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Nickdfresh
10-13-2009, 10:43 AM
How Valid is the Insurers' Attack on Health Reform?
By Kate Pickert Tuesday, Oct. 13, 2009


After months of lending its cautious, very qualified support to health-care reform, the health-insurance industry has lobbed its first bomb at the Democrats' proposals. But many of the industry's assertions appear to have missed their mark.

Just two days before Tuesday's scheduled vote on the Senate Finance Committee's health bill, a report warning that the bill would result in sizable hikes in insurance premiums was released, and then widely panned as a flawed analysis of cherry-picked information. A spokesman for the committee called the report a "hatchet job, plain and simple"; and some Democrats on Capitol Hill claimed that the insurers' broadside would actually ease, rather than slow, passage of health reform by unifying the various factions of the party against an industry with precious little credibility among the public. (See 10 players in health-care reform.)

White House officials said they felt "misled" by the insurers, who they claimed gave no notice that they were about to release the study. And health-policy analysts fired out press releases all day Monday debunking various points made in the study, authored by consultants PriceWaterhouse Coopers, including its assertion that between 2010 and 2019 the Senate Finance Committee bill would cause the typical family health-insurance policy to rise $20,700 more than if no reforms at all were enacted. By Monday evening Jonathan Gruber, a respected MIT economist who has advised lawmakers on health reform, released his own analysis asserting that insurance premiums for young adults, typical families and older Americans would actually decrease by hundreds to thousands of dollars per year under the Senate Finance Committee bill.

What accounts for the discrepancies? One problem with the industry-funded report is that it bases its prediction on provisions in the bill that increase costs, while ignoring others that seek to mitigate those costs — such as subsidies to help many currently uninsured Americans purchase coverage. The report also makes broad assumptions about the impact of reform that conflict with the assessments of the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office. For example, the report assumes that the bill's proposed tax on pricey "Cadillac plans" will not impact how many businesses continue to provide such plans to employees. (Watch TIME's video "Uninsured Again.")

Still, behind all the debunked and debated facts lies one irrefutable truth: even Finance Committee staff admit they do not know the precise effect the bill will have on private-insurance premiums. "It's impossible to figure out what the bottom-line impact is," a committee aide admitted in a Monday afternoon conference call with reporters.

The insurers' central argument against the current version of health reform is that it won't produce enough new insured Americans to make up for the new rules forbidding the insurers from setting premium rates based on health status. Late in the drafting process, chairman Max Baucus accepted changes to the legislation that weakened the "individual mandate," by reducing the financial penalties for Americans who choose to forgo coverage. The changes were meant to help woo potential Republican swing vote Olympia Snowe, who thinks the mandate would unfairly punish Americans who find coverage unaffordable but aren't eligible for subsidies. But the result, according to the insurance-industry-funded report, is that the nationwide pool of people who buy private health insurance on the open market — that is, not through their employers — will be disproportionately stacked with sicker people, because too many young and healthy Americans, with their low medical risk, will not buy coverage.

This criticism, however, ignores several provisions in the bill that mitigate this risk, such as a health-insurance plan designed specifically intended to lure young, healthy Americans into the insurance market. Called the "young invincibles plan," the coverage would be available to Americans 25 years and younger and would have high deductibles and low premiums. The insurance-industry-funded study also disputes the CBO's prediction that the Baucus bill will result in health-insurance coverage for 94% of Americans. Karen Ignagni, head of the America's Health Insurance Plans, which commissioned the study, counters that the group's own analysis predicts a smaller share of the population would have coverage under the Baucus bill.

Other sections in the controversial study assert that any additional cost burdens felt by the insurance industry, such as cuts in Medicare payments to providers like hospitals, will simply be passed to consumers. This could be true in some cases, according to Paul Ginsburg, president of the Center for Studying Health System Change, a nonpartisan policy group. Ginsburg, who has written extensively about such cost-shifting, says that under the Baucus bill, "Hospitals that are the more prominent ones that everybody wants in their plan — they will be able to raise charges to private insurers. Others with more of a Medicaid and uninsured mix, they will probably have to cut their costs."

Still, not all of the Medicare cuts in the Baucus bill would be shouldered by providers with the ability to charge insurers more. The bill, for instance, includes $117 billion in cuts over 10 years to Medicare Advantage plans - private insurance for Medicare — eligible Americans for which the government spends, on average, 14% more than it spends on Medicare beneficiaries. Much of this additional funding already goes into the coffers of insurers, meaning "cost-shifting" in these cases would be done by insurance companies trying to make up for these lost profits by charging more to other customers. The bill also would spend $22.5 billion less (over 10 years) on Medicare payments to hospitals that provide charity care to the uninsured — on the assumption that there would be fewer uninsured patients after health reform.

The insurance industry also takes issue with flat annual fees assessed on health industries (including $6.7 billion on insurers), which it insists would be passed along to consumers. Since the fees are based on each insurer's market share, there's no way of knowing how much premiums could go up as a result. But a Senate Finance Committee aide says the fact that the fees are calculated based on market share — instead of on each individual policy sold — "makes them more difficult to pass through."

