Obama supports the Patriot Act.

[Blackflag]

Obama supports extending Patriot Act provisions - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090915/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/us_patriot_act)

"The Obama administration supports extending three key provisions of the Patriot Act that are due to expire at the end of the year, the Justice Department told Congress in a letter made public Tuesday."

[ELVIS]

Lmao!

[Nickdfresh]

Gee Blackflag, what exactly are those "provisions?"


...
Michelle Richardson of the American Civil Liberties Union called the administration's position "a mixed bag," and said that the group hopes the next version of the Patriot Act will have important safeguards on other issues, particularly the collecting of international communications, and a specific bar on surveillance of protected First Amendment activities like peaceful protests or religious assembly.

"We're heartened they're saying they're willing to work with Congress," Richardson said, adding that is "definitely a sea change from what we've seen in the past."

[Blackflag]

Gee Blackflag, what exactly are those "provisions?"

I don't understand what you're driving at.

Answer: "the business records provision," the "lone wolf provision," and "the roving wiretaps provision."

[Nitro Express]

Yeah. I wonder when Obama will be buddy, buddy with the Bush family like Clinton.

[ELVIS]

Three years from now...

[standin]

A roving wiretap is a wiretap specific to the United States that follows the surveillance target. For instance, if a target attempts to defeat surveillance by throwing away a phone and acquiring a new one, by moving, or by any other methods, another surveillance order would usually need to be applied for. However, a "roving" wiretap follows the target, and defeats the target's attempts at breaking the surveillance by changing location or their communications technology. It is allowed under amendments made to Title III of the Omnibus Crime Control and Safe Streets Act of 1968 (the "Wiretap Statute") in 1988 by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, and was later expanded by section 604 of the Intelligence Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 1999.
Roving wiretap - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roving_wiretap)


C. The "Lone Wolf' Provision
In addition to the US A PATRIOT Act provisions scheduled to sunset at the end of this year, the "lone wolr' provision of the Intelligeme Reform and Terrorism Prevention Act of 2004 Is also scheduled to sunset. Before paaage of this proviion, FISA prevented tlr: FBI from obtaining asurveillame order of an intermtioml terrorist unlea it could establish a connection to a foreign power. However, a lone wolf terrorist seeking to attack the United States may not be connected to a foreign power, or his connection to a foreign power may not be known. This provision applies only to non-U.S. persons engaging or preparing to engage in international terrorism and FISA Court authorizationis still required to monitor lone wolf terrorists.
http://www.usdoj.gov/archive/ll/subs/testimony/042605-oipr-baker.pdf

A lone wolf or lone-wolf fighter is someone who commits violent and/or non-violent acts in support of some group, movement, or ideology, but does so alone, outside of any command structure.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lone_wolf_(terrorism)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5a/Unabomber_free_image.jpg
Theodore (Ted) Kaczynski - Lone wolf terrorist.



The "business records provision" is vague Which "provision" exactly are you speaking of?


The Honorable Joseph R. Biden, Jr. Page 2
Applications for Access to Certain Business Records (Including the Production of Tangible Things) Made During Calendar Year 2008 (50 U.S.C. § 1862(c)(1))
During calendar year 2008, the Government filed and the FISC approved thirteen applications for access to certain business records (including the production of tangible things) for foreign intelligence purposes. The FISC did not deny, in whole or in part, any such application filed by the Government during calendar year 2008.l

http://www.usdoj.gov/nsd/foia/reading_room/2008fisa-ltr.pdf


13 in one year is very slim.
Matter fact, I am saddened after researching, to find out how very little the Act will assist me in fighting every day corruption. I was under the belief it was a big asset in obtaining records. I don't even think the Act was useful in busting that law maker in LA who kept his bribes in his freezer and tried to say he was immune to searches by his law maker status. :(
William J. Jefferson
William J. Jefferson - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_J._Jefferson)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/87/William_Jefferson%2C_official_photo.jpg/225px-William_Jefferson%2C_official_photo.jpg
Patriot act was not useful :(

[Nickdfresh]

None of which I have a problem with as long as he 'works with congress' to insure civil liberties are protected and that protections are added.

[Blackflag]

None of which I have a problem with as long as he 'works with congress' to insure civil liberties are protected and that protections are added.

:lmao:

Nick, I'm pretty sure they said the same thing when they wrote it the first time. :hee:

They only say that to placate the simple people. It's like saying, 'don't worry - I'll use some lube first.'

[Blackflag]

From the 2005 renewal:

"the PATRIOT Act contains safeguards that protect civil liberties,"

"while at the same time preserving citizens’ constitutional rights and civil liberties. "

House Approves Renewal of Patriot Act Protections against Terrorists (http://www.house.gov/ryan/press_releases/2005pressreleases/patriot2_72205.html)

And I know they dropped the same mindless sound bytes in 2001. But because it's Obama, you believe it this time? Here's a clue for you: it's hard to do something flat-out unconstitutional while still "preserving civil liberties."

:hee:

[Blackflag]

"Protections!'

"Safeguards!"

"Civil liberties!"

