Focus On The Family Takes A Stand On "Christmas" [Archive]

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Kristy

12-20-2009, 02:43 PM

By Electa Draper The Denver Post

Evangelical Christians are rating retailers naughty or nice. It's "Merry Christmas," not "Happy Holidays," that opens hearts and wallets, according to Christian media giant Focus on the Family, which is in the third year of its own "Stand for Christmas" campaign. Focus says the reason for the season — the birth of Jesus — should be reflected in store displays and found on the lips of sales clerks.

Yet retailers and many shoppers say attempts to include everyone and offend no one might be more in keeping with the spirit — if not the letter — of Christmas.

The Colorado Springs-based organization can't test the pitch of all retailers everywhere, so this year it asked shoppers across the country to weigh in on the way they perceive retailers' treatment of Christmas.

The 2009 StandforChristmas.com site, launched Nov. 23, had 125,000 hits by mid-December.

Focus said it is hosting the ratings site because the ministry had noticed in recent years a misguided attempt by retailers to be more inclusive by dropping references to "Christmas" from stores, catalogs and online shopping sites, Focus cultural analyst Carrie Gordon Earll said.

"The vast majority of people who are buying gifts in December are buying Christmas gifts," Earll said. "We're not asking retailers to stop saying 'Happy Hanukkah.' We're just saying, don't exclude Christmas. It's part of the American fiber."

In a message to Focus followers Friday afternoon, Earll offered a more aggressive take on the issue: "This is an opportunity for people who love Jesus Christ, who want to celebrate his birth, to have a voice in the culture."

By the time there were seven shopping days left, consumers reporting to Focus had rated outdoor outfitters Bass Pro Shops and Cabela's the most "Christmas friendly," with 98 percent and 95 percent positive ratings, respectively.

Other "Christmas friendly" retailers were Land's End, L.L. Bean, Dillard's, Nordstrom, Kmart, Wal-Mart, Target and Sears.

"A multicultural country"

However, Mike Gatti, executive director of the National Retail Federation, said he observed that retailers already were making an effort this year not to meld all the holidays into one.

"Retailers are saying, 'Gee, maybe we don't need to homogenize the holidays,' " Gatti said. "When it's appropriate, retailers are trying to recognize the different traditions.

"Everybody realizes we're a multicultural country. What everybody is trying to do is be respectful of everybody's religion," he said.

Gatti said he wasn't familiar with the Focus campaign but welcomed consumer reaction from any quarter.

A 2009 survey by the Retail Advertising and Marketing Association, conducted by BIGresearch, found that shoppers' favorite holiday TV commercials were from Wal-Mart and Target. They also rated well with the evangelicals.

Target tugs at the tender — and hilarious — moments of holiday giving, with "chestnuts roasting on an open fire" as its tag line. Wal-Mart's Christmas campaign includes images of a son wishing for snow for his father deployed to Iraq.

Focus participants rated as "offensive" clothiers such as the Gap (82 percent), Banana Republic (75 percent) and Old Navy (59 percent).

However, the retailer survey, which polled 9,929 consumers Dec. 1-9, with a margin of error of plus or minus 1 percentage point, found that Gap and Old Navy television holiday ads scored high with the general shopping population, which ranked them as their fourth- and sixth-favorite commercials, respectively.

The three related companies issued a joint statement defending their seasonal marketing as appropriate for a global retailer respectful of all traditions:

"Contrary to previous reports, . . . our seasonal marketing uses the word Christmas, but we do not use it exclusively."

Several Gap commercials say: "Go Christmas. Go Hanukkah. Go Kwanzaa." Old Navy's mannequin crew exchanges gift ideas in that store's campaign.

And electronics giant Best Buy, rated "offensive" by 78 percent of Christian shoppers participating on the Focus site, had the country's third- favorite ad, according to the retailers survey. Best Buy's ads feature a choir of store employees caroling sales pitches to their customers.

Rated as mostly "Christmas negligent" by Focus participants were stores such as housewares purveyor Crate and Barrel and Toys 'R' Us.

Reasons cited for a retailer seeming "offensive" included use of "Happy Holidays" without mention of Christmas. The evidence offered for "Christmas friendly" included things such as Wal-Mart's sign for "Christmas Trees" rather than holiday trees, as well as the playing of Christmas music.

Focus' idea is not to boycott retailers but to build good relationships with them, Earll said.

Christmas sales can make or break retailers. With three out of every four Americans identifying themselves as Christians, ignoring Christmas as a religious holiday makes no sense, Earll said. Even the U.S. House of Representatives acknowledges Christmas not as a winter festival but for its "international religious and historical significance," she said.

At a Target in northwest Denver last week, most shoppers were less ideologically inclined.

"I'm a Christian, but I'm not the kind of Christian who needs to push it on others," said Doreen Kastner. "My beliefs are my own."

Another shopper, Michelle Cree, said that she thinks "it's just nicer and more Christian" to make greetings and decorations as inclusive as possible.

