I don't even know why we debate all this shit. This is the real truth. [Archive]

Nitro Express

03-22-2009, 02:52 PM

It amazes me people still think they have any real kind of choices.

YouTube - George Carlin -"Who Really Controls America" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYIC0eZYEtI&feature=related)

mwsully

03-22-2009, 04:55 PM

It amazes me people still think they have any real kind of choices.

YouTube - George Carlin -"Who Really Controls America" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYIC0eZYEtI&feature=related)

You all may have heard of author Derrick Jensen. If not, I suggest you give some of his books a read, esp. Endgame. Clearly on the extreme line of thinking, he does bring up some provocative arguments on civilization:

Key arguments

Because civilization is not sustainable (premise one) and because civilization will not undergo a voluntary transformation (premise six), activists should change the ways they think about and work toward social change.

Because every living thing is inextricably dependent upon the rest of the natural world for survival, sustaining the natural world is good.

Because civilization depends on widespread violence (premise three), all civilized people (even dogmatic pacifists) are complicit in violence simply by their own participation in the industrial economy.

Because civilization is not sustainable (premise one) and sustaining the natural world is good, an act is good insofar as it decreases the ability of civilization to do violence.

Because the global economy is killing the planet before our eyes (premise one) and because it is not redeemable (premise six), it is wrong to think that personal lifestyle changes we make within the current system can save the planet. While we are not responsible for existing in the current system because we did not create it, we are responsible for doing our part to destroy the system, as this is the only way to stop the destruction of the planet.

Not that completely agree with all his arguments (there are more than what I copied here), I do believe he is accurate with some in describing industrial civilization.

Seshmeister

03-22-2009, 05:43 PM

I don't agree with that statement you hear a lot 'we are destroying the planet'.

We are changing the planet, maybe in a way that will not allow humans to survive so easily but we're not destroying it.

Over 99% of the species that have ever lived on Earth are now extinct, it's just how it all works.

Nitro Express

03-22-2009, 10:13 PM

binnie

03-23-2009, 04:39 AM

Where do these 'elites' meet and how do I become one?

I'm rarely convinced by conspiracy theory - the more general point that big business looks after itself is clearly true, however. But the fact that we are having this conversation seems to disprove the notion that there are no people capable of intelligent and rational thought.

Nitro Express

03-23-2009, 05:32 AM

Where do these 'elites' meet and how do I become one?

I'm rarely convinced by conspiracy theory - the more general point that big business looks after itself is clearly true, however. But the fact that we are having this conversation seems to disprove the notion that there are no people capable of intelligent and rational thought.

It helps to be a Rothchild, a Rockefeller, royalty, or a member of The House of Saud. Those are the big players. If you have serious political aims you better have ties with the Council on Foreign Relations.

If you want to be a CEO who gets $25,000,000 to get fired and then keeps getting jobs wit other companies you might want to rub elbows with members of the Bohemian Club.

It's not so much conspiracy as it is being in the right circles and good o'l boys clubs. This is what private clubs of very rich people are all about. Making alliances and consolidating power. Follow the money.

Seshmeister

03-23-2009, 06:12 AM

binnie

03-23-2009, 11:23 AM

It's not so much conspiracy as it is being in the right circles and good o'l boys clubs. This is what private clubs of very rich people are all about. Making alliances and consolidating power. Follow the money.

That's the same in every society, and I don't question that it's pretty much fact. What I dispite is these 'big players' sitting around plotting how to keep the people stupid and constantly ply them with mis-information. They don't need to do that...

Coyote

03-23-2009, 11:38 AM

What I dispite is these 'big players' sitting around plotting how to keep the people stupid and constantly ply them with mis-information. They don't need to do that...

Surely you're not implying we can do that ourselves?