Wipe the United States off the map

[ELVIS]

North Korea threatens US; world anticipates missile

Jun 24, 2009 (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090624/ap_on_re_as/as_koreas_nuclear_91)

SEOUL, South Korea – North Korea threatened Wednesday to wipe the United States off the map as Washington and its allies watched for signs the regime will launch a series of missiles in the coming days.

Off China's coast, a U.S. destroyer was tailing a North Korean ship suspected of transporting illicit weapons to Myanmar in what could be the first test of U.N. sanctions passed to punish the nation for an underground nuclear test last month.

The Kang Nam left the North Korean port of Nampo a week ago with the USS John S. McCain close behind. The ship, accused of transporting banned goods in the past, is believed bound for Myanmar, according to South Korean and U.S. officials.

The new U.N. Security Council resolution requires member states to seek permission to inspect suspicious cargo. North Korea has said it would consider interception a declaration of war and on Wednesday accused the U.S. of seeking to provoke another Korean War.

"If the U.S. imperialists start another war, the army and people of Korea will ... wipe out the aggressors on the globe once and for all," the official Korean Central News Agency said.

The warning came on the eve of the 59th anniversary of the start of the three-year Korean War, which ended in a truce in 1953, not a peace treaty, leaving the peninsula in state of war.

The U.S. has 28,500 troops in South Korea to protect against an outbreak of hostilities.

Tensions have been high since North Korea launched a long-range rocket in April and then conducted its second underground atomic test on May 25.

Reacting to U.N. condemnation of that test, North Korea walked away from nuclear disarmament talks and warned it would fire a long-range missile.

North Korea has banned ships from the waters off its east coast starting Thursday through July 10 for military exercises, Japan's Coast Guard said.

South Korea's Yonhap news agency reported Wednesday that the North may fire a Scud missile with a range of up to 310 miles (500 kilometers) or a short-range ground-to-ship missile with a range of 100 miles (160 kilometers) during the no-sail period.

A senior South Korean government official said the no-sail ban is believed connected to North Korean plans to fire short- or mid-range missiles. He spoke on condition of anonymity, citing department policy.

U.S. defense and counterproliferation officials in Washington said they also expected the North to launch short- to medium-range missiles. The officials spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive intelligence.

South Korea will expedite the introduction of high-tech unmanned aerial surveillance systems and "bunker-buster" bombs in response to North Korea's provocations, the Chosun Ilbo newspaper said, citing unidentified ruling party members.

Meanwhile, a flurry of diplomatic efforts were under way to try getting North Korea to return to disarmament talks.

Russia's top nuclear envoy, Alexei Borodavkin, said after meeting with his South Korean counterpart that Moscow is open to other formats for discussion since Pyongyang has pulled out of formal six-nation negotiations.

In Beijing, top U.S. and Chinese defense officials also discussed North Korea. U.S. Defense Undersecretary Michele Flournoy was heading next to Tokyo and Seoul for talks.

South Korea has proposed high-level "consultations" to discuss North Korea with the U.S., Russia, China and Japan.


:elvis:

[Kristy]

Well, he can have east Denver.

[sadaist]

At least we will always have the best military force in the world.


White House threatens defense spending bill veto

The Associated Press

1:35 p.m. June 24, 2009

WASHINGTON — Preparing for a possible showdown with Congress, the White House has threatened to veto a $680 billion military spending bill if it contains money for jet fighters the Pentagon doesn't want.

In a statement of administration policy, President Barack Obama's Office of Management and Budget said the $369 million a House committee added to the bill for 12 additional F-22 fighters runs counter to the "collective judgment" of the military's top leaders.

Defense Secretary Robert Gates wants to end production of the radar-evading F-22 after 187 aircraft have been built. Last week, in a preview of the White House's veto threat, Gates called the funding boost a "big problem."

White House threatens defense spending bill veto (http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2009/jun/24/us-defense-spending-062409/?politics&zIndex=122010)

[GAR]

LoungeMachine said a few months ago Korea was nothing to worry about.. he wouldn't lie about such a thing.

[hideyoursheep]

"If the U.S. imperialists start another war, the army and people of Korea will ... wipe out the aggressors on the globe once and for all,"

Does he stutter?







South Korea's Yonhap news agency reported Wednesday that the North may fire a Scud missile with a range of up to 310 miles (500 kilometers) or a short-range ground-to-ship missile with a range of 100 miles (160 kilometers) during the no-sail period.

What they meant to say was:
South Korea's Yonhap news agency reported Wednesday that the North may fire a Scud missile with a range of up to however long we decide to let it fly.

:lmao:


Scud.

[bueno bob]

LMAO

Wake me up when Kim Jong can get a missle over 20 miles, will ya? Fuck, I can piss further than most of his artillery can go.

Bottom line: Any good tyranny goes into this sabre-rattling "We're gonna destroy the whole fuckin' world!" bullshit every time somebody new gets ready to take power. It's no secret Kim's last days are pretty much upon him. Everybody's going to wring their hands about how scary and dangerous things are getting until the new power gets in and magically "resolves" things so that the people of North Korea know for sure that this is a peacemaker and that, well, his keeping the status quo of shit in their country intact is ok because he's, well, a peacemaker.

Yeah, wake me up when something NEW actually happens, cool?

[bueno bob]

LoungeMachine said a few months ago Korea was nothing to worry about.. he wouldn't lie about such a thing.

Right.

See? You're getting it!

[Nickdfresh]

At least we will always have the best military force in the world.


White House threatens defense spending bill veto

The Associated Press

1:35 p.m. June 24, 2009

WASHINGTON — Preparing for a possible showdown with Congress, the White House has threatened to veto a $680 billion military spending bill if it contains money for jet fighters the Pentagon doesn't want.

In a statement of administration policy, President Barack Obama's Office of Management and Budget said the $369 million a House committee added to the bill for 12 additional F-22 fighters runs counter to the "collective judgment" of the military's top leaders.

Defense Secretary Robert Gates wants to end production of the radar-evading F-22 after 187 aircraft have been built. Last week, in a preview of the White House's veto threat, Gates called the funding boost a "big problem."

