Obama will end "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy (eventually...) [Archive]

Va Beach VH Fan

10-10-2009, 10:59 PM

Now THIS will stop those silly health care debates !!!

Long overdue....

Obama Says He Will End 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' Policy (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/10/obama-says-he-will-end-do_n_316524.html)

WASHINGTON — President Barack Obama reaffirmed his campaign pledge to end the ban on homosexuals serving openly in the military in a speech Saturday, but offered no timetable or specifics for acting on that longstanding promise.

He acknowledged to a cheering crowd that some policy changes he promised on the campaign trail are not coming as quickly as they expected.

"I will end 'don't ask-don't tell,'" Obama said to a standing ovation from the crowd of about 3,000 at the annual dinner of the Human Rights Campaign, a gay civil rights advocacy group.

The law was passed by Congress in 1993 and signed by President Bill Clinton, who also promised to repeal the ban on homosexuals in the military but was blunted by opposition in the military and Congress. Obama said he's working with Pentagon and congressional leaders on ending the policy.

"We should not be punishing patriotic Americans who have stepped forward to serve the country," Obama said. "We should be celebrating their willingness to step forward and show such courage ... especially when we are fighting two wars.

Obama said it was no secret "our progress may be taking longer than we like." He followed this by asking supporters to trust his administration's course.

"I appreciate that many of you don't believe progress has come fast enough," Obama said. "Do not doubt the direction we are heading and the destination we will reach."

Some advocates said they already have heard Obama's promises – they just want to hear a timeline. Cleve Jones, a pioneer activist and creator of the AIDS Memorial Quilt, said Obama delivered a brilliant speech, but added "it lacked the answer to our most pressing question, which is when."

FORD

10-10-2009, 11:22 PM

Nickdfresh

10-11-2009, 11:30 AM

60 Minutes had a package on a gay US soldier-medic that was in Iraq. He was pretty much open about it and no one really cared and he was awarded several decorations. He mentioned he was gay several times, and again aside from some mild teasing or kidding around, no one cared and everyone thought highly of him. He returned to the US and they immediately told him he had to leave and was quietly given and Honorable Discharge and I don't think he minded all that much as he was getting out anyway and wasn't involuntary extended. But was still resentful. It is interesting that they just let him go and gave him an overall positive service rating and full benefits...

But it's a waste of resources to even gently kick out people because they're gay and I think most people don't really care much anymore and the stereotypical image of the super-homophobic sergeants is probably a thing of the past...

jhale667

10-11-2009, 04:55 PM

The line I liked best from Obama's speech - and it could also be applied to say, racism:

"None of us wants to be defined by one part of what makes us a whole."

Big Train

10-12-2009, 01:23 PM

He will end this policy once he ends the financial crisis, ends the wars, fixes immigration and earns his Nobel.

Which is to say never.

letsrock

10-12-2009, 07:32 PM

Anyone that wants to carry a gun and protect this country should be permitted.
That is close to how Howard Stern said it.

thome

10-12-2009, 09:41 PM

Scenario 1:

Ok!!! You Captured American DOG! Where are the Battle Plans!!!!!!!

Name : Reginal Tottleworth
Rank : Major
Serial Number : BR549

and I'm Gay!

Oh Magod! Can you nice fellows... get me a Zima or some light rum with a twist not so much ice now... be a dear....

Because, it is so important that you and everybody knows what I do with my PeePee.

Where are the condos?:hee:

Scenario 2:

Soldier!!! Why are your wearing pink bootlaces and why is your shirt tied in the front in a bow!!!

Because I am gay.

Soldier!! Is that bellie ring Goverment Issue?

:hee:

What do you gain by asking for special privleges/recognition ?

Once again who cares ?

Why do issues need attention ?

Do issues cloud the fact that no one is unique ?

Will soldiers demand, what ?

If it goes beyond, Dont Ask Don't Tell..will it demand special excemptions for the Gay Troops ?

Do I still like, That 70's Show ?

standin

10-13-2009, 02:06 AM

GAR

10-13-2009, 03:23 AM

Shouldn't they want gays to fight in wars, so they could get rid of more of them?

You're too old to stherve. Don't sthweat it sthister..

Va Beach VH Fan

10-13-2009, 09:46 AM

Homosexuals do have unique issues, Thome.
There are a lot of aspects that brings a need to be able to discuss one's partner; medical and legal.
In the military, family life is taken very seriously. And there are huge benefits that go along with having a family in the military. And serious sacrifices those families make for the military.
A person can get a dishonorable discharge for adultery in the Military.
Ask any commanding officer, if a troop with a headache personal life is an asset.
This is not about some imaginary Thome delusion of a world of "free thinkers". It is the military.
During a coarse of medical or legal advice, it would become necessary to discuss one's sexuality or one's mate.
Solid and stable home life is valued in the military.

Matter fact, most people value ethical home lives. And want to enjoy normalized stable lives and all the benefits that go with a solid secure life.

Beyond the enlisted, what is the ethical life for homosexual officers.
10 U.S.C. § 933
Again when moving through the ranks of a military career, a home life is evaluated.
Two or four year stints are not the issue.
Outside of the training why bother with the hassle of Military life and homosexuality.
And how much good training can you get from the military in 2-4 years?
If you can't manage to keep your self in check for a 2-4 year stint, homosexual or heterosexual, you are going to be out of the military sooner than later.

Ethics according to whom, though ??

While each of us has our own opinions about homosexuality in itself, the bottom line about gays serving in the military, as a 20-year, 9-day retiree, IMO is whether the man/woman can perform their duty, and that's it....

Again, IMO, those who think that guys who're gay are gonna run up to them with their cocks in the air in the cramped berthing areas on a ship, where you have up to 120 guys sleeping in an area the size of a big living room, are simply being unrealistic...

While I never served with anyone who I knew was gay, I'm sure in retrospect I served with some, I have no doubt....

ELVIS

10-13-2009, 10:14 AM

60 Minutes had a package on a gay US soldier-medic that was in Iraq. He was pretty much open about it and no one really cared and he was awarded several decorations.

For being a pooftah ??

Nickdfresh

10-13-2009, 10:34 AM

Homosexuals do have unique issues, Thome.
...

So does Thomo. Mention something about gays, and he's all over it like a Judy Garland convention...:biggrin:

Nickdfresh

10-13-2009, 10:35 AM

For being a pooftah ??

