Kiss Your Freedoms Goodbye If Health Care Passes

[ULTRAMAN VH]

Kiss Your Freedoms Goodbye If Health Care Passes
Why we cannot afford to sit out this fight
Andrew Napolitano | November 16, 2009

Congress recognizes no limits on its power. It doesn't care about the Constitution, it doesn't care about your inalienable rights. If this health care bill becomes law, America, life as you have known it, freedom as you have exercised it, and privacy as you have enjoyed it will cease to be.

Last week the House of Representatives voted on a 2,000 page bill to give the federal government the power to micromanage the health care of every single American. The bill will raise your taxes, steal your freedom, invade your privacy, and ration your health care. Even the Republicans have introduced their version of Obamacare Lite. It, too, if passed, will compel employers to provide coverage, bribe the states to change their court rules, and tell insurance companies whom to insure.

We do not have two political parties in this country, America. We have one party; called the Big Government Party. The Republican wing likes deficits, war, and assaults on civil liberties. The Democratic wing likes wealth transfer, taxes, and assaults on commercial liberties. Both parties like power; and neither is interested in your freedoms.

Think about it. Government is the negation of freedom. Freedom is your power and ability to follow your own free will and your own conscience. The government wants you to follow the will of some faceless bureaucrat.

When I recently asked Congressman James Clyburn, the third ranking Democrat in the House, to tell me "Where in the Constitution the federal government is authorized to regulate everyone's healthcare," he replied that most of what Congress does is not authorized by the Constitution, but they do it anyway. There you have it. Congress recognizes no limits on its power. It doesn't care about the Constitution, it doesn't care about your inalienable rights, it doesn't care about the liberties protected by the Bill of Rights, it doesn't even read the laws it writes.

America, this is not an academic issue. If this health care bill becomes law, life as you have known it, freedom as you have exercised it, privacy as you have enjoyed it, will cease to be.

When Congress takes away our freedoms, they will be gone forever. What will you do to prevent this from happening?

We Can't Sit Back and Allow the Loss of Our Freedoms

We elect the government. It works for us. As we watch the Democrats' plans for health care take shape, we can only ask how did our government get so removed, so unbridled, so arrogant that it can tell us how to live our personal lives?

On Saturday November 7, at 11 o’clock in the evening, the House of Representatives voted by a five vote margin to have the federal government manage the health care of every American at a cost of $1 trillion dollars over the next ten years.

For the first time in American history, if this bill becomes law, the Feds will force you to buy insurance you might not want, or may not need, or cannot afford. If you don’t purchase what the government tells you to buy, if you don’t do so when they tell you to do it, and if you don’t buy just what they say is right for you, the government may fine you, prosecute you, and even put you in jail. Freedom of choice and control over your own body will be lost. The privacy of your communications and medical decision making with your physician will be gone. More of your hard earned dollars will be at the disposal of federal bureaucrats.

It was not supposed to be this way. We elect the government. It works for us. How did it get so removed, so unbridled, so arrogant that it can tell us how to live our personal lives? Evil rarely comes upon us all at once, and liberty is rarely lost in one stroke. It happens gradually, over the years and decades and even centuries. A little stretch here, a cave in there, powers are slowly taken from the states and the people and before you know it, we have one big monster government that recognizes no restraint on its ability to tell us how to live. It claims the power to regulate any activity, tax any behavior, and demand conformity to any standard it chooses.

The Founders did not give us a government like the one we have today. The government they gave us was strictly limited in its scope, guaranteed individual liberty, preserved the free market, and on matters that pertain to our private behavior was supposed to leave us alone.

In the Constitution, the Founders built in checks and balances. If the Congress got out of hand, the states would restrain it. If the states stole liberty or property, the Congress would cure it. If the president tried to become a king, the courts would prevent it.

In the next few weeks, I will be giving a public class on Constitutional Law here on the Fox News Channel, on the Fox Business Network, on Foxnews.com, and on Fox Nation. In anticipation of that, many of you have asked: What can we do now about the loss of freedom? For starters, we can vote the bums out of their cushy federal offices! We can persuade our state governments to defy the Feds in areas like health care—where the Constitution gives the Feds zero authority. We can petition our state legislatures to threaten to amend the Constitution to abolish the income tax, return the selection of U.S. senators to state legislatures, and nullify all the laws the Congress has written that are not based in the Constitution.

One thing we can’t do is just sit back and take it.

