NASA plans on Moon trip.

[letsrock]

U.S. Shoots for the Moon, This Time to Stay - TIME (http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1905344,00.html?cnn=yes)

Say this for the U.S. space program: we may have spent the past 40 years mostly ignoring the moon, but when we go back, we go back with a bang. Later today — if weather conditions and hardware permit — NASA will launch its much anticipated and deeply imaginative Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter (LRO), the first American spacecraft of any kind to make a lunar trip since 1999. Not only will the LRO help us study the moon in greater detail than ever before, it should also give us our first look at the six Apollo landing sites since we abandoned the historic campgrounds two generations ago.

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In the past few years, the moon has once again become the hot place to go. Three countries with little spacefaring history — Japan, China and India — have all sent probes moonward since 2007, and China in particular has made it clear that it plans to return, first with more robot ships, then with astronauts.
(See a photo-essay of the world's most competitive space programs.)

In 2004, the U.S. restarted its own lunar program when President George W. Bush announced a new commitment to have astronauts back on the moon by 2020 and on Mars in the years after. There was surely some political motivation in Bush's election-year proposal, but it was followed up by hardheaded planning and real NASA action. With the shuttles scheduled to be mothballed by 2010, the space agency has committed itself to building and flying a lunar-capable manned ship by 2015, and though the Obama Administration is reconsidering the entire lunar program, so far it's still on track. The goal is to station astronauts on the moon for months, not days, to conduct lunar studies and as training for later attempts to live on Mars. As NASA knew in the 1950s, however, before you can send humans to the moon, you need to send robotic scouts. And that's where the LRO gets involved.
(Watch a video of the first broadcast from the moon.)

The 13-ft.-long, 2-ton spacecraft is not designed for a landing, but rather will settle into a low lunar orbit just 30 miles (48 km) above the surface, or about half the altitude at which the Apollos flew. The ship will be fairly stuffed with scientific instruments, one of the most important — if least sexy sounding — of which will be its laser altimeter. The altimeter will bounce laser beams off the lunar surface and, by measuring the speed at which they reflect back up, calculate the moon's topography to within inches. That's critical since long-term lunar stays require finding not only hospitable places to land, but also hospitable places to establish a home.
(See the space moon race.)

"We're going to measure the topography with the level of detail civil engineers need when they're building a building," says Jim Garvin, one of the lead developers of the LRO and the chief scientist at NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center, which will run the mission.

Just as important for choosing where to homestead is knowing the local weather — or at least the local temperature. Nobody pretends that the moon will be a thermally comfortable place to live, but few people realize just how punishing its climate extremes are — a torch-like 250 degrees Fahrenheit (120 Celsius) during the day and a paralyzing -382 Fahrenheit (-230 Celsius) at night. What's more, says Garvin, "the moon goes through this dance every 28 days." Those kinds of cycling extremes can be murder on hardware, and until we know more about the hot-cold rhythm, we can't build properly to withstand it.
(See the 50 highs and lows of space exploration.)

Easily the most exciting piece of hardware aboard the ship, however — for lay lunarphiles at least — will be the camera. Even the best reconnaissance photography before the Apollo visits missed things, which is why Apollo 11's landing almost came to grief when Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin found themselves piloting their lander over an unexpected boulder field just seconds before touchdown. That's less likely to happen this time, thanks to a camera that can visualize objects as small as a few feet across. What's more, since the LRO will be in a polar orbit instead of an equatorial one — or, vertical rather than horizontal — the moon's 28-day rotation will eventually carry virtually every spot on the surface beneath the camera's lens.

"The moon will essentially walk around underneath the orbiter," says Garvin. "With the detail we get in the photographs, every picture will be like a mini-landing." That includes photos of the Apollo sites, all half-dozen of which should have their portraits snapped. If NASA gets lucky, Garvin believes the first such images could be in hand by the 40th anniversary of Apollo 11, on July 20.

