Coyote's Build

[Coyote]

Might as well start a thread for this...

Alright, so here's what I ordered from Musikraft some three weeks ago:

Neck
Scale: 25-1/2" Standard Fender
Number of Frets: 22 With FB Extenion
Nut Width: 1-11/16"
Heel Width: Custom 2-1/4"
Neck Wood: Quarter Sawn Maple
Tuner Hole Size: Gotoh/Scaller/Sperzel 10 mm
Trussrod Option: Duel Acting Adjust at Heel
Finger Board Radius: Compound 12-16
Finger Board Inlay Top: Black Phenolic
Finger Board Inlay Side Markers: Black
12th Dot Spacing: Narrow Post 1964
Fret Size and Type: Jumbo Stainless
Nut Style: Floyd W/O Holes
Back Profile: Chunkey U .90 to .90
Finish: Tung Oil
Additional Options: Semi Rolled Finger Board Edges, 4 Neck Mouting Holes Drilled

Body
1 Pc Mahogany
Neck Pickup: Strat Single Coil
Mid Pickup: None
Bridge Pickup: Humbucker
Bridge Rout: Recessed Floyd
Control Route: Rear (Charvel Style)
Jack Style: Side (7/8")
neck pocket: 2-1/4"


On the same night, also ordered an OFR from Warmoth and a brass Big Block (along with some noiseless springs) from FloydUpgrades (http://www.floydupgrades.com).

After getting the important bits, and a sixpack of "thought work", I found myself ordering the following from Thomann (http://www.thomann.de):
Graph Tech saddles for the Floyd, one Goldo Back Box (trem stabilizer), a Duncan Triple Shot, a Dimarzio True Velvet, a Dimarzio ClipLock strap and various other parts. (electronics, neckplate, etc.)

Unfortunately, they didn't have Custom Trembuckers (TB-5) in stock.
However... A visit to a local music store turned out to be fruitful.
I had 75€ left over from an order I had canceled, so I asked them to order up a TB-5 instead. (Which I'm picking up tomorrow.)

The Thomann package arrived today, here's to waiting for the other packages... :picknose:



Now, as far as the paintjob... A little something like this (http://www.vintagekramer.com/mine/ratcharvel2.jpg)

And I'll figure out how to do the scales without a "tapejob from hell" approach...


To Be Continued...

[kwame k]

I thought someone here had an easy way to do scales......was it cheese cloth or something like that?

Take tons of pics, dude! Can't wait to see the progress.

[Coyote]

I thought someone here had an easy way to do scales......was it cheese cloth or something like that?

No cheese allowed on this axe, dude... :D

But seriously, I think fishnet stockings might do the trick.



Take tons of pics, dude! Can't wait to see the progress.

'Course I will!

[jhale667]

No cheese allowed on this axe, dude... :D

But seriously, I think fishnet stockings might do the trick.



Actually, fishnet stockings may stick to the finish faster than you think it (plus it would probably gum up fast, too); you'd probably be better off (and this is how I've seen it done in paint tutorials online and from articles about Jackson guitars, etc.) using some sort of metal-mesh/fencing with holes in the latticework that would create the desired scale pattern, like one could probably find at a hardware store....

:guitar:

[Coyote]

Spit 'n' chickenwire, eh? :biggrin:

Which reminds me, I gotta find some copper/aluminum foil for the control cavity...

[kwame k]

:lmao: I did say cheese.......sorry guys!

[Coyote]

Actually, fishnet stockings may stick to the finish faster than you think it (plus it would probably gum up fast, too); you'd probably be better off (and this is how I've seen it done in paint tutorials online and from articles about Jackson guitars, etc.) using some sort of metal-mesh/fencing with holes in the latticework that would create the desired scale pattern, like one could probably find at a hardware store....

:guitar:

Problem being how to get it to wrap around the body...
(Assuming it ain't flexible...)

[jhale667]

Problem being how to get it to wrap around the body...
(Assuming it ain't flexible...)

Don't think that's the way you'd do it, from what I've seen; think you use a smaller section (probably large enough to cover one side at a time,and a airbrush in the example I saw) and do it like a puzzle, essentially - making sure the "scales" line up as you paint each successive patch until you're done...the bitch would/will probably making the sides of the body match up with the front and back, but you'll finger it out...:biggrin:

Couldn't find the original one I saw, found two where the photobucket account the pics were linked to was "inactive". Thought I'd seen one on Frankenstraat.com but his site's down...again. Stayed up a whole month this time, thought he was back up and running... :rolleyes:

But I did find this one, maybe you've already seen it? If not, here it is again:

Snake Skin Paint (http://www.paintballlibrary.com/main2/page_10753.html)

In their example they're doing it on a gun, but it'd be almost if not the same principle, right?

http://www.paintballlibrary.com/main2/img_1211949869_15225_1220047171_mod_378_259.jpg

http://www.paintballlibrary.com/main2/img_1211949869_15226_1220047223_mod_384_288.jpg

http://www.paintballlibrary.com/main2/img_1211949869_15230_1220047430_mod_384_288.jpg

http://www.paintballlibrary.com/main2/img_1211949869_15231_1220047453_mod_384_288.jpg

"Here is a how to on a very simple yet effective paint-job called snake skin. This is a great alternative to other camo patterns because you do not have to cut out stencils.

Stuff you might want:

Spray Paint (I used rustoleum camouflage series)

Colors I used: Khaki, forest green, earth brown, and black

Netting (this can be tough to find, I used the netting from a dump bag, which you can probably find in the camping aisle of Wal-Mart")

So....Is there an equivalent of Wal-Mart "across the pond" as they say? ;)


:guitar:

[Diamondjimi]

Damn J, that paint job on the gun looks fuckin bad ass! The same on a guitar in a matt or low sheen finish would look sweet. If I were to do one, I'd probably go with a non traditional colour scheme.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Xb5mh5BjcAo/SKA9OjzjhII/AAAAAAAAAtA/NP49-rFWN04/s400/5-exotic-snake.jpg

http://www.petmonologues.com/pet022207/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/boa_tree1.jpg

[jhale667]

I've always wanted to build one and do it in real snakeskin, but it would be very un-PC these days, especially in LA ...mentioned it around a girl I know who's involved with animal rescue and the ASPCA & she told me she would kick my ass if I ever did...:hee:

I mean, I'm all for saving puppies and kittens and whatnot, but man-eating reptiles? Y'know, giant Anacondas (which is what I want, like Warren D's in the "Lay it Down" video), Pythons (which is what I'm pretty sure his favorite one is), and Boas, y'know -the only ones that get BIG enough to be able to cover a body and headstock from the same piece....? Uh, fuck them! :D

I'm sure everyone's seen the pic on Rotten.com of the snake they killed in Colombia, think it was, where a worker that was helping clear-cut some land wandered off a little too far on lunch, took a nap by a tree and became lunch himself for a giant boa (thing was like 18ft long or some shit -they'd cut it open to get the dude's body out, and there was still LOTS of uninterrupted snake body left)? Someone (me!..lol) coulda used the skin off that one....

There's also a YouTube floating around where someone stumbled on to one in mid-swallow of a baby HIPPO (pretty sure that's what it's eating)...they startle the thing, it pukes it up and bails? A baby hippo, fer cryin' out loud? One less of those, that's all I'm sayin'...!


Can't wait to see the progress on Coyote's build, though! I know you're gonna post mass pics, too...:baaa:

[GAR]

Warren DeMartini's "Rattler" snakeskin job was done with the metal mesh called "k-lathe."

It's used to apply concrete and mortar to walls and surfaces in preparation for tilework.

[jhale667]

The Anaconda one's in a Hard Rock Cafe somewhere, last I heard, and he retired the Python one...would you be referring to this one?

http://www.metal-rules.com/interviews/images/RATT_WARREN.jpg

[GAR]

Right, whichever one was made in the 80's.. maybe both who cares.

You can spray the base color black, brown, grey, or a mottled blotch of several dark colors.

Then with an airbrush or a touchup gun, you can sorta "fill in" a range of cells as you see fit with the lighter colors: gold, silver, white, yellow etc. as you like.

One gal at the factory had a xeroxed transparency of the main pattern, which she airbrushed the pattern of the diamond rows onto a white-painted K-Lathe sheet, kept as a "master template."

The transparency was the template, not the K-lathe. Although I suppose once you filled in the rows and were carefull, you could redo it over and over as a template. But the transparency shot onto the guitar body from an overhead projector makes any pattern easy.

The same method did the Jack Daniel's, Budwieser and Heineken beer labels.. b & w transparency shot onto taped-over guitar body and traced with pencil and the colored areas peeled off in layers or filled over with new tape in other layers.

[Coyote]

So....Is there an equivalent of Wal-Mart "across the pond" as they say? ;)


:guitar:

Sort of a "Cheap-O-Mart"... I've yet to find a camping section, though...

And yeah, I remember seeing that paintball link.

[jhale667]

Sort of a "Cheap-O-Mart"... I've yet to find a camping section, though...

And yeah, I remember seeing that paintball link.


Figured so, but also figured couldn't hurt. ;)
Camping industry not big over there, huh? Europeans don't do that shit anymore? Really?
"Y'all don't do a buncha huntin' and feeshin', do ya" I guess...:D Or maybe it's just your local "Cheap-O-Mart"...if they're anything like Wal-mart (or any other huge ass US chain store), ask 'em if they can pull the inventory from another location, y'know? lol

Well, on a positive note, say GAR's right (it could happen) about the product name, now you can at least see if you can find it locally...or at least someplace that will ship it to ya cheap...


Did you get your block from from FloydUpgrades yet? What the hell time is it over there vs. PST, your mail run yet? ;) Waitin' for a shipment from him as well, but holidays...regular US mail's already hammered...just got something (and I mean like a regular letter, not a parcel) postmarked Nov 30th yesterday....

[Coyote]

Figured so, but also figured couldn't hurt. ;)
Camping industry not big over there, huh? Europeans don't do that shit anymore? Really?
"Y'all don't do a buncha huntin' and feeshin', do ya" I guess...:D Or maybe it's just your local "Cheap-O-Mart"...if they're anything like Wal-mart (or any other huge ass US chain store), ask 'em if they can pull the inventory from another location, y'know? lol

They might have it in local stock, I just never pay attention to their stock... :ashamed:


Well, on a positive note, say GAR's right (it could happen) about the product name, now you can at least see if you can find it locally...or at least someplace that will ship it to ya cheap...