Judge Andrew Napolitano is Fox News' senior judicial analyst. This article originally appeared in two parts on FoxNews.com.


reason.com

[ELVIS]

Hmmm...

It's too bad that many people that I know are more much worried and know a lot more information about what's going on in the NFL than they do with the Government and what freedom actually means. And those are the intelligent people I know...


:(

[ELVIS]

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:elvis:

[FORD]

We do not have two political parties in this country, America. We have one party; called the Big Government Party.


Wrong. We have one party, the Corporatist party.

But I wouldn't expect a Murdoch flunkie like Andy Napolitano to admit that.

[Hardrock69]

Freedom? What's that?

[FORD]

Uhh... just another word for nothing left to lose?

[ELVIS]

That's incorrect...

[FORD]

No it's not...

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[Big Train]

Is it not a "slippery slope" to require a citizen to purchase any good or service, with severe punishment hung over their head for non-compliance?

I say yes...

[FORD]

Is it not a "slippery slope" to require a citizen to purchase any good or service, with severe punishment hung over their head for non-compliance?

I say yes...

I'm on record as opposing this mandatory horseshit, but the irony of you saying this is incredible.

Paying for insurance = Bad

Paying the RIAA 100 times for the same song = Good

:biggrin:

[Big Train]

Your understanding of Economics is where you get lost sometimes.

Paying for Insurance I didn't ask for or consume=Bad

Paying for something I took=Good

[LoungeMachine]

Another UltraDouche op-ed cunt-n-paste without a fucking link?

What were the odds?

:gulp:

[LoungeMachine]

Your understanding of Economics is where you get lost sometimes.

Paying for Insurance I didn't ask for or consume=Bad

Paying for something I took=Good

Paying for 2 wars I didnt ask for = Very Bad

Paying to bail out THIEVES = Very Bad

:gulp:

[thome]

Doctors make big money.

Drug companies make big money.

Hospitals make big money.

Sick people spend big money.

"Government want" all of that money taken out of the private sector and put inside thier pockets, without doing any of the hard desperate work.

And that is Communism.

They call it, The Heath Care Act,.



End of discussion .

[LoungeMachine]

Doctors make big money.

Drug companies make big money.

Hospitals make big money.

.


I have no problems with that......

But why should Insurance Companies, who do NOTHING in regard to Healthcare but collect and dispurse money, make more than the above????

Oh, and you're still a glue-sniffing dipshit.

:gulp:

[Big Train]

Paying for 2 wars I didnt ask for = Very Bad

Paying to bail out THIEVES = Very Bad

:gulp:

Yup, that's the government for ya.

[thome]

I have no problems with that......

But why should Insurance Companies, who do NOTHING in regard to Healthcare but collect and dispurse money, make more than the above????

Oh, and you're still a glue-sniffing dipshit.

:gulp:


Insurance Companies, do the paperwork,broker the deals, and take the big risk.

-YOUR- government will become the insurance company, by taking the money out of the private sector, and that is Communism.

You got no game Loungie, just a bunch of questions that subvert the truth of the reality.

Like a 10,000 page Bill on capital hill.

That sais nothing to me except they want the money that 10 million people live off of.


You Loungie, as a American, can work for someone who carries your medical,dental,vision..... all kinds of coverage.

Or, you can carry a policy yourself.

Or you can pay as you go, cash, for that itchie ass of yours.....etc..

Or you can sit in line at thousands of Free Health Clinics.

Or you can give up all of these choices and pay anyway.

Thru taxes, taking the money out of the peoples hands (see above thome post) and give -YOUR- government the Cash staight out of your hand..

Complete end of discussion...there is nothing more but retoric...

[LoungeMachine]

Insurance Companies, do the paperwork,broker the deals, and take the big risk.

-YOUR- government will become the insurance company, by taking the money out of the private sector, and that is Communism.

...

Communism?

Time to buy a dictionary, Clem.

:gulp:

Take the big risk?????

LMMFAO


There is no risk, moron. That's why they DENY coverage and healthcare based on anything they damn well please.

You really are a simple little twat.....

:gulp:

[thome]

Communism?

Time to buy a dictionary, Clem.

:gulp:

Take the big risk?????

LMMFAO


There is no risk, moron. That's why they DENY coverage and healthcare based on anything they damn well please.

You really are a simple little twat.....

:gulp:


Ok SLICK!

Lets change the topic..

