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View Full Version : Toyota: "Oh What a Feeling!" (We're Fucked!)



Nickdfresh
01-27-2010, 11:07 PM
Toyota faced pressure from U.S. officials before announcing recall

By Peter Whoriskey
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, January 28, 2010; A19

Toyota's decision on Tuesday to suspend the production and sale of eight models follows months of wrangling with federal safety officials, and stark disagreements with them over what was causing unintended accelerations.

As recently as November, the company claimed that the acceleration problem was caused by faulty floor mats, a diagnosis that made for a simple solution: take them out.

The issue "has been repeatedly and thoroughly investigated" by federal regulators at the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration, Bob Daly, a Toyota senior vice president assured customers at the time.

But two days later, the agency issued an unusual statement seeking to correct "inaccurate and misleading information put out by Toyota." Removing floor mats doesn't fix the underlying vehicle defect, it said, adding that it is related to the accelerator and floor pan design.

This back-and-forth, followed by new accidents and then this week's admission that indeed some Toyota models have defective accelerator pedals, amounts to a debacle for a company that became one of the largest automakers by burnishing its reputation for safety and reliability.

On Wednesday, customers deluged dealerships with questions, some rental companies announced that they were dumping all Toyotas and competitors advertised that they would seek to scoop up their rival's newly disaffected customers.

General Motors announced that its dealers will offer purchase incentives specifically to Toyota customers. It will offer $1,000 to Toyota owners toward a down payment on a GM vehicle and up to $1,000 to help to pay off current leases early.

"We decided to make this offer after receiving many e-mails and calls from our dealers, who have been approached by Toyota customers asking for help," a GM spokesman said.

Avis Budget Group said Wednesday that it is removing about 20,000 Toyotas from its rental fleets. Enterprise Holdings also said it is removing all Toyota and Pontiac Vibe vehicles, which are part of the recall, from its Alamo, Enterprise and National car rental chains.

The wave of negative publicity that is engulfing the company is at least partly caused by the carmaker's reluctance to own up to the allegations customers had made, industry observers said.

"First, they blamed the messenger -- the drivers, then they blamed the media for blowing it out of proportion, and then they weren't very forthcoming," said Michelle Krebs, an auto analyst at Edmunds.com. "They keep digging and digging and finding more problems. The question is: Have they found them all yet?"

For instance, the company had issued a safety advisory in September warning customers of the potential floor-mat problem, but it insisted in a letter to federal officials that it had not determined that the problem was actually a "safety-related defect."

Similarly, while the company said its decision to conduct another recall was voluntary, the announcement came after the safety agency informed Toyota of its intention to open an investigation, sources familiar with the matter said. The agency urged the company to "act quickly," one of the sources said, and it did so. The sources spoke on the condition of anonymity because the safety discussions were private.

"NHTSA informed Toyota of their obligations and they complied with the law," David Strickland, administrator of the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said via e-mail. "Their decision to halt sales was legally and morally the right thing to do."

On Wednesday night, Toyota announced that it would reopen the floor-mat recall to add 1.1 million vehicles, bringing the total affected to 5.3 million.

"In rare instances, there is a possibility that certain accelerator pedal mechanisms may mechanically stick in a partially depressed position," the company said. "The condition is rare and does not occur suddenly."

The agency is advising Toyota customers that "if your vehicle is acting strangely, drive it to the nearest safe location, turn-off the engine and contact a Toyota dealer for assistance."

Exactly how Toyota could have found itself at the center of a storm over quality is a matter of debate, but some analysts attributed the company's difficulties to its desire to grow so quickly. Toyota has vied with General Motors to become the world's largest.

"When you are growing that fast, it is difficult to find enough talent to manage quality and standards," said Oliver Hazimeh, an auto industry consultant at PRTM in Michigan. "Toyota outpaced itself, and that's the root of the problem they're having now."

washingtonpost.com (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/27/AR2010012704524.html)

PETE'S BROTHER
01-27-2010, 11:23 PM
yet gm and toyota share models, the incentives to buyers should be from ford or chrysler, they should follow suit.

Nickdfresh
01-27-2010, 11:42 PM
yet gm and toyota share models...

Not really, dude. Not since the fucking "Geo" Metro (Corolla) and Nova (90's snazzy Corolla)...

Nitro Express
01-28-2010, 01:27 AM
I drive a Land Rover built by British communists. It has the normal British electrical quirks but nothing Deoxit and dielectric grease won't fix. Mechanically it's been a tank and I get 20 MPG on the highway which isn't bad.

Blackflag
01-28-2010, 01:29 AM
Pontiac Vibe, defunct.

Igosplut
01-28-2010, 07:09 AM
I wondered who's fly by wire system was going to cause problems first, and it's really no surprise it's asian cars....

PETE'S BROTHER
01-28-2010, 05:14 PM
Not really, dude. Not since the fucking "Geo" Metro (Corolla) and Nova (90's snazzy Corolla)...

Toyota then announced an additional recall of 1.09 million vehicles in the United States covering five models — 2008-2010 Highlander, 2009-2010 Corolla, 2009-2010 Venza, 2009-2010 Matrix, and 2009-2010 Pontiac Vibe, a General Motors Corp. vehicle that shares parts with the Matrix.;)

Nickdfresh
01-28-2010, 07:01 PM
Toyota then announced an additional recall of 1.09 million vehicles in the United States covering five models — 2008-2010 Highlander, 2009-2010 Corolla, 2009-2010 Venza, 2009-2010 Matrix, and 2009-2010 Pontiac Vibe, a General Motors Corp. vehicle that shares parts with the Matrix.;)

I forgot about the Vibe, which is pretty much extinct now anyhoo. I think GM was ending their relationship after they almost came out with a joint model to have been produced in a GM Cali plant IIRC...

Incidentally, the recall spread to Asia and Europe with no fix in sight. I know people who sell Toyotas, and they can't move any product until it's fixed and Ford and GM are offering lease buyout incentives for Toyo owners...

PETE'S BROTHER
01-28-2010, 07:12 PM
I forgot about the Vibe, which is pretty much extinct now anyhoo. I think GM was ending their relationship after they almost came out with a joint model to have been produced in a GM Cali plant IIRC...

Incidentally, the recall spread to Asia and Europe with no fix in sight. I know people who sell Toyotas, and they can't move any product until it's fixed and Ford and GM are offering lease buyout incentives for Toyo owners...

i work in aftermarket auto parts, and our toyota dealerships are just SCREWED. not only no new sales, but no trade-ins, so the techs and usedcar guys aren't doin' squat. and the back counter parts guys have nothin' to order from me. no commision..mwa, mwa, mwa i thought for some reason that shitty cobalt was shared too, but apperently not. and i didn't ask or see earlier, but is it affecting lexus also?

Nickdfresh
01-28-2010, 07:44 PM
i work in aftermarket auto parts, and our toyota dealerships are just SCREWED. not only no new sales, but no trade-ins, so the techs and usedcar guys aren't doin' squat. and the back counter parts guys have nothin' to order from me. no commision..mwa, mwa, mwa i thought for some reason that shitty cobalt was shared too, but apperently not. and i didn't ask or see earlier, but is it affecting lexus also?

I'm not sure about Lexus...

The shitty Cobalt was the last generation Opel/Vauxhall/Holden Astra --about a decade behind the Saturn Astra, which is why both Chevy and Ford have sucked at small cars and handed the market to Honda/Toyota.

The new Chevy Cruz and (2012) Ford Focus coming out though are pretty nice little cars...

PETE'S BROTHER
01-28-2010, 08:00 PM
sucks, the older i get, the harder it is to put the makes and model names together every year. it'll drive ya batshit crazy.:hitch: takes a good month or two. could be something effecting my short term memory too.:biggrin::hee:

ELVIS
01-29-2010, 02:25 AM
A Metro is a Suzuki, Dickforbrains...

Igosplut
01-29-2010, 06:31 AM
A Metro is a Suzuki, Dickforbrains...

They haven't made Geos for quite some time, Saturn took it's place.

diamondsgirl
01-29-2010, 01:28 PM
I have one of the cars listed. I called my dealer to ask what I need to do. They gave me a 1-800 number to call. That number provided a recording stating everything we all have already heard on the news. At the end of the lengthy recording it says, if you have further questions go to toyota. com and read more information there. When I go there, it says that owners will be receiving letters in the mail telling them what Toyota is going to do to fix our vehicles.

Couldn't my dealer just tell me that??

And where is this letter? I have not seen a letter.

Anyone here get a letter?

PETE'S BROTHER
01-29-2010, 01:31 PM
my mom has an 06 corolla, not on the list, but her pedal did the same thing about a year ago. alledgedly toyota is giving their dealers a fix today.