There is, clearly, no shortage of disputes over the industry's report. But no matter how flawed it may be, the decision to unveil the study could pose a real threat to the passage of health reform: it marks an end to the White House's long-prized dιtente with a special-interest group that has lots of money ready to get its message out. In a conference call with reporters Monday afternoon, Ignagni promised, "We will continue to communicate with the American people."

Health-Reform Plan Attacked by Insurance Companies - TIME (http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1929930,00.html)

ELVIS
10-13-2009, 10:57 AM
So, how is nearly 900 billion (probably more than double that when it's all said and screwed) supposed to be paid for, AND save the economy, in ten years ???

Guitar Shark
10-13-2009, 11:58 AM
So, how is nearly 900 billion (probably more than double that when it's all said and screwed) supposed to be paid for, AND save the economy, in ten years ???

If only someone had asked Bush that question...

Cost of War | National Priorities Project (http://www.nationalpriorities.org/costofwar_home)

Guitar Shark
10-13-2009, 12:11 PM
Ex-insider: Insurance industry report is bogus – amFIX - CNN.com Blogs (http://amfix.blogs.cnn.com/2009/10/13/insider-blasts-new-insurance-industry-report/)

John Roberts - Anchor, CNN's American Morning
Filed under: Politics

The Senate Finance Committee’s health care reform bill got high marks from the Congressional Budget Office for keeping the deficit down, but now insurance companies say it will actually cost you and your family thousands of dollars more than you’re paying now.

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/images/10/13/potter.wendell.art.jpg
Wendell Potter says the insurance industry has been disingenuous from the beginning of the health care reform debate.

Wendell Potter worked for two different insurance companies in the past, and now he’s working against them to help get reform passed. He says the claims from this new report from an insurance industry trade group are just not true.

Potter spoke to John Roberts on CNN’s “American Morning” Tuesday. Below is an edited transcript of that interview.

John Roberts: On March 5th, at a White house conference on health care reform, Karen Ignani, who is the president and CEO of AHIP – American’s Health Insurance Plans – stands up and addresses the president. She says, “We want to work with you. We want to work with the members of Congress on a bipartisan basis here. You have our commitment.”

So just six months ago, Wendell, there was American’s Health Insurance Plans standing up, saying we want to work with you on health care reform. Just yesterday they came out with this study, this PricewaterhouseCoopers report, which is a scathing criticism of the so-called Baucus Bill in the Senate Finance Committee. What changed between then and now?

Wendell Potter: You know, what happened on that March day – that summit at the White House – was what made me decide to become a critic of the industry, because that was the beginning of their charm offensive, the part of the PR campaign that they want us to see, they want us to hear. And what we saw – what we’re seeing now is the other side of that; their efforts behind the scenes and now more publicly to defeat reform. And it’s all an effort to try to shape reform, if they can, or kill it if they can, but shape it for their benefit and at the benefit of Wall Street shareholders, more than Americans.

Roberts: Are you suggesting that Karen Ignagni was being disingenuous during that meeting?

Potter: I think the industry has been disingenuous from the beginning of this debate. They have never had any intention of being good faith partners with the president and Congress. And I know this from having been a part of many, many efforts over the past 20 years, almost, to defeat reform, or to help shape reform to the industry’s benefit. And I was a part of some of the efforts to plan this very campaign.

Roberts: AHIP’s initial problem was with the public option, which is not in the Senate bill, but now they’re saying, wait a minute, there aren’t stiff enough penalties for people who don’t buy health insurance. That’s the new beef. What’s that all about?

Potter: You know, it’s an argument – it’s probably the best case that I’ve heard from anybody why we need a public health insurance option. What they’re saying is, in fact, they bought and paid for this report from an outfit, you know, that’s worked for them and done many reports like this over many years. They’ve taken selective parts of the bill – not even bothering to read the full bill or take some other elements into consideration – and are claiming that the bill, if enacted, would raise premiums. It’s nonsense. It would not work the way that they’re saying. In fact, one of the authors admitted, apparently late yesterday, that they did not take into consideration other important elements of the bill.

Roberts: So let me stop you there and just drill down on this claim that they’re making, that the health care bill that’s now in the Senate Finance Committee would add hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars to the cost of a health insurance package for most people and families. You’re saying that that’s just not true?

Potter: It’s just not true, because they’re taking the parts of the bill that the industry now does not like. What the Finance Committee did, fortunately, toward the end of last week was reduce some of the very, very severe penalties that the insurance industry wanted to have in the bill that would be assessed against us if we decide we don’t want to buy their overpriced and inadequate products that are often nothing more than fake insurance.

Roberts: So how do they go forward and make such a claim if it’s just patently not true?

Potter: Because they can. Because they know they can often get away with it and they know that they’ve got a lot of shills on Capitol Hill. One thing we’ll be able to see over the next, you know, today and the coming days, is whether or not people will be revealing themselves as the industry shills by quoting from this bogus report.

Roberts: All right. So if it comes down to a fight between America’s Health Insurance Plans and the White House, who do you think is going to win?

