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Nickdfresh
10-27-2009, 11:10 AM
Healthcare flushes $800bn down the drain annually
by Jaspreet Kaur - October 27, 2009

Washington, October 27 -- According to a report released by Thomson Reuters on Monday, the U.S. healthcare system squanders a lot of funds and approximately $505 billion to $850 billion go waste every year. Healthcare system in the country can be improved by simply taking care of the inadequacies and fighting against frauds

Thomson Reuters discovered that healthcare costs can be drastically cut down by avoiding errors, combating frauds, and repairing some of the most visible inefficiencies in the healthcare system

One-third of the country’s healthcare bill wasted: Kelley
The latest report says, “America’s healthcare system is indeed haemorrhaging billions of dollars, and the opportunities to slow the fiscal bleeding are substantial.”

Robert Kelley, Vice-President of healthcare analytics at Thomson Reuters was quoted as saying, “The bad news is that an estimated $700 billion is wasted annually. That’s one-third of the nation’s healthcare bill.”

He further added, “The good news is that by attacking waste we can reduce healthcare costs without adversely affecting the quality of care or access to care.”

Citing one example, Kelley explained that a paper-based system that does not allow the sharing of medical records leads to an increase in the yearly overspending by 6 percent.

The report by Thomson Reuters reads, “It is waste when caregivers duplicate tests because results recorded in a patient’s record with one provider are not available to another or when medical staff provides inappropriate treatment because relevant history of previous treatment cannot be accessed.”

Important findings of the new report
Following are some of the other important findings that have been mentioned in the report from Thomson Reuters:

1. Excessive use of antibiotics and lab tests to guard against mismanagement accounts for 37 percent of healthcare waste. This is equivalent to $200 to $300 billion a year.

2. Frauds and scams constitute 22 percent of healthcare waste. This means fake Medicare claims, bribes for referrals of unnecessary services etc. eat up to $200 billion annually.

3. 18 percent of healthcare waste is attributed to unnecessary paperwork and the incompetence prevalent in the administrative departments.

4. Medical mistakes lead to losses ranging between $50 billion to $100 billion.

5. Avoidable conditions such as uncontrolled diabetes cost $30 billion to $50 billion annually.

Healthcare system bad when compared to Canada's
The report also reads, “The average U.S. hospital spends one-quarter of its budget on billing and administration, nearly twice the average in Canada.”

The new report also makes a reference to the 2003 New England Journal of Medicine paper by Harvard University researcher Dr. Steffie Woolhandler, where it was found that, “American physicians spend nearly eight hours per week on paperwork and employ 1.66 clerical workers per doctor, far more than in Canada.”

Even with the presence of so much workforce, primary care doctors are not enough in the country, and the emergency services are not utilized properly. The system surely needs a brush-up if the common people have to benefit.

Healthcare flushes $800bn down the drain annually | The Money Times (http://www.themoneytimes.com/featured/20091027/healthcare-flushes-800bn-down-drain-annually-id-1088832.html)

Big Train
10-27-2009, 12:06 PM
Yup and you can take these numbers and double them once the 800 hammer US government runs the show..

Nickdfresh
10-27-2009, 12:23 PM
Yup and you can take these numbers and double them once the 800 hammer US government runs the show..

LOL Is that you're argument now? More of the same!! It's only twice the yearly expenditure on Defense at the Pentagon...

Big Train
10-27-2009, 01:06 PM
LOL YUP!!! ROFL LOL...Is that your arguement? Paying twice as much as the defense budget (which most liberals whine about non-stop, that is entirely too much) is apparently a "reasonable" number, then ok, keep the comedy coming...

The point is, no activity the government has ever undertaken has made the activity cheaper or more efficient. That is a big piece of the argument (quality of care, lack of this activity having any control over cost), but there are still many other pieces to it.

Nickdfresh
10-27-2009, 01:49 PM
LOL YUP!!! ROFL LOL...Is that your arguement? Paying twice as much as the defense budget (which most liberals whine about non-stop, that is entirely too much) is apparently a "reasonable" number, then ok, keep the comedy coming...

The point is, no activity the government has ever undertaken has made the activity cheaper or more efficient. That is a big piece of the argument (quality of care, lack of this activity having any control over cost), but there are still many other pieces to it.

What I'm laughing about is that you're advocating for a system that wastes $700 to $800 billion a year, and then pretending the "government bogeyman"--which is little more than regulation at this point--will somehow be worse. More of the same buddy...