True dat. Although, I could ask a couple of local hot rod painters for an opinion on this.


Did you get your block from from FloydUpgrades yet? What the hell time is it over there vs. PST, your mail run yet? ;) Waitin' for a shipment from him as well, but holidays...regular US mail's already hammered...just got something (and I mean like a regular letter, not a parcel) postmarked Nov 30th yesterday....

As I'm typing, it's 4:53PM on December 12th, but I'm not sure what year it is... Damn daylight saving time... :biggrin:

Mail runs only on the weekdays, IIRC. I wager it'll arrive (along with the Floyd) some time next week...

[jhale667]

Mail runs only on the weekdays, IIRC. I wager it'll arrive (along with the Floyd) some time next week...

Yeah.
Well, :biggrin:an international trade-off for ya there; ours runs on Saturdays, but sometimes something (like that letter) that should usually get across the country in 3 or 4 days takes an extra....week? I'm flippin' through my mail and like "sent when?" :umm:

...Unless you get stuff like that and no Saturday delivery, I'd call it even...lol:biggrin:

So for the Floyd did you go....or.....? :D
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h217/jhale667/Guitar%20shite/RestoredFloyds.jpg

[Hardrock69]

Right on man. This oughta be interesting. Aside from pics, once you get done, post a sample of how it sounds.

[ZahZoo]

Another alternative to a wire mesh would be that plastic mesh stuff they use to wrap turkeys or hams in. It's more flexible and can be easily wrapped around the guitar's contours.

[GAR]

Mesh Lath | Anping ShunXing Metal Wire Mesh Co., Ltd. (http://www.china-wiremesh.cc/wiremesh-en/mesh-lath.html)

Quicksearch of K-lathe seems to show it's actually a trade name/product. Kinda like you ask for a Band-Aid someone might hand you a Curad bandage.

Anyways check a local hardware store for this shit if you're having an artist do it. It's used for plaster, mortar in prep for pasting tile on the walls or counters..

http://www.china-wiremesh.cc/index-image/mesh_lath.jpg

When I watched the girl at the factory do this, the edges were folded over all four corners of the body beforehand. It's expanded metal and it'll cut your hand and definately scratch a painted body.

You'd have to form the wire around the edges with a towel over the body first, trimmed a few inches for overhang.

You sketch out your design beforehand on paper as a visual guide, but the gal did this freestyle from several pics on the wall she pinned up at the bench. I think there were old TimeLife hardback-book centerfold on the wall as a guide.. or was it from National Geographic, or Life Magazine? Can't remember.

It had a good rattlesnake pattern going. Or was it an anaconda.. they look similar, I think the major differences are color.

Whatever, you got the K-Lathe edges bent.. doing the airbrush filling-ins of the diamond patterns on the BACKSIDE first. With the bent edges straight up, avoiding overspray off the sides.

The factory used regular lacquers and you didn't need much, just a thimble amount of color into two-thumbs of thinner cup, sloshed around and the girl was ready to go screwing it into the airbrush.. did her gold-bronze first, then the silver then the black last so it was a process but it went quick.

Flipped the body over (mounted in a jig, screwed onto the neck pocket) and she could follow the pattern up from below by holding the mesh on the top and continuing around up the sides, then the top last.

Airbrushing the sides, you could angle the color shots and it would still hit the rounded edges even if the diamond mesh went straight. So it doesnt' have to be totally molded to the body.

And don't nobody go googling how-tos on this and saying "oh youre a liar, you do the black last" or "the black first" who gives a shit. Generally, this is my recollection how they did this 25 years ago and it is easy to do if you own an airbrush.

Just experiment with cardboard cutouts first to get the hang of the order of colors if you're doing this yourself Coyote.

[GAR]

Another alternative to a wire mesh would be that plastic mesh stuff they use to wrap turkeys or hams in. It's more flexible and can be easily wrapped around the guitar's contours.

It's not thick enough to stop the blast of the airbrush, nor is it stiff enough that it wouldn't move when sprayed over.

With K-lathe, it's stiff enough you could have the mesh an inch from the body and the pattern will still transfer, even over rounded edges 90 degrees opposite. It's a cool technique.

[jhale667]

I dig watching people work with airbrushes, but haven't used one myself. Have friend (real, not in the Internet sense of the word)who is a reeeally good airbrush artist...does some really cool shit:

http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/101/l_ef642c97063d4af5993bfd6e3833b4e7.jpg

(even with a paintbrush, see below) but never saw him do snakeskin. So, Gar, when you watched was it background colors first (like, say a Kamikaze)then the mesh with black and white?

I wanna see that! OK, Coyote...now you gotta call a buddy, set up a webcam, whatever...lol :)
Talk about Must.See.Video ! :cool:

http://b3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/01372/31/78/1372488713_l.jpg

Oh, this pic counts as my Christmas card to everyone, too...Happy Freakin' Holidays... :hee:

[GAR]

So, Gar, when you watched was it background colors first (like, say a Kamikaze)then the mesh with black and white?

The Kamizaze Bomber guy was obviously white background, they'd lay tape then trace and cut out the tape-shaped areas you'd see black, red, etc.

They'd do 3 or 4 at a time, I don't recall which stage of the process they were in but they had out silver, gold, brown and black colors to mix.

Lacquer is thick out of the can, it's thinned or "reduced" 175% meaning, only a quarter of the mix is actual color.

Oh and then throw in the clear base they'd add, forget it. I doubt an original redo could be done even by the same person, one week apart.

Every guitar finish was unique that way. Unlike what you got today with ESP and Dean using inkjetted paper plotter-printed finishes. All they gotta do is lay clear over glued-down paper!

That shit ain't art. The Charvels were art.

[jhale667]

Every guitar finish was unique that way. Unlike what you got today with ESP and Dean using inkjetted paper plotter-printed finishes. All they gotta do is lay clear over glued-down paper!

That shit ain't art. The Charvels were art.

The limited run or one-of-a kind "art" part of the new Charvels at least is farmed out to people like Mike Learn. That dude still does art! People like him and Jeff from RCA guitars...

But Coyote's will be one-of-a kind because he's doing it...:baaa:

[GAR]

WRONG more like "one of a similar" or "in the style of.." type thing.

You got it wrong.

Maybe he could do a more colorful anaconda like a gold, yellow, green something like that? Then it would constitute "of one kind."

And I'm not talking about Charvel Art Series.. to me, Charvels haven't been made since 1989, unless GMW was doing em.

GMW does Charvel art finishes better than anyone.

[jhale667]

GMW does Charvel art finishes better than anyone.

I'd agree with you on that, except not anymore, since they stopped doing replicas a few years ago...and I'm not talking about the standard Charvel "Art" series either, talking Custom Shop jobs...
Present-day Charvel also still uses Dan Lawrence, who painted original Charvels, did he not?


You got it wrong.

[GAR]

Yeah he did, also did BC Rich. But most of the custom, hairband endorsement intricate stuff.

"How about a GI Joe guitar theme.." How about a this, a that.. you could add all these details, he'd say okay and do it. He had a fat photo archive of his completed things but not a very fat wallet.

I think now about all the hairband custom finishes that have maybe 100 hours into some of 'em, and how the guys trashed 'em like they could just pick up the phone and have another ready in 6weeks.. just so much incredible waste back in the day and I think Dan suffered alot from that.

Not that there goes another custom job, ruined, but more like "I'm never gonna do another ______ again (WW2, Militaria, cartoon chars., movie posters etc.)

[Coyote]

So for the Floyd did you go....or.....? :D
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h217/jhale667/Guitar%20shite/RestoredFloyds.jpg

Chrome. Gotta have something to blind the audiences with, right? :D

[Coyote]

And, for the record, I haven't entertained the idea of painting the damn thing myself...
(Not yet, anyway.)

And, yes, the paint job will be "in the style of".

If I wanted an exact duplicate of, say, DeMartini's Anaconda, I'd have figured out where to get the actual snakeskin. "Politically Correct", my ass!

[Coyote]

And, of course, YouTube delivers...

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/fvuj46r_aec&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/fvuj46r_aec&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[GAR]

This guy is more meticulous about it than is necessary.

He's using a tiny Paasche gun, but then again his example work area is one-tenth the size of a guitar.

You could use a small touch-up gun for the same shading effects, I don't know that you want so much of the diamondback pattern defined because to me and in my experience the more crisp the details are on something like this the less real it actually looks.

Animals in the wild, you never see them out flat in full detail. That's why I suggest going around corners and not having the mesh to directly flat on the surface when shading is so critical as this guy emphasizes in clip 1, 4:30.

The edges aren't completely important to invoke the image of a real animal.

[jhale667]

Cool video series find, Coyote. Wanna post the rest of the 4-part series? I'm bookmarking them to watch the rest, anyway! :baaa:
I think it's fascinating to watch artists do crap like this, and actually see how their brains work in action. Interesting he's using the hardware store mesh too. Scale size would end up different, looks like. Might turn out cooler with the K Lathe, looks like they'd be bigger when done? Bigger scales visually suggesting it came off a bigger, meaner snake? :D Ah, possibilities...:biggrin:

Those Paasche guns are the ones I used to watch my friend work with a lot. And the opening shot made me miss my old Chevy Nova SS...(paintjob was nowhere near that cool, though)..:lmao:

Can't wait to see progress photos of the build...:killer:


:guitar:

[GAR]

At the end of the embedded clip, there are icons in the screen that a mouse-over will reveal their titles such as "part 2 part 3 etc"

Also if you doubleclick the Youtube video area, in Firefox it will open another window with Youtube and all the hidden page info such as the Other Videos under the guys' channel list.

Also, with K-lathe one thing you can do is stretch it out to make the diamond shape wider or thinner, or vary or even twist a little just like a snakes' body.

You can hold down on a table in the middle and pull on the sides, leaving the middle with skinny diamonds, but fatter going out to the sides just like real snake hide.

So there's about the last trick I recall you can do, the stretch-thing of the K-lathe.