White House threatens defense spending bill veto (http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2009/jun/24/us-defense-spending-062409/?politics&zIndex=122010)

Oh, how pertinent. Yeah, the US needs billion dollar fighters that cost more per copy than the entire North Korean air force...

Aren't you one of the guys crying about taxes and federal spending? Did you ever wonder what we're getting for $680 billion when much of it is still geared towards fighting a next generation of Soviet fighters that were never built beyond one or two prototypes?

[sadaist]

Aren't you one of the guys crying about taxes and federal spending?


I can break it down into terms even a simpleton can understand.


When the government uses tax money to protect us from others, I'm all for it.

When the government uses tax money to protect us from ourselves, I'm against it.

[letsrock]

North Korea thinks that they can avoid us attacking them by having no lights on at night.

***see the night pic in the other thread.

[BITEYOASS]

What a bunch of BS! More than likely the missile they fire won't go past 5000 ft. or any ship they use to attack us will sink due to excessive corrosion. Their fleet is ancient and half of their weapons don't work. I'd be surprised if their starved soldiers would be able to pick up an artillery round.

Looks like Kim Jong-Il is throwing a tantrum because everyone is paying attention to Iran.

[letsrock]

The scuds they have have a range of up 300 miles.
So since when did the USA become in range.
That guy is an idiot.

[Guitar Shark]

At least we will always have the best military force in the world.


White House threatens defense spending bill veto

The Associated Press

1:35 p.m. June 24, 2009

WASHINGTON — Preparing for a possible showdown with Congress, the White House has threatened to veto a $680 billion military spending bill if it contains money for jet fighters the Pentagon doesn't want.

In a statement of administration policy, President Barack Obama's Office of Management and Budget said the $369 million a House committee added to the bill for 12 additional F-22 fighters runs counter to the "collective judgment" of the military's top leaders.

Defense Secretary Robert Gates wants to end production of the radar-evading F-22 after 187 aircraft have been built. Last week, in a preview of the White House's veto threat, Gates called the funding boost a "big problem."

White House threatens defense spending bill veto (http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2009/jun/24/us-defense-spending-062409/?politics&zIndex=122010)

Give me a break. The United States spends an ENORMOUS amount of money on defense compared to the rest of the world.

http://static.globalissues.org/i/military/country-distribution-2007.png

For even more recent numbers, see: List of countries by military expenditures - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures)

[letsrock]

Wait a minute. That pie chart is a joke. Look at it again. There is a piece for the USA.
Then the second largest piece says "rest of the world" so shouldnt there be just the 2 pieces? How can there then be a third piece that says "next 10 countries combined"?
Are they not on Earth? And then even further break down.

Did a five year old label that chart?

[Guitar Shark]

Sorry you're confused. It makes sense to me.

[Satan]

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[LoungeMachine]

Wait a minute. That pie chart is a joke. Look at it again. There is a piece for the USA.
Then the second largest piece says "rest of the world" so shouldnt there be just the 2 pieces? How can there then be a third piece that says "next 10 countries combined"?
Are they not on Earth? And then even further break down.

Did a five year old label that chart?

Have a 5 year old explain it to you then.

It makes perfect sense.

Unless of course you dont read the slice marked "rest of the world" last....

:gulp:

[damngoodtimes]

The scuds they have have a range of up 300 miles.
So since when did the USA become in range.
That guy is an idiot.

however, if you read the article they are talking about firing the scuds at our ship if we get too close while following their ship. 300 miles is also plenty of range for the 28,000 US troops stationed in South Korea.

in terms of acts of aggression, firing on either of those two is the same thing as firing on the US proper.

[letsrock]

Rest of the world = everyone but the USA.
So why is Japan, France, China and the UK not considered part of the "rest of the world"?

I understand how some are looking at this. Its easier to clump all the other countries together and call it "rest of the world"

But on the other side of the fence, "rest of the world" equals everyone but the USA.
Thats simple enough.

[letsrock]

however, if you read the article they are talking about firing the scuds at our ship if we get too close while following their ship. 300 miles is also plenty of range for the 28,000 US troops stationed in South Korea.

in terms of acts of aggression, firing on either of those two is the same thing as firing on the US proper.

Your right but even though are bases overseas are part of the USA, (that is why a child born on a US Military base overseas can become president) it is not the same as hitting one of the 50 states. heck most people just consider the cont 48 the USA.

[Guitar Shark]

Rest of the world = everyone but the USA.
So why is Japan, France, China and the UK not considered part of the "rest of the world"?

I understand how some are looking at this. Its easier to clump all the other countries together and call it "rest of the world"

But on the other side of the fence, "rest of the world" equals everyone but the USA.
Thats simple enough.

Dude, look at the pie chart in clockwise fashion. US first. The next biggest spender is the UK, followed by China, France and Japan. The next ten biggest countries (unnamed) follow them, as seen by the orange slice of the pie. All of the remaining countries in the world are represented by the "Rest of the world" slice.

Here is the big picture in case you are still cuntfused: The US spends almost HALF of the ENTIRE WORLD's spending on defense.

[LoungeMachine]

all to defend our corporate oil interests.......

[LoungeMachine]

Rest of the world = everyone but the USA.
So why is Japan, France, China and the UK not considered part of the "rest of the world"?

I understand how some are looking at this. Its easier to clump all the other countries together and call it "rest of the world"

But on the other side of the fence, "rest of the world" equals everyone but the USA.
Thats simple enough.

:rolleyes:

[sadaist]

Dude, look at the pie chart in clockwise fashion. US first. The next biggest spender is the UK, followed by China, France and Japan. The next ten biggest countries (unnamed) follow them, as seen by the orange slice of the pie. All of the remaining countries in the world are represented by the "Rest of the world" slice.



