Obama Says He Prays 'All The Time' For Guidance

[FORD]

Obama Says He Prays 'All The Time' For Guidance


07/23/09 06:38 PM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20090723/us-obama-prayer/images/f2e61967-3b6a-4674-86e7-1c80a571ca61.jpg
President Barack Obama greets spectators after arriving at Cleveland Hopkins Airport, Thursday, July 23, 2009. Obama will visit the Cleveland Clinic and hold a town hall style meeting on health care reform at a local high school. (AP Photo/Mark Duncan)

WASHINGTON — President Barack Obama says he's gone from praying nightly before going to bed to praying all the time because he has a "lot of stuff" on his plate and needs "guidance all the time."

Obama made the comments in an interview to air Thursday on ABC's "Nightline."

Obama says he thinks every president has been humbled by the number of issues they have had to deal with. He says he thinks they are quickly cured of the illusion that one person can solve all those problems.

Obama Says He Prays 'All The Time' For Guidance (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/23/obama-says-he-prays-all-t_n_244029.html?view=screen)

[WARF]

I hope It's Jesus not Allah!

[Jesus Christ]

I can verify the authenticity of this story. Verily, some days I check My inbox, and all the prayer messages are from thy President. :jesuslol:

[Blackflag]

Didn't we have another president who was searching for holy inspiration for his job?

[WARF]

Didn't we have another president who was searching for holy inspiration for his job?

No, Michael Dukakis lost in 88'

[Jesus Christ]

Didn't we have another president who was searching for holy inspiration for his job?

Yes, but he never listened to Me. :(

[Sucker of Satan's Penis]

That's because he's too busy listening to ME!

[Dolemite!]

The Bush-O'bubba parallels build up more and more every day. But he's a stupid liar or confused like Bush, because you don't shake hands with Brzenzski and then claim you pray to God.

[Big Train]

I'm surprised frankly Ford doesn't make a huge deal out of it. With Bush, ever time he mentioned God it was a big deal. Barry O does the same thing....pass.

[FORD]

I'm surprised frankly Ford doesn't make a huge deal out of it. With Bush, ever time he mentioned God it was a big deal. Barry O does the same thing....pass.

Chimpy was obviously a hypocrite who was just pandering to the right wing base. Obama (sadly) has done anything BUT pander to the Democratic base, but I doubt he's pandering to the religious reich either.

Jimmy Carter prayed a lot, and I believe he was sincere about it. Obama? Well I guess time will tell if he's actually listening to JC or not. Not Jimmy, the original JC.

[FORD]

The Bush-O'bubba parallels build up more and more every day. But he's a stupid liar or confused like Bush, because you don't shake hands with Brzenzski and then claim you pray to God.

Fuck off baby raper. Nobody asked you.

[bueno bob]

Obama is the first U.S. President I have EVER seen who has even acknowledged the fact that there's a HUGE amount of the U.S. who doesn't appeal to ANY higher power for guidance/intervention/money/favors/etc.

I think that's VERY cool. Better than pretending everybody in the U.S. is a bible thumper and holds to southern bible belt morality.

[Sucker of Satan's Penis]

Obama (sadly) has done anything BUT pander to the Democratic base, but I doubt he's pandering to the religious reich either.

There is no religious Reich, there is only believer OR infidel!

.. and of course, My Messenger. But that's about it. Nothing else matters, it's all about ME ME ME and either you serve me, or you die.

Or others die. Death to the Unbelievers, and all hear My servant, Buraq!

[FORD]

Dumbest.Alias.Ever.

[Blackflag]

Dumbest.Alias.Ever.

Yeah, what kind of an asshole would post political bullshit as a deity?

[FORD]

Yeah, what kind of an asshole would post political bullshit as a deity?

Well, hopefully someone who would at least know enough about the religion to NOT post on that religion's Sabbath day. :biggrin:

[Dolemite!]

Fuck off baby raper. Nobody asked you.

You're a stupid piece of shit. Unlike me, you have blood on your hands voting in and enabling the deaths of innocents dying in Pakistan and elsewhere. You have zero right to speak so fuck off with your posing as Christ morality and politically correct bullshit.

[Nickdfresh]

You're a stupid piece of shit. Unlike me, you have blood on your hands voting in and enabling the deaths of innocents dying in Pakistan and elsewhere. You have zero right to speak so fuck off with your posing as Christ morality and politically correct bullshit.

Says the idiot who claims to live in Scotland, a NATO country under the UK with kids in Iraq too...

[FORD]

You're a stupid piece of shit. Unlike me, you have blood on your hands voting in and enabling the deaths of innocents dying in Pakistan and elsewhere. You have zero right to speak so fuck off with your posing as Christ morality and politically correct bullshit.

Shit..... it's only a matter of time before you bust out the Krishna alias. Or will you go with Ganesh, since an elephant would be more appropriate for your right wing talking points.

Is there a specific Hindu deity for fucking children, or would that fall under the general heading of Shiva, goddess of destruction?

[Dolemite!]

Shit..... it's only a matter of time before you bust out the Krishna alias. Or will you go with Ganesh, since an elephant would be more appropriate for your right wing talking points.

Is there a specific Hindu deity for fucking children, or would that fall under the general heading of Shiva, goddess of destruction?


I already knew you were a borderline redneck no need to go all the way out to prove it.

Say all you want liar, but the mind of the average male is all the same. You're a sad, politically correct automaton.

[Dolemite!]

Says the idiot who claims to live in Scotland, a NATO country under the UK with kids in Iraq too...


And there is a strong anti-war sentiment in Scotland, moron.

[Seshmeister]

Says the idiot who claims to live in Scotland, a NATO country under the UK with kids in Iraq too...

He seems to be pretending he's in Hawaii now, or maybe he's just cuntfused.

[FORD]

He seems to be pretending he's in Hawaii now, or maybe he's just cuntfused.

Well they're both islands, and men sometimes wear skirts in both places. Other than that, really not a lot in common.

[Nickdfresh]

He seems to be pretending he's in Hawaii now, or maybe he's just cuntfused.

He's now using the famous, or infamous, "Woodstock, Illinois" proxy...

[Dolemite!]

Ford is good at demonizing anything he thinks is on the opposing side. The BCE are guilty of horrible conspiracy theories, but Obama isn't, not a bit. There are mainstream sheep and there are conspiracy crazy sheep. You're both. Some people are evil "baby rapers" for thinking young girls are fair game but not when it's his heroes like Keith Moon and others.

This along with your support of gays and others when it's the politically, morally right thing to do, but not in "jokes" about faggotry, makes you a pointless, shallow buffoon, and one arrogant enough to speak for Christ.

Sir, sincerely,
go fuck yourself,

with a thick dildo.

[Nickdfresh]

And there is a strong anti-war sentiment in Scotland, moron.

Is there?

http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/arts/2007/05/03/braveheart460.jpg

[Seshmeister]

And there is a strong anti-war sentiment in Scotland, moron.

I've been arguing against both wars for years.

Everyone is a moron to you but all you do is prove your stupidity. Even the most outspoken leaders of the Antiwar groups in the UK supported Obama's election.

Your constant naivety makes me hope for your sake that you are just a kid but either way you need to read and listen and think a lot more.

[FORD]

Ford is good at demonizing anything he thinks is on the opposing side. The BCE are guilty of horrible conspiracy theories, but Obama isn't, not a bit. There are mainstream sheep and there are conspiracy crazy sheep. You're both. Some people are evil "baby rapers" for thinking young girls are fair game but not when it's his heroes like Keith Moon and others.

This along with your support of gays and others when it's the politically, morally right thing to do, but not in "jokes" about faggotry, makes you a pointless, shallow buffoon, and one arrogant enough to speak for Christ.





I don't joke about "faggots". I joke about baby raping pedophile perverted fucks like yourself.

There's nothing wrong with being gay. There's everything wrong with fucking children.

Get lost, Andy Pedobear. You ain't wanted around here.

[Dolemite!]

There's always a case to be made for war against England or the US.

[Seshmeister]

Is there?

http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/arts/2007/05/03/braveheart460.jpg

Depends the war... :)

I think there was always a majority against Iraq say 60/40 which grew to a consensus, Afghanistan is maybe 50/50.

[Dolemite!]

I don't joke about "faggots". I joke about baby raping pedophile perverted fucks like yourself.

There's nothing wrong with being gay. There's everything wrong with fucking children.

Get lost, Andy Pedobear. You ain't wanted around here.


Moron.

Where does the "baby raping" come in from? The pics on your hard drive perhaps.

That goes for your posts too. You're a mod, so everyone's just too nice to tell you you're an idiot.

[Nickdfresh]

There's always a case to be made for war against England or the US.


Especially when one is a troll still shitting in diapers...:biggrin:

[Guitar Shark]

You're a mod, so everyone's just too nice to tell you you're an idiot.

I'm a mod and I freely admit my idiocy.

[Dolemite!]

I've been arguing against both wars for years.

Everyone is a moron to you but all you do is prove your stupidity. Even the most outspoken leaders of the Antiwar groups in the UK supported Obama's election.

Your constant naivety makes me hope for your sake that you are just a kid but either way you need to read and listen and think a lot more.



What are they saying now? Umm... I see cases in the US where libs are going off Obama, so if these anti-war groups are paying attention their support will fade too.

[FORD]

I'm a mod and I freely admit my idiocy.

I thought that was because you're an ambulance chaser? :biggrin:

[Nickdfresh]

...enabling the deaths of innocents dying in Pakistan and elsewhere....


Everyone knows that only Indians have the moral right to enable the death of Pakis (BTW, your country was supporting the Taliban's enemy in the Northern Alliance before "mine" was)...


Your supposed country of origin has killed a lot more of them than Obama ever has. But oh yeah, they deserved it then...

[Dolemite!]

Same old regurgitated bullshit. You know well I don't support that. You've got nothing on me.

[Nickdfresh]

Same old regurgitated bullshit. You know well I don't support that. You've got nothing on me.

Got "nothing on you?" What's that mean? And you were pretty much pissing that it was all the Pakis fault your country had to invade them last time we spoke of this...

What do you support? The Pakistani intelligence agency (ISI?) supporting Kashmiri terrorists?

Pakistan effectively occupying and pissing all over the Afghans via what was little more than a controllable proxy regime in the Talubs?

[Dolemite!]

Never said Pak were the good guys. Maybe if they all just kicked back and chilled... that would be an awesome solution.

[Nickdfresh]

Or maybe if they worried more about controlling their own provinces like Waziristan and less about controlling Afghanistan and Kashmir, we wouldn't be as fucked as we are now.

But then, the US has sent them a lot of weapons.....

[Dolemite!]

Nothing will change in the region as long as they live in a state of ignorance and radicalization. The more bombs that fall, the more it is destabilised and the more radical they get. I'm all for spreading democracy but not through war or simply asking them to take the US for it's word that it means well.

[Seshmeister]

Nobody dropped bombs on you but you're still ignorant and radical... :)

[Dolemite!]