TAKIN WHISKEY
01-31-2010, 12:07 PM
THe Toyota dealership I work at sold 20 NEW Toyotas yesterday. Not a banner day by any means, but not bad for a cold January day in the middle of a massive recall. People trust Toyota and I really don't see that changing. I have 2 Toyotas that fall into the category of the recall, but I am not worried about driving them. They will get their shit together.

Nickdfresh
01-31-2010, 04:23 PM
A Metro is a Suzuki, Dickforbrains...

Sorry, I meant Prizm, Elvis...

Now go back to modding your Neon for Gay Cruise Night on Bourbon St...

Nickdfresh
01-31-2010, 04:24 PM
THe Toyota dealership I work at sold 20 NEW Toyotas yesterday. Not a banner day by any means, but not bad for a cold January day in the middle of a massive recall. People trust Toyota and I really don't see that changing. I have 2 Toyotas that fall into the category of the recall, but I am not worried about driving them. They will get their shit together.

You don't sell anything until you deliver them...

Terry
01-31-2010, 10:45 PM
Woule have bought another Saturn, but sadly that company is going the way of the dinosaur.

Hope Toyota keeps churning out those Camrys. Next vehicle wlll either be that or a Sonata.

Nitro Express
02-01-2010, 01:41 PM
Woule have bought another Saturn, but sadly that company is going the way of the dinosaur.

Hope Toyota keeps churning out those Camrys. Next vehicle wlll either be that or a Sonata.

Everyone I know who ever owned a Saturn loved it. Too bad they are going gonzo.

TAKIN WHISKEY
02-01-2010, 06:57 PM
You don't sell anything until you deliver them...

Sold AND delivered.

Terry
02-01-2010, 07:37 PM
Everyone I know who ever owned a Saturn loved it. Too bad they are going gonzo.

It really is too bad, you know? Went and bought one totally based on word-of-mouth; everyone I knew who owned one loved it as well and said so. Dealership I picked it up from was INCREDIBLE all the way around (the Service Department was awesome).

Wanted to buy an 'American' car (even though 60% of it was assembled in China and Mexico), and Saturn was the only thing close to acceptable.

Sadly, there's a reason why the American auto industry is in the shitter; their cars just aren't as good as foreign cars.

hideyoursheep
02-02-2010, 04:59 AM
How would you like to be the engineer responsible for this cluster fuck?


:devils: :fighting0043:

hideyoursheep
02-02-2010, 05:05 AM
IMO, the Camry is an overpriced, overrated ugly vehicle.


And ELVIS, the goddamed SRT-4 is also...sounds like a fucking pissed off bumble bee when you drive down the road. Rides like a Go-cart.

Nickdfresh
02-02-2010, 05:52 PM
GM, Ford may be benefiting from Toyota woes
Toyota sales fall 16 percent; other automakers see double-digit growth
The Associated Press
updated 3:37 p.m. ET, Tues., Feb. 2, 2010

DETROIT - Toyota Motor Corp.'s car and truck sales fell 16 percent in January, a month when the automaker recalled millions of vehicles and halted sales of several models. Most other automakers reported higher sales, a sign they may be benefiting from Toyota's woes.

January is typically a weak month for U.S. auto sales, but automakers were expecting sales to improve over last January, when they dipped to a 26-year low because of the tough economy. Sales never really recovered last year, totaling 10.4 million cars and light trucks, the lowest since 1982.

General Motors Co. said its January sales rose 14 percent due to higher fleet and crossover vehicle sales. Crossovers are sport utility vehicle-like in size but sit on a car instead of a truck frame.

Crosstown rival Ford Motor Co., meanwhile, was up 25 percent while Japan's Nissan Motor Co.'s rose 16 percent.

Chrysler was down 8 percent while Honda Motor Co. sales fell 5 percent. Korean automaker Kia said its January U.S. sales were essentially flat.

George Pipas, Ford's top sales analyst, said he did not see evidence that Ford was taking buyers from Toyota Motor Corp., which halted U.S. sales of eight popular models due to faulty gas pedals in the final week of the month.

Ken Czubay, Ford's vice president of sales, said Toyota's actions may have hurt sales for the industry as a whole toward the end of last month.

Toyota said it would suspend sales of the Camry sedan, its top-selling vehicle, and seven other cars and trucks on Jan. 26 following a recall over sticky accelerator pedals. Toyota has said dealers will get the parts to fix the problem by the end of this week.

In the meantime, Toyota could lose thousands of sales in January and February. The car-buying site Edmunds.com predicted Toyota's U.S. market share would drop to 14.7 percent in January, its lowest level since March 2006. The recall affects 2.3 million cars and trucks in the U.S.

Ford and General Motors Corp., meanwhile, have been offering incentives to Toyota drivers who trade in vehicles.

© 2010 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

GM, Ford may be benefiting from Toyota woes - Autos- msnbc.com (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35200833/ns/business-autos/?GT1=43001)

TAKIN WHISKEY
02-05-2010, 12:11 AM
I know I am writing off February. I guess we'll have to see what March and April bring. One thing I can say is it couldn't happen at a better time. February is a very slow month in auto sales. Toyota will rebound. My career depends on it.

PETE'S BROTHER
02-08-2010, 05:44 PM
Report: Toyota plans to recall 300,000 Priuses (http://www.azcentral.com/business/articles/2010/02/08/20100208toyota-recall-prius.html)


are they a penny stock yet?:hee:

PETE'S BROTHER
02-08-2010, 05:45 PM
I know I am writing off February. I guess we'll have to see what March and April bring. One thing I can say is it couldn't happen at a better time. February is a very slow month in auto sales. Toyota will rebound. My career depends on it.

i'm hopin' for ya, but you're right, it isn't like toyota is goin' away.

Seshmeister
02-08-2010, 06:17 PM
I'm not sure about Lexus...

The shitty Cobalt was the last generation Opel/Vauxhall/Holden Astra --about a decade behind the Saturn Astra, which is why both Chevy and Ford have sucked at small cars and handed the market to Honda/Toyota.


Yet for all that time Ford were selling good small cars in Europe and doing well with them. I don't understand the politics/economics of it...

Terry
02-08-2010, 08:46 PM
I know I am writing off February. I guess we'll have to see what March and April bring. One thing I can say is it couldn't happen at a better time. February is a very slow month in auto sales. Toyota will rebound. My career depends on it.

Sincerely, best of luck going forward.

Terry
02-08-2010, 08:55 PM
Shortly after the closing of the Saturn line was announced, I received a form letter from the VP of Saturn Customer Relations in Detroit thanking me for being a customer and apologizing for the closure of the brand.

Probably 99 times out of 100, I would have chucked the letter away. However, I wrote back and thanked her and Saturn for the excellent service and related my own high degree of satisfaction with the brand and my local dealership (which I referred to by name), not thinking anything would come of it.

Last week, I received a letter in the mail from Saturn Detroit thanking me for my complimentary letter. Enclosed was a Target gift card for $25. In addition, my local service department e-mailed me (I have always set up my regular pm appointments with them via e-mail) and, as a direct result of dropping their name to corporate in my letter, gave me 50% off my next pm.

My pm costs are fairly minimal due to my extended service contract, and $25 isn't a ton of dough, but I will say Saturn is a class act. Again, fucking shame to see them go.

TAKIN WHISKEY
02-09-2010, 02:22 PM
Thanks Terry and Petes Brother. I appreciate it.

Nickdfresh
02-09-2010, 03:40 PM
Yet for all that time Ford were selling good small cars in Europe and doing well with them. I don't understand the politics/economics of it...

They claimed the Focus would be too expensive to redesign in North America as it was in 2005 in Europe. So we're stuck with the very dated (1999 architecture) Focus here--save for a few minor tweaks including reducing the sportiness of the suspension over the years--until 2011 when the new Focus will be identical to the one in Europe...

We are getting the Fiesta this summer though (only, we get one engine whereas Europe has access to at least three choices including a turbo diesel that gets nearly 50 mpg I think)...

Nickdfresh
02-09-2010, 03:42 PM
Shortly after the closing of the Saturn line was announced, I received a form letter from the VP of Saturn Customer Relations in Detroit thanking me for being a customer and apologizing for the closure of the brand.

Probably 99 times out of 100, I would have chucked the letter away. However, I wrote back and thanked her and Saturn for the excellent service and related my own high degree of satisfaction with the brand and my local dealership (which I referred to by name), not thinking anything would come of it.

Last week, I received a letter in the mail from Saturn Detroit thanking me for my complimentary letter. Enclosed was a Target gift card for $25. In addition, my local service department e-mailed me (I have always set up my regular pm appointments with them via e-mail) and, as a direct result of dropping their name to corporate in my letter, gave me 50% off my next pm.

My pm costs are fairly minimal due to my extended service contract, and $25 isn't a ton of dough, but I will say Saturn is a class act. Again, fucking shame to see them go.

It's a shame Saturn dies with ironically its finest lineup. I was thinking of getting a Saturn Astra, and wish I had. The three door XR is one of the sharpest small cars on the road. I think I was disappointed that again they only offered a single power plant in NA, and we didn't get the performance edition...

