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jhale667
12-16-2009, 10:03 PM
So a while back I got a program called MusEdit for checking transcriptions on the instructional videos of a company I used to work for. Pretty cool, plug in the notes, it transcribes it in tabulature and standard notation for you, and fairly easy to use...ended up transcribing the notes of pretty much every guitar lesson I've ever taken (and later given) over so many years. Never went back and made it "pretty" but got the idea down quick...not bad.

But since 'tis the season for giving and all, and some (cough, Ace) would like to see it here's the first few pages of the scales & modes chapter. Basic for some, but it works up to some kooky ones, don't worry... :D

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h217/jhale667/Guitar%20shite/Scales1.jpg

:guitar:

jhale667
12-16-2009, 10:07 PM
Read in Paul Harvey voice "Page...two.." :biggrin:

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h217/jhale667/Guitar%20shite/Scales2.jpg

jhale667
12-16-2009, 10:07 PM
:D

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h217/jhale667/Guitar%20shite/Scales3.jpg

jhale667
12-16-2009, 10:12 PM
:cool:

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h217/jhale667/Guitar%20shite/Scales4.jpg

jhale667
12-16-2009, 10:16 PM
OK, more later...maybe modes even...:hee:

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h217/jhale667/Guitar%20shite/Scales5.jpg

GO-SPURS-GO
12-16-2009, 10:24 PM
Where's the "oblivion" scale? :biggrin:

Diamondjimi
12-16-2009, 10:39 PM
http://www.funnyforumpics.com/forums/This-Thread-Delivers/1/thread-delivers.jpg

jhale667
12-16-2009, 10:42 PM
Where's the "oblivion" scale? :biggrin:

As soon as Thrills gets it to me, I'll put it on page 37. :tongue0011:


Thrills, is that the one with the lowered 7th and the raised 69th? (Ta-bump-crash!)

Yeah, yeah, I'm here all week, try the veal...

jhale667
12-16-2009, 10:48 PM
:hee: Here we have the infamous Satriani "Enigmatic" scale...

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h217/jhale667/Guitar%20shite/Scales6.jpg

ace diamond
12-16-2009, 10:55 PM
hey hale, i thank you very much.
keep 'em coming.
this is very useful stuff.
it will keep me bust for a while.

jhale667
12-16-2009, 10:56 PM
3-octave version...and who else gives you Bop scales, I ask you? :lmao:

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h217/jhale667/Guitar%20shite/Scales7.jpg

jhale667
12-16-2009, 11:03 PM
Last one, then later it's on to modes generated by the major scale. ;)

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h217/jhale667/Guitar%20shite/Scales8.jpg


:guitar:

ace diamond
12-16-2009, 11:03 PM
i think my fingers may get all twisted up :D
:lmao:

ace diamond
12-17-2009, 01:02 AM
i just ran through it all.
quite a workout.

GO-SPURS-GO
12-17-2009, 01:15 AM
i just ran through it all.
quite a workout.

<img src="http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/5674/smilevl9.png" alt="Image Hosted by ImageShack.us"/><br/> <a target="_new" href="http://profile.imageshack.us/user/gospursgo"></a>

ELVIS
12-17-2009, 02:04 AM
Cool! I need this stuff...


:elvis:

jackassrock
12-17-2009, 09:30 AM
I prefer the vodka pentatonic.

jhale667
12-17-2009, 10:39 AM
OK, since it seems you guys like it, I'll post the modes section tonight, and then there's a chapter on arpeggio forms and sequences...could post that too.

I've also dumped the entire Ted Greene "Chord Chemistry" book into this program (with his blessing); I hated the chord-diagrams in the edition of the book I'd learned from (way tiny), and was talking to him about it one day when I was lucky enough to meet him, told him I'd re-done them, he was like "The diagrams were my least favorite part of that printing...good job!" I originally transcribed all of this by hand, but got tired of having to re-copy it every time the papers started to disintegrate. My original lesson-book looks like the fucking dead sea scrolls now...had it since I was 14...:lmao:

But anyway, all together, printed out it's close to 100 pages...:baaa:

:guitar:

ThrillsNSpills
12-17-2009, 12:01 PM
As soon as Thrills gets it to me, I'll put it on page 37. :tongue0011:


Thrills, is that the one with the lowered 7th and the raised 69th? (Ta-bump-crash!)

Yeah, yeah, I'm here all week, try the veal...



It's about abandoning form, sound, and the needs of the audience.
Many got indigestion after Ace pioneered the oblivion scale Wednesday night between the salad and the manicotti. The audience/investors ponied up the funds to send the adventurous Diamond to France for a "gig" but were shocked, alarmed and pissed off when he came back.

Seeing a bloated sweaty guy bleeding and playing sour notes is good for the restaurant business. Keeps people from lingering in their seats after meals.

ThrillsNSpills
12-17-2009, 12:05 PM
1 3 5 7 8 on the A string.
Yes, it's quite an ascention.


I'm going back to the tonette.
this guy's ridiculous.
LMAO

ace diamond
12-17-2009, 01:45 PM
It's about abandoning form, sound, and the needs of the audience.
Many got indigestion after Ace pioneered the oblivion scale Wednesday night between the salad and the manicotti. The audience/investors ponied up the funds to send the adventurous Diamond to France for a "gig" but were shocked, alarmed and pissed off when he came back.