Yeah, that's how it is meant to be read. Although it would have been better if they labeled it "Unlisted Countries" rather than "Rest of the World". I can see how it could be easily misread.


http://infosthetics.com/archives/funny_pie_chart2.jpg

[Guitar Shark]

LOL, that picture is hilarious! :rofl:

[letsrock]

Yeah, that's how it is meant to be read. Although it would have been better if they labeled it "Unlisted Countries" rather than "Rest of the World". I can see how it could be easily misread.


http://infosthetics.com/archives/funny_pie_chart2.jpg

Exactly.

[Nitro Express]

The only country that could wipe the United States off the map is Russia. North Korea may pop a nuke on South Korea and kill a lot of people but then their game is up.

[Nitro Express]

As far as a shoot um up bang type of war goes, the US is still on top of the food chain. China will eventually catch up in time. As far as economic warfare goes, I think China is winning that one.

[Nitro Express]

Well, he can have east Denver.

I don't think Kim Jong's Ill's nuclear penis can reach that far.

[Nitro Express]

I wonder who helped Kim develop his nuclear program. China? Russia? Or both? Give crazy Kim a nuke. He can't hit anything but South Korea. Kim nukes South Korea and the US has to respond. The US invades and Takes over North Korea. Now the US has to police Iraq, Afganistahn, and North Korea. This ties up the US military to where they are now not a major force in any theater. The Chinese will exploit this situation by moving against Taiwan and expanding their empire elsewhere once we can't do anything about it.

The big showdown will be over the world's natural resources between NATO and China and it's allies.

[Seshmeister]

"If the U.S. imperialists start another war, the army and people of Korea will ... wipe out the aggressors on the globe once and for all," the official Korean Central News Agency said.

Oh FFS what a non story.

[Nickdfresh]

I can break it down into terms even a simpleton can understand.

You have a unique gift...


When the government uses tax money to protect us from others, I'm all for it.

When the government uses tax money to protect us from ourselves, I'm against it.

So you're motivated by fear and exaggerated, even false and mischaracterized conflicts...

Man, do politicians love people like you...

[ELVIS]

China will eventually catch up in time.

I doubt that. China has a few Nuclear ICBM's, but other than that, their military aircraft and other vehicles and weapons are based on 1950's and '60's Soviet technology...

As far as economic warfare goes, I think China is winning that one.

Not now that they are holding a sizable chunk of our debt, and consumer goods sales made in China are way down. This recession/depression is worldwide. I just read that Chinese unemployment has reached a 30 year high, so don't believe all the Chinese hype...




:elvis:

[VanHalener]

I was laughing so much I forgot what this thread was about...



Oh yeah, why hasn't someone come within a mile or so and taken Kim Jong out? Might not solve the problem, but it would be a fantastic start.

[hideyoursheep]

As far as economic warfare goes, I think China is winning that one.

Does this mean capitalism doesn't work as well as communism?

Lots of Republican businessfolk are in bed with communist China.

As long as they benefit from it, I guess it's okay?

But the same cats want to call Obama a Marxist.

You can't have it both ways.

[hideyoursheep]

Did a five year old label that chart?

:lol:

No, but a former public servant who likes to get paid to post all night couldn't read it!

:lmao:

[hideyoursheep]

I can break it down into terms even a simpleton can understand.


When the government uses tax money to protect us from others, I'm all for it.

When the government uses tax money to protect us from ourselves, I'm against it.


I'll break it down for you.

Our Air Force is so well equipped and advanced, we don't need the goddamned F-22.

[ELVIS]

We have nearly 200 of them anyway...

That amount should come in handy...


:elvis:

[hideyoursheep]

More than enough...

[ELVIS]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c0/Two_F-22_Raptor_in_flying.jpg/763px-Two_F-22_Raptor_in_flying.jpg


:elvis:

[hideyoursheep]

LOL!

You're nuts, man..

[ELVIS]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c0/Two_F-22_Raptor_in_flying.jpg/763px-Two_F-22_Raptor_in_flying.jpg


:elvis:

They look good!


:elvis:

[Nitro Express]

China will be affected by the economic downturn but you have to remember they have a HUGE manufacturing base and have made a huge push to educate their students in technological fields of study. MIT and Cal Tech recruit at Chinese high schools because American graduates can't cut the math and science classes. The US has lost it's manufacturing base and has failed to educate the next generation of scientists and engineers. Most of our technology companies recruit foriegners because they tend to be better educated in science and technology.

So yeah. We have the lead but for how long? Not too mention China has a huge and elaborate espiange program going. They are aquiring our technology.

China could bring our economy to a screeching halt by dumping their bonds and refusing to export to our markets. Sure they would lose money but it would hurt them less than it would hurt us.

[ELVIS]

Which is why I posted that the US was possibly trying to install a puppet regime in Iran in order to cut off oil to China...


:elvis:

[Nitro Express]

Also. There are two world economies. The paper economy and the real economy. The paper economy is trading concocted untangables such as money, stocks, bonds and using sophisticated gimmicks to manipulate the value. The central banks control this economy with interests rates. The people who control the world's central banks know it's all an illusion and they are more interested in the real economy. The real economy consists of the resources that make modern life possible. Oil, food production, minerals, water, ect...

There is not enough of these resources for India, China, the US, Japan, and Europe to all live at the same economic levels they want to. Thus, the powers that be are grabbing for resources. This is done through financial or military means. We may invade Iraq if Saddam Hussain starts selling oil in Euros instead of dollars. The International Monitary Fund may give a poor country a loan they can't pay back and then take an oil field or a mine for payment. We may meddle in the Middle East and Africa to meddle with China's supply of raw resources from that area.

The reason we are making a move into Pakistahn is it's China's only allie in that region of the world. NATO wants those oil and natural gas resources and it wants to control the Caspian basin. This is why we are meddling in Georgia. The whole geopolitical situation is a grab for oil/natural gas resources between NATO and Russia/China. Africa and the Middle East are where the resources are and that is where we are going to squabble of who controls what.

[Nitro Express]

Which is why I posted that the US was possibly trying to install a puppet regime in Iran in order to cut off oil to China...