Big Train
10-27-2009, 01:53 PM
Buddy,

OK, at what point in either of my posts did I advocate for the defense budget? Please show me. I would gladly argue (if we were talking about the defense budget, or you had actually asked me a question about it), that we are paying too much in the defense budget.

Nickdfresh
10-27-2009, 01:54 PM
Buddy,

OK, at what point in either of my posts did I advocate for the defense budget? Please show me. I would gladly argue (if we were talking about the defense budget, or you had actually asked me a question about it), that we are paying too much in the defense budget.

Waving hand, over head...

Big Train
10-27-2009, 02:14 PM
Surrending? Long overdue, but appreciated.

Oh I see (had to wrap my head around your way of thinking). This comment:

Paying twice as much as the defense budget (which most liberals whine about non-stop, that is entirely too much) is apparently a "reasonable" number, then ok, keep the comedy coming...

Which says nothing about the defense budget per se, but about the numbers involved, you took to mean I was somehow "defending" the defense budget.

All I'm saying is if you think THOSE numbers are bad...

Nickdfresh
10-27-2009, 07:42 PM
Surrending? Long overdue, but appreciated.

I'm not sure what "surrending" is, but I don't think you do it by waving a hand over your head...


Oh I see (had to wrap my head around your way of thinking). This comment:

Paying twice as much as the defense budget (which most liberals whine about non-stop, that is entirely too much) is apparently a "reasonable" number, then ok, keep the comedy coming...

Which says nothing about the defense budget per se, but about the numbers involved, you took to mean I was somehow "defending" the defense budget.

All I'm saying is if you think THOSE numbers are bad...


Here's a clue. You're WAAAAYYY too fixated on my defense budget comment. Think about a health care delivery system that is a huge economic drain and flushes hundred$ of billion$ down the toilet every year, and tell me how much worse it can get. I am not for a second implying we should adopt their exact system, but if Canadians spend a fraction of what we do on overhead, obviously there's a problem...

Blackflag
10-27-2009, 08:00 PM
2. Frauds and scams constitute 22 percent of healthcare waste. This means fake Medicare claims, bribes for referrals of unnecessary services etc. eat up to $200 billion annually.

3. 18 percent of healthcare waste is attributed to unnecessary paperwork and the incompetence prevalent in the administrative departments.


The government can definitely cure these two, since efficiency is the government's specialty.

I wonder how they know $200B is fraudulent, anyways? It seems like either it's fraud, and they don't pay it - or they don't know they're being defrauded. Maybe I'm expecting too much out of Medicare.

Blackflag
10-27-2009, 08:01 PM
I'm not sure what "surrending" is, but I don't think you do it by waving a hand over your head...


Look at this guy editing out one word. How dare you edit!

Nickdfresh
10-27-2009, 08:37 PM
Look at this guy editing out one word. How dare you edit!

I didn't "edit out" anything and included his entire post. Try harder not to look like a complete, petty idiot...

Nickdfresh
10-27-2009, 08:40 PM
The government can definitely cure these two, since efficiency is the government's specialty.

Maybe we should get the Canadians to run it for us, they don't seem to have these problems...


I wonder how they know $200B is fraudulent, anyways? It seems like either it's fraud, and they don't pay it - or they don't know they're being defrauded. Maybe I'm expecting too much out of Medicare.

"They" would be researchers who don't pay anything...

Blackflag
10-27-2009, 08:57 PM
I didn't "edit out" anything and included his entire post. Try harder not to look like a complete, petty idiot...

You dislike looking in the mirror, don't you?

Blackflag
10-27-2009, 08:59 PM
Maybe we should get the Canadians to run it for us, they don't seem to have these problems...


What makes you think they don't have waste?



"They" would be researchers who don't pay anything...

Well, since it's from "they," I shouldn't questions their methods or reasoning. Thanks for reminding me.

Seshmeister
10-27-2009, 09:01 PM
The US system is far more expensive than other countries though without being universal and without providing as good life expectancy as many government run systems.

That alone strongly suggests that there is a hell of a lot of needless waste in the system.

FORD
10-27-2009, 09:10 PM
60 minutes did a story on this the other night. Apparently there has been some fraud going on. And most of it coming directly from right wing Cuban exiles in the state (Florida) that has been a BCE/CIA colony since the 50's, and as a result, has some of the most lax fraud laws on the planet.

Blackflag
10-27-2009, 09:18 PM
:headlights:
:lmao:

Big Train
10-28-2009, 01:12 PM
You mean none of the left wing Cubans were commiting fraud?