Seeing a bloated sweaty guy bleeding and playing sour notes is good for the restaurant business. Keeps people from lingering in their seats after meals.
:lmao:
the french didn't kick me out, i just couln't fucking stand them.
it was germany that threw me out and told me to go home.

RIMSHOT!

ELVIS
12-17-2009, 01:55 PM
Home where ??

ThrillsNSpills
12-17-2009, 02:00 PM
Allan Holdsworth phoned in and tried to give J the finger
but he broke it trying to play F melodic minor Ascending.

you might as well put the whole scale on 1 string if a seven fret reach at the bottom of the neck is required.

Maybe this is for Stanley Jordan students.



Bop till you drop

ace diamond
12-17-2009, 02:00 PM
Home where ??
they could not have cared less, as long as i got the fuck out of their country.
home is southern california.

ace diamond
12-17-2009, 02:03 PM
Allan Holdsworth phoned in and tried to give J the finger
but he broke it trying to play F melodic minor Ascending.

you might as well put the whole scale on 1 string if a seven fret reach at the bottom of the neck is required.

Maybe this is for Stanley Jordan students.



Bop till you drop
i managed to do it.
and if i can do it, and i have small hands, anyone can do it.

Nitro Express
12-17-2009, 02:26 PM
I prefer the vodka pentatonic.

I like Tanqueray in my pentatonic.

Nitro Express
12-17-2009, 02:27 PM
I learned how to play guitar from a black man missing half his teeth. He never taught me any of this shit. I learned seven bars and this box thingy.

ace diamond
12-17-2009, 03:03 PM
I prefer the vodka pentatonic.
nothing like a pentatonic ice beer

ELVIS
12-17-2009, 05:59 PM
I taught myself by listening to records and playing for hours a day and jamming with friends...

Now i'm trying to catch up by learning stuff like jhale has posted...


:elvis:

VAiN
12-17-2009, 07:54 PM
Cool stuff! Thanks for sharing this... it's been 20 years and I never got around to learning any scales either..

jhale667
12-17-2009, 08:51 PM
I taught myself by listening to records and playing for hours a day and jamming with friends...

Now i'm trying to catch up by learning stuff like jhale has posted...


:elvis:

Glad you like. I was fortunate enough to get to study for two years (15-17) with a guy named Chuck Biel, one of the best teachers in my home state...he's actually Dean of Guitar Studies at the State University now. Monster player, you couldn't help but learn when around the guy. Great on guitar, but truly frightening on bass. :cool:

And he was pals with some heavy-duty jazz players, even managed to bring Frank Gambale of Chick Corea's band in our po-dunk town for a clinic and private lesson deal a few years after and invited me and some of his other cool former students to, in '89 I think. That was pretty intense, as that dude is like the Yngwie of Jazz as far as sweep-picking goes.

Anyway, his (Chuck's) method was you showed up with one of those Ernie Ball neck chart books (think they're still only like $2.99 today) with the blank 1-octave fretboards, and your own copy of Ted Greene's Chord Chemistry. he taught you chords and scales concurrently (had it figured out how many pages to skip to start each chapter in the blank books - WAY impressive to a pre-internet 14 yr old...lol), and if you did your homework, he'd teach you "Eruption" or "Battleaxe" or "The End of the World"...stuff like that. So you basically filled up a couple of those neck chart books if you stayed with it for a year or two. Took theory courses with him on top of that, cool shit.

We've kept in touch over the years, great guy... and I credit him for my total dedication level to the instrument and music in general as much as I credit EVH with my insane dedication to tinkering with them...:D

He hugely pushes ear training, and I completely agree. When I was a kid taking lessons from him, I didn't learn a song...I learned the entire album (or tried to) if I liked it!!

Fortunately, I've always been an information packrat, and I held on to my materials...had to re-copy them by hand once (aforementioned dead-sea scroll action) and that sucked. But now that it's digitized, and I can break it down into 3-scale jpgs even Ace can read ;) why not share with the group?

MusEdit makes it easy to check for mistakes too, will play the scale you've entered back to you as a MIDI-file (stock piano tone, but still)...pretty sure you can import completed compositions into sequencers too, but never tried it...


:guitar:

jhale667
12-17-2009, 09:04 PM
OK, moving right along, the for the uninitiated, starting a scale on any degree other than the first (while maintaining the specific scale's note formula) is to play a mode generated by that scale.

For this example, we'll use the C major scale...try to spot the relative minor scale for bonus points...:biggrin:

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h217/jhale667/Guitar%20shite/Modes1.jpg

jhale667
12-17-2009, 09:08 PM
:baaa:

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h217/jhale667/Guitar%20shite/Modes2.jpg

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h217/jhale667/Guitar%20shite/Modes3.jpg

ace diamond
12-17-2009, 09:26 PM
OK, moving right along, the for the uninitiated, starting a scale on any degree other than the first (while maintaining the specific scale's note formula) is to play a mode generated by that scale.

For this example, we'll use the C major scale...try to spot the relative minor scale for bonus points...:biggrin:

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h217/jhale667/Guitar%20shite/Modes1.jpg
the dorian

jhale667
12-17-2009, 10:13 PM
Here's where it gets interesting: Modes generated by an ascending Melodic Minor...