:elvis:

Yup. I think the CIA is running a color revolution in Iran so we can control it through a puppet govt. Iran is a key location for the Caspian oil and the flow of Persian Gulf oil. It's also a strategic location to Russia. NATO is slowly surrounding them. Basically NATO and the banking oligarchy was going to consolidate Russia into the fold, but Putin and the KGB put a stop to that. So that is when we started to systematically move against Russia by putting missles in easter Europe and invading countries on it's southern border.

What NATO would love to do is get China and Russia in a war with each other to where they take each other out.

[Nitro Express]

The reality of the world is 50% of the world's population live in poverty. 25% go to bed hungry. 15% live in hellish conditions. So 90% of the world live a subpar life. 10% of the world's population live pretty well in comparison and these people live in places like Japan, North America, Europe and a few other places. Out of that 10% less than 1% pretty much run the whole world. That's the reality. That less than 1% have more control than we would care to admit they have.

[ELVIS]

Glad to see you looking at the bigger picture...

I didn't look at things that way until I started paying attention to FORD, even though his sight is narrowed by the BCE...:biggrin:

[hideyoursheep]

Yup. I think the CIA is running a color revolution in Iran so we can control it through a puppet govt.
Been there, done that.


What NATO would love to do is get China and Russia in a war with each other to where they take each other out. Why would we like our largest manufacuring base eliminated?

[ELVIS]

Because the people that are playing this global game of advanced chess could care less...


:elvis:

[Nitro Express]

Does this mean capitalism doesn't work as well as communism?

Lots of Republican businessfolk are in bed with communist China.

As long as they benefit from it, I guess it's okay?

But the same cats want to call Obama a Marxist.

You can't have it both ways.

Communist stagnates and goes broke. China didn't want to go the way of the Soviet Union and so they traded Communism for fascism. Fascism is when the state and corporate interests become one. This allows the advantages of capatalism and the control of communism. If you look at the US now, we are becoming fascist as well. The govt and Wall Street have become one and now they are taking over corporations and firing CEOs. Obama now wants the Federal Reserve to have altimate power over our economy. We will become like China in the regard that you can run a business but the govt. and take your over anytime they want.

[Nitro Express]

Been there, done that.

Why would we like our largest manufacuring base eliminated?

They aren't playing ball and they are becoming too powerful. China is telling the elite that runs things in Europe and North America to go fuck themselves. Of course they do this politely. Also, we don't like to beg them to not sell our bonds but they are starting to sell them. We like China if they buy our debt and play nice but they are starting to indicate the are in the game for themselves.

I think many business and political leaders here were naive to think we would have a billion and a half new consumers to sell to and we would start to call the shots in China over time. That isn't happening. Instead, they have us by the balls.

[Nitro Express]

One element that is necessary to be powerful in this world is to have surfs under you. I think the cheap Chinese labor was tempting to the North American and European elites and they found a way to exploit that. Now it's apparent they don't have the influence over Bejing they once hoped they would have. Also, remember real wealth to these people isn't money. They control the banks that print the shit. No. They want real resources and oil is a huge resource. China wants the same resources they want. So now China is a competitor. It's all about who controls the resources and we are in the begining of the petrolium wars and resource wars. This will be fought economically and militarily. It will get very nasty.

[hideyoursheep]

There's a difference between fascism, and demanding the resignation of some CEO's whose corp. has it's hands out for taxpayers money. There's a reason those companies are fucked up and the blame lies squarely at the top. No sense in handing out mortgages to people who can't pay the note, and no sense in loaning any business govt. cheese if the dickhead in charge is too inept to pay it back. Kind of defeats the purpose.

What company that has been bailed out thus far has recieved a government official appointed as CEO to operate in place of the failed CEO?

[hideyoursheep]

They aren't playing ball and they are becoming too powerful. China is telling the elite that runs things in Europe and North America to go fuck themselves. Of course they do this politely. Also, we don't like to beg them to not sell our bonds but they are starting to sell them. We like China if they buy our debt and play nice but they are starting to indicate the are in the game for themselves.

I think many business and political leaders here were naive to think we would have a billion and a half new consumers to sell to and we would start to call the shots in China over time. That isn't happening. Instead, they have us by the balls.

So they are capitalists after all!

[ELVIS]

That isn't happening. Instead, they have us by the balls.

Not if they can't sell the massive amount of crap they produce to the rest of the world...

[Nitro Express]

It's all about opportunity costs. If you are China what is more important? Financing US debt so you can sell Americans plastic sex toys, clothes, Nike tennis shoes, computers, and big screen televisions, while the US and it's allies also use your money to grab the world's resources. Or do you want the resources? How do you run and expand your economy when you have to buy resources from the people who you are financing? They can shut you down and extort you. Everyone is going to grub for the oil and other raw resources because without them, nothing else matters.

[Nitro Express]

There's a difference between fascism, and demanding the resignation of some CEO's whose corp. has it's hands out for taxpayers money. There's a reason those companies are fucked up and the blame lies squarely at the top. No sense in handing out mortgages to people who can't pay the note, and no sense in loaning any business govt. cheese if the dickhead in charge is too inept to pay it back. Kind of defeats the purpose.

What company that has been bailed out thus far has recieved a government official appointed as CEO to operate in place of the failed CEO?

Yeah, but this leads to fascism. The CEO of GM got paid $40 million a year to run the company into the ground. Either the stockholders and the board of directors clean house or the company fails. Why should the govt. bail them out? The govt. now wants the powers to take over any business if it looks like failure may hurt the economy. We aren't fascist now but man, look at what they are wanting to do. The govt. now overides the stockholders and board of directors. That's fascism.

[Nitro Express]

Not if they can't sell the massive amount of crap they produce to the rest of the world...

That only lowers their trade surplus. China can wait us out easy. They have savings and they can manufacture. Without China our store shelves are empty. Boeing can't even make an airliner without Chinese made parts. The computers we are communicating with are probably made in China or key parts of them are. If the ship doesn't sail to the US we lose our modern lifestyle. Shit. I don't even know if we make underwear here anymore.

[hideyoursheep]

I think the cheap Chinese labor was tempting to the North American and European elites and they found a way to exploit that. Now it's apparent they don't have the influence over Bejing they once hoped they would have..
I agree with that..


