First Arrest Made in Foreclosure Civil Disobedience Program

[chefcraig]

Personally I feel crummy enough about the foreclosure disaster facing this country, yet this sort of protest (to me) looks to turn a bad situation ugly, and in fact quite dangerous, very quickly. http://www.easyfreesmileys.com/smileys/free-ashamed-smileys-721.gif (http://www.easyfreesmileys.com/)

Arrest Made in Home Foreclosure Civil Disobedience Program

Monday , February 23, 2009
By Joshua Rhett Miller

Police in Baltimore today made what is believed to be the first arrest in a civil disobedience program aimed at supporting homeowners who refuse to vacate their foreclosed homes.

An activist with ACORN — the Association of Community Organization for Reform Now — faces criminal charges after breaking into a home in southeast Baltimore on Thursday to protest the foreclosure crisis sweeping the country.

"This is our house now," ACORN member Louis Beverly reportedly said after cutting a lock with bolt cutters at the home.

Beverly will be charged with fourth-degree burglary, according to Anthony Guglielmi, a spokesman for the Baltimore Police. Attempts to reach his attorney, Justin Brown, were not immediately successful.

Donna Hanks, who owned the home since 2001, lost it in September when she couldn't make her $1,995 mortgage payments. It was not immediately clear whether Hanks re-entered her home last week, but she was not expected to be arrested, Guglielmi said.

Other police departments contacted by FOXNews.com said arrests would be made if an individual is determined to be residing at a foreclosed home illegally.

"If they're trespassing and it's not their property, absolutely, there'd by an arrest," a police source in Boston said. "If they were told to leave the property and they didn't, they'd be charged with disorderly conduct."

Pittsburgh Police Spokeswoman Diane Richard said charges would be filed against any individual found living in a foreclosed home, whether that individual had previously lived at the residence or not.

"If someone is court-ordered to vacate and they do not, it would be trespassing at that point," Richard said. "What exactly would be charged depends on the intensity of the violation. It could go all the way up to burglary, which is a felony."

The flood of foreclosures across the country has already led some law enforcement officials to alter how they handle evictions.

In Wayne County, Michigan, Sheriff Warren Evans suspended all foreclosure sales on Feb. 2 until a federal plan to combat foreclosures can be implemented, spokesman John Roach said. In Butler County, Ohio, Sheriff Richard Jones has reportedly ordered deputies not to evict residents who have no other housing options during the winter months. And in Cook County, Illinois, where a record 4,487 foreclosures occurred last year, Sheriff Thomas Dart appointed an attorney to review all eviction orders in October in order to protect individuals who continued to pay rent after their buildings were seized by banks.

Joe Cox, a community organizer for ACORN in Baltimore, said Monday's arrest was not a surprise.

"We definitely expected some kind of a response," Cox said. "We understand people have to do their jobs and we hope that they understand that we're doing this to highlight the issue."

Cox said he expects homesteading — refusing to vacate a foreclosed property — will become common as blame for the foreclosure crisis increasingly shifts from homeowners to financial corporations.

"This program is saying, 'We are not going,'" Cox said last week. "People say we're breaking the law, but we don't see how putting a person back in an abandoned property is harming anyone."

ACORN launched its "Home Savers" campaign in New York earlier this month and plans to expand the program to at least 22 other cities and three counties nationwide in the coming weeks. Participants like Beverly say they will refuse to move out of foreclosed homes or reclaim properties altogether until a comprehensive federal housing plan takes affect.

Cox said ACORN's homesteading program has attracted homeowners at risk of losing their homes from all socioeconomic backgrounds, from low-income Baltimore city neighborhoods to the more affluent Washington-area suburbs.

"We very much like what President Obama is doing with his foreclosure plan, but there's going to be a lot of people still left out," Cox said. "What we've been calling for nationally is a foreclosure moratorium so people have time to get help from a HUD-certified agency and start negotiating with lenders to get the banks off [their] back."

Attempts to reach Beverly on Monday were unsuccessful. In a Feb. 13 press release announcing the organization's plan to fight foreclosures, Beverly called for "civil disobedience" as a last resort.