And about the Paasche guns, this guy is really into detail but in doing snake stuff he's got an idea of how to do it, but obviously he wasn't there in the day to see how the guitars were really done: the colors were done very quickly with a wide tip for detail and a touchup gun for broad long strokes, so like I mention -- holding down of the material isn't really critical if you're shading just a few passes.

Actually I kinda laughed at how focused the guy was on forming his material down with super thick tape and keeping that material totally flat, because if he had been using wider tips with higher than the 40psi he says he's using, he could hold a higher distance above the work and be more effective about it.

[Diamondjimi]

And, of course, YouTube delivers...

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/fvuj46r_aec&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/fvuj46r_aec&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Cool vid. Get this thing goin and get some photos up!

[Coyote]

As soon as the rest of the parts arrive!

Shoulda taken UPS instead...

[GAR]

Did you order the body with a clear sealer coating or some solid color as a base?

[Coyote]

Did you order the body with a clear sealer coating or some solid color as a base?

There wasn't an option for either one... Unbelievable, but true.

I assume it's clear-sealed.

In other news, the Floyd's in the Funland customs office, waiting for a copy of the purchase confirmation...

I knew I should've had it UPS'd... :pullinghair:

[jhale667]

There wasn't an option for either one... Unbelievable, but true.

I assume it's clear-sealed.

In other news, the Floyd's in the Funland customs office, waiting for a copy of the purchase confirmation...

I knew I should've had it UPS'd... :pullinghair:

Think you have to click a separate link for their paint shop, and it's an upcharge for sealer or primer (same with Warmoth)...the body I ordered from Musikraft showed up bare wood, but that was the plan anyway in that case...

[jhale667]

I still think this is the coolest real snakeskin guitar ever made. I've read interviews where Warren said this was a primered body they covered, and it sounded like muffled ass, so they did the python one over bare wood, and it sounded great.

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h217/jhale667/Guitar%20shite/WarrenLIDAnaconda.jpg


Good news is, Coyote - if the body shows up bare(and likely will) clear sanding sealer's cheap from StewMac.com....

ColorTone Aerosol Guitar Lacquer at Stewart-MacDonald (http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Finishing_supplies/Colors,_tints,_and_stains/ColorTone_Aerosol_Guitar_Lacquers/ColorTone_Aerosol_Guitar_Lacquer.html)

http://www.stewmac.com/catalog/images_1lg/3881_1lg.jpg

[Coyote]

Nice...

Too bad about the shipping restrictions...

[jhale667]

Oh, crap - missed that. There's got to be some Euro equivalent, right? :umm:

[Coyote]

I'm sure there is. I'll ask a carpenter friend of mine...
The dude made a fairly decent Les Paul copy as his final exam work...

[GAR]

Lacquer. Anything lacquer. You don't need a primer.

Lacquer sealer, sanding sealer, nitrocellulose lacquer, acrylic lacquer, all good choices.

But do not put a solid color acrylic lacquer over a nitrocellulose base sealer or lacquer, it tends to chip.

But putting an acrylic-sealer base or acrylic lacquer clear base, and then doing colors in nitrocellulose lacquer is fine because basecoats are thicker than color coatings usually - and acrylic chips less than nitro.

[Coyote]

Musikraft sent an email. The parts have been shipped... :baaa:
(And probably lost in the mail... :biggrin: )

Only thing missing now, is the block...

[jackassrock]

I take it you're going with aluminum ?

[VanHalenFan5150]

I'm curious to see how the guitar turns out; best of luck to you, my friend!

[jhale667]

So did Musikraft send you tracking info, btw? At least that way you'd know when it hits Customs..
Speaking of which, did the Floyd clear yet? :D

[Coyote]

So did Musikraft send you tracking info, btw? At least that way you'd know when it hits Customs..
Speaking of which, did the Floyd clear yet? :D

Yes, and according to USPS, it's been "Processed through Sort Facility, December 19, 2009, 12:21 am".

Customs around here sends an email...
And, yeah, the Floyd's cleared. Now it's up to the FunlandPS.



I'm itching to start slapping the pieces together, needless to say...

Which reminds me, I pieced the Duncan Triple Shot and the Custom together. No soldering yet, just seeing how it fits.
A bit tight... In fact the physical dimensions of the Triple Shot are slightly smaller than a standard Trembucker ring.

[jhale667]

Wondered about that...none of the Duncan info states whether they're for standard SH-series Humbuckers, or the TBs...you'd think they'd have made it universal...but you still managed to get it in there, albeit snugly?

[Coyote]

"Snugly" being the keyword... Gotta be careful with the adjustments, or I'll tear off the tape around the coils...
The package said it's supposed to be a TB. Might be a Tuesday edition... :biggrin:


For kicks, I tried that extra Dimarzio Air Zone I had laying around. Fits nicely, albeit it's not F-spaced...

[Coyote]

Wondered about that...none of the Duncan info states whether they're for standard SH-series Humbuckers, or the TBs...

Look under "dimensions"... (http://www.seymourduncan.com/products/electric/humbucker/triple-shot/triple_shot_swi/)

[jhale667]

Look under "dimensions"... (http://www.seymourduncan.com/products/electric/humbucker/triple-shot/triple_shot_swi/)

LOL...Alright, that page got updated since last I saw it...:lmao:


The Duncan forum folks rave about them like they're the coolest thing since sliced bread though...and it kinda sounds like they are...;)

[Coyote]

Found the Floyd in the mailbox today...

I'm tempted to install the Graph Tech saddles already, but I'd rather wait for the block to arrive. (Not to mention the neck/body)

[jhale667]

Found the Floyd in the mailbox today...

I'm tempted to install the Graph Tech saddles already, but I'd rather wait for the block to arrive. (Not to mention the neck/body)

Cool! :D

Yeah, if I were you I'd wait for the block - that way you only have to disassemble the Floyd once. Y'know, unless you're just into that sort of thing...;)

[Coyote]

Last time I checked, I don't have OCD... :biggrin:

[Coyote]

Although, after Christmas, I gotta start scouring the hardware stores for the correct screws.
Just 'cause I'd rather not drill through the neck...

[jhale667]

Just order them from Stew-Mac...;)

[Coyote]

What? and wait another 3-4 weeks? :biggrin:

[jhale667]

What? and wait another 3-4 weeks? :biggrin:

Yeah, well there's that ;) ...isn't there some Euro-guitar shop supply company equivalent?

[Coyote]

Local stores... And Thomann...

But I'd rather not use these (http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Nuts,_saddles/Floyd_Rose_nuts_and_parts/Neck_Mounting_Screws_for_Floyd_Rose_Locking_Nut.ht ml)

Shit, what's the term for this? Countersink? Kitchensink?

[jhale667]

Countersunk, yes. Your nut could also be top-mounted, the screws for that option are similar to (but sturdier than, one imagines) eyeglass screws...kinda tiny...contact Floyd Rose directly too, something that small, they'd probably just slap a couple of those in the mail to you...they're cool like that. :D

Floyd Rose home (http://www.floydrose.com/main.html)

[Coyote]

Oh darn. Here I was, idly planning to go pick up some wood screws... :biggrin:

[jhale667]

Hey, if you can find a set that fits the mounting holes in the top of the nut and still allows you to lock it down, why not?

[Coyote]

It's all about finding the right thread...

But that's reserved for Monday, given how the stores are closed 'til then...

[Coyote]

And for those of you wondering why I insist on not getting every part from "the usual suspects"...

It's good for the guitars' mojo to Dennis-The-Menace some of the smaller parts. IMO, at least.

[jhale667]

And for those of you wondering why I insist on not getting every part from "the usual suspects"...

It's good for the guitars' mojo to Dennis-The-Menace some of the smaller parts. IMO, at least.

Definitely ups the "unique" factor, that's for sure... :baaa:

[Coyote]

Quite frankly, I don't trust guitars that have nothing ratty in its details... :D

[Reverberator]

Coyotes build will be fucking great in my opinion...

I am doing one too...only it's a going to be a relic piece of shit ... I've got the body , thread or post coming soon.

[GAR]

I've been doing some research, and it comes to mind there were a couple snakes: the first one was a sloppy one, primered over black with fishnet stockings - then splotches of black, sometimes the net wiggled from sloppy handling during spray so you got more variance during the "shading" with the black.

Another thing, the very first one was the one with the little spots I'm talking about.. the black was thinned down with too much clear or thinner, so it bled with the black. It wasn't perfect, but from a dozen feet or more who cares.

The second one was much better, that was obviously done with K-lathe.

The third one I've seen looks perfect. This must be the one mentioned done with real snake glued onto bare wood body, that would make sense.

I never paid much attention to Warren DeMartini's guitars out in the real world. But with the Youtube the details come up very clear because of the pause button!

[GAR]

FWIW I think the best snakejob I've seen done on guitar was a Dan Screaming Leaming Lawrence PURPLE one, with silver and black effects, on a BC Rich Warlock neckthru, reverse 6/side headstock w/trem and upside down cross inlays, 1989 at GC Santa Ana, being sold as a trade-in.

Wow. Someone cut loose a whopper. They don't make decent BCRich neckthrus' anymore in the US, and that was a rare piece, but the best combo metal appointments in a snakefinish guitar I'd ever seen.

Some collector has that one! Super rare.

[jhale667]

Interesting your research didn't tell you that the first two of Warren's were real snakeskin...the first one being Anaconda over primer, beautiful but meh sonically...(the pic I posted earlier)

Then there was the (again, real) Python over bare wood. Which he dug.
http://www.minijammers.plamoney.com/images/Warre%20dimartini%20photo.jpg

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h217/jhale667/Guitar%20shite/WarrenGP87.jpg

You can even see the skin is raised and peeling from tour-wear in that pic...

Here's one of the later Performance painted models...scale-size looks right for the k-lathe pic you posted...

http://www.j-guitar.com/sp/sea/data/1081/r/3751_1.jpg


But more importantly, has anyone seen the Black Frenchie? Variation on the familiar theme, but pretty bad ass!

http://www.crushermagazine.com/images/features6_08/ratt/Ratt%20164_WarrenDeMartini_Ratt_Astoria_LondonUK_6 _08_byAlissaOrdabai.jpg

[GAR]

The Frenchy one looks RETARDED.