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h217/jhale667/Guitar%20shite/MelodicMinorModes1.jpg

jhale667
12-17-2009, 10:16 PM
:killer:

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h217/jhale667/Guitar%20shite/MelodicMinorModes2.jpg

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h217/jhale667/Guitar%20shite/MelodicMinorModes3.jpg

GAR
12-17-2009, 11:08 PM
I couldn't afford lessons. I used to walk to school with the guitar case for 2 miles most of it along the train tracks because it was the straightest walk to school. But not the safest trip for a $5 Harmony classical strung with Ernie Ball 9's in a chipboard case.

My guitar teacher taught beginning classical, I had that for a year.

Then I had 3 friends who took lessons from Tommy Girven from Smile, one of those also took lessons later from Wolf Marshall who drove a Rolls Royce off his Starlicks royalties.. he taught at Waltrips' Music in Arcadia, it's still around but he's long gone.

After that, I took some lessons from Chet Thompson at Dr. Music, and Joey Taffola who took lessons from Vinnie Moore and the Kurt James.

All that being said, I am sure I know 5 chords and 2 scales in two octaves!

ace diamond
12-17-2009, 11:11 PM
oh boy.......hey hale, do you have the 100 pages as a .pdf file?
that way i could download the whole thing and work my way through it
rather slowly so as to make sure i am catching on and learning this stuff right,
and so i can put it on a flash drive so i can take it to kinko's and print it out.
so i can really study it closely.
and then of course study by application with my guitar in my hands.

jhale667
12-18-2009, 01:00 AM
Haven't converted it to pdf, no. Hadn't really thought about it, to be honest. :umm: That page count is if I print it directly out of MusEdit, I had to break it down to 3 (.med) files in that...
And chord chemistry is something that should be everyone's go-to reference manual. There's an entire section on chord-substitution that's brilliant...the musical equivalent of "Don't wanna use the standard Cmin7 form? Use this weirdo inversion!" Would've thought it would have been made it downloadable by now, but a quick Google search only finds Amazon.com book listings and whatnot...

And a Wikipedia bio that says he passed away in 2005. :( Did not know that. R.I.P., Ted! :yourock:

ace diamond
12-18-2009, 01:31 AM
damn. that sucks,man.

ELVIS
12-18-2009, 01:47 AM
I learned the entire album, many of them...

Great post jh...

Nitro Express
12-18-2009, 05:37 AM
In my experience, the people who were very proficient at music theory typically played like a robot. No feel. They were excellent in the technical application and had the technical ability to piece together complicated pieces of music but nothing good seemed to come from it.

jhale667
12-18-2009, 10:16 AM
My teacher's attitude (which I later adopted) was basically, learn enough of it so that it becomes second nature - meaning you don't even have to think about the relative major to the minor key you're playing in or whatever, that way you have a wealth of info to draw on for improvising, and interpreting chord progressions - but then throw it out the window and just play. :D

I mean, it's never like I'm soloing in A minor and think "Hey, now would be a cool time to throw in that lick based on E phrygian..." :rolleyes: Those types, the ones that worry about that shit in advance, are the ones that sound robotic.

Kind of like that old Billy Sheehan GIT/BIT ad "You have to learn the rules before you can break them."


:guitar:

kwame k
12-18-2009, 12:19 PM
Quick question on these scales and nodes......
























































How in the fuck do you play 'em with sticks:pullinghair:

jhale667
12-18-2009, 12:28 PM
On a Xylophone? :lmao:

kwame k
12-18-2009, 01:02 PM
On a Xylophone? :lmao:

WTF does medical equipment have to do with this, Hale:confused11:

Nitro Express
12-18-2009, 01:06 PM
My teacher's attitude (which I later adopted) was basically, learn enough of it so that it becomes second nature - meaning you don't even have to think about the relative major to the minor key you're playing in or whatever, that way you have a wealth of info to draw on for improvising, and interpreting chord progressions - but then throw it out the window and just play. :D

I mean, it's never like I'm soloing in A minor and think "Hey, now would be a cool time to throw in that lick based on E phrygian..." :rolleyes: Those types, the ones that worry about that shit in advance, are the ones that sound robotic.

Kind of like that old Billy Sheehan GIT/BIT ad "You have to learn the rules before you can break them."


:guitar:

It's all how you're wired. Some people can put sex into sound and other's are like Mr. Spock working on a math project. Some have managed to turn Mr. Spock into art but few do. I know a guy who majored in music and was a master on the theory side but he then went on to get a degree in physics. He told me in many ways physics is easier than music.

The thing is the man was smart enough to know how he was wired and went in the direction of his natural ability. Too many people are trying to be something they aren't and it later fucks them in the head and makes them unhappy.

jhale667
12-18-2009, 01:22 PM
:biggrin:

WTF does medical equipment have to do with this, Hale:confused11:

That'll be enough out of you, Mr. K! :lol:

kwame k
12-18-2009, 01:28 PM
Sorry, Jay......I'll go back to the drummer's forum:)

jhale667
12-18-2009, 01:34 PM
Sorry, Jay......I'll go back to the drummer's forum:)

J/K, dude...that was actually the first thing I could think of you'd be able to play notes/scales on with sticks, but we've all seen Neil Peart do it on chimes, too...Red Barchetta, IIRC? ;)

kwame k
12-18-2009, 01:44 PM
Just foolin' about myself;)

Truth of the matter is I am practicing the first few scales you posted. I only used guitar to write songs and never took the time to learn anything other than the "cowboy chords" and bar chords. So this is really interesting to me and a great help.

