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FORD
11-16-2009, 10:57 PM
Health reform's human stories
Countdown producer bears witness to America's health care shortcomings
http://msnbcmedia2.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Bylines/mugs/MSNBC%20Cable/msnbc_stockwell_richard.thumb.jpg
Rich Stockwell
Senior producer, 'Countdown'

MSNBC
updated 4:39 p.m. PT, Mon., Nov . 16, 2009

New Orleans, La. — - It happened as I watched a 50-something woman walk out, after spending several hours being attended to by volunteer doctors. "She's decided against treatment. A reasonable decision under the circumstances," the doctor tells us as she heads for the next patient. The president of the board of the National Association of Free Health Clinics tells me why: "It's stage four breast cancer, her body is filled with tumors." I don't know when that woman last saw a doctor. But I do know that if she had health insurance, the odds she would have seen a doctor long ago are much higher, and her chances for an earlier diagnosis and treatment would have been far greater.

After watching for hours as the patients moved through the clinic, it was hard to believe that I was in America.

Eighty-three percent of the patients they see are employed, they are not accepting other government help on a large scale, not "welfare queens" as some would like to have us believe. They are tax-paying, good, upstanding citizens who are trying to make it and give their kids a better life just like you and me.

Ninety percent of the patients who came through Saturday's clinic had two or more diagnoses.
Eighty-two percent had a life-threatening condition such as cardiovascular disease, diabetes, or hypertension. They are victims of a system built with corporate profits at its center, which long ago forgot the moral imperative that should drive us to show compassion to our fellow men and women.

Health reform is not about Democrats or Republicans or who can score political points for the next election, it's about people. It's about fairness and justice in a system that knows none. I'd defy even the most hardened capitalist-loving-conservative to do what I did on Saturday and continue to pretend that the system in place right now is working.

Countdown chose to highlight and raise money for the Association of Free Clinics because we knew the work they do is so vitally important and we wanted to show in real terms how great the need is. We invited several politicians to attend so they could see first hand how critical the situation is. All declined. Some explained that they talk with constituents all the time and know very well of the need for reform.

I have news for them, these people didn't need to speak. Their actions spoke far louder than any words. Having to get a check up and diagnoses at a free clinic because they have no other option tells you all you need to know. There are no words that can accurately describe the quiet desperation on the faces of the patients. Every single one I spoke to, and every one I heard talking with doctors, expressed their gratitude for the event and wished that they were held more often.

They have been given the resources in their local communities with which they can get follow up care, but they are also the few. Over 700-thousand people in Louisiana alone have no health care, most of them with jobs that don't offer insurance.

Or, worse, they have to decide whether to pay for that or food and housing. Four patients were taken out on stretchers and admitted immediately to hospitals. One woman who didn't know why she was feeling bad had a blood pressure of 280 over 180, numbness in her right arm, and "a slight headache." She now has a shot at survival, but without her attendance at the clinic, it was a matter of time before the inevitable happened.

I spoke with a nurse who was there not as a volunteer, but as a patient. He works two part time jobs at hospitals providing quality care to those who have the one thing he doesn't. Many of his patients share his condition of high blood pressure, but they are fortunate to have insurance to pay for him to care for them while he goes without.

His situation is not uncommon, he has tried for years to get more hours at one of his jobs so he will be eligible for benefits, but it hasn't happened yet. Our system of for-profit health care can't afford to give him and others benefits - might make the stock price drop a penny or two.
The last time the media gathered at that convention center, it was for a natural disaster in which our government was rendered useless due to incompetence.

This time we were there to cover a man-made disaster of even larger proportions. This is a disaster that goes largely unseen by most Americans. It is not too late for our current government to show that they are competent, and can do what the vast majority of Americans are asking them to. The incredibly dedicated people at the Association of Free Clinics told me the clinic would change me and I knew it would. None but the most hardened and heartless among us could watch that event and not be moved to action.

