GM starts telling workers plants will be idled

[kwame k]

By TOM KRISHER, AP Auto Writer Tom Krisher, Ap Auto Writer – 31 mins ago
DETROIT – General Motors Corp. is starting to tell its workers about plans to temporarily close most of its factories for more than two months to control inventories due to sagging sales.

United Auto Workers Local 276 President Enrique Flores in Arlington, Texas, says he was told Thursday that his factory will close for nine weeks starting May 11. The plant makes big sport utility vehicles such as the Chevrolet Suburban. Flores says the plant is to reopen July 13.

Other union officials say they have meetings scheduled Thursday to discuss production changes.

Three people briefed on GM's plans said Wednesday that nearly all its factories will be closed for up to nine weeks from May to July.

Link (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090423/ap_on_bi_ge/us_gm_factories;_ylt=Ai.FblttjNdMRfYETeFJoLL2_sEF; _ylu=X3oDMTJpazh0dGlqBGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMDkwNDIzL3VzX 2dtX2ZhY3RvcmllcwRjcG9zAzYEcG9zAzYEc2VjA3luX3RvcF9 zdG9yaWVzBHNsawNnbXN0YXJ0c3RlbGw-)

[kwame k]

....and so it begins.

[Nickdfresh]

I don't think it is the "End" yet. Sales are down, and "floorplans" for cars at dealerships are enormously expensive and kill any profit...

[LoungeMachine]

Where is the press release dateline Detroit stating that the new high-mpg / alt fuel cars are ready to be rolled out.......

This is like reading 100 years ago that the buggy whip mfgs are having to cut back on hours......

:gulp:

And tell me again what their excuses are for not selling us the same cars they sell in Europe getting 40-50 mpg?????

[FORD]

And tell me again what their excuses are for not selling us the same cars they sell in Europe getting 40-50 mpg?????

Well, some of them are diesel engines. So there are somewhat legitimate issues there.... environmental restrictions on regular diesel, and a supply problem with biodiesel.

The latter could be solved easily enough by cutting the goddamn FrankenCorn industry out of the loop, legalizing hemp and using a much more efficient source for the biofuels. Corn (even the organic family farm grown kind) will never be sustainable for a good biofuel suply.

[kwame k]

They'll never go for hemp and bio-fuel will be the Beta Max or 8-track of this generation.
The farmers who are producing this corn and the lobbyist/politician's who are making money/votes off of this have no incentive to make it more efficient.

Really, I don't see this being the answer. There are so many different forms of propulsion, leaving this up to lobbyist and oil companies is beyond stupid. Cars will never change unless there's a demand from the consumer for change and that can't happen until there is a cheap and efficient alternative to gas/oil.

[Big Train]

Honestly, this is the healthiest thing for the company. By that, I don't mean taking this prolonged, torturous for all path of idling the plants. GM needs to be parted out and they need to be run as separate companies.

The only way to unlock them from their old ways of doing business, is to downsize them volume wise and let them be independent with outside financing. An independent Buick or Hummer might be much more apt to try new technologies (Hummer running Bio or low sulfur diesel is a no brainer for ex., or an electric Buick which keep the old folks happy), than the "overall mandate" laid down by GM for cost controls across the board.

Going that route will keep more full time employees actually employed building vehicles people want. It has to start there.

[hideyoursheep]

THe Hummer is made in Mexico. Big profit margin for GM. Low cost operation, and you've seen the sticker. I wouldn't own one of those POS vehicles. Better off with a Reliant K.

Bottom line is the employees all suffer from mgmt.'s bad decisions. It's not the guys on the floor, it's the guys who tell them to keep building shit cars that never evolve, because it costs them money. Now it's coming back to bite them in the ass. No word on the Mexico plant shutting down? Hmm..

[Big Train]

Exactly, which is why they should be smaller companies with groups more willing to innovate faster.

[Nitro Express]

When I started college. General Motors was the largest corporation in the US. It was number one on the Fortune 500. Now General Motors is going to go bankrupt, it will be broken up into pieces and bought up cheap by foreign investors. Just another example how the US economy has been ruined.

[Nitro Express]

All I can say is I'm glad I paid the penaltys and cashed out my 401K when everyone still thought they were going to get rich overnight day trading .com stocks and flipping real estate.

[Nitro Express]

THe Hummer is made in Mexico. Big profit margin for GM. Low cost operation, and you've seen the sticker. I wouldn't own one of those POS vehicles. Better off with a Reliant K.

Bottom line is the employees all suffer from mgmt.'s bad decisions. It's not the guys on the floor, it's the guys who tell them to keep building shit cars that never evolve, because it costs them money. Now it's coming back to bite them in the ass. No word on the Mexico plant shutting down? Hmm..

