So is he racist?

[Big Train]

Obama Joker artist unmasked: A fellow Chicagoan | Top of the Ticket | Los Angeles Times (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2009/08/obama-joker-artist.html)

When cryptic posters portraying President Obama as the Joker from "Batman" began popping up around Los Angeles and other cities, the question many asked was, Who is behind the image?

Was it an ultra-conservative grassroots group or a disgruntled street artist going against the grain?

Nope, it turns out, just a 20-year-old college student from Chicago.

Bored during his winter school break, Firas Alkhateeb, a senior history major at the University of Illinois, crafted the picture of Obama with the recognizable clown makeup using Adobe's Photoshop software.

Alkhateeb had been tinkering with the program to improve the looks of photos he had taken on his clunky Kodak camera. The Joker project was his grandest undertaking yet. Using a tutorial he'd found online about how to "Jokerize" portraits, he downloaded the October 23 Time Magazine cover of Obama and began digitally painting over it.

Four or five hours later, he happily had his product.

On Jan. 18, Alkhateeb uploaded the image to photo-sharing site Flickr. Over the next two months, he amassed just a couple thousand hits, he said.

Then the counter exploded after a still-anonymous rogue famously found his image, digitally removed the references to Time Magazine, captioned the picture with the word "socialism" and hung printed copies around L.A., making headlines.

Alkhateeb's original Flickr page surpassed 20,000 views. The Times found his Flickr site last week thanks to a tip left by a loyal reader of The Ticket. By Friday, the page had been taken down.

On Alkhateeb's page, a manipulated image condemning fellow Chicagoan and White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel (captioned "epic fail") was mixed in with parodies of the "Guitar Hero" game franchises -- dubbed Quran Hero -- and of Napoleon riding a motorcycle (pictured after the jump).

Flickr had removed the Joker image due to copyright-infringement concerns, Alkhateeb says the company told him in an e-mail. A Flickr spokeswoman declined to comment due to a company policy that bars discussing inquiries about individual users.

Alkhateeb says he wasn't actively trying to cover his tracks, but he did want to lay low. He initially had concerns about ...

... connecting his name with anything critical of the president -- especially living in Chicago, where people are "very, very liberal," he said.

"After Obama was elected, you had all of these people who basically saw him as the second coming of Christ," Alkhateeb said. "From my perspective, there wasn't much substance to him."

"I abstained from voting in November," he wrote in an e-mail. "Living in Illinois, my vote means close to nothing as there was no chance Obama would not win the state." If he had to choose a politician to support, Alkhateeb said, it would be Ohio Democratic Rep. Dennis Kucinich.

Possibly becoming a villain in his home city wasn't his only worry. Time's cover and the Joker obviously aren't Alkhateeb's copyrights to fool around with.

Concerned about a lawsuit, Alkhateeb, an unnamed superstar whose nationally recognized artwork had stunned friends and family, was relieved that the situation had floated for months without any major news organizations discovering that he was the man behind the paint.

After we contacted him, he hesitantly agreed to an interview.

If it's any consolation, the Electronic Frontier Foundation, a nonprofit organization that defends digital rights, says Alkhateeb has a strong fair-use defense if Time or DC Comics decides to take him to court -- that is if one even does file a lawsuit.

"You really want to think twice about going after a political commenter," said Corynne McSherry, a senior staff attorney at the EFF. In Time's case, "a news organization probably doesn't want to be in the situation of pursuing political criticism."

Perhaps the strongest case for anyone, McSherry said, is for Alkhateeb to claim money derived from people selling T-shirts with his picture. Is it worth pursuing? "It would be nice, but it's not that big of a deal," Alkhateeb said.

Although Alkhateeb claims he was making no political statement with the artwork, he's plugged into the Washington debate. Though born in the United States, his Palestinian family closely follows Middle Eastern politics.

"I think he's definitely doing better than Bush was," Alkhateeb said of Obama. Alkhateeb's views on foreign relations align with the Democrats, he said, while he prefers Republican ideals on domestic issues.

