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Fuct Jup
09-29-2009, 08:29 AM
No shit. What has Obama accomplished since he has been elected? Maybe if he spent a few days in the While House he would get something done.

If ubiquity were the measure of a presidency, Barack Obama would already be grinning at us from Mount Rushmore. But of course it is not. Despite his many words and television appearances, our elegant and eloquent president remains more an emblem of change than an agent of it. He's a man with an endless, worthy to-do list—health care, climate change, bank reform, global capital regulation, AfPak, the Middle East, you name it—but, as yet, no boxes checked "done." This is a problem that style will not fix. Unless Obama learns to rely less on charm, rhetoric, and good intentions and more on picking his spots and winning in political combat, he's not going to be reelected, let alone enshrined in South Dakota.

The president's problem isn't that he is too visible; it's the lack of content in what he says when he keeps showing up on the tube. Obama can seem a mite too impressed with his own aura, as if his presence on the stage is the Answer. There is, at times, a self-referential (even self-reverential) tone in his big speeches. They are heavily salted with the words "I" and "my." (He used the former 11 times in the first few paragraphs of his address to the U.N. last week.) Obama is a historic figure, but that is the beginning, not the end, of the story.

There is only so much political mileage that can still be had by his reminding the world that he is not George W. Bush. It was the winning theme of the 2008 campaign, but that race ended nearly a year ago. The ex-president is now more ex than ever, yet the current president, who vowed to look forward, is still reaching back to Bush as bogeyman.

He did it again in that U.N. speech. The delegates wanted to know what the president was going to do about Israel and the Palestinian territories. He answered by telling them what his predecessor had failed to do. This was effective for his first month or two. Now it is starting to sound more like an excuse than an explanation.

Members of Obama's own party know who Obama is not; they still sometimes wonder who he really is. In Washington, the appearance of uncertainty is taken as weakness—especially on Capitol Hill, where a president is only as revered as he is feared. Being the cool, convivial late-night-guest in chief won't cut it with Congress, an institution impervious to charm (especially the charm of a president with wavering poll numbers). Members of both parties are taking Obama's measure with their defiant and sometimes hostile response to his desires on health care. Never much of a legislator (and not long a senator), Obama underestimated the complexity of enacting a major "reform" bill. Letting Congress try to write it on its own was an awful idea. As a balkanized land of microfiefdoms, each loyal to its own lobbyists and consultants, Congress is incapable of being led by its "leadership." It's not like Chicago, where you call a guy who calls a guy who calls Daley, who makes the call. The president himself must make his wishes clear—along with the consequences for those who fail to grant them.

The model is a man whose political effectiveness Obama repeatedly says he admires: Ronald Reagan. There was never doubt about what he wanted. The Gipper made his simple, dramatic tax cuts the centerpiece not only of his campaign but also of the entire first year of his presidency.

Obama seems to think he'll get credit for the breathtaking scope of his ambition. But unless he sees results, it will have the opposite effect—diluting his clout, exhausting his allies, and emboldening his enemies.

That may be starting to happen. Health-care legislation is still weeks, if not months, from passage, and the bill as it stands could well be a windfall for the very insurance and drug companies it was supposed to rein in. Climate-change legislation (a.k.a. cap-and-trade) is almost certainly dead for this year, which means that American negotiators will go empty-handed to the Copenhagen summit in December —pushing the goal of limiting carbon emissions even farther into the distance. In the spring Obama privately told the big banks that he was going to change the way they do business. It was going to be his way or the highway. But the complex legislation he wants to submit to Congress has little chance of passage this year. Doing Letterman again won't help. It may boost the host's ratings, Mr. President, but probably not your own.

Enough TV, Mr. President. How About Governing? | Newsweek Voices - Howard Fineman | Newsweek.com (http://www.newsweek.com/id/216210)

ZahZoo
09-29-2009, 10:11 AM
Can't argue with the content... whole lot of talk and appearances. Not a lot accomplished.

I really do think it's time to get off the campaign trail type speeches and focus on who President Obama is and is going to be. He's clearly established who he's not... GW Bush. The rest of the world gets it... So what's he bringing to the table???

Big Train
09-29-2009, 11:24 AM
Newsweek is just pissed that he is the reigning cover boy, nearly 26 issues, of Time Magazine. Which by the way, like MSNBC, ABC, NBC and CNN, oh and nearly all major newspapers and well, anything not on talk radio, has yet to find fault at all with him.

sadaist
09-29-2009, 11:33 AM
And this week he's stumping for Chicago to get the Olympics. I'd like to see Rio get them this time.

Nitro Express
09-29-2009, 01:06 PM
Obama is out to get an Emmy for playing president. He would be better suited in Hollywood than Washington DC.

Nitro Express
09-29-2009, 01:12 PM
The middle east is heading for a real crises with the Iran situation. Iran is going to attack Israel or shut the Persian Gulf down and if we do nothing, Israel attacks Iran to stop an attack. One miscalculation could start World War III and we have this fool in office that all he knows how to do is bullshit.

Nitro Express
09-29-2009, 01:17 PM
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Fuct Jup
09-29-2009, 01:44 PM
Come on now, doesn't charisma and narcissism count for something? :umm:

Fuct Jup
09-29-2009, 01:45 PM
And this week he's stumping for Chicago to get the Olympics. I'd like to see Rio get them this time.

For the Olympics that will take place 8 fucking years from now.

Nitro Express
09-29-2009, 01:50 PM
For the Olympics that will take place 8 fucking years from now.

The way the world is going, we may not be here 8 years from now. We can't afford another failure president. The geopolitical and economic situation is going to split the world up into waring factions and the US itself is in REAL danger of coming apart once the US Dollar hyperinflates.

Nitro Express
09-29-2009, 01:54 PM
Come on now, doesn't charisma and narcissism count for something? :umm:

LOL! Those are the only two things Obama is good at.

Nickdfresh
09-29-2009, 02:23 PM
I agree with the basic thesis of the article that Obama needs to focus more on substance and less on style via the media - and he is overexposed. However, the people here reading more into the articles criticisms than what is really there might want to think a bit. Obama's been President for like nine months? He's minimized a recession and we're seeing it ending; something Reagan took two years to do, and he's actually tackling heady issues such as health care and two Wars.

Where were half of you whiny bitches when Bush was taking more vacation time in history than any pResident and clearing brush at his recently purchased, pseudo-cowboy hang out in Crawford?