I have changed. I am gratified that just over one thousand people were able to get the minimal amount of care and resources for follow up. But, I am heart-sick for the many more like them who didn't have the time or didn't know that they could get care on Saturday.

They walk through their lives not knowing when the ticking time bomb might go off.
Politicians continue to tell us we are the most compassionate and caring people, and clearly we have done much good in the world. I left the event overwhelmed by the hard work and dedication of the volunteers, doctors, nurses, other medical professionals, as well as ordinary citizens who came to help. I am left with one overwhelming question: what does it say about us as a nation of people who can live in a country so rich and yet allow this to continue?

© 2009 msnbc.com
URL: Health reform's human stories - Countdown with Keith Olbermann- msnbc.com (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33975919/ns/msnbc_tv-countdown_with_keith_olbermann/)


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ELVIS
11-16-2009, 11:11 PM
I misplaced my miniature violin...

Va Beach VH Fan
11-16-2009, 11:32 PM
One woman who didn't know why she was feeling bad had a blood pressure of 280 over 180, numbness in her right arm, and "a slight headache." She now has a shot at survival, but without her attendance at the clinic, it was a matter of time before the inevitable happened.

That's amazing she's still alive....

FORD
11-16-2009, 11:47 PM
That's amazing she's still alive....

No shit! My blood pressure was a little more than half that in a routine checkup a few years ago (made the mistake of having a meeting with a hostile boss about a half hour before) and they were so alarmed by the number that they ran every test on me they could do, short of actually cutting my chest open. Fortunately, those high numbers were an isolated incident, but I was running pretty high at the time, and had to go on prescription meds for a while, and then herbals after that to get it back to normal.

Blood pressure ain't nothing to fuck around with.

FORD
11-16-2009, 11:51 PM
I misplaced my miniature violin...

Guess you missed the part about the male nurse working two jobs without insurance?

Considering this is your hometown, you might work with that guy. Or more to the point, it could well be you. How's your liver doing after years of alcohol and pills? Or do you even know the answer to that? Jesus might have delivered you from addiction, but he didn't give you any free organ transplants.

ELVIS
11-17-2009, 12:13 AM
I honestly don't know, but that wasn't me. I've had three or four jobs at one time (I'm ashamed I don't exactly remember) in the nursing field, and yes, I sure could have worked with this guy...

I don't profess to have the answer to anything, but I still have trouble with the premse of this article...


:elvis:

FORD
11-17-2009, 01:18 AM
The premise of this article is this...

"Over 700-thousand people in Louisiana alone have no health care, most of them with jobs that don't offer insurance."

You are one of those 700 thousand, even though you work in the health care industry, and by your own admisssion, have worked multiple jobs, like the nurse referenced in the article, with no health care from any of those employers.

Nurses - those who provide health care to others - have no coverage for themselves. This is YOUR reality, and you don't see a problem with it? :confused12:

ELVIS
11-17-2009, 01:22 AM
Sure I do, but we also have a Charity hospital system that accepts ANYBODY and the doctors, nurses, and the care delivered is the same as what is available for someone with a huge insurance plan...

FORD
11-17-2009, 01:40 AM
Sure I do, but we also have a Charity hospital system that accepts ANYBODY and the doctors, nurses, and the care delivered is the same as what is available for someone with a huge insurance plan...

If that's true, then why are there people walking around with stage 4 breast cancer. metastasized to the point where any treatment is pointless, or with blood pressure literally through the ceiling? Why did these people have to wait for a travelling free clinic to come to town, if adequate "charity" systems exist? And surely if you know of this system, than the nurse mentioned in the story also would have known about them.

standin
11-17-2009, 03:46 AM
Sure I do, but we also have a Charity hospital system that accepts ANYBODY and the doctors, nurses, and the care delivered is the same as what is available for someone with a huge insurance plan...

That is because Mississippi with is High per capita charitable donations, which happen to extend into Louisiana, take care of you.