Nobody dropped bombs on you but you're still ignorant and radical... :)

It's a good thing your degree wasn't in wit or you'd have flunked the very first year. :)

[GAR]

geez.. like Obama doesn't know which way to pray to Mecca from the Oval Office by now. He's probably got a football lawn chalker to keep the grass marked with a bigassed arrow visible from any window he's looking out of!

[bueno bob]

geez.. like Obama doesn't know which way to pray to Mecca from the Oval Office by now. He's probably got a football lawn chalker to keep the grass marked with a bigassed arrow visible from any window he's looking out of!

Having known several Muslims, I can state for sure that any active practicing Muslim who has even one whit of seriousness about him or herself knows exactly which direction it's in.

Of course, every religion has its own stupidity element to it. Knock facing Mecca all you like, but the educated and enlightened can sit back and point out about 6000 things in any other religion, Christianity included, which are equally idiotic and ridiculous.

[bueno bob]

Nothing will change in the region as long as they live in a state of ignorance and radicalization. The more bombs that fall, the more it is destabilised and the more radical they get. I'm all for spreading democracy but not through war or simply asking them to take the US for it's word that it means well.

How about just doing away with religion in general? And make it all encompassing to boot?

I guarantee you, you make everybody in the world atheist through education, enlightenment and patience to disprove their religion (and it can be done with EVERY religion) and you'll see a new world order of peace, tolerance and understanding within the first twenty years which will surpass anything that has come before it in all of human history.

And I mean Christians, Catholics, Jews, Mormons, Muslims, Hindus, Buddists, Wiccans, EVERYTHING.

[Nickdfresh]

....which are equally idiotic and ridiculous.

The above pretty much sums up every post by GAR...

[Dolemite!]

How about just doing away with religion in general? And make it all encompassing to boot?

I guarantee you, you make everybody in the world atheist through education, enlightenment and patience to disprove their religion (and it can be done with EVERY religion) and you'll see a new world order of peace, tolerance and understanding within the first twenty years which will surpass anything that has come before it in all of human history.

And I mean Christians, Catholics, Jews, Mormons, Muslims, Hindus, Buddists, Wiccans, EVERYTHING.


I'm for taking away every sort of group category and the mentality that drives it. Religion isn't the cause, it's another symptom of herd mentality and people start mirroring their parents and socializing themselves into different groups versus another from the time they're babies. If you removed religion you would still have ideology against ideology, democrat versus repub. Spirituality would be the only way for people to relate and understand their inter connectedness. The real problem is people latching onto to some group to identify with, and that doesn't have to be religious.

[Blackflag]

I guarantee you, you make everybody in the world atheist through education, enlightenment and patience to disprove their religion (and it can be done with EVERY religion) and you'll see a new world order

I'm pretty sure that's already been tried, and it didn't work out. Read a book, clown.

:finger-attitude:

[Blackflag]

The above pretty much sums up every post by GAR...

And your JCVD fascination.

[FORD]

I'm pretty sure that's already been tried, and it didn't work out. Read a book, clown.

:finger-attitude:

Or watch South Park (http://www.southparkstudios.com/episodes/103800) :biggrin:

[bueno bob]

I'm pretty sure that's already been tried, and it didn't work out. Read a book, clown.

:finger-attitude:

Why don't you read a fucking book, dipshit? There hasn't been a cohesive, organized effort to destroy ALL forms of organized (or disorganized) religion until very recently in human history. Luckily enough, with the recent advent of online communication and the ensuing ease of global communication and global organization, atheists are finally able to band together and educate the illiterate masses still praying to the sun for tons of money to make their lives easier.

Richard Dawkins much? Clark Adams much? Dan Barker much? Annie Gaylor much? Edwin Kagen much? James Randi? Ellen Johnson? Any of those names ringing any fucking bells in your empty head? Oh, I've read plenty of books, asshat.

On the plus side, over the last hundred years or so, the movement has been pretty effective. Maybe you should educate yourself about what's going on with religion over in European countries (and even here in the states) before you shoot your ignorant fucking mouth off, cunt.

Oh, short of that I can educate YOU on how many religious wars have been fought stating "My religion is better than yours!!" over the last 4000 years and how many lives have been taken just to put one ideology up in front of the other.

Don't even THINK you can fucking begin to compete with me in that field. You can't.

I've known for some time now that you'll open your mouth and spout of any old crock of shit that comes into your head quite often, but frankly, that's the stupidest, most uneducated, empty headed and thoughtless thing I've seen you type yet. Congratulations Sparky, you get the prize of the day.

[ELVIS]

Obama Says He Prays to Satan 'All The Time' For Guidance



It's about time we get some truth around here...

[Satan]

It's about time we get some truth around here...

But that's not the truth at all. Now on the other horn..... John Boner. Mitch McConnell. Sean Hannity. Rush Limbaugh..... those guys call me daily on my Hellular phone. http://www.cosgan.de/images/smilie/teufel/d010.gif

[ELVIS]

Sod off...:rolleyes:

[Blackflag]

Why don't you read a fucking book, dipshit? There hasn't been a cohesive, organized effort to destroy ALL forms of organized (or disorganized) religion until very recently in human history.

All you want is to try and get everybody to believe what you believe. And you want your belief integrated into the government. How is that any different from radical religious folks? How is that any different from Iran?

You're right...it has been tried "very recently in human history." It failed. Miserably.

Let me clarify...get your head out of the Dawkins comic books and read a history book. Ignorant child.

[Satan]

Sod off...:rolleyes:

When did you turn British? http://www.cosgan.de/images/smilie/teufel/d025.gif

[Nickdfresh]

And your JCVD fascination.

I have to have something in common with the North Korean leadership...

[Blackflag]

I have to have something in common with the North Korean leadership...

? Please explain.

[sadaist]

Obama (sadly) has done anything BUT pander to the Democratic base..



How many thousands of earmarks were in his bill?

[thome]

I so CRAP MYSELF when all the "Intelectuals Enlightened Elite of the World" bitch and piss all over people who believe in -The Bible-..and wait for it...a...is a..... _ _ _ _??

By telling them to read "This" or "That"............ BOOK....to free yourself of false info and become free of the control of religion and ...

OH FUKK ME!!! AH HAH AHHAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!

The world is fukking full of the stupidest bullshit assmunch mother fikkin self righteous dumbasses in the galaxy baby ............and it's all right there in black and white!!!

Let the mother fukker pray I could care less which diety he is in touch with as long as he doesn't listen to the neighborhood stray dog and go assassinate someone asper the dogs verbal instructions. .

"THAT BOOK SUUKKSS, BUT THIS ONE"......................... fits right up your ass like it was meant to be.TRY IT!!!

[bueno bob]

All you want is to try and get everybody to believe what you believe.

It's certainly more sensible than the so-called "faith based" doctrines and ideals which incessantly argue with other faith based doctrines and ideals, and inevitably call for the destruction of all those who disagree with whichever book you're reading at the time under the guise of a "holy mandate". Education and sensibility beats blind faith and oppression of opposing viewpoints any way you slice it, wouldn't you agree?

That's just plain common sense.


And you want your belief integrated into the government.

Wrong. This is the immediate perspective of the uneducated. Hear it from the religious right all the time. What is aspired are seeing laws and mindsets enacted solely from ancient myths removed from the governmental process all together. I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that it's referred to as "separation of church and state".

Religion and government in the same handcart inevitably breed chaos. A quick overview of basic religious empire in global history should establish that for you beyond any shadow of a doubt. And you rail on about "history books"! LMAO! It's brilliantly apparent that you're not exactly familiar with them yourself based on your posts. When governments become "religious", the populace governed gets trampled under tyranny by way of "holy mandate" and it needs to STOP. Entirely.

Separation of church and state. Look it up, see what it ACTUALLY means.


How is that any different from radical religious folks? How is that any different from Iran?

Exceptionally different for the reasons I just pointed out to you. Mostly, I'd call that common sense. Any third grader should be able to ascertain the difference.


You're right...it has been tried "very recently in human history." It failed. Miserably.

Really? Funny viewpoint for you to take. I don't recall atheists taking to the street with spears and torches and pitchforks and swords in an effort to lynch anybody with a religious perspective, but I'm sure you'll correct me where I'm wrong. I certainly could list you thousands of examples where the religious populace of the world did exactly that, however. And, since the atheist population is RISING considerably year after year, it seems to be the case to those with a base ability to reason that they were the ones who inevitably failed.

People everywhere, from ALL walks of life and ALL religions, are waking up every day and realizing that ancient dogma that worked for sheep herders out in the field thousands of years ago no longer applies in this day and age. Like 8 track tapes, monogamous relationships, marriages that last and nuclear families that earn enough money to survive on, it's an outdated concept that has lived longer than it's expiration date. Sensible, rational people see that as apparent.

Opposing Views: NEWS: Survey Shows Number of U.S. Christians Falling, Atheists Rising (http://www.opposingviews.com/articles/news-survey-shows-number-of-us-christians-falling-atheists-rising)

The State News: Rising numbers of nonbelievers increase popularity of atheism (http://www.statenews.com/index.php/article/2007/01/rising_numbers_of_nonbelievers)

Atheists Looking to Give and Receive Community Support - ABC News (http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=8111485&page=1)

http://www.dakotavoice.com/2009/02/humanist-group-contends-atheism-on-the-rise/

There's about a half a million more news articles from both the religious and the non religious news agencies out there, among other independent sources, but I'll leave you to your own devices regarding your enlightenment and self discovery as to the declining state of all religions in the world.


Let me clarify...get your head out of the Dawkins comic books and read a history book.

Maybe you should try one yourself? Atheists, the non religious, whatever you care to call them...people are getting educated and realizing that religion is a fool's game. There's no denying it. Except, maybe, for you and the religious. Go back to the sand, your hole's getting cold without your head in it...


Ignorant child.

Said the dimwit who his demonstrates his lack of education on the current state of the world regarding the subject? LOL

Don't worry; you pray for me, I'll think for you.

[Blackflag]

It's certainly more sensible than the so-called "faith based" doctrines...

That's your opinion. Start a website and try to get people to agree with you.




What is aspired are seeing laws. . .

Once you want laws enacted, you're using the government to convince people of your beliefs. In your first post, you said you wanted "education," presumably in the schools, to convince people of your viewpoint. And whether you're a jew, christian, or athiest, that's contrary to the first amendment and morally disgusting. That's no different than me saying I want laws and "education" that will convince people to convert to Islam. The only difference is that you think your religion is "common sense." :umm:

You're obviously very wound up about this topic, and your idea of a discussion is ranting like a child and calling me a third grader. So I'll leave the discussion with this: You're free to believe in atheism as much as you like, and raise your kids however you like. Once you start espousing government laws and education to convert others to your beliefs, you've become just another controlling fanatic that you hate so much.

If you have such a hard-on for converting people to your beliefs, start a website and go door-to-door just like all the other zealots have to. Leave the government out of it.





Really? Funny viewpoint for you to take. I don't recall atheists taking to the street with spears and torches and pitchforks and swords in an effort to lynch anybody with a religious perspective, but I'm sure you'll correct me where I'm wrong.

