My new project, it's a "Jem" of a guitar

[indeedido]

I started this project back around November, but I've had several delays. I was fool enough to start two guitars at once, and when winter hit, it bogged me down. Had some issues with a neck I bought, turned out to be a lemon. Luthier tried to rip me off, got my credit card company involved and got my dough back yadda yadda yadda....I've been a fan of Vai and the Jem since the DLR days and always liked the 7VWH, but I can't stand gold hardware. I've had a few Jems over the years, but always liked the 7VWH. So, why spend $2500 for one, when you can make one for under a grand. Sans gold hardware. The body is made of Alder.....So, behold my progress.

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p301/indeedido/Picture003-2.jpg

[indeedido]

I also don't really care for scalloped frets, so I had a neck made sans scallops. Dig the tree of life. Three piece neck so it will resist warping better than a one piece. Strong! Maple back with slightly flamed maple center. I'm going to finish it with tung oil, that will make it nice and fast/smooth and also set off that flame. Fretboard is ebony.

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p301/indeedido/eb5f_3.jpg

[indeedido]

Hello sand sealer.....


http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p301/indeedido/Picture008-1.jpg

[jhale667]

Very cool, will be interested to see the progress...post tons of pics! :killer:


:guitar:

[indeedido]

After several coats of sand sealer, time to sand and level.



http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p301/indeedido/Picture001-4.jpg



http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p301/indeedido/Picture002-5.jpg

[indeedido]

A lot of you may already know this, but I like to pass the knowledge I've picked up over the years for budding builders. Notice the block in the neck pocket. It is wise to mask off the neck pocket so you don't get a build up of paint in there and then your neck doesn't fit. Also about the block, put a small piece of a shim in there so that your "paint stick" doesn't get sealed against the body and ruin it. I have a stick with a hook on it so I can hang to dry and also handle it with ease.

[jhale667]

Installed the trem bushings pre-finish, I see...;)

Wood-to-wood contact in the neck pocket transfers string vibration better, also...makes the instrument more resonant.

[indeedido]

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p301/indeedido/Picture003-3.jpg

[indeedido]

Installed the trem bushings pre-finish, I see...;)

Yeah, I did a guitar a couple of years ago and put the bushings in after I painted it. Turned out to not be such a good idea as I cracked the finish trying to get them in. Also a good idea to be sure the trem fits into the route for a floating trem. So I installed the bushings and dry fitted everything. Nothing worse than having a body all painted up and shit doesn't fit. Grrrr:hitch:





Dry fitting


http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p301/indeedido/Picture006.jpg

[indeedido]

You know what makes the sanding process more fun??? Smoking a brisket while you sand. Both are long, tedious in process. I slow smoke my briskets with hickory for 8 hours. Here is half of it. Yum!!


http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p301/indeedido/IMG00128.jpg

[indeedido]

After the sealer coat is level, prime and paint.


http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p301/indeedido/Picture005-4.jpg


http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p301/indeedido/Picture006-1.jpg

[jhale667]

Yeah, I did a guitar a couple of years ago and put the bushings in after I painted it. Turned out to not be such a good idea as I cracked the finish trying to get them in. Also a good idea to be sure the trem fits into the route for a floating trem. So I installed the bushings and dry fitted everything. Nothing worse than having a body all painted up and shit doesn't fit. Grrrr:hitch:

Exactly, exactly.
Another trick a woodworker buddy of mine taught me was to put a little wood glue on the bushings when you push them in for good; adds a little extra stability. They ain't going anywhere...lol

[GAR]

No guitar of mine has those stupid trempost bushings.

I want to know what the purpose of primer is on a woodgrained item like this, where there is no metal bonding to prime?

It is not necessary. I would go clear coat, then next coating straight to the color.

If it were a silver or gold metallic color, I would use a plain white as a guidecoat behind it. But I would never use primer.

The first time I used primer on a guitar I was 16, also the last time because by the time I was done, the finish was so thick it began cracks at the stress areas of hardware mounting and the neck glue joint.

I don't advise primer, no factory I've visited uses primer only a clear of heavy pigment such as a vinyl acetate lacquer sealer or in the case of most of the rest of the industry, catylized styrene clear that gets cured with hi-uv lights.

[GAR]

Notice the block in the neck pocket.

That sanding block is cleaner than the neck pocket.

[indeedido]

No guitar of mine has those stupid trempost bushings.

I want to know what the purpose of primer is on a woodgrained item like this, where there is no metal bonding to prime?

It is not necessary. I would go clear coat, then next coating straight to the color.

If it were a silver or gold metallic color, I would use a plain white as a guidecoat behind it. But I would never use primer.

The first time I used primer on a guitar I was 16, also the last time because by the time I was done, the finish was so thick it began cracks at the stress areas of hardware mounting and the neck glue joint.

I don't advise primer, no factory I've visited uses primer only a clear of heavy pigment such as a vinyl acetate lacquer sealer or in the case of most of the rest of the industry, catylized styrene clear that gets cured with hi-uv lights.



Do you know anything? Primer helps the paint to bond whether it be metal or wood. Also helps fill in any micro scratch in the sand sealer.

So you would clear coat it, then paint it? Moron.

At 16 I'm sure you figured everything out. It wasn't that your can of Krylon pooped out on you, it was the primer's fault. Sure, the primer was too thick.



http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p301/indeedido/toolbox.jpg

[indeedido]

No guitar of mine has those stupid trempost bushings.





Because you have no guitars. Piss off and get out of my build thread. You offer nothing.


http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p301/indeedido/toolbox.jpg

[jackassrock]

Not to be the one to agree with the ever unpopular Gar, but I think he's right. That's what some factories do, maybe even most. But I also know that in refinishing both a Hamer and an Ibanez in the past, they were both primed, whereas Fenders I've done weren't. The Hamer was a standard with one of those godawful factory flamejobs on it. Turns out it was painted over a decent flame maple top.

Although I honestly don't see how it would really make that much of a difference.

[indeedido]

Fair enough, I'll add this, primer is suggested for use over the sand sealer and before the color coat. A satisfactory finish can be accomplished without the use of a primer, but more color coats may be required. That is my school of thought. I feel like my projects that I've done look nicer with primer than without.

[Diamondjimi]

Primer is always a good thing ,like you said ,it fills in micro pitsand such. Plus primer sands down very easy and it's bonding properties for top coating with finish are valuable.
You're doin a great job "deeds" keep us posted.

[GAR]

Do you know anything? Primer helps the paint to bond whether it be metal or wood. Also helps fill in any micro scratch in the sand sealer.

Primer fills deep scratches from 80 to 220, turd.

Bare wood bodies get sanded at 80 grit, then scratches fine-sanded out with 180 before sealer and if you REALLY wanted to get nutty, polish the edges and barely go with the grain at 220 before the first clear coat.

Also, the brisket sauce does NOT mix well with the clear. But I recommend you drink the primer it's prolly yummier.

[letsrock]

Gar sounds jealous. Keep up the nice work on your guitar.
Keep us posted on the progress and the pics do your work justice.
Thanks for sharing.

John

[GAR]

.. primer is suggested for use over the sand sealer and before the color coat.

Primer is more brittle and less flexible than clear sealer. It is recommended only by paint supply counter knobs who want to sell you crap.

Until the early 80s we used primer on cars and trucks, then the industry came out with acrylic enamel sealer coatings which would apply even over bare metal that was degreased and etched.