Nickdfresh
02-09-2010, 03:43 PM
Thanks Terry and Petes Brother. I appreciate it.

I didn't mean to piss on your parade, yo. Happy selling my brotha.'...

kwame k
02-09-2010, 03:45 PM
A turbo-diesel that gets 50 mpg?

Why aren't all the car companies coming out with ultra efficient cars that are well designed and stylish. It's what the consumer wants. Give us a vehicle to gets 50 mpg but isn't a fucking dog to drive or looks like a toy car.

Nickdfresh
02-09-2010, 03:47 PM
A turbo-diesel that gets 50 mpg?

Why aren't all the car companies coming out with ultra efficient cars that are well designed and stylish. It's what the consumer wants. Give us a vehicle to gets 50 mpg but isn't a fucking dog to drive or looks like a toy car.

It might be closer to 60 now that I think about it. Again, Ford claimed it was too expensive to build a second engine production line in the US or Mexico. And the plant in the UK can hardly keep up with Euro demand. But at some point they just sound like excuses...

kwame k
02-09-2010, 03:50 PM
Yeah, why give the consumer what the want.

TAKIN WHISKEY
02-10-2010, 11:54 AM
I didn't mean to piss on your parade, yo. Happy selling my brotha.'...

No worries Nickd, I have been a member here since 2000. I have pretty thick skin. My member status is off because of a computer crash. Anyway, I'm in finance, so I get a lot more cracks at making money than in sales.

PETE'S BROTHER
02-10-2010, 11:55 AM
Honda adds 437,000 cars to global air bag recall - Yahoo! Finance (http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Honda-adds-437000-cars-to-apf-2428558261.html?x=0)

the big 3 have to be smilin' a little more.

kwame k
02-10-2010, 12:28 PM
No worries Nickd, I have been a member here since 2000. I have pretty thick skin. My member status is off because of a computer crash. Anyway, I'm in finance, so I get a lot more cracks at making money than in sales.

So how hard is it to get someone financed now? Back in the day, damn near anyone could walk into a dealership and get financed. You read all this shit that banks won't lend, no matter what. Is that true?

hideyoursheep
02-10-2010, 08:57 PM
Honda adds 437,000 cars to global air bag recall - Yahoo! Finance (http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Honda-adds-437000-cars-to-apf-2428558261.html?x=0)

the big 3 have to be smilin' a little more.

Do any of the big 3 make a decent, reliable 4 cylinder engine?:umm:

78/84 guy
02-10-2010, 09:49 PM
FUCK TOYOTA !!! Jap shit!! You bought one you deserve it !! Buy fucking American !!! My 93 Lebaron has 188000 on it and run's great. Take care of youre shit and it takes care of you !! The Toyota repair shops were just as full of broken cars before the recalls !!

PETE'S BROTHER
02-11-2010, 12:10 AM
that lebaron has plenty of jap shit in it, unless ya got the maserati tc model:biggrin:

TAKIN WHISKEY
02-11-2010, 02:55 PM
So how hard is it to get someone financed now? Back in the day, damn near anyone could walk into a dealership and get financed. You read all this shit that banks won't lend, no matter what. Is that true?

For about a year and a half the banks have really tightened up. Yes, it is more difficult to get someone financed, but the good news is, the rates have dropped to the lowest that I have ever seen. People who have subapar or bad credit are, of course, a lot more difficult to get done but where the BIG difference has come is in the advance. Banks don't want to advance as much money so the salespeople are trying to get as much down money as possible. Used cars are where you see this the most because book values have dropped on every car. It is also very difficult to roll money into a loan. Before, when someone was trading and was in an inequitable situation we could roll a few thousand or mre into the new loan. Not anymore. Banks don't like to go over 120% of invoice or book value.

Nickdfresh
02-11-2010, 04:48 PM
Do any of the big 3 make a decent, reliable 4 cylinder engine?:umm:

Yes, in fact, find me an unreliable 4-cyl. engine...

Some are a bit crude and/or out-of-date (like the Cobalt's 2.2L Ecotech), but almost anything you buy today is reliable and will last the life of the car with any sort of decent maintenance...

In their new 2012 Focus, Ford is supposedly going to offer a 1.8 or 2.0 liter engine that generates 180 horsepower while getting over 40 miles per gallon...

kwame k
02-11-2010, 05:21 PM
For about a year and a half the banks have really tightened up. Yes, it is more difficult to get someone financed, but the good news is, the rates have dropped to the lowest that I have ever seen. People who have subapar or bad credit are, of course, a lot more difficult to get done but where the BIG difference has come is in the advance. Banks don't want to advance as much money so the salespeople are trying to get as much down money as possible. Used cars are where you see this the most because book values have dropped on every car. It is also very difficult to roll money into a loan. Before, when someone was trading and was in an inequitable situation we could roll a few thousand or mre into the new loan. Not anymore. Banks don't like to go over 120% of invoice or book value.

Still, going to a 120% Loan to Value...is fucking insane!

That's the same problem the housing market faced......You guys seem to be in the same boat, overvalued used products in an undervalued market.

Incredibly low interest rates equals people are financing products for more than they are worth because monthly payment is all a buyer's really concerned about and not total cost. Total cost is something you brag/lie about when you're BS'ing with your friends. As interest rates rise you can't borrow as much (income to debt ratio) and what you have financed you can't sell for what you owe, rinse and repeat.

Since our wages in this country continue to decrease or stagnant, so will housing and financed goods, if they don't come in line with what we can afford, the bubble begins again.

There are too many homes sitting vacant, at some point the banks will sell them for whatever they can get for them. Now will financing stay the reckless course and seeing billions of dollars to be made, be tempted to do it all over again?

It still blows my mind that people don't seem to get a very simple fact here. You make this much money, your income to debt ratio is this, you can only borrow this much, period. Not the old....well lets fudge the numbers to get you what you really want. This financing menace has to stop and no one should be able to make a major financed purchase without putting 20% + down. Sorry, champagne taste on a beer budget doesn't cut it. Drink beer and like it.

Really, for this to never happen again, average prices have got to come in line with average wages. When I started Real Estate, rates were at a historic low and look what mess we got into.

The only reason I want financing regulations is that The Banks and We The People are too stupid to save us from ourselves.

78/84 guy
02-13-2010, 12:22 AM
that lebaron has plenty of jap shit in it, unless ya got the maserati tc model:biggrin:

My 77 Monte Carlo didn't that I sold with 202000 on it to a friend for 100 large didn't. He put another couple thousand on it. Or my 79 dodge Magnum with 165000 on it still in my garage next to a 69 Charger with 150000 miles on it. Or the 87 dodge Ram that I sold with 195000 on it to a guy at work 6 years ago. He still drives it a couple times a week when it snows. The Lebaron has jap shit on it but at least it was built in America !! By the way my 2003 Dakota I bought new will roll 100000 probably the next time I drive it this weekend !! If it didn't when I drove it home from work today. One water pump & a set of back tires and brakes once. The last two are regular wear parts. Go buy a new Ford !! They got it together right now !!

PETE'S BROTHER
02-23-2010, 01:30 PM
Toyota apologizes for handling of safety issues - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100223/ap_on_bi_ge/toyota_recall)

"We are confident that no problems exist with the electric throttle control system in our vehicles," Lentz said in prepared testimony to the House Energy and Commerce's investigative subcommittee. Lentz cited "fail-safe mechanisms" in the cars were designed to shut off or reduce engine power "in the event of a system failure."

so even if the pedal is physically stickin' and the driver is mashing brakes, flippin' the e-brake, and shifting into neutral, no failsafes exist? i guess that's possible.


"They misled the American public," Stupak added, "by saying that they and other independent sources had thoroughly analyzed the electronics systems and eliminated electronics as a possible cause of sudden unintended acceleration when, in fact, the only such review was a flawed study conducted by a company retained by Toyota's lawyers."

imagine that:umm:

Sorcerer
02-23-2010, 04:11 PM
While a lot of the information I'm about to write is of course up for debate. I would like to note that I've been a mechanic for 10 years and I've worked on just about every make and model available in North America and some models that weren't offered in North America.

This being said I have found that Japanese Vehicles at least pre 2000 tend to be bar none the most reliable, longest lasting cars on North American roads. Of course all makes have good models, but not as consistently as the Japanese tend to have. I also like the older Japanese focus on inline engines which tend to almost always out last V type engines. Mainly because of how a V engine stresses the crank shaft and creates un even heat on the cylinder walls, this of course isn't something one would call an issue, it's just a characteristic of V type engine.

Since 2000 many things have changed in the automotive world and many have stayed the same, the combustion engine in a new vehicle is based around 20 year old technology, no one has really re written the book because burning gasoline isn't an efficient method of transportation to began with!