Fuct Jup
09-29-2009, 02:45 PM
I agree with the basic thesis of the article that Obama needs to focus more on substance and less on style via the media - and he is overexposed. However, the people here reading more into the articles criticisms than what is really there might want to think a bit. Obama's been President for like nine months? He's minimized a recession and we're seeing it ending; something Reagan took two years to do, and he's actually tackling heady issues such as health care and two Wars.

Where were half of you whiny bitches when Bush was taking more vacation time in history than any pResident and clearing brush at his recently purchased, pseudo-cowboy hang out in Crawford?

Obama minimized a recession? Yea, lets give the Do-Nothing-in-Chief credit for that? We have the highest unemployment rate in the history of the country and you think he minimized the recession? Some states have a 15&#37; unemployment rate. Pull the other leg and it plays jingle bells.

Fuct Jup
09-29-2009, 03:15 PM
He's minimized a recession and we're seeing it ending; something Reagan took two years to do, and he's actually tackling heady issues such as health care and two Wars.


The recession is ending huh?
"Americans' worries about job security flared up in September, causing a widely watched barometer of consumer confidence to fall unexpectedly and raising more concern about the upcoming holiday shopping season."
Consumer Confidence Unexpectedly Slides in September - Political News - FOXNews.com (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/09/29/consumer-confidence-unexpectedly-slides-september/)

What has he done for the 2 wars? He hasn't even talked to the General in 71 days about strategy? Yea - that's rich. He's in Copenhagen with Oprah fighting for the Olympics that will take place 8 years from now...

BITEYOASS
09-29-2009, 03:23 PM
The way the world is going, we may not be here 8 years from now. We can't afford another failure president. The geopolitical and economic situation is going to split the world up into waring factions and the US itself is in REAL danger of coming apart once the US Dollar hyperinflates.

AAAAAAAAHHHHHH THE WOILD IS COMING TO AN END AND JAAAAYYZUS IS HEADING DOWN HIS CHARIOT! GET YOUR GUNS BECAUZE EVEN THOUGH THEY WILL DO NO GOOD AGAINST THE DEVIL'S MINIONS! :cato::soapbox::afro2::rolleye0018:

Seriously, get a fuckin grip!

Fuct Jup
09-29-2009, 03:32 PM
AAAAAAAAHHHHHH THE WOILD IS COMING TO AN END AND JAAAAYYZUS IS HEADING DOWN HIS CHARIOT! GET YOUR GUNS BECAUZE EVEN THOUGH THEY WILL DO NO GOOD AGAINST THE DEVIL'S MINIONS! :cato::soapbox::afro2::rolleye0018:

Seriously, get a fuckin grip!

Yea - what's there to worry about?

Stadiums, hotels warned to watch for terrorists
Stadiums, hotels warned to watch for terrorists (http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9ASEPN00&show_article=1)

Terror arrest sparks gov't warning on mass transit
My Way News - Terror arrest sparks gov't warning on mass transit (http://apnews.myway.com/article/20090922/D9ASABU00.html)

Ahmadinejad warns against military attack on Iran
My Way News - Ahmadinejad warns against military attack on Iran (http://apnews.myway.com/article/20090922/D9ASA8GG0.html)

Kristy
09-29-2009, 04:15 PM
Actually, he's done a lot since being elected. However on one hand, he's bitterly learning his hook & slogan motto of "Yes We can" doesn't fly to well in the political machinery that is Washington and to be quite honest, that's what he's being faulted on. On the other, he's also have to accept the fact that simply not being George Bush won't get you far in life. This whole rock star posturing either done by him or by the media to him has to go and he needs to start acting like a god damn President. The hell with trying to lecture to Parisian youth or Egyptian sultans on how fucked America is to earn a few brownie points for global relations. I voted for the guy under the pretenses that there is much domestic issues to be worked on and I really don't care what some smug crust-infested beaded bohemian with a beret and iPod has to say about America. France, Germany, England, etc all have their greedy hands in the pot of world corruption so why does he seem to be blind to this?

As for the article: retarded. Ooooh, play the Palestine/Israel card a few more times, why don't ya? Just exactly what was the Bush Administration policy on this "conflict" at the U.N? Oh, that's right, to keep on selling Israel military hardware and give information on how to make better biological chemical and even nuclear weapons as long as they don't put a high-caliber bullet into the skull of a 15 year-old Palestinian trying to suicide bomb an Israeli village..?

My President isn't too visible. What a pathetic diatribe for an argument. He, like his Washington constituents, are publicly elected leaders who work for the common man (i.e., taxpayer) and therefore better make themselves known to me and you. This is why hardly any people in their own fucking states know who their congressional or senatorial leaders are! Say what you want about Bush and even Clinton but a clandestine President scares me. And speaking of the latter, who knew what in the hell he was doing until being busted for chasing a intern skirt?

So Obama is another political leader letdown for the Fox News clique media organization hack theorists. What else is new? He's exhausted all his "political mileage" (whatever that means). He won't give a break to the rich, the rich of course being people who run shitty and unreadable "magazines" like Newspeak er, I mean Newsweek. Shocking!

ZahZoo
09-29-2009, 05:06 PM
Obama's been President for like nine months? He's minimized a recession and we're seeing it ending; something Reagan took two years to do, and he's actually tackling heady issues such as health care and two Wars.

Where were half of you whiny bitches when Bush was taking more vacation time in history than any pResident and clearing brush at his recently purchased, pseudo-cowboy hang out in Crawford?

I'll give you some on the recession part but... where's the changes in controls that were promised to prevent the finincial businesses from sinking the ship again?? Where's the investigations and prosecutions for the criminals that drummed up all the toxic loans? We stopped the bleeding by plugging the holes with money... got to do more to prevent relapse.

Health care... all talk and no legislation. Neither the president nor congress have accomplished a damn thing.

Tackling two wars..??? WTF?? Seriously what has the Commander in Chief "tackled". As far as I can tell he's continued lock step with the Bush administration's management of both Iraq and Afganistan wars. No change in any direction. Business as usual.

Please don't ask where were you when Bush was president... most of us were all here and offering our opinions, good, bad or indifferent.

Look Bush ain't the President anymore... done... over. Obama is... right now. So if your best argument for lack of progress from your man Obama is to throw some stupid lame jab at the past in Bush... Please go seek out Gar. He needs more dance partners...

BITEYOASS
09-29-2009, 05:09 PM
Yea - what's there to worry about?