However, Jason Dunn said it bothers him that the word "Christmas" is usually nowhere in sight.

"If you strip Christ from Christmas, what have you got, really?" he asked.

"I say 'Merry Christmas,' and I like to be greeted that way," said Jane Bedin, "but the retailers don't really have a choice but to play it safe. They need to appeal to a wider part of the population than I need to. It doesn't bother me."

Shopping motivations vary

In a more scientific Focus on the Family survey of 1,000 Americans, conducted by Wilson Research Strategies in March, 60 percent of Americans favored the use of "Merry Christmas" over "Happy Holidays." And 44 percent said they would more likely purchase from a retailer that uses "Merry Christmas" in advertising.

Promoting the holiday by name is just good business, Focus says.

However, the retailers' survey found that about 17 percent were highly motivated to shop at retailers whose ads they liked.

Still, almost 33 percent said an appealing ad had no impact on shopping habits.

"When it comes to specific holiday advertisements," the retailer survey said, "coupons are king, with almost 45 percent saying the opportunity to save a few bucks is what most influences them to shop at a particular store."

Kristy

12-20-2009, 02:46 PM

"Focus says the reason for the season — the birth of Jesus — should be reflected in store displays and found on the lips of sales clerks."

Not that Christmas was stolen from a pagan belief of the celebration of the Winter Solstice or anything. Or that there is no way in hell Jesus was ever a Capricorn.

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sadaist

12-20-2009, 03:08 PM

Not that Christmas was stolen from a pagan belief of the celebration of the Winter Solstice or anything. Or that there is no way in [i]hell Jesus was ever a Capricorn.

Doesn't really matter where the holiday & tradition came from. If you are going to celebrate it, call it what it is. If you don't want to celebrate it, get your ass back to work, school, whatever. There are a lot of holidays I don't celebrate. And I don't go around attempting to change what they call it so that I can.

I'm nearly certain that people who are out protesting the use of the word Christmas, didn't protest the day off from work for it.

And sometimes, someone is just going to be offended by something. That's just the way it is...and that's ok. It's perfectly fine if some people get offended from time to time. That's just life. We have become a society where as soon as one person is offended by something, there is a huge uproar to change it.

Merry Christmas. :xmastree:

FORD

12-20-2009, 03:09 PM

Kristy

12-20-2009, 03:25 PM

Doesn't really matter where the holiday & tradition came from. If you are going to celebrate it, call it what it is. If you don't want to celebrate it, get your ass back to work, school, whatever. There are a lot of holidays I don't celebrate. And I don't go around attempting to change what they call it so that I can.

Actually, it does. Christmas is about the symbolic birth of Christ and not the historical one. Funny how you use the word "celebrate" as if what is required to do so is a (certain) religion's approval and distortion for what was a winter festival many years prior. If Christians truly celebrated Christmas they be whacked out on hallucinogenics (did you know the red and green colors of Christmas come from a certain psychedelic mushroom?) and massive amounts of alcohol and sex instead a baby in a manger and the veiled Virgin Birth.

And as for Focus thinking they have some sort of grip on retailers and their shoppers, they couldn't be any more wrong. Draper said it bast at the end of the article "When it comes to specific holiday advertisements," the retailer survey said, "coupons are king, with almost 45 percent saying the opportunity to save a few bucks is what most influences them to shop at a particular store."

Shoppers gravitate to the deals and savings and NOT by what they hear from a seasonal clerk; retailers gravitate to profits and selling this year's merchandise for tax purposes. Christmas has been and always will be about money in the retail world. So thank you, I will enjoy the day off. Merry Christmas to you.

standin

12-20-2009, 03:51 PM

:biggrin:
I don't care what ya call it. Gimme junk I do need, junk I don't need, and cash!
http://www.cartoonstock.com/lowres/jfa0215l.jpg

FORD

12-20-2009, 03:58 PM

If Christians truly celebrated Christmas they be whacked out on hallucinogenics (did you know the red and green colors of Christmas come from a certain psychedelic mushroom?)

Actually, it's amanita muscaria which has the red & white colors of a candy cane.......

http://bonsaisouth.com.au/cms3/images/fbfiles/images/amanita_muscaria_red.jpg

...but they do often grow under trees, which is where the green comes in.

And here's the story of how this 'shroom became associated with Christmas.....

The psychedelic secrets of Santa Claus
By Dana Larsen - Thursday, December 18 2003
Tags:

Modern Christmas traditions are based on ancient mushroom-using shamans.

Although most people see Christmas as a Christian holiday, most of the symbols and icons we associate with Christmas celebrations are actually derived from the shamanistic traditions of the tribal peoples of pre-Christian Northern Europe.
The sacred mushroom of these people was the red and white amanita muscaria mushroom, also known as "fly agaric." These mushrooms are now commonly seen in books of fairy tales, and are usually associated with magic and fairies. This is because they contain potent hallucinogenic compounds, and were used by ancient peoples for insight and transcendental experiences.

