Goodbye Dodge, Hello Fiat

[Nickdfresh]

Fiat to make Chrysler into . . . Fiat
The Italian carmaker expects to reintroduce Alfa Romeo to the US market and add many models that work in Europe. Many old US models will be phased out.
Posted by Charley Blaine on Monday, October 26, 2009 7:25 PM

Four months after exiting a U.S.-funded bankruptcy reorganization, Chrysler Group is about to unveil a product roadmap that relies heavily on vehicles from Italian partner Fiat (FIATY) while abandoning many of the U.S. carmaker's own models.

The plan, due to be unveiled Nov. 4, involves the reintroduction of Fiat's premium, sporty Alfa Romeo brand to the U.S. starting in 2012, The Wall Street Journal reported this afternoon.

Chrysler also will introduce the 500, Fiat's tiny car that is popular in Europe, to Americans. It won't, however, attach the Fiat name to it.

Chrysler meantime is preparing to phase out many of its current models, particularly Dodge cars, the Journal said.

Fiat and Chrysler are working to create several new vehicles with Fiat technology for the U.S. market, including a midsize Chrysler-brand sedan to be released in 2012.

The sweeping changes, due to play out over the next two to three years, represent a big gamble for Chief Executive Sergio Marchionne, who has staked his reputation on the turnaround.

Marchionne, who successfully revamped Fiat, appears to be creating a vehicle lineup that stays true to Chrysler's blue-collar muscle-car and pickup roots while adding European-style vehicles to attract a new, more white-collar customer.

But in the short term, Marchionne's task is to keep the company afloat until 2012 when the bulk of the new offerings will come to the U.S.

Chrysler is faced now with shrinking market share and few new models coming to market. While it doesn't disclose its finances, Fiat has said repeatedly it won't inject any money into Chrysler despite receiving a 20% ownership stake in the company's reorganization.

Instead, it is contributing technology and management expertise.

"The biggest issue this company has is getting through the next few years," Rebecca Lindland, an automotive analyst at IHS Global Insight, told the Journal.

"They are going to have a hard time maintaining market share, let alone increasing it."

Fiat to make Chrysler into . . . FiatMarket Dispatches - MSN Money (http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/Dispatch/print.aspx?post=1337558)

[ELVIS]

Dodge isn't leaving...

[FORD]

Last I heard, they were going to split off the Dodge trucks into a different division and call it "Ram Trucks". They'll probably keep the brand names for some Dodge cars and just slap them onto Fiat products. Just like the "Dodge Omni" back in the 80's was really a Mitsubishi product before there were any Mitsubishi product lines in the US.

[twonabomber]

no, 'cause there still will be Dodge trucks. but if things continue to be bad, they can sell the Dodge truck line to another company.

it's kind of dumb to have a 300 and a Charger in the same showroom together, even though one is trying to be a luxury car and the other is trying to be a sport sedan. even worse to have the Avenger and the Sebring sold next to each other...two cars that no one wants. and Sergio, unless you're going to go rally car and chase Subaru with them, PLEASE kill the FWD Jeep things. keep Wrangler SFA while you're at it. i may have to buy another one some day. :D

at one time there was a plan to make Dodge more truck and on-road SUV based, Chrysler all the cars, and leave Jeep alone. then Charger and Challenger came along...if they decide to make Dodge all trucks, i guess Challenger can become the 'Cuda again.

Fiat's been trying to get Alfa back in the States for a while, i'm surprised they didn't package or offer it to the Maserati or Ferrari dealers. one of the local Chrysler/Jeep dealers used to have an Alfa lot back in the day, kind of a foreshadowing to today.

i'd like to get my hands on one of those 500's, but it's got to be the Abarth. i can beat the shit outta that while my one-of-2000-made SRT-6 rests in the garage.

[Nitro Express]

Fiat being involved smelled to me so I did a little research and found Fiat is owned and managed by an old money Italian family who gave a lot of money to Obama's campaign. Henry Kissinger attended the wedding of the man who runs Fiat so you see the connections here. More political/financial back scratching more than real economics at work.

[twonabomber]

Just like the "Dodge Omni" back in the 80's was really a Mitsubishi product before there were any Mitsubishi product lines in the US.

Omni, Plymouth Horizon, and Turismo Omni were domestics. the Mitsus were the Dodge Colt and Plymouth Champ, and later the Eagle Summit.