For all of the LRO's versatility, one thing it can't do with much precision is look for water. That's a problem, since astronauts living on the surface will need plenty of the stuff, and bringing it all with them is out of the question. (A single pint of water weighs about a pound, and every pound you fly to the moon costs about $50,000.) The LRO, however, will not be traveling alone. Launched on the same booster will be another entire spacecraft known as the Lunar Crater Observation and Sensing Satellite (LCROSS).

Shortly after the paired ships enter space, the LCROSS will separate from the LRO and embark on its own trajectory toward the moon. The LCROSS will lag behind, spending four months in a sweeping orbit that will carry it around both Earth and the moon; throughout its flight, it will remain attached to its upper stage rocket, separating from it only during its final approach to the moon. The rocket stage will then speed ahead, aiming for a deliberate crash in one of several craters in the south lunar pole in which the LRO's sensors will have detected signs of water ice. The collision will send a debris plume as high as 6.2 miles (10 km) into space and the LCROSS itself, trailing four minutes behind, will fly through it. As it does, its instruments will analyze the chemistry of the plume, looking particularly for water ice, hydrocarbons and other organics that will break down as they are exposed to their first flashes of sunlight in billions of years. Shortly after that, the LCROSS, too, will complete its suicide plunge, smashing into the ground just miles from the first impact site.

It will take about a year before the surviving LRO completes its more leisurely mission, and then another decade at least before humans are once again treading lunar soil. The LRO and LCROSS should play a big part in bringing that eventual return a little closer — and making it a lot safer.

See an interactive graphic of landing sites on the moon.

[Seshmeister]

They should strap a moon landing conspiracy idiot like Joe Rogan to the top of the fucking rocket so that he can be convinced...

[letsrock]

Maybe they will.
Or maybe they want to find the remains of moon base Alpha.:hee:

[Seshmeister]

Beware - spoilers from 1975 :)


This is the first article by the Isaac Asimov (the second was published in Cue magazine.) Most of the comments are surprisingly positive- the scientific errors are largely "dramatic necessity".


Is `Space 1999' More Fi Than Sci?

New York Times, Sect. 2, pg 1, Sunday, Sept. 28, 1975
By Isaac Asimov

A science-fiction television show ought to be reviewed, it seems to me, not only for its dramatic quality, the acting, the plot, but especially for scientific accuracy. Why? Well, simply because television is a powerful educational influence. Why should it contribute unnecessarily to the raising of a misinformed generation?

There are three possible sources of scientific errors in a television show --errors made out of dramatic necessity, which one can be lenient with; errors made out of commercial necessity, which one can sigh over; and errors made out of ignorance, which are intolerable.

Suppose we consider each type of error in connection with Space: 1999, a new hour-long series that premiered last Sunday on Channel 11 [Sept. 21, 1975 on WPIX, NYC]. It deals with a colony of human beings on the moon who are permanently marooned there when the moon leaves its orbit and goes drifting up into space.

One dramatic fact about the moon is that its surface gravity is one-sixth that of the earth. For a given muscular effort you could lift your center of gravity six times as high on the moon and you could lift six times the weight you can here on earth. Also, you would rise more slowly when you jumped, and fall back more slowly, too.

In Space: 1999, the surface gravity effects on the moon are captured perfectly. The characters move with a slow long-stepping high-bounding grace. When one man must throw another, he does so with astonishing ease, and the thrown man describes the proper parabola. (Slow motion filming and, I suspect, the ingenious use of wires are responsible for these effects). I have never seen anywhere, so precise a simulation of low gravity. I marvelled and enjoyed the sight. (Other special effects were taken care of with equal care.)

So far, there is no error. Within the lunar base, however --indoors, so to speak-- it was clear that everyone was operating under normal earth gravity. There was some passing reference to artificial gravity --which, of we accept the general theory of relativity, is not theoretically possible, but never mind, for it is an error forced by dramatic necessity. You just can't have your characters moving slow motion throughout the show and throughout all future shows in the series.