:lmao:

http://static.flickr.com/209/512984836_1158407bb7.jpg

[THEDOCTOR]

Hey whats wrong with you communists. Can't you READ ? It the PATRIOT act! If you don't agree with a title like that, you must not love America. If you don't love it, leave you Nazi bastards!
Remember....you are either with us....or against us. So choose your sides detractors! Long live the loss of personal freedom and civil liberies in the name of "the war on terrah"!!!!
(sarcasm now off)

[Nitro Express]

Whatever. Power does what it wants anyways. Drugs are illegal but the CIA is one of the world's largest drug suppliers. If they want to listen on you, the NSA can just do that through your cell phone, On Star in your car, your laptop computer. That's what all those international standards are about on electronics. They just do it because they can.

[Nitro Express]

Nobody is going to give up their cell phone, computer, blackberry, and view On Star as a bonus on their car. If the FBI got caught putting a bug in their home they would be furious but it's already bugged and traceable back to you through you account. In other words, they rape us by making us think they are doing us a favor.

[Nickdfresh]

:lmao:

Nick, I'm pretty sure they said the same thing when they wrote it the first time. :hee:

Not really. I'm pretty sure the blanket Nat'l Security Letters were anything but. And I rarely recall hearing of civil liberties in the lexicon.


They only say that to placate the simple people. It's like saying, 'don't worry - I'll use some lube first.'

Not if they institute tangible checks and balances and judicial review...

And yes, the unPatriot Act and the Warrantless wiretapping violating FISA were not just un-Constitutional, they were stupid and only clog up the works and distract from real priority targets...

[Blackflag]

Not if they institute tangible checks and balances and judicial review...

Those are called the Bill of Rights, and they were already there before the Patriot Act shat on them.

("shat" is one of my new words.)

[Nitro Express]

We now have the best government money can buy. He with the gold determines the rights.

[Nickdfresh]

Those are called the Bill of Rights, and they were already there before the Patriot Act shat on them.

("shat" is one of my new words.)

Shat isn't new, I've used it often as the fancy sounding past tense of shitting...

Of course, but I also support lawfully conducted internal security. Much of the Patriot Act is shit the way it was formulated into a giant ball of shit that not only has threatened civil liberties. But has actually been very ineffective and possibly hindered security by trying to combine too many agencies and lacking real reforms. For instance, the FBI...

They should have been split up into an agency that dealt with organized crime and political corruption, etc. And a new domestic intelligence agency that focused solely on counterintelligence and anti-terrorism should have been formed...

[sadaist]

And a new domestic intelligence agency that focused solely on counterintelligence and anti-terrorism should have been formed...


Department of Homeland Security | Preserving our Freedoms, Protecting America (http://www.dhs.gov/index.shtm)

[GAR]

Hey whats wrong with you communists. Can't you READ ? It the PATRIOT act!

It's the most infringing, unpatriotic grab on your personal freedoms ever floated up from the sewer in the name of fear.

Fuck the patriot act! That's just a name, like "Economic Stimulus and Recovery Act".. they said they wanted to buy up Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac toxic assets with it, but wound up controlling banks, automakers and insurers with it. So fuck em - Obama's a liar and he's part and parcel now to these lies so fuck him too!

[Blackflag]

Patriot Act = :shiznit: = Obama = Bush = :shiznit:

[standin]

For instance, the FBI...

They should have been split up into an agency that dealt with organized crime and political corruption, etc. And a new domestic intelligence agency that focused solely on counterintelligence and anti-terrorism should have been formed...
And they still should.
And add teeth to the SEC

[ZahZoo]

All this "talk" of lost civil liberties...

Will all the people who have been inhibited from what ever the hell you want to do in life... please step forward and state your case?

Queue up the cricket soundtrack...

[Nitro Express]

I've been trying to figure out why the job losses continue but the stock market is rallying and gold is going up in value. Stocks usually do poorly when people are losing their jobs and gold only gets over $1000/ounce when people are spooked. So who's buying all these stocks? The bankers who ripped ups off. They have all that bailout money to launder. One of our senators said a lot of this bailout money isn't even appropriated through them. Wall Street has direct access to the US Treasury so apparently trillions of dollars have to be laundered and they are buying stocks and rallying the prices and then you have Bernanke telling us the recession is over. They will then cash out after suckers have bought in and cause an even bigger crash.

There is no real economy. The CEO's are just robbing the corporations and most the production has been sent overseas. The stock market now is just a manipulated game.

[Nitro Express]

All this "talk" of lost civil liberties...

Will all the people who have been inhibited from what ever the hell you want to do in life... please step forward and state your case?

Queue up the cricket soundtrack...

The Patriot Act took habius corpus away. If you are SUSPECTED of being a terrorist, they can arrest you and throw you in prison with no trial. There's no innocent until proven guilty and they can even hold you overseas. They don't even need a warrant to do this.

Maybe this hasn't gotten in my way yet but the protection the constitution gave me from the govt. has been whittled away. Exactly what is a terrorist suspect?

[Nickdfresh]

Department of Homeland Security | Preserving our Freedoms, Protecting America (http://www.dhs.gov/index.shtm)

Yeah, I know. One big, expensive clusterfuck...

[Nickdfresh]

The Patriot Act took habius corpus away. If you are SUSPECTED of being a terrorist, they can arrest you and throw you in prison with no trial. There's no innocent until proven guilty and they can even hold you overseas. They don't even need a warrant to do this.

Not true. Not if you're a US citizen...Even "some kind of aliens" get Habeas Corpus...

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/06/12/boumediene/

[Nickdfresh]

Even Sammy Hagar gets Habeas Corpus!