"We need foreclosures to stop right now," Beverly said. "We need a moratorium to allow time to try to get loans modified so they can stay in their homes. The banks don't really want your house — it becomes a liability for them. With restructuring of the loan, everyone wins."

At least 500 volunteers have reportedly agreed to work as "home defenders" to employ non-violent tactics to block authorities from evicting homeowners. Other cities targeted by the campaign include Denver, Boston, Detroit, Pittsburgh, Dallas, Cleveland, Minneapolis and Orlando, Fla.

Founded in 1970, ACORN is a community-based, grassroots organization that primarily focuses on — among other social issues — health care, affordable housing and voter registration programs. Its large-scale voter registration drives most recently came under scrutiny during the 2008 presidential race, during which ACORN reportedly gathered more than 1.3 million voter registration forms in 21 states. Approximately 400,000 forms were reportedly rejected for duplications, incomplete forms and fraudulent applications.

President Obama, who was endorsed by ACORN, served as a local counsel for the organization in a 1995 voting rights lawsuit.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,498669,00.html

[LoungeMachine]

Breaking and Entering, and Trespassing, is NOT "civil disobedience"

ACORN is starting to annoy me.

But it begs the question, how far away are we from some sort of "debtor's prison"

This version of the next Great Republican Depression may be scarier than we fear.

:gulp:

[Sgt Schultz]

Breaking and Entering, and Trespassing, is NOT "civil disobedience"

ACORN is starting to annoy me.

But it begs the question, how far away are we from some sort of "debtor's prison"

This version of the next Great Republican Depression may be scarier than we fear.

:gulp:

I agree dude. If you can't pay then you are out - the house doesn't belong to you. When I was 16 years old and our house was foreclosed on there was never any question of "Is this fair?". We moved out into a crummy apartment and couldn't even afford a telephone. That's life. And we're supposed to feel sorry for a woman that had a $1,995.00 mortgage payment..?? Hello...she could easily find a cheaper house that had mortgage payments that are MUCH lower than 2K per month! And this is who WE are supposed to bail out? Bullshit.

Previous recessions have been worse than this one, with higher unemployment rates and much higher inflation. To say we are near a depression is way off. The worst one can say is that it is a mild recession.

[GAR]

This dumb bitch is even screwier than the one in Baltimore!

http://www.grapheine.com/bombaytv/index.php?module=see&lang=uk&code=39c4401e5589a2b5a8b1740c860c18ea

[Nickdfresh]

I agree dude. If you can't pay then you are out - the house doesn't belong to you. When I was 16 years old and our house was foreclosed on there was never any question of "Is this fair?". We moved out into a crummy apartment and couldn't even afford a telephone. That's life. And we're supposed to feel sorry for a woman that had a $1,995.00 mortgage payment..?? Hello...she could easily find a cheaper house that had mortgage payments that are MUCH lower than 2K per month! And this is who WE are supposed to bail out? Bullshit.

Previous recessions have been worse than this one, with higher unemployment rates and much higher inflation. To say we are near a depression is way off. The worst one can say is that it is a mild recession.

Mass Foreclosure is pretty stupid though. I don't agree with criminal activity, but at the same time, these banks are now entering the real estate market for extended periods and bad consequences...

It's not just bad for the the people, its also bad for the banks, the neighborhoods, towns, etc...

[chefcraig]

The pisser is, this has absolutely nothing to do with civil disobedience. This is not Rosa Parks refusing to give up a bus seat that she had already (completely) paid for. What it really is being the sort of "two wrongs make a right" type of boneheaded activism that is more devisive than it is uniting. It appeals to the baser instincts of a threatened society, and does nothing more than add fuel to an already well lit fire. Inviting the police to arrest you while breaking the law to get on tv and draw attention to a cause is one thing, yet what happens when a group of "concerned onlookers" decides to wade into the situation as the arrests are made? Phony civil disobedience very rapidly escalates to full out (and very real) civil disturbance. Anyone that was around a poor neighborhood or television set in South Florida during the McDuffie riots of 1980 (which started in Miami yet for some reason found like minded individuals "chipping in" all the way to West Palm Beach) or the Rodney King mess in L.A. knows what happens in these dire cirmcumstances. So what other gain than situational exploitation leading to mindless violence would a form of protest like this offer, and just who would believe that this would be a positive, let alone forward thinking idea, in the first place?

[swage33]

Man, so much pain is created on this planet by manipulating the ignorant. Housing is not a right...would be great if it was...if it was a right, you could bet your ass it wouldn't be the equivilant of a 2k/month mortgage. Would most likely be a shanty....but you would have a right to live there. Who would fucking want to?

[kwame k]

ACORN has become PETA. Stupid pranks and outrageous behavior for attention.

I agree, if you can't afford or pay for your house, you lose it. As distasteful as that sounds it's the way it is. With so many programs out there to help you finance your home to a lower payment, if you are able, you can keep your home.

Funny thing is.....wait a year or two and you probably will be able to buy your house for half of what you paid for it.

Homeownership is not a right.....it's the American Dream! Now we need a government that can get us back on track so Americans can realize that dream, not by over extending yourself with a gluttony of credit or buying a house you cannot afford but owning a home within your means. Now that's the American Dream or American Reality.

It used to be for our parents or grandparents.....you save, put a chunk money down, and stay in that house till you retire, all within your means.

Now the honest worker who loses their job, through no fault of their own, and loses everything.........Those people my heart goes out to.

[GAR]

This version of the next Great Republican Depression may be scarier than we fear.

:gulp:

It's all part of the Master Plan of spreading the wealth around!

[GAR]

Would most likely be a shanty....but you would have a right to live there. Who would fucking want to?

The Russians and the Chinks, who else would wanna live in a hovel?

[FORD]

The Chimp bailout should have gone to homeowners to pay off their mortgages, not to Wall Street whores to enable their further rape and pillaging of this country.

Then these people would have their homes, the banks would earn their money semi-honestly, and GAR wouldn't have another reason to spew bullshit from his library perch.

[mwsully]

I've always loved how you've been the champion for the little man. You have championed environmental issues, with just plain common sense and logic. You've shown you have a heart.

But I thought you'd have more sympathy for the homeowner as well as the ACORN woman -- maybe not so much the act but the intention. The society we live in is so fucking screwed up. I don't even know where to begin. (And I may not be able to truly express my thoughts clearly here).

I am tired of seeing the haves taking more and the have nots losing it all. It is happening right before our eyes. So the banks take the mortgage payments from the paycheck-to-paycheck worker, and when they can't pay, they keep the land. What a great deal for the banks.

Call me what you will, but I commend the ACORN person for having the balls to do SOMETHING, instead of us just sitting here discussing what should be done to help those in need or hoping something will be done.
And yes, our grandparents were able to save and buy a house at one time, but then I think the cost of living has risen a little since then (sarcasm).

Home prices are out of reach for most retail/service workers, which includes the majority of people. They will never realize their dream, unless major revolution happens.

There should be civil unrest; it is time for all the people who have been exploited, enslaved, conned, deceived, brainwashed to revolt against the elite, imperialist, very NON-democratic U.S. government.

Ok, I'll shut up now. :)

[bueno bob]

I've always loved how you've been the champion for the little man. You have championed environmental issues, with just plain common sense and logic. You've shown you have a heart.

But I thought you'd have more sympathy for the homeowner as well as the ACORN woman -- maybe not so much the act but the intention. The society we live in is so fucking screwed up. I don't even know where to begin. (And I may not be able to truly express my thoughts clearly here).

I am tired of seeing the haves taking more and the have nots losing it all. It is happening right before our eyes. So the banks take the mortgage payments from the paycheck-to-paycheck worker, and when they can't pay, they keep the land. What a great deal for the banks.

Call me what you will, but I commend the ACORN person for having the balls to do SOMETHING, instead of us just sitting here discussing what should be done to help those in need or hoping something will be done.
And yes, our grandparents were able to save and buy a house at one time, but then I think the cost of living has risen a little since then (sarcasm).

Home prices are out of reach for most retail/service workers, which includes the majority of people. They will never realize their dream, unless major revolution happens.

There should be civil unrest; it is time for all the people who have been exploited, enslaved, conned, deceived, brainwashed to revolt against the elite, imperialist, very NON-democratic U.S. government.

Ok, I'll shut up now. :)

I hear you, dude.

[Combat Ready]

Ok, I'll shut up now. :)

Thank you

[FORD]

I've always loved how you've been the champion for the little man. You have championed environmental issues, with just plain common sense and logic. You've shown you have a heart.

But I thought you'd have more sympathy for the homeowner as well as the ACORN woman -- maybe not so much the act but the intention. The society we live in is so fucking screwed up. I don't even know where to begin. (And I may not be able to truly express my thoughts clearly here).

I am tired of seeing the haves taking more and the have nots losing it all. It is happening right before our eyes. So the banks take the mortgage payments from the paycheck-to-paycheck worker, and when they can't pay, they keep the land. What a great deal for the banks.

Call me what you will, but I commend the ACORN person for having the balls to do SOMETHING, instead of us just sitting here discussing what should be done to help those in need or hoping something will be done.
And yes, our grandparents were able to save and buy a house at one time, but then I think the cost of living has risen a little since then (sarcasm).

Home prices are out of reach for most retail/service workers, which includes the majority of people. They will never realize their dream, unless major revolution happens.

There should be civil unrest; it is time for all the people who have been exploited, enslaved, conned, deceived, brainwashed to revolt against the elite, imperialist, very NON-democratic U.S. government.

Ok, I'll shut up now. :)

Believe me, I'm on the side of the homeowners, not the landlords or the predatory capitalist mortgage companies. As for ACORN, I'm sick and tired of them being the convenient Repuke scapegoat, because some bloated pedophile Oxycontin addict in Palm Beach blames them for putting a black man in the White House. ACORN is a worthy organization that has done many good things, and in a battle between them and the Wall Street Vampires, there's no question which side I'm on.

The side of the people.

[chefcraig]

I agree dude. If you can't pay then you are out - the house doesn't belong to you. When I was 16 years old and our house was foreclosed on there was never any question of "Is this fair?". We moved out into a crummy apartment and couldn't even afford a telephone. That's life. And we're supposed to feel sorry for a woman that had a $1,995.00 mortgage payment..?? Hello...she could easily find a cheaper house that had mortgage payments that are MUCH lower than 2K per month! And this is who WE are supposed to bail out? Bullshit.

Previous recessions have been worse than this one, with higher unemployment rates and much higher inflation. To say we are near a depression is way off. The worst one can say is that it is a mild recession.

While I agree with what you are stating here, I find the last line to be somewhat disingenuous. Yes, the fault of the foreclosure debacle has at it's heart the lack of fiscal responsibilty of people who assembled their finacial plans through whimsically unrealistic plate juggling in the belief that by mortgaging their future via credit they could defy the laws of gravity, yet the concept of labeling what is taking place in this country as a mild recession is simply absurd.

Unless of course the failed businesses, rampant unemployment, homeless folks, shuttered houses with overgrown lawns and surging crime rates unheralded and heretofore unseen in my state's history are merely a figment of my imagination. Then again, maybe the rest of the country is doing absolutely swell and what's taking place is merely a local problem.

[Nickdfresh]

Let me clarify my position. My problem with ACORN here is that they are attempting some outdated love-in solution to what most everyone agrees is a huge problem for EVERYBODY! The little guy is suffering, but the chickens are coming home to roost at the banks as well, mainly, because banks are having to go into the real estate business and they have no idea what they are doing and make terrible realtors/landlords. I think perhaps a better solution would be to advocate for those in default and to let them know their rights...

I believe that if someone has lost a job, they can now put off paying their mortgage for up to three years. But I'm not sure the confrontational stuff is the best solution here, but the banks foreclosing are sort of fucked too...

[kwame k]

Believe me I'm all for the working class.......I live in a state that has double digit unemployment and is in the top 5 for foreclosures. As much as bankers and the government have fucked us, we have to take responsibility for our own actions. We have spent or have extended ourselves with credit beyond any means of paying it back. We bought into the fallacy that homes were our piggy banks, myself included, and that home values would always go up.

Now the people who were taken advantage of by the predatory lenders or are stuck with their homes because they can't sell them for what they owe......I have total empathy for. The nightmare sernaro, here in Michigan is, people have to leave this state to find a job but they can't sell their home for what's owed on it. They can't afford to stay here, no jobs, but they can't afford to have a house here and in the new state they want to move to......WTF do you do? Fuck your credit up and let the house go back to the bank, try to rent it out or what? The people who have seconds or multiple home equity lines and used the equity to buy stuff.......well, I don't know what to say.

[kwame k]

NEW YORK (Reuters) – Prices of U.S. single-family homes plunged 18.5 percent in December from a year earlier as the monthly pace accelerated, according to a Standard & Poor's/Case-Shiller home price index released on Tuesday.

The S&P/Case Shiller composite index of 20 metropolitan areas fell 2.5 percent in December from November, compared with a 2.3 percent decline in the previous period, S&P said in a statement.

"There are very few, if any, pockets of turnaround that one can see in the data," David Blitzer, chairman of S&P's index committee, said in the statement. "Most of the nation appears to remain on a downward path."

In a separate index, home prices depreciated at an 18.2 percent pace in the fourth quarter from a year earlier, for the largest drop since the series began 21 years ago, it said. From the housing market peak in the second quarter of 2006, home prices have plummeted 26.7 percent, it said.

Home price depreciation is seen by many economists as a core driver of the financial crisis since many assets on bank balance sheets are tied to housing values. The government is taking steps to halt the foreclosures that are exacerbating price drops, but measures announced thus far have fostered only marginal confidence amongst economists.

President Barack Obama last week unveiled a plan to help up to five million borrowers refinance to lower cost loans, and also boost the number of mortgage modifications for homeowners headed toward foreclosure. At the current pace, the U.S. could see nearly six million new foreclosures in 2009-2012, according to Credit Suisse.

Despite government efforts, home prices may end up falling as much as 42 percent from their peak just to bring them back in line with rents, said Carl Riccadonna, senior U.S. economist at Deutsche Bank in New York. That number could be larger if unemployment continues to rise, he said.

"The government is taking bold steps to try to curb the problem with foreclosures, and I'm in favor of that, but I don't think the plan will be successful to the point that we would change that forecast," he said.

The S&P indexes are skewed lower by prices in some cities that saw the greatest appreciation during the housing boom. Phoenix recorded an annual decline of 34 percent, while property values in Las Vegas and San Francisco fell 33 percent and 31.2 percent, respectively, according to S&P.

Link (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090224/bs_nm/us_usa_economy_homes_index)

[kwame k]

Now if you look at those numbers........most people who had a conventional loan are only required to put 20% down.......the % varies depending on the lender and your debt to income ratio or credit rating. Housing values have fallen past the point of resale verses equity in your home. Add in closing costs and Realtor fees and you can't even sell your house for what you owe. This problem is the worst for people who didn't use their houses as piggy banks and did the right thing. These scenarios are the worst. You can't afford to keep your home and you can't afford to sell it. So, do the banks drop the amount you owe on your home to the value of your neighborhood? Even so, we are in a market where there are too many homes and not enough buyers. Remember, if you are in a neighborhood where there are a ton of foreclosures, at some point the banks are going to dump those houses for whatever they can.....meaning your property value will fall even more......I always said home values in any given neighborhood are only as much as the lowest priced home sold for........yes, that's not an iron clan rule but it stands up in a general statement.

[Sgt Schultz]

While I agree with what you are stating here, I find the last line to be somewhat disingenuous. Yes, the fault of the foreclosure debacle has at it's heart the lack of fiscal responsibilty of people who assembled their finacial plans through whimsically unrealistic plate juggling in the belief that by mortgaging their future via credit they could defy the laws of gravity, yet the concept of labeling what is taking place in this country as a mild recession is simply absurd.