But in keeping with our long standing practice of ragging on drummers, I just couldn't help myself;)

Hardrock69
12-18-2009, 05:04 PM
I believe in playing in the Phryxolydian X Manor Key.

ELVIS
12-18-2009, 05:13 PM
I believe in playing in the Phryxolydian X Manor Key.

Keep it up. It will get you nowhere...

Igosplut
12-18-2009, 05:57 PM
Just foolin' about myself;)

Truth of the matter is I am practicing the first few scales you posted. I only used guitar to write songs and never took the time to learn anything other than the "cowboy chords" and bar chords. So this is really interesting to me and a great help.

But in keeping with our long standing practice of ragging on drummers, I just couldn't help myself;)

Christ, just looking at the stuff I'd think I'd have a better shot at doin brain surgery than that.....

ELVIS
12-18-2009, 06:01 PM
It's not easy, i'll give you that...

kwame k
12-18-2009, 06:56 PM
Christ, just looking at the stuff I'd think I'd have a better shot at doin brain surgery than that.....

The numbers correspond to the frets you play, starting with the number to the left and the bottom of the staff.

Igo, if a drummer can figure it out:biggrin:

jhale667
12-18-2009, 08:08 PM
The numbers correspond to the frets you play, starting with the number to the left and the bottom of the staff.

Igo, if a drummer can figure it out:biggrin:

:biggrin: OK, that was funny. The Drummer's got it right, Igo - :lmao: String are as if you laid the guitar flat in your lap; low to high.

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h217/jhale667/Guitar%20shite/Fretboardchart2.jpg

The numbers in the tab represent the fret location on each respective string.

Notice I did 'em so there aren't even suggested fingerings (as is the case with some transcriptions) the idea being that you come up with what works best for you.

I mean, some guitarists use their pinky; others refuse, and would rather not use it to fret a chord unless they have to :rolleyes: My teacher was like "You're born with four fingers on your fretting hand, why wouldn't you use them all?" But let's assume one does.

It kinda depends on your own reach, but I find the most economic way to play, say, the long G major example:

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h217/jhale667/Guitar%20shite/Scaleex1.jpg

OK - looking at that one, factoring in A ) I use my pinky and B ) I have a better-than average fret-stretch with my left hand, this seems to be the most logical fingering to me (low to high "-"= whole-step ","= half)


1-2-4 (again, low E)
1-2-4
1,2-4
1,2-4
1-3,4

But hey, for one of the "my pinky is a useless stump" ;) dudes, that's a lot of "4"s. :D They would have to approach it differently, but to each his own.

kwame k
12-18-2009, 08:12 PM
Great, now I'm confused:headlights:

ELVIS
12-18-2009, 08:30 PM
You and Gar both suck...

jhale667
12-18-2009, 08:31 PM
Any discussion of guitar playing and music would pretty much be remiss if it didn't touch on the circle of fifths and basic theory. But rather than deal with recopying my notes, found a much cooler graph of it online. ;)

The Circle of Fifths (http://cnx.org/content/m10865/latest/)

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h217/jhale667/Guitar%20shite/CircleofFifths.png


Keys are not considered closely related to each other if they are near each other in the chromatic scale (or on a keyboard). What makes two keys "closely related" is having similar key signatures. So the most closely related key to C major, for example, is A minor, since they have the same key signature (no sharps and no flats). This puts them in the same "slice" of the circle. The next most closely related keys to C major would be G major (or E minor), with one sharp, and F major (or D minor), with only one flat. The keys that are most distant from C major, with six sharps or six flats, are on the opposite side of the circle.


The circle of fifths gets its name from the fact that as you go from one section of the circle to the next, you are going up or down by an interval of a perfect fifth. If you go up a perfect fifth (clockwise in the circle), you get the key that has one more sharp or one less flat; if you go down a perfect fifth (counterclockwise), you get the key that has one more flat or one less sharp. Since going down by a perfect fifth is the same as going up by a perfect fourth, the counterclockwise direction is sometimes referred to as a "circle of fourths".


One you kinda understand that, and scale formulas, you realize that the third degree of a minor scale is the first note of it's relative major (like e-G in the above example), and conversely the fifth degree of a major scale determines the minor (G-e)...it all starts to make sense...

kwame k
12-18-2009, 08:33 PM
You and Gar both suck...

Lighten up...I hope Santa gets you a sense of humor this year.

jhale667
12-18-2009, 08:39 PM
This is probably one of the best things you can do with a fretboard chart.

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h217/jhale667/Guitar%20shite/Fretboardchart2.jpg

So let's say you wanna know everywhere you can play in any given position in E minor. So you know those notes are

E, F#, G, A, B, C, D, E right? And you know the relative major is G which is

G, A, B, C, D, E, F#, G yes?

So map every available note in that key out on each string over the first octave.
Low E open, 2nd fret, 3, 5, 7, 8, 10, 12. And so on. all the way up to the 12th fret on each string. Then you'll notice those little "box" patterns and shit you already knew, but didn't know how to connect the dots...congrats, you just did! :D

GAR
12-19-2009, 01:10 AM
I'd think I'd have a better shot at doin brain surgery than that.....