This is wood, not rocket science. You're overprepping but that's okay because you probably don't understand it's more important to maintain as thin a coating on musical instruments as possible.

Seal the grain so it doesn't pop, shoot the color, shoot a light clear then buff. Or don't do clear.. it's not that complicated that you have to have primer - it's not METAL.

Get it? "Prime"="Prep" there's a purpose-statement in the name alone, that tells you what it is made to do.

Primer should never, ever be used on a new bare wood guitar surface or you invited the disaster of extra-thick film thicknesses that *loooove* to chip and crack for you in environmental and seasonal changes.

NO primer. None. Don't do it. Never do this!

[GAR]

Gar sounds jealous.
Thanks for sharing.

John

MOre to back my point: Strats from the 50s and 60s that started around 57 doing solid colors?

Did they EVER use a primer? No. They would fulfill a solid-color or custom color request by taking a sunburst off the rack and shoot straight over it.

There are lots of examples, and that was in the days paint was limited to lacquer before the new polyesters came out in the late 60's.

In fact, my 74 creme strat similar to Yngwies', the creme is the faded clear LACQUER topcoat, over a thin white layer, of LACQUER, over a heavy thick coating of LACQUER.

You could see in the worn bouts the layers coming thru clearly, as all these guitars do.

You'd think the factory would just wake up and use "primer" to fill the deep grains of ash wood.

[indeedido]

Why do you think I'm priming bare wood? It is not bare wood. The wood has been sealed with a laqcuer based sand sealer. I sand the primer so it is super thin. I even wet sand the paint to make it as flat and thin as possible and likewise with the clear coat. You don't know jack shit so don't tell me I don't understand a thick finish and its tonal properties.

So you think primer on bare wood only makes it thick? Primer on bare wood serves no protection of the grain. The wood grain is going to pop right through primer.

I know more about this than you can google, so piss off. You probably support a poly paint rather than lacquer because it is more durable. Poly is shit.

You seem to paint alot, or smell the fumes at least, how about posting some pics of your projects know-it-all. I wanna see that Charvette.


http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p301/indeedido/toolbox.jpg

[ELVIS]

I admit, that's a difficult job...

That's why I stick with more rounded Strats...


Nice!


:elvis:

[ELVIS]

Yeah, i've painted solid colors directly over wood, but the wood absorbs the first three coats or so, but it still works...

Trial and error is the way I learn...

[Igosplut]

Until the early 80s we used primer on cars and trucks, then the industry came out with acrylic enamel sealer coatings which would apply even over bare metal that was degreased and etched.



Another wrong google search....

Sealers are primarily used to seal impurities from contaminants, incompatible paints/primers, ect from bleeding through and affecting the topcoats.They are NOT a replacement for primers, which besides aiding adhesion are fillers for small scratches and straightening panels. The newer hi-build primers par down even further the use of plastic filler and body putty (that was notorious for shrinking AND very popular years back) by not shrinking with thicker coats. And before you google again, I know there are products that claim to be both, but I've never seen any professionals use them

And the big thing in the 80s was Imron paint.

Try again coward..

[indeedido]

Automakers also skip another step you don't "have" to do. Color sand and wet sand the clear. Ever wonder why there is so much orange peel in the cars on the road? It is cheaper to clear and go. Skipping that step saves money. Sure you can skip it, but it doesn't look as good.

[indeedido]

I admit, that's a difficult job...

That's why I stick with more rounded Strats...


Nice!


:elvis:

Thanks! It is a lot harder than I anticipated. Getting paint into the lion's claw smoothly without running is a chore. Same for the lower horn where it is more flat than round. Can't say I want to do it again :umm:

[ELVIS]

But you can use primer, sealers or even paint to seal the wood. Let it dry a week or two and your topcoat will lay smooth as long as you sand the dried coats first...

[ELVIS]

And watch those flat corners...

Don't even sand them. Polish will do just fine...

Sand through those corners and you're back to square one...


:elvis:

[jhale667]

Because you have no guitars. Piss off and get out of my build thread. You offer nothing.


http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p301/indeedido/toolbox.jpg

Seriously, GAyR...STFU. :fufu:

The guy's doing a great job, and of course you can't resist the urge to cap on him with your holier-than-thou bullshit. It's getting old.

He's in America, he can paint it however the fuck he wants. Without a lecture from you, you no-picture-posting, plywood Charvette having, google-handicapped jackass.

And whining about the bushings? What a sissy. Plus it's not like you can even get the old-style posts anymore without special ordering them from Floyd Rose, dummy. You just hate on anyone that can build their own guitar.


Carry on, ideedido - by all means. Great work! :D


Gar sounds jealous

Yeah, well....the sun did come up this morning, didn't it? :lmao: Same as it ever was.

[GAR]

Plus it's not like you can even get the old-style posts anymore without special ordering them from Floyd Rose...

Carvin store has 'em..

Allparts
Mojotone
WD Products

[GAR]

You probably support a poly paint rather than lacquer because it is more durable.


Name a finish, gun or pressure system and i've probably used it so just assume I have and do not ask.

I like the features of different finishes for different reasons, finish is finish if it sells a guitar.

But then right there, I always built original guitars for sale not knockoffs because I have more skills than an integrator assembling a kit guitar like this.

[Diamondjimi]

But you can use primer, sealers or even paint to seal the wood. Let it dry a week or two and your topcoat will lay smooth as long as you sand the dried coats first...

If someone chooses to prime directly on the wood it has to be an alkyd based primer. two coats should suffice with a minimum 24hrs cure and sanding between coats.
Primer dries and cures considerably faster than finish coats based on its solvent content and curing agents acting as an accelerant.

[letsrock]

FYI

Gar is 250 years old. If he actually did 10% of the rebuilds/repairs/fixed/restores he claims thats a full career.
Not to mention other areas like cars, IT work the list goes on.

And if he isnt 250 years old than i'm sure he is a robot, therefore making him a tool.

[Diamondjimi]

You catch on quick!

You forgot to mention the fact that GARfuckle has (in the past) enjoyed urinating on you boys...;)

[GAR]

If someone chooses to prime directly on the wood it has to be an alkyd based primer. two coats should suffice with a minimum 24hrs cure and sanding between coats.
Primer dries and cures considerably faster than finish coats based on its solvent content and curing agents acting as an accelerant.

You keep painting your houses, let's leave the guitar finishes to those who actually spray stuff..

alkyd=google goggles

[indeedido]

I'll say this much more about the primer in case another DIYer wants me to lay some knowledge their way. Why do I spray primer and not jump straight to the paint? Well, for a couple of reasons: Primer helps to bond the paint to the body, like I mentioned above. Without it, you may find that your paint is doing strange things as it hits the sealer. The primer tends to make the paint stick nicely, eliminating any “funky” patches in your paint. Primer is also good to use because it allows you to see any flaws that you might’ve missed during the sealing stage. The primer acts like a sealer too, because it fills any leftover grain and/or any little dings or holes that may still be there as well as micro scratches. It can be sanded just like the sealer. Now, I'm moving on. Train back on the tracks.

[indeedido]

Contrary to what the a fore mentioned tool thinks, this is hardly a kit guitar. This is a custom made body and neck. Feel free to call it a clone if you like. I just happened to like the 7VWH, but not the gold.