Just open your eyes to the REALITY of grading people in a government building, by thier dependence on the health care system, our government wants to make money off the interests of.

One step away from eugenics of government controll of who has children and who lives.

What companies will hire you if your doctor patient privilege is public knowlege,like your Myspace page.

Since when did the government care about one single individual like your doctor does.

Do you,Loungie,ever think of the future....just the now your mind is controlled into by the promise of freedon thru controll.

Maybe you could see it if i invented a Monopoly GAME and on the board was healthcare.

And you like the government allready owned the railroads....would you put a hotel on Park Place and Boardwalk or Own all of the healthcare system..?

What is the best move MONOPOLY.....anti TRUST MAN!

[LoungeMachine]

Ok SLICK!

Lets change the topic..

!

which is thomespeak for "fukk, i's be owned againn"

:gulp:

[ELVIS]

i guesss itz alll undar thier controll...

[Seshmeister]

You should go and live in Somalia.

It's kind of like Louisiana with the dead bodies lying in the street for weeks but you are even more free because there is no government at all.

[ELVIS]

Have you lived there ??

[Seshmeister]

I wouldn't want to.

I'm not the one saying that having a civilized welfare system means you have no freedom.

[FORD]

You should go and live in Somalia.

It's kind of like Louisiana with the dead bodies lying in the street for weeks but you are even more free because there is no government at all.

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[Dr. Love]

Kiss Your Freedoms Goodbye If Health Care Passes
Why we cannot afford to sit out this fight
Andrew Napolitano | November 16, 2009

Congress recognizes no limits on its power. It doesn't care about the Constitution, it doesn't care about your inalienable rights. If this health care bill becomes law, America, life as you have known it, freedom as you have exercised it, and privacy as you have enjoyed it will cease to be.

Last week the House of Representatives voted on a 2,000 page bill to give the federal government the power to micromanage the health care of every single American. The bill will raise your taxes, steal your freedom, invade your privacy, and ration your health care. Even the Republicans have introduced their version of Obamacare Lite. It, too, if passed, will compel employers to provide coverage, bribe the states to change their court rules, and tell insurance companies whom to insure.

We do not have two political parties in this country, America. We have one party; called the Big Government Party. The Republican wing likes deficits, war, and assaults on civil liberties. The Democratic wing likes wealth transfer, taxes, and assaults on commercial liberties. Both parties like power; and neither is interested in your freedoms.

Think about it. Government is the negation of freedom. Freedom is your power and ability to follow your own free will and your own conscience. The government wants you to follow the will of some faceless bureaucrat.

When I recently asked Congressman James Clyburn, the third ranking Democrat in the House, to tell me "Where in the Constitution the federal government is authorized to regulate everyone's healthcare," he replied that most of what Congress does is not authorized by the Constitution, but they do it anyway. There you have it. Congress recognizes no limits on its power. It doesn't care about the Constitution, it doesn't care about your inalienable rights, it doesn't care about the liberties protected by the Bill of Rights, it doesn't even read the laws it writes.

America, this is not an academic issue. If this health care bill becomes law, life as you have known it, freedom as you have exercised it, privacy as you have enjoyed it, will cease to be.

When Congress takes away our freedoms, they will be gone forever. What will you do to prevent this from happening?

We Can't Sit Back and Allow the Loss of Our Freedoms

We elect the government. It works for us. As we watch the Democrats' plans for health care take shape, we can only ask how did our government get so removed, so unbridled, so arrogant that it can tell us how to live our personal lives?

On Saturday November 7, at 11 o’clock in the evening, the House of Representatives voted by a five vote margin to have the federal government manage the health care of every American at a cost of $1 trillion dollars over the next ten years.

For the first time in American history, if this bill becomes law, the Feds will force you to buy insurance you might not want, or may not need, or cannot afford. If you don’t purchase what the government tells you to buy, if you don’t do so when they tell you to do it, and if you don’t buy just what they say is right for you, the government may fine you, prosecute you, and even put you in jail. Freedom of choice and control over your own body will be lost. The privacy of your communications and medical decision making with your physician will be gone. More of your hard earned dollars will be at the disposal of federal bureaucrats.

It was not supposed to be this way. We elect the government. It works for us. How did it get so removed, so unbridled, so arrogant that it can tell us how to live our personal lives? Evil rarely comes upon us all at once, and liberty is rarely lost in one stroke. It happens gradually, over the years and decades and even centuries. A little stretch here, a cave in there, powers are slowly taken from the states and the people and before you know it, we have one big monster government that recognizes no restraint on its ability to tell us how to live. It claims the power to regulate any activity, tax any behavior, and demand conformity to any standard it chooses.