Alkhateeb's assessment of Obama: "In terms of domestic policy, I don't think he's really doing much good for the country right now," he said. "We don't have to 'hero worship' the guy."

Someday, Alkhateeb hopes to be a history teacher and high school football coach. He won't be pursuing a full-time career in art, but he'll continue playing with Photoshop on the side. He's honored by Shepard Fairey's assessment of his Joker picture, but disagrees with some of Fairey's comments criticizing the message of the Socialism poster.

"He made a picture of Bush as a vampire," Alkhateeb said about Fairey. "That's kind of speaking with two faces."

Regardless, Alkhateeb does agree with the Obama "Hope" artist about "socialism" being the wrong caption for the Joker image. "It really doesn't make any sense to me at all," he said. "To accuse him of being a socialist is really ... immature. First of all, who said being a socialist is evil?"


-- Mark Milian

[jhale667]

Racist? No.

Douchebag? Probably. :rolleyes:

[Nickdfresh]

Um, WTF are you talking about and what is your point?

[LoungeMachine]

How the FUCK could racism be brought into the discussion of that pic??????

:gulp:

That's a stretch

[FORD]

The irony here is that this guy, who is clearly to the left of Obama, created this poster and then the right wing Freeper jackasses ran with it. (adding the ridiculous "socialism" crap to it. As if anything Obama has done so far was remotely "socialist"?? )

[Guitar Shark]

Were people claiming that the Joker image of Obama was racist? That seems like a stretch.

[Big Train]

Um, WTF are you talking about and what is your point?

Well, let's review a national news story for you. The image this young man created was branded as racist by some liberals and especially the LA Weekly. Now that he has spoken for himself, do you or do you not believe the image to be racist.

[Guitar Shark]

Well, let's review a national news story for you. The image this young man created was branded as racist by some liberals and especially the LA Weekly.

If that is true, I would probably disagree. Link?

[Big Train]

Los Angeles - LA Daily - Obama 'Joker' Poster: It's All About Race (http://blogs.laweekly.com/ladaily/community/obama-poster-all-about-race/)

[Nickdfresh]

Well, let's review a national news story for you. The image this young man created was branded as racist by some liberals and especially the LA Weekly. Now that he has spoken for himself, do you or do you not believe the image to be racist.

Why the fuck would I care about what "some liberals (in) the LA Weekly" think?

I don't know if he's a racist, but since I can't say he's ever burned a cross on his own lawn in order to scare himself out of town, I'll give him the benefit of doubt that he isn't a racist....

BTW, I've never even seen the original image. So I think this thread is emblematic of a lot wrong with things today - people seeking to get their opinions from somewhere because they don't know how to think for themselves. Or creating false debates on nothing arguments...

[Big Train]

Why the fuck does anyone care about what liberals in Buffalo think? It was a big topic in other parts of the country.

So it's not a valid topic of discussion?

I'm merely asking what the others thought of the image and whether they thought the image and/or the artist is racist to them.

If you've never seen the original image or are not remotely aware of the story, you might want to check into it before you start commenting about what is and isn't valid.

[Nickdfresh]

http://blogs.laweekly.com/ladaily/3798440473_03f993f7f4.jpg

Incidently, I actually like the work and think it's more Andy Warhol-ish more than anything...

But of course interweb dolts have appropriated it for their own agenda of fundamental ignorance of basic political and economic philosophy...

[Nickdfresh]

Why the fuck does anyone care about what liberals in Buffalo think?...


Apparently you do. Because you just asked me...


So it's not a valid topic of discussion?

I dunno. I think it's just a useless topic of discussion...


I'm merely asking what the others thought of the image and whether they thought the image and/or the artist is racist to them.

If you've never seen the original image or are not remotely aware of the story, you might want to check into it before you start commenting about what is and isn't valid.

And this all based on a single op-ed from a third-rate periodical?

[jhale667]

I think the fact that the "Socialism" (which is retarded) logo is now people like Schultz and Maddvibe's avatars speaks volumes....just sayin'... :D

[Big Train]

Apparently you do. Because you just asked me...