Also, remember real wealth to these people isn't money. They control the banks that print the shit. No. They want real resources and oil is a huge resource. China wants the same resources they want. So now China is a competitor.China hasn't made a move on anybody to own any oil. They are just beginning to sample the type of boom we experienced during the 40's and 50's on the economic side-having so many cheap laborers working in factories who get paid by selling shit to us, so I'd say they are on the consumer side of the oil situation.

BTW, don't think that NK is going to be their junkyard dog, because I don't believe China wants to fuck up a good thing like they have right now. Not that it's great for them, but it's better than it's ever been. If all those people start losing those jobs created by foreigners like us due to some sort of conflict, you'll be seeing a lot more Chinese protesters standing in front of tanks.

If NK makes a move on anyone, China will do them like Paulie did Henry Hill...minus the 3 G's.

No one is going to war. Uncle Kim is just an idiot.

[ELVIS]

I don't even know if we make underwear here anymore.

I don't think we do...

[hideyoursheep]

Yeah, but this leads to fascism. The CEO of GM got paid $40 million a year to run the company into the ground. Either the stockholders and the board of directors clean house or the company fails. Why should the govt. bail them out? The govt. now wants the powers to take over any business if it looks like failure may hurt the economy. We aren't fascist now but man, look at what they are wanting to do. The govt. now overides the stockholders and board of directors. That's fascism.

Nitro, I respect your opinion, but...


Wake me when we get there, then I'll believe you.

[Nitro Express]

China is in the position where is could cripple our modern lifestyle by denying us the goods they produce. They pretty much have a monopoly there. If the container ships don't dock in our ports, we lose the access to key products that keep us going here. What do we make here? They still will have access to the goods they make but we won't. It's not just Wal-Mart crap they sell to us. It's electronic parts, bearings, tools. All stuff we outsourced to them and sent the manufacturing equipment overseas to them so they could manufacture for us. I don't even know if you could make a computer today without the access to Chinese made parts.

[hideyoursheep]

China is in the position where is could cripple our modern lifestyle by denying us the goods they produce. They pretty much have a monopoly there. If the container ships don't dock in our ports, we lose the access to key products that keep us going here. What do we make here? They still will have access to the goods they make but we won't. It's not just Wal-Mart crap they sell to us. It's electronic parts, bearings, tools. All stuff we outsourced to them and sent the manufacturing equipment overseas to them so they could manufacture for us. I don't even know if you could make a computer today without the access to Chinese made parts.


It's our fault.

Looking to make things on the cheap without having to deal with paying a decent living wage, circumventing enviornmental laws as well as OSHA regs...it's the greed of a few. I try my damnedest not to support these fucks whenever possible by not buying it.

Read the label.

Break these scumbags off.

[ELVIS]

I try my damnedest not to support these fucks whenever possible by not buying it.

Read the label.

Break these scumbags off.

It's too late for that...

The next step for America is WAR!

Not a bogged down in Iraq or Afghanistan situation. A real WAR!

[hideyoursheep]

It's too late for that...

The next step for America is WAR!!

Against who?

The fuckers who sold us out, or the new owners?

[ELVIS]

Iran for one, since the regime change idea didn't work...

But possibly the entire middle east as well as North Korea for starters...

[hideyoursheep]

Uh oh! Pwer might go out..gotta light candles...find flashlight...so if you don't see me....big storm....maybe it's Kim's Scud landing outside! hahahahha.

[hideyoursheep]

The next step for America is WAR!

A real WAR!


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[Nickdfresh]

You conspiracy nuts give way too much credit to the CIA...

The perpetually shitty Iranian economy, coupled with one of the most educated populations in the Middle East is the root of this - nothing else. You dopes are just pandering to the Islamists and actually giving credence for their claims...

The CIA/MI6 don't do populist uprisings against voter fraud. They do military coups which are far quicker and infinitely worse...

[letsrock]

That is one awesome jet.

[letsrock]

:lol:

No, but a former public servant who likes to get paid to post all night couldn't read it!

:lmao:

Love the fact that you think of me all day. Send me your address and i'll autograph an 8x10 for you.
Also who works at night?

[Susie Q]

I say, to hell with it. Here today, gone tomorrow. I just hope I am at the epicenter of the damn thing if it comes our way. I won't know what hit me.

[letsrock]

Nothing will touch the North American continent.
Its to bad everyone forgets about the "Hawk" or "Patriot" missle systems.

[Nitro Express]

It's our fault.

Looking to make things on the cheap without having to deal with paying a decent living wage, circumventing enviornmental laws as well as OSHA regs...it's the greed of a few. I try my damnedest not to support these fucks whenever possible by not buying it.

Read the label.

Break these scumbags off.

I try do that but more and more companies sell out. Where China has us by the balls is the manufacture key component parts. Timken bearing has outsourced from Ohio to China. Try making anything mechanical without bearings. Key electronic components are made in China. Even Japanese name brand stuff is made in China. That's what's happened. It's a combination of over regulation and greed here.

It's hurt our economy badly and now our govt. is trying to consolidate banks, healthcare, and corporations under it's umbrella. Why in the hell we pay these CEOs tens of millions of dollars to run companies into the ground is beyond me. My theory is the stock holder became mutual funds and so nobody was really calling these boards of directors out. People owned a salad of stuff. Much like how the mortgage industry went to shit because shit was mixed with the good and sold as excellent.

[Nitro Express]

Capatalism works fine is we let the losers fail and the good money succeed. We also need enough govt. regulation to keep businesses from becoming monopolies. When shitty companies get saved by the govt. and the taxpayer pays for it, this isn't going to work. You throw the good money at the bad. We aren't fixing shit.

[BITEYOASS]

Nothing will touch the North American continent.
Its to bad everyone forgets about the "Hawk" or "Patriot" missle systems.

Plus everyone forgets how shitty the NK weapons systems are.

[letsrock]

Nitro,

Timken is based right here in Canton Ohio. And there main plants are still operational here in NorthEast Ohio. Yes they produce parts in as many as a dozen countries, so what.