The Founders did not give us a government like the one we have today. The government they gave us was strictly limited in its scope, guaranteed individual liberty, preserved the free market, and on matters that pertain to our private behavior was supposed to leave us alone.

In the Constitution, the Founders built in checks and balances. If the Congress got out of hand, the states would restrain it. If the states stole liberty or property, the Congress would cure it. If the president tried to become a king, the courts would prevent it.

In the next few weeks, I will be giving a public class on Constitutional Law here on the Fox News Channel, on the Fox Business Network, on Foxnews.com, and on Fox Nation. In anticipation of that, many of you have asked: What can we do now about the loss of freedom? For starters, we can vote the bums out of their cushy federal offices! We can persuade our state governments to defy the Feds in areas like health care—where the Constitution gives the Feds zero authority. We can petition our state legislatures to threaten to amend the Constitution to abolish the income tax, return the selection of U.S. senators to state legislatures, and nullify all the laws the Congress has written that are not based in the Constitution.

One thing we can’t do is just sit back and take it.

Judge Andrew Napolitano is Fox News' senior judicial analyst. This article originally appeared in two parts on FoxNews.com.


reason.com

Please enumerate for me the freedoms that I will lose. Thanks.

[Big Train]

That's easy if this "enforcement" amendment passes.

It's easy, under the same logic being offered now to imagine bans on all sorts of things which will "Burden" the system that are now considered personal choices. Food choices, smoking, drinking all could be restricted or banned for the reasons that you will unfairly burden the system.

The same way a home insurer can say they will cancel your ins. for various safety infractions, thereby putting you on the wrong side of the law. I can see them saying, "Quit smoking or your public option will be cancelled and you will be forced to buy a policy at insane rates from a private (what is left of them) ins.

[Dr. Love]

I'm struggling to see this happen ... and I'm just not seeing it. There's too many examples of someone doing something dumb in the government, causing a big public outrage, causing politicians to sieze the opportunity, causing whatever dumb action that happened originally to be reversed.

[Big Train]

It's very easy to see, on both sides of the aisle. From Californias recent regs regarding the size of your big screen to Mayor Bloomberg's regulation of trans fats in NYC, cigar club bans, the power grabs of personal freedoms are everywhere. Inserting a government mandate with jailtime being thought of as "Fair" by Pelosi, we aren't in La La Land imagining this stuff as being far off.

They would have the mechanism to enforce new controls.

[LoungeMachine]

Please enumerate for me the freedoms that I will lose. Thanks.

:lmao:

Ultradouche doesnt exactly know.

Which is why you never see him post his own thoughts or opinions in his own cut and paste threads.......

:gulp:

[thome]

:lmao:

Ultradouche doesnt exactly know.

Which is why you never see him post his own thoughts or opinions in his own cut and paste threads.......

:gulp:


That is all you ever did for years and now you just take the words you are controlled with and place them is a personal context.



LoungeMachine:which is thomespeak for "fukk, i's be owned againn"

No Loungie, what it is, I's a said, I said, end of discussion.

New subject........... and you cannot answer my posted question

Candy Pants Machine won't answer question posed, then acts like I am the one who doesn't get it.LOL.

Your own little mind can't grasp the big questions, only the answers placed in your tiny little brain by the TV.

[jhale667]

:lmao:

Ultradouche doesnt exactly know.

Which is why you never see him post his own thoughts or opinions in his own cut and paste threads.......

:gulp:

He has gone on record regarding his love for jet-black muff. Just sayin'. :D

[ULTRAMAN VH]

Please enumerate for me the freedoms that I will lose. Thanks.

Everyone is caught up in the here and now and not looking at the damage this bill will do further down the road. The government is pressing for the public option because they know their plan will, over time choke out the private sector giving them a monopolist control over health care. Don't know what your health care plan is, but I like the freedom to choose and shop for a plan that works for me. The government will basically state that it is their way or the highway.

[ULTRAMAN VH]

He has gone on record regarding his love for jet-black muff. Just sayin'. :D

And the problem is?:biggrin:

[ELVIS]

I laugh when Reid actually states that this bill will "strengthen Medicare."

I guess they think we're all just stupid and not paying attention to anything...