Stadiums, hotels warned to watch for terrorists
Stadiums, hotels warned to watch for terrorists (http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9ASEPN00&show_article=1)

Terror arrest sparks gov't warning on mass transit
My Way News - Terror arrest sparks gov't warning on mass transit (http://apnews.myway.com/article/20090922/D9ASABU00.html)

Ahmadinejad warns against military attack on Iran
My Way News - Ahmadinejad warns against military attack on Iran (http://apnews.myway.com/article/20090922/D9ASA8GG0.html)

Well are you gonna do something about it, or just crawl into a corner and pray for armageddon to come sooner?

Added to that we've killed all of the smart terrorist. All that is left are the mentally retarted muhjadeen wannabees who are easily arrested.

Nickdfresh
09-29-2009, 06:03 PM
Obama minimized a recession? Yea, lets give the Do-Nothing-in-Chief credit for that?

Why wouldn't he get credit for it? Reagan gets credit for it? How is he "do nothing?"


We have the highest unemployment rate in the history of the country and you think he minimized the recession?

Dude, you're retarded. Read a history book on something called the Great Depression in which we had over 25% unemployment. And unemployment numbers were higher in the 1980s during the ((((ta DAHHH!!!)))) --the Reagan Administration.

Stop making facts up...


Some states have a 15% unemployment rate. Pull the other leg and it plays jingle bells.

And some have 5% unemployment rates, hence the 10% overall figure. Pull your own leg, idiot...

Nickdfresh
09-29-2009, 06:07 PM
The recession is ending huh?
"Americans' worries about job security flared up in September, causing a widely watched barometer of consumer confidence to fall unexpectedly and raising more concern about the upcoming holiday shopping season."
Consumer Confidence Unexpectedly Slides in September - Political News - FOXNews.com (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/09/29/consumer-confidence-unexpectedly-slides-september/)

Right. Most economists have indicators including rising manufacturing, retail sales, and slowing job losses as. But feel free to cut and paste any of your one negative Fox snews articles you negative pussies typically tend to latch onto while ignoring largely positive economic indicators....


What has he done for the 2 wars? He hasn't even talked to the General in 71 days about strategy? Yea - that's rich. He's in Copenhagen with Oprah fighting for the Olympics that will take place 8 years from now...

What the fuck do you want him to do for the "2 wars?" I have yet to figure out what your specific bitch is about them?

Nickdfresh
09-29-2009, 06:09 PM
Yea - what's there to worry about?

Stadiums, hotels warned to watch for terrorists
Stadiums, hotels warned to watch for terrorists (http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9ASEPN00&show_article=1)

Terror arrest sparks gov't warning on mass transit
My Way News - Terror arrest sparks gov't warning on mass transit (http://apnews.myway.com/article/20090922/D9ASABU00.html)

Ahmadinejad warns against military attack on Iran
My Way News - Ahmadinejad warns against military attack on Iran (http://apnews.myway.com/article/20090922/D9ASA8GG0.html)

Remember to change your pants after shitting them, panic bunny...

Big Train
09-29-2009, 06:16 PM
[QUOTE=Nickdfresh;1387067]you negative pussies typically tend to latch onto while ignoring largely positive economic indicators....

QUOTE]

I guess you would be a positive asshole in contrast.

Largely positive indicators vs. overall reality...it's take a little more math than indicators to tell the whole story..

Nickdfresh
09-29-2009, 06:17 PM
I'll give you some on the recession part but... where's the changes in controls that were promised to prevent the finincial businesses from sinking the ship again?? Where's the investigations and prosecutions for the criminals that drummed up all the toxic loans? We stopped the bleeding by plugging the holes with money... got to do more to prevent relapse.

That's ongoing and more needs to be done. But I think it's been like nine months or something and we're barely even out of the recession...


Health care... all talk and no legislation. Neither the president nor congress have accomplished a damn thing.

They're publicly discussing it for one thing and a sense of crisis is finally taking hold. Unfortunately, he's pushing to get it all too soon. Again, health care reform legislation will be ongoing for years to come...


Tackling two wars..??? WTF?? Seriously what has the Commander in Chief "tackled". As far as I can tell he's continued lock step with the Bush administration's management of both Iraq and Afganistan wars. No change in any direction. Business as usual.

Actually, he's gradually withdrawing from Iraq and US forces are no longer in the cities, and his Afghan policy is a major shift in emphasis from Bush --for better or for worse...


Please don't ask where were you when Bush was president... most of us were all here and offering our opinions, good, bad or indifferent.

But a lot were apparently giving him blind support and a free pass for the very same nitpicky bullshit they're now trashing Obama for...


Look Bush ain't the President anymore... done... over. Obama is... right now. So if your best argument for lack of progress from your man Obama is to throw some stupid lame jab at the past in Bush...

I wasn't taking a "jab at Bush" per-say. Just the posters here who couldn't get enough of sucking his dick when he was president and now hammer Obama almost completely irrationally for doing the very same things past presidents have done...


Please go seek out Gar. He needs more dance partners...

I'd would, but you're all over his dance card, old man...

Nickdfresh
09-29-2009, 06:20 PM
I guess you would be a positive asshole in contrast.

Lick me...


Largely positive indicators vs. overall reality...it's take a little more math than indicators to tell the whole story..

Oh please. What's the "overall reality" then, fucking Greenspan?

Big Train
09-29-2009, 06:41 PM
Keep your fantasies to yourself, first off.

Secondly, Bernanke, look around. High unemployment , still weakening dollar, record high debt, job losses still shedding at an acclerated pace, foreclosures...that's REALITY. Because the indicators went up a few ticks for a few months doesn't mean much. The overall picture is much more dreary and is going to take a lot more work. Perhaps it makes me a "negative pussy" to acknowledge the obvious, but it is what it is.

The kinds of numbers that need to be seen via indicators in the next few years need to be double digits quarter after quarter to just stem the losses.

Nickdfresh
09-29-2009, 07:12 PM
Keep your fantasies to yourself, first off.

You're the one worried about my asshole content!


Secondly, Bernanke, look around. High unemployment , still weakening dollar, record high debt, job losses still shedding at an acclerated pace, foreclosures...that's REALITY. Because the indicators went up a few ticks for a few months doesn't mean much. The overall picture is much more dreary and is going to take a lot more work. Perhaps it makes me a "negative pussy" to acknowledge the obvious, but it is what it is.