Most of the major elements of the modern Christmas celebration, such as Santa Claus, Christmas trees, magical reindeer and the giving of gifts, are originally based upon the traditions surrounding the harvest and consumption of these most sacred mushrooms.

The world tree

These ancient peoples, including the Lapps of modern-day Finland, and the Koyak tribes of the central Russian steppes, believed in the idea of a World Tree. The World Tree was seen as a kind of cosmic axis, onto which the planes of the universe are fixed. The roots of the World Tree stretch down into the underworld, its trunk is the "middle earth" of everyday existence, and its branches reach upwards into the heavenly realm.

The amanita muscaria mushrooms grow only under certain types of trees, mostly firs and evergreens. The mushroom caps are the fruit of the larger mycelium beneath the soil which exists in a symbiotic relationship with the roots of the tree. To ancient people, these mushrooms were literally "the fruit of the tree."
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The North Star was also considered sacred, since all other stars in the sky revolved around its fixed point. They associated this "Pole Star" with the World Tree and the central axis of the universe. The top of the World Tree touched the North Star, and the spirit of the shaman would climb the metaphorical tree, thereby passing into the realm of the gods. This is the true meaning of the star on top of the modern Christmas tree, and also the reason that the super-shaman Santa makes his home at the North Pole.

Ancient peoples were amazed at how these magical mushrooms sprang from the earth without any visible seed. They considered this "virgin birth" to have been the result of the morning dew, which was seen as the semen of the deity. The silver tinsel we drape onto our modern Christmas tree represents this divine fluid.

Reindeer games

The active ingredients of the amanita mushrooms are not metabolized by the body, and so they remain active in the urine. In fact, it is safer to drink the urine of one who has consumed the mushrooms than to eat the mushrooms directly, as many of the toxic compounds are processed and eliminated on the first pass through the body.

It was common practice among ancient people to recycle the potent effects of the mushroom by drinking each other's urine. The amanita's ingredients can remain potent even after six passes through the human body. Some scholars argue that this is the origin of the phrase "to get pissed," as this urine-drinking activity preceded alcohol by thousands of years.

Reindeer were the sacred animals of these semi-nomadic people, as the reindeer provided food, shelter, clothing and other necessities. Reindeer are also fond of eating the amanita mushrooms; they will seek them out, then prance about while under their influence. Often the urine of tripped-out reindeer would be consumed for its psychedelic effects.

This effect goes the other way too, as reindeer also enjoy the urine of a human, especially one who has consumed the mushrooms. In fact, reindeer will seek out human urine to drink, and some tribesmen carry sealskin containers of their own collected piss, which they use to attract stray reindeer back into the herd.

The effects of the amanita mushroom usually include sensations of size distortion and flying. The feeling of flying could account for the legends of flying reindeer, and legends of shamanic journeys included stories of winged reindeer, transporting their riders up to the highest branches of the World Tree.

Santa Claus, super shaman

Although the modern image of Santa Claus was created at least in part by the advertising department of Coca-Cola, in truth his appearance, clothing, mannerisms and companions all mark him as the reincarnation of these ancient mushroom-gathering shamans.

One of the side effects of eating amanita mushrooms is that the skin and facial features take on a flushed, ruddy glow. This is why Santa is always shown with glowing red cheeks and nose. Even Santa's jolly "Ho, ho, ho!" is the euphoric laugh of one who has indulged in the magic fungus.

Santa also dresses like a mushroom gatherer. When it was time to go out and harvest the magical mushrooms, the ancient shamans would dress much like Santa, wearing red and white fur-trimmed coats and long black boots.

These peoples lived in dwellings made of birch and reindeer hide, called "yurts." Somewhat similar to a teepee, the yurt's central smokehole is often also used as an entrance. After gathering the mushrooms from under the sacred trees where they appeared, the shamans would fill their sacks and return home. Climbing down the chimney-entrances, they would share out the mushroom's gifts with those within.

The amanita mushroom needs to be dried before being consumed; the drying process reduces the mushroom's toxicity while increasing its potency. The shaman would guide the group in stringing the mushrooms and hanging them around the hearth-fire to dry. This tradition is echoed in the modern stringing of popcorn and other items.

The psychedelic journeys taken under the influence of the amanita were also symbolized by a stick reaching up through the smokehole in the top of the yurt. The smokehole was the portal where the spirit of the shaman exited the physical plane.

Santa's famous magical journey, where his sleigh takes him around the whole planet in a single night, is developed from the "heavenly chariot," used by the gods from whom Santa and other shamanic figures are descended. The chariot of Odin, Thor and even the Egyptian god Osiris is now known as the Big Dipper, which circles around the North Star in a 24-hour period.

In different versions of the ancient story, the chariot was pulled by reindeer or horses. As the animals grow exhausted, their mingled spit and blood falls to the ground, forming the amanita mushrooms.