Here are some "pieces" I've acquired on ebay over the last year. Dimarzio Evolutions in all three positions. I've been able to score the same Ibanez parts as on the production model as well quite inexpensively on the bay. Including a Lo Pro Edge. All hardware is cosmo black, Ibanez's chromed black or grey.

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p301/indeedido/Picture005-7.jpg

[indeedido]

Here I am after two coats of tung oil. I apply a coat with a rag. I rub it in not just wipe it on. Rub a dub dub. After it dries, the next day I use 0000 steel wool to remove the excess. Apply, repeat. I'm going to do 4 coats. Steel wooling in between coats allows the oil to penetrate the wood and seal it somewhat for protection from moisture. Obviously since it isn't a hard finish, technically it is not totally sealed from moisture, but it will be just fine. The wool takes off the top layer and leaves only wood with what has soaked in. After the last bit of wool hits it, it will feel nice and raw.


http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p301/indeedido/Picture007-5.jpg

[indeedido]

Here is the body, it is completely finished and ready to wire up. I hope to wire the pickguard this weekend and mount. I added shielding paint in all the cavities both front and back.


http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p301/indeedido/Picture008-4.jpg




http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p301/indeedido/Picture010.jpg

[GAR]

I'll say this much more about the primer in case another DIYer wants me to lay some knowledge their way. Why do I spray primer and not jump straight to the paint? Well, for a couple of reasons: Primer helps to bond the paint to the body, like I mentioned above. Without it, you may find that your paint is doing strange things as it hits the sealer. The primer tends to make the paint stick nicely, eliminating any “funky” patches in your paint. Primer is also good to use because it allows you to see any flaws that you might’ve missed during the sealing stage. The primer acts like a sealer too, because it fills any leftover grain and/or any little dings or holes that may still be there as well as micro scratches. It can be sanded just like the sealer. Now, I'm moving on. Train back on the tracks.

Now I understand what's going on here: you know absolutely nothing about what aids or inhibits adhesion.

It's not primer, it's not sealer coatings: it is simply a clean, etched surface..

You can etch a surface with a wipe-on prep from a can, you can do it with ANY read me clearly ANY grit sandpaper AT ALL.

But you cannot aid adhesion of a new surface, by coating an older surface with a primer, or a sealer beneath that one.

I'll help you along though, with that gap in your understanding.. what you see in the way of these "patches" or "funky" anything going on, is INHIBITION of adhesion.

It happens when you get your dirty, filthy brisket fingers all over everything. And the way you get around that, is by washing your hands, keeping anything oily away from ALL PAINT materials (sandpapers, tapes, cloths, wiping rags, stir sticks, cardboard bench coverings etc) and after final sand, take your cleanest rag and inspecting with a closeup light souce (I used a simple drop light w/a 30 watt bulb) degrease the surface from any fingerprints and dust off with shots of air.

It can also happen from line contamination of your airlines, especially if you use one of those shitty pancake oilless compressors, or do not use an oil and moisture trap filter in your line before the gun.

Bottom line: if you don't know why you're using something, look it up, ask others who know, and try what they advise - but do NOT come in here professing some method you find true as you use it, to be the truth when it is not.

You use primer, and you like thick finishes. Great. They do not aid adhesion of coatings nor obscure surface contamination problems.. degreasers and traps do that!

[GAR]

I use copper foil for shielding, or at least aluminum foil - that conductive paint has lead in it and is toxic to the blood and liver, it's quite evil stuff.

[GAR]

Here I am after two coats of tung oil. I apply a coat with a rag. I rub it in not just wipe it on. Rub a dub dub. After it dries, the next day I use 0000 steel wool to remove the excess.

I would encourage you to try 320 grit to smooth the globs from the second coat of tung oil - two is overkill btw - and then add trewax or a suitable pure carnuba can wax, the buff the hell off it by hand or by machine if you are comfortable with disk speed.

[ELVIS]

If someone chooses to prime directly on the wood it has to be an alkyd based primer. two coats should suffice with a minimum 24hrs cure and sanding between coats.
Primer dries and cures considerably faster than finish coats based on its solvent content and curing agents acting as an accelerant.

Of course, thats more proper...

But you can seal wood with paint. I've done it and it's lasted over 18 years beautifully...

[Igosplut]

Bottom line: if you don't know why you're using something, look it up, ask others who know, and try what they advise - but do NOT come in here professing some method you find true as you use it, to be the truth when it is not.

Everybody in the whole thread (except Elvis) has told you they don't care about your opinion. And your the only one that doesn't agree. Why don't you fuck off and jam your so-called advice down someone else's throat that asked you for it.


You use primer, and you like thick finishes. Great. They do not aid adhesion of coatings nor obscure surface contamination problems.. degreasers and traps do that!

Primers are FOR adhesion...and you no NOTHING about the truth coward.

[ELVIS]

Am I not correct Igo that you can use paint directly on wood ??

You might soak up some paint depending on the density of the wood...

But even ash which is porous, I have sanded and basically sealed it with several very thin coats of laquer (thin so it dries fast and doesn't soak a mile deep altering the good qualities of selecting ash in the first place) because it almost dries in the air while spraying it...

But Gar never did me anything (that I know of) so i still like him...:D

[indeedido]

Ha, Gar you crack me up you glib son of a bitch. You are a bigger train wreck than Tom Cruise schpieling propaganda at Matt Lauer. When will you learn this thread isn't about you rather the build that I'm doing. I'm not asking for your input simply sharing what I'm doing. I'm not certain what happened to you, you used to seem ok but the last several months you've been a real piece of shit. Much like Mr. T, I pity you....the fool.

[Igosplut]

Am I not correct Igo that you can use paint directly on wood ??

You might soak up some paint depending on the density of the wood...

But even ash which is porous, I have sanded and basically sealed it with several very thin coats of laquer (thin so it dries fast and doesn't soak a mile deep altering the good qualities of selecting ash in the first place) because it almost dries in the air while spraying it...

But Gar never did me anything (that I know of) so i still like him...:D

I never questioned that. But his statement that "primers do not aid adhesion" is total bullshit. Gar can never PROVE anything (other than being wrong) that he does, he just expounds on knowing (he thinks) more than anybody else.

Painting wood isn't rocket science, and in spite of Gar thinking he's the only one who knows Indeedido looks to be doing a great job.

[ELVIS]

get it right!

I PITY THE FOOL!


:elvis:

[ELVIS]

I never questioned that. But his statement that "primers do not aid adhesion" is total bullshit.

Except in the case of any chrysler vehicle from the 90's...:D

I had to remove it all by hand on a neon prior to having a friend repaint it...

He said I could paint it, as I had worked for him in the past, but I asked him to do it as he has more experience with car spraying, and paint aint cheep!

I did spray the new primer though...

[Igosplut]

Except in the case of any chrysler vehicle from the 90's...:D


Don't forget Fords for that list!

I don't do any of my own painting anymore, Have a friend that that's all he does. He has access to a modular spray-and-bake booth, and only uses Spies-Hecker (german) paints. Fabulous stuff, but very pricey....

PM me your Email and I'll shoot you some pics of what I've got going right now, You'd like it...

[GAR]

Ha, Gar you crack me up you glib son of a bitch. You are a bigger train wreck than Tom Cruise schpieling propaganda at Matt Lauer. When will you learn this thread isn't about you rather the build that I'm doing. I'm not asking for your input simply sharing what I'm doing. I'm not certain what happened to you, you used to seem ok but the last several months you've been a real piece of shit. Much like Mr. T, I pity you....the fool.