Unless of course the failed businesses, rampant unemployment, homeless folks, shuttered houses with overgrown lawns and surging crime rates unheralded and heretofore unseen in my state's history are merely a figment of my imagination. Then again, maybe the rest of the country is doing absolutely swell and what's taking place is merely a local problem.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_L6pDyjqqsvY/SZAv9KBeV_I/AAAAAAAAZ8Q/3qfo7Z2-Aoo/s1600/gdp%2Brecessions.jpg

This is where things stand now. If the recession goes into the middle of the year it will be the longest since WWII, but the severity still not the worst.

Anecdotal evidence of hard times notwithstanding - yes it's a recession, but we've had worse, much worse.

[Sgt Schultz]

I am tired of seeing the haves taking more and the have nots losing it all. It is happening right before our eyes. So the banks take the mortgage payments from the paycheck-to-paycheck worker, and when they can't pay, they keep the land. What a great deal for the banks.

Call me what you will, but I commend the ACORN person for having the balls to do SOMETHING, instead of us just sitting here discussing what should be done to help those in need or hoping something will be done.
And yes, our grandparents were able to save and buy a house at one time, but then I think the cost of living has risen a little since then (sarcasm).

Home prices are out of reach for most retail/service workers, which includes the majority of people. They will never realize their dream, unless major revolution happens.

There should be civil unrest; it is time for all the people who have been exploited, enslaved, conned, deceived, brainwashed to revolt against the elite, imperialist, very NON-democratic U.S. government.

Ok, I'll shut up now. :)

Did you even read the article? She had a $2,000 mortgage (per month)!

A quick search for homes just for ReMax in Baltimore MD, for homes between $125K and $150K resulted in over 250 listings. 20% down on a $150K home @ 5.5% = a monthly payment of $681.00. If you can't smell the bullshit then perhaps a visit to your local evil "have" physician is in order. There is a glut of housing at low prices and low interest rates. And if you can't afford a house, then rent - period.

A bank has every right to kick out someone who is not paying because the bank owns the home. Want to get rid of evil bankers? Fine, then you can try to buy a home for it's full value, good luck with that.

Nothing has changed from our grandparents time. Want to live in a house? Then save enough for the downpayment, if you can't you either rent or get a mortgage that has a higher interest rate and/or others fees. Still can't find a house you can afford? Move. Commute. Live in a cheaper home.


Even Ex-Commies and current Commies are saying;

“In the 20th century, the Soviet Union made the state's role absolute. In the long run, this made the Soviet economy totally uncompetitive. This lesson cost us dearly. I am sure nobody wants to see it repeated."

Russian Prime Minister Vladamir Putin
Opening ceremony of the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland
January 28, 2009

The Chinese communist government issued another warning to Democrats today-- "Increased borrowing by the United States to fund its massive stimulus package could cause the depreciation of U.S. dollar-denominated assets."

Let's get a clue people.

[Nickdfresh]

Sgt. Schultz, communist sympathizer and admirer of autocratic regimes...

Why do you hate America and Americans?

[LoungeMachine]

. Want to get rid of evil bankers? Fine, then you can try to buy a home for it's full value, good luck with that.

.

Want to get rid of evil bankers?

How about we NOT bail them out when they lose billions?

:gulp:

[swage33]

I don't think anyone should be bailed out of this mess. What really would happen if the Obama regime did nothing? No sarcasm there, an honest question.

[Satan]

I read the other day a prediction that Citibank and Bank of America are both basically toast.

These two banks are, short of the BCE, two of the biggest collections of thieves on the entire planet. If they no longer existed to commit usury against millions of people and make their lives a living Hell with continuous phone harassment and credit rating slander, the entire planet would breathe a collective sigh of relief.

And if the bastards responsible lost everything and had to suffer the fate they had forced onto so many others, all the better.

I know these assholes will face justice when they arrive at my doorstep. But just, wouldn't you mortals like to have a shot at 'em?

[Nickdfresh]

I don't think anyone should be bailed out of this mess. What really would happen if the Obama regime did nothing? No sarcasm there, an honest question.