St Nicholas and Old Nick

Saint Nicholas is a legendary figure who supposedly lived during the fourth Century. His cult spread quickly and Nicholas became the patron saint of many varied groups, including judges, pawnbrokers, criminals, merchants, sailors, bakers, travelers, the poor, and children.

Most religious historians agree that St Nicholas did not actually exist as a real person, and was instead a Christianized version of earlier Pagan gods. Nicholas' legends were mainly created out of stories about the Teutonic god called Hold Nickar, known as Poseidon to the Greeks. This powerful sea god was known to gallop through the sky during the winter solstice, granting boons to his worshippers below.

When the Catholic Church created the character of St Nicholas, they took his name from "Nickar" and gave him Poseidon's title of "the Sailor." There are thousands of churches named in St Nicholas' honor, most of which were converted from temples to Poseidon and Hold Nickar. (As the ancient pagan deities were demonized by the Christian church, Hold Nickar's name also became associated with Satan, known as "Old Nick!")

Local traditions were incorporated into the new Christian holidays to make them more acceptable to the new converts. To these early Christians, Saint Nicholas became a sort of "super-shaman" who was overlaid upon their own shamanic cultural practices. Many images of Saint Nicholas from these early times show him wearing red and white, or standing in front of a red background with white spots, the design of the amanita mushroom.

St Nicholas also adopted some of the qualities of the legendary "Grandmother Befana" from Italy, who filled children's stockings with gifts. Her shrine at Bari, Italy, became a shrine to St Nicholas.

Modern world, ancient traditions

Some psychologists have discussed the "cognitive dissonance" which occurs when children are encouraged to believe in the literal existence of Santa Claus, only to have their parents' lie revealed when they are older. By so deceiving our children we rob them of a richer heritage, for the actual origin of these ancient rituals is rooted deep in our history and our collective unconscious. By better understanding the truths within these popular celebrations, we can better understand the modern world, and our place in it.

Many people in the modern world have rejected Christmas as being too commercial, claiming that this ritual of giving is actually a celebration of materialism and greed. Yet the true spirit of this winter festival lies not in the exchange of plastic toys, but in celebrating a gift from the earth: the fruiting top of a magical mushroom, and the revelatory experiences it can provide.

Instead of perpetuating outdated and confusing holiday myths, it might be more fulfilling to return to the original source of these seasonal celebrations. How about getting back to basics and enjoying some magical mushrooms with your loved ones this solstice? What better gift can a family share than a little piece of love and enlightenment?

The psychedelic secrets of Santa Claus | Cannabis Culture Magazine (http://www.cannabisculture.com/articles/3136.html)

ULTRAMAN VH

12-21-2009, 08:52 AM

bueno bob

12-21-2009, 09:00 AM

"Focus says the reason for the season — the birth of Jesus — "

Kristie is right. You should pretty much disregard the rest of that drivel based on that one sentence ALONE.

If you can't argue something from a factual basis, you shouldn't fucking argue it period.

bueno bob

12-21-2009, 09:01 AM

You know Kristy, it is one day out of the year, leave the Christians and their holiday alone. Why don't you really display how tough you are and post some anti Muslim rhetoric. I would not recommend it though, many have been threatened or killed for such actions. Oh and Merry Christmas!

It's NOT the Christians holiday.

They fucking STOLE it.

Much as they steal everything else.

And shut up with the "You hate Christians so you love Muslims!" bullshit, it's so old and tired. Anybody who hates Christianity probably hates Islam even more.

ULTRAMAN VH

12-21-2009, 09:11 AM

bueno bob

12-21-2009, 09:16 AM

WTF are you talking about!

Common sense.

I thought I clearly stated that its always easy to attack Christmas but no one has the balls to attack MUSLIMS and the Koran.

You can clearly state it all you want. Doesn't make it true, or even factual.

If you were going hunting for food, would you go after a deer or a bear. Kristi found it much easier to go after the deer, I would expect nothing less.

Umm....? :umm:

bueno bob

12-21-2009, 09:17 AM

Besides, Christians do plenty of attacking on Islam all their own...hell, they do half of the work for everybody else. Gotta give them credit there.

Nickdfresh

12-21-2009, 09:58 AM

Nevermind...

thome

12-21-2009, 11:30 AM

People love to have a purpose...even if it is assinine

Like telling someone what christmas is supposed to be.

So to Commie's... and any other ie or sometimes why.

No one wants to invent christmas, it just happened from a common love that is shared, they just want to destroy what already is, ...why..? because they are narrow minded desperate grown up arested developement,children in need of and spanking.

Much like Muslims "they" want to take away from what makes others, feel joy.

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It will all be over in a few days and then the anti-ie's of the world can breath a sigh of relief with nothing in the sock, that isn't on the mantle. In thier lonely plastic fantastic celophane world.

and before you get all over my ass.... Christmas is for children, I know exactly why it is and what it stands for.... it's you fukking goddamn adults that get all up inside your own goddamn asses and shoot your loud mouthed.... your sh!t all over no-one, but the kiddies.

