can go straight into a diesel engine.

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Most of last year, I was driving on used motor oil straight into the tank. Biodiesel however, burned better and I got more power from it, specifically a blend called B15

(point is you dont need a refinery, you need alot of desert acreage and juicer-presses)

[hideyoursheep]

The Soviets still would have lost the Cold War and al Qaida, to whatever extent it actually exists as a hierarchical organization, really began in response to the US establishing bases in the "holy land" of Saudi Arabia in response to Saddam trying to take our oil....

That much I know, but would Saddam have attempted to invade Kuwait with a strong Soviet, or by that time, Russian presence in the area that owned Afghanistan?

I'm not sure the Soviets wouldn't have changed their attitude about communism with or without being bogged down in Afghanistan. Gorby loosened the noose on the Warsaw Pact countries without much of an argument.


There were certain events that I really shouldn't discuss that may have led them to change their minds.

[Nickdfresh]

That much I know, but would Saddam have attempted to invade Kuwait with a strong Soviet, or by that time, Russian presence in the area that owned Afghanistan?

Yes! It was about oil and not much else...

Saddam wanted oil and many in the Middle East think that Kuwait is an illegitimate country. Of course, you could make a case that Iraq is an illegitimate country for the same reasons...

In any case, I think the Iraqis believed that the Kuwaitis were stealing their oil via lateral drilling or essentially tapping into oil fields in Iraqi territory by laying subterranean pipe. They may or may not have an argument...


I'm not sure the Soviets wouldn't have changed their attitude about communism with or without being bogged down in Afghanistan. Gorby loosened the noose on the Warsaw Pact countries without much of an argument.


There were certain events that I really shouldn't discuss that may have led them to change their minds.

I dunno. You can argue that Afghanistan hastened their downfall. But the failures in the Soviet system (such as the inability to meet their own food needs despite the fact that agricultural land was bountiful) were endemic at that point and had been taking place since its founding...

Afghanistan did expose the Red Army as something as a paper tiger that was still piss poor at logistics though, even 40+ years after they had similar difficulties in WWII...

[hideyoursheep]

Yes! It was about oil and not much else...

Saddam wanted oil and many in the Middle East think that Kuwait is an illegitimate country. Of course, you could make a case that Iraq is an illegitimate country for the same reasons...

In any case, I think the Iraqis believed that the Kuwaitis were stealing their oil via lateral drilling or essentially tapping into oil fields in Iraqi territory by laying subterranean pipe. They may or may not have an argument.

I was always uner the assumption that the "oil stealing" was just an excuse to invade, because the 8 year war drove Iraq bankrupt, and they viewed Kuwait as their CashLand.




I dunno. You can argue that Afghanistan hastened their downfall. But the failures in the Soviet system (such as the inability to meet their own food needs despite the fact that agricultural land was bountiful) were endemic at that point and had been taking place since its founding...

Afghanistan did expose the Red Army as something as a paper tiger that was still piss poor at logistics though, even 40+ years after they had similar difficulties in WWII...

That's an interesting take.

I'm not sure how many Soviet forces were committed to Afghanistan at any given time-it came off as sort of half-assed as far as how hard the Soviets could have hit them. Not sure as to why other Warsaw Pact forces weren't forced into action by Big Red Brother, either.


20 year anniversary of the Soviet withdraw today....Wow!

[Seshmeister]

One acre of jatropha nut trees can produce 110 gallons of pressed oil that can go straight into a diesel engine.


Just a few problems with this one GAR.

According to the UN it takes 1 worker per acre to harvest jatropha.

The average American uses 500 gallons of gas a year.

It takes 4 or 5 years for the tree to mature.

I could be wrong but I'm not sure you could afford to have 5 acres of land for 4 years with 5 people tending it just to get you a years worth of fuel.

[WACF]

If the Soviets had taken and held Afghanistan...would it of been possible without taking Pakistan also?

[lesfunk]

:lmao:

Originally Posted by GAR
The Russians, like the Czars, were mainly interested in a warmwater port route thru the Land of the Lost to the ocean for trade.

Just curious as to why you think that's funny. It's absolutely true.

[LoungeMachine]

I feel like I just walked in on a game of RISK

:gulp:


The Ukraine is weak.....

[GAR]

Who said "those who ignore history are doomed to three beaten tits"?

[FORD]

Who said "those who ignore history are doomed to three beaten tits"?

Eccentrica Golumbits, the triple breasted whore of Eroticon Six?

[hideyoursheep]

Originally Posted by GAR
The Russians, like the Czars, were mainly interested in a warmwater port route thru the Land of the Lost to the ocean for trade.

Just curious as to why you think that's funny. It's absolutely true.

Please explain..

[GAR]

Explain what - Siberia?

[Va Beach VH Fan]

By the way, if you haven't already, you should check out "Charlie Wilson's War", good flick about the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan...

[LoungeMachine]

EXCELLENT FLICK

If we'd only spent another $5M on some schools and infrastructure....

:gulp: