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Nitro Express
03-17-2009, 01:07 PM
Years ago when I was taking finance classes at The University of Washington one of my professors said derivatives would be a huge time bomb that would wreak the world economy. This was 1989 when I was finishing up my degree in Finance and International Marketing. Now the time bomb has exploded.



More must read financial analysis from DK Matai, Chairman of the ACTA Open.
The Invisible One Quadrillion Dollar Equation — Asymmetric Leverage and Systemic Risk
According to various distinguished sources including the Bank for International Settlements (BIS) in Basel, Switzerland — the central bankers’ bank — the amount of outstanding derivatives worldwide as of December 2007 crossed USD 1.144 Quadrillion, ie, USD 1,144 Trillion. The main categories of the USD 1.144 Quadrillion derivatives market were the following:
1. Listed credit derivatives stood at USD 548 trillion;
2. The Over-The-Counter (OTC) derivatives stood in notional or face value at USD 596 trillion and included:
a. Interest Rate Derivatives at about USD 393+ trillion;
b. Credit Default Swaps at about USD 58+ trillion;
c. Foreign Exchange Derivatives at about USD 56+ trillion;
d. Commodity Derivatives at about USD 9 trillion;
e. Equity Linked Derivatives at about USD 8.5 trillion; and
f. Unallocated Derivatives at about USD 71+ trillion.
Quadrillion? That is a number only super computing engineers and astronomers used to use, not economists and bankers! For example, the North star is “just” a couple of quadrillion miles away, ie, a few thousand trillion miles. The new “Roadrunner” supercomputer built by IBM for the US Department of Energy’s Los Alamos National Laboratory has achieved a peak performance of 1.026 Peta Flop per second — becoming the first supercomputer ever to reach this milestone. One Quadrillion Floating Point Operations (Flops) per second is 1 Peta Flop/s, ie, 1,000 Trillion Flops per second. It is estimated that all the data found on all the websites and stored on computers across the world totals more than One Exa byte of memory, ie, 1,000 Quadrillion bytes of data.
Whilst outstanding derivatives are notional amounts until they are crystallised, actual exposure is measured by the net credit equivalent. This is normally a lower figure unless many variables plot a locus in the wrong direction simultaneously. This could be because of catastrophic unpredictable events, ie, “Black Swans”, such as cascades of bankruptcies and nationalisations, when the net exposure can balloon and become considerably larger or indeed because some extremely dislocating geo-political or geo-physical events take place simultaneously. Also, the notional value becomes real value when either counterparty to the OTC derivative goes bankrupt. This means that no large OTC derivative house can be allowed to go broke without falling into the arms of another. Whatever funds within reason are required to rescue failing international investment banks, deposit banks and financial entities ought to be provided on a case by case basis. This is the asymmetric nature of derivatives and here lies the potential for systemic risk to the global economic system and financial markets if nothing is done.
Let us think about the invisible USD 1.144 quadrillion equation with black swan variables — ie, 1,144 trillion dollars in terms of outstanding derivatives, global Gross Domestic Product (GDP), real estate, world stock and bond markets coupled with unknown unknowns or “Black Swans”. What would be the relative positioning of USD 1.144 quadrillion for outstanding derivatives, ie, what is their scale:
1. The entire GDP of the US is about USD 14 trillion.
2. The entire US money supply is also about USD 15 trillion.
3. The GDP of the entire world is USD 50 trillion. USD 1,144 trillion is 22 times the GDP of the whole world.
4. The real estate of the entire world is valued at about USD 75 trillion.
5. The world stock and bond markets are valued at about USD 100 trillion.
6. The big banks alone own about USD 140 trillion in derivatives.
7. Bear Stearns had USD 13+ trillion in derivatives and went bankrupt in March. Freddie Mac, Fannie Mae, Lehman Brothers and AIG have all ‘collapsed’ because of complex securities and derivatives exposures in September.
8. The population of the whole planet is about 6 billion people. So the derivatives market alone represents about USD 190,000 per person on the planet.
The Impact of Derivatives
1. Derivatives are securities whose value depends on the underlying value of other basic securities and associated risks. Derivatives have exploded in use over the past two decades. We cannot even properly define many classes of derivatives because they are highly complex instruments and come in many shapes, sizes, colours and flavours and display different characteristics under different market conditions.
2. Derivatives are unregulated, not traded on any public exchange, without universal standards, dealt with by private agreement, not transparent, have no open bid/ask market, are unguaranteed, have no central clearing house, and are just not really tangible.
3. Derivatives include such well known instruments as futures and options which are actively traded on numerous exchanges as well as numerous over-the-counter instruments such as interest rate swaps, forward contracts in foreign exchange and interest rates, and various commodity and equity instruments.
4. Everyone from the large financial institutions, governments, corporations, mutual and pension funds, to hedge funds, and large and small speculators, uses derivatives. However, they have never existed in history with the overarching, exorbitant scale that they now do.

5. Derivatives are unravelling at a fast rate with the start of the “Great Unwind” of the global credit markets which began in July 2007 and particularly after the collapse of Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae in September this year.
6. When derivatives unravel significantly the entire world economy would be at peril, given the relatively smaller scale of the world economy by comparison.
7. The derivatives market collapse could make the housing and stock market collapses look incidental.
Three Historical Examples
1. The so-called rogue trader Nick Leeson who made a huge derivatives bet on the direction of the Japanese Nikkei index brought on the collapse of Barings Bank in 1995.
2. The collapse of Long Term Capital Management (LTCM), a hedge fund that had a former derivatives and bond dealer from Salomon Brothers and two Nobel Prize winners in Economics as principals, collapsed because of huge leveraged bets in currencies and bonds in 1998.
3. Finally, a lot of the problems of Enron in 2000 were brought on by leveraged derivatives and using derivatives to hide problems on the balance sheet.
The Pitfall
The single conceptual pitfall at the basis of the disorderly growth of the global derivatives market is the postulate of hedging and netting, which lies at the basis of each model and of the whole regulatory environment hyper structure. Perfect hedges and perfect netting require functioning markets. When one or more markets become dysfunctional, the whole deck of cards could collapse swiftly. To hope, as US Treasury Secretary Mr Henry Paulson does, that an accounting ruse such as transferring liabilities, however priced, from a private to a public agent will restore the functionality of markets implies a drastic jump in logic. Markets function only when:
1. There is a price level at which demand meets supply; and more importantly when
2. Both sides believe in each other’s capacity to deliver.
Satisfying criterion 1. without satisfying criterion 2. which is essentially about trust, gets one nowhere in the long term, although in the short term, the markets may demonstrate momentary relief and euphoria.
Conclusion
In the context of the USD 700 billion rescue plan — still being finalised in Washington, DC — the following is worth considering step by step. Decision makers are rightly concerned about alleviating immediate pressure points in the global financial system, such as, the mortgage crisis, decline in consumer spending and the looming loss of confidence in financial institutions. However, whilst these problems are grave, they are acting as a catalyst to another more massive challenge which may have to be tackled across many nation states simultaneously. As money flows slow down sharply, confidence levels would decline across the globe, and trust would be broken asymmetrically, ie, the time taken to repair it would be much longer. Unless there is government action in concert, this could ignite a chain-reaction which would swiftly purge trillions and trillions of dollars in over-leveraged risky bets. Within the context of over-leverage, the biggest problem of all is to do with “Derivatives”, of which CDSs are a minor subset. Warren Buffett has said the derivatives neutron bomb has the potential to destroy the entire world economy, and is a “disaster waiting to happen.” He has also referred to derivatives as Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMD). Counting one dollar per second, it would take 32 million years to count to one Quadrillion. The numbers we are dealing with are absolutely astronomical and from the realms of super computing we have stepped into global economics. There is a sense of no sustainability and lack of longevity in the “Invisible One Quadrillion Dollar Equation” of the derivatives market especially with attendant Black Swan variables causing multiple implosions amongst financial institutions and counterparties! The only way out, albeit painful, is via discretionary case-by-case government intervention on an unprecedented scale. Securing the savings and assets of ordinary citizens ought to be the number one concern in directing such policy.

Kristy
03-17-2009, 01:23 PM
1. Derivatives are securities whose value depends on the underlying value of other basic securities and associated risks. Derivatives have exploded in use over the past two decades. We cannot even properly define many classes of derivatives because they are highly complex instruments and come in many shapes, sizes, colors and flavors and display different characteristics under different market conditions.

6. When derivatives unravel significantly the entire world economy would be at peril, given the relatively smaller scale of the world economy by comparison.


Well those two alone clear it up for me. :umm:

FORD
03-17-2009, 01:51 PM
Years ago when I was taking finance classes at The University of Washington one of my professors said derivatives would be a huge time bomb that would wreak the world economy. This was 1989 when I was finishing up my degree in Finance and International Marketing. Now the time bomb has exploded.


Maybe you should get in touch with him? Or better yet, maybe the President should?

Hell, he's already hired Gary Locke, Ron Sims, and Gil Kerlikowske. Why not one more from Team Seattle?

Nitro Express
03-17-2009, 02:08 PM
Anyone who knows basic upper level finance which is any graduate from a good business school knows what derivatives are. They used to be illegal because people knew the risk they posed. Obama is just a puppet for the international banking elite like George Soros who are trying to use economic crises as an excuse to consolidate their control over the worlds assets. We haven't had a good president in office since JFK who tried to break the power of the central banks.

People need to get over the whole Right/Left, Republican/Democrat thing. It's become showbiz where both sides are like professional wrestlers who call each other nasty names and then go out to dinner together. It's been a rigged game for years. Any Democrat or Republican that is good for the American people and refuse the bankers never get the mainstream media coverage or funding.

The world economy is flying apart and the only thing that can be done to fix it is to bring the Federal Reserve under US Treasury control and stop the fiat currency scam. Then the Federal Govt. needs to take control of the large banks because they are all bankrupt. The only thing to do with the derivatives now is to wipe them out. Nobody is paying off this debt and if the bankers keep control of the system they will just use the debt to exploit the world. Bono had it right. We not only need third world debt relief we need worldwide debt relief.

The world is being fucked like a third world country by the same fuckers who have fucked the third world. They have plans to use Obama's popularity to fuck Africa more in the name of humanitarian aid when it's really about taking over assets. Anyone in Africa with half a brain will tell you this.

The game is the same and we have been circling the drain for years. We need banking regulations. They made derivatives illegal in 1936. The deregulation started with Reagan and hit critical mass under Bill Clinton. Then the Bush years had a heyday and Obama now is saddling the tax payer with the losses. Nice.

Nitro Express
03-17-2009, 02:16 PM
The deregulating politicians like Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush Jr. created this mess. It was a mess Obama inherited but his policies two months in have been a disaster and only reward the crooks who fucked us in the first place.

Wall Street over leveraged itself because the speculators win big with derivatives but can lose big. The gimmick is to pass losses onto the taxpayer so to the fat cats, there is no loss so let's gamble big.

This is what has happened. The dumb politicians opened the candy store so the kids could go crazy. They went crazy to a tune of $1.144 Quadrillion. A amount of candy that would even blow Willie Wonka and Carl Sagan's mind.

Nitro Express
03-17-2009, 02:21 PM
Why is the AIG money going offshore? The crooks are buying up real assets with that money that will keep their value. Then once the economy tanks they come in and buy everything up with the money we gave them. Then they can fuck us around because the control everything including the govt. once they get full control of that and we have fascism. We are being fucked with our own money. It's cleverly evil.

Nitro Express
03-17-2009, 02:34 PM
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The elite banking oligarchy will give you a job.

ELVIS
03-17-2009, 02:52 PM
So I imagine this is why a large portion of the bank bailouts from American taxpayers have gone to Germany’s Deutsche Bank, the Swiss UBS and England’s Barclays...among others...

So what's the alternative? How about writing off all derivitives and making them illegal once again, because it's all based on speculation, as well as Hedge Funds and the like...

So is this the cause of AIG failing by selling cresit insurance to holders of these speculative stocks which for all practical purposes are imaginary ??


:elvis:

ELVIS
03-17-2009, 02:53 PM
Why is the AIG money going offshore? The crooks are buying up real assets with that money that will keep their value. Then once the economy tanks they come in and buy everything up with the money we gave them. Then they can fuck us around because the control everything including the govt. once they get full control of that and we have fascism. We are being fucked with our own money. It's cleverly evil.

That ball is already rolling, my friend...

sadaist
03-17-2009, 03:03 PM
Quadrillion

Now you're just making words up :tongue0011: But I don't think we need to worry until we get to over one Bajillion.

I personally like the term Krillion. But some might mistake that for a shit load of krill.

http://www.msrc.sunysb.edu/%7Ewarren/linkes_06/linkes_06_images/krill_by_lara.jpg

Nitro Express
03-17-2009, 03:04 PM
So I imagine this is why a large portion of the bank bailouts from American taxpayers have gone to Germany’s Deutsche Bank, the Swiss UBS and England’s Barclays...among others...

So what's the alternative? How about writing off all derivitives and making them illegal once again, because it's all based on speculation, as well as Hedge Funds and the like...

So is this the cause of AIG failing by selling cresit insurance to holders of these speculative stocks which for all practical purposes are imaginary ??


:elvis:

You got it. The bailout was nothing more than a bank robbery. None of the little people will see that money and the banks are still technically unsolvent. It's all jive talk. This bank robbery was pushed on us because there was a big emergency and the law makers signed it into law without even reading the thing.

They took the money offshore and saddled us the taxpayer with the debt. It was a big golden parachute and these bankers have enough political contacts and clout they think they can get away with this shit.

A derivative is a mathmatical property that was discovered by physisists and applied to finance. If anything goes up or down in value within a certain margin the gains can be exponential. If it goes outside of those margins the formula doesn't work and huge loses are the result. It gets technical quick but that is basically how derivatives work. Basically you risk huge losses for huge gains and a derivative can be on anything that can be speculated on. You could have a derivative on how many cigarettes a day Eddie Van Halen smokes. If you bet he will smoke three more than his usual 60 cigarettes a day you will make money but if Eddie quits smoking, you lose big time. Most people would assume Eddie smoking is a safe bet and dump a ton into that derivative.

Nitro Express
03-17-2009, 03:12 PM
Now you're just making words up :tongue0011: But I don't think we need to worry until we get to over one Bajillion.

I personally like the term Krillion. But some might mistake that for a shit load of krill.

http://www.msrc.sunysb.edu/%7Ewarren/linkes_06/linkes_06_images/krill_by_lara.jpg

Quadrillion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadrillion)

Nope it's a real number but we never use it because it's so HUGE! The point of the article is to show the amount of crazy debt the world banking system is in and how bailouts are just a joke. You can't bail out 1.144 quadrillion dollars of fucking debt. So socking the taxpayer with the debt is dumb because the debt is a lot bigger than all the world's assets and even if we could buy it all we would have communism because the govt. now would own everything and if the bankers keep stealing the our bailout money and using that to buy us up cheap we have fascism. Neither good.

So we wipe it all out because it's bullshit that should have never happened in the first place and start the fuck over.

LoungeMachine
03-17-2009, 03:17 PM
I'll say it again....

IF A CORPORATION IS "TOO BIG TO FAIL" THEN IT IS TOO BIG TO EXIST

Break up AIG, liquidate the junk, fire the execs, restructure the company, salvage the assets....

:gulp:

ELVIS
03-17-2009, 03:22 PM
Has any polititian actually mentioned just writing off all derivitives?

Is it possible, or do these people have too much clout ??

I mean, people, bankers, whatever should be going to prison for some of this bullshit...

But I still lean to the idea that this has all been planned out decades ago and now it's strike time...

Or revoultion time...

I think the government and the rest of the world underestimates the American people...

I mean, i'll always have guns whether or not OH-baahaahaahaahma bands them, and I think he will...


:elvis:

Nitro Express
03-17-2009, 03:24 PM
In short, we learned a hard lesson when the world gets greedy and throws caution to the wind. The clever international, globalist banking elite played the greed like Eddie Van Halen playing Mean Streets on the Fair Warning album. The result will be mean streets full of fucked over and angry people looking for a savior or someone to bash their brains in. The bankers will try and control this rable laughing and cackling like its a game to them as they sit safely in some luxery retreat. I mean these guys are like James Bond villans. They will use racial and class wars to further their agenda which is pretty wild and grand on a Nazi type scale. Read the words of David Rockefeller who big hero was Chairman Mao himself. They are wealthy fruitcakes who enjoy fucking things over. It's fun for them.

Nitro Express
03-17-2009, 03:26 PM
Sadly many good people will lose their money because the lawmakers got duped and the public let it happen. We had laws and regulations to keep this from happening and checks and balances but we as a public took the eye off the ball and got fucked.

Nitro Express
03-17-2009, 03:31 PM
You have to have banking regulation. Unchecked capatalism becomes a tyranny in the end because all the wealth ends up in too few hands and they buy the world. This is where we are going if we don't clamp down. Capatalism is the best system we have but unchecked and unregulated it becomes a fucking monster that is every bit as bad as Marxism Communism.

ELVIS
03-17-2009, 03:39 PM
I agree with that...

FORD
03-17-2009, 03:46 PM
You have to have banking regulation. Unchecked capatalism becomes a tyranny in the end because all the wealth ends up in too few hands and they buy the world. This is where we are going if we don't clamp down. Capatalism is the best system we have but unchecked and unregulated it becomes a fucking monster that is every bit as bad as Marxism Communism.

Other than the fact that actual Marxist Communism has never been tried - and due to human greed, probably never will be - I pretty much agree with your statement. Unregulated capitalism gave us the first Great Depression, and it appears to be giving us the second. :(

Time to roll back all the regulations to where they were before 1980. Tax brackets too.

Kristy
03-17-2009, 04:01 PM
Break up AIG, liquidate the junk, fire the execs, restructure the company, salvage the assets....

Never happen. The corruption is larger than AIG itself.

ELVIS
03-17-2009, 04:07 PM
That may be true, but real revolution in this country is a definate possibility and count me in!

The first revolution was started by only four percent of the population and they won, so don't understimate the American people when they get desperate...


:elvis:

LoungeMachine
03-17-2009, 04:07 PM
You have to have banking regulation. Unchecked capatalism becomes a tyranny in the end because all the wealth ends up in too few hands and they buy the world. This is where we are going if we don't clamp down. Capatalism is the best system we have but unchecked and unregulated it becomes a fucking monster that is every bit as bad as Marxism Communism.

And just to add......

I guess there really were no "free markets"

:gulp:

Nitro Express
03-17-2009, 11:09 PM
Has any polititian actually mentioned just writing off all derivitives?

Is it possible, or do these people have too much clout ??

I mean, people, bankers, whatever should be going to prison for some of this bullshit...

But I still lean to the idea that this has all been planned out decades ago and now it's strike time...

Or revoultion time...

I think the government and the rest of the world underestimates the American people...

I mean, i'll always have guns whether or not OH-baahaahaahaahma bands them, and I think he will...


:elvis:

Ron Paul has mentioned writing the derivatives off. He is pushing a bill to have the Federal Reserve audited. They are taking trillions of dollars and not telling Congress what they are doing with them. The thing too is all the assets are mixed up like a big salad and the books have been cooked. Nobody knows what is what. It would take too long to sort the mess out and by the time we did it would be too late. The only thing to do is wipe the computers clean and start over.

ELVIS
03-17-2009, 11:15 PM
Exactly...

Dude, I work mostly only weekends and watch C-Span all day and listen to talk radio...

I voted for Ron Paul...

But I don't think anyone knows what to do about this except Paul, which is write it off and start with a clean slate...

Otherwise, taxpayers are going to be conned into bailing this out as well...


:elvis:

Nitro Express
03-17-2009, 11:18 PM
The thing is the average American loses either way. Bailing out the bankers just increases the tax load and only invites a tax rebellion and possible civil war later. It also empowers the bankers to abuse us more.

Wiping out the derivatives does not bring investors money back but in a real sense, it's gone and lost. But what it does do is screw the bankers. They have too much power over our Federal Govt. anyways. Hopefully, we can avoid blood shed and the dismantling of our country by killing the derivatives and then carefully issuing loans to businesses that will create real jobs and products instead of more banking tricks and bullshit.

Nitro Express
03-17-2009, 11:24 PM
Job loses will be at depression levels and Obama is increasing the tax load. He can only create more govt. jobs which will need more tax dollars to fund. Where is he going to get the money? Print more money and tax more. The result will be hyperinflation and tax revolts. Then he will have to declare martial law to try and keep the peace.

The danger here is we can lose everything and become a police state. Whether he got duped or is in cahoots with the bankers is yet to be seen but his policy is disaster. If he keeps going the states will start to declare soverency and we are back to a kind of Civil War thing going but inside of a huge global depression.

Not only that the rest of the world will be going unstable and it will start wars and rebellions all over the place. It's not pretty.

Nitro Express
03-17-2009, 11:28 PM
In the caos every gang of thugs will be trying to take advantage of the situation. Places like California will either have Federal troops clamping down to keep the peace or anarchy in the streets with thugs flexing their muscle to take advantage of the situation.

It's a dictators dream. If I was Hitler, I would be getting a hard on over it all.

Seshmeister
03-17-2009, 11:32 PM
A quadrillion pennies beside the Sears Tower and Empire State

http://newsprism.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/one-quadrillion-pennies.jpg

Nitro Express
03-17-2009, 11:33 PM
The big international bankers can afford to buy politicians and even finance their own armies. I'm worried they will dupe us into accepting an international currency and the so-called peace and security that comes with it. What it will be is a consolidation of power and we will become debtors slaves to these greedy bastards. We are going to see just how smart Americans really are here quick. All sorts of snake oil will be sold.

ELVIS
03-17-2009, 11:35 PM
I said the same thing about the gangs if the bottom drops out, and that's why I will be armed legally or otherwise...

Gangs outnumber the police, national guard and any military they add to the equasion...

As far as Obama, I believe he was bread for this role to be a smooth talker and ultimately usher in the New World Order...

He said it himself...

And the bad part is killing the first black President will cause the same kind of riots...

And i'm not advocating that...I'm just making my point that I believe this is all planned and has been for decades...


:elvis:

Seshmeister
03-17-2009, 11:38 PM
I don't know what this big 'New world order' fear is that Americans have.

Firstly it seems cool on Star Trek. :)

Secondly no more wars.

Third how exactly would this new order be worse than the politicians you already have?

And fourthly it isn't going to happen in our lifetimes so don't worry about it. :)

ELVIS
03-17-2009, 11:40 PM
As soon as a world currency replaces the Dollar, that will be the beginning of the New World Order...

LoungeMachine
03-18-2009, 12:28 AM
ELVIS is stocking canned goods......

:D

C'mon E.

:gulp:

ELVIS
03-18-2009, 12:37 AM
No, they don't last long enough...

I'm gonna buy some seeds with my friends and grow some food...


:elvis:

GAR
03-18-2009, 02:18 AM
But I still lean to the idea that this has all been planned out decades ago and now it's strike time...

I never admit to being armed, but once they defeat your power to arm yourself and fight back it is all over for this country's sovereignty.

1.4 quadrill.. whoa

Big Train
03-18-2009, 10:03 AM
The solution is as simple as unplugging them. They do need to be illegal to core assets, because the variations are too complex and the results vary too wildly. I think they should still be allowed for small deals.

This is a huge mess and was not followed, because each version was its own formula and it took a finance geek and a high powered computer just to understand them. The senators who just voted to throw all this money at it have no fucking clue. Until you understand the issues, which nobody, much less Geithner, can claim to at this point, you can't throw money (which we literally just did) to make it better. We are still far from that part, but nobody is doing the hard work just to understand what the fuck just happened.

Our enemies are using this to their advantage. Russia openly fucking with us saying the world needs a new currency and their parking of ships and planes next door. China saying they are "worried" about our money and may have to start calling in chips. This is bad. Obama needs to show some balls right now...at not at fuckin AIG

ELVIS
03-18-2009, 10:40 AM
Dude they know what's going on...

Watching Congress and the president blame the housing market proves that to me...

They let it happen on purpose...


:elvis:

Nitro Express
03-18-2009, 12:07 PM
I don't know what this big 'New world order' fear is that Americans have.

Firstly it seems cool on Star Trek. :)

Secondly no more wars.

Third how exactly would this new order be worse than the politicians you already have?

And fourthly it isn't going to happen in our lifetimes so don't worry about it. :)

No More Wars? They said that after the US Civil War, World War I, and World War II. Since when is consolidating power a good thing? Most peeps don't act too benevolently when they have that kind of power. Japan bailed their bankers out and it did nothing for them but put them in more debt.

Nitro Express
03-18-2009, 12:12 PM
Dude they know what's going on...

Watching Congress and the president blame the housing market proves that to me...

They let it happen on purpose...


:elvis:

Yup. They also want us to fight amongst ourselves. They want caos in the streets. It gives them an excuse to clamp down on things and take away more freedoms. In fact, if Obama becomes unpopular and the people hate him, they will throw him under the train and bring in the next savior. With a nation full of greedy, I'm entitled shills, who have the morality of a baboon they are easily duped and manipulated. Hitler would be having a hard on over this.

Basically the bankers took over Washington. That is what has happened. It's clear as day.

LoungeMachine
03-18-2009, 12:14 PM
Basically the bankers took over Washington. That is what has happened. It's clear as day.

This I agree with 100%

But it happened on BushCO's watch.

It's unclear to me exactly what Obama, Inc. is doing....

:gulp:

Nitro Express
03-18-2009, 12:14 PM
Except Hitler liked spit, polish, and discipline. If he looked at America today he would go, "Holy fuck shit! These are my subjects!? I'm fucking doomed. How am I going to take over the world with such fat, lazy, dumb asses?"

LoungeMachine
03-18-2009, 12:17 PM
How am I going to take over the world with such fat, lazy, dumb asses?"

Sounds like the same issue facing the RNC these days.... :D

:gulp:

Nitro Express
03-18-2009, 12:19 PM
This I agree with 100%

But it happened on BushCO's watch.

It's unclear to me exactly what Obama, Inc. is doing....

:gulp:

Obama has the potential to be a good president. Yes, he inherited a mess and there is no room for mistakes and he has made huge mistakes into his presidency. What Obama has to do is unify the country and get a real economy going. Growing the government bigger isn't going to do it. Taxes will only cause revolts later.

He needs to go after the bankers hard instead of rewarding them and let the free market adjust the mess. We have to take our govt. back from the bankers or they will ruin us and the world.

We need a president will balls, intelligence, and integrity. We need a president of George Washington type caliber now, not the typical political whore.

But you are right. I'm not exactly sure what Obama is. But the president can send us to the bottom and help pull us out. One little mistake can fuck us good. No room for error here.

LoungeMachine
03-18-2009, 12:23 PM
Agreed.

:gulp:

But let's not forget this is the SECOND Bush Recession we've inherited.....

Nitro Express
03-18-2009, 12:27 PM
Who will become top of the food chain is the drug cartels. Drugs will always keep their value and you can always trade them anywhere. Plus, they have the hard hitting weapons and are organized. When paper money goes to shit, drugs will still buy you anything you want. Pussy, military weapons, loyal subjects to exploit. The only thing that can take these guys down is a government and ha! The US Government is one of the biggest drug/weapon runners in the world.

Nitro Express
03-18-2009, 12:33 PM
Obama also seems to have a lot of credability around the world. This guy can do things diplomatically that a neocon like McCain couldn't. I mean Obama really has the celebrity equity to exploit for good causes or he can use that to be a bigger fucking monster than Bush. If Obama turns out to be a bad guy, he can do more damage than Bush did. I guess my biggest concern about Obama is that he is for us instead of a greedy self-serving bastard.

ODShowtime
03-21-2009, 07:46 PM
Our enemies are using this to their advantage. China saying they are "worried" about our money and may have to start calling in chips. This is bad.


I wasn't too pleased when I read that the other day.

BITEYOASS
03-21-2009, 08:14 PM
It's about time we take these bankers and so-called financial experts who invested our money in derivatives, drag them behind a horse carriage with a rope, then hang em' high at Times Square! Experts my ass! Let's break out the torches and pitchforks! :mad:

BITEYOASS
03-21-2009, 08:18 PM
Maybe the Federal Reserve should have a public meeting with Tony Soprano representing us: http://thefinancialbrand.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/death-to-bankers-300x259.jpg