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Dr. Love
03-23-2009, 08:01 PM
So my band is looking to get some gear to record with ... we're looking at these items:

Presonus Firestudio

PreSonus (http://www.presonus.com/products/Detail.aspx?ProductId=5)

M-Audio Profire 2626

M-AUDIO - ProFire 2626 - High-Definition 26-in/26-out FireWire Audio Interface with Octane Preamp Technology (http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/ProFire2626.html)

TASCAM US 1641

TASCAM (http://www.tascam.com/products/us-1641.html)

Now I don't know shit about any of this, can anyone help me figure out which we should get, or if there are other options we should be aware of? Not too concerned about price. Any help at all would be appreciated, this is all geek to me.

Dr. Love
03-23-2009, 08:02 PM
plz enjoy butts after useful responses, don't get distracted beforehand

Panamark
03-23-2009, 09:39 PM
Personally, with all the digital -audio interfaces available
for a PC now, and the endless amounts of DAW software
and plugins out there.. I wouldnt bother with dedicated
hardware in this modern era...
You can have your mixing desk, as many tracks as you want,
wav editing and shaping, endless effects (and most of it
can be found for free) right there on your PC.

really the only hardware you need is a good mic for vocals
and the digital audio interface. M-audio make some nice ones
for a good price. I use the Firewire Solo...

A good set of studio monitors is helpful too, but initially
you can get away with just headphones.

Dr. Love
03-23-2009, 09:45 PM
we want something with preamps that is very quiet. We have 16 mics for the drums, 2 for guitar, direct in currently for bass ... how would we record that all into the PC? I like the dedicated hardware because I can chain them together and run a firewire or usb cable to my macbook pro.

jhale667
03-23-2009, 09:56 PM
I'd say go with the M-Audio stuff for Pro Tools compatibility, but that's just because I'm having so much fun with Pro Tools...

mmmm...booty. ;)

Dr. Love
03-23-2009, 10:13 PM
I don't have pro-tools. At least, not yet. I am using garageband on my mac and reaper on my PC. The presonus and the m-audio look virtually the same to me.

Panamark
03-23-2009, 10:15 PM
we want something with preamps that is very quiet. We have 16 mics for the drums, 2 for guitar, direct in currently for bass ... how would we record that all into the PC? I like the dedicated hardware because I can chain them together and run a firewire or usb cable to my macbook pro.

They have multi input Digital Interfaces.. Check out USB2 and
Firewire stuff. (Again maybe M-audio) 24 and even 36 input !

M-AUDIO - FireWire Audio Interfaces (http://www.m-audio.com/index.php?do=products.family&ID=FWinterfaces)


Or you can just use a standard mixing desk and take the
output of that into your digital interface connected to
the PC. Tweaking of the drums would have to be done
on the old mixer in this case...

Panamark
03-23-2009, 10:16 PM
Hey I just noticed you have the 26 M audio in your first post ?
Why not use that and Pro tools,

or for a good freebie DAW, try Reaper...

Panamark
03-23-2009, 10:37 PM
Those interfaces are all buffered... No additional pre-amps required.
MAC and PC supported. Good thing about the PC approach is that
its always evolving. A physical multi-track recorder will always be
what it was when you bought it. Not to mention you will just end up
uploading its contents to a PC eventually anyway..
(I would think)

jhale667
03-24-2009, 01:39 AM
I don't have pro-tools. At least, not yet. I am using garageband on my mac and reaper on my PC. The presonus and the m-audio look virtually the same to me.


But you can probably get some deal that comes with Pro Tools LE at least with the M-Audio piece, I'd bet...;)

Panamark
03-24-2009, 01:55 AM
Man I need my eyes checked !
Doc already mentioned Reaper !:ashamed:
Sounds like you are on the right path Mr Love !

GAR
04-18-2009, 03:37 PM
we want something with preamps that is very quiet. We have 16 mics for the drums

With 16 mics dedicated just to drums, you'll have tons of hiss no matter what especially with household current.