Why? do you get awards for being a failed heterosexual?:)

thome

10-13-2009, 11:23 AM

So does Thomo. Mention something about gays, and he's all over it like a Judy Garland convention...:biggrin:

As far as Military Servece...

Word is there are lots of MEN who turn bitch to get/or get out of, the attention they need.

Word has it down from the higher ups your a # MF'r.

A hard dick with a weapon.

That is deffinately what the Military needs "independant thinkers"....Pffffft

You sign the dotted line your a #, that is it.

Cry Baby Cock Sukkers are just that.

Scenario 3:

But Sargent I am a computer operator

{ With Gun Now go get in that hole and KILL That MF'R!!} add this to each line..

a radio operator
a cook
a deck hand
a secretary at HQ
a cryogenic aviation meck
a deisle meck
a backhoe operator for the engineers
the Pvt that raised the flag on post every day
a girl that files documents for the commisary

All are the same as saying you are gay, you get nothing at all when you are a #.

Scenario 4:

But Sarge, I am more emotional that the others because I am gay,.....yes pvt I understand now go get your ass in line and quit crying.

See if Charlie give a fukk about your NEEDS..

thome

10-13-2009, 11:33 AM

Homosexuals do have unique issues, Thome.
There are a lot of aspects that brings a need to be able to discuss one's asset.........

BULLSH!T!

Where's Blaze, at least she made sense?

P.S. Stop writing my -Alias- with a capital "T" it pisses me off, and represtents, a feeling implied, that you percieve some authoritarian stimga placed within my concepts presented. That you, quoting me, with capitalization, created a understanding that I am more than just thome.

thome

10-13-2009, 11:47 AM

Let me post this before Jesus does.

Everyone has special needs , it doesn't matter what, you/they/them/those/ shove, where, in whomever, or the size of the shoving thing.You are, not any different than anyone else. People seeking individuality, outside looking in, sometimes never realise they'r individuality comes from not being anything more than what, "always were".

ELVIS

10-13-2009, 11:56 AM

A soldier is a soldier!

Keep the don't ask, don't tell beceuse nobody really gives a rats ass!!!

Kill the enemy and SHUT THE HELL UP!!!

:elvis:

Guitar Shark

10-13-2009, 11:59 AM

How Christian of you...

Jesus Christ

10-13-2009, 12:46 PM

Verily, Matthew :(

ELVIS

10-13-2009, 12:51 PM

Soldiers are bred to kill, period...

standin

10-13-2009, 02:56 PM

I will write your name as I see fit, Thome.
One grammatical correction in your Beverly hillbillies’ homeschooling writings is minute.
Besides to change the style at your authority would be to give you the thing you think you are not, Authoritarian. You are authoritarian as any tyrant is. You are, to a certain extent, a cross between Manson and King Charles I... Now that the evocation is complete, I will continue to the heart of the subject.

Homosexuality is not a psychological issue of individuality displacement as you stated. It is a common anomaly of nature.

As for what you typed and misspelled bullshit about, I am not certain. You did not explain yourself, but rather went on a speech concerning the proper language rules of your board identification as this particular character portrayal of yours.

However, you inferred that the planning of life is unbelievable to you. The fact is most well adjusted persons of any proclivity plan, prepare, nourish, and care for themselves and their loved ones. Such behaviors require discussions, discussions with persons such as doctors, lawyers, supervisors and a vast array of people that serve families in a daily life. This is well-adjusted family life.

The military is not suited for maladjusted persons. The unstableness that maladjustment carries is not suitable to military existence.

The military is much more than a simple organization for war. The very basis of military is the movement of people and paraphernalia to achieve a goal. Those objectives very, case in point Fabian Gottlieb von Bellingshausen (a captain in the Russian Imperial Navy) was authorized an expedition to the South Polar Region in 1819. Bellingshausen was the first to confirm the sighting of Antarctica. The first person to realize that he had actually discovered a whole continent was Charles Wilkes, the commander of a United States Navy expedition.

The military is useful for many phenomenons beyond war. War is actually a poor handling of Military worth.

standin

10-13-2009, 03:01 PM

P.s. You do know that simply because you misspell a word, does not mean you are not using that word, correct?

It is not any better manors, better command of the language or less errant. The word is just simply misspelled.

Nickdfresh

10-13-2009, 07:44 PM

Soldiers are bred to kill, period...

Soldiers are trained to kill, not "bred."

And gay dudes can pull a trigger on an M-4/M-16 just as easily as anyone else...

FORD

10-13-2009, 07:50 PM

Soldiers are trained to kill, not "bred."

And gay dudes can pull a trigger on an M-4/M-16 just as easily as anyone else...

I think that's what the right wingers are really afraid of..... fags who can shoot them if they attempt a bashing.

Nickdfresh

10-13-2009, 09:07 PM

A great 60 Minutes piece on how US commanders are now reluctant to discharge Gays:

60 Minutes : Don't Ask, Don't Tell at TV.com (http://www.tv.com/video/g50MIzEZbi5KlysdC0hvWLnLR7aMLkGk/101/22529/dont-ask-dont-tell?o=cbs)

thome

10-13-2009, 09:29 PM

Soldiers are trained to kill, not "bred."

And gay dudes can pull a trigger on an M-4/M-16 just as easily as anyone else...

I bet you can.

Please leave your sordid sex life out of this thread.

BITEYOASS

10-13-2009, 10:03 PM

We had a few lesbians and some dude who looked like Freddie Mercury on steroids in my Aviation Ordnance unit. And no one gave a rats ass about their orientation! Especially since the shop consisted almost entirely the immoral majority from across america. :D

Nickdfresh

10-13-2009, 10:05 PM

.

I bet you can.

Please leave your sordid sex life out of this thread.

Um, I never shot an M-4 and pulling a trigger isn't sexual to me. But then, why don't you stop obsessing about every thread on gays? I mean, seriously, I'm not saying you're a closet fruit overcompensating like the typical cliche macho homophobe who turns out to be the gayest closet queen of all...but...

kwame k

10-13-2009, 11:21 PM

FORD

10-13-2009, 11:41 PM

Obama is the Commander and Chief but Congress will pass a Bill revoking "Don't Ask Don't Tell", right? Considering it was under Clinton that the bill first passed Congress and wasn't done as a Presidential mandate. So saying Obama will repeal "Don't Ask Don't Tell", is a misnomer....it'll be Congress that will pass a Bill.