They didn't, they did it with the stroke of a pen, using the "laws" you're advocating. In the Soviet Union and in China. The Soviets FAILED, for a number of reasons that are too extensive to get into. China is a FAILURE in progress, and they've already started letting people practice their religions in the open again.

And your small-minded ideas: FAIL. They're just regurgitated shit from the one-sided sensationalist books you eat up.




p.s. :fufu:

[bueno bob]

That's your opinion. Start a website and try to get people to agree with you.

There's half a million of them already. Based on the numbers, well, they seem to be working. More and more people are becoming sensible every day. That's not opinion; it's fact.


Once you want laws enacted, you're using the government to convince people of your beliefs.

WRONG

Again, religion belongs OUT of the law making process.

Are you having difficulty following that idea? You seem to keep defaulting to this perspective that I want "laws enacted" to keep religion out of government.

There is no need to have 'laws' against it; it just needs to be TAKEN OUT. It's not hard to figure out. I've certainly made it clear.


In your first post, you said you wanted "education," presumably in the schools, to convince people of your viewpoint.

Science isn't a "viewpoint". It's a fact, proven and established by scientific principles. Nor does it have to be done in schools alone. In fact, one could argue that I'm educating you right now. 1+1=2 because it DOES, not because, darnit all, I have faith that it does. Religion and other ideologies are opinions. People need to be educated to hard facts and informed of what's proven by science, investigation and rational evidence, not opinions or best guestimates from mystic books thousands of years old that have no verification or basis in reality outside of historical fiction (and historical fiction is a generous term, considering how many elements of religion simple science and archeology have continuously proven false and continue to do so on a daily basis).


And whether you're a jew, christian, or athiest, that's contrary to the first amendment and morally disgusting.

Whose "morals"? Yours? I think putting your hand on a bible (or any other work of historical fiction) and swearing to tell the truth while on the stand in court or be a good President or anything else is morally disgusting because it puts religion into a place of government and/or any other legal business and therefore represents an demonstration of establishment of religion in a government process. And THAT is contrary to the first amendment as well.

As far as free practice of religion? Fine. But don't congregate, don't bleed tax payers dry with tax exempt churches and don't base laws or other governmental practice around it. Go pray in a fucking closet. That's what Christ supposedly said to do anyway, right? Oh yeah: "And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you." - Matthew 6:5-6.

What is it, amateur hour around here? I'd expect those kind of arguments out of first week born again converts. Up your game.


That's no different than me saying I want laws and "education" that will convince people to convert to Islam.

It's grossly different. Were you to take that viewpoint, than you'd want laws enacted to teach people to follow a mystic, magical, opinion-filled belief unprovable by any known scientific evidence or theory.

I espouse science. You DO know the difference between "fact" and "opinion", right?


The only difference is that you think your religion is "common sense." :umm:

Atheism isn't a religion. It's a lack of. It's also a scientific perspective based on factual evidence and historical backing with a groundwork in mathematics and archeology. "Religion", as you're selling it, would include guesswork, faith, best estimates, rough ideas, threats of retribution or reward in another life beyond this one and a mystical creation-grid on which to base the universe. It's the walking visualization of a lack of knowledge. You may as well believe the boogymonster is under your bed, too.

Big difference. Again, 1+1=2 because I can prove it. Can you prove the monster under your bed?


You're obviously very wound up about this topic, and your idea of a discussion is ranting like a child and calling me a third grader.

Absolutely the case. I feel extremely strongly about this topic. You want to follow a church state to its logical conclusion? Go send your girlfriend to live in Afghanistan for a while and let me know how awesome religious tyranny is for her.

And as far as ranting, let's see...

*****

"How about just doing away with religion in general? And make it all encompassing to boot?

I guarantee you, you make everybody in the world atheist through education, enlightenment and patience to disprove their religion (and it can be done with EVERY religion) and you'll see a new world order of peace, tolerance and understanding within the first twenty years which will surpass anything that has come before it in all of human history.

And I mean Christians, Catholics, Jews, Mormons, Muslims, Hindus, Buddists, Wiccans, EVERYTHING. "

*****

Pretty basic opinion. Self explanatory, non inflammatory statement of opinion on the subject. Framed as fact, sure, but I think it's a pretty logical statement to make based on the thousands of years of violence and bloodshed that have resulted from religious wars. Obviously the lack of an irritating agent would result in, oh, less irritation?

Now, what was your response? Something to the effect of

*****

"I'm pretty sure that's already been tried, and it didn't work out. Read a book, clown."

:finger-attitude:

*****

Right?

You obviously wanted a fight, bitch. Now you got one. Taking the "higher ground" now? Knock yourself out, but next time bring a little more in the way of firepower cause buddy, you are SADLY coming up short. You've got a book of matches and I've got a fucking flamethrower.


You're free to believe in atheism as much as you like, and raise your kids however you like.

I do and they will be.


Once you start espousing government laws and education to convert others to your beliefs, you've become just another controlling fanatic that you hate so much.

There are no worse fanatics than religious fanatics. I haven't seen scientists arm themselves and embark on any holy jihads to spill the blood of the faithful in the streets until they convert to common sense. Doubt I ever will, either, although I can rest safe in the knowledge that there will CERTAINLY be more wars over religion before there are less. History has established that beyond all doubt, but please...feel free to argue it with me.

And, of course, let's remind folks here that I haven't espoused the advent of "government laws" - I've simply stated that laws enacted out of "faith" and religious practice in the field of government needs to cease as a matter of common sense and fairness to everybody. Education in science and history and the viewpoint of any bible as what it is, a source of historical fiction as proven by established precepts of science and archeology, is hardly a crime.

If scholastic education of established facts and provable scientific knowledge has become a crime, then I suppose the only alternative is to do away with that reasoning, or at the very least include all sorts of different theories about magic and mysticism and giants from beyond the stars waiting to spank you for all eternity if you sleep with a girl outside of marriage or masturbate too much.

Of course, had we NOT already had that for a few hundred years (I believe they were referred to as "The Dark Ages"), mankind would unquestionably be hundreds of years ahead where it is now in its knowledge and technology, global ecology wouldn't be a concern..who knows? Maybe we would have even colonized other planets at this point.

But hey, thank God that didn't happen.


If you have such a hard-on for converting people to your beliefs, start a website and go door-to-door just like all the other zealots have to. Leave the government out of it.

Leaving the government "out of it" is EXACTLY the point. Nice to see you finally get it.


They didn't, they did it with the stroke of a pen, using the "laws" you're advocating.

What laws? Oh, the laws enacting removal of religion from the government? Ahh, but I wasn't ever professing the enacting of laws into government, was I? How many times do you need that simple concept explained to you?

Never mind. You'll just default to it again.


In the Soviet Union and in China. The Soviets FAILED, for a number of reasons that are too extensive to get into.

LMAO

As of 2005, up to 48% of Russia declared itself either atheist, agnostic or just as a general non believer without any title. One of the guys I work with is even more militantly atheist than I am, and an activist, and he just got back from being stationed there. The numbers haven't declined much since then.

Nice try, though.

Adherents.com: Atheist Statistics | Agnostic (http://www.adherents.com/largecom/com_atheist.html)


China is a FAILURE in progress, and they've already started letting people practice their religions in the open again.

Coerced atheism is falling in proportion with the failure of communism. Voluntary atheism is rising everywhere, and there's a difference. A forced belief structure is oppressive; I'm glad to see it go. The peasants of the country have lost their way of life with the decrease of forced communism - considering their status, of course new found religious freedom is going to be embraced. That's something any juvenile could see. Provided higher education becomes available to its HUGE peasant population which really has nothing to fall back on right now OTHER than religion due to the loss of communism as a way of life, well...in ten years, we'll see how that goes. People can UNlearn mysticism just as easily as they can learn it, so long as the proper tools are provided. It was all I needed.

Chinas levels of higher education are growing rapidly, though; once the numbers stabilize you'll be able to use that argument a little more effectively, should the numbers go your way and religion continues to grow AFTER higher education has taken on more of a presence. Of course, as with anything oppressed directly by any government, there will be an increase in it once oppression is lightened.


And your small-minded ideas: FAIL.

Haven't really made that case yet though, have ya?


They're just regurgitated shit from the one-sided sensationalist books you eat up.

Well, pray for me then. Maybe God will send a bolt of lightning down on my hand and send this poor, wayward sheep back to his flock...

:rolleyes:

And finally, since you're "leaving the discussion"...


So I'll leave the discussion with this:

Leaving the discussion is the smartest move you've made thus far. I commend you for it. You're at least sensible enough to know when you're completely outgunned, and for walking away, props. No bullshit.

[bueno bob]

http://www.gdargaud.net/Humor/Pics/Bible.jpg

[bueno bob]

By the love, I LOVED this part:

"Originally Posted by bueno bob:
What is aspired are seeing laws..."

(Note that you decided to cut my quote off at that point, COMPLETELY misrepresenting what I actually said in the process, but I guess post editing isn't entirely outside of your arsenal. Amateur, but educational about your game, or lack thereof as the case may be...)

To which you replied:

"Once you want laws enacted..."

LMAO

Of course, I never said ANYTHING about having "laws enacted". Had you posted my ENTIRE quote (without the "..." that conveniently benefited you), it would have went like this:

"What is aspired (to) are seeing laws and mindsets enacted solely from ancient myths removed from the governmental process all together."

Of course, you completely fucking misrepresented that point just to try and make YOUR off-base argument about my supposed desire to oppress the religious with laws against them drive home clearer. A point that, of course, has no basis in actuality except for in your own obviously uninspired imagination.

Pretty much a typical knee-jerk response from a religious person. Can't argue the point? Eliminate half the words and argue something else completely different out of it! Don't like what the bible says about something? Change the interpretation! Jesus corrected all that old testament stuff, right? Yeah! That's the ticket!

I see my estimation of your third grade mindset wasn't all that far off, was it?

Ladies and gentlemen, let's hear it for bueno bob...

http://blogs.smh.com.au/mashup/images/applause.gif

[Nickdfresh]

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/wgQzkfxKQbQ&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/wgQzkfxKQbQ&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[ELVIS]

http://www.gdargaud.net/Humor/Pics/Bible.jpg

That may be the single worst post i've come across at this website...

[Satan]

I thought it was funny. And I'm actually IN the Bible! http://www.cosgan.de/images/smilie/teufel/d025.gif

[bueno bob]

That may be the single worst post i've come across at this website...

Unfortunately it's also an exceptionally accurate description. I know; I've read it.

Sorry. :)

[standin]

<object width="660" height="525"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/si4-gOqqlB8&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0&color1=0x3a3a3a&color2=0x999999&border=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/si4-gOqqlB8&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0&color1=0x3a3a3a&color2=0x999999&border=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="660" height="525"></embed></object>

The popular song "Prayer of the Children" is sung by thousands of choirs worldwide. This version features Bestor himself singing - along with Sam Cardon, Keni Yarbro, and Paul Engemann.