A more serious error involves the methods by which the moon is blasted out of orbit. On the show, nuclear wastes apparently stored on the moon somehow heat up and explode. The reasons for this are not made luminously clear. (Although nuclear wastes can heat up and melt, they can't possibly be involved in a nuclear explosion.) Still, there is enough talk of magnetic field to give the explosion a certain surface plausibility. But having exploded, the show's nuclear waste canisters act as rockets, blowing off exhausts in one direction, and driving the moon in the other.

The problem here is that the mass of the moon is being underestimated. If all the nuclear waste the earth were to produce in the next 24 years were placed in one spot, and if it were all to explode (assuming it could explode) it would not budge the moon much or alter its orbit very noticeably -- let alone accelerate it to such a degree that the people of the lunar base would be pinned immovably to the ground. But that's an error out of dramatic necessity, too, and I'm willing to let it go. The moon has to be gotten out of orbit somehow, and at least a scientific principle was correctly, if exaggeratedly, used for the purpose.

What about errors out of commercial necessity? There is one in the very title Space: 1999. The series begins in A.D. 1999, 24 years from now. There is no reasonable possibility that we will have a lunar base so large, so advanced, and so self-contained in a mere 24 years. It would have been more plausible to call the show "Space 2049" and allow another half-century.

I suspect, though, that the title arose out of a conviction on the part of those who thought of the series as a potential money-maker that the viewing audience is so egocentric, so limited in its perception of the universe, that it would not watch anything it thought would not happen in its own lifetime. Furthermore, the very successful picture 2001 was probably in everyone's mind --and it would be one- upped by "1999."

And mistakes out of ignorance? Are there any? Alas, yes.

There are a number of references, for instance, to the "dark side of the moon." The show opens with a caption reading "Dark Side of the Moon" and it is on the "dark side" that the nuclear wastes are stored and where they explode.

Yet there is no dark side of the moon. A dark side of any world is the side that faces permanently away from the sun. One side of the moon does indeed face permanently away from the earth, but not from the sun, and every part of the moon gets both day and night in two-week alternations. The side of the moon that is permanently turned away from the earth is the FAR SIDE, not the dark side.

Even if this misuse of a phrase makes no difference, why not be right just for the fun of it? But there is a difference. Why should a popular TV show mislead youngsters into thinking that half the moon is a land of perennial night --which it isn't?

Incidentally, of the big nuclear explosions took place on the far side of the moon, the rocket action would serve to drive the moon toward the earth, something the program doesn't mention. The moon's original orbital motion would keep it from hitting the earth, but it would skim by at an abnormally close distance (how close would depend on the force of the explosion) and would create disastrous tidal effects. [In the episode, it is mentioned that the Earth suffers geological distruption consistent with this]

Sometimes one can't be sure whether an error is produced out of dramatic necessity or out of ignorance. For example, mention was made on several occasions during the initial program ["Breakaway"] of a new planet named "Meta." It is supposed to be close enough to the moon to be seen clearly through telescopes as a large sphere. It has an atmosphere; it is sending out space signals; it seems to bear intelligent life. The mean of the lunar base are preparing to send out a manned probe to the planet.

But where did Meta come from? If Meta is the planet of another sun, where is that sun? If it is as near to earth and the moon as Meta seems to be, then the earth and the moon are being baked to death.

If Meta isn't circling a sun, but just invaded our solar system on its own, then it must be frozen solid through all the eons of its interstellar journey and hence is very unlikely to bear our kind of life. [The episode does not make it clear, but Meta is supposed to be a interstellar planet entering the solar system. Large planets like Jupiter ("gas giants") generate most of their heat themselves, and would not be frozen in deep space.]

If on the other hand, it has been a member of our solar system all along, if we can see it in 1999, then we should also be able to see it in 1975 --but, of course we don't. As a matter of fact, any planet that could be close enough to the earth in 1999 to invite a manned expedition of exploration must be close enough right now in 1975 to be seen by astronomers.