Now we also had some electric cars in early 2000, 2001, but most were crushed and few people realize, people were driving and loving there Saturn, Toyota, Honda and Ford EV's. Battery technology wasn't an issue, information as usual was suppressed.

The current Toyota issues weren't really a surprise to me as I've watched Japanese vehicles get worse and worse over the last ten year. Some GM stuff has been good other stuff terrible, and some ford stuff good other stuff terrible, and lets not even start on Daimler. Honda cheaped out on there cars in 2001 ditching there well engineered double wishbone suspension for Mac pherson struts, which is the crap that comes on pretty much every other car! Toyota has made less obvious cheap out's but they happened none the less, there cars went from having awesome fit and finished to constently broken interior parts and issues with various other things.

Now to be fair it isn't like the domestics were free from issues in the last ten years. GM Dex cool has been a huge issue on some vehicles, a cooling system that goes over it's 5 year drain interval (depending on motor) it will sludge and let massive amounts of rust form leaving you with an insane repair bill! All other red coolent does not share Dex cools issues! Also GM's issues with mass air flow sensors needed cleaning frequently, sometimes leaving people with a new truck that burns shit loads of fuel, making insane black smoke and in some cases leaving you stranded!

Fords issues can vary greatly from car to car which always leads me to believe it's a build quality issues... Ford has kept some models/motors on a long time which is good but kind of sad! Rangers are basically still the same truck they were 20 years ago with a new body....

Lets talk about GM for a minute and I will end this before it becomes a novel. They're probably one of the worst companies to work for as far as lay offs go. Weather you have a job or not depends on how much money the CEO's need to buy a new yacht every year. (this is typical in big business but seems obvious with GM) GM just got 65 billon in tax payer dollars, because there company was broke, ever seen the GM tower? (being broke was obviously a lie)

Now a quick look at some funny "Domestic Models"

2009 Chevrolet Aveo - a Koren car made with old Daewoo tooling (great job guys!)

2007-08 Torrent - First chinese made and manufactured engine in a domestic car! ( to compete in the market with all the other car companies that don't use chinese engines)

Fusions - Made in mexico (out of a job yet keep buying ford)

I realize Toyota is going right in the shitter as far as new car sales go, but I know from experience that pre 2000 Honda, Toyota, and some Nissans are the best cars in NA

PETE'S BROTHER
02-23-2010, 04:17 PM
i concur...:baaa:

Sorcerer
02-23-2010, 04:22 PM
I forgot to add this, it's something I noticed about 8 or 9 years ago when I was working on an old 1986 Toyota Land Cruiser diesel that I had purchased, 400 000 miles still running strong. I was thinking to myself what would I replace this truck with if I wanted a domestic model, hmmm, nothing...

Then I started thinking about japanese cars say, 1990 Acura Integra what would you replace it with? A 1990 4 cylinder mustang? (nah they're all gone) a Cavailer, good luck finding a 1990 that runs. Tempo? (not fun or nice at all) then I though WTF? No wonder the japanese car companies are doing so well, they're in a market all there own!

So I started researching, and protectionism started, slowly yet swiftly all good Japanese cars started being taken off the NA market. Toyota Canada, Honda Canada were born, leaving us without the amazing Jap vehicles we once knew, no more small diesels, not more turbo intercooled AWD celica's. Then of course NSX's and Skylines were virtually non exsistant here. Yet in Australia you can get a few of the good ones, and south america too, even Britain. WTF.

Then I found Ford making car for Australia that were better then any of there north american models.

To me protectionism was the only answer!

The american economy boomed when we nuked everyone and the world was in shambles, but once they caught back up they passed us and they never looked back until now!

Nickdfresh
02-23-2010, 04:33 PM
While a lot of the information I'm about to write is of course up for debate. I would like to note that I've been a mechanic for 10 years and I've worked on just about every make and model available in North America and some models that weren't offered in North America.

This being said I have found that Japanese Vehicles at least pre 2000 tend to be bar none the most reliable, longest lasting cars on North American roads. Of course all makes have good models, but not as consistently as the Japanese tend to have. I also like the older Japanese focus on inline engines which tend to almost always out last V type engines. Mainly because of how a V engine stresses the crank shaft and creates un even heat on the cylinder walls, this of course isn't something one would call an issue, it's just a characteristic of V type engine.

Since 2000 many things have changed in the automotive world and many have stayed the same, the combustion engine in a new vehicle is based around 20 year old technology, no one has really re written the book because burning gasoline isn't an efficient method of transportation to began with!

Now we also had some electric cars in early 2000, 2001, but most were crushed and few people realize, people were driving and loving there Saturn, Toyota, Honda and Ford EV's. Battery technology wasn't an issue, information as usual was suppressed.

The current Toyota issues weren't really a surprise to me as I've watched Japanese vehicles get worse and worse over the last ten year. Some GM stuff has been good other stuff terrible, and some ford stuff good other stuff terrible, and lets not even start on Daimler. Honda cheaped out on there cars in 2001 ditching there well engineered double wishbone suspension for Mac pherson struts, which is the crap that comes on pretty much every other car! Toyota has made less obvious cheap out's but they happened none the less, there cars went from having awesome fit and finished to constently broken interior parts and issues with various other things.

Now to be fair it isn't like the domestics were free from issues in the last ten years. GM Dex cool has been a huge issue on some vehicles, a cooling system that goes over it's 5 year drain interval (depending on motor) it will sludge and let massive amounts of rust form leaving you with an insane repair bill! All other red coolent does not share Dex cools issues! Also GM's issues with mass air flow sensors needed cleaning frequently, sometimes leaving people with a new truck that burns shit loads of fuel, making insane black smoke and in some cases leaving you stranded!

Fords issues can vary greatly from car to car which always leads me to believe it's a build quality issues... Ford has kept some models/motors on a long time which is good but kind of sad! Rangers are basically still the same truck they were 20 years ago with a new body....

Lets talk about GM for a minute and I will end this before it becomes a novel. They're probably one of the worst companies to work for as far as lay offs go. Weather you have a job or not depends on how much money the CEO's need to buy a new yacht every year. (this is typical in big business but seems obvious with GM) GM just got 65 billon in tax payer dollars, because there company was broke, ever seen the GM tower? (being broke was obviously a lie)

Now a quick look at some funny "Domestic Models"

2009 Chevrolet Aveo - a Koren car made with old Daewoo tooling (great job guys!)

2007-08 Torrent - First chinese made and manufactured engine in a domestic car! ( to compete in the market with all the other car companies that don't use chinese engines)

Fusions - Made in mexico (out of a job yet keep buying ford)

I realize Toyota is going right in the shitter as far as new car sales go, but I know from experience that pre 2000 Honda, Toyota, and some Nissans are the best cars in NA

I agree in general. But I think there have been cases where both Honda and Toyota dropped the ball--and were essentially given a free pass as far as warranties and "stealth recalls." For instance, the notorious Toyota "slugger engines" running from 1997-2002 (2.4L & 3.0Ls I think) were caused by improper cooling and essentially rushing the engines to market. Honda has also had their fair share of problems with transmissions and the late 1990s/early 2000s Civics and Accords are notorious for shitting the bed. If that had been say Ford or Chevy, you never would have heard the end of it. In fact, Mazdas previous association with Ford, and using a bad Ford Tranny in their otherwise excellent early-90's vintage Mazda 626's basically damaged their reputation at a point they were gaining market share on Toyota and Honda...

As for Fords and GMs being made abroad partially or wholly--yes, it's a shame. But it should be noted that GM also sells a fuck-lot of cars in China as Buicks. And Ford is a world car company with strong associations with quality and value for the price (sometimes, far more so than in this country).

I agree that the Ford Ranger is a bit silly at this point. But in their defense, they've decided to focus on redoing their small cars and are completely redoing the Ford Focus in 2012 with excellent Euro lineage in performance and components. They're also bringing the Fiesta here, redoing their big truck lineup with an excellent new diesel, and wanted to do away with the Ranger/mid-size truck segment all together. But the Ranger's saving grace is that it's cheap and reliable, and there's something to be said about a cheap second small truck that's not a borderline luxury or performance vehicle like the Tacoma is...

ELVIS
02-23-2010, 04:39 PM
In their new 2012 Focus, Ford is supposedly going to offer a 1.8 or 2.0 liter engine that generates 180 horsepower while getting over 40 miles per gallon...

Chrysler managed to do that with a 150 hp 2.0 way back in 1995 with the neon...


:elvis:

Nickdfresh
02-23-2010, 04:55 PM
Chrysler managed to do that with a 150 hp 2.0 way back in 1995 with the neon...


:elvis:

Yeah, but the newer small cars are safer with multiple airbags, ABS, ESC, etc., and are a bit heavier than they used to be. They engines must meet stricter emissions, and the EPA tests are tougher and have taken the MPG ratings down on every car...