Mexican made Suberbans are pieces of shit as well. I had one and it burned oil. After a big go around with the dealer they finally changed the engine out and then the front transaxle had catastrophic failure at 30,000 miles. I cut my losses and sold the piece of shit and then the sucker that bought it experienced catastrophic transmission failure.

[Nitro Express]

The Japanese will hire UAW workers in a heartbeat. Exactly. The shit always flows downhill and Corporate America has been a sewer for a long time.

[Nitro Express]

Where is the press release dateline Detroit stating that the new high-mpg / alt fuel cars are ready to be rolled out.......

This is like reading 100 years ago that the buggy whip mfgs are having to cut back on hours......

:gulp:

And tell me again what their excuses are for not selling us the same cars they sell in Europe getting 40-50 mpg?????

The CEO's were making $50 million a year no matter how they managed the company. Also GM seemed to always be more interested in being a finance company that a car company. When the CEO pay ratio went from 20:1 from a line worker to 500:1, the pressure to manage well kind of goes out the window.

[Big Train]

GM it seems is putting Pontiac out of it's misery. Your orig GTO is now officially a Dussenburg.

Pontiac Headed for Junk Yard - WSJ.com (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124060030328753755.html)

It will be purchased by foreign investor who do nothing with it and they sell it back to an upstart American firm who breathes new life into it. Which will end up doing for it what GM should have done all along.

[Nickdfresh]

GM it seems is putting Pontiac out of it's misery. Your orig GTO is now officially a Dussenburg.

Pontiac Headed for Junk Yard - WSJ.com (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124060030328753755.html)

It will be purchased by foreign investor who do nothing with it and they sell it back to an upstart American firm who breathes new life into it. Which will end up doing for it what GM should have done all along.

They already had pretty much. Pontiac was the "performance division." I think they were just going to piggy-back Pontiac on Chevy originally with a few models like the stellar G8, which is really a nice car. Now it will probably be re-badged into a Chevy...

[hideyoursheep]

GM it seems is putting Pontiac out of it's misery. Your orig GTO is now officially a Dussenburg.

Pontiac Headed for Junk Yard - WSJ.com (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124060030328753755.html)

It will be purchased by foreign investor who do nothing with it and they sell it back to an upstart American firm who breathes new life into it. Which will end up doing for it what GM should have done all along.

Your original GTO was the beginning of the muscle car era. The first of it's kind. The new GTO is an Austrailian idea with a Pontiac badge. Another example of the apathy towards innovation by GM.

Buick should be next-what do they really have to offer today?

Oldsmobile has already been scrapped, so there's no suprise here.

Cadillac, Hummer and the volume of Chevy's and Pontiac is the only thing that keeps them on life support at the moment. It's like they don't even try anymore.

[hideyoursheep]

The Japanese will hire UAW workers in a heartbeat.


Not so sure about that. If that were the case, those plants would be filled with former UAW workers, and they aren't.

[Big Train]

This is all healthy. I'm much more likely to buy a Pontiac under different ownership, even if it is the exact same suppliers and line workers. Small companies HAVE to get it right. Maybe they will begin building "excitement" again, not selling me "apathy".

[Igosplut]

Your original GTO was the beginning of the muscle car era. The first of it's kind. The new GTO is an Austrailian idea with a Pontiac badge. Another example of the apathy towards innovation by GM.


The 64 GTO was what started it all. An intermediate (read lightweight for the era) performance-based car. They copied what was being done in the custom/racing market (much like what goes on with Harley parroting every move the custom market makes).

And do you know who was responsible for the development of the GTO in 64??






John Delorean. He was a GM exec, and also worked for Packard...

[Nickdfresh]

Your original GTO was the beginning of the muscle car era. The first of it's kind. The new GTO is an Austrailian idea with a Pontiac badge. Another example of the apathy towards innovation by GM.
...


I don't agree at all. GM bought Holden in the 1930s and they are renowned for making great performance sedans that are BMW/Mercedes killers. If anything, GM should have tapped in on its foreign holdings much sooner. The GTO did have bland styling, but the G8 is really a fantastic car and neither is lacking in performance...

[Big Train]

I looked at the new GTO several times and considered purchasing it. It did the job, didn't cost all that much, but I couldn't get past that it was a lower tier GM product. If I buy a Vette, I know it's of a certain quality. Below that, you have no idea what your getting into. That is ultimately what made me pass on it.

[twonabomber]

This is all healthy. I'm much more likely to buy a Pontiac under different ownership, even if it is the exact same suppliers and line workers. Small companies HAVE to get it right. Maybe they will begin building "excitement" again, not selling me "apathy".

has anyone said anything about Pontiac being sold off? everything i've seen says just killed off...