Fukk You all very much and Little Tiny Tim, thanks you to. For the kindness at this time of year.

This post is directed at no-one in perticular at this sight, just thome against every other mother fukker in the whole goddamn world.

Kristy

12-21-2009, 02:06 PM

WTF are you talking about! I thought I clearly stated that its always easy to attack Christmas but no one has the balls to attack MUSLIMS and the Koran. If you were going hunting for food, would you go after a deer or a bear. Kristi found it much easier to go after the deer, I would expect nothing less.

No, what in the fuck are you talking about? Where did I "attack" Christmas? My original point was, if anybody is attacking Christmas it's the douche nozzles at Focus On The Family resorting to child-like bullying tactics calling out retailers as being "offensive" if they don't say Merry Fucking Christmas" to a store patron who just happens to be a Christian. Go check out there website and see for yourself - nothing but a bunch of busy-bodies with too much time on their hands sighting "Christmas-negligence" who sound an awful like you:

"As a Christain and a freedom loving American patriot I was extremely offended by Best Buy choosing to with the Muliums a happy holiday and have yet made any attempt of wishing the Christians a Merry Christmas in their ad campain which I am checking weekly. I went into the store and shared my opinion as well as with their 1-800 number. They lost my business and I have encourage all my family and friends to do the the same. Merry Christmas to you all!"

Hmmm...can't even spell his/her own religion right, much less the religion he/she denounces. And when exactly did Swindle Buy go Muslim? Call me crazy but I did not see one female store clerk wearing a Burka. :umm: go figure.

And it gets even more whacky:

"The company has informed all American Eagle Employees not to say, "Merry Christmas" to any customer in fear of making the American Eagle customer uncomfortable. Although, every single U.S. dollar in the American Eagle cash drawer says, "In God We Trust" on back with the "Star of David" above the Eagle to the "right side" symbolizing Jesus birth. Happy Birthday Jesus!"

So not only do Christians have no clue about the history of money, they hardly know the roots of the "holiday" itself. Muslims seem to know the roots of Islam, but Christmas being forged on a pagan ritual...oooh, can't have that, can we? Again, who did I attack here? Their idiocy? Guilty as charged. Must be nice to live in such a myopic world, huh? A world where everybody admires a nativity scene on a courthouse lawn, or police station, or school, but scorns a Menorah, Buddhist figure or even a crescent moon. Let's just make Christmas totally inclusive, shall we? Will that get you to shut the fuck up and stop badgering retailers?

Focus On The Family doesn't give a shit about Christmas as they do being a bunch of bored gadflys stirring up shit in order to keep themselves relevant in shifting economic times when they need money to continue their propaganda spree. The one going "after the deer" is you by giving unnecessary grief to retail employees, calling worthless 1-800 numbers and spewing out such sheer ignorance:

"I have always shopped at your stores but this year I intentionally did not purchase anything from you company. I appreciate that not everyone loves Christ and wants to embrace His principles but I find it offensive that you would go out or your way to avoid the Holiday that celebrates the Christian Heritage of our nation. I am praying for your leadership in this company. Merry Christmas."

Um, this country was founded on Deist principals and NOT Christian for our forefathers did not want to recreate what they ran from which was religious zealotry and intolerance. I LOVE Christmas, Ultraman. In fact, I love it so much that I will shop at these stores Focus On The Family detest (except of course, The GAP and their satellite stores which is more of a third-world slave labor/sweat shop issue but that's a different story) and will have no trouble saying "Merry Christmas" to the seasonal clerk and, at the same time, not feel "offended" if they don't say it back. I have better things in life to do.

Merry Christmas.

Hardrock69

12-21-2009, 02:49 PM

Focus On The Family is full of just as many drug-abusing, alcoholic, wife-beating, perverts as any other Christian organization.

I think Happy Holidays is an appropriate greeting.

If some store or company or organization wants to use that term, more power to them, as they are more historically correct than Christians, due to the fact Christmas is not a Christian holiday (much as they WISH it were).

The Christians can go on calling it Christmas, etc. if they want. Nobody is telling them they cannot. If they work for some company that adopts "Happy Holidays" as the "official" holiday greeting of that company, they can go work somewhere else if they don't like it.

Religion has no place in the workplace. If my boss comes up to me and starts telling me I am going to Hell if I don't believe in Jebus, I am going to tell him to go fuck himself!

FORD

12-21-2009, 03:00 PM

Dobson is one sick son of a bitch. He advocates not only beating children but even dogs too. In one of his books he describes how he beat a small dog into "submission" to him and "the Lord".

He also says that the best way to ensure your son turns out heterosexual is to take him into the shower with you and show him how big your cock is.

Uh, what?