Sorcerer
02-23-2010, 05:20 PM
The Toyota issues engines, are almost exclusivly V type engines, the majority with a weird exhaust cross over and a F'in coolent line running down the middle of the block and can only be seen as far as condition with the intake OFF! Also your dates are off toyota had issues with 3.0L since the early 90's

Honda was getting 142 HP out of a 1.8L in 1990 man...

Toyota was making 221hp from the 3S-GTE 1998cc! well before 1995... They did get caught cheating in world rally though which is why toyota performace devision is gone!

lol MPG down on every car eh, anyone realize honda had the Civic VX in 1995 that made 51mpg?

Safer? were still driving around with countless gallons of volatile fuel in a metal/plastic tank, in most cases with an electronic pump submerged in the fuel? Does anything about that sound safe? We've come a long way from the pinto, but the biggest danger is still a bad driver!

The fact the government gave GM 65 billion dollars of PEOPLE AKA TAX PAYER money, is enough to make me never own a vehicle with a GM badge. There V8's were state of the art in the 70's, but it's time to re think some things... I love mid 90's buicks it's like stepping back into the 80's or 70's, lol...

Look around when you're driving your daily driver, do you ever notice the only old cars on the road are foreign, with the exception of the odd tempo... trucks seem to be a different story though, but that's for another time!

After you work on car's all day you start realizing the ones that are easier to work on, you start noticing the miles they've accumulated, and everything about how domestics are the best built goes right out the window...

I would much rather support an american company, but for the most part there vehicles don't excite me at all!

BITEYOASS
02-23-2010, 06:02 PM
I can't wait for Toyota's stock to plummet! Because when it reaches rock bottom, than I'm buying up and will make a killing once they solved their problems and the stock rises back up.

PETE'S BROTHER
02-23-2010, 07:02 PM
shhhh, don't tell everybody

PETE'S BROTHER
02-24-2010, 12:01 AM
But when pressed by Energy and Commerce Committee Chairman Henry Waxman, D-Calif., on whether he could say with certainty that the fixes now being undertaken would completely eliminate the problems, Lentz hesitated a moment and then replied: "Not totally."

Still, he said chances of unintended accelerations would be "very, very slim" once the recalls were complete. Lentz also said Toyota was putting in new controls so brakes would override the gas pedal on almost all of its new vehicles and a majority of its vehicles already on the road. Toyota recalls won't 'totally' fix sudden surges - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/toyota_recall)



a: why hadn't this been part of fly-by-wire anyway?

b: it would have an electronic component in the override system

Sorcerer
02-24-2010, 04:14 PM
The best part about this entire thing is any cable actuated throttle, can technically stick in the open position if the return spring becomes broken or rusted or if the throttle cable itself becomes rusted. It's probably happened to A LOT of people over the years on various makes and models... It isn't a common thing you see everyday but, I have seen more than a handful...

It's been so discussed on the news and media, it's really become a nightmare for toyota (not that I think they're innocent at all)

But the fact remains many company's have had to do the math on weather a recall is the best option or weather to just pay out lawsuits as they come in. It's been done before on pick ups with exploding gas tanks and also with the good ol ford pinto... Both times the companies decided it was better for people to drive there bombs around rather than issue a recall because it was just more cost effective to the company...

I dunno in the end, I haven't seen an exciting car out of toyota in a while anyway.... Unless you look at Toyota Japan they still get some sweet rides, with real options, ohh an so does OZ and so does south america and most of europe...

ELVIS
02-24-2010, 04:21 PM
The cars in question don't have a cable actuated throttle control, mr mechanic...

BTW, there is word that sounds like there, but it means something entirely different...


:biggrin:

PETE'S BROTHER
02-24-2010, 04:52 PM
THEIR cars with cables stuck would still be able to slow with brakes applied and placed in nuetral. their company knew their cable operated cars could still be slowed.

ELVIS
02-24-2010, 05:04 PM
Hear, their and everiewear...

PETE'S BROTHER
02-24-2010, 05:25 PM
Hear, their and everiewear...

write:hee:

Sorcerer
02-24-2010, 08:09 PM
The cars in question don't have a cable actuated throttle control, mr mechanic...

BTW, there is word that sounds like there, but it means something entirely different...


:biggrin:


I didn't say they had cable actuated throttles now did I? You just assumed! Which has now made an ass out of you and me!

As for the grammer I didn't realize my posts would be marked!

Sorcerer
02-24-2010, 08:18 PM
THEIR cars with cables stuck would still be able to slow with brakes applied and placed in nuetral. their company knew their cable operated cars could still be slowed.

Brakes should in theory always be able to over power an engine, this of course may not be true on every car, especially a V8 car with undersized brakes. Other than the go ol Crown Vic there aren't too many of those types of car being built anymore... A car bouncing off the rev limiter can still be shifted into neutral!

Sorcerer
02-24-2010, 08:23 PM
Maybe Toyota will start importing some "REAL" trucks again! You know this could be a good thing! Thats a picture off the toyota Australia website. Land Cruiser 70 Series! Still loved pre 2007 bodies the best, but after working on some of these truck I must say they stand alone as one of the worlds last really tough, reliable civilian trucks. Offered in diesel and petrol models, with various engine sizes depending on your budget and location!

chefcraig
02-24-2010, 08:44 PM
The best part about this entire thing is any cable actuated throttle, can technically stick in the open position if the return spring becomes broken or rusted or if the throttle cable itself becomes rusted. It's probably happened to A LOT of people over the years on various makes and models... It isn't a common thing you see everyday but, I have seen more than a handful...

From the late seventies to the early/mid nineties I worked for the automotive aftermarket. One of the most serious auto recalls during that time concerned car maker Audi, with consumers complaining of a sudden acceleration syndrome very similar to what is described in the Toyota debacle of today. Now there was an inherent amount of falsehood going on (from phony claims by car owners to a made up story on 60 Minutes), but what things boiled down to were one of three possibilities:

1. The throttle cable hanging up as you described
2. The placement of the gas and brake pedals too close together
3. The floor mats sliding onto the gas pedal.

Only the first could realistically be blamed on the manufacturer, as the other two came down to the individual user. Nonetheless, somewhere between 1982 and (I think) 1990, Audi wound up moving the pedals further apart on customer's cars, plus installing a system requiring the brake pedal be depressed in order to shift out of neutral, much like a neutral safety switch prevents a car from starting in gear. This second step seems like overkill, as common sense would dictate that the driver do so anyway.

The thing is, it took Audi decades to get beyond this and restore it's name among the public. You really have to wonder how disastrous this will be for Toyota in the long run, as the company owns a far greater share of culpability than Audi ever did.

Sorcerer
02-24-2010, 09:39 PM
Totally agree with ya there

check this out
Toyota: A Japanese Perspective -- Seeking Alpha (http://seekingalpha.com/article/189634-toyota-a-japanese-perspective?source=yahoo)

ELVIS
02-25-2010, 09:10 AM
You obviously know nothing about Toyota or the case against the auto maker...

ELVIS
02-25-2010, 09:14 AM
I didn't say they had cable actuated throttles now did I?

Yes you did, ass...

As for the grammer I didn't realize my posts would be marked!

Grammer ??

LMAO!

Get a brain, MORAN!



:biggrin:

ELVIS
02-25-2010, 09:21 AM
Totally agree with ya there

check this out
Toyota: A Japanese Perspective -- Seeking Alpha (http://seekingalpha.com/article/189634-toyota-a-japanese-perspective?source=yahoo)

Pure rubbish!

Seshmeister
02-25-2010, 09:27 AM
The things that people find to argue about on here... :)

ELVIS
02-25-2010, 09:34 AM
Yeah well, what else is there to do here...

I'm just pointing out the fact that mr. wizard is full of bologna...


:elvis:

PETE'S BROTHER
02-25-2010, 11:53 AM
The things that people find to argue about on here... :)

i disagree with you:tongue0011:

Sorcerer
02-25-2010, 01:39 PM
Well I'm outta here guys, the fourm moderator seems to have it out for me must be because I actually have a clue.

It's funny how a moderator would post things unrelated to the thread, just to bash someone personally.

I'll go lurk on a forum where people actually make constructive educated criticism!

peace

chefcraig
02-25-2010, 01:46 PM
Well I'm outta here guys, the fourm moderator seems to have it out for me must be because I actually have a clue.

It's funny how a moderator would post things unrelated to the thread, just to bash someone personally.

I'll go lurk on a forum where people actually make constructive educated criticism!

peace

Don't take it all that hard, man. Give it some time and you'll soon enough be able to discern between who to take seriously around here and who is just yanking yer femur. ;)

ELVIS
02-25-2010, 02:00 PM
Well I'm outta here guys, the fourm moderator seems to have it out for me must be because I actually have a clue.

It's funny how a moderator would post things unrelated to the thread, just to bash someone personally.

I'll go lurk on a forum where people actually make constructive educated criticism!

peace

That was easy, later...