Thats true, as far as the official law goes. However, as Commander in Chief, Obama could sign a stop loss order at any time, instructing the military to not enforce the "Don't Ask Don't Tell" law. Given that there are two wars going on in Muslim countries, and many of these discharged gays (most recently Lt. Daniel Choi) have been Arabic translators, it would be very easy for the President to justify this action, and not have to worry about the same worthless pieces of shit in Congress who are fucking up health care reform to stand in his way again on this issue.

thome

10-13-2009, 11:43 PM

Um, I never shot an M-4 and pulling a trigger isn't sexual to me. But then, why don't you stop obsessing about every thread on gays? I mean, seriously, I'm not saying you're a closet fruit overcompensating like the typical cliche macho homophobe who turns out to be the gayest closet queen of all...but...

I look great in a pair of fishnets, if that's what your saying..?

But, that doesn't mean I can instantly design fashionable things, or be a judge on dancing with the stars, or that I want special recognition/attention for my -Kink-.

It's just Damn SEXY!

;)

hideyoursheep

10-14-2009, 04:12 AM

Ethics according to whom, though ??

While each of us has our own opinions about homosexuality in itself, the bottom line about gays serving in the military, as a 20-year, 9-day retiree, IMO is whether the man/woman can perform their duty, and that's it....

Again, IMO, those who think that guys who're gay are gonna run up to them with their cocks in the air in the cramped berthing areas on a ship, where you have up to 120 guys sleeping in an area the size of a big living room, are simply being unrealistic...

While I never served with anyone who I knew was gay, I'm sure in retrospect I served with some, I have no doubt....

Gays are already in the mix. What they do in private is of their concern. But if you think openly allowing gays in the military is going to NOT bring about problems such as jerking off over someone's face while they sleep in their bunks, or showing favoritism towards a gay "friend" by patching his or her wound before someone else who should take priority due to severity, or worse, a lover's spat while armed with a SAW....fuck that! Those types of personal emotions don't need to be carried into a combat situation. They can stay in the rear with the gear. There's a reason for segregated barracks. How do you segregate the same sex?

hideyoursheep

10-14-2009, 04:16 AM

Soldiers are bred to kill, period...

What a stupid fucking thing to say.:fufu:

Va Beach VH Fan

10-14-2009, 08:52 AM

Gays are already in the mix. What they do in private is of their concern. But if you think openly allowing gays in the military is going to NOT bring about problems such as jerking off over someone's face while they sleep in their bunks, or showing favoritism towards a gay "friend" by patching his or her wound before someone else who should take priority due to severity, or worse, a lover's spat while armed with a SAW....fuck that! Those types of personal emotions don't need to be carried into a combat situation. They can stay in the rear with the gear. There's a reason for segregated barracks. How do you segregate the same sex?

Sheep, do you realize that those type of wacky "problems" occur each and every day NOW ??

Part of the reason I didn't stay in past 20 years was because the last half of my career I was forced into being a glorified babysitter/marriage counselor/court witness/housing liaison/etc....

And as far as favoritism, shit, you know as well as I do, that occurs everywhere, military or otherwise...

ELVIS

10-14-2009, 08:57 AM

What a stupid fucking thing to say.:fufu:

That's what your momma said...

knuckleboner

10-14-2009, 08:13 PM

hideyoursheep

10-15-2009, 03:55 AM

Sheep, do you realize that those type of wacky "problems" occur each and every day NOW ?? Yeah, I'm aware that strange shit happens all the time that never gets publicized. But why increase the chances? Wasn't there an incident involving an explosion on some ship because of some gay quarrel years ago? Same sex, opposite sex, married couples...it's a distraction. Throw those type of emotions in there and you have problems.

Part of the reason I didn't stay in past 20 years was because the last half of my career I was forced into being a glorified babysitter/marriage counselor/court witness/housing liaison/etc.......I'm not sure I follow you here....are you talking about domestic disputes in Post Housing or what? That's not what I'm talking about at all.

I'm talking about guys joining the military, openly gay, being thrown in with others straight soldiers, MALES ONLY, who rarely if ever see women, being forced to live, eat, shower, sleep and fight with someone who is OPENLY GAY. Even though they're all men, they all have needs, right? So how long of a tour will it take for this gay man to develop a man-crush on one of the guys he's been forced to live with for so long? It's a toxic situation. There are enough oddballs in there whose bread ain't wrapped too tight as it is.

And as far as favoritism, shit, you know as well as I do, that occurs everywhere, military or otherwise...

Well, the favoritism scenario is just a hypothetical...the "standing over someone's roommate and jerking off while watching him sleep" is not. It actually happened to someone I knew....thank God it wasn't me...He was in Hindquarters Troop anyway, so...to us they were BOTH gay already.:biggrin:

Nonetheless, a soldier (or sailor, etc..) shouldn't be subjected to that type of shit. It's not Folsom, it's the Armed Forces, knowwhutImean? So how does allowing gays in prevent such things? They have to stay SOMEWHERE? Do we make all barracks co-ed? I don't see that happening.

hideyoursheep

10-15-2009, 03:57 AM

That's what your momma said...

You cajun Kook!!:tongue0011:

ZahZoo

10-15-2009, 09:50 AM

You cajun Kook!!:tongue0011:

Has it been determined if our distiguished collegue from Louisianna is Cajun, Creole or just generic mutt coon-ass?

There is a difference you know...

ELVIS

10-15-2009, 09:58 AM

Well, I'm of combined german and american indian persuasion and I was born in Vallejo...

Nickdfresh

10-15-2009, 01:52 PM

Yeah, I'm aware that strange shit happens all the time that never gets publicized. But why increase the chances? Wasn't there an incident involving an explosion on some ship because of some gay quarrel years ago? Same sex, opposite sex, married couples...it's a distraction. Throw those type of emotions in there and you have problems.

I'm not sure I follow you here....are you talking about domestic disputes in Post Housing or what? That's not what I'm talking about at all.

I'm talking about guys joining the military, openly gay, being thrown in with others straight soldiers, MALES ONLY, who rarely if ever see women, being forced to live, eat, shower, sleep and fight with someone who is OPENLY GAY. Even though they're all men, they all have needs, right? So how long of a tour will it take for this gay man to develop a man-crush on one of the guys he's been forced to live with for so long? It's a toxic situation. There are enough oddballs in there whose bread ain't wrapped too tight as it is.