Nitro Express
10-28-2009, 01:15 PM
I don't want a government that tortures people and starts illegal wars in charge of my healthcare. The new boss is pushing the old boss' agenda so I don't want his healthcare. It's like Bush ran out and had major plastic surgery and learned to read the tele-prompter better.

ELVIS
10-28-2009, 01:24 PM
No, Oblamah reads it worse...

Nitro Express
10-28-2009, 01:36 PM
No, Oblamah reads it worse...

Obama has that ivy league polish. He didn't have a rich daddy with connections to get him through school. It's actually kind of sad. Obama could have been so much more than a globalist sell out which he is.

Blackflag
10-28-2009, 01:40 PM
I don't want a government that tortures people and starts illegal wars in charge of my healthcare. The new boss is pushing the old boss' agenda so I don't want his healthcare. It's like Bush ran out and had major plastic surgery and learned to read the tele-prompter better.

That's what baffles me. One year people recognize that the government is an evil, corrupted machine...then a year later, they bury their head in the sand and believe it's going to cure all their problems. Fucking recognize it for what it is, and deal with it.

Seshmeister
10-28-2009, 01:43 PM
It baffles me that you think it's ok for the government to pay people to kill people but it's shocking and wrong to pay them not to kill people and even worse to pay them to cure people.

Blackflag
10-28-2009, 01:52 PM
It baffles me that you think it's ok for the government to pay people to kill people

And where did I say that, my baffled friend?

Big Train
10-28-2009, 01:52 PM
It baffles me that the argument gets framed in that way.

People who oppose this don't oppose the concept of helping people. We oppose the method attempted to be employed to do so as the correct way to go about it.

It's all well and good that your people have chosen to approach it that way, but in our society we don't think that this method is better than alternative approaches.

Nickdfresh
10-28-2009, 02:12 PM
And where did I say that, my baffled friend?

Oh please, let's not become BackpeddleFlag again. You know full well that this "all gov't is evil" fits into your libertarian belief system, which is fine. But you're no one to lecture on anything...

BTW, are you accusing Sesh of making a "strawman argument?" :biggrin:

standin
10-28-2009, 02:27 PM
That's what baffles me. One year people recognize that the government is an evil, corrupted machine...then a year later, they bury their head in the sand and believe it's going to cure all their problems. Fucking recognize it for what it is, and deal with it.
Wow, that sounds like a direct quote from a JW elder. The Awake in interesting, but the Watchtower is a bit dry. How far along are you? Have you started attending Theocratic Study? Did you get reinstated?

Blackflag
10-28-2009, 02:43 PM
Oh please, let's not become BackpeddleFlag again. You know full well that this "all gov't is evil" fits into your libertarian belief system, which is fine. But you're no one to lecture on anything...

BTW, are you accusing Sesh of making a "strawman argument?" :biggrin:

What? He accused me of saying it's "ok for the government to pay people to kill people." That doesn't even jive with what you just said, or my so-called "libertarian belief system." You're both just spouting illogical nonsense at this point.

Nickdfresh
10-28-2009, 02:59 PM
What? He accused me of saying it's "ok for the government to pay people to kill people." That doesn't even jive with what you just said, or my so-called "libertarian belief system." You're both just spouting illogical nonsense at this point.

Isn't that what the military is for?

Blackflag
10-28-2009, 03:03 PM
Isn't that what the military is for?

:headlights:

FORD
10-28-2009, 04:25 PM
Wow, that sounds like a direct quote from a JW elder. The Awake in interesting, but the Watchtower is a bit dry. How far along are you? Have you started attending Theocratic Study? Did you get reinstated?

Pibbles is a Jehova's Witless??

What a thoroughly pointless religion....

You can't get into Heaven, because your odds of being one of the 144,000 (out of all creation) who get there are ridiculously high.

There's no Hell, so no incentive NOT to sin, since you won't go to Heaven anyway.

The "best" you can hope for is to be resurrected to the newly "remodeled by Jehova" earth, where you get to knock on doors and peddle Awake & Watchtower magazines for eternity. Yeah, that sounds like fun. :biggrin:

Blackflag
10-28-2009, 04:39 PM
That's me. A libertarian Jehovah's Witness from Yakima.

ELVIS
10-28-2009, 04:47 PM
What a thoroughly pointless religion....

You can't get into Heaven, because your odds of being one of the 144,000 (out of all creation) who get there are ridiculously high.