Of course there is high unemployment, that's what recessions leave societies with, and it will take time, even years, to reverse that. All I've said was that the economic indicators have showed things turning around. The weakening dollar helps exports, jobs ARE NOT being shed at an "accelerated pace." The jobs situation has stabilized and layoffs have dropped to pre-recession/depression levels. Foreclosures? Sure. But the Housing market is rebounding and has been up for three straight months though it's still well below 2005 levels...

All I've said is that the recession is ending and things have stabilized. I never said roses are growing out of our asses or anything...


The kinds of numbers that need to be seen via indicators in the next few years need to be double digits quarter after quarter to just stem the losses.

Right, well, that has little to do with the recession ending. Of course things will take years to rebound fully...

Big Train
09-29-2009, 08:18 PM
You're the one worried about my asshole content!

Only when you are typing out of it..

Of course there is high unemployment, that's what recessions leave societies with, and it will take time, even years, to reverse that. All I've said was that the economic indicators have showed things turning around. The weakening dollar helps exports, jobs ARE NOT being shed at an "accelerated pace." The jobs situation has stabilized and layoffs have dropped to pre-recession/depression levels. Foreclosures? Sure. But the Housing market is rebounding and has been up for three straight months though it's still well below 2005 levels...


All I've said is that the recession is ending and things have stabilized.

Oh yea, stable, that weak dollar is helping jobs all over the place. Couple hundred thousand more out the window.

Stocks Flat as Focus Turns to Jobs - WSJ.com (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125422256904848919.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_sections_mar kets)

A weak reading of consumer confidence and jitters about upcoming jobs data cooled stocks on Tuesday.

The Dow Jones Industrial Average gave back more than a third of the previous session's solid gain, ending down 47.16 points, or 0.5%, at 9742.20. Heading into the last trading session of 2009's third quarter, the blue-chip measure is up 15.3% for the period, on track for its best quarterly performance since 1998.

Currencies Since last week, investors have paused to reassess the economy and what level of stock-market exposure to maintain in their portfolios, after a September rally that has defied the month's historical role as an investing minefield. The Dow is up 2.6% so far in September, heading for the index's third straight monthly gain. On average, stocks have declined more than 1% in September.

Stocks managed a slight gain just after Tuesday's opening bell, but the rally evaporated after the Conference Board said its monthly index of consumer confidence declined to 53.1 in September from 54.5 in August. Analysts had been hoping to see the measure rise to 57.

As the session wore on, traders also began to look ahead to jobs data due out from the government on Friday morning, with analysts expecting to see several hundred thousand more jobs shed from U.S. payrolls for September.

Such measures of the "real economy" have generally remained weak lately despite improvements in corporate profits driven by cost-cutting and an uptick in merger activity reflecting renewed willingness on Wall Street to take on financial risk.

"People don't want to be left holding the bag when the market tops," said Roger Volz, director of equities at BGC Partners in New York. "There's more evidence that we're seeing topping activity rather than some potential for another 20% in gains."

Other indexes also headed lower. The Nasdaq Composite was off 0.3%. The S&P 500 fell 0.2%, led by a 0.7% decline in its information-technology sector.

Moody's shares jumped 10.9%, and McGraw-Hill climbed 7.3%, after analysts at PiperJaffray said debt-issue trends this month suggest an upside for Moody's as well as McGraw-Hill's Standard & Poor's unit. Both stocks have been under pressure this month due to the debate over the role of ratings agencies.

Oil prices slipped 13 cents to snap a two-day winning streak, the dollar posted modest gains against major rivals, and Treasury prices slipped.

Nickdfresh
09-29-2009, 08:57 PM
Oh yea, stable, that weak dollar is helping jobs all over the place. Couple hundred thousand more out the window.

Stocks Flat as Focus Turns to Jobs - WSJ.com (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125422256904848919.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_sections_mar kets)

A weak reading of consumer confidence and jitters about upcoming jobs data cooled stocks on Tuesday.

The Dow Jones Industrial Average gave back more than a third of the previous session's solid gain, ending down 47.16 points, or 0.5&#37;, at 9742.20. Heading into the last trading session of 2009's third quarter, the blue-chip measure is up 15.3% for the period, on track for its best quarterly performance since 1998.

Currencies Since last week, investors have paused to reassess the economy and what level of stock-market exposure to maintain in their portfolios, after a September rally that has defied the month's historical role as an investing minefield. The Dow is up 2.6% so far in September, heading for the index's third straight monthly gain. On average, stocks have declined more than 1% in September.

Stocks managed a slight gain just after Tuesday's opening bell, but the rally evaporated after the Conference Board said its monthly index of consumer confidence declined to 53.1 in September from 54.5 in August. Analysts had been hoping to see the measure rise to 57.

As the session wore on, traders also began to look ahead to jobs data due out from the government on Friday morning, with analysts expecting to see several hundred thousand more jobs shed from U.S. payrolls for September.

Such measures of the "real economy" have generally remained weak lately despite improvements in corporate profits driven by cost-cutting and an uptick in merger activity reflecting renewed willingness on Wall Street to take on financial risk.

"People don't want to be left holding the bag when the market tops," said Roger Volz, director of equities at BGC Partners in New York. "There's more evidence that we're seeing topping activity rather than some potential for another 20% in gains."

Other indexes also headed lower. The Nasdaq Composite was off 0.3%. The S&P 500 fell 0.2%, led by a 0.7% decline in its information-technology sector.

Moody's shares jumped 10.9%, and McGraw-Hill climbed 7.3%, after analysts at PiperJaffray said debt-issue trends this month suggest an upside for Moody's as well as McGraw-Hill's Standard & Poor's unit. Both stocks have been under pressure this month due to the debate over the role of ratings agencies.

Oil prices slipped 13 cents to snap a two-day winning streak, the dollar posted modest gains against major rivals, and Treasury prices slipped.

Thanks for the cut and paste and the hint of a strawman argument. Firstly, are you this much of a short sighted bitch? The market has been on consecutive increases. It's dropped a few points, but we're still on the verge of 10,000 again.

Secondly, what's your point? I just stated that the employment situation is tough. Of course it is since a recession ending doesn't mean a recovery is occurring or that unemployment will disappear. But the layoffs have slowed and the economy is in flux. Sorry Obama didn't wave a magic wand and fix it all, but I think it wasn't a full two years into Reagan's first term that people were talking about his defeat in 1984...