Mississippi does not mind taking care of the blue collar. God knows that is what sustains Mississippi, but do not pretend that charity hospital manifest itself from nothing.

ELVIS
11-17-2009, 01:07 PM
If that's true, then why are there people walking around with stage 4 breast cancer. metastasized to the point where any treatment is pointless, or with blood pressure literally through the ceiling? Why did these people have to wait for a travelling free clinic to come to town, if adequate "charity" systems exist? And surely if you know of this system, than the nurse mentioned in the story also would have known about them.

There is no way he doesn't. Charity Hospital Of New Orleans is famous world-wide and has been responsible for many medical breakthroughs over it's course of nearly 300 years...

Charity Hospital History (http://www.mclno.org/MCLNO/Menu/Hospital/History/CharitysBeginnings.aspx)


:elvis:

ELVIS
11-17-2009, 01:10 PM
If that's true, then why are there people walking around with stage 4 breast cancer. metastasized to the point where any treatment is pointless, or with blood pressure literally through the ceiling? Why did these people have to wait for a travelling free clinic to come to town, if adequate "charity" systems exist?

There could be many reasons for those scenarios. Personal neglect, for one, who knows ??

Guitar Shark
11-17-2009, 01:14 PM
I misplaced my miniature violin...

Try looking in the vicinity of your miniature penis...

FORD
11-17-2009, 01:16 PM
So again, why are these people going without treatment, when they obviously have been in need of it for some time?

Believe me, nobody is going to live with daily chronic pain if they don't have to. I endured the worst toothaches imaginable several years ago, because I had no dental insurance and was either unemployed/underemployed/or a full time student when this happened, so there was no way I could come up with cash to pay for it. I went through this for years before I found out there was an emergency dental clinic operated by the local Catholic hospital. Hell, at that point I would have converted if they had made it a requirement for treatment.

If even the nurses have to go to the free clinic, I'm guessing there's some serious flaws in the local system.

ELVIS
11-17-2009, 01:19 PM
How can you have a system without flaws ??

FORD
11-17-2009, 01:37 PM
How can you have a system without flaws ??

You probably can't. But the best way to minimize the flaws is to take the profit motive out of the system, and make it actually about health CARE, with equal access for everybody.

ELVIS
11-17-2009, 01:45 PM
Then why not take the profit motive out of every system! We will all be one big happy world village of communism...

THAT WILL NOT WORK!

:pullinghair:

FORD
11-17-2009, 01:47 PM
It can, will, and DOES work. In every fucking "civilized" country on the planet.

Except this one :( And it's not "communism". It's common sense, and it's what Jesus would do.

ELVIS
11-17-2009, 01:52 PM
What would be the incentive to do anything as far as work without profit being a motive ??

ELVIS
11-17-2009, 01:56 PM
I always knew you had radical ideas FORD, but not that bad...

C'mon dude, wake up!

You may say to yourself, "My power and the strength of my hands have produced this wealth for me." But remember the LORD your God, for it is he who gives you the ability to produce wealth.”

Deuteronomy 8:17-18

FORD
11-17-2009, 02:02 PM
How Would Jesus Handle Health Care?

Drew Smith
Posted: Monday, July 20, 2009 5:56 am

How Would Jesus Handle Health Care? | Drew Smith, Jesus, Health Care

The test of faithfulness to Jesus is always in how we treat the vulnerable of society, Smith writes.

One of the vocations for which Jesus is best known is being a healer. The Gospels narrate stories in which he makes the blind to see, the deaf to hear and the lame to walk. He heals some of dreaded diseases and raises others from the dead. Yet, the healing narrative in Mark 5:21-43 strikes me as particularly interesting in the way it is told and for its implications for how we envision health care reform in this country.

In the hands of the author, the two stories of healing that we find in Mark 5:21-43 have become intertwined into one story. The story of Jairus, the synagogue leader, and his very ill daughter brackets the story of an unknown woman who has been hemorrhaging for 12 years.