The problem the USA refuses to face is this:

If we were to get into a war with some country that gave us a fight, we'd be screwed. the reason? Our core manufacuring, Steel, Rubber and other components are gone. So with out that being readily available we wouldnt be able to replace tanks, ships, and planes fast enough.

But thats what the USA wants.

[Nitro Express]

There could be a revolution in the United States if our problems continue to get worse and the powers that be clamp down on us even more. That's a possibility. We could also start a war with someone else because the politicians will need a distraction when the bailout bubble pops and fails. The will be desperate enough to do anything then.

What's going on is we have a few greedy people who have failed and now they are stealing from the solvent trying to keep a failed system they control afloat. As far as conspiracies go, they exist. Powerful people meet in secret and have secret agendas. How much they are actually able to accomplish is debatable. Sure conspiracy is involved but stupidity and greed are as well.

[letsrock]

Very well said.

[Nitro Express]

Nitro,

Timken is based right here in Canton Ohio. And there main plants are still operational here in NorthEast Ohio. Yes they produce parts in as many as a dozen countries, so what.

The problem the USA refuses to face is this:

If we were to get into a war with some country that gave us a fight, we'd be screwed. the reason? Our core manufacuring, Steel, Rubber and other components are gone. So with out that being readily available we wouldnt be able to replace tanks, ships, and planes fast enough.

But thats what the USA wants.

That's what I'm getting at. I read Timken's business plan and they want to continue to outsource more to China. Our biggest steel business is Nucor which primarily melts scrap. Then our biggest export is bailed cardboard. I can't even buy a decent vaccum cleaner made in the US. I had to buy a German made one to get the quality for the price. Hoover is a joke these days. The thing is, you lose the base raw materials and manufacturing you loose the other jobs as well.

The only thing I see helping the US is if we become a leader on alternative energy. That could create a huge amount of jobs but we need the technical people coming out of school and we've done a shitty job in education. Maybe if we just kill off our dumb and lazy people we will have a chance at being great again. LOL! Hey. Now I'm sounding like China.:biggrin:

[Nitro Express]

We have too many people for the available jobs and resources. You take the smart people and put them in bunkers and then you start a pandemic and kill everyone else. Oh. Bilderberg conspiracy here. Now I'm sounding like a Rockefeller. :D

[Nitro Express]

The US is still a leader in many areas the rest of the world needs. Agriculture will be a booming business in the next 20-30 years. As far as Agronomy goes, we are a world leader. We lead the world in water purification and resource management technology. China would hire you right now because water is a key problem they are facing now and have no real solution for. We have a historical record of being good in both areas. If I was going into college I would seriously look at both of these areas as a career.

[Nitro Express]

But we won't come out of our problem state until we become a world exporter again and run a trade surplus. As long as we continue to run a huge trade deficit we hemorage our wealth. We've been reduced to being a stupid fat, dumb, and happy consumer. Like how a farmer feeds a big fat pig. You can't continue to run up debt and consume forever and it's made us sloppy as hell.

[Baby's On Fire]

Oh, how pertinent. Yeah, the US needs billion dollar fighters that cost more per copy than the entire North Korean air force...

Aren't you one of the guys crying about taxes and federal spending? Did you ever wonder what we're getting for $680 billion when much of it is still geared towards fighting a next generation of Soviet fighters that were never built beyond one or two prototypes?

There haven't been any Soviets in about 23 years.

[Nitro Express]

Exactly. How much dogfighting do we do? Transport planes, ground attack planes, and bombers are what we use most. The good old B-52 has been used more than a fighter in our recient wars.

If we were smart we would find a real sollution to get off of oil, then we wouldn't have to get into wars over it.

[letsrock]

Your right about the jobs having to many people per job.
the sad thing is this. Employers are getting rid of employees, not because of sales.
but they know that in this job market than can get a person with a Masters degree that is desperate for work at a cheaper price, then they hire them.
So in essence they are upgrading the quality and education of there employees. give it 10 to 15 years we will see a big difference.

[Nitro Express]

Even with the tight job market I know people who have quit their corporate jobs because they were expected to do more with less and work longer. My brother in law was a vice president at Hewlett-Packard and just quit because the job was actually killing him. We are becoming slaves and surfs to the big banks, the govt., and big corporations. Unless we fix it politically, they will squeeze us so hard people will finally blow and it will get very nasty. Of course those in power will play one side off the other. I don't see a good scenero in two or three years at all. It's all because of fucking greed.

[Nitro Express]

You are going to have MBA's driving taxi cabs. I mean I just had some new flooring installed by a biologist that lost his job. He has a masters degree too. He's an excellent carpenter and did a great job but man. I feel for him.

[Nitro Express]

Put it this way. I personally know people who have bolted for Singapore and Hong Kong. They don't want to leave their money in the US nor do they want their business here. They are worried about taxes and govt. intrusion. That's saying something. I moved to China because I feared govt. instrusion. The thing is, the Chinese don't tax your savings or capital gains. The stability of the US Govt. is why people wanted to park their money here. Now they are starting to wonder if the stability is still there. Both the Bush Administration and Obama Administration have been utterly insane. So is Congress. It's unreal.

[hideyoursheep]

Nitro,

Timken is based right here in Canton Ohio. And there main plants are still operational here in NorthEast Ohio. Yes they produce parts in as many as a dozen countries, so what.

The problem the USA refuses to face is this:

If we were to get into a war with some country that gave us a fight, we'd be screwed. the reason? Our core manufacuring, Steel, Rubber and other components are gone. So with out that being readily available we wouldnt be able to replace tanks, ships, and planes fast enough.

But thats what the USA wants.

They aren't ALL gone...

And the M1 plant is in Lima (maybe more somewhere else). That's not getting outsourced- Ever.

And asshole...

Everytime I see some jizz-dumpling fucking off when they should be working, I think of you. Especially on the Govt. dime.

If you want to pretend like you don't know what I'm getting at, fine.

There's 4 things in this world I despise and you're 3 of 'em.