Music by Kurt Bestor
Produced by Brian Blosil.
Executive Producers: Randy Blosil and Bruce Bastian.
Innovators - Prayer of the Children

[ELVIS]

I've read it.



I kinda doubt that, but i'll be fair and take your word...

But if you did read it, you were either already biased, or God has prevented you from it's understanding. And if you indeed did read it, you would have found exactly what I just said...


:elvis:

[ELVIS]

let me expound on 'prevented.'


Psalm 69:23

New International Version
May their eyes be darkened so they cannot see, and their backs be bent forever.

New American Standard Bible
May their eyes grow dim so that they cannot see, And make their loins shake continually.

GOD'S WORD Translation
Let their vision become clouded so that they cannot see. Let their thighs continually shake.

King James Bible
Let their eyes be darkened, that they see not; and make their loins continually to shake.

American King James Version
Let their eyes be darkened, that they see not; and make their loins continually to shake.

American Standard Version
Let their eyes be darkened, so that they cannot see; And make their loins continually to shake.

Bible in Basic English
Let their eyes be blind so that they may not see; let their bodies for ever be shaking.



:elvis:

[Seshmeister]

Which parts of the warnings in Bob's picture do you think are untrue?

I don't understand your objection.

[bueno bob]

I kinda doubt that, but i'll be fair and take your word...

Thank you. I have, cover to cover, at least three or four times.


But if you did read it, you were either already biased, or God has prevented you from it's understanding. And if you indeed did read it, you would have found exactly what I just said...


:elvis:

Well, it's a book, at least several thousand years old, most of which was written through oral history passed down years after the facts in question took place. I stated that I look at it as "historical fiction", and I don't think it should be taken as anything more serious than that, frankly.

As soon as one element was proven inaccurate by science and/or archeology, the whole of it was called into question.

Of that warning sticker picture, all of those things warned about occur in the bible. Incest, violence and bloodshed, revenge, bigotry, human rights violations, lawlessness, contempt for authority...those things are all present in the old testament; in fact, that's practically the majority of the old testament.

I don't for a second believe that "God has blinded me" as to being able to correctly interpret the bible. Due to the fact that God is all love all the time and wants all hearts to be open to him so that they come to see him through Jesus Christ, blinding my eyes to the works written therein intentionally would mean that the plan is self-defeating. Unless he's bored and doing it to keep himself interested in the game, which IS possible; I suppose infinity would breed infinite boredom.

Still, logic dictates that I'm not the only one he'd put through that wringer, since it's written in the bible. I'd assume there's not a passage thereafter that says "This means you, Bob!". So in reality, are those the actions of a deity worthy of trust?

No.

The alternative is that those words were added by somebody who had a religious agenda to pursue and was (quite rightly) fearful of people who would read the words in that book and question their authenticity and accuracy.

"Well, uh...if they question it, then God has made them to question it because his plan is perfect and he's, uh, got a plan for them. Hellfire and damnation! Now let's go convert at the point of the sword!"

Which option do you think sounds more reasonable? More feasible?

Be honest.

[ELVIS]

Of that warning sticker picture, all of those things warned about occur in the bible. Incest, violence and bloodshed, revenge, bigotry, human rights violations, lawlessness, contempt for authority...those things are all present in the old testament; in fact, that's practically the majority of the old testament.



They are present, but the Bible in no way advocates them...

[Seshmeister]

About.com: http (http://atheism.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=atheism&cdn=religion&tm=32&f=10&tt=2&bt=0&bts=0&zu=http&#37;3A//www.zazzle.com/bible_warning_sticker-217586842335457670)

Cool!

You can buy these stickers in packs of 6 for $5.

I'm going to start putting them on Gideon bibles in hotels when I'm traveling around.

I had thought of starting to autograph them stuff like "To Jonny, best wishes Jesus" or whatever but this is definitely cooler.

[Seshmeister]

Not that anyone ever reads them...

[Seshmeister]

They are present, but the Bible in no way advocates them...

God does throughout.

[ELVIS]

Whatever...

[Seshmeister]

Actually reading it again it says 'contains verses descriptive or advocating' anyway.

[ELVIS]

Well, believe the silly sticker...

Maybe you're not so intelligent afterall...

[Guitar Shark]

But if you did read it, you were either already biased, or God has prevented you from it's understanding.

God doesn't want people to understand the Bible? That's a new one!

Bonus points for creativity, Mr. Presley.

[LoungeMachine]

Whatever...

:lmao:

Well argued!!

:gulp:

[Seshmeister]

Well, believe the silly sticker...

Maybe you're not so intelligent afterall...

It's not a case of believing or not believing something.

The sticker merely states some of the events described in the Old Testament.

I thought you had read it?

[ELVIS]

God doesn't want people to understand the Bible? That's a new one!

Bonus points for creativity, Mr. Presley.

Read it, counselor...

[ELVIS]

This guy is pretty sharp...


http://lh5.ggpht.com/_mmyoHPEE4Yc/Sj0D195YzcI/AAAAAAAAAr0/TMon4wVbl28/s800/picture2life_48429_original.jpg

July 17, 2009 (http://bible-prophecy-today.blogspot.com/2009/07/blind-faith-in-jesus-christ.html)

Blind Faith in Jesus Christ?


By Britt Gillette

Recently, I read a blog post and accompanying comments which addressed an article I had previously written. Unfortunately, the post and some of the comments focused on challenging the Word of God and denigrating believers in Jesus Christ.

But this is nothing new. We’ve seen these types of comments before.

They go something like this…

“The bible is a fairy tale.”
“God is completely made up.”
“Why won’t God show Himself?”
“Where’s the evidence of God?”
“Christians are idiots with blind faith in fairy tales.”
Some of these statements are blatantly false opinions unsubstantiated by fact, while others are legitimate questions. The remainder of this article will attempt to address these points for the non-believer.

Is God Made Up?

God is certainly not a figment of man’s imagination. In fact, it’s the idea that God doesn’t exist that’s a concept invented by mankind, not the other way around.

As God is quick to remind us…
“Only fools say in their hearts, ‘There is no God.’” Psalm 14:1 (NLT)
It’s pure foolishness to deny the existence of God.

Why?

Because evidence of His existence is all around us, a point which will be addressed in detail momentarily.

But right now, we should be more concerned with where this idea comes from. Why do so many people outright reject the idea of God’s existence? After all, even demons acknowledge God as evidenced by the following:
“As Jesus was climbing out of the boat, a man who was possessed by demons came out to meet him. For a long time he had been homeless and naked, living in a cemetery outside the town. As soon as he saw Jesus, he shrieked and fell down in front of him. Then he screamed, ‘Why are you interfering with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? Please, I beg you, don’t torture me!’ For Jesus had already commanded the evil spirit to come out of him.” Luke 8:27-29 (NLT)
Not only do the demons acknowledge God’s existence, but also His power, because they beg for His mercy:
“The demons kept begging Jesus not to send them into the bottomless pit.” Luke 8:30 (NLT)
So if demons acknowledge God’s existence, why are so many people confused?

One reason is because the Prince of this world has successfully convinced many people that belief in God is incompatible with rational thought and logic.

But is this really the case?

Blind Faith?

One of the favorite stand-by slanders utilized by those who deny the existence of God is the following…

“I don’t accept the truth of ancient texts with blind faith. Our ancestors just made up the idea of God because they couldn’t explain the world.”

The insinuation is that if you accept the existence of God and God’s Word (the Bible), then you must throw all rationality and common sense out the window. Why? Because there’s no evidence any of this stuff is true!

Does that line of irrational thought sound familiar?

It should. I’ve heard it all my life, and this line of reasoning is just plain ignorant of the facts.

Why?

Because it…
Equates faith with a blind unquestioning acceptance
It assumes no evidence of God exists
Both are incorrect assumptions.

Faith is not blind acceptance, and faith is not an irrational embrace of unproven tradition.

Faith is trust. Trust and belief that someone will hold true to their word.

And trust is built on reputation.

For instance, you might trust someone if they have a history of integrity, a track record of reliability, and an impeccable reputation of trustworthiness established over a long period of time. In such a case, it’s reasonable and rational to expect the person’s trustworthiness will continue.

I have faith in Jesus Christ not because my ancestors did, and not because I cling to a false hope… It’s just the opposite!

I have faith in Jesus Christ because I trust God. I trust Him to keep His Word.

Here’s what God had to say hundreds of years before Jesus Christ came into this world…
“I will raise up a prophet like you from among their fellow Israelites. I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell the people everything I command him.” Deuteronomy 18:18 (NLT)
God promised a prophet from among the Israelites. He promised to put His own words in that prophet’s mouth.

Then when God sent His prophet, He and His servant John testified on His behalf…
“Then John testified, ‘I saw the Holy Spirit descending like a dove from heaven and resting upon him. I didn’t know he was the one, but when God sent me to baptize with water, he told me, ‘The one on whom you see the Spirit descend and rest is the one who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.’ I saw this happen to Jesus, so I testify that he is the Chosen One of God.’” John 1:32-34 (NLT)
My well-reasoned, rational reason to have faith in Jesus Christ? …Because God said to trust Him!

And given His track record, I’ll take God’s Word over the words of the world.

Will I fall victim to false hope?

Don’t count on it…
“And anyone who believes in Him will never be disappointed.” 1 Peter 2:6 (NLT)
So why do I trust God’s Word? What makes God so trustworthy? What’s His track record?

And why would anyone accept anything written in the Bible as true? Where’s the evidence?

Once I show you, you won’t equate faith in Jesus Christ with blind acceptance. Instead, you’ll understand that faith in Jesus Christ is nothing more than trust in the Word of God. And God has proven He deserves our trust.

The Evidence of God

One of the common arguments put forth by those who discount God’s existence is the following:

“Okay, if God exists… Where’s the evidence?”

Unfortunately, most believers are unprepared to respond properly. As a result, the self-righteous questioner believes he’s won his argument.

Yet nothing is farther from the truth.

There’s plenty of evidence of God’s existence.

Creation is one. Bible prophecy is another. And both directly testify to people who live today, and there’s no denying the reality of either.

Creation

The very existence of creation is evidence enough of God’s existence.
“The heavens proclaim the glory of God. The skies display his craftsmanship. Day after day they continue to speak; night after night they make him known. They speak without a sound or word; their voice is never heard. Yet their message has gone throughout the earth, and their words to all the world.” Psalm 19:1-4 (NLT)
Creation speaks to every person on a daily basis, literally proclaiming God’s existence to the world. So how can anyone say there’s no evidence of God?

They can’t…
“For ever since the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky. Through everything God made, they can clearly see his invisible qualities – his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse for not knowing God.” Romans 1:20 (NLT)
On its own, creation provides such indisputable evidence of God’s glory that people “have no excuse for not knowing God.”

So, in an effort to explain away God and creation, non-believers evolve various theories as to how creation came into existence… Notice who’s engaged in the creative, ever-evolving storytelling here? Hint, it’s not Bible believers.

So who’s irrational? The man who looks at a snowflake and believes an intelligent designer created it? Or the one who looks at the same snowflake and chalks it up to random chance?