[Seshmeister]

That's easy if this "enforcement" amendment passes.

It's easy, under the same logic being offered now to imagine bans on all sorts of things which will "Burden" the system that are now considered personal choices. Food choices, smoking, drinking all could be restricted or banned for the reasons that you will unfairly burden the system.

The same way a home insurer can say they will cancel your ins. for various safety infractions, thereby putting you on the wrong side of the law. I can see them saying, "Quit smoking or your public option will be cancelled and you will be forced to buy a policy at insane rates from a private (what is left of them) ins.


That would be terrible but considering they can hardly get a shitty watered down bill through how is this straw dog of a nightmare going to happen?

[LoungeMachine]

Everyone is caught up in the here and now and not looking at the damage this bill will do further down the road. The government is pressing for the public option because they know their plan will, over time choke out the private sector giving them a monopolist control over health care. Don't know what your health care plan is, but I like the freedom to choose and shop for a plan that works for me. The government will basically state that it is their way or the highway.

wtf?

:hee:

[Dr. Love]

Everyone is caught up in the here and now and not looking at the damage this bill will do further down the road. The government is pressing for the public option because they know their plan will, over time choke out the private sector giving them a monopolist control over health care. Don't know what your health care plan is, but I like the freedom to choose and shop for a plan that works for me. The government will basically state that it is their way or the highway.

Okay, but which freedoms are they going to wind up taking away from me (beyond the choice thing, I thought this was going to cost me a lot of my freedoms)? And why would I want to put the state of my health in the hands of a corporation who is in it for the money vs a non-profit system that is in it to help people?

Is the point of healthcare is to keep people healthy and living, or to make money? While they may seem like both goals are achievable I think what has been proven is that while that sounds possible in theory, it doesn't pan out in practice.

There are types of services that shouldn't be done for profit. I think health care is one of them.

[Nickdfresh]

Your understanding of Economics is where you get lost sometimes.

Paying for Insurance I didn't ask for or consume=Bad

Paying for something I took=Good

Doesn't one have to have insurance to drive?

[Seshmeister]

That's a good point.

Those bastards have already taken away the freedom to be legally crashed into by an uninsured driver.

And the freedom to shoot people in the face.

Where will it all end?

[Nickdfresh]

I laugh when Reid actually states that this bill will "strengthen Medicare."

I guess they think we're all just stupid and not paying attention to anything...

The goal is to strengthen Medicare overall by essentially weakening Medicare "Advantage," which disproportionately saps resources for questionable gain...

[FORD]

The whole problem with Medicare is that it's about to get the entire "Baby Boomer" generation dumped on it. This is why the insurance whores went into panic mode and lobbied the shit out of this whole thing to get the stupid goddamned mandates. Like the tobacco companies, they need to draft a whole new customer base.

The most efficient way to save medicare AND improve health care at the same time would be to tell the corporations to go fuck themselves, extend Medicare to everyone, and solve the funding problem, as everyone currently playing premiums to some piece of shit making $57,000 an hour would instead be paying into a national health system.

It's not communism, it's common fucking sense.

[Big Train]

Doesn't one have to have insurance to drive?

I did not realize the act of driving legally was now a fundamental right.

Last I checked, nobody had to be paid up to keep current on their birthright of being a citizen in good standing. Until this bill came along at least...

[Nickdfresh]

I did not realize the act of driving legally was now a fundamental right.

Why wouldn't "driving legally" be a right?


Last I checked, nobody had to be paid up to keep current on their birthright of being a citizen in good standing. Until this bill came along at least...

No, it's they're birthright to be ripped off by gov't bribing insurance companies operating on a profit motive regarding their health and well being...

[Big Train]

That would be terrible but considering they can hardly get a shitty watered down bill through how is this straw dog of a nightmare going to happen?

All that has to happen for this "Straw dog" is for the enforcement bit to be enacted in the bill.

[Big Train]

Why wouldn't "driving legally" be a right?

You should be a DUI lawyer. Since that right can be taken away for various infractions, it is what is known as a privilege.

No, it's they're birthright to be ripped off by gov't bribing insurance companies operating on a profit motive regarding their health and well being...

Right, when they could just send their check directly to the government for the same services of bribing and ripping off.

[Nickdfresh]

Right, when they could just send their check directly to the government for the same services of bribing and ripping off.

Well, it wouldn't take a DUI lawyer to figure out that driving under the influence is illegal and thus not "legally" driving...