Exactly, just wanted you to hear how dumb your statement sounded.

I dunno. I think it's just a useless topic of discussion...

So why bother commenting on it?

And this all based on a single op-ed from a third-rate periodical?

No, this op-ed is what started the rest of the furor, thought it would be best to go to the source. Although I agree, the LA Weekly is a rag.

[bueno bob]

Meh. I wasn't worried about it much when I saw it. No real difference between that and the old Bush as Joker poster that made the rounds...or the vampire Bush taking the blood out of the statue of liberty...hardly worth even noticing, honestly.

Well, except for the fact that Bush actually deserved those pictures.

[bueno bob]

In any regards, I'd suggest that Firas Alkhateeb get himself a good book and read up on what a socialist actually is before he paints Obama as one. Makes him look more ignorant to those of us who actually HAVE done our reading.

[Nickdfresh]

He didn't. He painted Obama up on a "Time Magazine" cover. It was the uncreative right wing assclowns that redid his pic with "socialism" scrolled on it...

[bueno bob]

He didn't. He painted Obama up on a "Time Magazine" cover. It was the uncreative right wing assclowns that redid his pic with "socialism" scrolled on it...

Ah.

Well, that explains that. Was it mentioned in the article? I only got a little way through it before I lost interest...lol, maybe I should do my own reading, heheheh...

[Guitar Shark]

Los Angeles - LA Daily - Obama 'Joker' Poster: It's All About Race (http://blogs.laweekly.com/ladaily/community/obama-poster-all-about-race/)

Thanks dude. The link to the original blog post was in there. I think both articles are a bunch of crap. But I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish with this thread. It's not like a bunch of people here have argued that it was a racist image.

[Big Train]

I'm not trying to accomplish anything.

I've always thought it amounted to nothing and not a racist image in and of itself. Was just simply curious what everyone else thought.

Was also curious to see if the artist's political thoughts, which are pretty pro-Obama, changed any opinions.

[sadaist]

BTW, I've never even seen the original image.


If you saw Heath Ledger as the Joker, than you saw the original image.

[Guitar Shark]

I'm not trying to accomplish anything.

I've always thought it amounted to nothing and not a racist image in and of itself. Was just simply curious what everyone else thought.

Was also curious to see if the artist's political thoughts, which are pretty pro-Obama, changed any opinions.

I'm not sure where you are getting the pro-Obama thing. He's pretty critical of Obama in the interview. If he likes Kucinich, I'm assuming he's much further to the left than Obama.

[Blackflag]

As if anything Obama has done so far was remotely "socialist"??

Other than giving $1T+ to private companies, buying GM, and giving $4500 coupons for cars.

[FORD]

The only way I could see this as "racist" would be, if somebody did not get the "joker" context, and saw the original work as somebody trying to paint Obama in "whiteface". As in the old "blackface" makeup of the minstrel shows or Al Jolson movies. Which would imply that Obama was trying to be "white".

But I haven't seen anything that would lead me to believe that was the intent of the original artist, or even the right wing assholes that added the "socialism" crap to it.

[Nickdfresh]

Other than giving $1T+ to private companies,

That started with Bush actually, and you can argue that what both Bush and Obama have done is are temporary effort to save capitalism...


buying GM, and giving $4500 coupons for cars.

They didn't "buy" GM, they took control and are gradually untaking control...

And the $4500 vouchers are little different than any other tax break...

[standin]

How much did America give to Blackwater and Haliburton?

[Seshmeister]

Uhuhuhhu

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee43/Seshmeister/clownhead.gif

[Blackflag]

That started with Bush actually I wasn't expecting to hear that. :umm:




They didn't "buy" GM, they took control and

The government gave the company cash in exchange for majority ownership of the company. How is that not buying it?



are gradually untaking control...

Are they? Tell me what they've done to "untake" control.



And the $4500 vouchers are little different than any other tax break...

You're taxing a number of people, then transferring that money to one person so they can buy their car cheaper. That's not a tax break.