"See this, son? It's called a dick. And if you're ever in a shower looking at one, that means you're an evil sodomite and God will send you to Hell. Except for right now, of course. So stare at my cock and tell yourself, I WILL NOT BE GAY! I WILL NOT BE GAY!. Oops, I dropped the soap, can you bend over and get that for me? "

Hey... maybe that explains it? GAyR is Dobson's kid!

jhale667

12-21-2009, 04:01 PM

This is why I'm always calling for more liberal use of Tasers....let's start by zapping every member of "Focus on the Family"....geez, they need a hobby that doesn't involve jamming their superstition down everyone else's throat..."Happy Holidays" is all inclusive, and MEANT to be inoffensive! Not good enough for zealots R' us, though...:mad:

GO-SPURS-GO

12-21-2009, 04:28 PM

Dobson is one sick son of a bitch. He advocates not only beating children but even dogs too. In one of his books he describes how he beat a small dog into "submission" to him and "the Lord".

He also says that the best way to ensure your son turns out heterosexual is to take him into the shower with you and show him how big your cock is.

He's probably not your neighbor, but read number nine anyways.
http://10commandments.biz/biz/ten_commandments_list.pdf

Sometimes I think your emotions get the best of you! Just saying.. :beers8:

kwame k

12-21-2009, 04:46 PM

Well all I have to say is......Happy Winter Solstice!

The days get longer from here on out.

Nickdfresh

12-21-2009, 05:01 PM

Well all I have to say is......Happy Winter Solstice!

The days get longer from here on out.

That's right, I forgot about that! Get by robes and to the ceremony!

kwame k

12-21-2009, 05:23 PM

That's right, I forgot about that! Get by robes and to the ceremony!

Your turn to bring the Vestal Virgins this year :beers8:

Nitro Express

12-21-2009, 05:41 PM

I really don't give a ratt's ass of people wish me Happy Holidays or Merry Christmas. I was in San Fransisco a few years ago around Christmas time and a lot of people there get pissed if you wish them Merry Christmas which I thought was funny. I'm nice to them and they get pissed. We are getting too tight about it. It never was about Jesus in the first place. It was a winter solstice celebration that the Roman Catholic church Jesusfied. To me it's all about having some fun, being charitable, reflecting on the positive, and just having a good time. If you let the greedy retailers spoil it it's your fault for letting them do so. Christmas can be whatever you want it to be.

Nitro Express

12-21-2009, 05:53 PM

:biggrin:
I don't care what ya call it. Gimme junk I do need, junk I don't need, and cash!
http://www.cartoonstock.com/lowres/jfa0215l.jpg

We decided to make the cheesiest, tacky christmas tree we could this year. It has those horrible plastic icicles and topless mermaids. It even has santa riding a sea turtle in swim trunks.

Nitro Express

12-21-2009, 05:56 PM

Well all I have to say is......Happy Winter Solstice!

The days get longer from here on out.

What's cool is on December 21 the sun at noon sits exactly at the bottom of our upper balcony when you look out the window. My house is like fucking stonehenge. LOL!

kwame k

12-21-2009, 06:36 PM

What's cool is on December 21 the sun at noon sits exactly at the bottom of our upper balcony when you look out the window. My house is like fucking stonehenge. LOL!

Sounds cool, dude. I take it there's plenty of "spirits" being consumed and some frolicking with the opposite sex;)

ELVIS

12-21-2009, 07:55 PM

Va Beach VH Fan

12-21-2009, 11:09 PM

If you can't argue something from a factual basis, you shouldn't fucking argue it period.

In that case, we can disregard any religious conversations as the ridiculous bullshit that it all is and just trade presents on the 25th, sounds good to me....

thome

12-22-2009, 12:23 AM

In that case, we can disregard any religious conversations as the ridiculous bullshit that it all is and just trade presents on the 25th, sounds good to me....

Wha Wha Wha Whazaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Freek Show!

standin

12-22-2009, 03:26 AM

You know Kristy, it is one day out of the year, leave the Christians and their holiday alone. Why don't you really display how tough you are and post some anti Muslim rhetoric. I would not recommend it though, many have been threatened or killed for such actions. Oh and Merry Christmas!

actually, when hunting for food, you hunt the food you prefer to eat, even when hunting for substance.
Your silliness is silly. Christmas was not "your" holiday. The same as most holidays are adapted. The only holiday Jesus partook in was the passover. He did that once a year. And that was the only holiday Jesus "endorsed." He even adapted that holiday.

Nitro Express

12-22-2009, 04:28 AM

Nitro Express

12-22-2009, 04:36 AM

The pilgrims, Williamsburg, Ronoake all get mixed up. Basically Europeans came here for various reasons. Lief Erikson came here 1,000 years ago.

Those have NOTHING to do with The United States. This country is about the individual and their God given right to be an individual and persue their happiness. God as being the creator and the individual having the right to believe what that means in their own way. If you read what Jefferson penned it has nothing to do with Christianity but The Individual and the freedom for them to persue happiness on their terms and not an organized body.