Big Train
09-29-2009, 09:16 PM
Thanks for the cut and paste and the hint of a strawman argument. Firstly, are you this much of a short sighted bitch? The market has been on consecutive increases. It's dropped a few points, but we're still on the verge of 10,000 again.

Secondly, what's your point? I just stated that the employment situation is tough. Of course it is since a recession ending doesn't mean a recovery is occurring or that unemployment will disappear. But the layoffs have slowed and the economy is in flux. Sorry Obama didn't wave a magic wand and fix it all, but I think it wasn't a full two years into Reagan's first term that people were talking about his defeat in 1984...

That's exactly what I'm saying to you, you short sighted bitch. The market is still generally tumbling down with rallies, of which we have been in one. My "Cut and paste" (like your innocent of cut n pasting to support your position, but i'll leave that alone for the moment, as well as your intellectual saftey word "Strawman"), showed that yes, while indicators have been up , it's far to early to say anything has changed.

I'm just saying your optimisim is premature. Throw Reagan in yet again if it makes you feel better, but in the here and now, there is far too much going wrong still to say that anything has changed conclusively, regardless of what prominent economists think. The market is still holding back, still unsold on the idea the recession is over.

Nitro Express
09-29-2009, 09:23 PM
I agree with the basic thesis of the article that Obama needs to focus more on substance and less on style via the media - and he is overexposed. However, the people here reading more into the articles criticisms than what is really there might want to think a bit. Obama's been President for like nine months? He's minimized a recession and we're seeing it ending; something Reagan took two years to do, and he's actually tackling heady issues such as health care and two Wars.

Where were half of you whiny bitches when Bush was taking more vacation time in history than any pResident and clearing brush at his recently purchased, pseudo-cowboy hang out in Crawford?

Dude. The recession is far from over. Look at the job losses. The bailout will buy some time but it has set us up for a worse crash. The Fed can't drops rates anymore and the stock market is going is the bankers who have stolen trillions of dollars have to launder it so they buy stocks. Nothing is really market driven anymore.

Nitro Express
09-29-2009, 09:25 PM
I smell more war and then what's after that I have no idea. The bankers have to start a war or some kind of panic to clamp down. Their money manipulation game is almost played out. They are going to have to grab real physical power next.

Nickdfresh
09-29-2009, 09:32 PM
That's exactly what I'm saying to you, you short sighted bitch. The market is still generally tumbling down with rallies, of which we have been in one.

LMFAO!! Oh, okay supa' investa'. I forgot about your expertise.:biggrin: Yeah, the markets dropped last year about 6000 points, and have steadily risen since then.

How is the market "still tumbling down?" You ain't too bright, and lie a lot on the interweb, don't you, play'ah?

If you really believe that, then you're much dumber and more full of shit than I've ever imagined...
http://images.eonline.com/eol_images/Entire_Site/20081211/425.cruise.tom.tropicthunder.lc.121108.jpg



My "Cut and paste" (like your innocent of cut n pasting to support your position, but i'll leave that alone for the moment, as well as your intellectual saftey word "Strawman"), showed that yes, while indicators have been up , it's far to early to say anything has changed.

I "cut and paste" to establish a center piece of a thread, and a greater truth. Then I go to my opinion and prior knowledge. I don't resort to posting articles out-of-context to "prove a point" as argument sophistry like you and the clown you're partnering with here do.

So, the market dropped 50 points today, and consumers are a bit skittish? So fucking what? What does that mean? In the grand scheme of things, nothing. We're somewhere between the end of a recession (minor depression in the end I think) and a recovery. If you actually had one-fifth the supposed "expertise" you've claimed in the past, play'ah, you'd fucking know that! And wouldn't be humping the partisan dead horse....


I'm just saying your optimisim is premature. Throw Reagan in yet again if it makes you feel better, but in the here and now, there is far too much going wrong still to say that anything has changed conclusively, regardless of what prominent economists think. The market is still holding back, still unsold on the idea the recession is over.

It's not "optimism." It's fact. All economic indicators say the recession is ending. Did I say we're entering Candy Land? No. But the Market is fucking Bulls kiddo. It's a net gain and going to be about 10,000 within a month. If a Republican were in office, like McCain and Eye-Candy&#174;, you'd be creaming your shorts!

Nickdfresh
09-29-2009, 09:38 PM
Dude. The recession is far from over. Look at the job losses. ...

That has NOTHING to do with a "recession." Have you heard the term "jobless recovery?" The recession ending means that layoffs are slowing dramatically, not necessarily that everyone is getting rehired.

Now go back to your shivering paranoia over the Freemasons and Skull and Bones...

sadaist
09-29-2009, 10:15 PM
Have you heard the term "jobless recovery?"


Sounds like a political catch phrase to make people think they are better off than they really are.

Nickdfresh
09-29-2009, 10:25 PM
Sounds like a political catch phrase to make people think they are better off than they really are.

Actually, it's a standard economic term often used to describe the early years of the 1980s...

bueno bob
09-30-2009, 01:26 AM
Obama's biggest mistake since being elected? Trying to play centrist to Republicans. It's gained him nothing but grief. He needs to put his foot down HARD and issue a giant middle finger to the obstacles.

Still, I'm not disappointed with the job that he's done thus far, compared to where we'd be with McCain.

sadaist
09-30-2009, 02:29 AM
Obama's biggest mistake since being elected?

I don't see any big mistakes by Obama, but mainly because he hasn't done much. The stimulus I think will come back as a huge mistake, but too early to tell right now. The health care plan? Who knows. If he fails to get anything done it will be a mistake, if he accomplishes what he wants only time will tell. Afghanistan we'll have to see what his decision will be, which should be coming soon. Guantanamo he still has four months on his deadline, but that is looking like it won't happen on time.

hideyoursheep
09-30-2009, 03:20 AM
LMFAO!! Oh, okay supa' investa'. I forgot about your expertise.:biggrin: Yeah, the markets dropped last year about 6000 points, and have steadily risen since then.

How is the market "still tumbling down?" You ain't too bright, and lie a lot on the interweb, don't you, play'ah?

If you really believe that, then you're much dumber and more full of shit than I've ever imagined...
http://images.eonline.com/eol_images/Entire_Site/20081211/425.cruise.tom.tropicthunder.lc.121108.jpg



:lmao:


Finally someone else sees this pseudo-elitist thome-like retard for what he really is!

I bet his parents are pissed. If they paid forn his education they got fucked.