Well, the favoritism scenario is just a hypothetical...the "standing over someone's roommate and jerking off while watching him sleep" is not. It actually happened to someone I knew....thank God it wasn't me...He was in Hindquarters Troop anyway, so...to us they were BOTH gay already.:biggrin:

Nonetheless, a soldier (or sailor, etc..) shouldn't be subjected to that type of shit. It's not Folsom, it's the Armed Forces, knowwhutImean? So how does allowing gays in prevent such things? They have to stay SOMEWHERE? Do we make all barracks co-ed? I don't see that happening.

You should really watch this 60 Minutes segment. No one, or at least the vast majority, don't seem to give a fuck. And you do get to see women in the Army, contrary to popular belief. Open barracks are almost a thing of the past (largely replaced by dorm style rooms I think), most professional soldiers are married, and you don't have to worry about a gay-guy screwing ones' wife when one is deployed (which seemed to happen a lot as I recall a big seedy side cheating, divorces, and marriages of convenience...)

60 Minutes : Don't Ask, Don't Tell at TV.com (http://www.tv.com/video/g50MIzEZbi5KlysdC0hvWLnLR7aMLkGk/101/22529/dont-ask-dont-tell?o=cbs)

Va Beach VH Fan

10-15-2009, 03:14 PM

Yeah, I'm aware that strange shit happens all the time that never gets publicized. But why increase the chances? Wasn't there an incident involving an explosion on some ship because of some gay quarrel years ago? Same sex, opposite sex, married couples...it's a distraction. Throw those type of emotions in there and you have problems.

I'm not sure I follow you here....are you talking about domestic disputes in Post Housing or what? That's not what I'm talking about at all.

I'm talking about guys joining the military, openly gay, being thrown in with others straight soldiers, MALES ONLY, who rarely if ever see women, being forced to live, eat, shower, sleep and fight with someone who is OPENLY GAY. Even though they're all men, they all have needs, right? So how long of a tour will it take for this gay man to develop a man-crush on one of the guys he's been forced to live with for so long? It's a toxic situation. There are enough oddballs in there whose bread ain't wrapped too tight as it is.

Well, the favoritism scenario is just a hypothetical...the "standing over someone's roommate and jerking off while watching him sleep" is not. It actually happened to someone I knew....thank God it wasn't me...He was in Hindquarters Troop anyway, so...to us they were BOTH gay already.:biggrin:

Nonetheless, a soldier (or sailor, etc..) shouldn't be subjected to that type of shit. It's not Folsom, it's the Armed Forces, knowwhutImean? So how does allowing gays in prevent such things? They have to stay SOMEWHERE? Do we make all barracks co-ed? I don't see that happening.

Well, I can only speak for the Navy, but I just don't see that gay men are gonna be overcome with any more hornyness that any other Sailor already has....

By the way, there are women on every ship nowadays except for subs... There's fucking going on all over the place, even though they don't you to know that...

I dunno, I just don't see the danger that others do....

hideyoursheep

10-16-2009, 03:59 AM

You should really watch this 60 Minutes segment. No one, or at least the vast majority, don't seem to give a fuck. And you do get to see women in the Army, contrary to popular belief. Open barracks are almost a thing of the past (largely replaced by dorm style rooms I think), most professional soldiers are married, and you don't have to worry about a gay-guy screwing ones' wife when one is deployed (which seemed to happen a lot as I recall a big seedy side cheating, divorces, and marriages of convenience...)
Dorm style rooms? Is there more than 1 soldier in those rooms? Are there showers in those rooms? Do you have to change clothes in front of your roomate who, by the way, just happens to be attracted to OTHER MEN?!
We're never going to agree on this one.

For fuck sakes man, there weren't even doors on the shitters in some places.

Forget about garrison for a minute. Think about being in the boonies for a month at a time...or 3 months.

And the ONLY time I saw a woman in the Army was in the rear. An MP or medic, or supply, maybe S-3, but never in a line unit in any capacity.

hideyoursheep

10-16-2009, 04:00 AM

By the way, there are women on every ship nowadays except for subs... There's fucking going on all over the place, even though they don't you to know that...

....

That's why I've always been jealous of you guys.:biggrin:

Va Beach VH Fan

10-16-2009, 10:57 AM

For fuck sakes man, there weren't even doors on the shitters in some places.

That's the way it was for us in boot camp in San Diego in '83...

Talk about awkward...

BITEYOASS

10-16-2009, 11:42 AM

That's why I've always been jealous of you guys.:biggrin:

Trust me, the navy women don't look so hot.

As for female Marines, rather dykish if you ask me.

Seshmeister

10-16-2009, 12:06 PM

Well, I can only speak for the Navy, but I just don't see that gay men are gonna be overcome with any more hornyness that any other Sailor already has....

By the way, there are women on every ship nowadays except for subs... There's fucking going on all over the place, even though they don't you to know that...

I dunno, I just don't see the danger that others do....

I would think that most wives and girlfriends would feel a lot better if there were no women on ships.

Va Beach VH Fan

10-16-2009, 01:27 PM

Trust me, the navy women don't look so hot.

As for female Marines, rather dykish if you ask me.

After a few months at sea though, they start looking better and better.... ;)

Nitro Express

10-16-2009, 01:45 PM

Well the first thing he needs to do is kick the BCE stooges out of the Department of Defense. Why the Hell did he keep Gates on anyway?

Better than Rummy? Who isn't?

But that's no reason to keep him. Let alone a ridiculous policy. Gays are serving openly in the military pretty much everywhere else, so I don't know what the problem is.

Even the homophobes should be over this one. Shouldn't they want gays to fight in wars, so they could get rid of more of them?

Because my friend, the Democrat and Republican parties are the same. Oh they may sell a different product but they are bought and paid for by the same bankers and corporations. The powers that be want more war, more power for them through monopolies and big government. More war and consolidation of assets and power is what both the Democrats and Republicans give us. In other words, both sides have sold out. As time goes on Obama will look more like Bush. He won't pull troops out, he will expand the wars. He will expand The Patriot Act and add more govt. controls. I think next year he will push hard to put the US under UN mandates and leap frog our own sovergn laws. I really hope this guy isn't the rotten sell out I think he is but he's been a disaster so far. It's like Bush never left.

Nitro Express

10-16-2009, 01:52 PM

For me it's all about the US Dollar. We all know it's being devalued on purpose. It's the only card Bernake can play. If he raises rates he crashes the economy. Other central banks around the world are doing the same. So all this money is going into the financial markets and the banks are making record profits. Remember the banks own our government and so they had this all figured out. Now they take this money and buy real assets like agricultural land, gold, water rights, energy assets, distribution systems.