Who did the guy think he was kidding?

That Performance guys' an idiot: look at how close to the bridge he sticks the humbucker.. DUHH I bet it sounds like a friggen BANJO

[GAR]

oh 4/87 GP? Yup, as I said #3 - two came prior to that.

[jhale667]

In other news, your block should show up soon, Coyote...my package from FloydUpgrades arrived today, and IIRC yours was ordered/shipped before mine...:cool:

[GAR]

AH here it is..

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/RIyPrMdRabM&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/RIyPrMdRabM&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

You can pause it, and see where the faked diamondback pattern is actually blotches! The touchup gun just kinda "blasted" little puffs - and the "scales" are totally different from the stretched nylons being so thin.

I dunno. It's kinda cool, this was done in spring of 84 if I recall -

[jhale667]

Dude, that is the original Anaconda one, and the video I posted the screen shot from...:rolleyes: Anaconda skin over primer.

Here's the 2nd one, Python over bare wood.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/WCNkAQnygW4&hl=en_US&fs=1&color1=0x006699&color2=0x54abd6"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/WCNkAQnygW4&hl=en_US&fs=1&color1=0x006699&color2=0x54abd6" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[Coyote]

Holy. Shit. (http://www.bcrich.com/handcrafted/gHGSSSG.php)

[Coyote]

Here's the 2nd one, Python over bare wood.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/WCNkAQnygW4&hl=en_US&fs=1&color1=0x006699&color2=0x54abd6"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/WCNkAQnygW4&hl=en_US&fs=1&color1=0x006699&color2=0x54abd6" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


And that kinda (re)affirms the look I want on this...

[kwame k]

Holy. Shit. (http://www.bcrich.com/handcrafted/gHGSSSG.php)

Sweet guitar but.....5 grand, phew!

[jhale667]

Holy. Shit. (http://www.bcrich.com/handcrafted/gHGSSSG.php)

WOW. Just checked out the enlarged photo at the site - that's gotta be one of the best painted snakeskin finishes I've ever seen. :baaa:

Take THAT pic to whoever you get to paint it...(linking it, too ginormous to post here)...and make him watch the "Body Talk" video. A LOT. :D

http://www.bcrich.com/handcrafted/subpages/guitars/HGSSSG/imageLrg.jpg

[Coyote]

WOW. Just checked out the enlarged photo at the site - that's gotta be one of the best painted snakeskin finishes I've ever seen. :baaa:

Take THAT pic to whoever you get to paint it...(linking it, too ginormous to post here)...and make him watch the "Body Talk" video. A LOT. :D

http://www.bcrich.com/handcrafted/subpages/guitars/HGSSSG/imageLrg.jpg

Or, I could just speak clearly and say: "Give it a brown tint". :D

[GAR]

Holy. Shit. (http://www.bcrich.com/handcrafted/gHGSSSG.php)

BC Rich is so lost, its' sad really.

The current owners H.H.I. have NO fucking idea what a real BC was about, does, did do back in the day or who played them for what reason.

2006 I informed the marketing guy who really designed a couple of those designs, and did he license the shapes yet? Now you don't see them sold anymore.

As far as detail goes, this is definately an example of spraying over K-lathe because you can see how the little diamond windows open up near the mid-curves where they must have tried to bend the mesh around the body.

Coyote if you find Klathe, or "expanded metal mesh for plasterwork or tile layups" you can put a towel around the body before you bend the mesh over the edges with the palms of your hands without scratching the body.

that is, if you prefer this width example over the first fishnet stocking example. Klathe I think has the more dramatic scale-effect, thats what I would want.

[Coyote]

Mail don't run on the holidays...

Gonna get back to this on Monday...

[Coyote]

Just checked the tracking on the Musikraft package.

It's been in Funland customs for the past three days... Right on. :baaa:

[jhale667]

:jumping0041:

[Coyote]

Picked up the screws today...

Easy to find, just pick out the smallest looking (countersunk) wood screws and size up the thread.

Fits perfectly. Too bad the parts aren't here yet... :pullinghair:

[jhale667]

Very nice - so when does the stuff currently in Customs clear? :D

[Coyote]

Hard to say, some time this week.

Somehow I doubt I'll get it painted by next Wednesday...

[Coyote]

Got a letter from customs again...
As I type, they're sending "them woodworks" forward.

But what's keeping the block? :umm:

[jhale667]

Dunno...Check with Adam, he'll let ya know when he shipped it...another friend of mine who ordered shortly after you just got his, but he's local.

[Coyote]

I think I figured it out...

Priority and Express mail has an estimated delivery time of 5-10 days.

First-Class Mail International Packages have an EDT of "varies"...

Serves me right for being a cheapskate. :biggrin:

[Coyote]

I wonder if anyone's wrapped tolex around a guitar... :umm:

[chefcraig]

I wonder if anyone's wrapped tolex around a guitar... :umm:

When I was in high school, a friend of mine wrapped his father's Torino station wagon around my neighbor's tree across the street. It wasn't exactly what you'd call a great look. :duh:

The thing about the tolex is it just may get in the way of the guitar's natural resonance, in unpredictable ways. As I recall, when the guys in ZZ Top had custom guitars made with what was essentially a bit of long shag carpeting applied to them, they found the need to beef up the pick ups arose in order to get a decent sound out of them. In other words, you might find yourself reverse engineering things, all for sacrifice of a look that is neither practical or most importantly, functional. I'm not saying it can or can not be done, but you may be opening up yourself to a series of (at this point) unforeseen issues. ;)

[Coyote]

Just looking for a shortcut. :biggrin:

[GAR]

I wonder if anyone's wrapped tolex around a guitar... :umm:

It's not pretty.

[Coyote]

Now that I'm thinking clearly again...

http://store02.prostores.com/jam4jsonlinestore/catalog/b%20python%20sq400.jpg

No, it ain't... But it's a definite idea for a pattern...

[Coyote]

Gee, I wish I had an extra 5K$ on me...

PRODUCTS -GUITARS- | Performance Guitar - Custom Made Guitar Shop in Hollywood Los Angeles, CA (http://www.performanceguitar.com/products01.html)

[GAR]

His work is really not that good, trust me.

[jhale667]

Gee, I wish I had an extra 5K$ on me...

PRODUCTS -GUITARS- | Performance Guitar - Custom Made Guitar Shop in Hollywood Los Angeles, CA (http://www.performanceguitar.com/products01.html)

I like the finish on the first single-hum model better than the S/H below it, but that's just me...;)

:guitar:

[Coyote]

Either one would be fine with me... :biggrin:

[jhale667]

Did a quickie search on Mike Learn's site and found some interesting stuff...

Airbrush Artists Resources by Mike Learn (http://www.learnairbrush.com/forums/showpost.php?p=42343&postcount=11)

http://www.learnairbrush.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=6692&d=1181183182

Latest Bike...Kandies & Scales (http://www.airbrush.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=191899&mpage=1)

This shit was done with the mesh of a dollar-store laundry bag apparently...



http://www.airbrush.com/forums/upfiles/1289/AAA469BA6CA343C19AA6590599C267B4.jpg

http://www.learnairbrush.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=6525&d=1180109445

[jhale667]

Better pics in the Performance Gallery too...dammit Coyote, now I want a snakeskin Strat (again)...:lmao:

http://www.performanceguitar.com/gallery/rwx_gallery/PG_WEB_G36.jpg
http://www.performanceguitar.com/gallery/rwx_gallery/PG_WEB_G33.jpg
http://www.performanceguitar.com/gallery/rwx_gallery/PG_WEB_G03.jpg

[Coyote]

http://www.performanceguitar.com/gallery/rwx_gallery/PG_WEB_G36.jpg

Damn, that's how it's gonna look. (somewhat)

And: you're welcome, dude... :D

[Reverberator]

I can't wait to see the finished article, hurry up you fucker:biggrin:

[GAR]

That's real snake. How hard is it to glue natural hide onto bare wood?

Only white school glue. Over here I'd say use Elmer's, over there I dunno what you elfish people have for a white glue but that's what I'd use, because it's easily removed with steam.

I see how that dumbass did the top, then the back, then covered his tracks by lastly running a thin strip all the way around the edges.

I would follow that example if you do your measurements. There's got to be someone online selling a yard or two of rattlesnake or python. Even a python print on ANY fabric, preferrably Pleather, from someplace they sell all kinds of fabric.

Over here, I'd suggest JoAnne Fabrics. We go there all the time, they sell all kinds of fabrics.

[jhale667]

OK, isn't fabric or coverings over primer what we're talking about avoiding here for tonal purposes?

[Coyote]

I think I found the right place for the paintjob... Gonna call the place on Monday.

ALASALMI.COM (http://www.alasalmi.com/)

[GAR]

OK, isn't fabric or coverings over primer what we're talking about avoiding here for tonal purposes?

That's best asked from Warren DeMartini I would guess.. I would think it's the easiest way to go about it.

He could also use just regular contact cement, but should he want to refinish it, contact cement has a funny way of pulling the grain out by splinters when you yank the snakehide off without a heat gun..

I doubt he'd want to do that, natural hides are beautiful.

Plus, it was common back in the 40s thru the 60's to have tooled leather parts stuck on your guitar such as bridge-rings, pickguards, rosettes and armrests.

Natural snake hide would be kickass. Dated, but still kickass because its' uncommon.

[Coyote]

Status report: The Musikraft package has arrived!
(And the brass block's still MIA...)

I'll get back to y'all on this, I got shit to do here.




























































And yes, I'm taking pictures. :D

[Coyote]

Ran into a snag...

No hole for the jack... Now, how'd Charvel do this? :umm:

[jhale667]

Ran into a snag...

No hole for the jack... Now, how'd Charvel do this? :umm:

You didn't specify the "football" jack rout? Or did they just space it? :umm:

[Coyote]

Literally, no hole drilled for the jack.

Don't know what (or who) happened at the Musikraft plant...

But it opens up whole new avenues here... A Strat jack á la some Lynch ESPs? (http://www.taekwondoplus.org/music/guitar10.jpg)

[jhale667]

OK, that sucks, and will be a pain to ship back to fix...but that's something a local luthier could do for you cheap...small consolation, I know.