:lmao:

Nitro Express
09-30-2009, 03:53 AM
That has NOTHING to do with a "recession." Have you heard the term "jobless recovery?" The recession ending means that layoffs are slowing dramatically, not necessarily that everyone is getting rehired.

Now go back to your shivering paranoia over the Freemasons and Skull and Bones...

No jobs no cash flow. Jobless recovery? I have some ocean front property here in Wyoming to sell you. All the govt. and Federal Reserve are doing is pumping dollars into a broken system using future taxes as collateral. Let's ignore the trillions of dollars of toxic derivatives and commercial real estate debt. Sure, you can keep zombie banks and companies going and never see a real recovery or you can increase rates and get rid of the bad wood so the productive assets can grow.

Nitro Express
09-30-2009, 04:12 AM
What's going on is the Federal Reserve is debasing the US Dollar on purpose. The dollar will have to lose 80&#37; of it's value to make the US price competative with China so if you are invested in US currency you are going to take a bath. Then Japan who is our biggest creditor is having problems due to their bailout fiasco. On top of tIhat you have the US military inside of muslim countries that will spark more terrorism. Then you have Russia and China who feel we are trying to control the oil assets there. Then you have the Iran/Israel situation.

The main questions involved here are: Is the situation going to errupt into World War III? Where do I park my money? Where do I live? Who is going to be the winner in all this?

This is one reason billionares are leaving the US and moving to places like New Zealand, Singapore, and parts of South America. Some fear war, some fear govt. clampdown, some don't want to be ruined by inflation. Especially people who are well schooled in history and finance are concerned right now. Maybe the dumb sheep feel confident but those with brains and assets are concerned over the whole world situation right now.

hideyoursheep
09-30-2009, 04:26 AM
I didn't want to live forever anyway..

Fuct Jup
09-30-2009, 09:39 AM
Looks like everyone's seeing thru Obama's masqurade.

Sooner or later it is going to occur to Barack Obama that he is the president of the United States. As of yet, though, he does not act that way, appearing promiscuously on television and granting interviews like the presidential candidate he no longer is. The election has been held, but the campaign goes on and on. The candidate has yet to become commander in chief.

Take last week's Group of 20 meeting in Pittsburgh. There, the candidate-in-full commandeered the television networks and the leaders of Britain and France to give the Iranians a dramatic warning. Yet another of their secret nuclear facilities had been revealed and Obama, as anyone could see, was determined to do something about it -- just don't ask what.

The entire episode had a faux Cuban missile crisis quality to it. Something menacing had been discovered -- not Soviet missiles a mere 100 miles or so off Florida but an Iranian nuclear installation about 100 miles from Tehran. As befitting the occasion, various publications supplied us with nearly minute-by-minute descriptions of the crisis atmosphere earlier in the week at the U.N. session -- the rushing from room to room, presidential aides conferring, undoubtedly aware that they were in the middle of a book they had yet to write. I scanned the accounts looking for familiar names. Where was McNamara? Where was Bundy? Where, in fact, was the crisis?

In fact, there was none. The supposedly secret installation had been known to Western intelligence agencies -- Britain, France, the United States and undoubtedly Israel -- for several years. Its existence had been deduced by intelligence analysts from Iranian purchases abroad, and it was pinpointed sometime afterward. What had changed was that news of it had gone public. This happened not because Obama announced it but because the Iranians beat him to it after discovering that their cover was blown. They then turned themselves in to the International Atomic Energy Agency in Vienna and, as usual, said the site was intended for the peaceful use of nuclear energy. These Persians lie like a rug.

No one should believe Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Iran seems intent on developing a nuclear weapons program and the missiles capable of delivering them. This -- not the public revelations of a known installation -- is the real crisis, possibly one that can only end in war. It is entirely possible that Israel, faced with that chilling cliche -- an existential threat -- will bomb Iran's nuclear facilities. What would happen next is anyone's guess -- retaliation by Hamas and Hezbollah, an unprecedented spike in oil prices and then, after a few years or less, a resumption of Iran's nuclear program. Only the United States has the capability to obliterate Tehran's underground facilities. Washington may have to act.

For a crisis such as this, the immense prestige of the American presidency ought to be held in reserve. Let the secretary of state issue grave warnings. When Obama said in Pittsburgh that Iran is "going to have to come clean and they are going to have to make a choice," it had the sound of an ultimatum. But what if the Iranians don't? What then? A president has to be careful with such language. He better mean what he says.

The trouble with Obama is that he gets into the moment and means what he says for that moment only. He meant what he said when he called Afghanistan a "war of necessity" -- and now is not necessarily so sure. He meant what he said about the public option in his health-care plan -- and then again maybe not. He would not prosecute CIA agents for getting rough with detainees -- and then again maybe he would.

Most tellingly, he gave Congress an August deadline for passage of health-care legislation -- "Now, if there are no deadlines, nothing gets done in this town . . . " -- and then let it pass. It seemed not to occur to Obama that a deadline comes with a consequence -- meet it or else.

Obama lost credibility with his deadline-that-never-was, and now he threatens to lose some more with his posturing toward Iran. He has gotten into a demeaning dialogue with Ahmadinejad, an accomplished liar. (The next day, the Iranian used a news conference to counter Obama and, days later, Iran tested some intermediate-range missiles.) Obama is our version of a Supreme Leader, not given to making idle threats, setting idle deadlines, reversing course on momentous issues, creating a TV crisis where none existed or, unbelievably, pitching Chicago for the 2016 Olympics. Obama's the president. Time he understood that.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/09/28/AR2009092802484.html?nav=hcmodule

ELVIS
09-30-2009, 11:34 AM
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:elvis:

Nickdfresh
09-30-2009, 11:57 AM
Obama's biggest mistake since being elected? Trying to play centrist to Republicans. It's gained him nothing but grief. He needs to put his foot down HARD and issue a giant middle finger to the obstacles.

Still, I'm not disappointed with the job that he's done thus far, compared to where we'd be with McCain.

Pres. Obama is a centrist by nature, perhaps too much so. But no matter what he does, the tea-bagging-right keeps throwing the inflammatory bullshit of "commie-nazi" monikers...

I'm still waiting for "Up Fucted" to give us HIS actual opinion on Afghanistan and whether Obama is wrong for staying and fighting or we should essentially withdraw. But of course, he and his spoonfed, uneducated ilk don't really care either way...

Nickdfresh
09-30-2009, 11:58 AM
Looks like everyone's seeing thru Obama's masqurade.