There's no Hell, so no incentive NOT to sin, since you won't go to Heaven anyway.

:biggrin:

You think you're going to Heaven ??

standin
10-28-2009, 05:25 PM
Pibbles is a Jehova's Witless??

What a thoroughly pointless religion....

You can't get into Heaven, because your odds of being one of the 144,000 (out of all creation) who get there are ridiculously high.

There's no Hell, so no incentive NOT to sin, since you won't go to Heaven anyway.

The "best" you can hope for is to be resurrected to the newly "remodeled by Jehova" earth, where you get to knock on doors and peddle Awake & Watchtower magazines for eternity. Yeah, that sounds like fun. :biggrin:

;)
Well, hell for JWs is very close to what atheist believe. It simply does not exist. Hell is not being brought back from the dead. Zombie-land! Well not exactly, everyone and thing on Paradise Earth is perfect.

Heaven is for the Ruling Party (sounds like work. I was tricked a few times as a kid by the "Betty Bi's Party", that was just going to bed.) Paradise Earth is where everyone is a Witness, no sadness or death. So that would mean, Everyone is vegetarian (or doesn't eat at all) and everyone is on Prozac. :biggrin:
A charismatic's delight.:hitch:

Seshmeister
10-28-2009, 09:27 PM
You think you're going to Heaven ??

You think you are?

If I had your belief system I would have sold all my musical equipment and given the money to the poor along with the money for my broadband connection. To risk in any way eternal paradise compared to torture in hell for worldly comfort over a relatively tiny period is insane.

So like the 9-11 suicide bombers going to strip clubs the day before, you are relying on Jesus not really meaning it really absolutely. You want him to say well you kind of did a bit more than FORD by singing on Sundays for half your life.

That's kind of a mad crazy completely illogical gamble do you not think?

Choosing material possessions you get to keep for a blink of a moment compared to an eternity of misery and torture. Risking that you don't need to give away most of your stuff to the poor after all. According to the book Jesus never mentioned gay sex or marriage but he did seem be obessed with money given most of his teachings were about it.

Cheers!


:gulp:

lesfunk
10-28-2009, 09:35 PM
I've had dealings with some JWs over the years and have found them to be really decent, honest folks. Other than waking me up knocking on my door handing me buulshit pamphlets.
Those cocksucker Evangelical cultists on the other hand....

ELVIS
10-29-2009, 12:43 AM
That's kind of a mad crazy completely illogical gamble do you not think?

:gulp:

Yes, I do think along those lines...

The words of Jesus are easy to read, but they can be hard to do...

Fuct Jup
10-29-2009, 12:52 PM
Healthcare flushes $800bn down the drain annually
by Jaspreet Kaur - October 27, 2009

Washington, October 27 -- According to a report released by Thomson Reuters on Monday, the U.S. healthcare system squanders a lot of funds and approximately $505 billion to $850 billion go waste every year. Healthcare system in the country can be improved by simply taking care of the inadequacies and fighting against frauds

Thomson Reuters discovered that healthcare costs can be drastically cut down by avoiding errors, combating frauds, and repairing some of the most visible inefficiencies in the healthcare system

One-third of the country’s healthcare bill wasted: Kelley
The latest report says, “America’s healthcare system is indeed haemorrhaging billions of dollars, and the opportunities to slow the fiscal bleeding are substantial.”

Robert Kelley, Vice-President of healthcare analytics at Thomson Reuters was quoted as saying, “The bad news is that an estimated $700 billion is wasted annually. That’s one-third of the nation’s healthcare bill.”

He further added, “The good news is that by attacking waste we can reduce healthcare costs without adversely affecting the quality of care or access to care.”

Citing one example, Kelley explained that a paper-based system that does not allow the sharing of medical records leads to an increase in the yearly overspending by 6 percent.

The report by Thomson Reuters reads, “It is waste when caregivers duplicate tests because results recorded in a patient’s record with one provider are not available to another or when medical staff provides inappropriate treatment because relevant history of previous treatment cannot be accessed.”

Important findings of the new report
Following are some of the other important findings that have been mentioned in the report from Thomson Reuters:

1. Excessive use of antibiotics and lab tests to guard against mismanagement accounts for 37 percent of healthcare waste. This is equivalent to $200 to $300 billion a year.

2. Frauds and scams constitute 22 percent of healthcare waste. This means fake Medicare claims, bribes for referrals of unnecessary services etc. eat up to $200 billion annually.

3. 18 percent of healthcare waste is attributed to unnecessary paperwork and the incompetence prevalent in the administrative departments.