Oh, okay. So being ripped off by a for profit using your funds to buy off the gov't is worse than paying taxes?

[Big Train]

Well, it wouldn't take a DUI lawyer to figure out that driving under the influence is illegal and thus not "legally" driving...

No it wouldn't be, but your argument that it is his RIGHT to drive is a good place to start for a DUI lawyer. Since it is his RIGHTto, they can't take it away.

Oh, okay. So being ripped off by a for profit using your funds to buy off the gov't is worse than paying taxes?

Yes, amazingly. The government is less efficient on damn near every activity it engages in.

[Dr. Love]

I don't think this is like being required to carry auto insurance. More like being required to wear a seat belt. Or smoking being banned in restaurants.

Such an oppressive country we live in, now that I think about it. :(

[LoungeMachine]

Yes, amazingly. The government is less efficient on damn near every activity it engages in.

Only when the RePukes are in charge of running [ruining] it.....

Or by like passing reacharounds to The Pharm Lobby like Medicare Part D which the Repukes made sure we couldnt NEGOTIATE for lower drug prices.

You're an idiot, BT

Time for another goodbye thread, I hope?

:gulp:

[Big Train]

I guess we are just gonna ignore all the current reacharounds in this Dem controlled bill coming up.

No plans to leave. I guess I could take a break from posting since it seems to get you all upset and all.

[ELVIS]

I don't think this is like being required to carry auto insurance. :(

No, it's worse!

You will be fined or potentially imprisoned for not having the insurance...

Employers will have little to no incentive to provide insurance to employees...

Each taxpayer will by deducted 2&#37; - 2.5% of their gross income regardless of their policy...

Doctors and specific care will be Government mandated, regulated and rationed to specific age groups and other determining criteria...

Vaccinations and prescribed (or ordered!) medication will not be a choice or an option...

Every citizen will be manipulated or forced to pay into the population reduction abortion scam...

Nursing Home residents will be cut nearly completely off and left to take a pill over having a procedure performed...

Girls will be forced to take the Gardasil injection, but will not be checked for cervical cancer and women will not be able to have a mammogram until years later than what is the norm today...possibly age 50!!!


I can go on and on, and I just want people to be aware...

It wouldn't even be as bad if this was just a socalist aproach and the government had our best interests in mind, BUT THAT IS NOT THE CASE!


This is a scam!


:mad:

[Satan]

Actually the "socialist" approach would be a most unholy improvement over the corporatist clusterfuck that seems likely now.

Fortuantely, we have no such problems here with HellCare. Everyone is treated equally down here.

[ELVIS]

Actually the "socialist" approach would be a most unholy improvement over the corporatist clusterfuck that seems likely now.



That's what I just said...

I can't believe I just thanked satan...:biggrin:

[ULTRAMAN VH]

Actually the "socialist" approach would be a most unholy improvement over the corporatist clusterfuck that seems likely now.

Fortuantely, we have no such problems here with HellCare. Everyone is treated equally down here.

Socialism is great until you run out of someone else's money.

[ELVIS]

Margaret Thatcher...and she was 100&#37; correct!!!

[Satan]

Socialism is great until you run out of someone else's money.

Isn't that the motto engraved in marble over the front doors of Halliburton, Inc.?

[ELVIS]

You should know...

[Satan]

Everybody assumes that if something's "evil" that means I'm to blame for it. You mortals really gotta start taking responsibility for your own sins. http://www.cosgan.de/images/smilie/teufel/d085.gif

[Nickdfresh]

No, it's worse!

You will be fined or potentially imprisoned for not having the insurance...
...


This is a scam!


:mad:

You're a complete mental case. There is no "imprisonment" and there are exemptions allowed from the fines...

[thome]

You're a complete mental case. There is no "imprisonment" and there are exemptions allowed from the fines...

You are wrong and a Facist if you are for this.

“Employer Requirement, as for small businesses, insurance currently covers 61% of non elderly people. Employers (99%), are covered, with 200 or more employees offer health insurance to their employees.”.

The above paragraph is as of right now.

The proposed reform act will require; is designed to build on the current coverage by encouraging smaller businesses to carry employee insurance or penalize them for non-compliance with a federal act.

This compliance will be collected from small businesses in a government “pool” that helps pay for the bills of the non-insured.

mmmmmmmmm...government pool.......that is a technical term for pockets...