Little Texan
03-09-2010, 05:07 PM
More bad news for Toyota...apparently the Prius has the same problem as the other cars that have been recalled.

Link (http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-toyota-prius10-2010mar10,0,7196393.story)

Runaway Prius driver: 'I was laying on the brakes but it wasn't slowing down'

Regulators and Toyota say they'll investigate James Sikes' wild ride east of San Diego, where he reached speeds of 90 mph weaving in and out of traffic before a CHP officer came to his aid.

By Richard Marosi and Nathan Olivarez-Giles

March 9, 2010 | 1:33 p.m.


Reporting from El Cajon and Los Angeles - James Sikes bought his Toyota Prius in 2008 and 53,000 miles later the car was driving fine. But on Monday afternoon, when he accelerated to pass another vehicle on Interstate 8 east of San Diego, the car kept going.

"The gas pedal stuck open all the way," said Sikes, 61, a real estate agent from San Diego.

For 30 miles, Sikes said, he swerved in and out of traffic, narrowly missing a big rig and trying desperately to slow the vehicle down, at one point reaching down with his hand to pull back on the gas pedal. The brakes were useless.

"I was laying on the brakes," Sikes said, "but it wasn't slowing down."

The "nerve-wracking" experience, he said, ended when a CHP officer, responding to his 911 call, instructed him through a loudspeaker to apply his emergency brake in tandem with the brake pedal. Sikes pressed down, hard. "My bottom wasn't even on the seat," he said.

When the Prius, which had reached 90 mph, dropped to about 50 mph, Sikes turned off the engine and coasted to a stop. There was nothing else he could have done to stop the car, Sikes said.

"If it can happen to me, it can happen to anyone."

Sikes recounted his ordeal during a news conference held in front of a Toyota dealership Tuesday as a federal safety agency said it was sending two investigators to San Diego County to probe the incident.

"They're special crash investigators and they're going to gather the details from the car and find out what the potential causes of any problems are," said Karen Aldana, a spokeswoman for the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.

Sudden unintended acceleration has been alleged as the cause of 56 fatal accidents involving Toyotas in the U.S. going back as far as 2004. Toyota has issued about 10 million recall notices worldwide recently to address sudden acceleration, braking and other problems in its vehicles, including Sikes' Prius

Sikes on Tuesday said he received a recall notice, but when he brought his Prius in for service about three weeks ago, the dealer in El Cajon said his car wasn't part of the recall. Sikes, who said he didn't read the letter from Toyota, couldn't specify what problem the recall was addressing.

The dealer, Toyota of El Cajon, did not immediately respond to requests for comment.

Toyota, the world's largest automaker, said Monday it would send a field technical specialist to investigate what happened. By Tuesday morning, Sikes said he had yet to hear from the manufacturer, and that his calls to Toyota's toll-free number turned up a busy signal.

At the Toyota dealer in El Cajon where he went to pick up a loaner car, Sikes said he was still a little shaken by the incident. A longtime owner of Toyotas, he said the Prius had just received a maintenance check and everything appeared to be fine.

When the accelerator stuck, he said he weighed all his options. He feared turning the car off in the middle of traffic, expecting the steering wheel to lock. If he shifted into neutral, he worried that it would slip into reverse. The floor mat, he said, wasn't interfering with the gas pedal.

"It was accelerating out of control. Period," said Sikes.

Sikes said he had never had a problem with Toyota vehicles. But when his friend showed up this morning to take him to the dealer in a Prius, he hesitated. "It just felt funny," he said. "I love Toyotas. I will not drive a Prius again."

twonabomber
03-10-2010, 12:25 AM
so let it go into reverse. not like it's gonna all of a sudden go 90 backwards.

PETE'S BROTHER
10-29-2010, 03:57 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20101029/ts_nm/us_toyota_litigation

nice:(

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) – Toyota secretly bought back from U.S. consumers vehicles it found with speed-control defects as part of a strategy to hide unintended-acceleration problems from safety regulators and the public, a revised lawsuit claims.
The repurchase transactions included strict confidentiality agreements barring consumers from disclosing the problem to anyone and from suing the automaker, according to the amended class-action complaint.
The new complaint also cites internal company records documenting instances in which Toyota Motor Corp technicians or service managers replicated speed-control problems like those reported by customers.
And it says the company's confirmation of at least one clear-cut case of sudden unintended acceleration was concealed rather than reported to federal auto safety regulators.
The enlarged lawsuit, now more than 700 pages long plus hundreds of pages of attached exhibits, was filed on Wednesday in U.S. District Court in Santa Ana, California, south of Los Angeles.
It builds on a case consolidated over the summer from dozens of consumers and businesses claiming economic losses, including diminished vehicle resale values, stemming from complaints of Toyota cars and trucks racing out of control.
The thrust of the lawsuit is the contention that Toyota ignored evidence of speed-control problems in its vehicles for most of the past decade and failed to install a brake override system it knew could have prevented accidents.

Nitro Express
10-29-2010, 07:11 PM
I like the looks of those new Ford Mustangs. Cars all look the same and the Mustang has nice looks. I don't know if it's a good car but Ford didn't take bailout money and they are a US company. I won't even bother to look at a GM or Chrysler product anymore. For practical transportation I always liked Volkswagens. My wife drives the Phaeton and it's a great car.

PETE'S BROTHER
10-29-2010, 07:19 PM
i like the car bodies that nationwide is using now, the mustang actually kinda looks like a mustang:baaa:

PETE'S BROTHER
03-03-2011, 03:23 PM
:biggrin:

http://autos.yahoo.com/articles/autos_content_landing_pages/1752/spider-webs-prompt-mazda-recall-of-50000-cars/

Mazda is recalling about 52,000 Mazda6 sedans, because yellow sac spiders like to build their nests in part of the fuel system.

MORE AT CNNMONEY.COM

» Photos: Top 12 greenest cars in America
» GM to pay factory workers record bonuses
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"A certain type of spider may weave a web in the evaporative canister vent line and this may cause a restriction of the line," Mazda said in a letter to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.


Yellow sac spider (Credit: Eran Finkle)
The evaporative canister vent line runs from a charcoal-filled canister that cleans air coming out of the gas tank. Blockage of the line can prevent air from getting into the gas tank as the gasoline is used, resulting in negative air pressure inside the tank. That can lead to a crack in the gas tank and the possibility of a fire.

There have been 20 reported cases of spider infestation in the Mazda6 -- all have been in cars with 4-cylinder engines, none with V6's. No actual fires are known to have been caused by the spiders, according to Mazda's letter.

Dealers will inspect and, if necessary, repair the fuel system in the cars. A spring will also be installed to prevent spider intrusion, according to the letter.

Letters will be mailed to owners of affected vehicles beginning at the end of this month.

It's unclear why this particular spider -- the yellow sac spider -- seems to prefer the Mazda6, company spokesman Jeremy Barnes said. All modern cars have the same type of equipment.

"Maybe they just like cars that go 'Zoom-Zoom," he said. "We honestly don't know."

Terry
03-03-2011, 09:09 PM
Meh.

My next car will still probably be a Camry.

TAKIN WHISKEY
03-04-2011, 11:37 AM
I have had eight Toyotas in the last eleven years and never had a single problem with any of them. Of course, I lease them for 36 thousand miles, then get another one, so I'm driving them new all the time, but never a single problem. Currently, I have a 2011 Camry SE, my wife has a Camry XLE and my youngest daughter drives a Corolla S. If I didn't work for a Toyota dealership and drive Toyotas, I would probably work at a Honda dealership and drive Hondas.

Hardrock69
03-04-2011, 08:35 PM
Toyotas are dependable like a motherfucker.

sadaist
03-04-2011, 08:45 PM
Toyotas are dependable like a motherfucker.

Yeah. I still love the late 80's / early 90's pickup models. SR-5 I think they are. They are like the older Honda bikes both 3-wheelers & 2-wheels. Oil & gas is all you need for that fucker to last forever.

TAKIN WHISKEY
03-04-2011, 08:57 PM
Yeah. I still love the late 80's / early 90's pickup models. SR-5 I think they are. They are like the older Honda bikes both 3-wheelers & 2-wheels. Oil & gas is all you need for that fucker to last forever.

Yeah, the engines on those trucks were awesome but the bodies would rust out before you could kill the engine. Toyota, Honda and Datsun/Nissan all had rust problems in the eighties and early nineties.

Terry
03-04-2011, 09:13 PM
One of the most reliable cars I ever had was a 1990 Toyota Turcel Japanese import.

That little rice-burner always started up, lasted over 200,000 miles before I encountered any major problems with it and got awesome gas mileage.

The dealer back then told me "just remember: with these imports, make SURE you get the oil changed...don't wait until you've passed 3,000 miles...get it changed every 2,500 to 2,750 miles or so...I don't care if you get it changed at the dealership or at a Jiffy Lube, just make SURE you get it done."

He never elaborated why, and I didn't ask. I just did it.