According to some, as long as the housing situation in this country isn't ironed out and "zombie" banks continue to not lend, we're fucked...

[Nickdfresh]

I read the other day a prediction that Citibank and Bank of America are both basically toast.

These two banks are, short of the BCE, two of the biggest collections of thieves on the entire planet. If they no longer existed to commit usury against millions of people and make their lives a living Hell with continuous phone harassment and credit rating slander, the entire planet would breathe a collective sigh of relief.

And if the bastards responsible lost everything and had to suffer the fate they had forced onto so many others, all the better.

I know these assholes will face justice when they arrive at my doorstep. But just, wouldn't you mortals like to have a shot at 'em?

Or Bank of America might be very aptly named in a few months. Because it might fucking be the Bank owned by ALL Americans!

[kwame k]

It looks like that's the direction it's going......Citibank needs more money.......

Citigroup has approached federal regulators about additional steps the government can take to help the still-struggling bank, including increasing its ownership of the company, according to people familiar with the discussions. They spoke on condition of anonymity because they are not authorized to speak on behalf of the government or the company. A Citigroup spokesman has declined to comment on that issue.
Link (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090225/ap_on_bi_ge/citigroup_customers_1)



I've also heard there is talks of the government taking a controlling interest or percentage of ownership real soon.........

[Combat Ready]

Want to get rid of evil bankers?

How about we NOT bail them out when they lose billions?

:gulp:

Hell yes to that!

[Sgt Schultz]

Want to get rid of evil bankers?

How about we NOT bail them out when they lose billions?

:gulp:

I agree. We should NOT have bailed out the banks. I disagree with Bush's over-spending. The war funding was necessary but then he tried to placate the Kennedys and other big tax n spend liberals in Congress by agreeing to spend way too much on other programs in the idiotic hope that if he did so Democrats would not hate him as much. That worked out great.

[LoungeMachine]

but then he tried to placate the Kennedys and other big tax n spend liberals in Congress by agreeing to spend way too much on other programs



.

:lol:


Nice try.

[mwsully]

You're right, Schultz, about the homeowner. She probably could have easily found an apartment or a cheaper house. Sure, but...

My main point in my response is that, for the most part, the elite in our country can make mistakes or fail in anything and someone will come bail them out, and the rationale for doing so is anything but the truth. But anybody else is subject to ridicule, financial hardship and hopelessness.

And Schultz, there is no way in hell our grandparents had the same income:housing cost ratio as today! Just ask the millions of minimum wage workers who constantly live day-to-day trying to stay afloat. And yes, you could say to that person (in a Sean Hannity sort of way) to "stop whining and get a better job" or "stop whining and go back to school and then get a better job". But the reality is that many people can't move up the wage ladder for whatever reason, good or bad.

[Andy Taylor]

I'd like to see Sean Hannity flayed publically, made to run down the streets where he will be hunted down over a period of a few hours, then eventually shot.

[scamper]

Want to get rid of evil bankers?

How about we NOT bail them out when they lose billions?

:gulp:

Don't borrow money!!!!!!!!

[hideyoursheep]

Man, so much pain is created on this planet by manipulating the ignorant. Housing is not a right...would be great if it was...if it was a right, you could bet your ass it wouldn't be the equivilant of a 2k/month mortgage. Would most likely be a shanty....but you would have a right to live there. Who would fucking want to?

I'm going to give the Baltimore woman the benefit of the doubt and say she, at some point, was able to make the note payment.

Now she can't, and she can't sell, either.

So, what can she do?

[hideyoursheep]

... In Butler County, Ohio, Sheriff Richard Jones has reportedly ordered deputies not to evict residents who have no other housing options during the winter months.


Ha!

TRANSLATION: The jails are full.

Mother fuck Butler Co.:fufu:

[Sgt Schultz]

You're right, Schultz, about the homeowner. She probably could have easily found an apartment or a cheaper house. Sure, but...

My main point in my response is that, for the most part, the elite in our country can make mistakes or fail in anything and someone will come bail them out, and the rationale for doing so is anything but the truth. But anybody else is subject to ridicule, financial hardship and hopelessness.