[twonabomber]

Fiat being involved smelled to me so I did a little research and found Fiat is owned and managed by an old money Italian family who gave a lot of money to Obama's campaign. Henry Kissinger attended the wedding of the man who runs Fiat so you see the connections here. More political/financial back scratching more than real economics at work.

Fiat was looking at Chrysler before the election, maybe as early as when Cerberus put them up for sale.

[Blackflag]

Just like the "Dodge Omni" back in the 80's was really a Mitsubishi product before there were any Mitsubishi product lines in the US.

No.
.
.

[Nitro Express]

Fiat was looking at Chrysler before the election, maybe as early as when Cerberus put them up for sale.

Possibly. It just seems like a strange match. The world has too many car companies. GM's big problem is they had too many brands. Fiat might make a go if they sell a well built, dependable car that has some appeal. There is real demand in the US for a car that sells below $10,000.

[Blackflag]

I don't buy the 'too many brands' argument. The problem with GM is that their cars blew and weren't what the customers wanted.

[Nickdfresh]

Fiat was looking at Chrysler before the election, maybe as early as when Cerberus put them up for sale.

We'd have to go back and check, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were one of the suitors that were left at the alter when those crooked bastards that sold Chrysler down the river to Mercedes jumped out with their golden parachutes in the 1990s...

And the money conspiracy shit is just silly. What was the alternative for Chrysler? To keep being just Chrysler? They wanted a piece of Fiat as much as Fiat wanted their dealerships. There is a lot of consolation going on all over the auto world in Europe, Asia, and here. Fiat simply wanted a large dealership network in the states so they could reintroduce their multilevel product line, from pedestrian to luxury, to an established and well placed network of dealerships...

And I might also be looking at an Abarth 500. :) Soon, within the next five years, there are going to be a lot of choices for fun, stylish small cars in the US market that we've never had before.

If you're a guy (or gal) that really likes driving, and keeping up with cars and all that, feel free to look at the Euro websites for Honda, Ford, etc. and see how much nicer versions of cars over there are that are completely different from say the US Focus....

[Blackflag]

There were no suitors when Mercedes bought Chrysler.

[Nickdfresh]

I don't buy the 'too many brands' argument. The problem with GM is that their cars blew and weren't what the customers wanted.

I'll agree with you there...

But, there is the argument that they were improving things and the recession and the skyrocketing price of gas basically ruined them right as they were changing their lineup. I would say the American love affair with the SUV has also hurt them as this allowed them to focus on making larger and larger pieces of shit while completely ignoring their car lineups...

A case in point, the Chevy Cobalt/Pontiac G5 (which sold somewhat well last year) was basically just a redone Opel Astra that was a decade behind the current European Astra formerly imported by Saturn for a couple of years...

[Blackflag]

But, there is the argument that they were improving things and the recession and the skyrocketing price of gas basically ruined them right as they were changing their lineup. I would say the American love affair with the SUV has also hurt them as this allowed them to focus on making larger and larger pieces of shit while completely ignoring their car lineups...


I guess that's why planning is important. Fuck GM. I had sympathy for them until they took my money.

[twonabomber]

I don't buy the 'too many brands' argument. The problem with GM is that their cars blew and weren't what the customers wanted.

they DID have too many brands. there was no reason to have seven versions of the Trailblazer. the Bravada and the Envoy were the same damn thing, maybe the suspension was a little softer on one and maybe one had low range 4WD where the other didn't, but those could have been made options on ONE vehicle.

i always found it funny that GM said "we can't sell your grandmother a GMC when she really wants an Olds or a Buick," but then the dealerships are full of these self-proclaimed shit-hot sales turds that claim they can sell ice to an Eskimo. if they were that fucking good at selling then they should have been able to convince the grandmas that the Envoy and Bravada and Rainier were the same damn thing, shouldn't they?

as for "professional grade..." yeah. like the guys building the Sierra and Canyon care more about their quality of work than the guys building Silverados and Colorados. i don't buy it.

the local Saturn dealer is running ads that say the Aura is the same thing as the Malibu, and right now the Aura is cheaper than the Malibu. at least they admit it...

GM had been out of touch with the consumer and slow to react to market changes long before their bankruptcy, and i don't see much of a change now.

[twonabomber]

And I might also be looking at an Abarth 500. :)

Michael Schumacher says he has one. if the 500 Abarth is good enough for him, it's good enough for me.

they've had some sweet looking bigger Alfas on Top Gear too.

[letsrock]

Omni, Plymouth Horizon, and Turismo Omni were domestics. the Mitsus were the Dodge Colt and Plymouth Champ, and later the Eagle Summit.