Well, then, is Meta there out of dramatic necessity? Will our heros and heroines be interacting with it in the next episode because the effect of the nuclear explosion is sure to send the moon, by sheer coincidence, right in the direction of Meta?

Or do those who are producing Space: 1999 simply not know or not care what the structure of the universe is like? For instance, will they have the moon drifting through space and visiting different planets in each installment? Now that would be too ignorant a view of the universe to be tolerated even in the name of dramatic necessity.

Suppose that the moon were to be hurled out of its orbit with such force that it ended up drifting out of the solar system and through interstellar space at 1000 miles per second. (This is flatly inconceivable, but let us suppose it.) It would then take the moon something like 800 years to reach the nearest star IF it were aimed in the right direction. To have it constantly involved with worlds and alien intelligences is too much to swallow by several thousand cubic miles. [Later episodes propose random "space warps" which shift the Moon through space.]

To be sure, the spaceship Enterprise on Star Trek did it, but the Enterprise was not merely drifting. It was a ship under powered flight; it could be accelerated --and could, we were informed, go faster than light.

But perhaps I need not be pessimistic. Space: 1999 may yet avoid too many errors of ignorance. I hope so, for its special effects are remarkable and I want very much for the show to succeed.

[letsrock]

As a kid i loved watching that show. But he does have some good points. But at least he had an open mind.

[thome]

BEWARE of the Mooninites for they do ..THIS..:fufu: harder than anyone has ever done THIS:fufu: before!

http://cache.thephoenix.com/secure/uploadedImages/The_Phoenix/News/News_Stories/mooninites(4).jpg

In all seriousness the exploration of space is the future of the desire to survive as a people.
We must comply with all the needs of keeping the earth functioning for our future, that is a given.

Magellan, Columbus, etc...Fernado de..whatever his name was opened the world up ...the -New- travelers.. people with the wanderlust NASA and such.... will creat new goals in the exloration of our solar system and beyond.

The Muslims/Terrorist etc. want us all to die, including themselves, that line of thinking is a tool of our destruction.

They see, the life outline, as meeting thier concept of God, as soon as possible.

[letsrock]

The moon is a sacred symbol to the muslims. So by the USA walking on it they were offended. Looks like were gonna piss them off again.

[thome]

The moon is a sacred symbol to the muslims. So by the USA walking on it they were offended. Looks like were gonna piss them off again.

Ofcourse they were.

Why shouldn't they, they also think they own everyone's neck and have the rite to slit it.
I believe thier real pisser is they are about 3500 years behind the rest of the world in the concept of we are all related in one way or another.

When, "WE" THE GODDAMED AMERICAN OPRESSORS walked on the moon the whole world did.

So,............ Captain,....... logic dictates, they should all kill themselves in shame.

[MUSICMANN]

We've been screwing with the shuttle program for almost 30 yrs. now. If NASA and the government would have stayed the course back then following the last Apollo moon landing, we would have probably colonized Mars by now. Even though the shuttle program has had it's rewards. I do believe it has hampered us more than helped.

I do believe as well, that Space exploration should not be NASA exclusive, but should be opened to private enterprises much more. If you have the money and the know how, who is it for anyone to say you can do this or that. Nobody owns space.

[letsrock]

could you imagine if you were posting on here from the moon.

[WACF]

The moon is a sacred symbol to the muslims. So by the USA walking on it they were offended. Looks like were gonna piss them off again.

We gotta be thankful the Christians did not freak out that we were going to punch a hole through heaven...

[Nickdfresh]

They should strap a moon landing conspiracy idiot like Joe Rogan to the top of the fucking rocket so that he can be convinced...

LOL He's that meatheaded?:biggrin:

I would think the lasers shot at the mirror reflectors on the moon, placed there by either aliens or US astronauts, would be sufficient proof...

[Seshmeister]

Well that's one of a thousand bits of evidence but yeah there is a reflector which allows us to measure the distance from the Earth to the moon. It's getting a little further away each year like Space 1999 but slowed down to a few inches.

My favorite one is that amateur astronomers from all over the world including dozens in the UK could actually watch the thing on their telescopes.