While this is going on they are trying to clamp down hard on the little guy. The little guy is still losing his/her job and being foreclosed on in record numbers. The bankers know they have to grab real political power before the currency collapses. This is why they are trying to ram big government up our ass and hard sell it as a good thing that will save the world. It's a failing system desperately grabbing all the power they can because they know they are failing.

Nitro Express

10-16-2009, 02:00 PM

There have always been gays in the military. There are also people who are going to still hate gays. Maybe the policy should be keep your sex life to yourself. Keep it in the bedroom. You might get beat up and killed for fucking the other guys girlfriend. If you keep it in the bedroom, he won't know about it.

kwame k

10-16-2009, 02:03 PM

Thats true, as far as the official law goes. However, as Commander in Chief, Obama could sign a stop loss order at any time, instructing the military to not enforce the "Don't Ask Don't Tell" law. Given that there are two wars going on in Muslim countries, and many of these discharged gays (most recently Lt. Daniel Choi) have been Arabic translators, it would be very easy for the President to justify this action, and not have to worry about the same worthless pieces of shit in Congress who are fucking up health care reform to stand in his way again on this issue.

I agree, FORD. Why Obama feels the need to go to congress is a head scratcher but I do understand his wanting to involve congress in these types of matters. Considering he has a majority in congress this and other bills/laws/amendments should be a slam dunk. I am just amazed how the Dems are pissing away their majority. 2010 is right around the corner and with the Repukes wealth the Dems majority may be at an end.

kwame k

10-16-2009, 02:06 PM

and they're trying...

h.r. 1283 (http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.R.1283:)

of course, i don't see too many republicans cosponsoring it. maybe it's just easier to criticize somebody's immoral lifestyle than it is to commend them for wanting to serve their country...

Seems like the Repukes strategy is to be opposed to anything the Dems throw out there.......regardless if it helps or hurts the American people who elected them.

Nitro Express

10-16-2009, 02:48 PM

The religious right would love nothing more than to have gays join the military. That way they get sent out of the country into a war zone and possibly get killed. Military service for gays is a homo phobe dream.

ELVIS

10-16-2009, 02:52 PM

And your mom sucks cock!!!

Why would you assume such a thing ??

Satan

10-16-2009, 03:04 PM

And your mom sucks cock!!!

Quit stealing my lines, Mr. Presley!! http://www.cosgan.de/images/smilie/teufel/d040.gif

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kwame k

10-16-2009, 03:07 PM

Were you a creative consoultant on that movie, Your Most Unholiness?

ELVIS

10-16-2009, 03:37 PM

No, FORD was not...

kwame k

10-16-2009, 03:47 PM

...isn't that a tad harsh, calling FORD The Devil?

Nickdfresh

10-16-2009, 03:50 PM

Dorm style rooms? Is there more than 1 soldier in those rooms? Are there showers in those rooms? Do you have to change clothes in front of your roomate who, by the way, just happens to be attracted to OTHER MEN?!
We're never going to agree on this one.

For fuck sakes man, there weren't even doors on the shitters in some places.

A lot changed since the Korean War era. :)

Forget about garrison for a minute. Think about being in the boonies for a month at a time...or 3 months.

And the ONLY time I saw a woman in the Army was in the rear. An MP or medic, or supply, maybe S-3, but never in a line unit in any capacity.

Right, well, I'm pretty sure some gay soldier would just want to get into your pants after you haven't showered for a month...

ELVIS

10-16-2009, 05:57 PM

BTW, Obama is said to be closing Gitmo...eventually...

letsrock

10-16-2009, 07:26 PM

kwame k

10-16-2009, 07:37 PM

BTW, Obama is said to be closing Gitmo...eventually...
He's sure not getting any help from across the isle......

By The Associated Press – Thu Oct 15, 9:29 pm ET
The 224-193 roll call Thursday by which the House rejected a Republican effort to block the transfer of Guantanamo detainees to the U.S. for trial.
A "yes" vote is a vote to reject the measure.
Voting yes were 25 Democrats and 168 Republicans.
Voting no were 223 Democrats and 1 Republican.
Link (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091016/ap_on_go_co/us_house_rollcall_guantanamo_prisoners;_ylt=AvOjdG zSTTLeRw5zwHT2wQ08KbIF;_ylu=X3oDMTNkMDk1bmRyBGFzc2 V0A2FwLzIwMDkxMDE2L3VzX2hvdXNlX3JvbGxjYWxsX2d1YW50 YW5hbW9fcHJpc29uZXJzBHBvcwMyNwRzZWMDeW5fcGFnaW5hdG Vfc3VtbWFyeV9saXN0BHNsawNob3VzZXJvbGxjYWw-)

Nickdfresh

10-16-2009, 07:40 PM

BTW, Obama is said to be closing Gitmo...eventually...

If only we could close it sooner and send 'em all to the Bayou...

Incidentally, they're talking about shipping it to Michigan, which would benefit by having federal buck$ and high paying prison corrections officers positions...

letsrock

10-16-2009, 07:42 PM

Close it and kill them. America is good at killing.
We always have been.

thome

10-16-2009, 07:58 PM

If only we could close it sooner and send 'em all to the Bayou...

Incidentally, they're talking about shipping it to Michigan, which would benefit by having federal buck$ and high paying prison corrections officers positions...

CLOSE GITMO NOW!!!

and send all the prisoners/detainees somewhere else.

Wow?

How's this; keep GITMO and keep the detainees right where they are.

Off this continent.

Who give 6fukks where thier rights are violated....?

I guess them thar, dems/libs care enough to spend a couple 100 mil shipping them to the "same thing" spread all over the country.

Classic tax base wasting Douchbaggery .

thome

10-16-2009, 08:07 PM

Close it and kill them. America is good at killing.
We always have been.

ShhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaddddddaaaaaaaaaaaaaP!! U

Have we got the layout for the best of Rothies for this year? I vote this post the "most assinine".

First you pose the thought that you want to "personally advocate", of Destroying thier lives.

Then you end your statement with; that -Americans- are thoughtless killers.

Silliest sh!t ev'a

Nickdfresh

10-16-2009, 08:07 PM

Close it and kill them. America is good at killing.
We always have been.

Not before they receive a fair trial with all of their civil rights. Something America is also supposed to be good at!

Nickdfresh

10-16-2009, 08:12 PM

ShhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaddddddaaaaaaaaaaaaaP!! U

Have we got the layout for the best of Rothies for this year? I vote this post the "most assinine".

