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LoungeMachine
04-17-2009, 02:11 PM
Raw Story » Bush memos parallel claim 9/11 mastermind’s children were tortured with insects (http://rawstory.com/08/blog/2009/04/17/bush-torture-memos-align-with-account-that-911-suspects-children-were-tortured/)


Bush memos parallel claim 9/11 mastermind’s children were tortured with insects

By John Byrne

Published: April 17, 2009
Updated 4 hours ago





Bush Administration memos released by the White House on Thursday provide new insight into claims that American agents used insects to torture the young children of alleged 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed.

In the memos, released Thursday, the Bush Administration White House Office of Legal Counsel offered its endorsement of CIA torture methods that involved placing an insect in a cramped, confined box with detainees. Jay S. Bybee, then-director of the OLC, wrote that insects could be used to capitalize on detainees’ fears.

The memo was dated Aug. 1, 2002. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed’s children were captured and held in Pakistan the following month, according to a report by Human Rights Watch.

While an additional memo released Thursday claims that the torture with insects technique was never utilized by the CIA, the allegations regarding the children would have transpired when the method was authorized by the Bush Administration.

At a military tribunal in 2007, the father of a Guantanamo detainee alleged that Pakistani guards had confessed that American interrogators used ants to coerce the children of alleged 9/11 mastermind Khalid Shaikh Mohammed into revealing their father’s whereabouts.

The statement was made by Ali Khan, the father of detainee Majid Khan, who gave a detailed account of his son’s interrogation at the hands of American guards in Pakistan. In his statement, Khan asserted that one of his sons was held at the same place as the young children of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the alleged mastermind of the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks.

“The Pakistani guards told my son that the boys were kept in a separate area upstairs and were denied food and water by other guards,” the statement read. “They were also mentally tortured by having ants or other creatures put on their legs to scare them and get them to say where their father was hiding.” (A pdf transcript is available here)

Khan’s statement is second-hand. But the picture he paints of his son’s interrogation at the hands of American interrogators is strikingly similar to the accounts given by numerous other detainees to the International Red Cross. The timing of the capture of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed’s son — then aged seven and nine — also meshes with a report by Human Rights Watch, which says that the children were captured in September 2002 and held for four months at the hands of American guards.

“According to eyewitnesses, the two were held in an adult detention center for at least four months while U.S. agents questioned the children about their father’s whereabouts,” the report said.

The use of insects isn’t mentioned in a recently leaked International Red Cross report, in which Red Cross officials questioned detainees about their treatment at the hands of US forces and ultimately judged them to have been tortured. A second memo released Thursday, dated May 10, 2005, says the CIA told the White House insects were never actually used in interrogations.

“We understand that — for reasons unrelated to any concerns that it might violate the [criminal] statute — the CIA never used the technique and has removed it from the list of authorized interrogation techniques,” Steven Bradbury, a principal deputy assistant attorney general, wrote in a footnote.

It’s worth noting, however, that the Red Cross was denied access to individuals held at CIA black sites. Khan’s son, Majid, was among those President Bush moved from the CIA’s secret prison network to Guantanamo Bay.

The techniques Khan says were employed against his son also match those approved in the Bybee memo.

“What I can tell you is that Majid was kidnapped from my son Mohammed’s [not related Khalid Sheikh Mohammed] house in Karachi, along with Mohammed, his wife, and my infant granddaughter,” Khan said in his military tribunal statement. “They were captured by Pakistani police and soldiers and taken to a detention center fifteen minutes from Mohammed’s house. The center had walls that seemed to be eighty feet high. My sons were hooded, handcuffed, and interrogated. After eight days of interrogation by US and Pakistani agents, including FBI agents, Mohammed was allowed to see Majid.

“Majhid looked terrible and very, very tired,” Khan continued. “According to Mohammed, Majid said that the Americans tortured him for eight hours at a time, tying him tightly in stressful positions in a small chair until his hands, feet and mind went numb. They re-tied him in the chair every hour, tightening the bonds on his hands and feet each time so that it was more painful. He was often hooded and had difficulty breathing. They also beat him repeatedly, slapping him in the face, and deprived him of sleep. When he was not being interrogated, the Americans put Majid in a small cell that was totally dark and too small for him to lie down in or sit in with his legs stretched out. He had to crouch. The room was also infested with mosquitoes. The torture only stopped when Majid agreed to sign a statement that he was not even allowed to read.”