[Nickdfresh]

has anyone said anything about Pontiac being sold off? everything i've seen says just killed off...

We won't really know until tomorrow. As far as I know, only Saturn is for sale and will be killed off without a buyer. Supposedly an equity firm is interested and might use their dealership chain to import various Euro, Indian, and Chinese makes under the Saturn moniker...

Originally, Pontiac was sort of supposed to be spun into sort of a special edition, sportier Chevy with them killing off all the redundant Pontiac models (like the one I drove as my winter car, which is unfortunately becoming my summer car) which are just re badged Chevys, Buicks, and (formerly) Olds...

I was thinking about getting a Saturn (Opel/Holden/Vauxall/Euro Chevy) Astra, but they didn't offer the turbo-charged performance version here. But of course they might be tits-up before the warranty period ends. I'm now waiting to see what comes out in the next two years in the US, and can't wait for the new Fords like the Verve/Fiesta and third generation Euro-style Ford Focus that might get 43-miles a gallon with a 220 horsepower engine and six-speed gearbox. Even Fiat merging with Chrysler could be interesting...

[Kristy]

GM it seems is putting Pontiac out of it's misery. Your orig GTO is now officially a Dussenburg.

The muscle car was one of America's best post-war inventions that was good for its day. Problem with Detroit is that they could never move with the times when the American consumer went from horsepower to an economical mindset.Right now I'm looking to buy a new car (well, 2007 or newer) and I'm not even considering anything that GM, Ford or (gasp) Chrysler have to offer.

[Big Train]

has anyone said anything about Pontiac being sold off? everything i've seen says just killed off...

I'm sure if they aren't going to use it, they are going to sell it. It is a huge opportunity for an upstart or even another automaker. It's a well known nameplate and has a lot of residual value in it's intellectual property.

I would assume Olds will be next, since they have gone down that path before. Pontiac probably went first with a buyer in the wings.

[hideyoursheep]

The muscle car was one of America's best post-war inventions that was good for its day. Problem with Detroit is that they could never move with the times when the American consumer went from horsepower to an economical mindset. The real problem was they had to do it in a hurry and couldn't-Japan had a helluva headstart in that area. But they too are having problems at the moment.


Right now I'm looking to buy a new car (well, 2007 or newer) and I'm not even considering anything that GM, Ford or (gasp) Chrysler have to offer. Well then, you may be making a lateral move, or worse, and not even know it. And if you can't perform basic maintenance on whatever you buy, you're gonna wish you had bought domestic.

[hideyoursheep]

The 64 GTO was what started it all. An intermediate (read lightweight for the era) performance-based car. They copied what was being done in the custom/racing market (much like what goes on with Harley parroting every move the custom market makes).

And do you know who was responsible for the development of the GTO in 64??






John Delorean. He was a GM exec, and also worked for Packard...

Don't forget about Mr. Mustang, Lee Iaccoca! :D

[twonabomber]

i dunno...i bet it's just killed off. gone the way of Plymouth and Olds before it.

Pontiac shares space in dealerships, so that's no advantage. the Saturn dealer network is on its own and allegedly/supposedly did things differently than the other GM dealerships and will be an easier spin-off.

[Blaze]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/54/Tatata_Nano.jpg/250px-Tatata_Nano.jpg
They should make these with air, heat and convertiable. (and an mp3 plugin)

[hideyoursheep]

The GTO did have bland styling, but the G8 is really a fantastic car and neither is lacking in performance...
Fucking Christ, Nick! Those fuckers come with a 396 or 400 ci engine!
It's closer to a real GTO than the recent models.

John D. Would be proud.

[twonabomber]

the last GTO looked like a RWD Cavalier...

[Kristy]

Well then, you may be making a lateral move, or worse, and not even know it. And if you can't perform basic maintenance on whatever you buy, you're gonna wish you had bought domestic.

Right now, I'm looking at a 2008 Infinity G37 with that packs around 335hp and had 26,000 on it
http://image.automobilemag.com/f/reviews/coupes/6713742+w440/0706_z+2008_infiniti_g37_coupe+top.jpg

So go on and laugh but believe it or not the insurance for this is much cheaper than what I'm driving now.

[hideyoursheep]

the last GTO looked like a RWD Cavalier... I don't even know what a Cavalier looks like anymore.

[hideyoursheep]

Right now, I'm looking at a 2008 Infinity G37 with that packs around 335hp and had 26,000 on it
http://image.automobilemag.com/f/reviews/coupes/6713742+w440/0706_z+2008_infiniti_g37_coupe+top.jpg

So go on and laugh but believe it or not the insurance for this is much cheaper than what I'm driving now.