Both stories involve females in need of healing. The number 12 is important in both. Jesus' touch plays a key role in each healing. And the theme of faith is vital to what takes place in each episode. The literary structure and details not only force us to read the stories as one story, but lead us to see one story as having meaning for the other.

Yet, when we read the stories as one, we also come away with the idea that the two individuals that come to Jesus could not be more different. Jairus, whose name we know, is a male. The woman, who remains nameless, is a female. Jairus is a leader in the synagogue, a man of great religious and political stature and influence. The unnamed woman is an outcast, who has been shunned by her community because of her disease. Jairus can come to Jesus expecting to seek healing for his daughter. The woman is disregarded by the crowd as she approaches Jesus from behind.

Perhaps one of the reasons these two stories are linked together is so that readers can face the reality that in our human existence all of us are vulnerable to sickness and death. Sickness and death are universal, and they have neither respect for people of importance nor sympathy for those who are poor. At some point in life everybody suffers pain and sickness. Therefore, at some point in our lives, we will all seek healing.

The problem, however, is that many who seek healing will never receive the care and treatment they need because they cannot afford health care coverage. In our wealthy and technologically advanced country, millions of people will not receive the health care they need because they cannot pay for such care. Tens of thousands die each year for lack of health care. Thousands of others suffer in pain and sickness because they cannot meet the expense of medical care and treatment.

Politicians have debated this issue for some time now. Currently, there are plans being put forth to reform our health care system and make quality care affordable for all. Yet, there are still those who argue that our health care system should remain as it is, market driven.



They think that the free market is the best solution to our health care problem, for in their minds competition will produce an industry that will be beneficial to all. The discussions have been reduced to political and economic debates that treat those who need health care coverage as mere numbers.

Yet, the issue of providing health care to those who do not have access to such care because of the exorbitant costs is not a political or economic issue; it is a moral issue that calls us to re-envision how we see life and human dignity.

In a market-driven system of health care, the unnamed woman would have perhaps gone untreated, but Jairus would have had the health care he needed for his daughter. After all, Jairus is a man of means. But the woman has no money left. Jesus, however, saw things differently. Jesus valued all human life as sacred to God, and he extended healing and wholeness to both the woman and Jairus' daughter.

But in stopping to heal the unnamed woman instead of proceeding straightaway to Jairus' house uninterrupted, Jesus also rebuked a system that offered preferential treatment for those like Jairus who have power, status and money. He recognized the universality of pain and suffering, and thus he desired to heal both the woman and Jairus' daughter.



He also knew the prejudices of societies that do not nurture and heal their most vulnerable members, and he stopped to affirm the value of someone who others perceived as an insignificant poor woman.

The test of faithfulness to Jesus is always in how we treat the vulnerable of society. If we are to bear authentic witness to Jesus as the healer, and to God as the giver of life, then we must embrace the value and dignity of all human beings, but especially the vulnerable of our world. In our American society, perhaps there is no greater population that is more vulnerable than those who do not have access to good and affordable health care.

It is time that Christians, and indeed people of all faiths, seriously consider this issue beyond the political battles and number crunching, to see the moral imperative of developing a system that offers to all the basic human right to quality and affordable health care.



Drew Smith, an ordained Baptist minister, is director of international programs at Henderson State University in Arkadelphia, Ark. He blogs at Wilderness Preacher.

How Would Jesus Handle Health Care? on EthicsDaily.com (http://ethicsdaily.com/news.php?viewStory=14564)

kwame k
11-17-2009, 02:04 PM
What would be the incentive to do anything as far as work without profit being a motive ??

So the people who work in the Health Care Industry, in other countries, don't bring home a paycheck? Just because it's socialized doesn't mean there's no profit.......Come on now, ELVIS!

ELVIS
11-17-2009, 02:06 PM
They can't pay for healthcare because they don't have jobs!!!

Unemployment is about to be 20&#37;!!!!!

Where are the funds going to come from for this FREE healthcare ??

Can it just be wished out of thin air ??