...
washingtonpost.com (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/09/28/AR2009092802484.html?nav=hcmodule)


Do you actually have your own opinion? Or are you just another spoon-fed dolt that needs to be told what to think? Because it seems that 95&#37; of your posts are "Look, Obama sucks!" then it followed up by some cut and paste, Op-Eds spam that you've almost certainly misconstrued....

And Cohen is another APAC douche who thinks that the US should launch ICBMs at Iran as soon as possible and that only Israel can violate UN resolutions and maintain a large arsenal of nukes. Cohen was also one of the chicken-littles that supported the Iraq War over the phantom "WMDs" which got over 4000 US personnel and 600,000 Iraqis killed. This guy just fucking reeks of credibility... Another Neo Con tool... :liar::handjob:

ZahZoo
09-30-2009, 01:22 PM
That's ongoing and more needs to be done. But I think it's been like nine months or something and we're barely even out of the recession...

Well in those 9 months... where the heck are the federal regulators, investigators, etc..? There's hundreds or thousands of sub-prime mortgages out there granted to people who shouldn't have even qualified. The media can find these people all over the place... can't the feds too. Where's the Secretary of Commerce and what are they doing? The trails should be 10 lane super highways that the blind could follow...



Actually, he's gradually withdrawing from Iraq and US forces are no longer in the cities, and his Afghan policy is a major shift in emphasis from Bush --for better or for worse...

Nope all that was started & planned at the DoD before Obama took office...






I'd would, but you're all over his dance card, old man...

Ok the Gar redirect was a cheap shot... back at ya punk!! ;)

Nickdfresh
09-30-2009, 02:19 PM
Well in those 9 months... where the heck are the federal regulators, investigators, etc..? There's hundreds or thousands of sub-prime mortgages out there granted to people who shouldn't have even qualified. The media can find these people all over the place... can't the feds too. Where's the Secretary of Commerce and what are they doing? The trails should be 10 lane super highways that the blind could follow...

Maybe they shouldn't have been qualified, but I think there is a little bit of a problem of very lax lending laws and eunuch oversight. So what do they get prosecuted for? From my limited knowledge on lending, they may have skirted some laws in spirit, but managed to use loopholes to get around the letters of the law...


Nope all that was started & planned at the DoD before Obama took office...


Um no, Obama hastened the military contraction in Iraq and he is the one that decided to send more troops as a "surge" to Afghanistan...


Ok the Gar redirect was a cheap shot... back at ya punk!! ;)

I'm so very angry at you for that! :pullinghair:

Fuct Jup
09-30-2009, 02:42 PM
Do you actually have your own opinion? Or are you just another spoon-fed dolt that needs to be told what to think? Because it seems that 95&#37; of your posts are "Look, Obama sucks!" then it followed up by some cut and paste, Op-Eds spam that you've almost certainly misconstrued....:

this just in ... Obama sucks and has already failed in my opinion. He has fucked up the deficit, he has fucked up the economy by creating a stimulus that 80% if which still hasn't been spent to stimulate anything, he creates cash for clunkers that was supposed to cost 1 billion and it ended up costing 3 billion, he takes over 60% of GM (which will fail ), un-employment rate among young people is at 54% and as high as 18% in some states, he goes to battle for Chi-town for the 2016 Olympics when the city has a higher murder rate than New York (which is 2 1/2 times the size and resembles a 3rd world country), he wants to take away out right to bear arms, he is regulating salaries of private business (i.e. Banks), he wants to shove a health care package down the throats of Americans that nobody wants and wants to fine anyone who chooses not to have Healthcare (which is actually a tax), total inability to understand military matters - he goes on a boondoggle on the tax payer dime rather than address General McChrystal warning that the U.S. mission in Afghanistan may fail without more troops, he wants to push for a climate bill when we have one of the coldest summers on record. The list goes on and on and on and on... Your favorite Socialist is a douche bag.

FORD
09-30-2009, 03:00 PM
Did you ever consider the reality that bringing the Olympics to Chicago would be one Hell of an economic stimulus for that city and the surrounding area? You could put a lot of people to work with that plan. Maybe not 20, 30, 40 year career jobs, but at least some good pay for a while building whatever facilities, roads, whatever needs to be done in the years leading up to the games.

As for the gun bullshit, where were you when the BCE (via their racist Nazi BlacKKKwater proxy thugs) took guns away from the citizens of the New Orleans area in the aftermath of the Katrina disaster, when they arguably needed them the most.

No Democratic president has ever done that, and none ever would. It would be political suicide, naturally. But the jackbooted thugs of the NRA (Poppy Bush's words, not mine) would never call out a Repuke for that.

sadaist
09-30-2009, 03:32 PM
I just see that President Obama likes being a celebrity too much. Why the fuck does he have time to do commercials for TBS Late Night shows?

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/jIpXHWIdnds&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/jIpXHWIdnds&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Nickdfresh
09-30-2009, 10:49 PM
this just in ... Obama sucks and has already failed in my opinion.

Yes. But you're an idiot that can't use proper grammar and believed he "failed" before he was nominated...


He has fucked up the deficit,

How did he fuck up George Bush's awesome fucking deficit? I'd say the deficit is doing fine....


he has fucked up the economy...

Ha ha...classic nihilist utter fucking bullshit. The economy was self-fucked well before he took office. If you try to say anything else, you've already exposed yourself and a self-deluded jerk-off partisan, pugsly...


...by creating a stimulus that 80% if which still hasn't been spent to stimulate anything,

But yet, the economy is no longer headed for a death spiral, and any economist will tell you that the stimulus shortened it and resolved the worst effects...


...he creates cash for clunkers that was supposed to cost 1 billion and it ended up costing 3 billion,

So? It was the "stimulus money you just claimed "stimulated nothing." Well, in fact it 'stimulated' auto sales. It cost "$3 billion" because that was apportioned by congress after the first billion went in a couple of weeks which actually indicates success....


he takes over 60% of GM (which will fail ),

They're out of bankruptcy in almost record time. And they're doing okay and have a new product lineup coming...


..un-employment rate among young people is at 54% and as high as 18% in some states,

Nice job finding the most ominous jerkoff statistics you can. But does anyone give a shit about which 16 year olds have found work?

Which "some states" are 18% BTW?