[Nickdfresh]

I wasn't expecting to hear that. :umm:


Sorry to throw out random factoids...


The government gave the company cash in exchange for majority ownership of the company. How is that not buying it?

Nice complete mischaracterization. Yeah, the gov't wanted to get into the car business. GM wasn't for sale, it was on the brink...


Are they? Tell me what they've done to "untake" control.

By speeding GM out of bankruptcy in record time, forcing severe restructuring, and edging GM closer to profitability...


You're taxing a number of people, then transferring that money to one person so they can buy their car cheaper. That's not a tax break.

It's little different than a tax rebate give arbitrarily and in some cases almost regardless of who paid what. It's a targeted market incentive that is in many ways more effective than a tax break at re-infusing cash back into the economy...

[Blackflag]

Nice complete mischaracterization. Yeah, the gov't wanted to get into the car business. GM wasn't for sale, it was on the brink...

The government gave cash in exchange for a stake in the company. It happens all the time in bankruptcy. Explain what you think is 'mischaracterized?'




By speeding GM out of bankruptcy in record time, forcing severe restructuring, and edging GM closer to profitability...

?

It was the bankruptcy that gave the government control of the company. You can't say the bankruptcy is the government giving up control.

As far as I know, the government hasn't done anything to relinquish control since the bankruptcy. You're arguing just for the sake of arguing. Bored?




It's little different than a tax rebate give arbitrarily and in some cases almost regardless of who paid what.

You're right...it's no different from the government arbitrarily giving out extraordinary tax rebates to random individuals...

And when has the government ever done that again? Is there an IRS lotto that I'm not aware of??

[Dr. Love]

http://blogs.laweekly.com/ladaily/3798440473_03f993f7f4.jpg

Why so socialist?

[LoungeMachine]

Is it considered "racist" because he's depicted in "white face" ???

:gulp:

[bueno bob]

Is it considered "racist" because he's depicted in "white face" ???

:gulp:

:biggrin:

[Fuct Jup]

There was a Joker faced GW Bush as well. Was that racist?

http://inlinethumb29.webshots.com/5276/2849939550104844794S425x425Q85.jpg

[Nickdfresh]

The government gave cash in exchange for a stake in the company. It happens all the time in bankruptcy. Explain what you think is 'mischaracterized?'

Because they didn't just buy it as a national car company like -say- France did Renault. It's not even remotely the same category...


?

It was the bankruptcy that gave the government control of the company. You can't say the bankruptcy is the government giving up control.

As far as I know, the government hasn't done anything to relinquish control since the bankruptcy. You're arguing just for the sake of arguing. Bored?

Of course they're not. But they are going to send it back to the private sector eventually. They can't just insta-divest™...

I'm not the one that started the "argument," Captain Semantics...


You're right...it's no different from the government arbitrarily giving out extraordinary tax rebates to random individuals...

And when has the government ever done that again? Is there an IRS lotto that I'm not aware of??

They gave out the tax rebate/credit to whomever applied for it. How much really different is that? Except that actually using targeted gov't incentives and benefits such as vouchers or extending unemployment benefits tend to be far more effective in the long run...

But carry on with your ideologue ideals of "libertarianism" that benefit foreign companies in nations with --oh!-- NATIONAL HEALTHCARE PROGRAMS that effectively serve as subsidies!

[Blackflag]

Because they didn't just buy it as a national car company like -say- France did Renault. It's not even remotely the same category...

Right. Not in the same category. Remind me again the difference between a government buying a company, like France and Renault...and a government exchanging cash for a majority stake in a company?




Of course they're not. But they are going to send it back to the private sector eventually. They can't just insta-divest™...

Of course not. And the tm thing is cool. But you said they are untaking control. (Though that's not really a word.) Present tense. So what are they doing presently to "untake" control?






They gave out the tax rebate/credit to whomever applied for it. How much really different is that?

Different than what? You said that it's "little different than a tax rebate given arbitrarily." I'm just asking when tax rebates have been given out like that before.