NO, IT CANNOT!!!

Jesus had a job, retard...


:elvis:

ELVIS
11-17-2009, 02:08 PM
So the people who work in the Health Care Industry, in other countries, don't bring home a paycheck? Just because it's socialized doesn't mean there's no profit.......Come on now, ELVIS!

I never said there wasn't. I'm trying to point out that it's not possible without profit...

C'mon now, read the posts correctly...

FORD
11-17-2009, 02:10 PM
Jesus had a job, retard...


:elvis:

He did??

He was employed by His stepdad as a carpenter as a teenager, presumably. We don't really know what He did in his 20's, but the last three years of His life, He wasn't on anybody's payroll. In fact, He was basically "homeless".

jhale667
11-17-2009, 02:13 PM
He did??

He was employed by His stepdad as a carpenter as a teenager, presumably. We don't really know what He did in his 20's, but the last three years of His life, He wasn't on anybody's payroll. In fact, He was basically "homeless".

The last three years of his life he was basically running a non-profit organization, wasn't he? ;)

ELVIS
11-17-2009, 02:15 PM
He probably remained a carpenter and had enough money saved up to feed himself and help people as he fulfilled his role as the Christ. I don't know, but that seems to make sense...

The Bible also implys that Jesus paid his taxes, so...

ELVIS
11-17-2009, 02:15 PM
The last three years of his life he was basically running a non-profit organization, wasn't he? ;)

Sure, but even that requires funds...

kwame k
11-17-2009, 02:16 PM
I never said there wasn't. I'm trying to point out that it's not possible without profit...

C'mon now, read the posts correctly...


What would be the incentive to do anything as far as work without profit being a motive ??

Again, who ever said the Health Care Industry shouldn't make a profit.....every last person who works in the field that has "socialized" Health Care brings home a paycheck......no one works for free or is that what the so called defenders of freedom are telling you?

ELVIS
11-17-2009, 02:19 PM
I don't know if you're arguing with me or not, kwame...

You must be confused because i'm saying the same thing as you...

kwame k
11-17-2009, 02:20 PM
He probably remained a carpenter and had enough money saved up to feed himself and help people as he fulfilled his role as the Christ. I don't know, but that seems to make sense...

The Bible also implys that Jesus paid his taxes, so...

Read the book again and use Context as your guide....Jesus was supported by the people and his followers, like the dude that gave him his tomb.

FORD
11-17-2009, 02:21 PM
The Bible also implys that Jesus paid his taxes, so...

Right. So why would you have a problem with "Caesar" administering a national health system, and funding it with taxes - just as they do with Medicare and Social Security?

kwame k
11-17-2009, 02:28 PM
Right. So why would you have a problem with "Caesar" administering a national health system, and funding it with taxes - just as they do with Medicare and Social Security?

....and the government regulates the companies that give you electricity, water and so on.

ELVIS
11-17-2009, 02:28 PM
Taxes from what, increasing unemployment ???

ELVIS
11-17-2009, 02:29 PM
....and the government regulates the companies that give you electricity, water and so on.

You seem to be confusing state government with federal...

kwame k
11-17-2009, 02:37 PM
You seem to be confusing state government with federal...

No I'm not.....I'm equating government as a whole running basic functions of
our daily life. They can keep the cops on the streets but God help them if they ran Health Care.

kwame k
11-17-2009, 02:39 PM
I don't know if you're arguing with me or not, kwame...

You must be confused because i'm saying the same thing as you...

Not the vibe I was picking up from you.....my bad.

FORD
11-17-2009, 02:48 PM
Taxes from what, increasing unemployment ???

Well, if you want to bring that up..... let's take the auto industry for instance....

Germany and Japan were two fucked up, defeated, US occupied nations in 1946.

Now, their car companies are doing great. Ours, not so much. Why is that?

Well one huge difference is that the occupational governments in those countries set up national health care systems, and they still have them.