First of all, this whole site is nothing if it's not a discussion board so by definition should you disinvite my discussion, you invalidate your own thread.

Secondly, as part OF the discussion board and a member specifically having experience in retail repairs and on the OEM side of factory finishes, I'm calling you out on propogating a myth. If you don't like it? Too bad! If you disagree, prove you're correct/

Thirdly, my offerings are given for your refinement, and if you notice the criticism getting harsh there was a reason: such as name-calling or propagation of mistruths.

Lastly, primer is not made for adhesion: it is a scratch filler and a universally mute color backing for almost all colors, to blank out both bare metal sheen and the harsh pinks of bondo body filler prior to the final color coat.

[GAR]

I never questioned that. But his statement that "primers do not aid adhesion" is total bullshit... Indeedido looks to be doing a great job.

NO question, he's doing some good finishes. They're very smooth and he's not wrecking the corners and edges with his color wetsanding. But they're also unnecessily thick. Like your cranium.

The current contention is his unnecessary use of primer, as I've stated before with the wood grain filled, go straight to color.

I also disagree with his use of #0000 steel wool, because one of the things in using it fine as it is, it creates dirt that contaminates the bench and everything in the room, and it can make the neck filthy.

The only thing I use that for is frets, or taking rust off vintage parts with a little dab of WD40 and #0000 without scratching the chrome. I'd never ever use that for oil finished maple surfaces!

[ELVIS]

PM me your Email and I'll shoot you some pics of what I've got going right now, You'd like it...

I wish I could say the same...

I have a Neon ACR that my neighbor backed into not long after the paint job, so I kinda got discouraged. But it has a roll cage and aftermarket suspension and a few other things...

I alsi have a 78 650 Special and a parts bike i'm trying to turn into an early Triumph looking bike with open pipes and no front fender...


:elvis:

[jhale667]

NO question, he's doing some good finishes.

Then quit being a douche about it.

[GAR]

I don't know why anyone would want to defend an inferior finish when good could be "best" so I watch with interest his next project used without primer.

Ash is the worst to seal up, even still I would use a sanding sealer, then a clear, then built up layers to color. Sealing ash grains take a lot of sanding so I can see laziness playing a part in wanting to fill it up with grey autobody primer.. but like I said before at age 16 I found out that's not the most stable way to go.

Yes Elvis, you can paint directly over wood. The reason its not done, is the pigment is much much finer in a clear coat of anything (lacquer, enamel, acrylic, ALL) and cheaper, usually about half depending on choice.

[ELVIS]

I know that...

i wouldn't do it now. That was 18 years ago...

[jhale667]

Clear sanding sealer works great. It's like 10 bucks a can from StewMac.

ColorTone Aerosol Guitar Lacquer at Stewart-MacDonald (http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Finishing_supplies/Finishes_and_solvents/1/ColorTone_Aerosol_Guitar_Lacquer.html)

[GAR]

An 10 ounce aerosol can should be good for about 3 ounces of finish and 6 of thinner.

A do-it-yourselfer should use a quart of Deft lacquer wood finish of any clear kind: sanding sealer, semi-gloss, gloss - doesn't matter if you are just filling porous grain with it.

I have learned that you can reduce the sealer 2:1 with lacquer thinner, and another 10% with acetone. Acetone makes it flash real fast - skinning it over faster keep the fucking bugs off it. I use a throwaway chip brush 3" and brush on sealer, gotten fairly decent results just for building sealer coats I dont use a gun.

Ive done a couple bodies with Krylon, even so, I used spray clear first, then sanded, then color. No primer.

Took a month to dry, but then again, you get what you pay for when going all out with a pressure gun setup and lacquer.

[Igosplut]

Took a month to dry, but then again, you get what you pay for when going all out with a pressure gun setup and lacquer.

Where do you get Lacquer paint to mix in a gun there pinhead?

Lacquer has been outlawed in most all states (MA in 2000 and Cal was before that) because of the solvents released.

Another bullshit story debunked....

[kwame k]

You know what's funny...........Clay seems to think everyone needs his permission to build their real guitars. Paint it with fucking Rust-Oleum if you want, it's your guitar.

[GAR]

Cardinal Industrial Finishes Inc. | South El Monte, CA | Company Profile, Research, News, Information, Contacts (http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/product-compint-0000018851-page.html)

http://www.macraesbluebook.com/search/company.cfm?company=589886

http://www.valspar.com/

http://www.houseofkolor.com/

http://www.sherwin-williams.com/oem/us/eng/products/sherwood_hibild_precat_lacquer/

http://www.pittsburghpaints.com/our_products/specialty/speedline_lacquer/index.htm

[GAR]

You know what's funny...........Clay seems to think everyone needs his permission to build their real guitars. Paint it with fucking Rust-Oleum if you want, it's your guitar.

Those bare-naked shells could use a few coats of Rust-Oleum Hammertone Silver.

[Igosplut]

Automotive Acrylic Lacquer (the kind mixed with Lacquer thinner) has been outlawed in most states because of the 80% thinners released when painting. I see your links are for interior wood Lacquers (except valspar who do not list Lacquer in their search) These Lacquers all (reading it in their product sheets) HAVE to activated with their own perspective catalyst to work/dry. NONE of them activate with Lacquer thinner, in fact two state that thinner react with the catalyst to halt it (aid to cleaning up). And all warn against mixing anything other than the catalyst in that the chemical reaction will not take place. These are not oil based (that can be cut with thinners like acetone) and not the acrylic (that are thinned and propelled with thinners). These are HAPS compliant stand-alone products.

Didn't know that. They say you learn something everyday..

Bottom line is you would of had me, except the way you describe mixing them (with incompatibles). If you had left that out, I might of thought you were telling the truth about something. But this is more "Close, but no cigar"....

[GAR]

Doooooode... no product named "lacquer" requires a hardener to activate it.

Lacquer is naturally-aspirated, meaning the pigments and plasticisers are melted together in a fluid that when the volatile solvents flash off, they lock together forming a film that dries
down thru all layers.

VOC's aren't banned, they're regulated. Nitrocellulose based lacquer is dangerous and explosive because it comes from natural fibers, and acrylic pigments come from petroleum pigments - ie man-made.

There's no difference in thinners, both lacquers are the same, neither is banned.

Nitrocellulose-based is now so expensive you wouldn't want to paint a car or motorcycle with it. Acrylic works but fades.

[jhale667]

VOC's aren't banned, they're regulated. Nitrocellulose based lacquer is dangerous and explosive because it comes from natural fibers, and acrylic pigments come from petroleum pigments - ie man-made.

There's no difference in thinners, both lacquers are the same, neither is banned.

Nitrocellulose-based is now so expensive you wouldn't want to paint a car or motorcycle with it. Acrylic works but fades.

Think you're actually right (statistically it has to happen once in a while) there. I can get the canned Stew Mac Nitro in CA, just can't have it shipped to me Next Day Air or anything, because it's considered "Hazardous".

You could still do a basic clear or solid for under $100 with their stuff.

[GAR]

sheeeyett.. I used to use PPG acrylic waterclear lacquer, $14 per quart.