Potter: My money’s on the White House on this one, because I think that the people are behind the White House and the Congress and I think the industry knows that. This is a desperation move on the part of the insurance industry, because analysts are now somewhat concerned – Wall Street analysts – that the bill may not be absolutely, everything that the industry wants, and that’s what’s driving this – Wall Street’s expectations that this bill may not be everything they’d hoped and prayed for.

Roberts: And you said this is the greatest argument for a public option that you have heard to date, but do you think this could breathe new life into the idea of a public option?

Potter: I think it already is. From what I’m hearing, people who have been trying and working really in good faith to get legislation passed are now knowing that a public option is one of the most important ways to try to keep this industry honest. Without the public option, you know, these companies will continue to have the free reign they’ve had over the last several years, and they will, indeed, raise our prices, our premiums to the point that we can’t afford them and more and more people will be in the ranks of the underinsured.

ELVIS
10-13-2009, 12:54 PM
If only someone had asked Bush that question...

Cost of War | National Priorities Project (http://www.nationalpriorities.org/costofwar_home)

Bush never claimed to be saving EVERYTHING with "change."

Big Train
10-13-2009, 12:57 PM
Blogs are the answer for stupid people who want to seem smart.

[QUOTE=Guitar Shark;1391071]Ex-insider: Insurance industry report is bogus – amFIX - CNN.com Blogs (http://amfix.blogs.cnn.com/2009/10/13/insider-blasts-new-insurance-industry-report/)


Weren't you just saying this yesterday?

Guitar Shark
10-13-2009, 01:05 PM
Weren't you just saying this yesterday?

Please tell me you are not seriously contending that a blog by CNN anchor/journalist John Roberts is even remotely similar to the blog entry you posted.

Big Train
10-13-2009, 01:18 PM
Why would I not? There is nothing in the blog post that I posted that strays from the facts. If so, please identify where the discrepancies are.

I just found it curious since you just said yesterday that blogs are for retards, that you would then link to a blog. I suppose the caveat is that it is a major news org's blog.

Because it is a CNN anchor, the quality is that much better? You are REALLY saying that? Bill O'Reilly Blogs should therefore be better than CNN's, since he dwarfs them in the ratings, if I'm following your logic correctly.

Guitar Shark
10-13-2009, 01:19 PM
I've defended you in the past, but I'm done now. Jesus.

Big Train
10-13-2009, 01:22 PM
Allah,

I've appreciated your defenses of me in the past, although I can defend myself.

I'm just asking for clarification Shark. Don't take it personally.

Jesus Christ
10-13-2009, 01:24 PM
Bush never claimed to be saving EVERYTHING with "change."

No, he just claimed that Dad and I told him to bomb Afghanistan and Iraq. :(

Nickdfresh
10-13-2009, 01:49 PM
If only someone had asked Bush that question...

Cost of War | National Priorities Project (http://www.nationalpriorities.org/costofwar_home)

Yup. And $900 Billion is about two years worth of defense budgets. Probably a good deal less when you factor in the Pentagon budgetary shell games and black programs...

Nickdfresh
10-13-2009, 01:56 PM
Why would I not? There is nothing in the blog post that I posted that strays from the facts.

There's not much that sprays near any facts either....


If so, please identify where the discrepancies are.

Not everyone has time to run through blatantly partisan opinion editorials, especially one written by any halfwit with internet access...

Secondly, I'm not saying NEVER post them. Sometimes that can be fun and maybe add to the conversation. But basing an entire argument on them is silly....


I just found it curious since you just said yesterday that blogs are for retards, that you would then link to a blog. I suppose the caveat is that it is a major news org's blog.

Because it is a CNN anchor, the quality is that much better? You are REALLY saying that? Bill O'Reilly Blogs should therefore be better than CNN's, since he dwarfs them in the ratings, if I'm following your logic correctly.

Now you're screaming for semantics, Nancy boy...John is an actual reporter with the pretense of non-bias and reaching for facts, not skewing with opinions. O'Really is a "pundit," someone that never lets the truth stand in the way of his prefabricated opinions spewed out for his masses in the ready-made audience of childlike dickheads that can only watch and read what they want to hear and see...

Nickdfresh
10-13-2009, 01:58 PM
Allah,

I've appreciated your defenses of me in the past, although I can defend myself.

I'm just asking for clarification Shark. Don't take it personally.

Funny, but you seem to take everything "personally."

You know, there was a time when you could actually argue and disagree with people without coming off as a ticky, knee-jerk douchebag...

Big Train
10-13-2009, 02:03 PM
Funny, but you seem to take everything "personally."

You know, there was a time when you could actually argue and disagree with people without coming off as a ticky, knee-jerk douchebag...

That's funny, I used to think the exact same of you. I react to things as I do, I'm not here to explain myself. When you and I get into it, you throw stuff in and so do I. I'm arguing in the style of the place.

If you want high level discourse, then apply the standard yourself in your responses and I will reply in kind.

Baby's On Fire
10-13-2009, 08:48 PM
So, how is nearly 900 billion (probably more than double that when it's all said and screwed) supposed to be paid for, AND save the economy, in ten years ???

How about ending the illegal invasion and occupation of other countries, for starters?

Or is that an acceptable waste of money and lives to a hypocritical, faux religious, heartless cunt like yourself?