Bible Prophecy

As if creation weren’t enough, God created a written account of His Word and gave it to the world. He challenged mankind to test it and to live by it.

But have non-believers objectively tested God’s Word?

No. If they did, they would be aware of hundreds and hundreds of fulfilled prophecies written in some cases thousands of years prior to their fulfillment. They would realize the statistical improbability of 100&#37; of these prophecies reaching fulfillment, and they would believe in God.

After all, mankind can’t even foretell the direction of tomorrow’s stock market.

Yet God regularly foretells the rise and fall of nations centuries in advance!

And throughout the Old Testament, He points to this unique ability as evidence of His existence:
“I am the Lord; that is my name! I will not give my glory to anyone else, nor share my praise with carved idols. Everything I prophesied has come true, and now I will prophesy again. I will tell you the future before it happens.” Isaiah 42:8-9 (NLT)

“‘Present the case for your idols,’ says the Lord. ‘Let them show what they can do,’ says the King of Israel. ‘Let them try to tell us what happened long ago so that we may consider the evidence. Or let them tell us what the future holds, so we can know what’s going to happen. Yes, tell us what will occur in the days ahead. Then we will know you are gods.’” Isaiah 41:21-23 (NLT)

“This is what the Lord says – Israel’s King and Redeemer, the Lord of Heaven’s Armies: ‘I am the First and the Last; there is no other God. Who is like me? Let him step forward and prove to you his power. Let him do as I have done since ancient times when I established a people and explained its future.’” Isaiah 44:6-7 (NLT)
So, how does God’s promise stand the test of time?

It stands up perfectly. Hundreds of prophecies fulfilled, one-hundred percent accuracy.

This article doesn’t contain enough room to address every one of prophecies. But there’s one that’s undeniable to the modern day non-believer…

The birth of Israel as a nation.

Israel

Non-believers can dismiss the messianic prophecies as unfulfilled by claiming the Gospels were written by the followers of Jesus and that Medieval historians revised history.

But you can’t make the claim of historical revisionism when a prophecy is fulfilled in your own day.

And God’s Word was fulfilled in plain sight, for all the world to see, in May 1948. That’s when Israel became a nation for the first time in almost 2,000 years.

2,600 years ago, the prophet Isaiah spoke on behalf of God, who promised to gather Israel’s children from the four corners of the earth and bring them back to the land He promised them:
“‘Do not be afraid, for I am with you. I will gather you and your children from east and west and from north and south. I will bring my sons and daughters back to Israel from the distant corners of the earth. All who claim me as their God will come, for I have made them for my glory. It was I who created them.” Isaiah 43:5-7 (NLT)
God also promised through the prophet Jeremiah to bring the people of Israel out of exile and back into their land:
“‘But the time is coming,’ says the Lord, ‘when people who are taking an oath will no longer say, ‘As surely as the Lord lives, who rescued the people of Israel from the land of Egypt.’ Instead, they will say, ‘As surely as the Lord lives, who brought the people of Israel back to their own land from the land of the north and from all the countries to which he had exiled them.’ For I will bring them back to this land that I gave their ancestors.” Jeremiah 16:14-15 (NLT)
And, as if that weren’t enough, God reiterated His intentions through the prophet Ezekiel:
“Therefore, give the exiles this message from the Sovereign Lord: Although I have scattered you in the countries of the world, I will be a sanctuary to you during your time in exile. I, the Sovereign Lord, will gather you back from the nations where you were scattered, and I will give you the land of Israel once again.” Ezekiel 11:16-17 (NLT)
The promise to restore Israel as a nation isn’t made just once, twice, or even three times in the Bible, but numerous times. Space constraints simply don’t allow for an exhaustive look at all of God’s prophecies concerning Israel.

Nevertheless, it’s clear that long before the Jewish people ended an almost 2,000 year exile from the land of Israel, God promised their return.

These promises weren’t “made up” by mere men… How could they be? Who but God could have foreseen the Jewish exile and subsequent regathering? What other nation of people in the history of the world faced a forced exile yet retained all the elements of their cultural, religious, and social heritage?

The modern day nation of Israel is bombshell testimony of God’s existence…
“Above all, you must realize that no prophecy in Scripture ever came from the prophet’s own understanding, or from human initiative. No, those prophets were moved by the Holy Spirit, and they spoke from God.” 2 Peter 1:20-21 (NLT)
Which opens the door to even more evidence…

The Holy Spirit

Aside from creation and fulfilled bible prophecy, the Holy Spirit offers further evidence of God’s existence. Those who believe and trust in Jesus Christ can testify to the existence of the Holy Spirit, which gives regular testimony of God’s existence.

As Jesus promised:
“But I will send you the Advocate – the Spirit of truth. He will come to you from the Father and will testify all about me. And you must also testify about me because you have been with me from the beginning of my ministry.” John 15:26-27 (NLT)

“But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you. And you will be my witnesses, telling people about me everywhere – in Jerusalem, throughout Judea, in Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.” Acts 1:8 (NLT)
As Paul points out, the Holy Spirit transforms a person. So those people are a testimony of Christ’s existence:
“This means that anyone who belongs to Christ has become a new person. The old life is gone; a new life has begun!” 2 Corinthians 5:17 (NLT)
Unfortunately, evidence of the Holy Spirit is hidden from the non-believer:
“But it was to us that God revealed these things by his Spirit. For his Spirit searches out everything and shows us God’s deep secrets. No one can know a person’s thoughts except that person’s own spirit, and no one can know God’s thoughts except God’s own Spirit. And we have received God’s Spirit (not the world’s spirit), so we can know the wonderful things God has freely given us. When we tell you these things, we do not use words that come from human wisdom. Instead, we speak words given to us by the Spirit, using the Spirit’s words to explain spiritual truths. But people who aren’t spiritual can’t receive these truths from God’s Spirit. It all sounds foolish to them and they can’t understand it, for only those who are spiritual can understand what the Spirit means. Those who are spiritual can evaluate all things, but they themselves cannot be evaluated by others. For, ‘Who can know the Lord’s thoughts? Who knows enough to teach him?’ But we understand these things, for we have the mind of Christ.” 1 Corinthians 2:10-16 (NLT)
Believers in Christ can understand these things, because they “have the mind of Christ.” But in the eyes of non-believers, the Holy Spirit and God’s existence sounds foolish.

Why Won’t God “Show” Himself?

Another typical argument put forward by the non-believing public is this one… “If God exists, where is He? Why won’t God show Himself?”

This shows ignorance on two fronts…

First, God shows Himself every day through the Holy Spirit to countless believers. But since non-believers themselves cannot experience the fruits of the Holy Spirit, they make an assumption that it does not exist.

Second, it ignores creation, bible prophecy, and the historical background of God “showing Himself” to mankind.

After all, God used to regularly show Himself to mankind. Unfortunately, the non-believers of the Old Testament era got upset and asked God to no longer reveal Himself in the same way…
“And they said to Moses, ‘You speak to us, and we will listen. But don’t let God speak directly to us, or we will die!’” Exodus 20:19 (NLT)
Why did they make this request? Because God scared them! He spoke with thunderous authority, and He made demands of mankind that mankind did not want to adhere to…

So what did God do?

Gentleman that He is, He honored their request. God promised to no longer speak in thunderous tones from a mountain top. Instead, He promised to send a prophet to speak on His behalf…
“Moses continued, ‘The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your fellow Israelites. You must listen to him. For this is what you yourselves requested of the Lord your God when you were assembled at Mount Sinai. You said, ‘Don’t let us hear the voice of the Lord our God anymore or see this blazing fire, for we will die.’ Then the Lord said to me, ‘What they have said is right. I will raise up a prophet like you from among their fellow Israelites. I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell the people everything I command him. I will personally deal with anyone who will not listen to the messages the prophet proclaims on my behalf.’” Deuteronomy 18:15-19 (NLT)
The prophet God sent is Jesus Christ. He is the physical and human manifestation of God Almighty Himself… the very thing the non-believers demand! Yet, in spite of His coming and fulfillment of the Messianic prophecies, non-believers continue to insist, “God does not exist…”

They continue to proclaim… “There’s no evidence.”

They continue to demand… “Why doesn’t God show Himself?”

Yet, God did and does show Himself. His name is Jesus Christ.

Conclusion

While the non-believers of this world continue to insist a belief in God is utter foolishness, the exclusive domain of irrational intellectual Neanderthals who embrace fairy tales… God has something else in mind.

It turns out the joke is on the intellectually arrogant. For in the eyes of God, the wisdom of this world is nothing more than mere foolishness:
“For the wisdom of this world is foolishness to God. As the Scriptures say, ‘He traps the wise in the snare of their own cleverness.’ And again, ‘The Lord knows the thoughts of the wise; he knows they are worthless.’” 1 Corinthians 3:19-20 (NLT)
God exists. Evidence abounds.

And God will soon show Himself to the world through the Glorious Appearing of His Son, Jesus Christ…


:elvis:

[ELVIS]

Give that a read, if you don't mind...

[Seshmeister]

Childish circular arguments.

[Jesus Christ]

God doesn't want people to understand the Bible? That's a new one!


Verily, Matthew. :jesuslol:

[Dolemite!]

I think what Smelvis was trying to get at is related to the verse that says

He that is unjust, let him be unjust still ... and so on.

I don't think that means God doesn't want them to believe but that people in the endtimes have already come to believe what they will and will remain so till the end.

[FORD]

If I wanted a pedophile's interpretation of the scriptures, I'd go to a catholic church.

[Dolemite!]

You'd go to a catholic church but you're too busy masturbating to 14 year old girl pics, closet pedo.

[bueno bob]

Britt's arguments aren't applicable.

You can't argue the accuracy of the bible with quotes from itself.

I could write a book stating that Ross Perot and Princess Diana were secret lovers for years, state that it's non-fiction and then use quotes from my own book to prove it, but would anybody consider that factual ESPECIALLY when all available evidence outside of my book contradicts it?

Fuck no.

Trust me, had science and technology been at the levels they are today four thousand years ago, every global and local religion would be a MUCH different beast than what it currently is...if global and local religions existed at all.

[Seshmeister]

Exactly.

It's amazing these people get away with it.

He builds it up like he has an answer for each of the points and then completely fails to on each one.

It's hard to know where to start there are so many holes in his 'arguments' but a funny one is.





So who’s irrational? The man who looks at a snowflake and believes an intelligent designer created it? Or the one who looks at the same snowflake and chalks it up to random chance?




That's just fucking crazy. I would be irrational because I know that snowflakes are crystals and no two snowflakes are alike due to the roughly 1 000 000 000 000 000 000 water molecules which make up a snowflake, which grow at different rates and in different patterns depending on the changing temperature and humidity within the atmosphere that the snowflake falls through on its way to the ground.

He thinks that the rational explanation is that there is an invisible god that sits there creating them one by one uniquely.

He then builds his whole argument that there is a christian god based on that and bible prophecies coming true.

That's pretty fucking out there.