Unless you're Genesis or Rush, it's unnecessary.
Unless you're recording for a CD release with a major label, it's unnecessary.

If you're in a garage with decent hight, I'd have two dynamic mics for cymbals: one close up on the ride, the other distanced above as high as possible at the biggest crash.

I'd have a 57 on the snare, and on the high hat, or only one between.

I'd have a D112 on the bass drum. And that's about it.

Five mics, or done in as little as 3. That should cut down the noise and focus your manual mic placement skills into play instead of relying on fade mix and EQ for tone.

I've heard some amazing orchestra recording done entirely with 2 or 3 mics, being totally serious here.

Less inputs, less noise. And unplug everything in the house while recording: coffee pot, alarm clock, micro, fridge.. it'll help with induced 60 cycle grounding buzz.

Diamondjimi
04-20-2009, 02:47 AM
Some good points Gargoyle. I run 2 Presonus Firestudios linked via Firewire to PC running Nuendo V,2.0
Very happy with the Presonus. A really good preamp/interface...

Seshmeister
04-20-2009, 05:14 AM
we want something with preamps that is very quiet. We have 16 mics for the drums, 2 for guitar, direct in currently for bass ... how would we record that all into the PC? I like the dedicated hardware because I can chain them together and run a firewire or usb cable to my macbook pro.

16 mics for the drums is complete madness.

GAR is correct you only need 5 or so.

Firewire is the way to go, I wish I had. USB doesn't seem to allow you to record the tracks separately simultaneously so say you recorded the drums on 5 tracks you can't go back and adjust the individual levels/EQ etc they will all effectively be on 1 stereo track.

Panamark
04-20-2009, 06:08 AM
Hmmmm...

Panamark
04-20-2009, 06:11 AM
Sesh, what Input device and recording software ?
I've seen a 6 input USB 2.0 device that worked.

I have firewire, it is faster, but PC manufacturers
are starting to drop it... So Im thinking Audio
manufacturers will be going all USB...
The next gen USB 3,0 maybe a lot better with
simultaneous multi tracks...

Seshmeister
04-20-2009, 08:37 AM
Alesis Multimix 16 and Cubase(the worlds least friendly software).

https://www.retromusic.co.za/v2/images/multimix16usb2_0_angle_med.jpg


I'm really pissed off about it. Before I bought it internet reviews seemed to say it would work ok but on further reading now it seems USB can't do that.

I've tried about 4 different software packages and can't get it to record the tracks separately.

Say I record 2 drum tracks(L+R) from the electronic kit, bass and lead guitar they all save fine onto 4 tracks but when you then try and do something with it you find that all 4 tracks are the same left and right mix of everything and you can't then break it down.

You can then add further instruments 1 track at a time no problem and do whatever you want with it but things recorded at the same time as each other live end up all on the 1 stereo track.

As you say I think the next generation of USB will solve it but I'm 99% sure now that USB 2 can't do it. Part of the reason I made this mistake is that I think very few people do what we are attempting these days, home recording multiple instruments live and USB is fine for the usual thing of adding one instrument at a time to a multitrack recording.

Cheers

:gulp:

Panamark
04-20-2009, 08:54 AM
Sounds like you need Cubase Sx3 mate..

Buy Alesis MultiMix 16 USB 2.0 16-Channel Mixer | Unpowered Mixers | Musician's Friend (http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/Alesis-MultiMix-16-USB-2.0-16Channel-Mixer?sku=801472)

Panamark
04-20-2009, 08:56 AM
Read the user comments/reviews all report Cubase SX3 will allow all
channels at once....

Hope that helps !

Seshmeister
04-20-2009, 09:06 AM
I dunno I'll look into it again, I'm using Cubase LE4.

The guy says "It works great! I've recorded all 18 channels at once using cubase sx3 with no problems at all. " but this isn't my issue. I can record as many tracks as I want at once it's just that they're all mixed down and can't be manipulated individually(even for volume) post recording.