[letsrock]

I guess thats because those three things are.

a) I'm a Vet
b) I had the guts to run and serve in an elected position
c) You wish you were me

Your an Anti American fagola.

[Dolemite!]

Even with the tight job market I know people who have quit their corporate jobs because they were expected to do more with less and work longer. My brother in law was a vice president at Hewlett-Packard and just quit because the job was actually killing him. We are becoming slaves and surfs to the big banks, the govt., and big corporations. Unless we fix it politically, they will squeeze us so hard people will finally blow and it will get very nasty. Of course those in power will play one side off the other. I don't see a good scenero in two or three years at all. It's all because of fucking greed.


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[Nitro Express]

Against who?

The fuckers who sold us out, or the new owners?

The new owners will need a big war as soon as their bailout bubble pops. Also, we are going to have civil unrest and a tax revolt here in the United States. As one economist said yesterday. The arrogance of the US Corporate and Banking leaders is unreal and scary. They are going to continue to give themselves bonuses while the tell the rest of us to eat cake. It's going to boil over sometime. So I see the Executive Branch needing another big war and the people here dividing and revolting. The govt. will try and counter this by offering lots of govt. jobs to people to police and regulate the people who revolt. It will be a struggle between big govt. and people who are tired of big govt. As soon as the job losses mount up and the taxes go to unreal levels, this will happen.

[Nitro Express]

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I've been a subscriber of Gerald Calente's Trends Journal since 1989. I used it as a resource for a college term paper and thought it was a good publication so I subscribed. I made some money of of the information in it over the years so Gerald in my book is reputable.

[Nitro Express]

CEO's when they are at the end of their rope and have no real sollutions always merge with another company. This usually distracts the investors from the real problems and rallys the stock short-term.

Politicians when they have no real sollutions start wars as a distraction. The resulting emergency becomes the new focus and they can use it as a rallying point for sacrifice and hardship.

Nothing new.

The system has been failing for a long-time and now they are desperate to hold onto their power and will do anything. It's a failed system desperately scratching to stay afloat and the greed makes them willing to do anything. Man. Have we fallen hard.

[Nickdfresh]

There haven't been any Soviets in about 23 years.

Thank you, Mr. Obvious, that was part of my point...

[GAR]

Sorry you're confused. It makes sense to me.

"Next Ten" refers to those unnamed on the list behind the US and the listed countries named. And so on.

[hideyoursheep]

I guess thats because those three things are.

a) I'm a Vet
b) I had the guts to run and serve in an elected position
c) You wish you were me

Your an Anti American fagola.

Uh, wrong again.

a)I'm a vet. Your service don't mean shit to me, as you have dishonored yourself by admitting that you were getting paid to sit on your ass and spam this site. Grab a shovel and fill some potholes instead, you cunt.

b):lol: Big fucking deal. You're a lying cocksucker. Nothing new there. Didn't they fire you or some shit? :lol:

c) I sleep better at night knowing that my integrity is intact. You have a better chance of living on the sun than me EVER wishing I were you. I highly doubt YOU want that job.


Did you just call me a fagola?

:lmao:

You're welcome to come get some anytime, Johnny Rogaine.

[vh rides again]

the whole problem with what he says is that it is the united states position that if anyone uses nuclear or biological weapons on our troops or citizens, that we will retaliate with nuclear weapons, thats no bullshit.

so if they set off a A-bomb in south korea and kill our troops, we will be lobbing tactical battlefield nuclear weapons that are shot from artillary guns back at them.
if the radiation rolls up into china and kills a bunch of chinese we will be in deep shit, it could be a real bad time for us.

hes a crazy son of a bitch, he should have been delt with a long time ago, its too late now.

[hideyoursheep]

Let the ROK deal with him if he gets out of line.

[Nickdfresh]

the whole problem with what he says is that it is the united states position that if anyone uses nuclear or biological weapons on our troops or citizens, that we will retaliate with nuclear weapons, thats no bullshit.

so if they set off a A-bomb in south korea and kill our troops, we will be lobbing tactical battlefield nuclear weapons that are shot from artillary guns back at them.
if the radiation rolls up into china and kills a bunch of chinese we will be in deep shit, it could be a real bad time for us.

hes a crazy son of a bitch, he should have been delt with a long time ago, its too late now.

The US Army hasn't had tactical nuclear weapons for at least 10 to 15 years now...

[vh rides again]

The US Army hasn't had tactical nuclear weapons for at least 10 to 15 years now...

wrong


they were reduced, never were they gotten rid of.

heres 1 site that confirms it.

note the paragraph where it says this-

U.S. Presidential Nuclear Initiatives:

On Sept. 27, 1991, Bush announced a raft of unilateral initiatives to limit and reduce the U.S. tactical nuclear weapons arsenal.[2] Specifically, he pledged to:

•withdraw to the United States all ground-launched short-range weapons deployed overseas and destroy them along with existing U.S. stockpiles of the same weapons; and
•cease deployment of tactical nuclear weapons on surface ships, attack submarines, and land-based naval aircraft during “normal circumstances.” Implicitly, the United States reserved the right to redeploy these arms in a crisis.

The Presidential Nuclear Initiatives (PNIs) on Tactical Nuclear Weapons At a Glance | Arms Control Association (http://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/pniglance)

[letsrock]

The new owners will need a big war as soon as their bailout bubble pops. Also, we are going to have civil unrest and a tax revolt here in the United States. As one economist said yesterday. The arrogance of the US Corporate and Banking leaders is unreal and scary. They are going to continue to give themselves bonuses while the tell the rest of us to eat cake. It's going to boil over sometime. So I see the Executive Branch needing another big war and the people here dividing and revolting. The govt. will try and counter this by offering lots of govt. jobs to people to police and regulate the people who revolt. It will be a struggle between big govt. and people who are tired of big govt. As soon as the job losses mount up and the taxes go to unreal levels, this will happen.

I've always thought that would happen. Taxes are at an unreal level.
And the slap in the face is that the simple things we as a people want go elsewhere. We want for instance new schools and bridges, but our govt wont spend here it goes to other countries.