So, so many WAYS to peel an onion of a post like this..

Igosplut
12-19-2009, 06:13 AM
.......

Coward says what?

Diamondjimi
12-19-2009, 11:29 AM
...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v204/Federaljim/Trollonignore.jpg

jhale667
12-19-2009, 11:48 AM
:rolleyes: Shall we continue?

Figured I'd post the exotic scale section before we get to stuff like arpeggios.

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h217/jhale667/Guitar%20shite/ExotcScales1.jpg

jhale667
12-19-2009, 12:13 PM
II.

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h217/jhale667/Guitar%20shite/ExoticScales2.jpg

jhale667
12-19-2009, 12:43 PM
III.

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h217/jhale667/Guitar%20shite/ExoticScales3.jpg

jhale667
12-19-2009, 07:02 PM
Here's a cool lick and great exercise from Paul Gilbert...

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/efq_lPN2TZE&hl=en_US&fs=1&color1=0x006699&color2=0x54abd6"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/efq_lPN2TZE&hl=en_US&fs=1&color1=0x006699&color2=0x54abd6" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Nice EVH/Lynch reference in there...

OK, more wacky scale patterns later... ;)

standin
12-19-2009, 07:16 PM
On a Xylophone? :lmao:

And steel drums?

ELVIS
12-19-2009, 08:16 PM
What do you know...

ThrillsNSpills
12-21-2009, 12:05 PM
bump cos the other thread should be locked and dumped. :)

ThrillsNSpills
12-21-2009, 12:07 PM
I learned the entire album, many of them...

Great post jh...


what album?

what are you talking aboot?

the Teddy Greene scale album?

ace diamond
12-21-2009, 12:23 PM
this thread should be stickied!

Diamondjimi
12-21-2009, 01:21 PM
this thread should be stickied!

Now yer making sense!

ThrillsNSpills
12-21-2009, 02:31 PM
I just got a Teddy Greene chord book in the mail today.

It's a shame they don't lay the scales out like Hale but that's why this thread rocks. Good call on the sticky.

ace diamond
12-21-2009, 03:07 PM
Now yer making sense!
:barf:don't ya just fucking hate it when i do that every now and then?:biggrin:

jhale667
12-21-2009, 03:53 PM
Stickied it is. :D

kwame k
12-21-2009, 07:42 PM
Stickied it is. :D


About time, Hale:beers8:

Igosplut
12-21-2009, 07:45 PM
Stickied it is. :D

Thought they took your magic twanger away there for a minute....

jhale667
12-21-2009, 08:11 PM
Thought they took your magic twanger away there for a minute....

;) Nah, just kinda busy...

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h217/jhale667/Guitar%20shite/ExoticScales4.jpg

jhale667
12-21-2009, 08:18 PM
Have another...:D

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h217/jhale667/Guitar%20shite/ExoticScales5.jpg

jhale667
12-21-2009, 08:45 PM
:cool:

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h217/jhale667/Guitar%20shite/ExoticScales6.jpg

GAR
12-21-2009, 09:51 PM
Any Eric Johnson fanboy in you care to post an Iwato / Ioato or wtf its' called..

kwame k
12-21-2009, 10:34 PM
You know what, Clay....if you have nothing to add to a thread, constructively, stay the fuck out.

Diamondjimi
12-21-2009, 10:36 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v204/Federaljim/GARfailPwn3dforlife.jpg

jhale667
12-21-2009, 10:56 PM
"Iwato" was actually in the next couple of pages I was going to post, but because of that, now I'm gonna go all scale-nazi on you.

kwame k
12-21-2009, 11:01 PM
Oh for fuck's sake NOOOOOO! My fingers are still burning from the C Harmonic thingy in post #82!

Please not the scale-nazi, Jay! Have pity....I'm a fucking drummer, bitch;)

GAR
12-22-2009, 02:13 AM
You know what, Clay....if you have nothing to add to a thread, constructively, stay the fuck out.

If you don't dig Eric Johnson tricks, thats just fine with me.

ace diamond
12-22-2009, 03:17 AM
fucking hell, jay, this is fucking good shit......keep it coming.

jhale667
12-22-2009, 11:49 AM
fucking hell, jay, this is fucking good shit......keep it coming.

Will do, I just have to make a note to myself remember to omit the "Iwato" scale when I post the next batch...:hee:

Coyote
12-22-2009, 05:13 PM
Some those fingerings are a little weird, IMO...

Personally, I would've played that C Lydian Minor like this:

------------------------------------------4--6--8--
---------------------------------5--7--8-----------
-----------------------3--5--7---------------------
-------------4--5--6-------------------------------
---3--5--7-----------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------

But that's just me, right?

jhale667
12-22-2009, 05:28 PM
Yeah, as far as the fingerings go, they're totally up to interpretation.