That was back in 87 though, last I bought.. 100 is nuts! I could do 7 or 8 bodies in clear final coat with a quart!!

[jhale667]

Why would you do Acrylic if you can get Nitro? :D

[kwame k]

Why would you do Acrylic if you can get Nitro? :D
....because that's what the message board said where he steals his info from;)

[Igosplut]

Doooooode... no product named "lacquer" requires a hardener to activate it.

Read your own links dipshit, that's where I got the info..


Lacquer is naturally-aspirated, meaning the pigments and plasticisers are melted together in a fluid that when the volatile solvents flash off, they lock together forming a film that dries
down thru all layers.

VOC's aren't banned, they're regulated. Nitrocellulose based lacquer is dangerous and explosive because it comes from natural fibers, and acrylic pigments come from petroleum pigments - ie man-made.

HERE"S (http://www.airbrushaction.com/) a quote from a professional auto painting website:

Lacquers: Paints that dry by evaporative loss of solvent. The film remains susceptible to attack by the same or similar solvents. Lacquers can be based on nitrocellulose or acrylic resins. These paints are illegal according to V.O.C. regulations in almost every state in the U.S


There are other sites that have that info that I found.
And thats why the links you gave me were different compound- based Lacquers for wood that had to have activators....



There's no difference in thinners, both lacquers are the same, neither is banned.

See above


Nitrocellulose-based is now so expensive you wouldn't want to paint a car or motorcycle with it. Acrylic works but fades.

Most modern paints leave Lacquer paint in the dust. First thing you've said right all day..

[GAR]

Why would you do Acrylic if you can get Nitro? :D

Well, acrylic is a little more durable and easier to maintain.. less susceptible to cracking checking and hazing and doesn't yellow so badly as nitro.

And if what you're quoting for prices on nitro, cheaper.

PC Guardsman Lacquers used to be the one to use in the 80s and they were really good nitro lacquers, but they got bought out and are now called "Guardsman Chemical Inc." and I don't think they make it anymore.

[Diamondjimi]

You keep painting your houses, let's leave the guitar finishes to those who actually spray stuff..

alkyd=google goggles

:rolleyes:

Alkyd ,big word for ya ,eh?

FYI, I own and use a Graco 4900 HVLP (that's high pressure,low volume- just saving ya some Google time ,Bish) and a Graco 495 airless prayer for different types of spraying that I do.

GARunich, since you have shown NO proof of you actually owning a guitar, your Google drivvel holds no water in this forum. Everything you speak of is in past tense. Your post's reek of envy and jealousy directed to those of us here that actually own,build and post gear pic.'s.
Your blabbering ,run on ,jibber jabber post's are about as interesting to read as Blaze or Thomes on med days.
You own nothing , you play nothing. you know nothing ,you are nothing...

Why the fuck are you still here... oh yeah, you're banned from every DLR forum on the internet.... :shiznit: :clown:


Of course, thats more proper...

But you can seal wood with paint. I've done it and it's lasted over 18 years beautifully...

Yes it can be done and work out. Using finish paints directly to unprimed wood ,as you've experienced, has a longer curing time thus leaving the wood surface softer until proper curing has taken place. Which means more time between coats .
Primer has better penetration and dries hard as stone

[rustoffa]

I alsi have a 78 650 Special and a parts bike i'm trying to turn into an early Triumph looking bike with open pipes and no front fender...


Put a knobby tire on the front for extra style points!!!

[GAR]

I moved up from the 390 to the 495, and it does kick ass.. but I'm ready for the Graco 650 - I know every part of an airless and I got my eye on one in a pawn shop down in Lomita for $300 - even if it needs a new pump, my 495 cost me brand new $1700 so this is a steal.

[letsrock]

Am I not correct Igo that you can use paint directly on wood ??

You might soak up some paint depending on the density of the wood...

But even ash which is porous, I have sanded and basically sealed it with several very thin coats of laquer (thin so it dries fast and doesn't soak a mile deep altering the good qualities of selecting ash in the first place) because it almost dries in the air while spraying it...

But Gar never did me anything (that I know of) so i still like him...:D

yes you can paint directly on wood. There is no law against it.

[indeedido]

Here is a quick sidebar related to my build.

In my travels to find a body and a neck, I came across this guy at Legacy One Guitars. He markets on ebay under Deep 6. Turns out the guy is a crook and a HUGE piece of shit. There are hundreds of pages under a thread at jemsite.com about this guy. He is the one I bought my original neck from and went round and round with my CC company to eventially get my money back. More on that story in a moment.

Here is the part you may find interesting. On his website, Welcome to Legacy One Guitars (http://theguitarboard.com/), he has many guitars he's made and offers. most of the pics look great. Inlay work looks good. More on that later....Any way, click on guitars and then the one titled IbanED. He has posted his discussion with Edward's lawyers. Check it out and discuss. :biggrin:

[indeedido]

The Ultimate Embarrassment VH Guitar

Not for sale!

Although Ed is a very nice, fan loving, talented,
non-drug using-incredible role model, he doesn't want you to own a red, black and white guitar.

I've been told this many times by Tracy Taub of ELVH, Inc.

My latest conversation with Tracy went EXACTLY, WORD FOR WORD, like this:

From: Tracy Taub
To: Deep 6
Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 5:01 PM

Chris,

Please remove the following black and yellow striped guitar from your site for sale.
This is a violation of another ELVH, Inc copyright (Franky Design VAu 544-060).

MY RESPONSE.....

From: Deep 6 [mailto:deep6@2legacy.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 2:54 PM
To: Tracy Taub
Subject: Re: Van Halen Guitars for the masses!

Are you serious.... That son of a bitch just cancelled $1500 worth of concert tickets (3 VIP Tickets for the 4/5/2008 show) becauce he can't keep off the drugs long enough to finish a tour, but he still has enough clarity to worry about a 3 year old guitar body I found in my basement. You guys must be proud of your clients. They are super classy.

Luckily "I LOVE ALL ACCESS" is a class act, and they refunded my money. You're company and CLIENTS could learn a lot from them.

Tracy as I've always said, "I'm sure you're personally not the devil." That being said, I hope you like working for him.

Tell Ed, well never mind don't tell him anything, and yes, I will remove the body from my site.

Have a nice day. It's always a pleasure hearing from you.

Chris

TRACY'S RESPONSE

Chris,

None of the dates were cancelled, and the new concert dates were just announced yesterday.

None of this had to do with drugs, and that being said, thank you for your cooperation.

And yes, I do enjoy working for EVH.

Tracy

Tracy Taub
ELVH, Inc.
ttaub@nksf.com



So let me recap the fun parts......

Chris-Tracy as I've always said, "I'm sure you're personally not the devil." That being said, I hope you like working for him.

Tracy-yes, I do enjoy working for EVH.

That's awesome.

[indeedido]

Now for the guys' work. See anything unusually wrong with these pics of the neck I bought from him????



http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p301/indeedido/Picture008-3.jpg



http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p301/indeedido/Picture004-6.jpg



http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p301/indeedido/Picture003-4.jpg

[indeedido]

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p301/indeedido/Picture005-5.jpg

Look at the crater in that scarf joint!!!!!!!





http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p301/indeedido/Picture006-2.jpg


Look at the gap under the frets? Think he cut them a little deep?

[GAR]

yes you can paint directly on wood. There is no law against it.