Nickdfresh

12-22-2009, 12:06 PM

Your turn to bring the Vestal Virgins this year :beers8:

In this town? Good luck, brotha...:biggrin:

Nickdfresh

12-22-2009, 12:08 PM

All of this "Attack on Christmas" shit has long ago been debunked as nothing more than pandering to the "flock" (of sheep) for money as it is little more than a fund raising campaign under the premise of "give, cause we're under siege!!"

Whores...

kwame k

12-22-2009, 12:10 PM

In this town? Good luck, brotha...:biggrin:

Same problem I had last year;)

Susie Q

12-22-2009, 12:25 PM

Hardrock69

12-22-2009, 01:10 PM

Your turn to bring the Vestal Virgins this year :beers8:

Sounds like THE WAY to celebrate the end of the year! :D

Hardrock69

12-22-2009, 01:11 PM

alexpgrimes

12-22-2009, 01:14 PM

jesus was born in july. they changed the date to coinside with the pagon winter sostice.

FORD

12-22-2009, 01:26 PM

How many who post here celebrate Christmas by going to midnight mass, or going to their local churches? The whole "Reason for the Season" of Baby Jesus. How many here who have children discuss the story of the three wisemen, etc.? To me Christmas was lost many, many, many years ago when it became all commercialism.

Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, Happy Kwame er...Kwanza, Happy Hanukkah, and a blessed new year.

I always wanted to do the Midnight Mass thing just once, even though I'm not Catholic. Last time I was in Tucson for Christmas I tried to talk my family into going to the San Xavier mission, which is this really cool and really old church on the south end of town. Problem is I was on the north end of town and didn't have my own wheels, so I couldn't make it out there.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a228/kaneui/SanXavierMission2008.jpg

I did do a Christmas Eve church thing a few years back, but when the church had the exact same service three years in a row, I got bored with that. Obviously you only have one story to work with, but you can at least change up the presentation a little.

kwame k

12-22-2009, 02:06 PM

jhale667

12-22-2009, 03:22 PM

I still do Midnight Mass and stop by the Church every so often. There's something comforting about getting into the rhythm of a Catholic Mass. Since I was never raped by a Priest or beaten the shit out of by a Nun, I still have fond memories of The True Faith.

I like going occasionally when services aren't being conducted, agree there's something comforting about just sitting in the place...the joke always was Xmas midnight mass was when the "fair-weather" Catholics came out...:hee:

Never had any bad experiences with Priests (was an altar boy for a few years as I mentioned) but yeah, we used to get the shit kicked out of us by the nuns at my parochial school...it was like they'd sent them to combat training or some shit...they were just brutal, and like Ninjas! :eek:

GO-SPURS-GO

12-22-2009, 03:25 PM

it was like they'd sent them to combat training or some shit...they were just brutal, and like Ninjas! :eek:

:biggrin:

standin

12-22-2009, 05:52 PM

I lived in the middle east for awhile and Islam is as fucked up as christianity is. In Iran they have a muslim sect that worships Muhammed's brother. Another thing the muslims like to do is call other muslims "inovators" and there is this huge us vs them over who interprets the law in the koran correctly. They are just as nuts. The average muslim over there wants to make a living, get laid, and enjoy some of the good things in life just like 99% of the rest of the world's population does.

Ehh. Then you got the Mormon sect. And let us not forget the Jim Jones. And that seems to be a running theme. Poison the whole community to save "us" from "them"

I think people want more than just to get laid. I thing people want to be secure in there beings.
""
Another thing the Christians like to do is call other Christians "innovators" and there is this huge us vs them over who interprets the the Bible correctly.
""

People have thee right to be fundie to an extent. I value fundies Christian, Jew, and Muslim, alike. Ehh and Hindu. It is not easy to live pois.

But just like people can become unhealthy with food, a people can become unhealthy with pois and with vice.

Many upon many use anything within grasp to seek admiration of a rightness they perceive. The "you like me because you agree with me" mentality and that mentality is even in the secular section.

The means justifies the ends mentality, which is so prevalent, fosters compliances in corruption. The "he is one of ours, his corruption is OK because he is working for the "good." When in no way can corruption do anything but fester more corruption. You may be able to turn the other cheek, but one should not turn a blind eye.

Is what Christmas has become healthy? I do not know. Do I like the Spiritual side, of course I do. Do I like the cards and gifts, of course I do.

Would it be an incredible thing if the wordily and worldly effects only honored the wonder, miracles, amazements, and awe-inspiring that are God's with reverence. Of course, it would.

Do I wish people would not be compelled to lie, cheat and steal during a certain time of year. Of course I do. But in reality, it happens all times of year just as much. When ratio with the same triangle of opportunity, motive and perceived need.

ELVIS

12-22-2009, 05:54 PM

I lived in the middle east for awhile and Islam is as fucked up as christianity is.