4. Medical mistakes lead to losses ranging between $50 billion to $100 billion.

5. Avoidable conditions such as uncontrolled diabetes cost $30 billion to $50 billion annually.

Healthcare system bad when compared to Canada's
The report also reads, “The average U.S. hospital spends one-quarter of its budget on billing and administration, nearly twice the average in Canada.”

The new report also makes a reference to the 2003 New England Journal of Medicine paper by Harvard University researcher Dr. Steffie Woolhandler, where it was found that, “American physicians spend nearly eight hours per week on paperwork and employ 1.66 clerical workers per doctor, far more than in Canada.”

Even with the presence of so much workforce, primary care doctors are not enough in the country, and the emergency services are not utilized properly. The system surely needs a brush-up if the common people have to benefit.

Healthcare flushes $800bn down the drain annually | The Money Times (http://www.themoneytimes.com/featured/20091027/healthcare-flushes-800bn-down-drain-annually-id-1088832.html)


Yea - so lets get every American under a Govt run Healthcare system that would allow for triple the fraud and waste. Go Pelosicare! :fufu:

Nitro Express
10-29-2009, 02:33 PM
Wow, that sounds like a direct quote from a JW elder. The Awake in interesting, but the Watchtower is a bit dry. How far along are you? Have you started attending Theocratic Study? Did you get reinstated?

I believe the same guy that was behind starting the Jahova's Witnesses was also behind the Skull and Bones club. Or maybe it was the Unitarian Church. I'll have to look it up.

Nitro Express
10-29-2009, 02:35 PM
Yea - so lets get every American under a Govt run Healthcare system that would allow for triple the fraud and waste. Go Pelosicare! :fufu:

I think the same corrupt insurance companies will still be in charge but the govt. will hold a gun to our heads and force us to pay a 12% plus tax. Remember when the Federal Income Tax started in 1913 it was 1%. Once you give them the authority, they pound a big log up your ass with a sledge hammer down the road.

Nitro Express
10-29-2009, 02:41 PM
Anyways. These globalist assholes are pretty obvious. They are openly talking about a new world currency, they call Obama president of the world and make him head of the UN and give him the Nobel Piece Prize, they have been promoting the hell out of a possible flu pandemic. Basically, the world could die from the flu, you are broke, Obama is the savior. In my best Darth Vader voice,"Join us and we can safe the world."

Nitro Express
10-29-2009, 02:42 PM
Aw fuck. The future is going to be an episode of Star Wars. I want to be Hans Solo.

Nickdfresh
10-29-2009, 03:33 PM
I've had dealings with some JWs over the years and have found them to be really decent, honest folks. Other than waking me up knocking on my door handing me buulshit pamphlets.
Those cocksucker Evangelical cultists on the other hand....

Who's that in your avatar? Looks like Bill Murray...

Nickdfresh
10-29-2009, 03:38 PM
Yea - so lets get every American under a Govt run Healthcare system that would allow for triple the fraud and waste. Go Pelosicare! :fufu:

Few Americans would actually qualify for "Pelosi care," but nice job ignoring the other $500-600 billion wasted largely at the behest of insurers in their paperwork claptrap...

Secondly, part of reform is beginning to tackle fraud and eliminate "Premium" Medicare to make it more of a balanced system...

ELVIS
10-29-2009, 03:41 PM
So, the Government is gonna tackle fraud ??

LMAO!!


:elvis:

Nickdfresh
10-29-2009, 03:43 PM
So, the Government is gonna tackle fraud ??

LMAO!!


:elvis:

Would you prefer Wall St. did it?

FORD
10-29-2009, 03:43 PM
The solution is obvious, but they refuse to see it.....

If Medicare covered EVERYONE, there would be much greater oversight of the system, by matter of necessity. Some of those who do such a good job for the corporate criminals now (finding ways to screw people out of their claims) could even be reassigned to find the fraud criminals. And in most cases, deport their asses back to Cuba.

ELVIS
10-29-2009, 03:50 PM
Hmmm...

Blackflag
10-29-2009, 06:15 PM
The solution is obvious, but they refuse to see it.....

If Medicare covered EVERYONE, there would be much greater oversight of the system, by matter of necessity. Some of those who do such a good job for the corporate criminals now (finding ways to screw people out of their claims) could even be reassigned to find the fraud criminals. And in most cases, deport their asses back to Cuba.

That makes good sense when you consider how good medicare is with fraud. Did you happen to read the article he posted?