First you pose the thought that you want to "personally advocate", of Destroying thier lives.

Then you end your statement with; that -Americans- are thoughtless killers.

Silliest sh!t ev'a

So you're offended that someone wants to kill them all, but you don't give a shit is they have "rights" either? WTF do you think happens?

thome

10-16-2009, 08:16 PM

Not before they receive a fair trial with all of their civil rights. Something America is also supposed to be good at!

What are "THEIR" civil right Sukka ?

Do you mean the civil rights of all americans...? .

How's this why don't we prosecute them by thier own countries judicial system rules.

Oh, too bad ......................they would have been beheaded on day one.

Isn't that what thier countries give to americans and other countries persons detained by the Mohammedites?

Civil Rights, AhhAhhhaaaaaaaahhhh Ha Ha Ha!!!

Nickdfresh

10-16-2009, 08:33 PM

What are "THEIR" civil right Sukka ?

Do you mean the civil rights of all americans...? .

I mean either the Geneva Convention or the rights afforded to criminal defendants under US law...

How's this why don't we prosecute them by thier own countries judicial system rules.

Sure. Right after we send them back there....

Oh, too bad ......................they would have been beheaded on day one.

Like where? Saudi Arabia?

Isn't that what thier countries give to americans and other countries persons detained by the Mohammedites?

I wouldn't know. Have any examples?

Civil Rights, AhhAhhhaaaaaaaahhhh Ha Ha Ha!!!

Yeah, I know. You hate the US Constitution and America too. Why do you hate America?

Nickdfresh

10-16-2009, 08:35 PM

Dupe.

thome

10-16-2009, 09:06 PM

I mean either the Geneva Convention or the rights afforded to criminal defendants under US law...

Then you should have said that the above hasn't a damn thing to do with the civil rights amendment.

Sure. Right after we send them back there....

Huh..?

Like where? Saudi Arabia?

Are they all Saudis?

I wouldn't know. Have any examples?

You goggle it, I have clear enough memories. I don't need a lesson. You do.

Yeah, I know. You hate the US Constitution and American too. Why do you hate America?

Why do you give the power and true vision of the US Constitution, in refference to a jaggof in the joint? I am sure there are 1 million other completely innocent men and women doing time that are completely innocent.
Have you no concern for those Humans...? Or do you only proffess the innocents of just the ones who have sworn to destroy liberty.

With absolutely no goddam knowlege of who, or what, they are doing, are charged with, the evidence against ...just what you hear Wolf Blitzer say..?

I mean either the Geneva Convention or the rights afforded to criminal defendants under US law...

They have all of those rights and more, food, medical and the oportunity to reflect as the world watches in anticipation of what they can become, or what they want to do with their lives.

Sure. Right after we send them back there....

You call the Consolate and see how many are wanted back. Like their country of origin gives a fukk about them..

Yeah, I know. You hate the US Constitution and American too. Why do you hate America?

Yeah, I know. You hate the US Constitution and American too. Why do you hate America?[/

I swore once to uphold it in the boyscouts, and I have ever since.
I perhaps only hate states rights, that attempt to superseed it's authority.

See the Al Franken thread.

Nickdfresh

10-16-2009, 09:27 PM

I swore once to uphold it in the boyscouts, and I have ever since.

Except when it counts as more than a piece of paper on the wall...

I perhaps only hate states rights, that attempt to superseed it's authority.

See the Al Franken thread.

What would that have to do with Franken's thread? What about the Feds exceeding states' rights?

thome

10-16-2009, 09:59 PM

[QUOTE=Nickdfresh;1392177]Except when it counts as more than a piece of paper on the wall...

QUOTE]

I have a full size velum copy of the Constitution.

As I would say, every good american should, do you..?

It becomes more than just text when you can hold it in your hands.

Perahps you should put out the 8bucks.

But, you would probably think the money goes to increasing the BCE's world domination strategy started by Cain .

Seshmeister

10-16-2009, 10:11 PM

If you stopped treating the 18th century writing of a bunch of English slave traders as a holy text maybe you could move on a bit.

Nitro Express

10-16-2009, 11:24 PM

This was brought about due to the AIDS scare. The thought was lets say your in combat and you get shot or hurt. And the medic has some scratches. Doesnt matter who has AIDS. Either way if the blood makes a connection then now you have the potential for another infected person. So with "dont ask dont tell" it was a way to just leave it alone.

Nobody really cared if Joey was gay or not.
Why is it that so many threads turn into something Gay?
Maybe Obama can end that?

AIDS is not a homosexual disease. Anyone can have HIV or AIDS. I remember being in biology in college and the professor was telling us it was going to bankrupt insurance companies and nations. It never got to that extreme in most places, Africa being the exception.

Nitro Express

10-16-2009, 11:29 PM

Nitro Express

10-16-2009, 11:30 PM

Fucking someone in the barracks is bad manners. Gay or straight. I'm sure it happens but no fucking in the barracks!

Seshmeister

10-16-2009, 11:40 PM

AIDS is not a homosexual disease. Anyone can have HIV or AIDS. I remember being in biology in college and the professor was telling us it was going to bankrupt insurance companies and nations. It never got to that extreme in most places, Africa being the exception.

Yeah I remember 20 years ago a professor lecturing us that in the next few years everyone would know a few people who died of AIDS.

Fortunately it was harder to spread than they thought back then.

If it wasn't for the lunatic superstitious cloud person worshipping 'every sperm is sacred' fuckwits I think we could have kept it down to the unlucky early victims even in Africa.

thome

10-17-2009, 12:15 AM

If you stopped treating the 18th century writing of a bunch of English slave traders as a holy text maybe you could move on a bit.

Name one composer of any of the text of the US Constitusion that owned a "Slave Trading Company" as in ships and the docks to load them off onto.

Sounds more like Scotsman type work.

and who said Holy..?

It is a document to free up the common man to persue the things that make the day go by smoother.

You got your god and country all bassackwards.

standin

10-17-2009, 12:41 AM

Bad manners is bad manners. A gay dude feeling your ass is not different than a guy grabbing a girl's ass. I mean is it really the military's business what you did on leave? Some things are best unknown. Unless someone is abused and violated against their will, it's best to leave the exchanges of fluids and who stuck what where in the none of your business file.

Fucking someone in the barracks is bad manners. Gay or straight. I'm sure it happens but no fucking in the barracks!

Exactly,
Throw those donkeys out. Be it male, female or anywhere in-between.
Tolerance of Unwanted, uninvited, non-consensual bully geezers, male or female, should be of the shameful past.
And geezers that break the rules for sexual relations are red flags of stupidity.