Oh my God...

Kristy

12-22-2009, 06:02 PM

I always wanted to do the Midnight Mass thing just once, even though I'm not Catholic.

Ooooh, an outsider.

Probably be more enjoyable for a non-Catholic attending Midnight Mass then one raised in the faith (I'd rather watch paint dry in a dentist office, myself than go to Midnight Mass). The whole deal is pretty much the biggest show next to Easter in terms of Catholic fanfare: choirs, candles, cruddy old nuns praying, a lot of Catholic ritualistic regalia so if you're kind of into that. :biggrin:

Most I know go it show up either drunk or stoned, or both. Not that I would know anything about that myself. :angel10:

Kristy

12-22-2009, 06:14 PM

I like going occasionally when services aren't being conducted, agree there's something comforting about just sitting in the place...

Maybe you were getting contact high? You can usually spot the fair-weather type in terms of refusal of Communion so I'm easy to spot out in that crowd.

I'm undecided myself if I'll attend this year but don't let any of my personal cynicism discourage you or others from doing so. Have a wonderful Christmas, jhale.

jhale667

12-22-2009, 10:13 PM

Maybe you were getting contact high?

Entirely possible, I guess... ;)

I'm undecided myself if I'll attend this year but don't let any of my personal cynicism discourage you or others from doing so. Have a wonderful Christmas, jhale.

You have a wonderful Christmas as well. Probably not going this year, but wondered, does watching it live on cable count? :D

kwame k

12-23-2009, 12:16 AM

Most I know go it show up either drunk or stoned, or both. Not that I would know anything about that myself. :angel10:

How else would you go to Midnight Mass?

Doesn't every good Catholic do that?

ULTRAMAN VH

12-23-2009, 05:22 AM

I like going occasionally when services aren't being conducted, agree there's something comforting about just sitting in the place...the joke always was Xmas midnight mass was when the "fair-weather" Catholics came out...:hee:

Never had any bad experiences with Priests (was an altar boy for a few years as I mentioned) but yeah, we used to get the shit kicked out of us by the nuns at my parochial school...it was like they'd sent them to combat training or some shit...they were just brutal, and like Ninjas! :eek:

And today you are a law abiding, taxpaying citizen and the Prez of Mufferica. You should be proud of the discipline they instilled in you, ya f##king hippy.;)

hideyoursheep

12-23-2009, 06:22 AM

Ya know what I think is funny?

Every year, in some long forgotten sliver of the country, some christian fanatic will go batshit whenever some cashier, in an effort to include all religions, since ther is more than 1 being celebrated this time of year, says "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas". That's when the FNC goes into overdrive with the "War On Christmas" bullshit.

Last I checked, christians had it pretty good in this country. Why all the complaining? When was the last time any of them have been fed to a lion?

Enough already.

jhale667

12-23-2009, 11:36 AM

And today you are a law abiding, taxpaying citizen and the Prez of Mufferica. You should be proud of the discipline they instilled in you, ya f##king hippy.;)

:lmao:

bueno bob

12-26-2009, 07:34 PM

jesus was born in july. they changed the date to coinside with the pagon winter sostice.

That's if he was born at all. It's more than remotely possible that Jesus was a church/government created character representing several prophets who were competing at that time in history.

Hardrock69

12-27-2009, 02:38 AM

It would be fun to attend a Midnight Christmas Eve Mass on acid.

Call it a CathMidMassid. :D

I don't do that shit any more, so I can only imagine what it would be like.

Nitro Express

01-02-2010, 02:55 AM

Ooooh, an outsider.

Probably be more enjoyable for a non-Catholic attending Midnight Mass then one raised in the faith (I'd rather watch paint dry in a dentist office, myself than go to Midnight Mass). The whole deal is pretty much the biggest show next to Easter in terms of Catholic fanfare: choirs, candles, cruddy old nuns praying, a lot of Catholic ritualistic regalia so if you're kind of into that. :biggrin:

Most I know go it show up either drunk or stoned, or both. Not that I would know anything about that myself. :angel10:

I had a devout Catholic girlfriend and I was used to sitting by the fire on Christmas Eve listening to Bing Crosby after eating a wonderful turkey dinner. Her family was like "hurry up! We need to get to mass! We are going to be late and we need to get going if we are going to get in!" All that fuss to be bored. I would rather drag on the bong and watch the pope give mass at St. Peter's on TV.

Nitro Express

01-02-2010, 02:57 AM

It would be fun to attend a Midnight Christmas Eve Mass on acid.

Call it a CathMidMassid. :D

I don't do that shit any more, so I can only imagine what it would be like.

You might put your whole wallet in the donation plate and that would make father very happy.

Nitro Express

01-02-2010, 02:59 AM

As soon as anyone tells me I have to jump through their hoops and run on their treadmill to be saved (whatever than means) I smell ponzi scheme and tell them to get fucked.