That's not the point, the point was, clear lacquers or enamels or ANYTHING see-thru of a finish is of a finer particle and fills grain better than solid, opaque finish.

Sure you can paint directly onto the body, but you waste material, get more buildup faster without filling the grain and therefore wind up sanding most of it off till the grain settles, and because the grain isn't filled in underneath it will keep shrinking for 2 months or more.

So in the long run, even using a fuckin' can of Krylon clear lacquer just dusting it on, till you get about 4 coats before sanding would be $6 well spent just in time savings alone before spraying a color coat.

[Diamondjimi]

I moved up from the 390 to the 495, and it does kick ass.. but I'm ready for the Graco 650 - I know every part of an airless and I got my eye on one in a pawn shop down in Lomita for $300 - even if it needs a new pump, my 495 cost me brand new $1700 so this is a steal.

Another load of horseshit.

You could'nt paint your fucking toes, Dumbass.

You have NOTHING !

[GAR]

Fender uses a 695 in production, it's good for lacquer, latex, literally anything. No shit! And they're so easy to clean the pump, you can do it yourself.. the ball, the packing seals, the whole damn thing is butt simple. I've done it!

I'm getting that 695.. I always felt like I could use just a wee tad more pressure, and I noticed the little difference in gal per minute flow meant alot at the gun between the 390 and the 495 that that was going to be the next step for me anyways.

[GAR]

Now for the guys' work. See anything unusually wrong with these pics of the neck I bought from him????

Oh fucking hell man!

Did you order that thing from the guy Sarge used? (edit: okay I read it, "jemsite" guy..)

I think you need to return that neck, dude. If you can't, you'll have to take the frets out and that fingerboard so far down it's almost a waste.

If I was you, I'd just flip it. You're FUCKED. If this was a custom order for a guy off your website, he's not gonna be happy with it.

Of course, you could just leave the fingerboard alone, fill the fret slots with epoxy dabs mixed with rosewood dust sanded off the fingerboard side, then paint the neck up to a line matching the other side.. that would work for an ebay auction but for a custom order no way.

If you can't get the guy to take the neck back, order another one 50% off on condition he doesn't send you a second.

This one's a SECOND. The floyd nut ledge explains it all! It's tilted to the same degree as the fingerboard radius, which says there must've been some junk between the pinrouter template and the bit.

That or the guy's stupid!

[indeedido]

This isn't my current neck, it is the first one I bought that caused the delay. I emailed the guy and he said he didn't know what could have went wrong. That was the last communication I got. I emailed him dozens of times and left him dozens of voice messages. I finally got my credit card company involved as I paid him via paypal. Took four months but I got my money back. That thing was horrible. That nut shelf tells the story alone. How could anyone not see that, and go ahead and ship it. There is no way that thing would have played correctly. One side of the fingerboard was thicker than the other. Come on!!

[jhale667]

I can't believe the dude even sent the thing to you with a straight face...holy crap!

[GAR]

He knew what he was doing: I checked his website and this is typical of people who wanna play the CNC game and trade cad files in forums.. but are too STOUID to create a firm lockdown jig such as using toggle clamps so the piece doesn't move around during milling.

That's what happened here. But the frets tell the real story why that thing wouldn't play, that sight shot shows you'll be real busy with the file trying to work some kind of level into 'em.

That guy knew exactly what he was doing, because he wasted 30 bucks in materials and knew the deal was shot when he pulled the unfretted blank out of the jig.

[katie]

:

FYI, I own and use a Graco 4900 HVLP (that's high pressure,low volume- just saving ya some Google time ,Bish) and a Graco 495 airless prayer for different types of spraying that I do.



http://wwwdelivery.superstock.com/WI/223/926/PreviewComp/SuperStock_926-129160.jpg

X

[Diamondjimi]

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h217/jhale667/Insult%20comic/floppy_fail.jpg

[jhale667]

Alright kids...play nice.



:guitar:

[Diamondjimi]

:biggrin:

[katie]

What a lovely paint job diamondidiot!

:lmao:

[Diamondjimi]

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h217/jhale667/Insult%20comic/Edited.jpg

[Diamondjimi]

:hitch:

;)

[katie]

Who's the woman in the pic?

[GAR]

Cutoff shot of a dog humping a gal. Mods will delete if they see the whole shot.

[Diamondjimi]

It's already been adjusted.

I know,I know ...You wanna see the dog's meatbag. :rolleyes:

Simmer down GARfuckle there's an unedited version floating around you can wank to...
:biggrin:

[katie]

I'm the only female that gives diamondthingy any attention since his mum died.


Cute

X

:lmao:

[Diamondjimi]

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h217/jhale667/Insult%20comic/Edited.jpg

[katie]

http://www.kidsdomain.com/holiday/winter/color/groundhog90.gif

[indeedido]

Back to the topic, I have completed the tung oil. The 0000 steel wool makes a very minor mess, not even worth talking about really. Does a great job taking the tun oil down without removing wood. I'm sure sandpaper works fine, but for me steel wool is where it is at. Anywho, I got jiggy wit it Sunday morning and wet sanded the headstock. 320, 400, 600, 800, 1000, 1200, 1500, 2000 grit. I'm sure you can stop at 1200 or 1500, but going all the way to 2000 is reaching perfection. Zero scratches, smooth as silk. I don't buff with a machine, I do it by hand. So going to 2000 is the way to go if you are buffing by hand. I use 3M Perfect It II Rubbing Compound. If you go to 2000 grit, that is all you need. Here it is flat after the 2000 grit.


http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p301/indeedido/Picture001-1.jpg



Here it is after buffing. It was so shiny and had so much glare from the sun it was hard to photograph, so this pic doesn't do it justice. The white washed it out, I'll try and take a better pic to represent the shine


http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p301/indeedido/Picture003.jpg

[indeedido]

Check out the fun wiring diagram for the electronics. I'm using the over complicated Jem 5 way switch.

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p301/indeedido/JEM7-1.gif

[jhale667]

I'm using the over complicated Jem 5 way switch.




Is that one of the ones marketed as a "mega" or super-switch? :)

Megaswitch E-Model at Stewart-MacDonald (http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Electronics,_pickups/Components:_Switches_and_knobs/1/Megaswitches.html)

http://www.stewmac.com/product_images/1lg/3484/Megaswitch_E-Model_Detail.jpg

http://www.stewmac.com/catalog/product_detail/3484_detail.gif

Going by the top right diagram above, and comparing it to the one in your picture, looks like it accomplishes the same thing...

[GAR]

I dunno bout you Indeedido - here you go again with another forged decal.

[jhale667]

I dunno bout you Indeedido - here you go again with another forged decal.

So you cap on him for putting logos on his replicas, and me for not?? :rolleyes:

[indeedido]

I make a better decal than Fender. At least I can hide mine so it looks silk screened. Fender's show the edge all the way around the decal. If you're going to do something, do it right! I go all the way when I make a guitar replica. I would never pass it off as anything other than what it is. Plus all Ibanez lovers would know right off the bat it was a fake. Just like Elvis spotting the fake Fenders. I just like the challenge of making a logo. It's not quite as easy as it seems. I also don't care for how Ibanez puts their logos on. They use vinyl logos that are a few mm thick. I think that is the easy way out but looks cheap. I like the silk screened look.