I think many many christians would accept there are many ways to interpret prophecies in the bible which can be as vague as your average newspaper hack astrologer.

Plus its obvious that the prophecies have been manipulated by the writers so that eg we suddenly get a fictitious Roman census as a plot device to get Jesus to Bethlehem to try and make the messiah prophecies seem true.

If this guy counts as 'sharp' I'd hate to see the dumb ones...


Cheers

:gulp:

[Dolemite!]

The pyramids alone are testament to the fact that not only were they techologically advanced 4000 years ago, but probably more so. You'll also find records speaking of nuclear armageddons in many parts of the world. Some day the true nature of the past civilizations will be fully revealed and show present society to be the quarter pound burger eating, tv watching waste of space it is.

[Dolemite!]

we suddenly get a fictitious Roman census

I've heard a lot of conspiracy theories in my time...

[Seshmeister]

I think your problem is a very basic lack of education. Noone has ever taught you how to distinguish between fact, opinion, theory or fiction. You're just completely lost.

Try and do a night class or something or read a book on empiricism instead of wasting your time with the latest stupid nonsense dreamt up by some idiot.

[Seshmeister]

The pyramids alone are testament to the fact that not only were they techologically advanced 4000 years ago, but probably more so. You'll also find records speaking of nuclear armageddons in many parts of the world. Some day the true nature of the past civilizations will be fully revealed and show present society to be the quarter pound burger eating, tv watching waste of space it is.

Total bullshit again.

[Dolemite!]

I think your problem is a very basic lack of education. Noone has ever taught you how to distinguish between fact, opinion, theory or fiction. You're just completely lost.

Try and do a night class or something or read a book on empiricism instead of wasting your time with the latest stupid nonsense dreamt up by some idiot.


Again claims of being factual without ever feeling the need to look at facts.

But thanks for dreaming up your ideas on how the bible was written. You just know that ofcourse it's fiction despite a whole lot of things over the years being verified by archeologists.

[Seshmeister]

There is no record of a census at that time despite there being dozens of detailed contemporary records from that time. Incidentally there is also no record of a slaughter of the innocents which is unthinkable and Herod had been dead for 7 years anyway.

In any case no census particularly a Roman one would involve completely disrupting a province by making everyone go to where their great great great grandparents were born.

The bible is myth not fiction, there are obviously some factual truths in it but not a huge amount. Also some archeological evidence is flawed because it is circular. Most biblical archeologists are believers so when they find a settlement in a place at a time then they give it the name that a place had in the bible.

The key stuff is still all over the place. For example there is no decent evidence for the exodus and where they supposedly went after their time in the wilderness was actually under Egyptian control back then.

[Dolemite!]

There are a lot of things that were thrown into question but corroborated beginning in the last century. There's probably enough to verify that many historical events are real. We'll probably see more, but this is more Elvis' area of interest...

Now, here's the Bullshit Broadcasting Corporations idea of how the pyramids were built.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_X93w7bCMCS8/SKPdKYJ2yvI/AAAAAAAAAGg/skaKjfvz_fI/s400/pyramid+build+3.jpg Amazing... the bullshit in acceptance...

There are many gullible people who are uneducated, but the most fascinating phenomenon is that of educated people who can still fall for pseudo beliefs and popular ideas.

[FORD]

Isn't it time for the pederast to get banned again?

[Dolemite!]

Ford the great moralist.

[FORD]

Ford the great moralist.

Never claimed to be one. But there are some areas where I definitely draw the line.

Fucking children, or tolerating those who do, is one of them.

Or as JC put it, it's better that you have a millstone hung around your neck and be drowned in the sea.

[Dolemite!]

But you act like one. Libs are on a moral crusade to rescue the planet, save women in Afghanistan, condemn vociferously those who don't subscribe to their ideas of morality. You're a product of a British imperial mindset.

Funny how you tolerate Keith Moon and not said a word about him screwing children as you put it.

[FORD]

Keith Moon has been dead for 30 years. Hardly worth worrying about now. If what you say is true, then he's playing drums in Hell, but I figured he was already there anyway. Satan has already said as much.

As far as the "British Imperial Mindset" goes, your country was much more recently a colony than mine, so it looks like you're projecting again.

[Dolemite!]

Hardly an excuse. Dead he may be but I'd like to see the same level of condemnation, not this Obama good/Bush bad way of looking at things.

My country is hardly in a position to go moral crusading. Listening to you or Obama, and the way you follow people around shouting down their every sentence, makes you like most of your type, a lib moralist police, giving out a list of do's and dont's of conduct. I mean, I believe you're an asshole who along with others does bear responsiblity for the blood of innocent people in the Islamic world, but I don't go berating anyone endlessly for it.

[ELVIS]

Total bullshit again.

I agree with that...

And I agree snowflakes are random, but crystals of any kind are designed by the creator, just as you and I are...

[Guitar Shark]

There you have it. God created crystal meth.

[FORD]

:lmao:

[Blackflag]

Never claimed to be one. But there are some areas where I definitely draw the line.

Fucking children, or tolerating those who do, is one of them.

You accuse people of being pedophiles routinely, like you're obsessed with it.

Where there's smoke, there's fire.

[FORD]

You accuse people of being pedophiles routinely, like you're obsessed with it.

Where there's smoke, there's fire.

Not so fast there, Mario Van Pibbles.....

whom have I ever accused of being a pedophile, other than the admitted pedophile Andy Dolemite Taylor. And catholic priests who were found guilty of the same.

[Blackflag]

Dude, you've called me a pedophile before. And that's not an insult you casually throw around, like when I call you a penis.

You're seriously under suspicion. :headlights:

[FORD]

Put up or shut up, asshole.

[ELVIS]

:lmao:

Keep laughing...fool...

[FORD]

Keep laughing...fool...


But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. - Jesus Christ, Matthew 5:22

Have a nice time in Hell! :biggrin:

[Blackflag]

Put up or shut up, asshole.

:dickhead:

I'm definitely an asshole, but at least I'm not under suspicion.


But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. - Jesus Christ, Matthew 5:22

Have a nice time in Hell! :biggrin:

Tell us what happens to pedophiles, Ford. I'm sure you've researched it.

[standin]

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:biggrin:

[Dolemite!]

The more repressed they are the more they become more obsessed with the thing they try to repress. :) I guarantee you, these conversations here will have sparked something off in Ford's brain, that a few years down the line... let's call it the catholic priest syndrome.

[standin]

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:lmao:

[Dolemite!]

Not so fast there, Mario Van Pibbles.....

whom have I ever accused of being a pedophile, other than the admitted pedophile Andy Dolemite Taylor. And catholic priests who were found guilty of the same.

And I am not an admitted anything, shithead. I don't have an interest in pre-pubescent girls which is what the definition of pedophilia is. Go play a Macauley Culkin movie, projection boy.

[FORD]

And I am not an admitted anything, shithead. I don't have an interest in pre-pubescent girls which is what the definition of pedophilia is. Go play a Macauley Culkin movie, projection boy.

I believe you admitted teenage BOYS were your thing previously. So yeah, you probably are telling the truth about not being into preteen girls.

[Dolemite!]

I believe you admitted teenage BOYS were your thing previously.

:lol: You really are projecting.

[FORD]

:lol: You really are projecting.

Nice try Andrea. You don't get to throw your confessed sins on to me. Everybody around here knows better.

[Dolemite!]

Nice try Andrea. You don't get to throw your confessed sins on to me. Everybody around here knows better.

Goofed didn't you, you meant to use your JC nick there.

So now you think you have the right to attribute things to me that I didn't say. Two can play at that game...

[FORD]

So now you think you have the right to attribute things to me that I didn't say. Two can play at that game...

Then you and Pibbles can play it. Oh wait..... you already are.

[standin]

And I am not an admitted anything, shithead. I don't have an interest in pre-pubescent girls which is what the definition of pedophilia is. Go play a Macauley Culkin movie, projection boy.

The term pedophilia (or paedophilia) has a range of definitions as found in psychiatry, psychology, law enforcement, and the vernacular. As a medical diagnosis, it is defined as a psychological disorder in which an adult experiences a sexual preference for prepubescent children.[1][2][3] According to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM), pedophilia is specified as a form of paraphilia in which a person either has acted on intense sexual urges towards children, or experiences recurrent sexual urges towards and fantasies about children that cause distress or interpersonal difficulty.[4] The disorder is common among people who commit child sexual abuse;[5][6][7] however, some offenders do not meet the clinical diagnosis standards for pedophilia.[8] In strictly behavioral contexts, the word "pedophilia" has been used to refer to child sexual abuse itself, also called "pedophilic behavior".[6][9][10][11][12]

In law enforcement, the term "pedophile" is generally used to describe those accused or convicted of the sexual abuse of a minor (including both prepubescent children and adolescent minors younger than the local age of consent).[13] An example of this use can be seen in various forensic training manuals. Some researchers have described this usage as improper and suggested it can confound two separate types of offenders.[13] In common usage, the term refers to any adult who is sexually attracted to children or who sexually abuses a child.[12][14]

Pedophilia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia)

[Dolemite!]

Then you and Pibbles can play it. Oh wait..... you already are.

I must say I'm personally abhorred at your liking for digging out fresh turds from Jack Osbourne's ass to munch on when he was 15.

[standin]

Psychopathology and personality traits
Cohen et al. (2002), studying child sex offenders, states that pedophiles have impaired interpersonal functioning and elevated passive-aggressiveness, as well as impaired self-concept. Regarding disinhibitory traits, pedophiles demonstrate elevated sociopathy and propensity for cognitive distortions. According to the authors, pathologic personality traits in pedophiles lend support to a hypothesis that such pathology is related to both motivation for and failure to inhibit pedophilic behavior.[46]

According to Wilson and Cox (1983), "The paedophiles emerge as significantly higher on Psychoticism, Introversion and Neurotocism than age-matched controls. [But] there is a difficulty in untangling cause and effect. We cannot tell whether paedophiles gravitate towards children because, being highly introverted, they find the company of children less threatening than that of adults, or whether the social withdrawal implied by their introversion is a result of the isloation engendered by their preference (i.e., awareness of the social approbation and hostility that it evokes" (p. 324).[47]

Studying child sex offenders, a review of qualitative research studies published between 1982 and 2001 concluded that pedophiles use cognitive distortions to meet personal needs, justifying abuse by making excuses, redefining their actions as love and mutuality, and exploiting the power imbalance inherent in all adult-child relationships.[48] Other cognitive distortions include the idea of "children as sexual beings," "uncontrollability of sexuality," and "sexual entitlement-bias."[49]

Pedophilia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia)

[Dolemite!]

Basket Case - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basket_Case)

A mental disorder or mental illness is a psychological or behavioral pattern that occurs in an individual and is thought to cause distress or disability that is not expected as part of normal development or culture. The recognition and understanding of mental disorders has changed over time and across cultures. Definitions, assessments, and classifications of mental disorders can vary, but guideline criteria listed in the ICD, DSM and other manuals are widely accepted by mental health professionals. Categories of diagnoses in these schemes may include dissociative disorders, mood disorders, anxiety disorders, psychotic disorders, eating disorders, developmental disorders, personality disorders, ambulatory disorders and many other categories.