Posts like that were what caused the confusion in the first place when I bought it with people claiming the same thing about LE but I'll have a look into the SX thing just in case.

Cheers

:gulp:

Panamark
04-20-2009, 09:18 AM
I see exactly what you mean....

I wonder if the mixdown is being done by the mixer itself
before inputting the signal into the PC, or by the DAW software ?
if its the latter, there may still be hope !

ELVIS
04-20-2009, 10:21 AM
With 16 mics dedicated just to drums, you'll have tons of hiss no matter what especially with household current.

Unless you're Genesis or Rush, it's unnecessary.
Unless you're recording for a CD release with a major label, it's unnecessary.

If you're in a garage with decent hight, I'd have two dynamic mics for cymbals: one close up on the ride, the other distanced above as high as possible at the biggest crash.

I'd have a 57 on the snare, and on the high hat, or only one between.

I'd have a D112 on the bass drum. And that's about it.

Five mics, or done in as little as 3. That should cut down the noise and focus your manual mic placement skills into play instead of relying on fade mix and EQ for tone.

I've heard some amazing orchestra recording done entirely with 2 or 3 mics, being totally serious here.

Less inputs, less noise. And unplug everything in the house while recording: coffee pot, alarm clock, micro, fridge.. it'll help with induced 60 cycle grounding buzz.

Thank you, Gar...

If your drummer thinks he requirers 16 mics, you require a new drummer...


:elvis:

ELVIS
04-20-2009, 10:42 AM
Say I record 2 drum tracks(L+R) from the electronic kit, bass and lead guitar they all save fine onto 4 tracks but when you then try and do something with it you find that all 4 tracks are the same left and right mix of everything and you can't then break it down.


Cheers

:gulp:

So, you're saying you have a separate track and waveform for each; guitar, bass and two for drums and cant manipulate them separately ??

I don't think that unit runs on Vodka...just kidding dude...

What if you copied, say your guitar track to a new track, then do you have control over it ??

Seshmeister
04-20-2009, 11:27 AM
Every track has everything on it. They are all the same.

I can then overdub additional tracks to them.

Hardrock69
04-20-2009, 02:50 PM
I have a Roland VS-1680. I use it for tracking, then, dump my project file (including all the wavs) onto my PC to use for mixdown wif Reaper.

As I do everything myself, I do not need 16 mic inputs. As it is, my VS only has 2 XLR inputs....the rest are 1/4" mono. If I need to track more than a few at a time, I have an old Tascam 12 channel recording console, and I can throw up to 12 XLR inputs on it, and run each channel DI into my Roland.

Been awhile since I have needed to do that many tracks at once though.

jhale667
04-20-2009, 10:47 PM
Alesis Multimix 16

https://www.retromusic.co.za/v2/images/multimix16usb2_0_angle_med.jpg



That actually looks pretty interesting...and I bet it's cheaper than the "recommended by Digidesign" mixer and does the same thing...I kinda need a little one in here for added flexibility...:)

Dr. Love
04-20-2009, 11:50 PM
Forgot about this thread.

Got 2x presonus. I think you guys are missing the point with the drums (we've done some tracks with about 10 or 12 drum mics). We're just having fun, playing with a toy and trying things out. It may not be necessary but what the hell, we're going to enjoy ourselves with it.

Doesn't matter if it's not necessary, or what we could get by with. :)

I'll post up some mp3s at some point in the next few weeks.

GAR
04-22-2009, 03:30 AM
16 mics for the drums is complete madness.

A mic on everything brings in noise, but it also introduces phasing problems I personally find annoying when you bring tracks together that due to inevitable offaxial positioning of so many mics, desired frequency range gets cancelled out and you wind up paring down anyways.