The people wont revolt. They are to scared to think for themselves. But it is funny now that the USA is begin on pulling out of Iraq, why? May need the soldiers here.

[letsrock]

Uh, wrong again.

a)I'm a vet. Your service don't mean shit to me, as you have dishonored yourself by admitting that you were getting paid to sit on your ass and spam this site. Grab a shovel and fill some potholes instead, you cunt.

b):lol: Big fucking deal. You're a lying cocksucker. Nothing new there. Didn't they fire you or some shit? :lol:

c) I sleep better at night knowing that my integrity is intact. You have a better chance of living on the sun than me EVER wishing I were you. I highly doubt YOU want that job.


Did you just call me a fagola?

:lmao:

You're welcome to come get some anytime, Johnny Rogaine.

Your funny. No i resigned from council. But to you that equates to be fired. Go read the link again idiot. If your a Vet then "dont ask, dont tell" was put in place for YOU.

Honor? For getting paid to sit at a computer? Man thats rich.
I will meet you anytime. Heck you can have some post the video on this site.
Your such a pussy.

grow some balls and post your real name on here. I did. Its not difficult.

[hideyoursheep]

Lets get some then.

How much you wanna put up?

[letsrock]

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

[thome]

C'MON I'll take you on kick your ass.. HELL!!! bring a friend I may get bored ..

FUKKIT!!!! I'll take all three of you on there is mothing going on in this bar anyway !!!

( stands up and starts doing "The Barney Fife Kata" )

Scared huh!!???

See what happens when the bartender is ugly.

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[davehagarfan]

I've been a subscriber of Gerald Calente's Trends Journal since 1989. I used it as a resource for a college term paper and thought it was a good publication so I subscribed. I made some money of of the information in it over the years so Gerald in my book is reputable.

Michael Moore is reputable in alot of people's book too

[Nickdfresh]

wrong


they were reduced, never were they gotten rid of.

heres 1 site that confirms it.

note the paragraph where it says this-

U.S. Presidential Nuclear Initiatives:

On Sept. 27, 1991, Bush announced a raft of unilateral initiatives to limit and reduce the U.S. tactical nuclear weapons arsenal.[2] Specifically, he pledged to:

•withdraw to the United States all ground-launched short-range weapons deployed overseas and destroy them along with existing U.S. stockpiles of the same weapons; and
•cease deployment of tactical nuclear weapons on surface ships, attack submarines, and land-based naval aircraft during “normal circumstances.” Implicitly, the United States reserved the right to redeploy these arms in a crisis.

The Presidential Nuclear Initiatives (PNIs) on Tactical Nuclear Weapons At a Glance | Arms Control Association (http://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/pniglance)

Where did it say anything about tactical nukes and the Army?

In fact, your link says that most US tac-nukes were destroyed by 2003 and that the only ones left are USAF gravity bombs...

Almost all US Army nukes (artillery shells and mines) were withdrawn from service in the early 1990s IIRC...

[vh rides again]

Where did it say anything about tactical nukes and the Army?

In fact, your link says that most US tac-nukes were destroyed by 2003 and that the only ones left are USAF gravity bombs...

Almost all US Army nukes (artillery shells and mines) were withdrawn from service in the early 1990s IIRC...

where did i say anything about the army, i mentioned tactical battlefield nuclear weapons, but you are correct that bush did get rid of the artillary type.

other than the obvious, why would anyone want to get rid of such a kick ass weapon.
check these bad boys out.

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[Nickdfresh]

where did i say anything about the army, i mentioned tactical battlefield nuclear weapons, but you are correct that bush did get rid of the artillary type.

why would anyone want to get rid of such a kick ass weapon.
check these bad boys out.

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Because that's what you described in your opening posts - and it's only kickass if your balls don't fall off due to radioactive fallout...

[vh rides again]

Because that's what you described in your opening posts - and it's only kickass if your balls don't fall off due to radioactive fallout...

i love how you edit peoples posts in quotes to try and seem intelligent.

[letsrock]

where did i say anything about the army, i <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/khyZI3RK2lE&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/khyZI3RK2lE&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Those are cool. But who would want to be that close to the explosion?

[davehagarfan]

CEO's when they are at the end of their rope and have no real sollutions always merge with another company. This usually distracts the investors from the real problems and rallys the stock short-term.

Politicians when they have no real sollutions start wars as a distraction. The resulting emergency becomes the new focus and they can use it as a rallying point for sacrifice and hardship.

Nothing new.

The system has been failing for a long-time and now they are desperate to hold onto their power and will do anything. It's a failed system desperately scratching to stay afloat and the greed makes them willing to do anything. Man. Have we fallen hard.


Fallen from where? Name me a period of time in our country when everything was "just right" economically and socially.

[letsrock]

Fallen from where? Name me a period of time in our country when everything was "just right" economically and socially.

Before the white man came here?
:biggrin:

[Nickdfresh]

i love how you edit peoples posts in quotes to try and seem intelligent.

It's not really "editing." More like deconstructing...

And I'm glad you love it. Incidently, while I may not be that intelligent, I did work in a program that was indirectly connected to nuclear weapons. Just admit you're owned and move on, and STFU...

[Nickdfresh]

Those are cool. But who would want to be that close to the explosion?

I think there was a study in which the infantrymen (draftees) that were ordered to advance into a ground level zero impact area just post nuclear detonation came out with extraordinarily high rates of cancer by their 60s...

[letsrock]

I would imagine that they did.
Heck there was a city south east of a Nevada test area where the whole town practicaly died of cancer. They were not only down wind, but the radiation got in the water as well.

[davehagarfan]

Before the white man came here?
:biggrin:



Funny but not true...the Spanish were here long before us

[hideyoursheep]

Funny but not true...the Spanish were here long before us

Prior to that things were far from perfect.

[davehagarfan]

Prior to that things were far from perfect.


People love to rosey up the past...it's human nature. Just like what Nitro is doing. Guys like Nitro need a boogieman to blame for all the uncertainties in life.