Seshmeister

10-17-2009, 01:08 AM

Name one composer of any of the text of the US Constitusion that owned a "Slave Trading Company" as in ships and the docks to load them off onto.

Sounds more like Scotsman type work.

and who said Holy..?

It is a document to free up the common man to persue the things that make the day go by smoother.

You got your god and country all bassackwards.

That's the craziest fucking distinction I've ever heard.

The English slave owners were ok as long as they didn't personally own a dock to offload them at? :D

What in the name of Jesus sufferin cunt are you talkin about? :)

How many slaves would Washington have to rape before it became relevant?

You stand on the shoulders of people that stole a country, slaughtered it's population and then built it up through slavery. When it ran into an economic depression it was then saved by a war economy which it continues with today.

That's not your responsibility or mine but let's just fucking lose the bullshit nostalgia please...

thome

10-17-2009, 01:15 AM

[QUOTE=Seshmeister;1392224]

You stand on the shoulders of people that stole a country, slaughtered it's population and then built it up through slavery. When it ran into an economic depression it was then saved by a war economy which it continues with today.QUOTE]

and his balls finally dropped and lil' timmy became a man he saw the world in it's truth of his own heritages past and saw, yeay tho, that he was no longer blind..

hideyoursheep

10-17-2009, 04:55 AM

Trust me, the navy women don't look so hot.

As for female Marines, rather dykish if you ask me.

At least they're fuckin'!

:biggrin:

hideyoursheep

10-17-2009, 04:57 AM

After a few months at sea though, they start looking better and better.... ;)

I've heard of beer goggles....

:umm:

Sea goggles?:hee:

hideyoursheep

10-17-2009, 05:12 AM

A lot changed since the Korean War era. :)

Ya dick. :D Reagan - Bush era. On a side note, I heard during the Clinton years if a DI was giving you what you thought was too much shit, you could pull a "time out" card on him, and he'd have to take it easy on you for a while.

Jesus....talk about getting soft. Do they still do that shit? I dunno...they seemed to have lowered quite a few standards over the past decade. I'm not a supporter of that either.

To be honest, I don't think that much has changed in some parts of the world.

Right, well, I'm pretty sure some gay soldier would just want to get into your pants after you haven't showered for a month... He'd be ripe too...maybe a gloved reach-around would be in order?

hideyoursheep

10-17-2009, 05:18 AM

That's the way it was for us in boot camp in San Diego in '83...

Talk about awkward...

Yeah..I'm going into some strange territory here, but I never felt as uncomfortable showering in the 8 man waterbox as I did taking a deuce with some guy sitting directly across from me reading the Stars and Stripes.

:bath::toilet-humor:

hideyoursheep

10-17-2009, 05:24 AM

Fucking someone in the barracks is bad manners. Gay or straight. I'm sure it happens but no fucking in the barracks!

Gay fucking in the barracks will be a way of maintaining physical fitness if this goes through.

Not sure the hetero crowd will appreciate it.

I just don't see it happening.

hideyoursheep

10-17-2009, 05:29 AM

Fucking someone in the barracks is bad manners. Gay or straight. I'm sure it happens but no fucking in the barracks!
If you're in good with the CQ.....it's like Motel fucking 6!:biggrin:

hideyoursheep

10-17-2009, 05:39 AM

Trust me, the navy women don't look so hot.. Catherine Bell is a piece of ASS!

Oh, shit...she's an Army Wife now....which means she put on about 100 lbs.

As for female Marines, rather dykish if you ask me.
Well, yeah...I mean, any chick who WANTS to play grunt for 13 weeks must be a little bit butch. Whereas for Army chicks it's only 8... I think?

Air Force chicks, man.....not bad.:doggystyle:

Nickdfresh

10-17-2009, 07:28 AM

Catherine Bell is a piece of ASS!

Oh, shit...she's an Army Wife now....which means she put on about 100 lbs.

I thought she was a Scientologist, which instantly kills any hot-factor...

.

Va Beach VH Fan

10-17-2009, 01:03 PM

I've heard of beer goggles....

:umm:

Sea goggles?:hee:

Oh yeah, absolutely....

PLUS, if you go overseas, you'll see that some of your shipmates don't want to have anything to do with the local women, and instead turn to the American women, who may be relatively ugly, but they're getting laid....

hideyoursheep

10-17-2009, 03:47 PM

I thought she was a Scientologist, which instantly kills any hot-factor...

.
Hey man, I don't want to live with her, I just want... Bang-Bang-Bang!

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hideyoursheep

10-17-2009, 03:51 PM

Oh yeah, absolutely....

PLUS, if you go overseas, you'll see that some of your shipmates don't want to have anything to do with the local women, and instead turn to the American women, who may be relatively ugly, but they're getting laid....
Just how many women are on these ships?

Va Beach VH Fan

10-17-2009, 04:13 PM

Just how many women are on these ships?

I don't have figures available, but guestimating that there would be about three dozen or so on small ships like frigates up to 500 on aircraft carriers...

Nitro Express

10-18-2009, 06:18 AM

Catherine Bell is a piece of ASS!

Oh, shit...she's an Army Wife now....which means she put on about 100 lbs.

Well, yeah...I mean, any chick who WANTS to play grunt for 13 weeks must be a little bit butch. Whereas for Army chicks it's only 8... I think?

Air Force chicks, man.....not bad.:doggystyle:

The Israel Defense Forces have some hot chicks. But of course men and women have to do their mandatory time in the service in Israel. I dated a chick in the IDF and I remember banging her with her Uzi hanging on the bedpost. That thing went everywhere. To the movies. To the beach. They hang onto them because if the govt. has to reissue you another one, you have to do another three years in the service. Now it seems like they carry those little short M-16 carbines. You don't see the Uzis as much anymore.

FORD

10-18-2009, 01:04 PM

Nickdfresh

10-18-2009, 05:35 PM

I'm no gun expert, but it seems I've heard that the Uzi is a little less accurate than the AK-47 or the M-16. Still it seems odd that Israel would dump their own invention for an import, rather than just improve the Uzi.

Plus, if you remember the video footage of the Reagan assassination attempt, the coolest thing in all of that chaos is when the Secret Service agents whipped out the Uzis from under their fucking jackets. You can't do that with an M-16.

It's not about accuracy, it's about range and weight...