..he goes to battle for Chi-town for the 2016 Olympics when the city has a higher murder rate than New York (which is 2 1/2 times the size and resembles a 3rd world country),

So? Why wouldn't we want the economic development and prestige of the Olympics? Other world leaders do the same thing? Do you hate America? Have you even been to New York? You sound like an Islamic terrorist in your description of it...


...he wants to take away out right to bear arms,

Fucking bullshit. When has he taken a single gun or bullet? Sales of guns are way up in fact...


...he is regulating salaries of private business (i.e. Banks),

You mean the same CEOs you cry like a bitch at for bailing out? Fucking great!!


he wants to shove a health care package down the throats of Americans that nobody wants and wants to fine anyone who chooses not to have Healthcare (which is actually a tax),

You're already paying far more than anyone in the world for health care, and he's trying to address a crisis. And everyone should have health care. He's not the one with the silly fucking fines...


total inability to understand military matters -

You have something in common with him then. And seeing as you voted for Bush, that's what you seem to want in a leader...


he goes on a boondoggle on the tax payer dime rather than address General McChrystal warning that the U.S. mission in Afghanistan may fail without more troops,

Um, the McChrystal thing is a public policy debate and most Americans are now against sending more troops to Afghanistan. And seeing as we're defending a gov't that engages in the same election fraud of the Iranians we're, you're, trained to hate, so fucking what if it "fails" at this point?


he wants to push for a climate bill when we have one of the coldest summers on record.

Oh, okay scientist. One summer should be the gauge for everything...


The list goes on and on and on and on... Your favorite Socialist is a douche bag.

Why would you call Woody Guthrie a douche bag? :(

jhale667
10-01-2009, 12:55 AM
Holy crap, Nick just went all scorched earth...:lmao:

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h217/jhale667/Insult%20comic/cute-puppy-pictures-ball-pwned-pupp.jpg

Fuct Jup
10-01-2009, 08:42 AM
Yes. But you're an idiot that can't use proper grammar and believed he "failed" before he was nominated.
your grammar can beat up my grammar. Take that fucking dildo out of your ass and give your prostate a break. :biggrin:
I know you don't like it when I paste FACTS but I included a few for you in my response to your BS.



How did he fuck up George Bush's awesome fucking deficit? I'd say the deficit is doing fine....

1.84 trillion deficit under Obama, it was half that under Bush.




But yet, the economy is no longer headed for a death spiral, and any economist will tell you that the stimulus shortened it and resolved the worst effects...
This also just in, "Stock futures fell ahead of the release of reports including the Institute for Supply Management's September manufacturing index and the Commerce Department's August data on personal income and consumption. The Labor Department has its weekly jobless claims report and the National Association of Realtors has pending home sales figures.

Reports this week have raised investors' doubts about the economic recovery and whether they should be continuing this year's rally. The Dow Jones industrial average lost nearly 30 points Wednesday, as a disappointing report on Midwestern manufacturing contributed to the bearish tone."
Stock futures weaken ahead of data fury - Yahoo! Finance (http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Stock-futures-weaken-ahead-of-apf-2632850236.html?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=main&asset=&ccode=)





So? It was the "stimulus money you just claimed "stimulated nothing." Well, in fact it 'stimulated' auto sales. It cost "$3 billion" because that was apportioned by congress after the first billion went in a couple of weeks which actually indicates success....Most of the autos sold from the cash for clunkers went to the Japenese manufactures, not american. This "stimulus package", funded by printing money, is going to produce one of the biggest jumps in inflation we have experienced in a long time (source: Milton Friedman's research; Buffet in a recent Newsweek interview). Unemployment is one of our biggest problems. The current "stimulus package" contains a relatively little true job "stimulus". No Jobs, no paycheck, no spending.



Nice job finding the most ominous jerkoff statistics you can. But does anyone give a shit about which 16 year olds have found work?
The number of young Americans without a job has exploded to 53.4 percent
The dead end kids (http://www.nypost.com/p/news/business/the_dead_end_kids_AnwaWNOGqsXMuIlGONNX1K)




So? Why wouldn't we want the economic development and prestige of the Olympics? Other world leaders do the same thing? Do you hate America? Have you even been to New York? You sound like an Islamic terrorist in your description of it...there are more pressing issue in the NOW that need to be addressed to help the economy, not something that will most probably not take place here 8 fucking years from now!




Fucking bullshit. When has he taken a single gun or bullet? Sales of guns are way up in fact...He voted for the ban of SEMI automatic firearms, that's why sales are up moron. People are gettiing everything they can before it becomes law.




You mean the same CEOs you cry like a bitch at for bailing out? Fucking great!!I believe in Capitalism, you didn't hear me bitch, Bitch!




You're already paying far more than anyone in the world for health care, and he's trying to address a crisis. And everyone should have health care. He's not the one with the silly fucking fines...When nobody wants it?
Health Care Reform - Rasmussen Reports™ (http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/september_2009/health_care_reform)




Um, the McChrystal thing is a public policy debate and most Americans are now against sending more troops to Afghanistan. And seeing as we're defending a gov't that engages in the same election fraud of the Iranians we're, you're, trained to hate, so fucking what if it "fails" at this point?
43 U.S. Troops Have Died in Afghanistan Since Gen. McChrystal Called for Reinforcements




Oh, okay scientist. One summer should be the gauge for everything...
Why would you call Woody Guthrie a douche bag? :(Because cooling would be the opposite of warming
Why we can all stop worrying about 'Global Warming' for a bit
Why we can all stop worrying about ‘Global Warming’ for a bit – Telegraph Blogs (http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100011055/why-we-can-all-stop-worrying-about-global-warming-for-a-bit/)

again, sorry for posting facts, but you and your ilk are living in a virtual world.

sadaist
10-01-2009, 09:46 AM
They're out of bankruptcy in almost record time. And they're doing okay and have a new product lineup coming...



G.M. to Close Saturn After Deal Fails

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/01/business/01auto.html?bl

Penske calls off deal to buy Saturn brand from General Motors - Drive On: A conversation about the cars and trucks we drive - USATODAY.com (http://content.usatoday.com/communities/driveon/post/2009/09/68500110/1)

ELVIS
10-01-2009, 10:39 AM
Saturn sucked anyway...

Bring back Pontiac!!!!

FORD
10-01-2009, 12:10 PM
Dumping Saturn would be a mistake. Since it's a relatively new brand name (mid 90's) it would be the perfect vehicle (pardon the pun) for GM to market new technologies (hybrids/electric/hydrogen cells/whatever) that they need to either start using or go out of business.