Later in his statement, Khan alleges that the Pakistani guards revealed other abuses by American agents.

“The Americans also once stripped and beat two Arab boys, ages fourteen and sixteen, who were turned over by the Pakistani guards at the detention center,” he said. “These guards told my son that they were very upset at this and said the boys were thrown like garbage onto a plane to Guantanamo. Women prisoners were also held there, apart from their husbands, and some were pregnant and forced to give birth in their cells. According to Mohammed, one woman also died in her cell because the guards could not get her to a hospital quickly enough. This was most upsetting to the Pakistani guards.”

One blogger notes, “The first indications the children may have been tortured were reported in Ron Suskind’s 2006 book The One Percent Doctrine.”

“When KSM was being held at a secret CIA facility in Thailand, apparently the revamped Vietnam War-era base at Udorn, according to Suskind, a message was passed to interrogators: ‘do whatever’s necessary,’” Kevin Fenton writes at History Commons. “The interrogators then told KSM ‘his children would be hurt if he didn’t cooperate. However, his response was, ’so, fine, they’ll join Allah in a better place.’”

Fenton has two questions: “Did the Khans invent the allegations or garble them in some way and then ‘get lucky’ two years later, when it was revealed the CIA was, at least, contemplating the techniques they alleged it used at the time in question?” and “Given that nobody heard of the CIA using insects for another two years, why would they invent these specific allegations, which sounded bizarre when they were made?”

Diamondjimi
04-17-2009, 02:32 PM
8 wonderful years...:rolleyes:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v204/Federaljim/bush-hitler.gif

How this fucker never recieved a bullet is a fuckin miracle!

FORD
04-17-2009, 03:02 PM
There is no rationalization for this kind of shit. Not now. Not ever.

Prosecute the BCE right fucking NOW!!! :mad:

Nickdfresh
04-17-2009, 03:07 PM
That's almost as bad as having to spend time with Dick Cheney...

Guitar Shark
04-17-2009, 03:13 PM
Nick, is that Alec Baldwin in your profile?

Hunt for Red October perhaps?

LoungeMachine
04-17-2009, 03:19 PM
GlenGary GlenRoss is my guess.

Alway Be Closing

Nickdfresh
04-17-2009, 03:22 PM
Nick, is that Alec Baldwin in your profile?

Hunt for Red October perhaps?


Yes, and no. He plays a "motivational speaker" in "Glengarry Glen Ross." Tell you've seen it! :)

If not, rent it ASAP...

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LoungeMachine
04-17-2009, 03:27 PM
First place?

A brand new Cadillac

Second place?

A set of steak knives.

Third place?

You're fired

:gulp:

Classic, classic flick....

Va Beach VH Fan
04-17-2009, 04:15 PM
Yeah, but the Obama adminstration recently said they're NOT going to prosecute...

And Keith was not happy about it, which I agree with....

Visit msnbc.com for Breaking News, World News, and News about the Economy

Guitar Shark
04-17-2009, 04:22 PM
Olbermann makes very good points here, but ultimately I still think Obama did the right thing.

Va Beach VH Fan
04-17-2009, 04:32 PM
Olbermann makes very good points here, but ultimately I still think Obama did the right thing.

I disagree.... I just think he's got so much critical stuff going on right now, that he can't afford to concentrate on what would surely be a clusterfuck (another one) between Congress, the Justice Department, the White House and of course, the Bushies...

Guitar Shark
04-17-2009, 04:34 PM
And that's why I think he made the right call. It would be too much of a distraction from other more important things. But reasonable minds may differ...

FORD
04-17-2009, 04:47 PM
And that's why I think he made the right call. It would be too much of a distraction from other more important things. But reasonable minds may differ...

What could be more important than ensuring that this kind of shit never happens again, by prosecuting the bastards responsible?

Yeah, attempting to fix the economy (also damaged by the BCE) is important.

But we still have men and women in Iraq and Afghanistan, and God (and/or Allah) help them if they get captured over there, now that Obama has given a de facto endorsement of BCE war crimes. :(

Guitar Shark
04-17-2009, 04:50 PM
Note that I said "reasonable" minds... ;)

FORD
04-17-2009, 04:59 PM
What is not reasonable here, is a lawyer defending lawlessness.