I'd still go for the side football jack, make it "authentic", y'know?

[Coyote]

OK, that sucks, and will be a pain to ship back to fix...but that's something a local luthier could do for you cheap...small consolation, I know.

I'd still go for the side football jack, make it "authentic", y'know?

Actually, I have a "les paul" jack aching to go. (as per the original "pre-pro" Charvels)

And I wouldn't mind doing this myself.

[jackassrock]

OK, that sucks, and will be a pain to ship back to fix...but that's something a local luthier could do for you cheap...small consolation, I know.

I'd still go for the side football jack, make it "authentic", y'know?

Authentic, and easy. Easier still, just drill a hole in the top and drop a jack straight into the control cavity.

[Coyote]

Nah, that's too easy... :biggrin:

[jhale667]

Nah, that's too easy... :biggrin:


Yeah, please don't. :biggrin: Haven't even seen the thing but betting it'd be blasphemy to deface that....face...with anything other than a traditional Strat jack (a la Jake E. Lee's Charvels), IMO.

Side-mount LP jack would be pre-pro and retro, though...;)

[GAR]

Ran into a snag...

No hole for the jack... Now, how'd Charvel do this? :umm:

At first, they swung the drill press table 90* degrees and clamped a body blank cutoff to the table, as a makeshift jig using a 7/8" spade woodbit then went for it by hand..

Then later when Grover got some money he bought a Pacco 300 single-spindle, horizontal boring machine exactly like this one. These originally sold for $1100 bucks, this one's going for $400 in Flagstaff..

Woodworking Horizontal Boring Machine (http://flagstaff.craigslist.org/tls/1505786395.html)

You didn't have to fight to twist the table and line up a perfect 90, you just flopped the body on the table and stepped on the footpedal!

However all you need is a 7/8" spade woodworking drill bit, and go 1-3/4" deep.

http://images.orgill.com/200x200/6959001.jpg

I don't know how if you'll reach the cavity, you can angle and keep going till you breech the inside if you want. But I'd just go deep enough to hold the jack, then drill the wire hole 1/4" the rest of the way.

[Coyote]

I ran into a slight problem upon installing the block.

Apparently, I neglected the fact that this L-block wasn't originally designed for southpaw Floyds... :pullinghair:

[jhale667]

Hmmm....Email Adam, see if he even offers a Left-handed version you can exchange...sucks you can't just flip it.

[jhale667]

OK, just spoke to him, he does make 'em and said contact him, send the righty back and he'll exchange it for a left-handed version for ya, no probs. :baaa:

[Coyote]

Weird... I got an email a few hours back saying he doesn't have lefty L blocks.
I'll just have to "settle" for a regular big block... :biggrin:

I'll drop it in the mail tomorrow.

[jhale667]

Weird... I got an email a few hours back saying he doesn't have lefty L blocks.
I'll just have to "settle" for a regular big block... :biggrin:

I'll drop it in the mail tomorrow.

Meh, even if it's not an "L" one it'll still kick ass over the standard one..:killer:

[Coyote]

Indeed. :smoke:

And I got the input jack hole done, too.

[Coyote]

Alright, the dude who's painting the axe just swung by my place. It's in his hands now.

It's gonna take some time, given his dayjob, but I have faith in his work.

BTW, this was his last project
http://files.americar.de/images/2008/10/339e36551e459ab0bd35015ab27c031f.jpg

I'd say he knows how to hold a spray gun. :smoke:

[jhale667]

I'd say he knows how to hold a spray gun. :smoke:


Wow, I'd say you're right! :baaa:



But what, no unfinished neck and body photos? ;)

[Coyote]

Gimme a minute, I just got off the train... :biggrin:

[jhale667]

Gimme a minute, I just got off the train... :biggrin:

:baaa:

[Coyote]

Out of the box. The fellas were kind enough to include a cavity plate, and a neck adjustment tool (not shown)

http://www.rotharmy.com/gallery/files/5/8/01_out_of_box_thumb.jpg (http://www.rotharmy.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=3554&c=3)

[Coyote]

Bit of a mess...

http://www.rotharmy.com/gallery/files/5/8/05_a_mess_thumb.jpg (http://www.rotharmy.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=3555&c=3)

[Coyote]

Floyd, pre mods

http://www.rotharmy.com/gallery/files/5/8/06_floyd_pre_thumb.jpg (http://www.rotharmy.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=3556&c=3)

In the bag are the noiseless springs and stainless steel screws for the saddle locks'n'blocks, block mount & the nut clamp.

Also in the shot, Graph Tech saddles and a Brass "L" Big Block which had to be sent back.
Damn thing wasn't compatible with southpaws...

[Coyote]

What's the strip for? Shimming?

http://www.rotharmy.com/gallery/files/5/8/07_sans_saddles_thumb.jpg (http://www.rotharmy.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=3557&c=3)

[Coyote]

Just driving a point home...

http://www.rotharmy.com/gallery/files/5/8/08_size_up_thumb.jpg (http://www.rotharmy.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=3558&c=3)

[Coyote]

Swapped the saddles and assorted screws...

http://www.rotharmy.com/gallery/files/5/8/10_floyd_after_thumb.jpg (http://www.rotharmy.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=3559&c=3)

Ballparked the volume and toggle hole positions...

[Coyote]

Something's missing...

http://www.rotharmy.com/gallery/files/5/8/09_mock_up_thumb.jpg (http://www.rotharmy.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=3560&c=3)

[Coyote]

After a gallon of sweat, there it is. Not exact, but it's good enough for me.

http://www.rotharmy.com/gallery/files/5/8/11_jack_hole_thumb.jpg (http://www.rotharmy.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=3561&c=3)

[Coyote]

Hole for the wires...

http://www.rotharmy.com/gallery/files/5/8/12_jack_wire_hole_thumb.jpg (http://www.rotharmy.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=3562&c=3)

[Coyote]

And here's what took off with the painter...

http://www.rotharmy.com/gallery/files/5/8/13_another_mock_thumb.jpg (http://www.rotharmy.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=3563&c=3)

[Coyote]

More to follow later...

[jhale667]

What's the strip for? Shimming?

http://www.rotharmy.com/gallery/files/5/8/07_sans_saddles_thumb.jpg (http://www.rotharmy.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=3557&c=3)

Not sure if it's a shim or more of a pressure-pad type deal, but there's been one in every Floyd I've ever disassembled, so I leave 'em in. :hee:

[Coyote]

Duly noted.

Got that stashed in the "parts bin"... :biggrin:

[Coyote]

Quick search engine run came up with this...

See Step 5... (http://www.ehow.com/how_4616429_action-guitar-floyd-rose-tremolo.html)

[jhale667]

I should have actually clicked on your thumbnail - just took a quick glance and thought you were referring to the one on the underside, not the saddles, my bad. But even if you don't rearrange the saddles from the standard height, I'd leave it in there.

Also, you can get individual saddle shims, too...I see sets going on Ebay for like $10...or if you're crafty you can cut your own out of a Coke can, even...;)

[Coyote]

We'll see what happens... I ain't in no hurry... :biggrin:

[GAR]

I'd say he knows how to hold a spray gun. :smoke:

Uh, YEAH I think it's in the right hands, if that' his work.

Any guy that can do stencilled candy metallics can definately figure out the shading required to do the scales-thing on that body.

XLNT

[jhale667]

Betting Coyote's paintjob is going to turn out killer. Someone posted a link to this on another guitar board, thought some more reference photos would be a cool contribution...:D

Warren DeMartini fansite :: View topic - Charvel Custom Python Skin San Dimas (http://www.warrendemartini.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=178)

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h22/ZR4400/1.jpg

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h22/ZR4400/2.jpg

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h22/ZR4400/11.jpg

[Coyote]

Looks killer... :smoke:

In completely unrelated news: I'm in a band again...
Apparently, my guitar teacher passed my number on to a guy who was looking for an "insanely creative" guitarist.
Great guys, and judgeing by their beer consumption yesterday (and my hangover today), they approve of my playing... :biggrin:

First gig coming up in three weeks...

Only downside to this is having to practice like a mo'fo, just to get to grips with the previous guy's Blackmore/Yngwie-esque stuff...

[jhale667]

In sort-of related news...

Apparently Charvel is adding a Snakeskin-finish Dinky to the Warren Demartini signature series debuting at NAMM 2010...no pics yet, but here's a review:

NAMM 2010: Charvel announces new guitars
Warren DeMartini snakeskin, limited San Dimas and '7th batch' guitars

NAMM 2010: Charvel announces new guitars | MusicRadar.com (http://www.musicradar.com/news/guitars/namm-2010-charvel-announces-new-guitars-231513)

PRESS RELEASE: Charvel is proud to unveil a new stable of high-performance guitars for 2010, consisting of a reptilian artist signature model, a scorching pair of San Dimas Style 1 guitars and the next round of USA Production Model custom colors.

Charvel adds to its distinctive stable of Ratt guitarist Warren DeMartini's signature models with the Charvel Custom Shop Warren DeMartini Signature Snakeskin Graphic guitar.

The guitar's Dinky-style body is wrapped tightly in the coils of a custom snakeskin graphic treatment, with features including a one-piece quartersawn maple neck with compound-radius 22-fret fingerboard, Floyd Rosetremolo, Seymour DuncanWarren DeMartini RTM humbucking bridge pickup and Seymour DuncanQuarter Poundsingle-coil neck pickup.

The guitar's appearance coincides with the early 2010 release of Infestation, Ratt's seventh studio album and first since 1999.

Charvel also introduces a special limited run of two USA Production Model series San Dimas Style I guitars, one in custom yellow-flame finish and the other in a custom blue-flame finish.

Further, Charvel is pleased to announce the arrival of the USA Production Model 7thbatch custom colors. This time around, the trio consists of the SoCal Style 1 in a "Red Ale" finish, the San Dimas Style 1 in a Trans Gold Kandy finish, and the "wild card" guitar - a San Dimas Style 1 in Fiesta Red with a single humbucking pickup, chrome hardware and, for the first time, a rosewood fingerboard.