I miss that little blue Turcel fucker!

PETE'S BROTHER
03-05-2011, 09:52 AM
those 80s toyota truck bedsides were rusting on the showroom floor in wisconsin. i had an 82 4x4 that was bullet proof, other than the rusty bed.

ELVIS
03-05-2011, 10:59 AM
Yeah, why give the consumer what the want.

I got what I want...

Dodge Challenger !!

ELVIS
03-05-2011, 11:01 AM
those 80s toyota truck bedsides were rusting on the showroom floor in wisconsin. i had an 82 4x4 that was bullet proof, other than the rusty bed.

The trucks still rot away...

Don't be fooled by Toyota garbage...




:biggrin:

PETE'S BROTHER
03-05-2011, 12:15 PM
nice :baaa:

sadaist
03-05-2011, 01:46 PM
I would still take a good ol American made K 5 Blazer over any of them. The way the tops came off those things made them the ultimate party desert/river vehicle. And with the simple front end suspensions you could lift them super easy & put the big meaty tires on them.

http://www.4x4offroads.com/image-files/1985-chevrolet-k5-blazer-lastscan8.jpg

FORD
03-05-2011, 02:09 PM
Ironically enough, the best endorsement for Toyota is the one they probably wouldn't want to claim....

Every time you see stock video footage of terraists driving around the mountains of Afghanistan, odds are its going to be in a beat up old Toyota.

They should make it a marketing slogan really...... "Toyota: Tough Enough for the Taliban"

sadaist
03-05-2011, 03:27 PM
Ironically enough, the best endorsement for Toyota is the one they probably wouldn't want to claim....

Every time you see stock video footage of terraists driving around the mountains of Afghanistan, odds are its going to be in a beat up old Toyota.

They should make it a marketing slogan really...... "Toyota: Tough Enough for the Taliban"


HAHA!

Totally man. Stands up to scorching desert heat, sand storms, 25 insurgents in the bed launching shoulder fired missiles.....that's one tough fucking truck!

FORD
03-05-2011, 04:44 PM
http://pibillwarner.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/toyota_taliban.jpg?w=453&h=371
ALLAH, WHAT A FEELING!! TOYOTA

Nitro Express
03-05-2011, 06:04 PM
Old Toyotas were tanks. It used to be Land Rovers and now it's Toyotas in the third world.

sadaist
03-05-2011, 06:10 PM
http://pibillwarner.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/toyota_taliban.jpg?w=453&h=371
ALLAH, WHAT A FEELING!! TOYOTA



Minus the weapons of course, that's what me & my friends used to look like on a Saturday trip to the beach in one friends truck. Back in the days it was legal to ride in the bed. Everyone pitch in 0.50 cents for gas & we're off! Best seat was raised up on the wheel well or snug against the cab where you would be out of the wind & could light your smokes. I swear we would have 10 of us crammed in the bed & another 3 in the cab.

Looking back, scary as shit going 65 down the freeway like that. Totally worth it. Although not as scary as being high on opium & everyone having a loaded weapon and a grudge.

Nitro Express
03-05-2011, 06:11 PM
I have a couple old Land Rovers. Once you dump the Lucas electronics and put Weber carbs on them, they are reliable. I like the suspension and drive train better than Toyota or Jeep.

Little Texan
03-05-2011, 06:41 PM
Ironically enough, the best endorsement for Toyota is the one they probably wouldn't want to claim....

Every time you see stock video footage of terraists driving around the mountains of Afghanistan, odds are its going to be in a beat up old Toyota.

They should make it a marketing slogan really...... "Toyota: Tough Enough for the Taliban"

Toyota's were also used extensively in the late 80's middle eastern conflict between Libya and Chad, better known as the "Toyota War". I just happened across this the other day while reading about Col. Gaddafi on wikipedia.

Toyota War (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_War)

Nitro Express
03-05-2011, 06:53 PM
Toyota war. The only way to kill a person with a Toyota is to run them over with one or have the accelerator malfunction so they run into something hard enough where the air bag is no good. :biggrin:

I would think old communist era weaponry did more killing than something made in Japan for civilian use.

Nickdfresh
03-07-2011, 11:03 AM
Meh.

My next car will still probably be a Camry.

I do think that Toyotas are basically good cars, but then it's really hard to find a "bad car." Even the worst cars out there, for ex. like maybe the soon-to-be-gone Chrysler Sebring (phased out in favor of the much more promising Chrysler 200), are still light years ahead of what cars were 20 or 30 years ago in regards to reliability. Every manufacturer has recalls, but I have two main complaints about Toyotas. One is that they were once deified by the likes of Consumer Reports with auto-recommendations even when it became clear that Toyota was beginning to suffer the same ailments as domestic (US) sedans in regards to bland interiors and marginal performance for the money, with far less incentives given out to consumers to buy them smacking of arrogance and over-reliance on reputation, and:

http://www.ridelust.com/wp-content/uploads/633492526686107652-toyota-camry.jpg

...Their reputation as a reliable, but boring, appliance car-maker who only offer interesting stuff and performance to those willing to pony up big bucks for a Lexus...

Nickdfresh
03-07-2011, 11:06 AM
Toyotas are dependable like a motherfucker.

For the most part, I agree. But they still have their problems: like Tacoma pickups that rust prematurely, "sludger engines" in some of their late 90s and early 2000s vintage cars, and poorly thought out ergonomics like fucking floormats that don't fit and can cause accidents, etc.

Nitro Express
03-07-2011, 11:24 AM
I think the Chevy Suburban I had was made by Mexicans that drank too much tequila. The engine leaked oil. I had a big go around with the dealer and they finally put a new engine in it. Then at 6,000 mile the front transaxle had catastrophic failure. I have had transmission and transaxle problems on other GM products and I service the transmission and differentials on schedule.

I traded the hunk of junk in for a Wisconsin made Suburban and it was fine. The only thing that broke on that one was the speedometer. I just got rid of it when it hit 100,000. That's about when the GM transmission or front transaxle goes kaput.

chefcraig
03-07-2011, 11:26 AM
Toyota's were also used extensively in the late 80's middle eastern conflict between Libya and Chad, better known as the "Toyota War". I just happened across this the other day while reading about Col. Gaddafi on wikipedia.


Yeah, I had a 1977 Sport Coupe that I'm pretty certain is still rolling around (minus about 90% of it's body) someplace in a South American village at this very moment.

Nitro Express
03-07-2011, 11:28 AM
The most reliable car I ever had was a 1987 BMW 328. That was a great car. I hear the new ones are junk. I have heard of them even getting water in the ignition components from going through a car wash and stop running because of it.

hideyoursheep
03-07-2011, 11:32 AM
I think the Chevy Suburban I had was made by Mexicans that drank too much tequila..Hemosillo, Mexico..former home of the Hummer.

Nitro Express
03-07-2011, 11:36 AM
Hemosillo, Mexico..former home of the Hummer.

It was the home of shit. When I saw my car was made in Mexico, I said some hail Marry's and prayed to God and that didn't even work.:biggrin:

Nitro Express
03-07-2011, 11:37 AM
Raul probably forgot to put a gasket in when he assembled the engine and Jose didn't quite get that snap ring in right in the transaxle. It just take one minor screwup to send you to Fucksville.

ELVIS
03-07-2011, 11:41 AM
like maybe the soon-to-be-gone Chrysler Sebring (phased out in favor of the much more promising Chrysler 200), are still light years ahead of what cars were 20 or 30 years ago in regards to reliability.

You don't know shit...

The 200 IS a Seabring with a new interior, new lights and the new pentastar V6...

It is a nice car, much nicer than a camry any day, but it's due to be totally scrapped and replaced mid to late 2012...

As far as Toyota, they are having GM like quality problems and they are bland bland bland, inside and out...

Not to mention they are somewhat difficult to work on and parts are very expensive...

Never had one and never will...


:elvis:

hideyoursheep
03-07-2011, 11:42 AM
I got what I want...

Dodge Challenger !!

I looked hard at the SRT4 last year, based on your praises of the thing...I didn't like the ride, but the fact that I wanted to save money on gas was the main reason I stayed away..it takes premium only. Fuck that. And the base model Neon? Oh, no...I want to DRIVE it, not constantly FIX it!

Nitro Express
03-07-2011, 11:43 AM
Japanese quality probably went downhill when they started building their cars in Gooberscrew, Alabama. I remember reading a few years ago GM was closing a plant down in Ontario and some Japanese car manufacture hired all of them and bought the plant and moved operations to Canada from Alabama. The reason was too many of the line workers were illiterate. They even printed comic book instructions and the workers still screwed up.

Nitro Express
03-07-2011, 11:45 AM
I looked hard at the SRT4 last year, based on your praises of the thing...I didn't like the ride, but the fact that I wanted to save money on gas was the main reason I stayed away..it takes premium only. Fuck that. And the base model Neon? Oh, no...I want to DRIVE it, not constantly FIX it!