You got no game at all.

[LoungeMachine]

...

You got no game at all.

Get a job.

:gulp:

dolt.

[ELVIS]

You're a complete mental case. There is no "imprisonment" and there are exemptions allowed from the fines...

Section 7201 — felony willful evasion is punishable by a fine of up to $250000 and/or imprisonment of up to five years.

Screw you, dumbass...

[jhale667]

felony willful evasion

Sounds a little more harsh than if someone was just saying "I can't afford it"...what exactly constitutes "felony willful evasion"? :umm:

[Seshmeister]

Socialism is great until you run out of someone else's money.

http://www.armscontrolcenter.org/policy/securityspending/articles/us_vs_world.gif

[Big Train]

Sesh, for the sake of argument and since you seem to find flowcharts quickly, what is the breakout for the UK by way of comparison?

[Nickdfresh]

Section 7201 — felony willful evasion is punishable by a fine of up to $250000 and/or imprisonment of up to five years.

Screw you, dumbass...


Oh, okay. So who goes to jail again, spermmaster?


(CBS) Cathy Elkins lost her job six months ago and now volunteers at a Virginia food bank. With an income of $13,000 a year, she can't afford health insurance.

"Anything could pop up at any time and could ruin me," she said.

Under the Senate's proposed health care bill, she'd qualify for free health insurance.

The bill extends Medicaid benefits to Americans making up to 133 percent of the poverty level. In Cathy's state, Virginia, that means individuals making less than $14,000 or families making less than $29,000.

Americans making more than that - up to roughly $88,000 per family - would get tax credits to help them afford private insurance.

The lower your income, the more help you'd get. Credits would be worth anywhere from a couple hundred dollars a year to thousands.

But those who don't purchase insurance (even with those incentives) will face fines - $75 the first year, $350 the second, and $750 after that.
...

What's in the Senate Health Bill for You? - CBS News (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/11/20/politics/main5721273.shtml)

[ELVIS]

Tax credits ??

yeah right...

[Seshmeister]

Sesh, for the sake of argument and since you seem to find flowcharts quickly, what is the breakout for the UK by way of comparison?

My point is I don't understand why government spending on health care is evil, robs you of freedom and is inherently wasteful and inefficient whereas spending on the military isn't.

It's difficult to get nice graphs to compare exactly the US-UK comparisons on spending because most places split federal spending from state spending.

The broad figures are that the US government spends more on defense than health care. A lot more if you include stuff like military pensions.

The UK government spends 3 times more on health care than on defense. Remember the UK spends more on defense than most.

The US spends more on defense than the next highest 15 countries combined. The funny thing is of that 15 fucking 12 are US allies!

If the US normalized it's defense spending to just more than everyone else but not more than everyone else combined then you could have free health care for everyone. This would take a huge weight off employers and make the US far more competitive. Change soldiers into health care professionals and spending on military hardware into spending on health care infrastructure.

Why is it you are so upset about non US citizens getting free health care yet it's ok for tens of thousands of Iraqi militia to get free wages just to not be insurgents?

Why is it that spending a few million bucks on an MRI machine at a Medicare hospital is wasteful but spending the same on a smart weapon to blow up an Afghan wedding is just great?



Cheers!

:gulp:

[Nickdfresh]

Yeah, the health care bill will cost as about as much over a decade as about two years of military spending...

[Seshmeister]

The most efficient way to save medicare AND improve health care at the same time would be to tell the corporations to go fuck themselves, extend Medicare to everyone, and solve the funding problem, as everyone currently playing premiums to some piece of shit making $57,000 an hour would instead be paying into a national health system.

It's not communism, it's common fucking sense.

And a 1 page bill.

[Dr. Love]

You are wrong and a Facist if you are for this.

Wow, I've never been a fascist before! How exciting!

[Nickdfresh]

YOU'RE not the 'fascist!' I am! Stop stealing my glorious fascism-moniker Dr. Love and go blow a shark!! :pullinghair:

[Dr. Love]

you go suck a shark's dick you french socialist!

http://knowyourmeme.com/i/2326/original/ze_francais.jpg?1242521718

;)

[Nickdfresh]

That's it!! You're officially banned from the Amerikan Fascist Party and our insidious, genocidal plan to provide health insurance to every American....

Imagine that! Making sure everyone has affordable health insurance! It will make evil Nazi plans such as putting Jews in gas chambers and starving Soviet POWs to death seem so tame and passe!