And Schultz, there is no way in hell our grandparents had the same income:housing cost ratio as today! Just ask the millions of minimum wage workers who constantly live day-to-day trying to stay afloat. And yes, you could say to that person (in a Sean Hannity sort of way) to "stop whining and get a better job" or "stop whining and go back to school and then get a better job". But the reality is that many people can't move up the wage ladder for whatever reason, good or bad.

I was not - and am not - in favor of the bailouts for the big banks.

And at the same time I am also not in favor of it for homeowners. The whole "minimum wage" thing is a myth. The majority of minimum wage earners are either teenagers/students or people who are making that wage only temporarily.

http://philthompson.net/images/minimumwage.jpg


"Minimum wage workers tend to be young. About half of workers earning $5.15 or less were under age 25, and about one-fourth of workers earning at or below the minimum wage were age 16-19. Among employed teenagers, about 8 percent earned $5.15 or less. About 1 percent of workers age 25 and over earned the minimum wage or less. Among those age 65 and over, the proportion was about 2 percent." link (http://cafehayek.typepad.com/hayek/2008/01/what-sets-wages.html)

"hourly-paid workers (76.5 million) are only about half of the total labor force of 146 million. As a result, minimum wage workers represent less than 1.2% of all workers. In other words, only about 1 out of every 86 American workers receives the minimum wage." link (http://blog.philthompson.net/post/24483871)

So if you are making minimum wage no, there is little chance you can afford to have a house.

But I will have to take the mean & nasty "Hannity" line and say that yes - if someone really wants to - anyone (any race or socioeconomic class) can "move up the ladder" by going to school and earning a degree that will pay better.

I came from a poor home (as I related above when I was 16 the bank foreclosed on our house) but was able to go to school because I worked 1 and sometimes 2 part time jobs, got a little grant money and also took out student loans. It took me 10 years to pay off the loans and I had to rent. After I paid them off I bought a modest home with the money I saved for a down payment. The loan was a fixed 30 year mortgage.

I'm sorry, but there is no way I or anyone else should be feeling sorry for the "Beverlys" of the world. She'll survive a foreclosure and having to rent an apartment. The rest of US who worked had and played by the rules should not have to now also pay OTHER people's mortgages.

[WACF]

An observation from where I live.

People just don't wanna work their way up anymore...

I worked my way up into a nice home...rented...bought small....built equity and bought bigger.

It took over 10 years....I know guys that bought a 1000 sq foot older house...paid it off in 20 and used the equity to buy something new/newer and much bigger.

The newer guys I work with now....15 years younger than me...don't wanna do it that way.

They wanna buy big now...have it all....and they all bitch about how big the mortgage is.

...and this is before they even add kids to the equation!

You throw a slow down in the market...a few week lay-off and these guys are freaking out.

It is amazing to watch...

Another thing....for the last 15 years you just do not see many smaller starter homes getting built in the new areas like you used to.

All bigger nice homes...with the price tag that goes with it.

To a large degree....people are doing it to themselves.

You can not control things like plants shutting down...but for alot of people they just do not seem to leave any wiggle room for when things get slow.

[Sgt Schultz]

[QUOTE=WACF;1327666]An observation from where I live.

People just don't wanna work their way up anymore...

I worked my way up into a nice home...rented...bought small....built equity and bought bigger.

It took over 10 years....I know guys that bought a 1000 sq foot older house...paid it off in 20 and used the equity to buy something new/newer and much bigger.

The newer guys I work with now....15 years younger than me...don't wanna do it that way.

They wanna buy big now...have it all....and they all bitch about how big the mortgage is.

...and this is before they even add kids to the equation!

You throw a slow down in the market...a few week lay-off and these guys are freaking out.

It is amazing to watch...QUOTE]

Amen brutha. Also, we were talking about what I Grandparents did - my and my wife's grandparents lived in TINY homes (one of which was a Sears home you could mail order) and they were happy to live in them from the 1940s until they died just a few years ago. Know many people that would do that now?