Like the 4th finger example I posted...a lot of these will have to be RE-interpreted by someone who thinks their pinky is for decorative purposes only...:hee:

Coyote
12-22-2009, 05:35 PM
Yeah, as far as the fingerings go, they're totally up to interpretation. Like the 4th finger example I posted...a lot of these will have to be RE-interpreted by someone who thinks their pinky is for decorative purposes only...:hee:

Like most things in guitar playing... :biggrin:

jhale667
12-22-2009, 08:30 PM
:lmao: Aw...it was gonna be in the very next example, too...and then somebody had to open their big trap...:lol:

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h217/jhale667/Guitar%20shite/ExoticScales7iwatodenied.jpg

:tongue0011: (I'll probably post the real jpg later...)

jhale667
12-22-2009, 08:53 PM
;)

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h217/jhale667/Guitar%20shite/ExoticScales8.jpg

jhale667
12-22-2009, 09:01 PM
We interrupt the scale segment of the program for a cool Doug Aldrich lesson...:notworthy:

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Diamondjimi
12-22-2009, 10:23 PM
Doug is a great player. Taste, shred and style. H's got all the bases covered. Reminds me a bit of Randy at times.
Let's hope he never accepts an offer from the O$bournes. They'll have him flush his identity down the drain (see Gus G.) and force him to simply immitate Zakk's cheesy over done horsey squeals and donkey farts...

jhale667
12-22-2009, 10:30 PM
Doug is a great player. Taste, shred and style. H's got all the bases covered. Reminds me a bit of Randy at times.
Let's hope he never accepts an offer from the O$bournes. They'll have him flush his identity down the drain (see Gus G.) and force him to simply immitate Zakk's cheesy over done horsey squeals and donkey farts...

Since he's already played for Dio, maybe that puts him off the market? ;) But agree, he's got it all, and TONE for days too...best Marshalls I ever freakin' heard...:cool:

Diamondjimi
12-22-2009, 10:35 PM
Too bad he's in Whitesnake (have you heard Coverdale these days? :barf: ) .
Good enough gig regardless. Shit, at least he isn't a complete whore like Viv Cambell and having to play rhythm stooge to a second rate "shred" hack like Phil Colon for a pay cheque ... :D

jhale667
12-22-2009, 10:37 PM
OK, back to it...
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h217/jhale667/Guitar%20shite/ExoticScales9.jpg

jhale667
12-22-2009, 10:47 PM
Too bad he's in Whitesnake (have you heard Coverdale these days? :barf: ) .
Good enough gig regardless. Shit, at least he isn't a complete whore like Viv Cambell and having to play rhythm stooge to a second rate "shred" hack like Phil Colon for a pay cheque ... :D

That last CD was pretty good, but haven't heard Coverdale live in eons...

Phil Collen shreds a little harder than you think, dude...impressed Rhoads when his then band Girl toured with Ozzy according to Rudy's book...

But he and Viv are about evenly matched....and both pray at the altar of Gary Moore. :biggrin:
Their styles are kinda... similar actually...haven't seen 'em to see how they keep it from sounding boring...?

jhale667
12-22-2009, 10:54 PM
:D
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h217/jhale667/Guitar%20shite/ExoticScales10.jpg

Diamondjimi
12-23-2009, 12:59 PM
That last CD was pretty good, but haven't heard Coverdale live in eons...

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Poo poo vocals, Aldrich smokes!


Phil Collen shreds a little harder than you think, dude...impressed Rhoads when his then band Girl toured with Ozzy according to Rudy's book...

Meh, a little bit ,me guess. A couple of Moore licks, desending diminished scale add harmonizer and whammy out... Viola' arena solo! :biggrin:
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Coyote
12-23-2009, 02:14 PM
Thanks for the Aldrich clips, J. I need a beer...

GAR
12-24-2009, 12:33 AM
Coverdale looks so fat wet n sweaty, about as bad as me comin out of the shower into my pyjamies.. he's a fuckin PIG isn't he

jhale667
12-27-2009, 04:51 PM
Let's do another Gilbert alternate-picking rutbuster before we get into more scale forms..

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Igosplut
12-27-2009, 08:00 PM
........

Coward says what?

jhale667
12-28-2009, 12:13 AM
:rolleyes:

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h217/jhale667/Guitar%20shite/ExoticScales11.jpg

jhale667
12-28-2009, 12:16 AM
:guitar:

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h217/jhale667/Guitar%20shite/ExoticScales12.jpg

jhale667
12-28-2009, 12:33 AM
Oh, and before I forget...:rolleyes:

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h217/jhale667/Guitar%20shite/ExoticScales7.jpg

jhale667
12-28-2009, 01:07 AM
So here's a real-world example: Lead section for a tune I was finishing the guitar tracks on. Though the overall tonality of the tune is F# minor, for the lead break it modulates to C#minor (trying in some cases to make the lead sections mini-compositions ala Rhoads).

So the chord progression I had to work with was an arpeggiated C#min, A, and B. Which meant my "inside" scale choice was Emajor and C#minor. And then I also had to come back from the lead into the chorus, and had the tag for the fadeout to do, which is fully over the main theme of the tune, which is in F#minor. OK, so automatically I've got that and A major to work with there. Knowing I had other options to choose from allowed me to throw in blues scale notes and chromaticisms to spice things up a bit:

SoundClick artist: Jay Hale - Guitarist, songwriter, guitar-builder (http://soundclick.com/share?songid=8527083)

For the end part of the lead though it was a semi-conscious decision, it wasn't a big deal to pull an ascending run in C#minor, hold the end note, and them descend in F#minor and vibe out, if that makes any sense. :D

I'm not saying you (or I, or anyone) should know every one of these scale forms and permutations by heart, but getting their various tonalities under your fingers opens up a whole different ballpark of improvisational options...