Get the G8 instead.

[Kristy]

I'll never buy a car made by GM.

[hideyoursheep]

Your problem, not mine.

[Nickdfresh]

UAW and Chrysler come to terms as the union makes deep concessions to allow for Chrysler-Fiat merger...

UAW agrees to concessions with Chrysler - Autos- msnbc.com (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30424772)

And it looks like Pontiac is toast...

[Nickdfresh]

I don't even know what a Cavalier looks like anymore.

Like the Dodo, which is also extinct...

They make the Cobalt now, which is but is pretty much just an outdated, previous body-style Opel Astra....

Chevy will be coming out with the Cruz and finally have a decent fucking small car on par with their superior products they sold in Europe and Asia...

2010 Chevrolet Cruz 40 mpg automobile to go on sale in Europe next March | Kevin Colby: News and Political blog (http://kevincolby.com/2008/10/29/2010-chevrolet-cruz-40-mpg-automobile-to-on-sale-in-eurpoe-next-march/)

http://www.topgear.com/us/photos/more/chevrolet-cruze2/

[Nickdfresh]

Right now, I'm looking at a 2008 Infinity G37 with that packs around 335hp and had 26,000 on it
http://image.automobilemag.com/f/reviews/coupes/6713742+w440/0706_z+2008_infiniti_g37_coupe+top.jpg

So go on and laugh but believe it or not the insurance for this is much cheaper than what I'm driving now.

Infinity's are decent cars. But you're just trading one troubled automaker for another. Nissan-Infinity is also having a lot of problems and while Infinity is a bit more conscientious - Nissan is also notorious for having problems related to unbalanced quality control and fit-and-finish....

[Big Train]

UAW and Chrysler come to terms as the union makes deep concessions to allow for Chrysler-Fiat merger...

UAW agrees to concessions with Chrysler - Autos- msnbc.com (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30424772)

And it looks like Pontiac is toast...

Do you guys think this is a good move? I won't get on a union rant (for you Nick, I promise), just curious for pro-union people, is it a boon for them or a bust?

On the one hand, the union now has much more juice and can stave off job losses if it likes. Good for the union worker.

On the other hand, none of the fundamentals have changed, so the huge legacy costs, crappy product line and declining marketshare are there. I would assume that the union and more importantly, the unions fund, will take the hits as the downward spiral continues. Bad for the union worker.

The current investors can walk away and cut their losses. Seems like they win again.

[Nickdfresh]

Do you guys think this is a good move? I won't get on a union rant (for you Nick, I promise), just curious for pro-union people, is it a boon for them or a bust?

On the one hand, the union now has much more juice and can stave off job losses if it likes. Good for the union worker.

I dunno. Did they have a choice?


On the other hand, none of the fundamentals have changed, so the huge legacy costs, crappy product line and declining marketshare are there. I would assume that the union and more importantly, the unions fund, will take the hits as the downward spiral continues. Bad for the union worker.

The current investors can walk away and cut their losses. Seems like they win again.

The current investors are fucked if Chrysler indeed goes bankrupt, the Union will be the first to get paid...

And Chrysler was attempting to overcome its shitty product with an alliance with Fiat that would bring much of their product line to the US and would augment the good cars Chrysler does make such as the 300, Charger, Caravan, and of course the Rubicon. Well, in theory anyway...

[Igosplut]

On the one hand, the union now has much more juice and can stave off job losses if it likes. Good for the union worker.


But how would the union "having juice" weather the job loses? If the manufacturers go toes-up, how would the union survive that? It is just an auto workers union if I'm not mistaken.

I believe the government shouldn't have got involved. That might have staved off the crash, but it's still coming and I think while the initial implosion would have been worst, the results would be better in the long run.

It's almost like the government staved it off so certain people could get their money out first.....

[hideyoursheep]

I dunno. Did they have a choice?



The current investors are fucked if Chrysler indeed goes bankrupt, the Union will be the first to get paid...

And Chrysler was attempting to overcome its shitty product with an alliance with Fiat that would bring much of their product line to the US and would augment the good cars Chrysler does make such as the 300, Charger, Caravan, and of course the Rubicon. Well, in theory anyway...

Are you saying if Chrysler goes, Dodge goes with it? That would be too bad, cause Dodge can still put out somewhat. Aside from the discontinued PT Cruiser (which I myself like to look at, but would never own) Chrysler has been shit since merging with Dahlmer. Even the truck lines took a severe hit in the quality area. I'm not so sure Fiat would know what to do with them.

I'm gonna miss the 318ci....Most dependable thing they ever had IMO.