[GAR]

Fuck mandatory insured-anything!

Healthcare.
Auto.
Home.

Fuck the insurance industry - they're hamstringing all your stupid asses you don't even know it!

[GAR]

Why is it not reported in the media this is all about insurance is beyond me.

Who fucking cares if you do or don't have insurance? I don't. I eat healthy and keep fit. I haven't seen a doctor in over a decade.

If I do, I'll go to the physician's clinic I went to as a kid - they got my chart in there *somefuckingwhere* and guess what my people?

They all take cash. Every one of 'em.

Know what else besides keep fit and healthy I do that makes me think I know more than the media does about health insurance?

I don't drink or do drugs.

I rarely take an aspirin or a tylenol because all drugs are bad for you as they fuck up your organs.

I kinda need my organs to filter, process and function. I like being able to spot up the ceiling when I blow a load. I like being able to get on a surfboard and stay out there for hours and hours.

Why my taxes would have to wipe ass for people who don't take care of themselves and their doctors who wanna prescribe all noxious sorts of bullshit that only kill you off quicker, I don't know but it's not fair one bit.

[thome]

Get a job.

:gulp:

dolt.

SIGN ZEE PAPERS OLD MAN!!!

I cannot sign zee paper ......

SIGN ZEE PAPERS OLD MAN!!!

I cannot sign zee papers....

WHY!!!

You have broken all my fingers...

FacistSpeakMachine:pullinghair:
:fufu:

[Nickdfresh]

...

I rarely take an aspirin or a tylenol because all drugs are bad for you as they fuck up your organs.



Yes, but...you're generally regarded to be a retarded Wiki-shithead and no one gives a fuck about what you do or your opinions....


Why my taxes would have to wipe ass for people who don't take care of themselves and their doctors who wanna prescribe all noxious sorts of bullshit that only kill you off quicker, I don't know but it's not fair one bit.

Don't worry bro. Your taxes ain't goin' up....

[Nickdfresh]

you go suck a shark's dick you french socialist!

http://knowyourmeme.com/i/2326/original/ze_francais.jpg?1242521718

;)

They always ask to have their "DIIIIICK sucked," but I never actually see a penis...

[GAR]

http://www.armscontrolcenter.org/policy/securityspending/articles/us_vs_world.gif

Four percent of US GDP on Defense is supposed to be a problem?

[Nickdfresh]

Gee GAR, you seem to be pissing yourself over what would be 1&#37; of the annual GDP (using your own figures you've no doubt pulled from your ass crack from between the cheek and your head)...

[Dr. Love]

They always ask to have their "DIIIIICK sucked," but I never actually see a penis...

you homo, try to check out shark cock... ;)

[Big Train]

My point is I don't understand why government spending on health care is evil, robs you of freedom and is inherently wasteful and inefficient whereas spending on the military isn't.

Ok, please don't project another point i didn't address on something I feel strongly about. I never said how I felt about military spending in this conversation. But, if you want to know, I do feel it is due for trimming and/or a plan overhaul.

It's difficult to get nice graphs to compare exactly the US-UK comparisons on spending because most places split federal spending from state spending.

The broad figures are that the US government spends more on defense than health care. A lot more if you include stuff like military pensions.

The UK government spends 3 times more on health care than on defense. Remember the UK spends more on defense than most.

The US spends more on defense than the next highest 15 countries combined. The funny thing is of that 15 fucking 12 are US allies!

There is no UK budget graph your saying readily available? You seem to have the figures, so I'm curious where they come from. I'm not doubting the overall ratios though, I'm sure they are right.

If the US normalized it's defense spending to just more than everyone else but not more than everyone else combined then you could have free health care for everyone. This would take a huge weight off employers and make the US far more competitive. Change soldiers into health care professionals and spending on military hardware into spending on health care infrastructure.

That's a rosier scenario than I would imagine, given our political entanglements around the world and not feasible in the near future.

Why is it you are so upset about non US citizens getting free health care yet it's ok for tens of thousands of Iraqi militia to get free wages just to not be insurgents?

Why is it that spending a few million bucks on an MRI machine at a Medicare hospital is wasteful but spending the same on a smart weapon to blow up an Afghan wedding is just great?


Cheers!

:gulp:

It's not. We weren't talking about these things, but you can tack on a presumed position I have about it I suppose. Why would you think I would feel this way about the military items above when we have never discussed them?