The switch I'm using is an Ibanez switch called the VLX-91. It is like a megaswitch in that it gives you infinite coil tapping options. I got all Ibanez parts off of ebay so it may as well be an Ibanez so I'm not ashamed of the logo. Just didn't have to pay $2500 for it!

[GAR]

Fender would do two shots of clear, sanded with dry 320, then the logo and one more shot of lacquer.

So what if the edges show, in the preCBS ones there was no clear overcoat of the decal at ALL!

[GAR]

So you cap on him for putting logos on his replicas, and me for not??

Serial numbers not logos.

[ELVIS]

fender would do two shots of clear, sanded with dry 320, then the logo and one more shot of lacquer.

So what if the edges show, in the precbs ones there was no clear overcoat of the decal at all!

wrong!

Wrong!

[jhale667]

Serial numbers not logos.


Again, you're a dummy...mine do have serial numbers. :hee:

[GAR]

wrong!

Wrong!

Shh I'm trying to "help".

[GAR]

Again, you're a dummy...mine do have serial numbers. :hee:

So if you find one stolen the police report you submit to your renter's insurance co. will say "serial number 0001, one electric guitar made from wood."

[ELVIS]

He can put a personal serial number on it under the clear for theft and identification...

[indeedido]

I put all kinds of stuff under the neck, and in the neck pocket. Anything can be scratched off, but most people don't take the necks off. At least not for quite some time. So it's as good a place as any to put an id

[GAR]

I put all kinds of stuff under the neck, and in the neck pocket. Anything can be scratched off, but most people don't take the necks off. At least not for quite some time. So it's as good a place as any to put an id

How about something visible to an idiot cop in a stolen merchandise raid? Cops are pretty fucken street-stupid, if you dont make that serial plain as day, they're not gonna disassemble the guitar for ID'ing.. and anotehr thing, lets say you spot the thing in a local band and call 911.

Idiot cop shows up and asks the guitar player in the club to take the neck off to ID the thing which he could rightfully deny and leave you screwed. Then he goes home tipped off to the hidden ID and scrapes or paints over it.

NIce thinking Sherlock: that's like that Max Guitars guy who puts little magnets and BB's under the headstock overlay - he goes to a guitar show and tells the vintage seller asking $60,000 for his tobacco '58 'paul' "Oh yeah I remember doing this one, look there's a magnet under here.. yup, did that one in 1993 I think.." to watch the guys' jaw drop as his whole world collapses in his little brain...

If you're gonna fake stuff, fake something you're gonna get back at the rate of 50 or 60 bucks an hour. Not a piece of shit Ibanez that has 1987 written all over it - plus if you're gonna do this - why promote Ibanez?

Promote yourself, make a logo decal of your own and have something noone could have being, your own brand.

[jhale667]

FYI, GAyR...you can also have radio IDs implanted in the bodies, similar to the ones they implant in pets.

And why do you care (or think anyone even remotely gives a shit what YOU think) about what someone else builds in the first place?

[indeedido]

How about something visible to an idiot cop in a stolen merchandise raid? Cops are pretty fucken street-stupid, if you dont make that serial plain as day, they're not gonna disassemble the guitar for ID'ing.. and anotehr thing, lets say you spot the thing in a local band and call 911.

Idiot cop shows up and asks the guitar player in the club to take the neck off to ID the thing which he could rightfully deny and leave you screwed. Then he goes home tipped off to the hidden ID and scrapes or paints over it.

NIce thinking Sherlock: that's like that Max Guitars guy who puts little magnets and BB's under the headstock overlay - he goes to a guitar show and tells the vintage seller asking $60,000 for his tobacco '58 'paul' "Oh yeah I remember doing this one, look there's a magnet under here.. yup, did that one in 1993 I think.." to watch the guys' jaw drop as his whole world collapses in his little brain...

If you're gonna fake stuff, fake something you're gonna get back at the rate of 50 or 60 bucks an hour. Not a piece of shit Ibanez that has 1987 written all over it - plus if you're gonna do this - why promote Ibanez?

Promote yourself, make a logo decal of your own and have something noone could have being, your own brand.


If I see someone playing MY guitar out, he'll be the one calling the cops because I can and would serve a beat down like it's nobody's business. I repo my own stuff.

I wouldn't exactly call it a fake. I'm not trying to fool anyone. Anyone with common sense can tell this is not an actual Ibanez. I didn't go to those lengths. I could have. I could have made a serial number for the back of the headstock. I could have used reflective gold vinyl for the logo. Blah blah blah. I'm building a guitar that I want. Not for you, not for sale. Like I said I like the 7VWH but not the gold. There is nothing special about the wood Ibanez, Gibson, or anyone else uses. Other than not "Ibanez wood" it has all the same parts. If I want to put a logo on my guitar, my prerogative. I don't have to explain myself to you or anyone else. Don't be jealous, I'll make you a guitar too. :fufu:

[jhale667]

Yeah, go ahead and get started on GAyR's plywood Charvette replica...:lmao:

[Coyote]

Is that one of the ones marketed as a "mega" or super-switch? :)

Megaswitch E-Model at Stewart-MacDonald (http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Electronics,_pickups/Components:_Switches_and_knobs/1/Megaswitches.html)

http://www.stewmac.com/product_images/1lg/3484/Megaswitch_E-Model_Detail.jpg

http://www.stewmac.com/catalog/product_detail/3484_detail.gif

Going by the top right diagram above, and comparing it to the one in your picture, looks like it accomplishes the same thing...

The lower left looks interesting...

[GAR]

Yeah, go ahead and get started on GAyR's plywood Charvette replica...:lmao:

Charvette body, Jackson jap neck and not a bad player.

I could think of a worse buys for the $80 bucks I have into it, it's one of 30 junkers I should ditch on ebay ..

[GAR]

If I see someone playing MY guitar out, he'll be the one calling the cops because I can and would serve a beat down like it's nobody's business. I repo my own stuff.

What if some guy truly bought your stolen guitar off the street for $100 bucks? Then you've got an innocent victim of assault at your expense, that's not gonna work.

I've thought all that thru before, when I saw my guitars being sold all over Vegas. Think I didn't think of that - when it comes right down to it that bullshit doesn't work, it's a civil matter that's clouded with posession rights.

THIS is why Im saying, parts guitars need some kind of a name and serial number that can be listed. Not because you chose do copy a jap guitar design.. I'm never jealous of that, to me it's a waste of time when you could design your own thing..

[indeedido]

I've got a cool idea I'm flushing out for an original build. It is going to be themed on a car. I want it to have racing stripes down the center and gray and red primer showing through like it was a hot rod clunker. I see a lot of hot rodders build the engine first and paint later, so they are driving these bondo filled primered cars that look like shit but run like hell. I want to translate that into a guitar. I want to put some original 1967 Camaro badges on it. I've got the cursive Camaro logo from the front quarter panel and also the Camaro by Chevrolet trunk lid emblem as well as the 350 badge. Both would look cool. Also trying to figure out how to wire gauges into the body, maybe even a voltmeter. But the more I think about it, it would be cool to have a Trans Am themed body too with the firebird decal over the entire body. Black and gold colors. I've done originals before, I like originals and clones.

[GAR]

You're thinking of the "Rat Rod" movement going on right now.. 50's-60's trashy chic performance.

[indeedido]

Not sure what that means:umm:

[Hardrock69]

...I could think of a worse buys for the $80 bucks I have into it, it's one of 30 junkers I should ditch on ebay ..