Meanwhile, Chrysler, GM, and Ford (no relation) are paying their employees health care, and also that of their retirees. A good thing for them, but not for the bottom line for the companies, and not for their efficiency compared to their German and Japanese counterparts.

Now sure there are other factors involved, like Detroit making gas guzzling SUV's while the foreigners are making fuel efficient hybrids, but that all aside, the additional health care burden isn't helping any.

We were supposed to get the national health system the same time the occupational governments in Germany and Japan did, but the Repukes in Congress stopped Truman from doing it. And now, even the puppet governments of Iraq and Afghanistan have them.

Your tax dollars are paying for single payer health care in Iraq and Afghanistan, but you - as a nurse in an American hospital - have no health care.

How is that right?

ELVIS
11-17-2009, 03:40 PM
It's not right...

But what you said about Japan. The Japanese Auto industry kicked into high gear only after Honda started building their cars HERE! Even the Honda's sold in Japan are built here, or at least they were for over two decades...

LoungeMachine
11-17-2009, 03:43 PM
Well, if you want to bring that up..... let's take the auto industry for instance....

Germany and Japan were two fucked up, defeated, US occupied nations in 1946.

?

It is also amazing how strong of a REAL economy one can build when NOT worrying about paying for tanks, bombs, and jets.

:gulp:

ELVIS
11-17-2009, 03:47 PM
They were not allowed to have such luxuries...

LoungeMachine
11-17-2009, 03:48 PM
They were not allowed to have such luxuries...

Yeah, umm.....

that was my point, brighteyes

:gulp:

ELVIS
11-17-2009, 03:50 PM
Tell me more about my eyes...;)

Guitar Shark
11-17-2009, 04:00 PM
lmfao...

LoungeMachine
11-17-2009, 04:26 PM
Tell me more about my eyes...;)

When you wear the white fishnet stockings, they really sparkle.

:gulp:

ELVIS
11-17-2009, 04:34 PM
oh my...

:0

Va Beach VH Fan
11-17-2009, 06:43 PM
Ford (no relation)

LOL, you know, I bet the vast majority of people that only knew you recently have no clue what the real origin of your name is....

And no, I don't mean Found On Road Dead.... ;)

Or Fixed Or Repaired Daily.... ;)

Nitro Express
11-17-2009, 08:17 PM
Americans give more to worldwide charity than any other nation. I hate these guilt tripping articles. The real problem is corporate and political interests have become one and this is why we have monopoly pricing and nothing is done about it. I believe we need to fix our problems locally, the federal government is just making things worse with more war, more government meddling, more taxes, while the real productive jobs have been outsources. If we stay on the current course we will find ourselves in another French Revolution type situation.

Nitro Express
11-17-2009, 08:21 PM
Taxes from what, increasing unemployment ???

No. From making us government slaves. Once they take all our rights away, then it's off to the salt mines. The free health care will be free methemphetamine to make you work harder.

jhale667
11-18-2009, 12:52 AM
LOL, you know, I bet the vast majority of people that only knew you recently have no clue what the real origin of your name is....

And no, I don't mean Found On Road Dead.... ;)

Or Fixed Or Repaired Daily.... ;)


Fucked-Over Rebuilt Dodge? :D

Nickdfresh
11-18-2009, 08:47 AM
Well, he did have a website that was called "Ford Country" at one point. Did he not?

And yes, F.O.R.D. is an awesome acronym from a period of the band, and in Roth's career, that I really didn't follow...

Guitar Shark
11-18-2009, 12:16 PM
My favorite has always been "Fucker Only Runs Downhill"... :D

ELVIS
11-18-2009, 12:32 PM
I always thought it was Fried Old Retarded Dickhead...;)

FORD
11-18-2009, 12:46 PM
I always thought it was Fried Old Retarded Dickhead...;)

Actually, that's one I hadn't heard before.

ELVIS
11-18-2009, 12:49 PM
Created especially for you with love...;)

Actually, it does apply to the retard in your avatar...