[Coyote]

I smell a copycat... :biggrin:

[jhale667]

I smell a copycat... :biggrin:

Yeah, maybe we have a lurker from Charvel/Jackson that saw your thread and spoke to Warren... ;)

[Coyote]

Well, he can tell 'em this:

I missed my Laney at the studio today (and yesterday). Had to settle for a regular JCM800 & a JCM2000(TSL)...

And I'm a little worn out after 9 straight hours of playing... Breaks not included.

[GAR]

What Laney do you have?

[Coyote]

GH-series 50W head...

[jhale667]

Well, he can tell 'em this:

I missed my Laney at the studio today (and yesterday). Had to settle for a regular JCM800 & a JCM2000(TSL)...

And I'm a little worn out after 9 straight hours of playing... Breaks not included.

9 hour rehearsal? My fingers hurt for you..how long is the set you're learning?

[jhale667]

Aw, yeah! :D

http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs191.snc3/19867_250840031386_49533311386_3333914_4613528_n.j pg

[Coyote]

9 hour rehearsal? My fingers hurt for you..how long is the set you're learning?

Allow me to clarify a bit... 9 hours of studiowork. New solos, re-doing some intros, doubletracking some riffs...

Rehearsal's only 2 hours max, and the set's around an hour and a half.

[jhale667]

Allow me to clarify a bit... 9 hours of studiowork. New solos, re-doing some intros, doubletracking some riffs...

OK, now I get it...lol.
That was me like, every time I opened Pro Tools for a minute there...got some stuff I like down and am about to hand it off for drummage...:killer:



Rehearsal's only 2 hours max, and the set's around an hour and a half.


Cool! :baaa:

[Reverberator]

I like the progress...

In completely unrelated news , my piles are playing up again!

[jhale667]

More pictures to take to your paint guy... ;)

http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/118/l_372a0dd265c5477e9f7857ca721cc5c0.jpg


OK, I am really starting to want one of these...damn you people..! :tongue0011:


:guitar:

[GAR]

I saw the Performance one today, apparently Warren DiMartini is signing the headstocks in Sharpie marker as a limited run because the guy still works on things for him.

The skins he uses are lightweight, surprisingly thin and warm-feeling. I liked it, thought I wouldn't.

[Coyote]

More pictures to take to your paint guy... ;)

http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/118/l_372a0dd265c5477e9f7857ca721cc5c0.jpg

I trust him well enough... :biggrin:



But I'd take those home with me. :hitch:

[jhale667]

I swear, the more I look at that - except for that fucking fretboard mangle - LURVES it. Looks like they're going for recreating the Python one, much like you said you want to. Pretty kick-ass.

:guitar:


(Oh, and I got turned on to a semi-local [for me, anyway] dude who makes Charvel replica bodies in Alder, Ash, and a couple of other wood selections for less than $150...gonna check 'em out...) ;)

[Coyote]

Which reminds me, I gotta call the guy...

Haven't heard word one from him for almost three weeks...

[GAR]

Which reminds me, I gotta call the guy...

Haven't heard word one from him for almost three weeks...

These things as one-off pieces take alot of time.. my best suggestion is:

1. Leave the guy alone, ample time is not enough - he's an artist you should be thankful to have been given the blessing of on your axe.

2. Offer to buy the guy lunch when you visit. Every time, or bring a beer. This always speeds things along.. cuz he'll think you're not a dick like everybody else who wants their shit yesterday but didn't pay for it.

3. Thank that guy a million times, and be thankful. Oh yeah, and when you talk to him on the phone? Say "thanks oh thanks" till it sounds silly. Make the guy laugh to think you're that happy to be getting something from him.

4. Follow up often.. my experience with these type artists is they like money in increments. Lacquer takes many applications: he'll spray a one clear coat a day for a week, then let it sit for a week while it's drying.

5. Once the art is done, like I say leave him alone about it but pay social visits "just to hang" for a sec. Artists like lots and lots of attention and they'll give it back into your piece when they think of you depending how you treat him.

[jhale667]

Who are you, and what have you done with GAR? :lmao:

[GAR]

Let me google that for you (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=why+is+Jay+such+an+egomaniac)

[Coyote]

Just got an email from Adam (FloydUpgrades.com).

The replacement 37mm brass block's on its way. :smoke:

[Coyote]

http://www.rotharmy.com/gallery/files/5/8/13_another_mock_thumb.jpg (http://www.rotharmy.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=3563&c=3)

Y'know, I started thinking... How deep is the trem recess supposed to be anyway?

[GAR]

2mm - 3mm

[Diamondjimi]

Let me google that for you (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=why+is+Jay+such+an+egomaniac)

No, let ME google that for you... (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Why+is+GAR+such+a+douchebag%3F)

[Coyote]

Well, I gave the painter-dude a call.

Hasn't even touched it yet... He's still got one hot rod to finish.

[jhale667]

Well, I gave the painter-dude a call.

Hasn't even touched it yet... He's still got one hot rod to finish.

He'll get to it...I'd agree with the "don't rush him" school of thought; he'll do a better job. :baaa:

[chefcraig]

He'll get to it...I'd agree with the "don't rush him" school of thought; he'll do a better job. :baaa:

Absolutely. Pressuring people just leads to resentment, and that attitude definitely translates to the quality of the work, consciously or not.

[Coyote]

A guy can't check up on his progress? :biggrin:

[chefcraig]

A guy can't check up on his progress? :biggrin:

Like I was saying...


"Ahhh, Peter...how's it going? About those TPS reports...did you get the memo?"

http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/1024/officespace.jpg (http://img64.imageshack.us/i/officespace.jpg/)

[jhale667]

A guy can't check up on his progress? :biggrin:

Sure, just don't nag him, or you'll potentially end up with faux-snakeshit as opposed to snakeskin...:biggrin:


:guitar:

[Coyote]

Nagging ain't my style... :smoke:

[GAR]

OK now he's saying he's got another rod to finish up, that could be weeks before he gets to it.

I was under the impression this guy was ready-go on it..

Did you provide just the body, or give it to him in a hard or softcase?

[Coyote]

Just the body.

[GAR]

Drop by this weekend with one of your most-beat gigbags for it, or a hardshell case if you can.

Having worked in bodyshops I can tell you the air always has abrasive dust going round and I wouldn't want that settling on it in any stage of the application myself.

[jhale667]

If he's a total pro, he probably has some sort of "clean room" dust-free drying/curing area (and some serious ventilation), but still not a bad idea just in case...

[jhale667]

I got curious and was poking around looking for snakeskin sources (apparently Kenny at Performance will do outside bodies and necks, not just their own) - but I gotta say looking at a few of them, in some cases the paint-jobs (particularly the new WD sig's) actually look cooler than the real thing...:umm:

OK, like for example: Warren's original Python one, as well as this one - AWESOME. No ifs ands or buts. :killer:

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h22/ZR4400/11.jpg

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h22/ZR4400/12.jpg

(Coincidentally, ^the example above^ is a Dinky body from the manufacturer I just stumbled onto via the JCF, and a new Charvel Production-model neck.)


But not really feelin' THIS one: :umm:

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e119/arahabika2/wd_forum/koji_top.jpg

Looks more like Alligator than Python kinda...I think the newer S/H Python one Warren himself has been playing lately even pales in comparison to the other one, or even the Anaconda one...

THIS one looks cooler than the last example, but still not touching the first one in this post....!

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h22/ZR4400/top1.jpg


Found a distributor, but based on the variety out there, almost would want to hand-select the piece, or at least choose one out of a set of "in-stock" photos, to see what I was getting instead of ordering and hoping...

http://rojeleather.com/rojeimages/Python/Python-White-full.jpg

[GAR]

You'd have to find a hide more than 13 inches wide to do it.

It could be applied with white school glue, or rubber contact cement it doesnt matter. Real skin means it's waterproof.

Snake is really light. I really liked it, as stupid an idea it may seem if you never felt it.

Unlike the coldness of the feel of paint, the skin was warm and didnt affect the tone. It's not better or worse than paint, it's just different.

But a likeable different. And a very cool feeling of different, too.

[Coyote]

Drop by this weekend with one of your most-beat gigbags for it, or a hardshell case if you can.

Having worked in bodyshops I can tell you the air always has abrasive dust going round and I wouldn't want that settling on it in any stage of the application myself.


If he's a total pro, he probably has some sort of "clean room" dust-free drying/curing area (and some serious ventilation), but still not a bad idea just in case...

Allow me to clarify a bit...

The guy who's ultimately gonna paint it, his day-time job is not hot rods.
But he's done enough paintwork to realize the necessity of ventilation/"clean rooms"...
Even if he doesn't do it at a full-blown "bodyshop". (Not many hobby-rodders have that luxury around Funland...)

And yes, I realize the last bit sounds like this is gonna take forever... :biggrin:

[jhale667]

Hey, better late than never, especially if you're pleased with the results... :D

[Coyote]

Hey, better late than never, especially if you're pleased with the results... :D

What am I? A fortune teller?

(Don't answer that... :D )

[jhale667]

OK, I won't. ;)


This thread has kinda motivated me to get off my ass and finish a couple of my guitar projects that have been on the back-burner, especially the recreation of my (2nd of the era) 20-something Charvel-mutt...
For your next one, you may want to consider KnE bodies...(started listening to the overwhelming consensus opinion amongst my friends - real and on teh internets :biggrin: - that the Musikraft body was too nice a piece to NOT stain or clear-coat, saving that body for another project) - they're damn near as accurate a Charvel repro, and cheaper than Musikraft (or Warmoth)...this showed up today...

http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs133.snc3/18076_301996712245_620012245_4524593_6502819_n.jpg

Neck-pocket fit is tighter than a virgin's...:rolleyes: uh..direct-mounting the pickups, Ti-block, Graph Tech saddles and Stainless Steel hardware already installed, once everything's all perfect off it goes to (well, now one of) my paint guy(s)...


:guitar:



Snake is really light. I really liked it, as stupid an idea it may seem if you never felt it.

Unlike the coldness of the feel of paint, the skin was warm and didnt affect the tone. It's not better or worse than paint, it's just different.

But a likeable different. And a very cool feeling of different, too.


Never tried a real snakeskin guitar, but have had enough snake and eel skin wallets to know I'd like the feel...just doesn't seem like it'd be all that durable over time...

[GAR]

Go to Performance and feel one Saturday. The snake is really thin, lightweight and it feels great.