I had a 78 Plymouth arrow. It was all Mitsuibishi, just like that small dodge d150 truck.

[lesfunk]

Fix It Again Tony

[Nickdfresh]

This is not your father's FIAT... :biggrin: Actually, it isn't. Their quality is pretty highly rated in Europe I believe...

[FORD]

Omni, Plymouth Horizon, and Turismo Omni were domestics. the Mitsus were the Dodge Colt and Plymouth Champ, and later the Eagle Summit.

OK, I stand corrected. But the Omni was a piece of shit, because one of my ex girlfriends had one. Which she had to give up because of too many speeding tickets. I'm just surprised she got them in that car. :biggrin:

[twonabomber]

the 2.2's weren't too bad. the turbos were much better. the Shelby GLH (goes like hell) was pretty fast and cheap for its time.

[Nitro Express]

I don't buy the 'too many brands' argument. The problem with GM is that their cars blew and weren't what the customers wanted.

They did in the 1990's when people wanted the big SUV's. That craze started when Californians started to move into neighboring states and saw the locals drove Suburbans and liked them themselves. Then the trend really took off when Arnold Swarzeneggar order a military humvee and started driving it. So the California exodus and Gulf War of the early 1990's started the SUV craze and GM made plenty of money. They apparently were ill positioned for a changing market but they also had plenty of brands and cars that just didn't sell. This was due to the Union forcing them to keep so many lines open.

GM was working on hydrogen and hybrid vehicles. They even had a standardized chassis that could work with various body designs but they just didn't deliver the goods like their competition nor did they market well.

Now GM stands for Government Motors. Maybe they will make Trabants, Zils, and Ladas now. LOL!

[Big Train]

Once again...Nice Job Joe Biden..

Biden Spills Beans on Automaker's Full Line of New Vehicles - Auto - FOXNews.com (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,569895,00.html)

Vice President Joe Biden, during a visit Tuesday to a Delaware automotive assembly plant, unwittingly revealed startup manufacturer Fisker Automotive's undisclosed plans to produce a full line of plug-in hybrid vehicles at the facility.

Near the end of his speech, Biden asked the crowd of mostly UAW workers, who had worked at the Boxwood Road facility in Wilmington when it was owned by General Motors, to “imagine when this factory, when the floor we’re standing on right now is making 100,000 plug-in hybrid sedan, coupes and crossovers every single year."

Fisker, which is in the process of purchasing the plant, previously said only that it was developing the sedan, to be priced at around $40,000 after state and federal tax credits are taken into account.

In an interview with Foxnews.com after the presentation, company founder and CEO Henrik Fisker confirmed that what Biden said was accurate.

“He definitely told what our product plans are,” Fisker laughed, adding that all of his company's cars are being developed from the start with at least three derivatives in mind.

Fisker said that the first Nina, the sedan, will begin production in 2012 using a lower-cost version of the series hybrid powertrain developed for the company's flagship $80,000 Karma, which is slated to be manufactured by Valmet of Finland beginning in 2010. Production of the Karma will also be brought to Delaware when the second generation of the car is launched in 2016, according to company COO, Bernhard Koehler.

Styling of the Nina — named for the ship that brought Christopher Columbus back to Europe from his first journey to the New World, and meant to symbolize the beginning of a new era in automaking – is still being kept under wraps, but designs have been shown to the government officials who approved the $529 million federal loan to Fisker that made the purchase of the shuttered plant possible.

“It’s going to have a very exciting radical design,” Fisker said. “We actually just showed it to the vice president of the United States of America and he said ‘it looks like a four-door Ferrari, I can’t believe it’s only going to be $40,000.’”

As for the Karma, Fisker corroborated earlier statements that it will be able to travel up to 50 miles on electric power and should receive an EPA combined rating of around 67 mpg, though some owners will be able to achieve over 100 mpg, depending on their driving style.

Unlike what is known about the operation of the Chevy Volt, which uses a powertrain that is similar in concept to the Karma’s, Fisker said that drivers will have some ability to manually turn the internal combustion engine on and off as battery power permits, by choosing between "stealth" and "sport" modes.

Click here for an interview with Volt Vehicle Line Director Tony Posawatz

Fisker adds that, in either setting, when battery charge is depleted and the vehicle is using the internal combustion engine to provide power for the electric motors, the performance of the car will remain the same.

A prototype of the Karma was shown to the public lapping the track at California's Laguna Seca raceway in electric mode this past August, but, to date, no journalist has been allowed to drive the car.