I can't believe what they want for a new economy car these days. It's robbery. The prices are too damn high for what they are.

hideyoursheep
03-07-2011, 11:47 AM
You don't know shit...

The 200 IS a Seabring with a new interior, new lights and the new pentastar V6...
:elvis:

Never buy 1st generation ANYTHING.

The 300m wasn't a bad looking car, if only the 300c drive train was thrown in it...because the 300c looks like a cross between a Bentley and a Dodge truck. It's hideous IMO.

Nitro Express
03-07-2011, 11:48 AM
My neighbor has a Lexus and I had that car. It doesn't seem like luxury to me. The leather and trim seems cheap and the back seat is uncomfortable as hell. You feel like you are riding in an economy car and the ride isn't that great. I have no idea why people buy those things, they are horrible!

hideyoursheep
03-07-2011, 11:51 AM
Japanese quality probably went downhill when they started building their cars in Gooberscrew, Alabama. .

I'm not sure ther is such a thing as "Japanese quality" anymore...everything has cross-pollinated so much.

Nitro Express
03-07-2011, 11:52 AM
Never buy 1st generation ANYTHING.

The 300m wasn't a bad looking car, if only the 300c drive train was thrown in it...because the 300c looks like a cross between a Bentley and a Dodge truck. It's hideous IMO.

I always thought Dodge trucks looked gay. They always had that big semi tractor grill look with a dumb attempt to be aerodynamic with a plastic toy look.

Nitro Express
03-07-2011, 11:56 AM
I'm not sure ther is such a thing as "Japanese quality" anymore...everything has cross-pollinated so much.

True. Most Japanese stuff is not made in Japan anymore. Most German stuff is still made in Germany. If you look at exports, tiny Germany is only behind China and not by much. I find I'm buying German appliances now because the US brands have gone to shit and I'm tired of the stuff breaking all the time. The thing is Meile isn't any more expensive than the Chinese and Mexican made shit with GE or Maytag on it. A sad story but it's true.

I'm looking for a good deal and I don't buy junk. Whoever makes it get's my business. If we continue to buy disposable crap that breaks, then that's all they will sell eventually.

Nitro Express
03-07-2011, 12:03 PM
With Chinese stuff you have to buy stuff they make for themselves. Not what they make for export. I needed a set of calipers and had a friend in Shanghai go into a tool store and buy what I wanted and he sent them to me. Swiss quality. They are beautifully made but you aren't going to see those at Harbor Freight. Where the Japanese and Chinese differ is the Japanese want everything off the line to be to a certain standard. The Chinese play favorites. The good stuff goes to the special customer and the shit goes to everyone else. It's all about connections in China and who you know. Sure it's that way everywhere but more so in China. There is always that back room full of magic if you are invited in. LOL!

Nitro Express
03-07-2011, 12:17 PM
With the Chinese they don't forget for good or bad. Not the kind of people you want to screw over. If you do them a favor they remember that as well. I helped an owner of the Chinese restaurant get a work visa for a cook he wanted to bring over from Hong Kong. We were in Hong Kong and went to the US Embassy and not only were they no help, they were fucking rude. I got pissed and started calling my local representatives back home. One of our US Senators offices got in touch with me and it so happened that he dealt with the State Department on some committees he sat on and got to the right person and got the problem solved. Anyways the asshole in the US embassy in Hong Kong wanted to know who I was and who I knew. I just told the fuck he worked for me because I was a US taxpayer and the lesson he needed to learn was don't fuck with taxpayers.

So I never had to pay for a meal at that restaurant ever again and it never was what was on the menu. It was the special stuff in the kitchen the average customer didn't get. It also opened up huge contacts in Hong Kong and there seemed to always be a cousin who sold this and that. So favors go a long way in China and it's all about connections. Friends and family get the best stuff. That is why their manufacturing is real random. You aren't going to get quality across the board in China. The place just doesn't operate that way so it's going to be interesting.

Nitro Express
03-07-2011, 12:24 PM
So with the up and coming Chinese auto industry, I guess there will be that special line of cars available if you are a good friend of cousin number 5. There is a pecking order with cousins I learned as well. It's a big insult to go to cousin number 5 before you see cousin number 2. So to get that suit from cousin number 5, you better visit cousins 1-4 because they will find out about it and if you don't do that they will be insulted. So if you do a lot of business in China be prepared to have lots of lunches and dinners out trying to get that one thing accomplished.

ELVIS
03-07-2011, 12:58 PM
I looked hard at the SRT4 last year, based on your praises of the thing...I didn't like the ride, but the fact that I wanted to save money on gas was the main reason I stayed away..it takes premium only. Fuck that. And the base model Neon? Oh, no...I want to DRIVE it, not constantly FIX it!

I still have my ACR Neon...

The biggest problem with neons and some Chrysler products from the same era are the relays...

Many neons died due to overheating because a bad relay kept the cooling fans off...

I have good quality relays in mine and I apply dielectric grease to ALL electrical connections and I have never had a problem...

I'm on my 4th neon and I still like 'em...


:elvis:

PETE'S BROTHER
03-07-2011, 01:10 PM
I still have my ACR Neon...

The biggest problem with neons and some Chrysler products from the same era are the relays...

Many neons died due to overheating because a bad relay kept the cooling fans off...

I have good quality relays in mine and I apply dielectric grease to ALL electrical connections and I have never had a problem...

I'm on my 4th neon and I still like 'em...


:elvis:

bad relays have burned out shitloads of gm truck fuel pumps for the last ten years...

ELVIS
03-07-2011, 01:47 PM
I also have a '99 Suburban...

A relay can't burn out a fuel pump...

GM has several TSB's on this subject...

What burns first is the fuel pump wiring harness that plugs in over the rear axle - usually due to a bad ground...

I converted mine from SFI to MFI, changed the fuel tank, fuel pump, sending unit, wiring harness, fuel filter and pressure regulator...

I pull a travel trailer with mine and I don't like fixing it while on vacation...

Many people who replace their pump experience a premature pump failure because that's all they changed...

I'm sure there are a few GM truck owners here...

You can thank me later...;)

Nitro Express
03-07-2011, 02:14 PM
bad relays have burned out shitloads of gm truck fuel pumps for the last ten years...

They always love to put the fuel pump inside a big ass tank and it usually fails with a full tank of gas. I just scrapped the stock in tank pump and put a Mallory inline pump instead. I left the tank stock and just put a fuel pickup tube and filter on where the pump motor was and never had any problems. I also changed the regulator for one that has a PSI gauge on it so if I have problems I can see what I have at the fuel rail. Overkill but why not.

What's nice about GM trucks is there are enough good after market parts to remedy the factory fuck ups.

Nitro Express
03-07-2011, 02:18 PM
I like the old Bosch relays because you could pop the metal top off and clean the contacts. I never had one actually go bad but the contacts corrode or get dirty. I did that fix on a road trip. With the new sealed plastic relays you can't do that.

I hear you on the dielectric grease. If you are driving a fuel injected vehicle in the dirt, water, and grime you want to grease all your connectors. Chances are it's an electrical connection fault over anything else.

Nitro Express
03-07-2011, 02:24 PM
I'm pretty amazed at how reliable fuel injection is in very harsh conditions. I just grease the connections and put the computer and relays in a water tight lunch box. I've driven through water so deep its coming in the cab but the engine keeps running.

Nickdfresh
03-09-2011, 12:00 AM
You don't know shit...

The 200 IS a Seabring with a new interior, new lights and the new pentastar V6...

Which would make it almost a completely different car, eh fuckwit?

It's a major redesign, dummy! You forgot the major suspension upgrades that allow the car to perform better than a cinder-block on a skateboard, unlike the notoriously embarrassing Seabrick.


It is a nice car, much nicer than a camry any day, but it's due to be totally scrapped and replaced mid to late 2012...

As far as Toyota, they are having GM like quality problems and they are bland bland bland, inside and out...

Not to mention they are somewhat difficult to work on and parts are very expensive...

Never had one and never will...


:elvis:

If I 'don't know shit," then you must know less as you've pretty much agreed with and regurgitated everything I've said....

Nickdfresh
03-09-2011, 12:03 AM
True. Most Japanese stuff is not made in Japan anymore. Most German stuff is still made in Germany. If you look at exports, tiny Germany is only behind China and not by much. I find I'm buying German appliances now because the US brands have gone to shit and I'm tired of the stuff breaking all the time. The thing is Meile isn't any more expensive than the Chinese and Mexican made shit with GE or Maytag on it. A sad story but it's true.

I'm looking for a good deal and I don't buy junk. Whoever makes it get's my business. If we continue to buy disposable crap that breaks, then that's all they will sell eventually.

Dude, you drive a German car largely constructed in Mexico. Who the fuck are YOU lecturing?

BTW, German cars are amongst the worst when it comes to reliability and cost-of-ownership...