All belonging to someone else, no doubt. :hee:

[Igosplut]

I've got a cool idea I'm flushing out for an original build. It is going to be themed on a car. I want it to have racing stripes down the center and gray and red primer showing through like it was a hot rod clunker. I see a lot of hot rodders build the engine first and paint later, so they are driving these bondo filled primered cars that look like shit but run like hell. I want to translate that into a guitar. I want to put some original 1967 Camaro badges on it. I've got the cursive Camaro logo from the front quarter panel and also the Camaro by Chevrolet trunk lid emblem as well as the 350 badge. Both would look cool. Also trying to figure out how to wire gauges into the body, maybe even a voltmeter. But the more I think about it, it would be cool to have a Trans Am themed body too with the firebird decal over the entire body. Black and gold colors. I've done originals before, I like originals and clones.

I have a bunch of trim off cars from the 50s thru 70s. I'll look and see if I can come up with something unique for you.

[Igosplut]

You're thinking of the "Rat Rod" movement going on right now.. 50's-60's trashy chic performance.

Nice google but that's not what it was about at all coward...

[GAR]

I have a bunch of trim off cars from the 50s thru 70s. I'll look and see if I can come up with something unique for you.

If you find an armrest for a 72 AMC Hornet, I need one to spruce up my Fernandes strat copy headstock..

[indeedido]

Back on topic again, pickguard wired up. Let me say this was the biggest pain in the ass. The Ibanez switch is so complex and so small. I do not ever want to do this again! Back of the pickguard covered in shielding foil.


http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p301/indeedido/Picture013.jpg



http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p301/indeedido/Picture015.jpg

[indeedido]

And finally, new guitar day! All wired up and put together. Ain't she purdy. I did a quick set up just to be sure it all worked. Need to adjust the action and truss rod once the tension takes hold. Plays great even before a real setup.


http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p301/indeedido/Picture016.jpg


http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p301/indeedido/Picture017.jpg



http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p301/indeedido/Picture018.jpg

[GAR]

I'll offer no electrical tips on straightening out that bird-nest of a wiring job. That's hopeless!

[indeedido]

It's not really as bad as it looks. There is just a lot of coil tapping going on. I wound the wires together prior to putting into the cavity. No biggie.

[kwame k]

Fucking looks sweet, dude! :rockin::jammin:

[Diamondjimi]

I'll offer no electrical tips on straightening out that bird-nest of a wiring job. That's hopeless!

Moron! :rolleyes:
Couldn't find anything on Google?:biggrin:

Great work Indeedido !

[Diamondjimi]

Charvette body, Jackson jap neck and not a bad player.


http://www.bundleofwarmth.com/firewood/images/products/hickory_firewood.jpg

[kwame k]

:hee:

[indeedido]

Thanks! It was a labor of love. Took me 9 months to give birth but well worth it. Next time I won't start more than one project at a time.

[GAR]

Were you able to replane and fret that fucked-up neck to use, or did you just order one from Allparts. I forget if you had talked about that because I don't recall an outcome..

[ELVIS]

http://www.bundleofwarmth.com/firewood/images/products/hickory_firewood.jpg

Dude, that's not plywood...

[al3d]

indeedido¸, very nice build man. and as for paint go, you did it the right way..:)

I did'nt go trough the whole thread, but where did you get the neck?

[indeedido]

Were you able to replane and fret that fucked-up neck to use, or did you just order one from Allparts. I forget if you had talked about that because I don't recall an outcome..

I sent that turd back to the guy and fought to get my money back. That was part of the hold up of my build. I was waiting to get that resolved.

I bought a different neck from Chris Woods, Christopher Woods Guitar (http://christopherwoods.com/)

He has a ton of options for inlays. Even LED lights if that is what you're into. This neck is superior to the fucked up piece of shit I got from another place.

[al3d]

I sent that turd back to the guy and fought to get my money back. That was part of the hold up of my build. I was waiting to get that resolved.

I bought a different neck from Chris Woods, Christopher Woods Guitar (http://christopherwoods.com/)

He has a ton of options for inlays. Even LED lights if that is what you're into. This neck is superior to the fucked up piece of shit I got from another place.

What is the OTHER place you ordered from?..could be usefull in order to avoid that place..:)

[indeedido]

Legacy One. Avoid them like the plague. Body was ok from Legacy One, just needed some final sanding and de-burring in the routes, but the neck was total shit. He even acknowledges the bodies have no complaints but the necks get many complaints. If I were going to do it again, I'd go with Jaden Rose in England. Jaden Rose Customs :: The Guitar Workshop (http://www.guitarworkshop-uk.com/)

He has no complaints and the wait time is better. All the American luthiers making these have a horrible rep for keeping to the time they quote. They'll quote 4-6 weeks, and most people are still waiting a year later.

[Seshmeister]

Thanks! It was a labor of love. Took me 9 months to give birth but well worth it. Next time I won't start more than one project at a time.

If you add up the hours, take off the costs and compare it to a real one how much did you make per hour?

So if a new one was $2000, you were $400 for parts and spent 160 hours on it that would be $10 an hour.

[indeedido]

A new one is $2500. I paid $140 for the body and $250 for the neck. $150 for pickups and $100 for the bridge. All in all I have probably $700 or $800 in it.

[Seshmeister]

And how many hours work?

I'm just wondering about the economics of all this, my pal has started a luther nightclass and I'm not sure if it's worth all the hassle.

Then again it's different if you find it good fun.

[indeedido]

I don't really know how much time I spent. I enjoy the process and take my time to do it right. If I were mass producing these, it wouldn't be a viable income. I'm too slow!! If I tried, I could have one done probably in a week. Most of the time is spent waiting for things to dry/cure. I can get all the sand sealer on in a day. Takes 5 minutes to put on and I wait an hour in between coats. I can sand it/level it the next day pretty fast. Probably an hour or two. Then prime or paint, whatever you choose. If you don't make mistakes or get any runs, you could do it in a weekend. A solid color is a breeze. When you do a pattern or graphics that takes longer. I need the paint to cure a bit before I start pressing tape onto it. This one took so long because I had another project taking my time and issues with the neck. I didn't want to start painting the body until I could be sure the neck fit, especially since it came from two different makers. I had to shave a few mm out of the pocket to make the neck fit.

[Diamondjimi]

http://www.bundleofwarmth.com/firewood/images/products/hickory_firewood.jpg

Dude, that's not plywood...

Exactly!

A multi-lam(plywood) guitar= the stuff in the picture... ;)

:biggrin:

[Diamondjimi]

I could think of a worse buys for the $80 bucks I have into it, it's one of 30 junkers I should ditch on ebay ..

30??? Ahahahahaa... your next alias should be The Guitarbage Man!

:lmao:


:fufu:

[jhale667]

Great work! :D

[ELVIS]

Then prime or paint, whatever you choose. If you don't make mistakes or get any runs, you could do it in a weekend. A solid color is a breeze. When you do a pattern or graphics that takes longer. I need the paint to cure a bit before I start pressing tape onto it.

You really need to wait between two weeks and a month for a finish to cure before final polish, especially on wood...

It's amazing how much it will shrink in that time...

Tell me what your new white finish looks like in two to three months...


:elvis:

[indeedido]

I do, I just mean't I could get it painted in that much time. I always let my projects sit for 2 months before I ever polish them. I should have stated that.