[lesfunk]

I still have my Space 1999 die cast toys.
...and play with them regularly

[Seshmeister]

I had a couple of Eagles, ones with winches that lifted shit.

Not being insane I don't have them any more. :)

[lesfunk]

I have one of those and a green one too

[Seshmeister]

Ahh with the little box thing underneath with a door that opened.

[lesfunk]

Absolutely. Talk about insane, I think I still have some of my thunderbirds.

[lesfunk]

Weren't they manufactured by Dinky toys?

[Dan]

You Mean This Is The REAL First Time To The Moon Then.:D

[Seshmeister]

Weren't they manufactured by Dinky toys?

I think so, they don't make them like that any more.

Every so often I see one of my favorite Dinky cars or some such being played with by my nephew and I know my old man has been up in his attic.

Thing is that even the good quality shit is worth nothing if it's actually been played with and all of mine has been a lot, that was kind of the point so I don't mind.

[thome]

Nasa: July 19th 2009 Press Release.

\Space Chicks will be part of the mission to the moon and beyond.

These super hott babes will be by the space dudes side at all times, to protect the mission from the curvie-hip'motizing desire rays given off by The Moon Empress and her minions of candy tasting, thigh high hooker boot wearing seductresses.

Earth space chicks have aquired naturally the protection against the rays that confound and confuse even the most well trained astronauts.

Link...http://weburbanist.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/retro_space_11.jpg

[thome]

WELL! Some guys dream of a -Bottle of Ripple- and a parkbench.:tongue0011:

[FORD]

There is no dark side of the moon....

Has anybody told Roger Waters about this?

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/h3ulXvPLmis&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/h3ulXvPLmis&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[thome]

Yeah Yeah yeah Jelitte'

It's all well and good to keep your stuff together the seriousness of Moon flight and the confronation of the mind.

But what about the Space Chicks...?

There will be hottness there will be XY next to Y X.

Are people going to want to Doit on the MOON!?

Will there be funky stuff in space?

It wont be like Battle star Gallactica it will be more like Porn Channel.

Chica Cicha Wow Wow.


There are only 8 hrs ina work day but The Weekend has 48 OH YEAH, FUKK CITY!!!!

[thome]

In honor of the landing anniversary.

Lot'a nice, MoonStuf on the tube...oh!!! that almost sounds nasty..?

I have a small brush with Moon Fame.

My first cousin lived in Houston and was a Machinist of the inth degree.

High teck metals turned to the positive balance of the fact that he could mill a bolt and a tap into a block of metal that you could hand tighten the bolt into the block and couldn't loosen it with a crane.

If there is no tollerances of gap the metals heat up and meld into the atomic...some mad scientist stufff...??He used to explain to me over beers.

He repaired the botton screw on my Nikonos didn't even need a rubber O ring.

Nah, he made the battery screw to standards of Nikon...on to the story...

Really high end stuf...well here how it go..

He made the armature that the first American flag is hanging on, on the Moon.

Did alot of work for NASA.

No Bullsh!t.

So ......I ah, got that going for me.


I will be signing autographs in........................ THE MEZZANINE!

[letsrock]

Nice.

[Igosplut]

Absolutely. Talk about insane, I think I still have some of my thunderbirds.

HA!

Gotya beat. I actually OWN land on the moon.

Check it out....MoonShop - How to get a property on the Moon! The Moon Shop! (http://www.moonshop.com/)

I have a piece the size of Manhattan, but now they only sell 1 acre parcels. Plus, since I got on on the ground floor I retain my water/mineral rights...

Funny shit for 15.00$ (19,00$ now, with inflation and all..)

[letsrock]

Nice, what are your plans? Condos?

[standin]

In honor of the landing anniversary.

Lot'a nice, MoonStuf on the tube...oh!!! that almost sounds nasty..?

I have a small brush with Moon Fame.

My first cousin lived in Houston and was a Machinist of the inth degree.