[FORD]

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[katie]

Do you pray Mike, sorry FORD?

Katie for MOD!

[ELVIS]

Have a nice time in Hell! :biggrin:

You know i'm kindy playing around when I say something like that...

I've never said anything flat out to hurt you or anything like that...

I hope you're sharp enough to figure that out...I think you are...


:)

[Seshmeister]

Still you seemed to have come out your Sabbath with all guns blazin'.

Bit of a firebrand this week? :)

[FORD]

Do you pray, FORD?



Yeah, JC and I go way back.

[Nickdfresh]

But you act like one. Libs are on a moral crusade to rescue the planet, save women in Afghanistan, condemn vociferously those who don't subscribe to their ideas of morality. You're a product of a British imperial mindset.
...

We didn't go into Afghanistan to "save (the) women."

We went into Afghanistan because it was the origin of airliners fucking flying into our skyscrapers...

[Blackflag]

We went into Afghanistan because it was the origin of airliners fucking flying into our skyscrapers...

I thought they were all Saudis.

[FORD]

We went into Afghanistan because it was the origin of airliners fucking flying into our skyscrapers...

Bullshit.

[Seshmeister]

And trained in Florida.

A big justification all the time about this Afghanistan war is always about stopping training camps.

I have no idea why terrorists can only be successful if they get to crawl under nets and climb over assault courses first?

[Nickdfresh]

I thought they were all Saudis.

Who were trained in Afghanistan...

[Nickdfresh]

Bullshit.

Right, I forgot it was for some bullshit pipeline that hasn't been built and probably never will be...

[Nickdfresh]

And trained in Florida.

A big justification all the time about this Afghanistan war is always about stopping training camps.

I have no idea why terrorists can only be successful if they get to crawl under nets and climb over assault courses first?

They certainly can be self-trained. But it helps when you have a state that essentially lets a segment of foreign born militants do whatever the fuck they want...

[thome]

We went into Afghanistan because it was the origin of airliners fucking flying into our skyscrapers...


I thought the planes originated out of Boston and D.C...?

Thus -The Front- has always been right, America did it. Concpiracy confirmed.

The perpetrators and thier organizations are just users of the planes and the airstrips and the biuldings destroyed.

Kinda like how bullets kill people, not the gun.

[Blackflag]

Who were trained in Afghanistan...

I'm pretty sure they were trained to fly in the U.S. Did they learn kung fu in Afghanistan?

[FORD]

Sesh is correct. They were trained in Florida. While Jeb Bush was governor. By CIA agents Rudi Dekkers & Wally Hilliard. At a flight school known for making CIA drug runs to South America.

[thome]

If I hang outside the terminal you think I could score some real peruvian flake..?

I mean your cool right..?

You wouldn't lie to me or tell me a story you haven't witnessed in the first person..?

[Nickdfresh]

I'm pretty sure they were trained to fly in the U.S. Did they learn kung fu in Afghanistan?

Well, they didn't just arbitrarily decide to enroll in flight schools and suddenly decide to fuck around with Jihad after...

Almost all operatives have to be trained in a cohesive, long term plot. I'd say that nearly every notable terrorist operation has involved intricate training and vetting of the main conspirators. Otherwise you have a bunch of unstable assholes like Moussaui and Richard (Dick) Reid, the fail 'shoebomber' that are mental defects and incompetent...

[Nickdfresh]

Sesh is correct. They were trained in Florida.

Trained for what?

They were no more "trained in Florida" to fly planes into the Twin Towers than PIRA terrorists were "trained in Belfast" to set off intricate carbombs in London...


While Jeb Bush was governor. By CIA agents Rudi Dekkers & Wally Hilliard. At a flight school known for making CIA drug runs to South America.

Oh boy, the silly associations without any real evidence other than interweb cut and pastes...

[thome]

Beside is there a single aiplane/beach in florida that doesn't test possitive for coke..?

You all still won't believe me when I say Whitewater was the landingstrip the Clintons thier kickback, and most of America got all Colombian from.

Ah but that is all lost in -The Front-.

Talk about a wasted presidential legacy Clinton is a total bust.

[Nickdfresh]

Beside is there a single aiplane/beach in florida that doesn't test possitive for coke..?

You all still won't believe me when I say Whitewater was the landingstrip the Clintons thier kickback, and most of America got all Colombian from.

Ah but that is all lost in -The Front-.

Talk about a wasted presidential legacy Clinton is a total bust.

STFU, waster...

[thome]

STFU, waster...

Yah! like your posts are mandatory learning...lol.

[Blackflag]

Well, they didn't just arbitrarily decide to enroll in flight schools and suddenly decide to fuck around with Jihad after...

So they were trained on how to enroll in a flight school? I think every high school counselor in the country could have done that nefarious deed.

[Nickdfresh]

So they were trained on how to enroll in a flight school? I think every high school counselor in the country could have done that nefarious deed.


Are you this dumb? Really?

They were trained as a cohesive terror cell in Afghanistan, then attended school in Germany, and then the United States. It wasn't as simple as a couple of angry assholes going to a flight school to fly planes on simulators. It was a brilliantly simple plan, but one that took extensive preparation and long term commitment by educated and competent terror cell leaders...

[thome]

Are you this dumb? Really?

They were trained as a cohesive terror cell in Afghanistan, then attended school in Germany, and then the United States. It wasn't as simple as a couple of angry assholes going to a flight school to fly planes on simulators. It was a brilliantly simple plan, but one that took extensive preparation and long term commitment by educated and competent terror cell leaders...

Bullsh!t!

A monkey could do it on a dime.

[Nickdfresh]

Bullsh!t!

A monkey could do it on a dime.

Then why haven't you?

[Blackflag]

It wasn't as simple as a couple of angry assholes going to a flight school ...

And it wasn't as complicated as saying that but for special training camps in Afghanistan, it wouldn't have happened. Afghanistan and the Taliban were irrelevant.

[Nickdfresh]

And it wasn't as complicated as saying that but for special training camps in Afghanistan, it wouldn't have happened. Afghanistan and the Taliban were irrelevant.

Yet everything was planned from that area (to an extent)...

[thome]

Then why haven't you?


It would be real simple, still.

The only thing that may be different is now the passengers may stand up and take a box cutter slash for America.

When this happend; 911.. we were in the trained (highjacking) idea that siting and wait for thier demands was the quo.

Now, I don't know, but turning a absolutely user friendly engineered airplane could be done by a monkey.

A:LIENS BUILT THE PYRA<MIDS!!!


No Mother Fukker a simple man did it, one stone at a time, like simple men do every fukking day.

Complicated Conspiracy My ASS!

[Blackflag]

Yet everything was planned from that area (to an extent)...

Everything has to be done somewhere. So what? There's no particular connection to Afghanistan.

Second, I'm not aware of any evidence that proves the 9/11 attack was planned in Afghanistan.

[Nickdfresh]

Everything has to be done somewhere. So what? There's no particular connection to Afghanistan.

You're out of your fucking mind. Bin Laden, and more importantly, Khalid Sheik Mohammad, resided there. So did Atta and the other designated commanders of the 9/11 atrocities...

If you want to find reasons why we should not be in Afghanistan, then fine. But try not to sound as nihilist lunatic as Ford, Elvis, and the other conspiracy shits here...


Second, I'm not aware of any evidence that proves the 9/11 attack was planned in Afghanistan.

Then you're unaware, and I am not responsible for the lapses in your education and prior knowledge...

[Blackflag]

You're out of your fucking mind. Bin Laden, and more importantly, Khalid Sheik Mohammad, resided there. So did Atta and the other designated commanders of the 9/11 atrocities...

And now he's in Pakistan. Now is Pakistan to blame? He used to plan from Saudi Arabia. Why aren't they to blame, too?



If you want to find reasons why we should not be in Afghanistan, then fine. But try not to sound as nihilist lunatic as Ford, Elvis, and the other conspiracy shits here...

No hitting below the belt.





Then you're unaware, and I am not responsible for the lapses in your education and prior knowledge...

I think that proof was right next to the proof of wmd's in Iraq.

[FORD]

There were two reasons for the BCE to go to Afghanistan, and neither of them had a damn thing to do with the fact that Osama was the BCE/CIA's go-to guy there back in the 80's.

1) Afghanistan's #1 cash crop (which happens to share a name with George Bush Sr.) was nearly wiped out by the Taliban, being the religious extremist dickwipes that they are.

2) The very same religious extremist dickwipe Taliban signed a deal with UNOCAL and other Texas based energy companies (i.e. friends and business partners of the BCE) in 1997 to build a pipeline across Afghanistan for the transport of oil and natural gas from the Caspian Sea basin. As of 2001 they were still making excuses for not beginning the project. In April of 2001, a BCE representative met with the Taliban, armed with a briefcase full of money, and told them "Either you accept our carpet of gold, or we will bury you under a carpet of bombs". The day before Chimpy began his month long vacation in August 2001, the plans to invade Afghanistan were on his desk in the Oval Office. And this was before the infamous (and BCE ignored) 8/6/01 "Bin Laden Determined to Strike the US" briefing, let alone over a full month before Operation Reichstag II itself.

[FORD]

There were two reasons for the BCE to go to Afghanistan, and neither of them had a damn thing to do with the fact that Osama was the BCE/CIA's go-to guy there back in the 80's.

1) Afghanistan's #1 cash crop (which happens to share a name with George Bush Sr.) was nearly wiped out by the Taliban, being the religious extremist dickwipes that they are.

2) The very same religious extremist dickwipe Taliban signed a deal with UNOCAL and other Texas based energy companies (i.e. friends and business partners of the BCE) in 1997 to build a pipeline across Afghanistan for the transport of oil and natural gas from the Caspian Sea basin. As of 2001 they were still making excuses for not beginning the project. In April of 2001, a BCE representative met with the Taliban, armed with a briefcase full of money, and told them "Either you accept our carpet of gold, or we will bury you under a carpet of bombs". The day before Chimpy began his month long vacation in August 2001, the plans to invade Afghanistan were on his desk in the Oval Office. And this was before the infamous (and BCE ignored) 8/6/01 "Bin Laden Determined to Strike the US" briefing, let alone over a full month before Operation Reichstag II itself.

[Blackflag]

Say it again, brother.

[FORD]

I think I did.

Fucking server hiccups :biggrin:

[ELVIS]

Still you seemed to have come out your Sabbath with all guns blazin'.

Bit of a firebrand this week? :)

Sure, I admit that...and I believe it...

[katie]

There were two reasons for the BCE to go to Afghanistan, and neither of them had a damn thing to do with the fact that Osama was the BCE/CIA's go-to guy there back in the 80's.

1) Afghanistan's #1 cash crop (which happens to share a name with George Bush Sr.) was nearly wiped out by the Taliban, being the religious extremist dickwipes that they are.