The Uzi is a different class of weapon. The Uzi, being a "submachine-gun" fires a (9X19mm) pistol cartridge, which is lower velocity and larger than a rifle bullet. And Uzi has maybe has two or three times the range of a 9mm pistol, but maybe half of or one-third the effective range of an assault rifle and most submachine-guns are considered obsolete for use by regular troops since they weigh as much as an assault rifle (especially a carbine like the M-4, which is a shortened M-16) but have a fraction of the effective range. Submachine-guns are still effective in close quarters battle and are used by elite special forces or SWAT police units in hostage rescues as they are compact and the 9mm won't "over-penetrate" through walls and potentially kill innocent people in another room. But they're considered generally useless for use by frontline troops since the 1970s or early 1980s when NATO countries went to small-caliber assault rifles like the M-16...

Nickdfresh

10-18-2009, 05:42 PM

Incidentally, the Israelis are now working on a "bullpup" assault rifle for the IDF and are now issuing it to replace the M-16A1, CAR15, and Galil rifles...

hideyoursheep

10-18-2009, 06:15 PM

Ah, yes...that reminds me of a story..I might have told this one before, so stop me if you've heard it.

The Brits used to carry a Sterling sub machine gun..much like the UZI..I can't remember the exact variation of the thing, but while doing exercises with the boys from 3rd Para, I asked one of them, "what good is that thing?" His answer: "It'll blow the balls off an Irishmen at 30 paces!" :lmao:

Tankers used to carry an M3 "grease gun" which fired a .45 cal. round...I guess they have been phased out, as tankers never fight dismounted anyway. It was one of those "just in case" weapons.

(not to turn this into a weapons thread, just FYI)

Nickdfresh

10-20-2009, 03:34 PM

Va Beach VH Fan

01-28-2010, 03:57 PM

After Obama's speech last night, Robert Gates just announced he's going to have a major announcement on Tuesday....

Unchainme

01-28-2010, 04:04 PM

After Obama's speech last night, Robert Gates just announced he's going to have a major announcement on Tuesday....

Sorry, just the title of the thread and "the announcement" makes me think he's going to do..other things..:biggrin:

http://www.scshades.com/img/offers/Closet%20Door%20black%20with%20dividers.jpg

But anyways, my feelings on it are that:

"Not that's there's anything wrong with that", none at-all auctually, have no problem with this, just so long as it doesn't become a distraction to other troops and vice versa. I think one's personal life should be made private from work.

I could truly care less if someone was gay/straight..whatever the hell..Just as long as I don't have to here about it in detail or at all, and it's nothing illegal, it's that person's own business and not mine.

Little Texan

01-28-2010, 10:08 PM

Yeah..I'm going into some strange territory here, but I never felt as uncomfortable showering in the 8 man waterbox as I did taking a deuce with some guy sitting directly across from me reading the Stars and Stripes.

:bath::toilet-humor:

Sounds like jail!

BigBadBrian

01-30-2010, 09:11 AM

Va Beach VH Fan

01-30-2010, 10:14 AM

Well, relatively speaking, the Air Force easily has the best looking women, by far..

hideyoursheep

01-31-2010, 03:52 AM

Sounds like jail!

Jail is easier.

Nickdfresh

02-02-2010, 06:22 PM

At the risk of getting this back on topic...

Top military officer: Gays should serve
Admiral Mullen says he is deeply troubled by ‘don’t ask, don’t tell’ policy
NBC News and news services
updated 6:06 p.m. ET, Tues., Feb. 2, 2010

WASHINGTON - The military's top uniformed officer declared Tuesday that gays should be allowed to serve openly in uniform, arguing that it is "the right thing to do."

Adm. Mike Mullen's statement was the strongest yet from the uniformed military on this volatile issue, although he stressed that he was "speaking for myself and myself only."

He told the Senate Armed Services Committee Tuesday he is deeply troubled by a policy that forces people to "lie about who they are in order to defend their fellow citizens."

Mullen said he knows many will disagree about abandoning the "don't ask, don't tell" policy and said there are practical obstacles to lifting the 1993 ban. But he said he thinks the military can handle it. Mullen is chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and chief military adviser to President Barack Obama.

Defense Secretary Robert Gates told the panel he is tapping his chief legal adviser and a four-star Army general to lead a landmark study on how the military would lift its ban on openly gay service members.

Pentagon counsel Jeh Johnson and Gen. Carter Ham, who leads Army forces in Europe, will conduct the yearlong assessment.

Sen. John McCain, the ranking committee Republican, publicly bristled at the Pentagon's decision to launch a yearlong study into allowing gays to serve, saying he is "deeply disappointed" and calling the assessment "clearly biased" because it presumes the law should be changed.

McCain, the top Republican on the Armed Services Committee, said the current policy is not ideal, but that it has been effective.

McCain said he wanted to hear more from the military on this issue. But Gates suggested that lawmakers keep the intensity of debate in tow until the military can get a better handle on how to proceed. He told the panel: "Keep the impact it will have on our forces firmly in mind."

Appointed team
Ham is a former enlisted infantryman who rose through the ranks to eventually command troops in northern Iraq in 2004 and hold senior positions within the Joint Staff. Recently, he helped conduct an investigation into the shootings by a soldier at the Fort Hood Army base in Texas.

As the Pentagon's top legal counsel, Johnson has played an integral role into the effort to try to close the military prison in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

Gates' announcement marked a measured step toward Obama's goal of eliminating the military's policy against gays, which is based on a 1993 law.

Under the policy, engaging in homosexual conduct — even if you don't tell anyone — can been enough to qualify a person for dismissal.

The law was intended as a compromise between then-President Bill Clinton, who wanted to lift the military's ban on gays entirely, and a reluctant Congress and military that said doing so would threaten order.

According to figures released Monday, the Defense Department last year dismissed the fewest number of service members for violating its the policy than it had in more than a decade. Overall, more than 10,900 troops have been fired under the policy. The 2009 figure — 428 — was dramatically lower than the 2008 total of 619.

End of a dream
David Hall, a former Air Force sergeant, said he was discharged in 2002 after someone else reported that he was gay.

"That ended it," said Hall, who now works for a gay rights advocacy group. "Just like that, based off what one person said, ended my dream of getting to fly planes."

In addition to addressing the military's policy on gays, Gates and Mullen planned to outline the military's $768 billion budget for 2011 and another $33 billion requested in war spending this year.

Copyright 2010 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

Top military officer: Gays should serve - Military- msnbc.com (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35197645/ns/us_news-military/)