High teck metals turned to the positive balance of the fact that he could mill a bolt and a tap into a block of metal that you could hand tighten the bolt into the block and couldn't loosen it with a crane.

If there is no tollerances of gap the metals heat up and meld into the atomic...some mad scientist stufff...??He used to explain to me over beers.

He repaired the botton screw on my Nikonos didn't even need a rubber O ring.

Nah, he made the battery screw to standards of Nikon...on to the story...

Really high end stuf...well here how it go..

He made the armature that the first American flag is hanging on, on the Moon.

Did alot of work for NASA.

No Bullsh!t.

So ......I ah, got that going for me.


I will be signing autographs in........................ THE MEZZANINE!

Cool, I have a cousin that works for NASA, too! Small world...

And I produced work for the only artist to have his work carried to the Moon by the astronauts !
Buy a t-shirt!
Auburn University Flag on Moon T-shirt - Denim AU 406 Tiger Rags (http://www.tigerrags.com/p2869/Auburn-University-Flag-on-Moon-T-shirt---Denim-AU-406/product_info.html)
http://www.tigerrags.com/images/062508_moonshirtblue_md.jpg

[Kristy]

Weren't they manufactured by Dinky toys?

...and probably made with pre-Chinese lead paint.

[Nickdfresh]

There is no dark side of the moon....

Has anybody told Roger Waters about this?

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/h3ulXvPLmis&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/h3ulXvPLmis&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

"There is no dark side of the moon, as a matter of fact, it's all dark..."

One of the background voices on the album. :biggrin:

[standin]

BEWARE of the Mooninites for they do ..THIS..:fufu: harder than anyone has ever done THIS:fufu: before!
http://cache.thephoenix.com/secure/uploadedImages/Te_Phoenix/News/News_Stories/mooninites(4).jpg

In all seriousness the exploration of space is the future of the desire to survive as a people.
We must comply with all the needs of keeping the earth functioning for our future, that is a given.

Magellan, Columbus, etc...Fernado de..whatever his name was opened the world up ...the -New- travelers.. people with the wanderlust NASA and such.... will creat new goals in the exloration of our solar system and beyond.

The Muslims/Terrorist etc. want us all to die, including themselves, that line of thinking is a tool of our destruction.

They see, the life outline, as meeting thier concept of God, as soon as possible.

You are malicious, but to promote the research being carried on concerning the development of Mars I will step on you.



Antarctic Expedition Prepared Researchers For Mars Project

http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/images/02_03_09_1_tm.jpg

Phoenix Mars Mission - (http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/02_03_09_pr.php)

Antarctic Microbes Colonize under Mars-like Conditions
Antarctic Microbes Colonize under Mars-like Conditions (http://serc.carleton.edu/resources/2187.html)

And research less mentioned is sociology research such as this:

"Through the Long Night: Stress and Group Dynamics in Antarctica." S. Bishop, L. Primeau. 53rd International Astronautical Congress (IAC) of the International Astronautical Federation (IAF), International Academy of Astronautics (IAA), and International Institute of Space Law (IISL), Human Factors for Long Duration Spaceflight, World Space Congress. Houston, Texas.
10-Oct-2002.
OPS-Alaska - Extreme Environments (http://pweb.jps.net/~gangale/opsa/index_extrEnv.htm)
http://www.utmb.edu/pmch/Divisions/cpm/Bishop/Bishop.htm

[Blackflag]

...and probably made with pre-Chinese lead paint.

Against my better judgment, I've decided to like Kristy. :duh:

[Nitro Express]

We could colonize Mars on what the banker bailout cost us.

[lesfunk]

HA!

Gotya beat. I actually OWN land on the moon.

Check it out....MoonShop - How to get a property on the Moon! The Moon Shop! (http://www.moonshop.com/)

I have a piece the size of Manhattan, but now they only sell 1 acre parcels. Plus, since I got on on the ground floor I retain my water/mineral rights...

Funny shit for 15.00$ (19,00$ now, with inflation and all..)

Time to cash in!