2) The very same religious extremist dickwipe Taliban signed a deal with UNOCAL and other Texas based energy companies (i.e. friends and business partners of the BCE) in 1997 to build a pipeline across Afghanistan for the transport of oil and natural gas from the Caspian Sea basin. As of 2001 they were still making excuses for not beginning the project. In April of 2001, a BCE representative met with the Taliban, armed with a briefcase full of money, and told them "Either you accept our carpet of gold, or we will bury you under a carpet of bombs". The day before Chimpy began his month long vacation in August 2001, the plans to invade Afghanistan were on his desk in the Oval Office. And this was before the infamous (and BCE ignored) 8/6/01 "Bin Laden Determined to Strike the US" briefing, let alone over a full month before Operation Reichstag II itself.

Is that you or that left wing idiot Mike Malloy talking?

[FORD]

Is that you or that greatest radio talk show host in America, Mike Malloy talking?

It's me, of course. Mike Malloy calls them the Bush Crime Family, not the Bush Criminal Empire.

[katie]

It's me, of course. Mike Malloy calls them the Bush Crime Family, not the Bush Criminal Empire.

Are you a racist FORD?

[ELVIS]

According to you, I suppose so...

But you're clueless...

[katie]

According to you, I suppose so...

But you're clueless...

Stop crying and fight your own battles

[FORD]

Are you a racist FORD?

Fuck No.

[katie]

Are you a racist FORD?


Fuck No.

Well that's good enough for me, You can stay on.


Elvis i'll be needing your badge.....

[Nickdfresh]

And now he's in Pakistan. Now is Pakistan to blame?

To an extent, their intelligence and parts of the military are sympathetic to the Taliban and they seem more interested in controlling other countries' territory than they are their own...

In any case, he and his like minded fanatics are hemmed in there and isolated and make nice targets for Predators and whatnot...

And there is sort of a conspiracy theory that some senior Paki military officers were offed in plane crashes after 9/11, because they might have had foreknowledge if not outright involvement and it needed to be covered up...


He used to plan from Saudi Arabia. Why aren't they to blame, too?

They are - to an extent. Saudi sheiks have given large sums to extremists ever since the Soviet occupation in an effort to marginalize the more moderate factions. But to be fair, the House of Saud did revoke his citizenship and saw him as a (minor) threat to their power and simply looked the other way as he was banished to Somalia. There is speculation that they even tried to have him killed there, but I doubt that. And there is little question that many tied to the Saudi gov't were at least sympathetic at one time...

You're beginning to sound like your hero Micheal Moore there. :)


No hitting below the belt.

Well, I believe my own conspiracy theories, like the one forwarded by the oft skeptical Gerald Posner, that dozens of Saudi sheiks "accidentally" died in the desert of thirst after 9/11...


I think that proof was right next to the proof of wmd's in Iraq.

Then you're in denial along with Ford, but for different reasons...

[Nickdfresh]

There were two reasons for the BCE to go to Afghanistan, and neither of them had a damn thing to do with the fact that Osama was the BCE/CIA's go-to guy there back in the 80's.

1) Afghanistan's #1 cash crop (which happens to share a name with George Bush Sr.) was nearly wiped out by the Taliban, being the religious extremist dickwipes that they are.

Um, not to poke holes in your theory, but the Taliban were very active in the drug trade and only really clamped down for a couple of years to placate the Iranians (after they got very, very rich off it), who very nearly invaded them largely over the instability their drugs cause via the trades routes through Iran.

I think they were also ratcheting up demand, and could easily have allowed production to increase in the then near future...


2) The very same religious extremist dickwipe Taliban signed a deal with UNOCAL and other Texas based energy companies (i.e. friends and business partners of the BCE) in 1997 to build a pipeline across Afghanistan for the transport of oil and natural gas from the Caspian Sea basin. As of 2001 they were still making excuses for not beginning the project. In April of 2001, a BCE representative met with the Taliban, armed with a briefcase full of money, and told them "Either you accept our carpet of gold, or we will bury you under a carpet of bombs". The day before Chimpy began his month long vacation in August 2001, the plans to invade Afghanistan were on his desk in the Oval Office. And this was before the infamous (and BCE ignored) 8/6/01 "Bin Laden Determined to Strike the US" briefing, let alone over a full month before Operation Reichstag II itself.

All hearsay with absolutely no proof - except the last part in which the "BCE" certainly couldn't have worked harder (irony) to ignore terrorism. But try reading something on the subject with some cred., like Richard Clarke's book (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Against_All_Enemies) where he avoids the speculative conspiracy crap, says that Bin Laden was indeed a threat, but that Bush was either too incompetent and his cronies were too worried about China and Iraq (Rumsfled) to notice...

[katie]

Um, not to poke holes in your theory, but the Taliban were very active in the drug trade and only really clamped down for a couple of years to placate the Iranians (after they got very, very rich off it), who very nearly invaded them largely over the instability their drugs cause via the trades routes through Iran.

I think they were also ratcheting up demand, and could easily have allowed production to increase in the then near future...



All hearsay with absolutely no proof - except the last part in which the "BCE" certainly couldn't have worked harder (irony) to ignore terrorism. But try reading something on the subject with some cred., like Richard Clarke's book (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Against_All_Enemies) where he avoids the speculative conspiracy crap, says that Bin Laden was indeed a threat, but that Bush was either too incompetent and his cronies were too worried about China and Iraq (Rumsfled) to notice...

Hmmm.... you might want to back that up with some credible links.

[Guitar Shark]

Nick I admire your effort but it's wasted. FORD is who he is.

[Nickdfresh]

Hmmm.... you might want to back that up with some credible links.

Try clicking on the underlined blue words, fail...(the internet can't be that tough!)

[Nickdfresh]

Nick I admire your effort but it's wasted. FORD is who he is.

I think he exaggerates as shtick...

[jhale667]

Try clicking on the underlined blue words, fail...(the internet can't be that tough!)

:lmao: She's kinda thick, huh? :biggrin: Not just her thighs, either...

[Guitar Shark]

I think he exaggerates as shtick...

Sometimes, yes. But not about the "BCE". He believes everything he writes.

[Nickdfresh]

sometimes, yes. But not about the "bce". He believes everything he writes.


:019:

[katie]

Try clicking on the underlined blue words, fail...(the internet can't be that tough!)

I said credible links,

Not that quick cut n paste shite you always give us.;)



:lmao: She's kinda thick, huh? :biggrin: Not just her thighs, either...

Try to keep up sparky:)
x

[Blackflag]

You're beginning to sound like your hero Micheal Moore there. :)

I'm not, and those were rhetorical questions. Afghanistan and Pakistan aren't to blame, the small group of dickheads are.

And if you invade those countries...you end up a few years down the line saying, 'shit, that didn't work out the way I thought...maybe we should just liberate women in burkas instead.'

Occupying Afghanistan accomplishes nothing with respect to terrorists, and that was clear from day one.




And there is sort of a conspiracy theory that some senior Paki military officers were offed in plane crashes after 9/11, because they might have had foreknowledge if not outright involvement and it needed to be covered up...



Well, I believe my own conspiracy theories, like the one forwarded by the oft skeptical Gerald Posner, that dozens of Saudi sheiks "accidentally" died in the desert of thirst after 9/11...

Oh, shit... now you with the conspiracy theories? Next you'll be talking about the BCE and Area 51.

[Nickdfresh]

I said credible links,

Not that quick cut n paste shite you always give us.;)


It is a "link," funnybunny. You see, I "cut and pasted" nothing in that post.

Don't let your autism stop you!

And it's pretty credible. Yes it's Wiki, I know. But I read the book and can confirm that the article gives a fair summary of his book. In any case, it's beyond you, much like university...


Try to keep up sparky:)
x


I sure will, my little chickadee...now be a good little girl and go back to staring longingly at your Jimi Page poster...

[Nickdfresh]

I'm not, and those were rhetorical questions. Afghanistan and Pakistan aren't to blame, the small group of dickheads are.

And if you invade those countries...you end up a few years down the line saying, 'shit, that didn't work out the way I thought...maybe we should just liberate women in burkas instead.'

Occupying Afghanistan accomplishes nothing with respect to terrorists, and that was clear from day one.

We didn't really "invade" Afghanistan. We merely ratcheted up a pre-existing plan under the Clinton Admin to support the enemies of the Taliban, the Northern Alliance. Things were going swimmingly until the clusterfuck that was the Iraq War was launched, and US forces (such as the US Army, which was very hesitant to go into Afghanistan in 2001) were slowly earmarked for Iraq preventing a consolidation of a victory and giving the Talubs breathing room.

Occupying Afghanistan has disrupted and dislodged al Qaida from a comfortable breathing space...

Now the only hope is to force the better factions to the negotiating table and hammer out a peace...


Oh, shit... now you with the conspiracy theories? Next you'll be talking about the BCE and Area 51.

I'm into fact, and reasonable conjecture. I call them conspiracy theories because they can never, ever be proven...

[ELVIS]

I wonder how many people realize you make that stuff up off of the top of your head...

[Nickdfresh]

I wonder how many people realize you make that stuff up off of the top of your head...

I don't know. Good thing that a backpedaling assclown that believes overnight radio shows filled with bullshit found me out!

[ELVIS]

You need some drugs or something to slow down your manic imagination...

[katie]

I don't know. Good thing that a backpedaling assclown that believes overnight radio shows filled with bullshit found me out!

Do you have a link for this radio station iitem?

[Nickdfresh]

Google "Alex Jones," and you'll find one somewhere...

[katie]

Google "Alex Jones," and you'll find one somewhere...

Computer sez no.

http://keiths-online-sales-uk.com/pics/aled-jones-morning-has-broken-1.jpg

[Nickdfresh]

Computer sez no.

http://keiths-online-sales-uk.com/pics/aled-jones-morning-has-broken-1.jpg

Maybe you should upgrade, then?

http://www.nchealthandhealing.com/elements/media/topic-media/6_3_old_computer.jpg

[katie]

Maybe you should upgrade, then?



http://www.jimwcoleman.com/photoblog/1995%20computer%20geek.jpg

What computer have you got there?

I like your little beard :)

[Nickdfresh]

I don't have a beard, and that is some sort of Mac I think...

Nice touch with the Buffalo Bills moniker on the back though...

[Dolemite!]

I doubt Alex Jones "critics" have ever taken the trouble to investigate anything he or the guests on his program have to say. And he does have respected guests on his program who corroborate what he's saying. Oh well, evil has already been enabled with the election of O'bubba, by all means sleep walk into crisis after crisis.

[Nickdfresh]

I doubt Alex Jones "critics" have ever taken the trouble to investigate anything he or the guests on his program have to say. And he does have respected guests on his program who corroborate what he's saying. Oh well, evil has already been enabled with the election of O'bubba, by all means sleep walk into crisis after crisis.

ZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzz... .

Oh, did you say something cliche?

[Dolemite!]

Cliches are better than pointless rambling are mine are true too.

[Nickdfresh]

Cliches are better than pointless rambling are mine are true too.

LMFAO!! Had to quote this...:hee:

[Dolemite!]

That should have read "and mine". But it's cool that you're so easily amused.