Seshmeister
04-22-2009, 04:16 AM
That actually looks pretty interesting...and I bet it's cheaper than the "recommended by Digidesign" mixer and does the same thing...I kinda need a little one in here for added flexibility...:)

It works well apart from my USB complaint and it's cheap - I paid £250 for it whatever that is in Euro's these days, probably about 5... :)

ELVIS
04-23-2009, 03:43 AM
Cents ??

Seshmeister
04-23-2009, 04:20 AM
Something like that...

Ever since you elected the chocolate Jesus everyone wants dollars... :)

ELVIS
04-23-2009, 04:50 AM
I could probably be imprisoned for referring to a certain human being as "the chocolate Jesus."

So I will decline to stoop so low as to use such a derogatory term do describe any member of the human race...:)

Seshmeister
04-23-2009, 04:54 AM
I stole it from Bill Maher.

Its all about whether you say it with affection or hatred... :)

ELVIS
04-23-2009, 05:09 AM
Well, I like chocolate and Jesus...:biggrin:

Panamark
04-23-2009, 09:16 PM
OT- but I have read and seen more about Obama's dog, than his wife..
No shit ! I had never heard of a Portugese water Pooch before, now
I cant look sideways without seeing the bugger......

ELVIS
04-23-2009, 11:47 PM
Are you sir calling the AMERICAN PRESIDENT'S WIFE A DOG ??

Off with his head!


:elvis:

GAR
04-24-2009, 01:38 AM
OT- but I have read and seen more about Obama's dog, than his wife..

Which is the more attractive, is quite, quite subjective to one's own opinion.

ELVIS
04-24-2009, 02:00 AM
Straynge daze indeed...


:elvis:

Seshmeister
04-24-2009, 04:28 AM
Which is the more attractive, is quite, quite subjective to one's own opinion.

Depends if you're a bitch or not...

ELVIS
04-24-2009, 04:42 AM
~Ha!~

:biggrin:

GAR
04-24-2009, 04:51 AM
A dog's mouth is supposed to be cleaner than it's owner's..

Seshmeister
04-24-2009, 05:21 AM
That's just the kind of thing dog owners tell themselves as their dog licks shit from it's asshole and then licks their kids faces.

I'm not convinced, the dog is a filthy animal... :)

GAR
04-24-2009, 05:27 AM
I'm not convinced, the dog is a filthy animal... :)

I don't know about that, but she sure isn't the public speaker for being a First Lady that's for damn sure.

ELVIS
04-24-2009, 07:36 AM
I think she's in silence mode at the present time...

Her big lips and horse teeth will start flappin' on que...you can beliee dat!


:elvis:

Seshmeister
04-24-2009, 08:23 AM
You see Chocolate Jesus is funny but your post is just racist.

Panamark
04-24-2009, 09:39 AM
That's just the kind of thing dog owners tell themselves as their dog licks shit from it's asshole and then licks their kids faces.

I'm not convinced, the dog is a filthy animal... :)

I have a dog(Puppy), have had pets on and off through life.
Interestingly Vets always say what you just said.
They have less bacteria in their mouths than us....
Not all dogs are filthy.... Maybe glasgow gutter gulpers ??

Anyway, dont you want kids to develop immune systems ???

To deprieve a child of that bond is fucked up..
(Im basing my experience on having animals around)

Seshmeister
04-24-2009, 09:48 AM
Vets would say that.

The Vet is a filthy professional.

Panamark
04-24-2009, 10:01 AM
Sounds like your soulmate :)

Seshmeister
04-24-2009, 10:33 AM
They stick their hands up animals bottoms.

Dr. Love
04-24-2009, 10:37 AM
HEY YOU DAMN KIDS GET OFF MY THREAD WITH YOUR POLITICAL TALK

I swear to Chocolate Jesus. :mad:

Seshmeister
04-24-2009, 10:54 AM
Well you didn't seem to be using it for anything... :)

ELVIS
04-24-2009, 12:50 PM
glasgow gutter gulpers ??



Band name ??