:guitar:

jhale667
12-29-2009, 12:29 AM
:killer:

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h217/jhale667/Guitar%20shite/ExoticScales13.jpg

jhale667
12-29-2009, 12:33 AM
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h217/jhale667/Guitar%20shite/ExoticScales14.jpg

ace diamond
12-29-2009, 02:10 AM
THANKS HALE.......keep it coming........oh, and before i forget, thanks for the "iwato":D
i am slowly working my way through this stuff and finding how very useful the different tonal variations
can be.
this is excellent stuff to add into my admittedly limited bag of licks......it's really opening new doors to new avenues of improvisitation and exploration.

this stuff is ace!

jhale667
02-05-2010, 09:48 PM
Alright, have a minute to bump this...

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h217/jhale667/Guitar%20shite/ExoticScales15.jpg

ace diamond
02-01-2011, 01:23 AM
Yeah, as far as the fingerings go, they're totally up to interpretation.
Like the 4th finger example I posted...a lot of these will have to be RE-interpreted by someone who thinks their pinky is for decorative purposes only...:hee:
come now hale.......i use my pinky plenty.
i'm developing a quite considerable reach soloing on the higher frets further down the neck.....when i'm just jamming and practicing here at home.

jhale667
10-18-2011, 10:56 PM
Guthrie Govan Blues Scale incorporation, Chromatic-passing tone-using -String-Skipping Arpeggio Lesson BUMP. :killer:








:guitar:

jhale667
11-30-2011, 01:00 PM
This is a pretty good close-up "how do you play that?" vid...

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Nitro Express
11-30-2011, 01:08 PM
I aways wondered how Ed got that nice ringing sound when he tapped the strings. Then I learned you really have to smack the hell out of them. You have to have strong hands to play like Ed and finesse. I actually got better at playing guitar by playing bass. It just built my hand strength up to the point where the guitar felt like a little toy and I could torture the thing into screaming out some good music. That really is the secret to Ed. Abuse the guitar with finesse. Just pretend the guitar is your bitch and slap it around until it screams and moans. It really is electric sex.

jhale667
11-30-2011, 01:15 PM
Abuse the guitar with finesse. Just pretend the guitar is your bitch and slap it around until it screams and moans. It really is electric sex.


Ever notice the best, most admirable players don't baby their instruments at all? They're literally smacking the shit out of them. Players like Ed, SRV, Gary Moore, Lonnie Mack...their vibrato involved the whole neck of the guitar, not just one or two strings...

ThrillsNSpills
11-30-2011, 01:20 PM
Ever notice the best, most admirable players don't baby their instruments at all? They're literally smacking the shit out of them. Players like Ed, SRV, Gary Moore, Lonnie Mack...their vibrato involved the whole neck of the guitar, not just one or two strings...

I left my G and L out in the rain once. Brought it back inside and the action was perfect. Carved a divot into the body with my middle finger from saw-picking on the thing for 30 years.
damn, I got issues .

Nitro Express
11-30-2011, 01:37 PM
Ever notice the best, most admirable players don't baby their instruments at all? They're literally smacking the shit out of them. Players like Ed, SRV, Gary Moore, Lonnie Mack...their vibrato involved the whole neck of the guitar, not just one or two strings...

I really think that is the secret. I just got stuck playing bass in our band and had to focus on that and kind of forgot about the guitar and then one day I picked up a guitar and my approach was way different than it used to be. I really smacked the thing around and got good things out of it. You just have to eat your Wheaties and give her a mauling. I went to the Fur Peace Ranch and brought my Jack Casady bass with me. Jack himself taught the class and I wanted to get the sustain and ringing on my bass like he got so the man himself set my bass up for me. He set the neck perfectly straight and raised the strings quite a bit. I got the sound I wanted but man what a workout on the hands! So I played that setup for a few years and grabbed a guitar and man. Discovered something new.

Jack started off as a guitar player and then out of necessity got stuck playing the bass because the band he was in needed a bass player. So he incorporated melodic playing, finger vibrato, and chords into his bass playing. He approached it from a guitar player standpoint. You do that on a bass and then go to a guitar, WOW! You get a harmonic and resonance thing going that you just don't get playing the instrument with a lighter touch. You really have to build up your hands to do it though.

Eddie is basically playing funk on the guitar. Mean Streets is nothing but slapping and popping the strings like a bass player. It's harder to do because the strings are smaller but that is all it is. Ed uses a lot of bass trickery on the guitar and I just really started discovering that.

Nitro Express
11-30-2011, 01:55 PM
Actually apply these funky bass techniques to your guitar playing and see where it takes you. You will come up with some cool shit.



See the slap funk technique in Ed's playing? He's slapping the shit out of those strings.

jhale667
11-30-2011, 02:04 PM
Yup, IIRC Ed said in an interview he came up with the "Mean Street" intro playing around with slapping ala Larry Graham, Stanley Clarke or some other Motown bassist he was digging on at the time...

rocknrolldork
11-30-2011, 02:30 PM
I really think that is the secret. I just got stuck playing bass in our band and had to focus on that and kind of forgot about the guitar and then one day I picked up a guitar and my approach was way different than it used to be. I really smacked the thing around and got good things out of it. You just have to eat your Wheaties and give her a mauling. I went to the Fur Peace Ranch and brought my Jack Casady bass with me. Jack himself taught the class and I wanted to get the sustain and ringing on my bass like he got so the man himself set my bass up for me. He set the neck perfectly straight and raised the strings quite a bit. I got the sound I wanted but man what a workout on the hands! So I played that setup for a few years and grabbed a guitar and man. Discovered something new.