But carry on with your ideologue ideals of "libertarianism" that benefit foreign companies in nations with --oh!-- NATIONAL HEALTHCARE PROGRAMS that effectively serve as subsidies!

Yawn. Stay on topic, if you can.

[bueno bob]

There was a Joker faced GW Bush as well. Was that racist?

http://inlinethumb29.webshots.com/5276/2849939550104844794S425x425Q85.jpg

Nope, which is exactly why I brought it up earlier. Obama as Joker wasn't exactly an original idea, nor racist.

Just ignorant due to the whole "Socialist" thing.

[sadaist]

There was a Joker faced GW Bush as well. Was that racist?

http://inlinethumb29.webshots.com/5276/2849939550104844794S425x425Q85.jpg

No. It's impossible to be racist towards white people.

[bueno bob]

No. It's impossible to be racist towards white people.

I'm not sure I'd take it that far.

[Nickdfresh]

Right. Not in the same category. Remind me again the difference between a government buying a company, like France and Renault...and a government exchanging cash for a majority stake in a company?


I guess I will, since you're a tad thick. The French nationalized Renault as a matter of permanent national policy early on while the US acquired GM as a temporary emergency measure...

Is it that fucking difficult? If it is, I'll make a coloring book for you...


Of course not. And the tm thing is cool. But you said they are untaking control. (Though that's not really a word.) Present tense. So what are they doing presently to "untake" control?

Wow, it's "not really a word." Thanks for pointing that out Captain Monosyllabic. Thanks for the writing tip!

Maybe I can pay you back by letting you know that words exist that contain more than two syllables. The English language is great!


Different than what? You said that it's "little different than a tax rebate given arbitrarily." I'm just asking when tax rebates have been given out like that before.

I don't know, I''m not a tax historian. But I'm pretty sure the Bush tax cuts were largely unprecedented in their scope...


Yawn. Stay on topic, if you can.


Oh, sure. Please define the "topic?" Is that which ever you decide to skip or actually quote? Because I noticed you have a habit of deleting whatever you can't answer, pussy.

Why don't YOU fucking stay "on topic?"

[Nickdfresh]

No. It's impossible to be racist towards white people.

Oooh! The strawman argument of the night!!

[Blackflag]

Oooh! The strawman argument of the night!!

You really need to give that up...

[Nickdfresh]

You really need to give that up...

I can't! It's like coke to John Belushi...

It's also the truth. When dolts revert back the the knee-jerk Rush Limbaugh-isms and typical "conservative" talking points, that's exactly what it is! An argument nobody is making. Did anyone here say that blacks can't be racist assholes? No.

Quite the opposite. Read Kristy's post about being hot and on the dance floor...

[Blackflag]

I can't! It's like coke to John Belushi...

It's also the truth. When dolts revert back the the knee-jerk Rush Limbaugh-isms and typical "conservative" talking points, that's exactly what it is! An argument nobody is making. Did anyone here say that blacks can't be racist assholes? No.

Well at least go read the definition and find some examples, man. There are like 9 common argument fallacies, they've got to be on the internet somewhere. Shit!




Quite the opposite. Read Kristy's post about being hot and on the dance floor...

My curiosity is piqued. Link?

[Nickdfresh]

I'll get to it all tomorrow. I'm too tired...

[Blackflag]

Go buy some geritol.

[Nickdfresh]

Go buy some geritol.

"Geritol" is capitalized, asshole. It's a proper noun.

And maybe you can actually click on her user-ID and review her posts yourself, noob. It ain't really that tough...

[Blackflag]

"Geritol" is capitalized, asshole. It's a proper noun.

And maybe you can actually click on her user-ID and review her posts yourself, noob. It ain't really that tough...

What am I, a computer genius?

[Dr. Love]

clearly not

[standin]

Is it considered "racist" because he's depicted in "white face" ???

:gulp:

Michael Jackson is a racist militant?
You don't say?!
My,that's just shocking!
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3624/3661530371_0e1decd471_m.jpg
Or would play the race card, any race card when ever convenient?