The reason we had things like the Geneva Convention and the Nuremberg Trials is to say, basically, that "war sucks enough as it is. We won't make it worse by torturing prisoners - let alone fucking CHILDREN - because we would not want that done to our people when they're held prisoner in other countries".

If we allow the BCE to get away with this, then we owe Milosovic and Hitler an apology. Not a good precedent to set. Not fucking acceptable at all. :(

lesfunk
04-17-2009, 05:48 PM
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Combat Ready
04-17-2009, 06:51 PM
Allegations at this point. It may or may not have happened, yet you guys accept this as fact.

FORD
04-17-2009, 07:03 PM
Allegations at this point. It may or may not have happened, yet you guys accept this as fact.

These aren't "allegations". They're the BCE's own memos.

Combat Ready
04-17-2009, 07:15 PM
"......The memo was dated Aug. 1, 2002. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed’s children were captured and held in Pakistan the following month, according to a report by Human Rights Watch.
While an additional memo released Thursday claims that the torture with insects technique was never utilized by the CIA, the allegations regarding the children would have transpired when the method was authorized by the Bush Administration.

At a military tribunal in 2007, the father of a Guantanamo detainee alleged that Pakistani guards had confessed that American interrogators used ants to coerce the children of alleged 9/11 mastermind Khalid Shaikh Mohammed into revealing their father’s whereabouts

ELVIS
04-17-2009, 08:20 PM
Prosecute the BCE right fucking NOW!!! :mad:

Start a lawsuit, Mr. Bigshot...

Or are you afraid of the BCE...


:elvis:

Guitar Shark
04-17-2009, 09:35 PM
Start a lawsuit, Mr. Bigshot...

Or are you afraid of the BCE...


:elvis:

That would be pretty funny actually

FORD v. BCE

The battle between meaningless made-up acronyms... ;)

FORD
04-17-2009, 09:48 PM
That would be pretty funny actually

FORD v. BCE

The battle between meaningless made-up acronyms... ;)


Does that mean you want the case? :biggrin:

sadaist
04-17-2009, 11:09 PM
Bugs gross me out. But at age 7 or 9 I didn't mind them. Picked them up, collected them, played with them. Weird how I won't do that now. I wonder if it's hollywoods fault. I remember the scene in Indiana Jones-Temple Of Doom where the girl had to reach through a small opening to pull a lever and it was filled with nasty critters. Ewwww!


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bueno bob
04-18-2009, 01:47 AM
Sooner or later, I think prosecutions will happen. Now that this has been exposed, in addition to the revelation about Dick Cheney having his own personal death squad answerable to nobody but him, these illegal wars and occupations and the rape of the economy and natural resources for personal profit...sooner or later, it's going to become virtually impossible not to pursue criminal action against them.

As stated, though, that IS going to be a clusterfuck of epic proportions, so for the time being, Obama's fixation on the economy to the exclusion of legal action is probably for the best. As it is, he's spread out exceptionally thin right now trying to get shit back on track.

Note that I said - FOR NOW.

But eventually, I sincerely hope Bush and his cronies are brought up for the crimes they're quite obviously obscenely guilty of.

Blaze
04-18-2009, 03:04 AM
What happen during those 8 years, should be prosecuted by international courts and/or the international community.

Seshmeister
04-18-2009, 07:08 AM
It should but remember the US and a couple of other countries that torture people opted out of the international court of justice.

Seshmeister
04-18-2009, 07:09 AM
Sooner or later, I think prosecutions will happen. Now that this has been exposed, in addition to the revelation about Dick Cheney having his own personal death squad answerable to nobody but him, these illegal wars and occupations and the rape of the economy and natural resources for personal profit...sooner or later, it's going to become virtually impossible not to pursue criminal action against them.


The important thing is that none of them got a blowjob...

bueno bob
04-18-2009, 11:55 AM
The important thing is that none of them got a blowjob...

Precisely. If head was involved, I'd vote for immediate execution. You have to prioritize, you know.

FORD
04-18-2009, 12:26 PM
The important thing is that none of them got a blowjob...

Dunno about that. There's still about 200 hours of overnight visits to the White House by right wing "journalist"/homosexual prostitute James Jeffery Gannon Guckert that are still unaccounted for.

LoungeMachine
04-18-2009, 12:46 PM
I brought that up on the Biden Lying thread, FORD.

The Reich Wingnuts would prefer to ignore that part of the story....

hideyoursheep
04-20-2009, 01:25 AM
So KSM's kids ratted him out?