Jack started off as a guitar player and then out of necessity got stuck playing the bass because the band he was in needed a bass player. So he incorporated melodic playing, finger vibrato, and chords into his bass playing. He approached it from a guitar player standpoint. You do that on a bass and then go to a guitar, WOW! You get a harmonic and resonance thing going that you just don't get playing the instrument with a lighter touch. You really have to build up your hands to do it though.

Eddie is basically playing funk on the guitar. Mean Streets is nothing but slapping and popping the strings like a bass player. It's harder to do because the strings are smaller but that is all it is. Ed uses a lot of bass trickery on the guitar and I just really started discovering that.

I 100% agree. Playing bass totally changed the way I play guitar now. I even moved up to 11s on the sg and tele. still like 10s on strats and lps

Coyote
11-30-2011, 03:24 PM
Ever notice the best, most admirable players don't baby their instruments at all? They're literally smacking the shit out of them. Players like Ed, SRV, Gary Moore, Lonnie Mack...their vibrato involved the whole neck of the guitar, not just one or two strings...

Can't get a decent "ricochet" pinch harmonic (á la Sykes or Wylde) with a feathery touch...

Once you get that going on a bass, you're solid.

Nitro Express
11-30-2011, 04:15 PM
I think it's easier to do on bass because the strings are bigger. I can get great pinch harmonics just going off the tip of the pick and letting the string hit my thumb. It's a feel thing. I have the advantage of being a classical guitar player and also playing finger style bass 98% of the time. I have a lot of strength and dexterity in my right hand. It's helps.

rocknrolldork
11-30-2011, 04:38 PM
I think it's easier to do on bass because the strings are bigger. I can get great pinch harmonics just going off the tip of the pick and letting the string hit my thumb. It's a feel thing. I have the advantage of being a classical guitar player and also playing finger style bass 98% of the time. I have a lot of strength and dexterity in my right hand. It's helps.

There are some great harmonic overtones for some of the higher runs on bass. Anthony Hamilton's bass player is a monster at getting those tones. Still a work in progress for me.

Nitro.... I was trained in classical as well. I'm finding that I use the classical guitar right hand style more than the proper bass hand technique. Do you do this as well or have you adapted your right hand technique to the bass style over the years? Also... did you mod your epi head to gig bass through it? I tried it and it just completely distorts and doesn't grab the low like it should.

jhale667
06-22-2012, 11:22 PM
New Stuff BUMP. :D

Recently got asked to do a series of articles for Seymour Duncan Pickups. Pretty frickin' stoked and honored. :notworthy: So here's the 1st one:

http://www.seymourduncan.com/blog/tips-and-tricks/getting-the-most-out-of-your-guitars-controls-while-playing/

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h217/jhale667/LosAngeles-20120607-00419.jpg


:guitar:

ace diamond
07-10-2015, 05:28 PM
JHALE....the stuff you put up on this thread has been of great help to me. my playing has made a massive leap in improvements since you shared this stuff with us. thanks.
Ace

Diamondjimi
07-13-2015, 07:45 AM
JHALE....the stuff you put up on this thread has been of great help to me. my playing has made a massive leap in improvements since you shared this stuff with us. thanks.
Ace

Agreed Sir Ace!

Here's your new siggy J ... ;)

DLR Bridge
07-13-2015, 09:58 AM
Excellent thread. Never saw this one before. Great Thrills posts, too.

Romeo Delight
07-30-2015, 10:43 PM
Hey...check out my new Japanese Kramer...

What pickups should I put in? It sounds good but feeds back too much.

It is so mint, I can't believe it. $250 all in.

Romeo Delight
07-31-2015, 03:07 PM
I did just order a Seymour Duncan SH4 JB for the bridge...what about the other two? Quarter pounder or these:

http://www.seymourduncan.com/products/electric/stratocaster/high-output/jb_jr_sjbj1/

Thanks

jhale667
08-15-2015, 06:32 AM
I did just order a Seymour Duncan SH4 JB for the bridge...what about the other two? Quarter pounder or these:

http://www.seymourduncan.com/products/electric/stratocaster/high-output/jb_jr_sjbj1/

Thanks


You can't really go wrong with the Quarter Pounds. Very beefy, but they're true single coils and thus will be a bit noisy. The JB (and the Jr) is recommended for the bridge position. There's no law, however, that says you can't use a bridge pickup in the neck position. I'd recommend, if you get the JB Jr. try it in the neck, would probably sound better than it may in the middle position.

If you want something by Duncan for the neck and middle that's noise-cancelling but still sounds like a single coil (dummy coil is nowhere in the audio signal path), I've had good luck with the STK-S6 in the neck, and the STK-S4 in the middle. :baaa:



:guitar:

Romeo Delight
08-16-2015, 11:59 AM
Thanks Jay. I have no idea how this will sound, but I ordered the following last week:


Seymour DuncanSTK-S10 YJM Fury Stack Neck Pickup White

Seymour DuncanSSL-5 RW/RP Custom Staggered Single Coil Middle Pickup White

ace diamond
01-02-2016, 02:51 PM
nice job