You will be convinced to have 'em do it to that one. Probably the same price as paint, and more reversible if you want a change years later - just peel it off, tell 'em use white Elmers.

[jhale667]

Go to Performance and feel one Saturday. The snake is really thin, lightweight and it feels great.

You will be convinced to have 'em do it to that one. Probably the same price as paint, and more reversible if you want a change years later - just peel it off, tell 'em use white Elmers.

They didn't have any last time I was in there (not very far from here), unfortunately, but might be worth calling later to see if they have one in stock.
Won't be doing it with this one, as I'm set on recreating/correcting a design I didn't get right w/that neck years earlier (IS corrected now, just need the paint "re-imagined" correctly) for mostly sentimental reasons; But at the price-point KnE bodies go for, I can conceivably get bodies for both a snake and the Fair Warning one in the very near future, and get them both going as the post Voyager-Charvel (and now the offshoot natural Ash Musikraft) projects.

[Coyote]

Checking out the KnE site as I type...

"The Warren" sounds interesting... :biggrin:

[jhale667]

Checking out the KnE site as I type...

"The Warren" sounds interesting... :biggrin:


Yeah, might do snakeskin on a Dinky "Warren" body someday...the KnE guy's turnaround is 3-5 days, his communication is excellent...body I got was created the day before (he's local, so UPS got it here in a day), and is ridiculously close to the Musikraft - only his neck pocket and routs are tighter overall it seems...

[jhale667]

Uh-oh! :D

http://www.rollingchrome.com/jcf/2010/RealFeel.jpg

:hee:

Wait- bodies only - no matching headstocks? :umm:

[GAR]

That's like Dean Zelinsky's DBZ guitars, with his laser-burned "croc" finishes which I don't necessarily care for but can appreciate aesthetically.

The real skin's the way to go, but even if this guy did real snake hide applique's I wouldn't pay $600 fuckin dollars.

I mean, how long does it take to paste a skin down and trim the edges with an Xacto blade? 40 minutes?

I can see the hard part would be cutting the perimeter's top and bottom band edges straight.. like you might want to use a steel ruler or carpenters' square as a straight-edge. But once you got the side pasted, it's got to be an easy shot trimming the top.

Or vicey-versy: top, bottom, then band the side 'round it.

Ok maybe 2 hours with a bottle of Elmers. Nobody should have to pay $600 for the real thing, which has a nice exotic feel to it.

Graining the actual wood for 6 hun I don't thinks so!

[GAR]

They didn't have any last time I was in there.

They have cutoffs as samples.. duhh!

Ask to see samples. Of course they ain't gonna have any - they sell out everyone they make.

Even the ones they took to the show found homes the first day!

[Coyote]

I was poking around the 'net, looking for some alternative shielding methods...

And I bumbed into this site:
Control Plates - ID Info - USA Charvels (http://www.usacharvels.com/id/pg05.htm)

Of particular interest was the "Triangular shaped cavity w/metal cover early 1982 - current" bit.

http://www.usacharvels.com/id/images/control_02a.jpg

Looks easy enough... I might try that.

[Coyote]

Regular block arrived in the mail on Tuesday. :baaa:

and I gave up on the brass cavity shielding plate idea...
Not enough info to pursue that with confidence. Copper tape, instead.

[GAR]

I use 3" self-adhesive aluminum tape. Cut in strips, trim to curves with scissors, then fold the edges over the top ledge and do the backplate completely.

I overlap the edges by 1/8" and pierce the overlappings thru with the pointy edge of the multi-meter probe point. Then I check for continuity between strips to ensure full cavity contact.

Fender does this (or used to) with graphite paint, which is really fucking toxic. I don't get it. They do this before paint - a guy sits with a 5-gallon bucket of this stuff, and with a throwaway chip brush paints it into the pickup channels and cavity.

I don't know when they started this, I think it began in the mid 80s.

If you use copper tape, you must still pierce between overlapping layers so one bites thru the adhesive glue and into the next layer, otherwise it could possibly insulate from contact and you wont' get any noise-reduction benefit from your effort. But it sure looks pretty!

[Coyote]

Ok, I'm slightly annoyed now... (http://www.drumcityguitarland.com/drumcitygl/stores/1/Charvel-2010-USA-Warren-DeMartini-Dinky-Snakeskin-Graphic-Left-Handed-6-String-Electric-Guitar-P3427C6.aspx)

But not enough, given how much LESS mine cost... :biggrin:

[jhale667]

Gotta love a bargain, huh? :lmao:

[jhale667]

And while you're busy doing yours, seems mine has begun to reproduce somehow...:umm:

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h217/jhale667/No2andNo6sm.jpg

:lmao:

[Coyote]

And while you're busy doing yours, seems mine has begun to reproduce somehow...:umm:

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h217/jhale667/No2andNo6sm.jpg

:lmao:

At least the lineage seems consistant... :biggrin:

Am I seeing things, or is the one on the left recessed?

[jhale667]

At least the lineage seems consistant... :biggrin:

Am I seeing things, or is the one on the left recessed?

It is...the one on the right likely will be soon, as well. :baaa:
Ti block in the one on the left, Brass (for now) in the one on the right. Brass claws for both. :cool:

[GAR]

And while you're busy doing yours, seems mine has begun to reproduce somehow...:umm:

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h217/jhale667/No2andNo6sm.jpg

:lmao:

I used to do stupid shit like this, and I don't know what it's definition is psychologically but it isn't good.

Stick to my rule: if a new one comes in, an old one must go.

[Coyote]

It is...the one on the right likely will be soon, as well. :baaa:
Ti block in the one on the left, Brass (for now) in the one on the right. Brass claws for both. :cool:

How deep is the recess? A couple of mm's?

[jhale667]

How deep is the recess? A couple of mm's?


Yeah, about that in the front ;) - 3/8" (7.62cm) on the shelf, nothing too crazy in the back, like 5/8" (12.7cm). :baaa:


:guitar:

[Coyote]

Yeah, about that in the front ;) - 3/8" (7.62cm) on the shelf, nothing too crazy in the back, like 5/8" (12.7cm). :baaa:


:guitar:

Just wondering... 'cause the recess in mine seems quite shallow in comparison to, say, a Jackson. But that's a floating Floyd... :umm:

[jhale667]

Just wondering... 'cause the recess in mine seems quite shallow in comparison to, say, a Jackson. But that's a floating Floyd... :umm:

Dunno, I got my Musikraft body literally a few weeks before they started doing recessed trem routing, (dammit) :rolleyes: haven't seen theirs yet.
I thought the trend was to not do them quite as deep as the old days..but maybe I'm mistaken...
your mentioning it made me think this new KnE one seemed a hair more shallow than the recess on my Warmoth body (circa '96), but I just measured it and it's not...pretty much identical depths on the backside, at least..:umm:


:guitar:

[Coyote]

Well, take a look...

http://www.rotharmy.com/gallery/files/5/8/recess.jpg

[jhale667]

OK, that's really shallow....? :umm:

[Coyote]

Can't find anything accurate on the subject, either...

[jhale667]

Can't find anything accurate on the subject, either...

I've honestly never seen one that shallow...looks like they didn't finish the job, it's weird! Looks like whoever was doing it started, and then got unexpectedly called away... :confused:

I'll take a close-up of mine when I get home if you want to take it to someone and show them how it's supposed to look...

[jhale667]

Yeah, it should look more like this...

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h217/jhale667/Recesscomparison.jpg

Yours is "recessed" only in the sense that it will afford slightly lower string action, but it certainly isn't deep enough for upwards play when the bridge is set up level w/the face of the body, rather than pitched forwards...
I wonder if it's a case where they're offering varying degrees of depth for their recesses, and you have to specify if you want it deeper in the back?
Weird. 'Cause I mean, if that's their standard recess rout, they kinda shouldn't have bothered...:umm:

Edit: Also from your pic, looks like it may bind the Big-Block's travel a bit without modification...

[Coyote]

Yeah, it should look more like this...

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h217/jhale667/Recesscomparison.jpg

Yours is "recessed" only in the sense that it will afford slightly lower string action, but it certainly isn't deep enough for upwards play when the bridge is set up level w/the face of the body, rather than pitched forwards...
I wonder if it's a case where they're offering varying degrees of depth for their recesses, and you have to specify if you want it deeper in the back?
Weird. 'Cause I mean, if that's their standard recess rout, they kinda shouldn't have bothered...:umm:

Edit: Also from your pic, looks like it may bind the Big-Block's travel a bit without modification...

There wasn't a option for a specific recess depth... But ferchrissakes, what half-assery on Musikraft's end...

[jhale667]

There wasn't a option for a specific recess depth... But ferchrissakes, what half-assery on Musikraft's end...

Yeah, I went back and checked out the site...no options. Amazing they can make such cool bodies but would get something like that wrong...:umm:

[Coyote]

Yeah, I went back and checked out the site...no options. Amazing they can make such cool bodies but would get something like that wrong...:umm:

Guess I ordered it a little too close to Xmas... :biggrin:

But next time, I'll only get the neck from them. Unless KnE has superior wares by then...

[jhale667]

Guess I ordered it a little too close to Xmas... :biggrin:

But next time, I'll only get the neck from them. Unless KnE has superior wares by then...

Yeah, I'm dying to see if KnE can do an accurate clone Charvel neck...:D

Should be a pretty simple thing to get someone to deepen that cavity for you (and widen it where the block will pass through), but sucks you'd even have to! :pullinghair:

[GAR]

Ok, I'm slightly annoyed now... (http://www.drumcityguitarland.com/drumcitygl/stores/1/Charvel-2010-USA-Warren-DeMartini-Dinky-Snakeskin-Graphic-Left-Handed-6-String-Electric-Guitar-P3427C6.aspx)

But not enough, given how much LESS mine cost... :biggrin:

Thats a pretty cool store, I was there last year..

[Coyote]

Well, at least I have an update on things...

It's been primered, most likely it'll be finished by the time Easter rolls in.

And the way he described his idea on how to get the scales poppin' (he used the term "crackle"), I was reminded of this:


http://www.rollingchrome.com/jcf/2010/RealFeel.jpg


Although I doubt it's not gonna look as uniform as the above pic...

Which, on the other hand, would be ideal. :smoke:

[Coyote]

Quick update...

It ain't ready yet...

When I called him a couple of minutes ago, he was at a car show. (Apparently his project's out of the way.)

A bit later he asked me when I'd be goin' back to visit the old hometown.
I say, "two weeks from now".
He goes, "it'll be waiting for ya".

Hope springs eternal... :cool:

[Coyote]

Got an "in process" picture a few days back. I'll post it as soon as I can...

[Coyote]

Take a peek...

http://www.rotharmy.com/gallery/files/5/8/0002.jpg

Unfortunately, he had to paint the edges black... something about the "scales" looking a bit crappy...

I sent him a reference (http://richackermann.com/site/guitars/guitarPics/GmwFull2.jpg) pic, which looked radically different. Hasn't answered yet... :umm:

[jhale667]

Take a peek...

http://www.rotharmy.com/gallery/files/5/8/0002.jpg

Unfortunately, he had to paint the edges black... something about the "scales" looking a bit crappy...

I sent him a reference (http://richackermann.com/site/guitars/guitarPics/GmwFull2.jpg) pic, which looked radically different. Hasn't answered yet... :umm:

Interesting...like it so far?

[Coyote]

Interesting...like it so far?

It's cool. But apparently, he only did the front like that. Black sides/back.

Not exactly what I asked for, hence another reference pic... Luckily, that wasn't finished all the way.

I may sound like a cunt because of this, but I'm not compromising at this stage. And I'll pay the price for it... :biggrin:

[jhale667]

It's cool. But apparently, he only did the front like that. Black sides/back.

Not exactly what I asked for, hence another reference pic... Luckily, that wasn't finished all the way.

I may sound like a cunt because of this, but I'm not compromising at this stage. And I'll pay the price for it... :biggrin:


Why would you sound like a cunt, when you're just asking to get what you asked and are PAYING for? :D Y'know, not "Here's my interpretation of what you asked (and paid) for...:umm:

[Diamondjimi]

Why would you sound like a cunt, when you're just asking to get what you asked and are PAYING for? :D Y'know, not "Here's my interpretation of what you asked (and paid) for...:umm:

Exactly, exactly. I wouldn't stand for anything less than what I was expecting. If he doesn't do it the way you wanted, demand a discount!!!

[Diamondjimi]

Take a peek...

http://www.rotharmy.com/gallery/files/5/8/0002.jpg

Unfortunately, he had to paint the edges black... something about the "scales" looking a bit crappy...

I sent him a reference (http://richackermann.com/site/guitars/guitarPics/GmwFull2.jpg) pic, which looked radically different. Hasn't answered yet... :umm:

Damn dude, you practically could have done that yourself...

Give him shit for his fail!!!

[jhale667]

Exactly, exactly. I wouldn't stand for anything less than what I was expecting. If he doesn't do it the way you wanted, demand a discount!!!

Agree. I mean, you certainly have the right to - I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but you didn't ASK for the sides and back to be black, as I recall? And maybe it's the picture (checking it out on the larger monitor at home now), but the scale-pattern looks barely visible? :confused:

Actually, if you're really bent about it - demand a refund, strip it, and ship it to Mike Learn or Jeff Rich...send it slow-boat express to save some $$, but it'd be worth it.

Wait-did he start on the headstock yet?

[GAR]

This is why I initially suggested "do a trial on a cardboard cutout first."

If this guy does you right, and "gets it" you know, gets the feel of how the pattern goes, he will be the go-to guitar graphics guy in the whole area.

..however, has too steep a learning curve I believe.

I suggest parting ways, pay him like 30 euro for his trouble and tell him you need to try another guy twice his price but will get it right. He should agree this is not his thing especially if he's doing carshow stuff.

Then, I suggest you take it home, stretch some K-lathe over the back and hit it there and the sides a couple places with silver and beige to finish up while you think about it the next year or two who will redo it correctly.

At least for now it's got a sealer coat over the wood and that aint too bad is it?

[GAR]

the scale-pattern looks barely visible? :confused:

That looks like hairnet or fishnet stocking mesh, not K-lathe.

[Coyote]

Why would you sound like a cunt, when you're just asking to get what you asked and are PAYING for? :D Y'know, not "Here's my interpretation of what you asked (and paid) for...:umm:

Some people can be too sensitive... :biggrin:



Agree. I mean, you certainly have the right to - I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but you didn't ASK for the sides and back to be black, as I recall? And maybe it's the picture (checking it out on the larger monitor at home now), but the scale-pattern looks barely visible? :confused:

Actually, if you're really bent about it - demand a refund, strip it, and ship it to Mike Learn or Jeff Rich...send it slow-boat express to save some $$, but it'd be worth it.

Wait-did he start on the headstock yet?

No. And it's probably the pic. I messed around with the brightness/gamma/contrast, and that's the best I got out of it.


That looks like hairnet or fishnet stocking mesh, not K-lathe.

I'm not sure what he used, but I'm just glad he didn't offer that as a finished product.

[Sarge]

No offense, I don't really think that looks realistic, or any good!
Have you seen any of his other work?

[Coyote]

No offense, I don't really think that looks realistic, or any good!
Have you seen any of his other work?

None taken, since I don't think so m'self...
He mainly does cars. Last year, he did this:
http://files.americar.de/images/2008/10/339e36551e459ab0bd35015ab27c031f.jpg

I was working part-time at the amusement park where that picture was taken...

[jhale667]

Looks like he's good at metallic finishes, but this may be slightly beyond him. Looks like he did his practice run ON the guitar...

[ELVIS]

Probably looks better in person...

[jhale667]

By way of comparison, check out Jeff of RCA Guitars' new "Rattlesnake" finish...

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs444.snc3/25512_378313359927_114440589927_3570980_6384586_n. jpg

http://hphotos-sjc1.fbcdn.net/hs444.snc3/25512_378313364927_114440589927_3570981_7734450_n. jpg

To quote: "This Jackson is not your typical snakeskin paintjob--NO patterns, onion sacks, fishnet hose, or anything else used to "simulate" scales here...ONLY individual hand painted scales copied from real rattlesnake skin."

[Coyote]

http://hphotos-sjc1.fbcdn.net/hs444.snc3/25512_378313364927_114440589927_3570981_7734450_n. jpg

Oh fer fucks sake... If I sent this to my paint-guy, he'd kill me... :biggrin:

[Diamondjimi]

Oh fer fucks sake... If I sent this to my paint-guy, he'd kill me... :biggrin:

I would... ;)

[jhale667]

Oh fer fucks sake... If I sent this to my paint-guy, he'd kill me... :biggrin:

Or have a heart attack...lol. I spoke w/Jeff via email, that's the mock-up apparently, but he is painting the scales by hand. Holy crap I wanna see the finished version!


Seriously considering having him paint my Charvel mutt-build...:cool:

[jhale667]

Hey, he actually made a valid point here. :D



At least for now it's got a sealer coat over the wood and that aint too bad is it?

I agree (what? :confused: ) lemme amend my previous statement: Don't strip it completely, sand it down to the base coat, or at least to where it's usable and ready for the next guy you send it to. :baaa:

Or are you considering letting this guy try to salvage the job?

[VanHalenFan5150]

If you're going to spend that much time and trouble, you oughta go out and buy a pre-painted one...

[kwame k]

Gotta agree with the guys on this one, Coyote......from that picture I wouldn't except that.

[jhale667]

If you're going to spend that much time and trouble, you oughta go out and buy a pre-painted one...

But that kinda misses the point...if he's trying to create his own unique one, y'know?

[GAR]

sand it down to the base coat

Are you a painter, jackass? I said he oughta touch up the sides and back himself with 2euro cans of touchup hobby spray lacquers and just play the thing.

And who the fuck gets so anal about panting individual scales on a guitar body? That's stupid!

The whole thing about shooting a rattlesnake finish is, it's done in a single hour's worth of effort over the course of 3 hours, and then you decide whether you even want gloss coats or not!

It's punkrock. It's about a cheap emulation of the real thing, about the effectation of a snake.

It's always the guy who wants to corksniff everypart of where common sense left off so he can go "oh I could do better" and so what?

What happens when the pissing contest over who can handpaint snake scales more precisely becomes so hairsplitting, that the guitar is on the paint rack a whole year... and I have seen enough of this shit over the course of two decades that I won't stand for it myself. And I won't do it for under a grand.. so I don't. And nobody is willing to shell out $300 for even the two-day, ten-hour days of detailing this shit so perfect that the guy getting it will piss his pants when he recieves it, because the moment he scratches or chips it, he won't play it anymore.

Just touch it up Coyote, assemble in two weeks when it's cured, and play it.

[Diamondjimi]

Who cares and SHUT THE FUCK UP!:shiznit:

It's NOT your guitar and it's NOT your money.... :Loser:

[jhale667]

Who cares and SHUT THE FUCK UP!:shiznit:

It's NOT your guitar and it's NOT your money.... :Loser:


And no one gives a FLYING FUCK about his idiotic opinion. Not even Lefty. :biggrin:


Are you a painter, jackass?

Are you a guitarist, fuckstump? Didn't think so.

[LEFTY is Gar's Bitch]

i still care about gary even though we aint spoke much since i broke his nose.he's been sleeping in the tool shed since our fight.
i like your guitars jhale667.gary goes on and on about them all the time.i wasnt supozed to tell you but he wants to visit you and play them one day.even though he's not any good.

[jhale667]

i still care about gary even though we aint spoke much since i broke his nose.he's been sleeping in the tool shed since our fight.
i like your guitars jhale667.gary goes on and on about them all the time.i wasnt supozed to tell you but he wants to visit you and play them one day.even though he's not any good.

I want world peace, that ain't gonna happen either... :rolleyes:

[LEFTY is Gar's Bitch]

he argues with you because he admires you.you and that diamondjimi prick shood be nicer to him.

[Coyote]

For the record, it wasn't finished yet (it would've been and will be given a matte finish ultimately), and I have faith in his skills.
The only reason why it looked the way it did was due to my own omission of a decent reference pic, initially...

I'll pay him a visit tomorrow...



















Oh and GAR...























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[LEFTY is Gar's Bitch]

that wasnt nice.